View Full Version : Can the Royals be next years Tigers?
ArrowheadHawk
10-07-2006, 05:32 PM
or are they destined to suck.
Bob Dole
10-07-2006, 05:37 PM
Bob Dole will have to go with teh suck.
Thig Lyfe
10-07-2006, 05:38 PM
Only if they sign Juan Gonzalez.
Hootie
10-07-2006, 05:38 PM
No, because in order to attract free agents we'd have to pull a Toronto and overpay anyone worth a shit.
Hammock Parties
10-07-2006, 05:40 PM
The Rangers are next year's Tigers. We dumped Buck Showalter, which means an automatic World Series.
BigRock
10-07-2006, 05:42 PM
Maybe the '09 Royals could be... it took the Tigers a few years to go from 100 losses to this.
JBucc
10-07-2006, 05:48 PM
They have this stuff called pitching. If we get that next year maybe we will be.
'Hamas' Jenkins
10-07-2006, 05:54 PM
If the Royals had 3-5 power arms it is possible. Since they don't have anything close to that, along with holes at several positions, I'm going to have to go with nope.
SCTrojan
10-07-2006, 05:59 PM
Gotta agree with those who say there isn't enough pitching right now. Position player wise, the future looks fairly bright. Moore is working on the pitching issues, but time will tell on that. I would love to see it next year, but I think it's going to be some time before we see the Royals even sniffing the playoffs.
We don't have anybody who can throw 100 mph like it's nothing. The Tigers became great because they added a new 1/2 starter combo this year (Rogers-Verlander) and fixed the back end of their bullpen (Zumaya-Jones). Royals need more pitching, although they've got some starters with good stuff in Hochevar, Greinke, De La Rosa, and even Luke Hudson.
If the Royals had 3-5 power arms it is possible. Since they don't have anything close to that, along with holes at several positions, I'm going to have to go with nope.
I'd be interested in hearing where the holes at several positions are, besides shortstop.
Mama Hip Rockets
10-07-2006, 06:16 PM
Only if they sign Juan Gonzalez.
LMAO
wolfpack0735
10-07-2006, 06:41 PM
only if they spend some big money on several players .but that will never happen. LMAO
'Hamas' Jenkins
10-07-2006, 06:58 PM
I'd be interested in hearing where the holes at several positions are, besides shortstop.
Umm...pretty much every outfield position, short, second base, first base, arguably catcher.
This is what I don't get about the Royals...people say that their offense was good...they finished last in Homers, third from the bottom in runs, last in slugging, 10th out of 14 in batting average, 11th in on base %...
So let's say Alex Gordon is ready next year, I guess he could play third and Teahan could play first or vice versa. But Gordon has also never proven that he can produce on a major league level, and Teahan has only done if for one (very impressive but still short-lived) hot streak.
DeJesus should be a platoon-player (I don't think he's a Centerfielder on a good team), Emil Brown is thoroughly mediocre, Berroa is Berroa, Grudzielanek is decaying, Reggie Sanders is 4000 years old and can't hit a high fastball...still...What makes anyone think Buck is capable as a starting backstop...he hit .245, had an OPS of .700, and isn't exactly Pudge when calling a game.
the Royals were last in the majors in ERA, last in WHIP, and last in Ks. They gave up more hits than anyone and walked more than any team but the Cubs.
Other than that, they are poised for a run.
Umm...pretty much every outfield position, short, second base, first base, arguably catcher.
This is what I don't get about the Royals...people say that their offense was good...they finished last in Homers, third from the bottom in runs, last in slugging, 10th out of 14 in batting average, 11th in on base %...
So let's say Alex Gordon is ready next year, I guess he could play third and Teahan could play first or vice versa. But Gordon has also never proven that he can produce on a major league level, and Teahan has only done if for one (very impressive but still short-lived) hot streak.
DeJesus should be a platoon-player (I don't think he's a Centerfielder on a good team), Emil Brown is thoroughly mediocre, Berroa is Berroa, Grudzielanek is decaying, Reggie Sanders is 4000 years old and can't hit a high fastball...still...What makes anyone think Buck is capable as a starting backstop...he hit .245, had an OPS of .700, and isn't exactly Pudge when calling a game.
the Royals were last in the majors in ERA, last in WHIP, and last in Ks. They gave up more hits than anyone and walked more than any team but the Cubs.
Other than that, they are poised for a run.
Well... I don't even know what to say to all that. I completely disagree with almost everything you wrote here, except for that the pitching needs a lot of work. Especially that DeJesus is a platoon player, I don't even know what to say to that, the offense was 1000 times better when he came back from injury. And Ryan Shealy is the first baseman. You need to do a lot more research.
