Teicher: More concerns for Chiefs at tackle

[tk13]

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/15625073.htm

More worries at tackle
Turley’s sore back is not good news for a Chiefs team that is already hurting at that important position.

By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

As shaky as their pass blocking has been, the last thing the Chiefs wanted to see was left tackle Kyle Turley riding a stationary bike on the edge of the practice field instead of working with his teammates.

But that’s exactly what Turley was doing Wednesday. He also was a spectator at Monday’s practice. The Chiefs did not practice Tuesday, normally the players’ day off.

The Chiefs listed Turley on the NFL injury report as likely to play in Sunday’s game against San Francisco at Arrowhead Stadium.

They listed right tackle Kevin Sampson the same way early in the week of the season opener against Cincinnati, and Sampson didn’t play until the next week against Denver.

If Turley’s problem was anything but soreness in his back, his absence might not be so troubling to the Chiefs. But he returned to football only this season after missing the last two because of back troubles, so there’s no way to misinterpret this as good news.

Turley said the soreness was beyond anything he’s experienced since he signed with the Chiefs in the spring.

“I’m concerned,” Turley said. “A back injury is not something to fool around with. It’s definitely cause for concern.

“We’ll see. I’m supposed to meet with more doctors, and we’ll find out what’s happening. I’m just trying to wait it out.”

Coach Herm Edwards was slightly more upbeat.

“He’s gone through a lot,” Edwards said. “He hasn’t missed a lot of days since he got here. He went through all of training camp for the most part. You can anticipate there’s going to be some stiffness at times with a guy like that after all he’s gone through.”

Jordan Black, who struggled at times as the left tackle last season — and again at right tackle in Sampson’s place against Cincinnati — would be the likely starter if Turley can’t play.

Black would face two of San Francisco’s best pass rushers in end Marques Douglas and outside linebacker Manny Lawson, a rookie who had two sacks in a recent game against St. Louis.

Black has been frustrated that he’s been moved from position to position since the start of training camp. He’s played every line position except center.

This week, though, he’s been nothing but a left tackle.

“One week to prepare at one position is all I can ask for,” he said. “It’s terrific.”

Offensive-line changes were once rare for the Chiefs, who not long ago started the same five players at the same five positions for 32 straight games. If Turley doesn’t play against the 49ers, they would use their third different line in three games.

“It’s just something we’re getting used to by now,” guard Brian Waters said.

Waters, as the left guard, would be the lineman most affected by Turley’s loss. But Waters started six games last year next to Black, who was filling in for the injured Willie Roaf.

“I’m really vocal as far as making calls,” Waters said. “I try to make things easy for those guys by being that way. We’ll be on the same page. It’s not an issue for me.”

The loss of Turley would be a huge blow to an offensive line still trying to find itself after the retirements of Roaf and John Welbourn, last year’s starters.

Against Cincinnati, the Chiefs gave up seven sacks and lost quarterback Trent Green because of a concussion. They then used a shorter, quicker passing game with Green’s replacement, Damon Huard, against the Broncos.

The Chiefs were cautiously hopeful they could provide Huard with more time against the 49ers and get more big passes. If Turley doesn’t play, they might have to scrap those plans.

The Chiefs’ only option to Black is Will Svitek, a college defensive lineman they drafted last year in the sixth round. They moved him to offensive line and were encouraged by his play this year in NFL Europe.

They still believe Svitek will become a competent offensive tackle and an eventual starter, but that day has apparently not come yet.

“He’s got a lot of talent,” Edwards said. “He doesn’t have the experience of playing there as much as Jordan because he hasn’t lined up there enough. He was a defensive lineman when he got here. Experience is what he’s lacking.

“It’s kind of unfair to him because we’ve had him on the left and on the right, and that’s (difficult). He’s had to learn both of those positions. That’s his job, to be prepared to play either side.”

[BWillie]

Put a fork in him. How many positions can John Welbourne play?

[el borracho]

Not unexpected but I had hoped it would be later in the season. No way does Turley come back next year- he (and we) will be lucky if he finishes this season.

[Anyong Bluth]

Turley gone = screwed.

He's not great, but he's way better than any other option we have. If he stayed healthy and Welborne came back, I thought things would be atleast managable.


