View Full Version : What has happened to our offensive line?
htismaqe
10-30-2006, 09:02 AM
Over the last 2 games, we've played 2 of the best pass-rushing teams in football.
Damon Huard has not only emerged unscathed, but we've opened up the playbook as wide as it's ever been. We're getting the ball downfield to Kennison and Gonzo has had, back-to-back, his best games in 2 or 3 years.
I was talking to a former D-1 offensive lineman yesterday and he told me that it's repetition. I've heard the Chiefs talk about it before too.
Basically what he told me is that Black and Sampson might be more talented than we all thought. He said the two things that contribute to offensive linemen being successful, MORE than talent, are related to repetition. The first is the guy just getting reps for himself and getting better. The second is getting reps with the rest of the line.
So, in summary, he said that what has happened to this line is that they've played together now for half a season. He said he wouldn't bring Welbourn back at this point (I wouldn't either, but for different reasons) he said the line will just continue to get better...
I agree. While Black and Sampson still are making some mistakes, they are playing a lot better. They are making a lot more good plays than bad plays now.
JBucc
10-30-2006, 09:08 AM
I guess Herm was right with that whole gellin thing. And to think, all Black and Sampson needed was a little extra padding in their shoes.
Dark Horse
10-30-2006, 09:13 AM
Black is even learning when to hold. The one he got called for would have resulted in a sack and maybe a fumble.
Mike Solari > Jesus Saunders
Another great post in a continuing series of great posts, Mr. htismaqe.
Waters, Herm, etc. have been saying for a while now that it would be a bad idea to monkey with the offensive line lineup any more. Prior to yesterday's game, I would have suggested otherwise because anybody can play monkey. Anyway, it does appear that they are gellin'.
I am very surprised.
FAX
morphius
10-30-2006, 09:16 AM
Which is why I thought we have done a disservice to many of our OL by continually moving them all around. Black started off playing at right tackle pretty well, then we moved him to LT and Guard and back to RT and back to LT... There is no stability there, and unless you are a true stud any move like that is going to be difficult.
At least from my observations.
Which is why I thought we have done a disservice to many of our OL by continually moving them all around. Black started off playing at right tackle pretty well, then we moved him to LT and Guard and back to RT and back to LT... There is no stability there, and unless you are a true stud any move like that is going to be difficult.
At least from my observations.
Very good observation. :thumb:
And I'd rather not have Welbourne back either. I don't like repeat roid offenders on the team I root for..... especially ones that retire to try and make a point....
Rain Man
10-30-2006, 09:20 AM
I too have noted the great improvement in the line recently. It's been very heartening.
htismaqe
10-30-2006, 09:21 AM
Which is why I thought we have done a disservice to many of our OL by continually moving them all around. Black started off playing at right tackle pretty well, then we moved him to LT and Guard and back to RT and back to LT... There is no stability there, and unless you are a true stud any move like that is going to be difficult.
At least from my observations.
Great observation.
Kylo Ren
10-30-2006, 09:22 AM
I agree. But, I'd still bring back Welbourne for depth. He can fill in at both T spots and both G spots.
G spots? :spock:
htismaqe
10-30-2006, 09:22 AM
And I'd rather not have Welbourne back either. I don't like repeat roid offenders on the team I root for..... especially ones that retire to try and make a point....
Exactly the two reasons I don't want him back.
It's one thing to be a cheater. It's another to be a quitter.
It's an altogether different deal to be a cheater AND a quitter.
Chiefnj
10-30-2006, 09:23 AM
What has happened to our offensive line?
I read that Welbourn has been giving everyone his special strength tonic.
TinyEvel
10-30-2006, 09:35 AM
This is what I said when the line was floundering early in the season. These guys need time to work together to get the rhythm and know where the guy next to them is going and when.
I'd still consider replacing Black if he lets guys get past him like during the Huard sack yesterday.
I agree. But, I'd still bring back Welbourne for depth. He can fill in at both T spots and both G spots.
G spots? :spock:
So you're saying Welbourne can fill your G spot?
:hmmm:
NTTAWWT
boogblaster
10-30-2006, 09:43 AM
You'd play too, if they tied up your parents and threatened to shoot them if you didn't start playing better....
morphius
10-30-2006, 10:01 AM
I don't think he retired to make a point, I think he knew he was going to be suspended and tried to make it look like he was leaving on his terms other then explain what happened again.
Hopefully the other guys are good enough to keep him off the active game day roster.
JakeT
10-30-2006, 10:04 AM
Good post
I'll add that run blocking is easier than pass blocking -- with all the stunts and blitz packages in the NFL learning to pass block has to be one of the most difficult things to learn and you have to know exactly where the people next to you are going be -- with run blocking you dictate who you're going to put your hat on so its a little easier to execute.