'Hamas' Jenkins
10-07-2006, 07:17 PM
Well... I don't even know what to say to all that. I completely disagree with almost everything you wrote here, except for that the pitching needs a lot of work. Especially that DeJesus is a platoon player, I don't even know what to say to that. And Ryan Shealy is the first baseman. You need to do a lot more research.
C'mon man...Shealy hasn't proven a damn thing... Brown is a very average player and DeJesus is a mediocre centerfield, at best . What has John Buck ever done? I mean, seriously?
You want to rest your team's chances on a guy who the Cardinals wouldn't offer dick too even though they had a severe need at 2B and a guy like Reggie Sanders who can hit a bad breaking ball with the best of them, but can't hit a good fastball to save his life??
Potential doesn't mean dick when it comes to results.
Sure-Oz
10-07-2006, 07:22 PM
C'mon man...Shealy hasn't proven a damn thing... Brown is a very average player and DeJesus is a mediocre centerfield, at best . What has John Buck ever done? I mean, seriously?
You want to rest your team's chances on a guy who the Cardinals wouldn't offer dick too even though they had a severe need at 2B and a guy like Reggie Sanders who can hit a bad breaking ball with the best of them, but can't hit a good fastball to save his life??
Potential doesn't mean dick when it comes to results.
Yeah cause Shealy's played a few seasons in the majors to prove himself....give me a break, he hasnt sucked, and if the Royals gave up on Teahan he wouldn't have had the year he did. It will take time and I don't think we have that many holes as you think. Dejesus is a solid player and would probably be on most teams.
You obviously haven't actually watched Grudzielanek play, he should win a Gold Glove this year. And he hit almost .300, I don't know what more you could ask for at that price. That was a huge mistake by the Cardinals. The Cardinals went cheap this year, I wouldn't be making any judgments based on their FA decisions.
Shealy will be a good hitter. DeJesus is already a good hitter, and very good defender. Brown and Sanders don't really fit into the long term plans of the team, although I like Emil, he has a great approach at the plate. In a couple years Billy Butler will be out there in RF.
'Hamas' Jenkins
10-07-2006, 07:26 PM
You obviously haven't actually watched Grudzielanek play, he should win a Gold Glove this year. And he hit almost .300, I don't know what more you could ask for at that price. That was a huge mistake by the Cardinals. The Cardinals went cheap this year, I wouldn't be making any judgments based on their FA decisions.
Shealy will be a good hitter. DeJesus is already a good hitter, and very good defender. Brown and Sanders don't really fit into the long term plans of the team, although I like Emil, he has a great approach at the plate. In a couple years Billy Butler will be out there in RF.
You can't say that Grudzielanek fits in either long term...he's 37? now...and you seem to forget that this is about next year's team...look at the thread title. I'm not saying that Shealy can't be a good hitter, I'm saying that expecting him to produce next year is asking too much, just like expecting anyone on that team to actually produce at an all-star level is asking too much.
So in another one/two years when Butler, Shealy, and Gordon are *ready* (provided that they all actually *do* produce at a major league level which is by no means certain) you've got guys like Grudzielanek, Sanders and Brown whose holes need to be filled.
Your expectations require all of their upper level prospects to pan out, but we all know that does not happen. You are going to have busts along the way, especially given that many of these people weren't exactly drafted by the best scouting department to ever be assembled.
You can't say that Grudzielanek fits in either long term...he's 37? now...and you seem to forget that this is about next year's team...look at the thread title. I'm not saying that Shealy can't be a good hitter, I'm saying that expecting him to produce next year is asking too much, just like expecting anyone on that team to actually produce at an all-star level is asking too much.
So in another one/two years when Butler, Shealy, and Gordon are *ready* (provided that they all actually *do* produce at a major league level which is by no means certain) you've got guys like Grudzielanek, Sanders and Brown whose holes need to be filled.
Your expectations require all of their upper level prospects to pan out, but we all know that does not happen. You are going to have busts along the way, especially given that many of these people weren't exactly drafted by the best scouting department to ever be assembled.
You realize Shealy played nearly a third of the season in KC don't you? And he already was producing... and it was the first time he's ever gotten regular duty really. If you project that out, it would've been a .280/22 HR/114 RBI season.
Grudz isn't a long term solution but he looks okay so far. As long as he keeps playing D and slaps it around a little I'm okay. Plus there are two guys in German and Jeff Keppinger that could be long term solutions. I'd say both Teahen and Shealy were producing pretty high levels. Teahen definitely was at All-Star level.
Sure-Oz
10-07-2006, 07:36 PM
You put Gordon and Butler in the mix of this lineup we got something really going! We have some possible starters but need more. Just have to hope we have a bounce back year with some reliever. So is Burgos a starter now or what??