Mostly, I feel bad for Shields for biting the bullet on another year of pounding and nothing to show for.

[bringbackmarty]

yeah if turley is gone it will be an act of god if we win more than our two games against choadland. I'm sorry, but you need offensive tackles to win games. look at oakland.

[ChiefFan31]

Arrgggg :banghead:

If we lose Turley, especially if its before we get a chance to get Welbourne back, we are in some trouble... /understatement

[the Talking Can]

turley's done...time for college basketball

[jspchief]

we're fooked

[PRIEST]

Carl knew about Roaf & Welbourne,did nothing brought in a broke down Turley, knew we had a older QB (one good hit away) the season is toast.So there you have the Chiefs season in a nut shell! Don't get me wrong, I love the Chiefs always will,damn this GM time has come & gone
KC needs fresh blood in the GM spot & the FO.Till then the CHIEFS will be the CHIEFS.Not goood enough to win a SB not good enough to win the west ,just good enough to draft in the middle of the pack :huh:


And belive me I want them to win :#

[Kylo Ren]

Arrgggg :banghead:

If we lose Turley, especially if its before we get a chance to get Welbourne back, we are in some trouble... /understatement Is Wellbourne coming back?

[Fish]

Jordan Black, who struggled at times as the left tackle last season — and again at right tackle in Sampson’s place against Cincinnati — would be the likely starter if Turley can’t play.

Struggled at times? Like saying Atilla the Hun occasionally killed....

[wolfpack0735]

let Svitek start at tackle. Black $ucks, can`t learn or gewt experenece by sitting the bench. i cant see him worst than Black.

[Bowser]

let Svitek start at tackle. Black $ucks, can`t learn or gewt experenece by sitting the bench. i cant see him worst than Black.

No shit. Black is a GUARD. If anything, put Shields at left tackle, and Black at right guard.

Unbelievable.

[Frosty]

They still believe Svitek will become a competent offensive tackle and an eventual starter, but that day has apparently not come yet.

“He’s got a lot of talent,” Edwards said. “He doesn’t have the experience of playing there as much as Jordan because he hasn’t lined up there enough. He was a defensive lineman when he got here. Experience is what he’s lacking.

And how might he get some experience, Herm?

This might sound cruel, but it's better that Svitek is in there getting experience while Huard's playing than Croyle or Green. Besides, could he really be worse than Black?

[ck_IN]

So much for the idea of using the TE as a reciever. We might as well give Gonzo the day off and just start Dunn because Black will need all the help he can get.

[Rain Man]

Willlllllliiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeee!

http://images.usatoday.com/life/_photos/2005/10/04/inside-dvd-streetcar2.jpg

[RealSNR]

Carl knew about Roaf & Welbourne,did nothing brought in a broke down Turley, knew we had a older QB (one good hit away) the season is toast.So there you have the Chiefs season in a nut shell! Don't get me wrong, I love the Chiefs always will,damn this GM time has come & gone
KC needs fresh blood in the GM spot & the FO.Till then the CHIEFS will be the CHIEFS.Not goood enough to win a SB not good enough to win the west ,just good enough to draft in the middle of the pack :huh:


And belive me I want them to win :#Uhh... actually, even if Trent were a super-talented 23-year old rookie back there, a head trauma hit like that would still knock him out. It's not because he was old.

It would've been nice to pick up some Olinemen in the draft, sure, but these retirements happened after April.

Who could we possibly pick up besides that? The only linemen out there in free agency were Chris Bober-type players looking for a team

[Hound333]

So long as we don't screw up our top 5 pick we might be back in the next couple of years.

[Mr. Laz]

Uhh... actually, even if Trent were a super-talented 23-year old rookie back there, a head trauma hit like that would still knock him out. It's not because he was old.looking
i disagree ..... the older you are the more easily you get hurt ...... and the longer it takes to recover.

[CoMoChief]

You suck Roaf.

[Halfcan]

Look for San Fran to have 12 more sacks.

[KC-TBB]

Anyone know how to make a hangman's noose?

[KC-TBB]

Or just hook me up with T.O.'s Doctor?