Welbourne was always better at run blocking there's n way I'd put him in now -- and I love this summary:
It's an altogether different deal to be a cheater AND a quitter.
TrickyNicky
10-30-2006, 10:09 AM
I think it's also Huard understanding that he doesn't have more than 3 seconds, and getting the ball out. The gelling O line helps. Right now, I think Black is playing LT better than Sampson has been at RT, easily. Sampson doesn't have as good of footwork and gets beat on the outside fake/inside move quite a bit. Still though, they've been playing solid in light of that.
The OLine has definitely been playing better. I don't think they are entirely to blame for Huard's two fumbles the last two weeks, he was holding on to the ball a little longer than he should have. He's got to learn to just get rid of the ball after a certain amount of time has elapsed. The OLine has also kept holding penalties and false starts to a minimum lately.
Sully
10-30-2006, 10:12 AM
On a play where Huard fumbled yesterday, did anyone see Waters completely flat-back a Seahawk just before it happened?
Domination is fun to watch when it's your team (and typically when it's not followed by a turnover).
ck_IN
10-30-2006, 10:13 AM
There's a reason we had the best oline in the league for several years running. Outside of sheer talent a big reason is that they didn't get hurt and played together week in and week out.
I'm still not sold on Black as a left tackle but he seems servicable.
Easy 6
10-30-2006, 10:17 AM
For me yesterday was the closest i've come to feeling like i was watching a game from the glory days. Our interior in particular stonewalled blitz after blitz and flat-out dominated in the run game, it was truly sweet to behold.
Easy 6
10-30-2006, 10:33 AM
The OLine has definitely been playing better. I don't think they are entirely to blame for Huard's two fumbles the last two weeks, he was holding on to the ball a little longer than he should have. He's got to learn to just get rid of the ball after a certain amount of time has elapsed. The OLine has also kept holding penalties and false starts to a minimum lately.
Nice post dude.
Demonpenz
10-30-2006, 10:38 AM
The threat of our draw plays keeps those linebackers and De's getting up the field
Reerun_KC
10-30-2006, 10:40 AM
For me yesterday was the closest i've come to feeling like i was watching a game from the glory days. Our interior in particular stonewalled blitz after blitz and flat-out dominated in the run game, it was truly sweet to behold.
I know it was awesome. Reminded me of the Vermiel days.. A DB falling down giving up a big play for a TD. Defensive errors right and left. Holding, Dropped Pick 6's, Turnover then fumble right back. The offense having to out score the other team. Leading all day to fall behind and win. Then playing to win the game.
What a great game it was!
dtebbe
10-30-2006, 10:42 AM
I'm still not sold on Black as a left tackle but he seems servicable.
Yea, we may have to downgrade him to a State Highway..
U.S. 65
DT
Easy 6
10-30-2006, 10:43 AM
I know it was awesome. Reminded me of the Vermiel days.. A DB falling down giving up a big play for a TD. Defensive errors right and left. Holding, Dropped Pick 6's, Turnover then fumble right back. The offense having to out score the other team. Leading all day to fall behind and win. Then playing to win the game.
What a great game it was!
STFU :crybaby:
htismaqe
10-30-2006, 10:44 AM
STFU :crybaby:
You just have to learn to ignore him.
ptlyon
10-30-2006, 10:59 AM
Maybe it was just me, but I thought Sampson sucked major elephant baows.
htismaqe
10-30-2006, 11:06 AM
Maybe it was just me, but I thought Sampson sucked major elephant baows.
For me, it's about the results.
He's not giving up sacks and the running game is working.
BIG_DADDY
10-30-2006, 11:16 AM
For me, it's about the results.
He's not giving up sacks and the running game is working.
I agree that the O line has looked better than I thought it would going into this season. Truth is the Chiefs absolutely dominated the seachickens outside of a few glaring mistakes.
Pasta Little Brioni
10-30-2006, 11:49 AM
500 yards of total offense enough said.
Calcountry
10-30-2006, 11:51 AM
Over the last 2 games, we've played 2 of the best pass-rushing teams in football.
Damon Huard has not only emerged unscathed, but we've opened up the playbook as wide as it's ever been. We're getting the ball downfield to Kennison and Gonzo has had, back-to-back, his best games in 2 or 3 years.
I was talking to a former D-1 offensive lineman yesterday and he told me that it's repetition. I've heard the Chiefs talk about it before too.
Basically what he told me is that Black and Sampson might be more talented than we all thought. He said the two things that contribute to offensive linemen being successful, MORE than talent, are related to repetition. The first is the guy just getting reps for himself and getting better. The second is getting reps with the rest of the line.
So, in summary, he said that what has happened to this line is that they've played together now for half a season. He said he wouldn't bring Welbourn back at this point (I wouldn't either, but for different reasons) he said the line will just continue to get better...It seems to me, that when Herm publicly said Black is our left tackle, and said that he is a good player, just needs to stay in the same position(continuity within the line) to work it out.