I don't think my expectations are that high at all. The only two upper level prospects I'm predicting pan out are Butler and Gordon. And those guys will pan out. Those might be the two best hitters in minor league baseball. Everything else on top of that is gravy, Lubanski, Maier, Justin Huber, etc. And the Royals system is pretty good at producing position players I'd say, just the absolute worst at developing pitchers.
'Hamas' Jenkins
10-07-2006, 07:42 PM
You realize Shealy played nearly a third of the season in KC don't you? And he already was producing... and it was the first time he's ever gotten regular duty really. If you project that out, it would've been a .280/22 HR/114 RBI season.
Grudz isn't a long term solution but he looks okay so far. As long as he keeps playing D and slaps it around a little I'm okay. Plus there are two guys in German and Jeff Keppinger that could be long term solutions. I'd say both Teahen and Shealy were producing pretty high levels. Teahen definitely was at All-Star level.
Teahan was great the 2nd half of the season, but a lot of that was one torrid streak. I'm not saying he can't produce over 162 games, but he hasn't done it yet.
Regarding Shealy...he hit 7 HR over 50 some games...yeah that projects out to 22 HR, but it can also just be a nice 50 games. He's never done it over a whole season.
I say again, this is the problem with all Royals fans...you take these short term blips and blow them up into far more than what they really are. Albert Pujols was on pace to hit 80 homeruns after April, and as great as he is, he ended up with 49. You can't assume that one great month or two is indicative of a player's overall ability. You guys always stake your team's future to these incredibly-short term projections and they seldom work out as well as you'd desire. .
'Hamas' Jenkins
10-07-2006, 07:43 PM
I don't think my expectations are that high at all. The only two upper level prospects I'm predicting pan out are Butler and Gordon. And those guys will pan out. Those might be the two best hitters in minor league baseball. Everything else on top of that is gravy, Lubanski, Maier, Justin Huber, etc. And the Royals system is pretty good at producing position players I'd say, just the absolute worst at developing pitchers.
We need to do some kind of sig bet over this...
Halfcan
10-07-2006, 07:46 PM
Royals can be the next T bones if they get a new Owner and start drafting well and paying for good players.
You are way out in left field here. Teahen just didn't have one little torrid streak. Drives me nuts when people say that. He was on fire for about 4 whole months. Since when did that become a little "torrid streak". Has Pujols just been on a "torrid streak" for 6 years now? At what point does it stop becoming a hot streak and become legitimate improvement?
Teahen went to the minor leagues and made some swing adjustments. Since that point he completely tore the cover off the ball at AAA and in the majors. And he did it with a shoulder problem. Ryan Shealy has torn the cover off the ball at every level of baseball he's ever played. He finally got a chance to play everyday and he continued to do it. Now, anything possible and they could go through the floor, but you act like it's some Chris Shelton deal where somebody played way over their head for a month and everybody got excited. It's really not like that.
or are they destined to suck.
Question number 1. Ummmm no.
Question number 2. Yep
'Hamas' Jenkins
10-07-2006, 07:52 PM
Now, anything possible and they could go through the floor, but you act like it's some Chris Shelton deal where somebody played way over their head for a month and everybody got excited. It's really not like that.
And you are pencilling these guys in as potential all-stars. When '05 started, what was the consensus on Teahan? He was a light-hitting 3B. Shealy has potential, but he also had a Rob Deer-esque K per game while with the Royals. You are also forgetting that was his first go-round with AL pitching...they haven't found his true weak spots yet.
It's just as likely these guys are going to end up like Ken Harvey or Bob Hamlin as they are going to be leading players on a good MLB team.
Adept Havelock
10-07-2006, 07:56 PM
Can the Royals be next years tigers?
No.
And you are pencilling these guys in as potential all-stars. When '05 started, what was the consensus on Teahan? He was a light-hitting 3B. Shealy has potential, but he also had a Rob Deer-esque K per game while with the Royals. You are also forgetting that was his first go-round with AL pitching...they haven't found his true weak spots yet.
It's just as likely these guys are going to end up like Ken Harvey or Bob Hamlin as they are going to be leading players on a good MLB team.
I mean, yeah, you could be right. Maybe they'll all get hurt. Nothing is ever guaranteed. Hamelin kept getting hurt and had eye problems. But you could say the same thing about any player. Maybe Pujols is going to develop some eye problem or hurt himself and never be the same again. Maybe Chris Carpenter is going to break his arm throwing a curveball. You don't know. You gotta go forward with what you have.