[KC-TBB]

Willie, Willie....ohhhhh

[Psyko Tek]

So much for the idea of using the TE as a reciever. We might as well give Gonzo the day off and just start Dunn because Black will need all the help he can get.


put gonzo in the slot to give them something to worry about, and play dunn as "tackle end"

[PRIEST]

Uhh... actually, even if Trent were a super-talented 23-year old rookie back there, a head trauma hit like that would still knock him out. It's not because he was old.

It would've been nice to pick up some Olinemen in the draft, sure, but these retirements happened after April.

Who could we possibly pick up besides that? The only linemen out there in free agency were Chris Bober-type players looking for a team

I agree.I quess it was just a rant with no logic :doh!: Uh carl still needs to go :)

[KC-TBB]

:huh: H:\My Pictures\gif\54c19023.gif

[Pitt Gorilla]

Carl knew about Roaf & Welbourne,did nothing brought in a broke down Turley, knew we had a older QB (one good hit away) the season is toast.So there you have the Chiefs season in a nut shell! Don't get me wrong, I love the Chiefs always will,damn this GM time has come & gone
KC needs fresh blood in the GM spot & the FO.Till then the CHIEFS will be the CHIEFS.Not goood enough to win a SB not good enough to win the west ,just good enough to draft in the middle of the pack :huh:


And belive me I want them to win :#Drafting middle to late is a good thing.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

If we go 0-3, I say rest Green the season, and put Croyle in.

[bringbackmarty]

fukkit put bober in @ left tackle. he hasn't tried yet.

[FAX]

If we go 0-3, I say rest Green the season, and put Croyle in.

I agree with the Green part, Mr. Vanilla Thunder. But, with all respect, I think that, no matter what happens, Croyle needs to watch for a year.

I'm afraid that putting him in behind this line will do nothing for his confidence. Plus, he needs a year to observe and benefit from NFL quality PT. I'd like to see him put on 10 to 15 pounds or so and increase his strength.

FAX

[FringeNC]

We were 3-3 with Jordan Black at left tackle last year. If we lose to the 49ers at home, this coaching staff is a joke.

I'd rather Svitek play. With Jordan Black in there for the rest of the season, we won't beat good teams. Why not give Svitek some playing time against a weak team at home?

At this point to count on Turley for the remainder of the season seems like wishful thinking. Put Svitek in there! Black is not the answer.

[Inspector]

I agree with the Green part, Mr. Vanilla Thunder. But, with all respect, I think that, no matter what happens, Croyle needs to watch for a year.

I'm afraid that putting him in behind this line will do nothing for his confidence. Plus, he needs a year to observe and benefit from NFL quality PT. I'd like to see him put on 10 to 15 pounds or so and increase his strength.

FAX

Yes, I'm afraid Croyle's confidence would get a little deflated if he played behind this line.

Which would be almost as bad as the whole getting killed in his rookie year thing too.

[siberian khatru]

Yes, I'm afraid Croyle's confidence would get a little deflated if he played behind this line.


Hell, my confidence gets deflated just watching it on TV.

[Calcountry]

fukkit put bober in @ left tackle. he hasn't tried yet.LMAO:doh!:

[Rain Man]

The league should have some sort of disaster rule that says that when your starter is worse than the backups in half the league, you get to trade your starter for one of those backups.

[Deberg_1990]

I still think they should have moved Shields to LT.

[Calcountry]

The league should have some sort of disaster rule that says that when your starter is worse than the backups in half the league, you get to trade your starter for one of those backups.That would really screw up teams like the Patriots.

[milkman]

In this instance, experience is overrated.

The Trent Green Memorial Highway is back.

[TEX]

When one consider's the situation the Chiefs were in last year without Roaf, it's simply unbelievable that they're in their current mess at LT. But then nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to management overlooking an obvious team weaknesses. :shake:

[FAX]

The league should have some sort of disaster rule that says that when your starter is worse than the backups in half the league, you get to trade your starter for one of those backups.

I'm beginning to think, Mr. Rain Man, that if the league instituted mandatory drug testing for GMs and HCs our problems would come to an end.

FAX

[Mr. Laz]

I'm beginning to think, Mr. Rain Man, that if the league instituted mandatory drug testing for GMs and HCs our problems would come to an end.

FAX

might need some of that drug testing in modville too.



Personally, I don't think we have a problem at OT. We have last year's starter returning at RT and Turley has done EXTREMELY well given the circumstance.