It was like a vote of confidence for the guy and he has performed adequately lately.
Bennett was getting outside to the left yesterday for some gains. I loved that hurdle play too.
Calcountry
10-30-2006, 11:55 AM
The OLine has definitely been playing better. I don't think they are entirely to blame for Huard's two fumbles the last two weeks, he was holding on to the ball a little longer than he should have. He's got to learn to just get rid of the ball after a certain amount of time has elapsed. The OLine has also kept holding penalties and false starts to a minimum lately.I blame the play call for the fumble. At that point in the game, we should have been content to run the ball, and then punt.
We were deep in our own territory, no need to force things. WE DO have a better D, capable of making stops.
Calcountry
10-30-2006, 11:58 AM
Exactly the two reasons I don't want him back.
It's one thing to be a cheater. It's another to be a quitter.
It's an altogether different deal to be a cheater AND a quitter.It is good for our depth chart though at this point. Don't start him, just keep him arround for some depth.
Mr. Kotter
10-30-2006, 12:03 PM
Pretty simple.
They found their nads. :)
Redrum_69
10-30-2006, 12:04 PM
bunnytrdr..
Yesterdays Chiefs game was like your mom...I was deep in your moms territory for most of the day, there was fumbling of balls, just when I thought it was over she made sure to keep coming back for more, and all through the day the world watched with unabandoned attention as I ran my ball down her throat...
PunkinDrublic
10-30-2006, 12:05 PM
I think any changes that need to made to the offensive line need to be done in the offseason and that's only if you can upgrade at any of the spots. This is more than likely Will Shields last season and hopefully we can find a guy to effectively play in his spot. Huards playing solid under our line but just think how great it will be when Trent comes back.
Over the last 2 games, we've played 2 of the best pass-rushing teams in football.
Damon Huard has not only emerged unscathed, but we've opened up the playbook as wide as it's ever been. We're getting the ball downfield to Kennison and Gonzo has had, back-to-back, his best games in 2 or 3 years.
I was talking to a former D-1 offensive lineman yesterday and he told me that it's repetition. I've heard the Chiefs talk about it before too.
Basically what he told me is that Black and Sampson might be more talented than we all thought. He said the two things that contribute to offensive linemen being successful, MORE than talent, are related to repetition. ...
Wow, then we might have given up on Trazell Jenkins too soon? Give me TALENT + repetition.
htismaqe
10-30-2006, 12:12 PM
Wow, then we might have given up on Trazell Jenkins too soon? Give me TALENT + repetition.
ROFL
Some people will find any reason they can to bitch...
Calcountry
10-30-2006, 12:13 PM
bunnytrdr..
Yesterdays Chiefs game was like your mom...I was deep in your moms territory for most of the day, there was fumbling of balls, just when I thought it was over she made sure to keep coming back for more, and all through the day the world watched with unabandoned attention as I ran my ball down her throat...No wonder Gaz doesn't post here anymore.
|Zach|
10-30-2006, 12:16 PM
No wonder Gaz doesn't post here anymore.
Oh well...
donkhater
10-30-2006, 12:27 PM
Not to beat on a guy (Trent) when he's down, but could it be that Huard has also made the line look better?
Someone eluded to it earlier when they wrote that Huard was getting the ball away quickly.
If there was ever one complaint that I had about Green it is that he holds on to the ball WAY to long sometimes. Rarely has he EVER thrown the ball into the stands. True, it does give him a chance to get a big play, but it also leads to sacks and turnovers at bad times in the game, not to mention takes Gonzo out of the mix.
ROFL
Some people will find any reason they can to bitch...
I wasn't bitching. I agree with you. I was just stating that it also takes talent, which IMO is very important. I know you know that. ALso, IMHO no amount of repetition could have helped Jenkins, and I know you know that too...
ptlyon
10-30-2006, 12:40 PM
For me, it's about the results.
He's not giving up sacks and the running game is working.
SAMPSON HOMER!!! SAMPSON HOMER!!!
Hammock Parties
10-30-2006, 12:53 PM
I was worried about Sampson yesterday, because Seattle's LE is very underrated and very quick. Sampson did a pretty good job against him. I thought Shields struggled with Rocky Bernard more than anything...he's showing his age.
The run blocking has been superb. I watched LJ's 38 yard-run in slow-mo last night and Black and Sampson were both turned loose at the snap. They both had key blocks at the perfect moments.
htismaqe
10-30-2006, 01:09 PM
I wasn't bitching. I agree with you. I was just stating that it also takes talent, which IMO is very important. I know you know that. ALso, IMHO no amount of repetition could have helped Jenkins, and I know you know that too...
OK, I totally missed your point. Sorry about that.