But I would say I've always been a big supporter of Teahen, even when all the fans and analysts were knocking him. And to be honest I think he has a chance to be better defensively than people give him credit for. I really like him, I think he's gonna be a good baseball player. Very good plate discipline, outstanding baserunner, very good arm, very patient and calm, makes him good in late-game situations. I mean maybe Shealy will be the next Ken Harvey, I don't know. I really don't think so, just watching them play, Harvey never displayed Shealy's power. Shealy can hit it a ton, and I think has better plate discipline than Harvey did, Harvey would go up there hacking, hit a lot of ground balls. I can handle the strikeouts as long as he keeps mixing in some 420 foot bombs every few days.
teedubya
10-07-2006, 08:25 PM
The Tiggers signed Pudge Rodriguez, and we signed Benito Santiago and Juan Gonzalez. I think if we had signed Pudge, we would be a lot farther along, as he obviously knows how to bring out the strengths in his pitchers.
Now, The Royals have a strong core of new players coming along. We just need some arms... Hopefully, the trading that Dayton did this season will pay off. I have to assume that he will go out and get a #1 or #2 gun in the offseason.
regardless, I bet a case of beer with anyone that the Royals dont lose 90 games next year.
Logical
10-07-2006, 09:35 PM
IMO NO
Halfcan
10-07-2006, 10:11 PM
The Alex Gordon Show-coming this Spring.
Mecca
10-07-2006, 10:43 PM
I bet everyone gets pissed when Gordon is in AAA next year...
I bet everyone gets pissed when Gordon is in AAA next year...
I'd have no problem with it. I'm not in any hurry to see him, let him get fat on AAA pitching with Billy Butler. Hard to say though, if he has a huge spring it'll be hard to keep him down.
Eleazar
10-07-2006, 11:00 PM
I'd have no problem with it. I'm not in any hurry to see him, let him get fat on AAA pitching with Billy Butler. Hard to say though, if he has a huge spring it'll be hard to keep him down.
Yeah, start him them in Omaha at least. If needs/performance dictate then maybe you can debut them at some point, but at least let them get comfortable at AAA first.
Mecca
10-07-2006, 11:01 PM
I'd have no problem with it. I'm not in any hurry to see him, let him get fat on AAA pitching with Billy Butler. Hard to say though, if he has a huge spring it'll be hard to keep him down.
Where's he gonna play? Left field?
Where's he gonna play? Left field?
No idea. People seem to believe Teahen's moving to left. I really don't know. I mean, Gordon's a good defender too. It is kinda rough because I think Teahen was really starting to get it at third too, and Gordon will probably go through some growing pains defensively. That's a brutally tough decision, I'm glad I'm not making it.
Really, if we could get rid of Sweeney we could just rotate Teahen between LF/DH... or have Shealy/Teahen rotate 1B/DH. Teahen's pretty athletic though, it'd be better to have him out in the field you'd think.
Hammock Parties
10-07-2006, 11:30 PM
What I don't understand is why can't they put Teahen in at shortstop? Berroa is not the answer for this team, because he's always depressed looking out there, not willing to try hard. If they put teahen at short and have gordon at 3rd and shealy at first, IMO we'd be a much better team offensively and defensively. Don't move shealy from first, he has very good defensive skills.
CHIEF4EVER
10-08-2006, 01:28 AM
I can't wait to see all the Royals bashers eat plate after plate of crow next season.
Sure-Oz
10-08-2006, 01:57 AM
Royals future is starting to look real bright, we have a direction now and it looks like we could be back within a few years.
CHIEF4EVER
10-08-2006, 02:02 AM
Royals future is starting to look real bright, we have a direction now and it looks like we could be back within a few years.
Yep. Dayton Moore and Buddy Bell are two of the best hirings in a loooooooooong time. We finally have competence where it counts.
Oxford
10-08-2006, 06:37 AM
Next Year's Tigers= No way
Next Year's Royals= Yes
Emil Brown, Reggie Sanders and Mike Sweeney do not fit with this club long-term, but for next year they do (unless traded). Forget Free-agent pitching because there is none, unless you catch lightening in a bottle with some other career MinorLeaguer or a Change of Scenery veteran.
Progress for this club (for next year) is not going to be measured by wins/losses. Progress will be Greinke, Lumsden, Gordon and Butler tearing apart AAA. Additional progress will be a trade of Brown/Sanders/Berroa for starting pitching.
runnercyclist
10-08-2006, 09:55 AM
No
chiefsfan987
10-08-2006, 11:45 AM
I don't think the Royals can be this years Tigers without aquiring tons of pitching help. Additionally, this team seriously needs to learn the fundamentals of the game. Has there ever been a team like the Royals who continually throws to the wrong base, runs into so many outs on the bags when they have no chance etc.? Until they start playing fundamentally sound ball and acquire some pitching they're going to continue to struggle. What I can't figure out is why KC hasn't figured out that they're giving their opposition so many free extra runs by throwing to the wrong base and correct the problem. They beat themselves more than any other team in baseball.
On a positive note, if they have some good acquisitions this offseason I COULD see them reliving another "03" type year.
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