[HMc]

wonder if john alt is busy sunday arvo

[morphius]

And how might he get some experience, Herm?

This might sound cruel, but it's better that Svitek is in there getting experience while Huard's playing than Croyle or Green. Besides, could he really be worse than Black?

My thought exactly. We know what Black is, he is a guard, he has had enought snaps there to prove that to ANYONE ACTUALLY watching. Give someone else a shot, and a bye week coming up against a team we should be able to beat is the perfect chance.

[svuba]

When one consider's the situation the Chiefs were in last year without Roaf, it's simply unbelievable that they're in their current mess at LT. But then nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to management overlooking an obvious team weaknesses. :shake:



Yes It is amazing that we didn't pick up one of the many available Pro-Bowl left tackles that nobody wanted! -


If Shields retires after this year It would be a Miracle for the Chiefs to finish over .500 Next year. . - - Honestly Great O-Lineman simply don't grow on trees.

If I recall correctly the majority of this board was screaming for a Defensive Tackle during the offseason not a replacement for a Pro-bowl LT who had not given any indication that he was retiring.

[htismaqe]

might need some of that drug testing in modville too.

Keep bringing it back up, there's nothing about that statement that is damning, ESPECIALLY when you keep bringing it up out of context.

Kevin Sampson played against Denver. How many sacks did we give up? Oh yeah, that's right.

So, the game against Cinci saw Turley at LT and the guy at right tackle WASN'T LAST YEAR'S STARTER. How many sacks did Turley give up?

Oh yeah, that's right.

So far when both Turley and Sampson are in the game (and you know damn well that's the ONLY two people I'm talking about) we've given up no sacks.

:hmmm:

[htismaqe]

Yes It is amazing that we didn't pick up one of the many available Pro-Bowl left tackles that nobody wanted! -


If Shields retires after this year It would be a Miracle for the Chiefs to finish over .500 Next year. . - - Honestly Great O-Lineman simply don't grow on trees.

If I recall correctly the majority of this board was screaming for a Defensive Tackle during the offseason not a replacement for a Pro-bowl LT who had not given any indication that he was retiring.

Get that shit outta here. Nobody likes an apologist.

[DaneMcCloud]

If we go 0-3, I say rest Green the season, and put Croyle in.

Why? I don't understand that sentiment. We're not talking about Peyton or Eli Manning talent here. He was a third rounder and though he may be a very good NFL QB someday, he's not even close to being ready now. There's not a solid offensive line to put him behind, unlike Big Ben and the Steelers.

Why the rush to put an undersized guy (at 200 pounds), who's had two knees surgeries in the past 4 years behind this line? To ruin his confidence? To rattle him so much that he'll never be an effective player?

Bad idea.

[cdcox]

Why? I don't understand that sentiment. We're not talking about Peyton or Eli Manning talent here. He was a third rounder and though he may be a very good NFL QB someday, he's not even close to being ready now. There's not a solid offensive line to put him behind, unlike Big Ben and the Steelers.

Why the rush to put an undersized guy (at 200 pounds), who's had two knees surgeries in the past 4 years behind this line? To ruin his confidence? To rattle him so much that he'll never be an effective player?

Bad idea.

I agree that you don't want to have him play a whole game. But if the season is hopeless I wouldn't mind seeing Croyle play for a few series here and there in low pressure situations. Keep a good mix of run and pass and using passing plays with good protection and easy targets. Just enough to let him get a feel for the speed of the game and to provide some live-action context for his off season study.

[Chieftain58]

we're screwed!

[ck_IN]

<i>If I recall correctly the majority of this board was screaming for a Defensive Tackle during the offseason not a replacement for a Pro-bowl LT who had not given any indication that he was retiring.</i>

I don't pretend to speak for everyone but using a high pick on a Olinemen would've made great sense to me. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that an aging LT with leg problems isn't long for this game and a replacement might be in order. Turley is a good stop gap but no more.

[Mr. Laz]

So far when both Turley and Sampson are in the game (and you know damn well that's the ONLY two people I'm talking about) we've given up no sacks.
and it only took neutering the entire offense




Brilliant!

[TEX]

Yes It is amazing that we didn't pick up one of the many available Pro-Bowl left tackles that nobody wanted! -


If Shields retires after this year It would be a Miracle for the Chiefs to finish over .500 Next year. . - - Honestly Great O-Lineman simply don't grow on trees.

If I recall correctly the majority of this board was screaming for a Defensive Tackle during the offseason not a replacement for a Pro-bowl LT who had not given any indication that he was retiring.

Nobody said we needed a Pro Bowl LT to replace Roaf. All we had to do was get one that didn't aspire to be a TE and it would have been an improvement. Many LT's were available. (A guy like Ephraim Salam would have been an IMPROVEMENT) My point is it would not have taken much effort to improve the depth, or lack there of, at the Tackle position with someone other than a player who was out of football for a couple of years. We went CHEAP, and it cost us. So, get off the "many available Pro Bowl LT" kick to replace Roaf. You're way off on that one friend if you really think that was the only option.

[TEX]

Keep bringing it back up, there's nothing about that statement that is damning, ESPECIALLY when you keep bringing it up out of context.

Kevin Sampson played against Denver. How many sacks did we give up? Oh yeah, that's right.

So, the game against Cinci saw Turley at LT and the guy at right tackle WASN'T LAST YEAR'S STARTER. How many sacks did Turley give up?

Oh yeah, that's right.

So far when both Turley and Sampson are in the game (and you know damn well that's the ONLY two people I'm talking about) we've given up no sacks.

:hmmm:


Um, how many times did we THROW DEEP?

Oh yeah, that's right? :hmmm:

[Chiefnj]

Yes It is amazing that we didn't pick up one of the many available Pro-Bowl left tackles that nobody wanted! -


If Shields retires after this year It would be a Miracle for the Chiefs to finish over .500 Next year. . - - Honestly Great O-Lineman simply don't grow on trees.

If I recall correctly the majority of this board was screaming for a Defensive Tackle during the offseason not a replacement for a Pro-bowl LT who had not given any indication that he was retiring.


Actually 2 weeks ago someone bumped up a poll from December/January that asked what position should be addressed early in the draft and the #1 response was OT.

[htismaqe]

and it only took neutering the entire offense

Brilliant!

According to the geniouses here, neutering the offense was inevitable and the tackles had nothing to with it.

It's called HermyBall.

[htismaqe]

Um, how many times did we THROW DEEP?

Oh yeah, that's right? :hmmm:

What's that got to do with anything? We've been assured over and over RIGHT HERE that throwing deep isn't a part of HermyBall.

[Mr. Laz]

According to the geniouses here, neutering the offense was inevitable and the tackles had nothing to with it.

It's called HermyBall.
nice diversion try there .... what the people around here say has NOTHING to do with that fact that Turley and Sampson gave up no sacks under much easier conditions.

you made the point that they gave up no sacks ..... but conveniently ignored the fact that it had more to do with the style of offense than their talent level.




~laz~
wonders how Parker is gonna blame the fans for this one

[Mr. Laz]

What's that got to do with anything? We've been assured over and over RIGHT HERE that throwing deep isn't a part of HermyBall.

once again you're trying to shift the argument ... this isn't about hermy ball or not hermy ball.


this is about whether you were right is saying "we don't have a problem at tackle"


giving up no sacks while running a high school offense does in NO WAY mean that we have quality tackles. In fact, in many ways it says the exact opposite.

[ct]

Unless I missed it, I haven't seen any comment that we have quality tackles. I agree that if Turley's back turns out ok, and Sampson stays healthy on the right side, we're ok. I won't say great, won'te even say good, but we're ok.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

So did Turley practice today?

[Bob Dole]

So did Turley practice today?

Anybody?

[old_geezer]

So did Turley practice today?

According to the KC Star newspaper he did not. Herm held out hope that he might be available for some backup duty (which I seriously doubt).

[RINGLEADER]

Sorry, but Black's diapers should have come off a long time ago. Dude can't play. He may be our best option but I'd expect A LOT of two tight-end formations tomorrow.

[RedThat]

Sorry, but Black's diapers should have come off a long time ago. Dude can't play. He may be our best option but I'd expect A LOT of two tight-end formations tomorrow.

Oh yeah. Im with you on that one. If Jordan Black is starting, I want to see Jason Dunn in there with him all day.