Of course, SOME level of talent is required. But this former OL I was talking to said the biggest key to being a good OL is practice, practice, practice.
We were actually talking about Robert Gallery, who not coincidentally has been moved around quite a bit by the Raiders and has not lived up to where he was picked...
I was worried about Sampson yesterday, because Seattle's LE is very underrated and very quick. Sampson did a pretty good job against him. I thought Shields struggled with Rocky Bernard more than anything...he's showing his age.
The run blocking has been superb. I watched LJ's 38 yard-run in slow-mo last night and Black and Sampson were both turned loose at the snap. They both had key blocks at the perfect moments.
You should post a thread breaking down that play. ;)
I was worried about Sampson yesterday, because Seattle's LE is very underrated and very quick. Sampson did a pretty good job against him. I thought Shields struggled with Rocky Bernard more than anything...he's showing his age.
Yeah.... I noticed Bernard in the backfield quite a bit.... wasn't sure if that was more him being a good DT, or Shields showing age...
shaneo69
10-30-2006, 01:31 PM
Huard has been prone to killer fumbles in his short time as starter. Denver, SD, and now Seattle. Not sure if he will ever improve in that category. That said, he seems to be able to step up in the pocket when there is pressure from the outside, in order to give himself an extra split-second to make a good throw, which I never saw Trent do. If there was ever pressure around the OT's while Trent was back there, it always seemed like he would just take the sack instead of stepping up into the middle of the line to make the throw.
Hammock Parties
10-30-2006, 01:32 PM
You should post a thread breaking down that play. ;)
I've been informed I don't know shit about football...I couldn't possibly do that.
Mecca
10-30-2006, 01:42 PM
Even if you don't want Welbourne to play this year, we're going to need him for next year. We're going to lose another starter......
htismaqe
10-30-2006, 01:52 PM
Even if you don't want Welbourne to play this year, we're going to need him for next year. We're going to lose another starter......
I would imagine he'll retire again when his contract demands aren't met...
'Hamas' Jenkins
10-30-2006, 01:56 PM
Actually, I think that we'd be better off finding a solid LT replacement and moving Black to RG. I know it's bouncing him around all over again, but it's a better longterm solution for the franchise. However, if Black somehow really turns it up and emerges as a solid LT (highly unlikely) we could replace Shields in the draft. Granted, we aren't going to get a HOF guard, but it will be at least a servicable replacement if our scouting dept. earns their paychecks. Middle rounds are great value for guards.
OK, I totally missed your point. Sorry about that.
Of course, SOME level of talent is required. But this former OL I was talking to said the biggest key to being a good OL is practice, practice, practice.
We were actually talking about Robert Gallery, who not coincidentally has been moved around quite a bit by the Raiders and has not lived up to where he was picked...
Good point. I mean he is supposed to have all the "talent" and was a sure fire "can't miss" prospect.
htismaqe
10-30-2006, 01:59 PM
Actually, I think that we'd be better off finding a solid LT replacement and moving Black to RG. I know it's bouncing him around all over again, but it's a better longterm solution for the franchise. However, if Black somehow really turns it up and emerges as a solid LT (highly unlikely) we could replace Shields in the draft. Granted, we aren't going to get a HOF guard, but it will be at least a servicable replacement if our scouting dept. earns their paychecks. Middle rounds are great value for guards.
Mike Jones.
'Hamas' Jenkins
10-30-2006, 02:00 PM
Mike Jones.
Mike Jones
htismaqe
10-30-2006, 02:05 PM
Mike Jones
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/og/mikejones.html
'Hamas' Jenkins
10-30-2006, 02:15 PM
Thanks for the link...but it was a joke, too :D
htismaqe
10-30-2006, 02:51 PM
Thanks for the link...but it was a joke, too :D
Ah...I thought it was a QUESTION. I'm clueless. :D
I still have a problem with Black at LT. I think Turley and Welbourn would both be upgrades over Jordan Black at this point. However, Consistency is the thing, and I am sure Brian Waters is getting more and more comfortable with Black next to him.
Black is very solid in the running game. But he struggles at times with his pass blocking. Julian Peterson abused Black on several plays yesterday.
Pitt Gorilla
10-30-2006, 02:59 PM
Maybe Dick Curl's influence has been positive. Sorry, that had to be typed.
HemiEd
10-30-2006, 03:12 PM
Once again the coaches prove they know what they are doing. It would be great to see this line get good, while getting younger.
'Hamas' Jenkins
10-30-2006, 03:14 PM
Ah...I thought it was a QUESTION. I'm clueless. :D
I was referring to Mike Jones the rapper and a particular song...Mike Jones, Mike Jones...yadda yadda yadda. :thumb:
HC_Chief
10-30-2006, 03:17 PM
Highway 65 led to a sack + fumble, but otherwise did a'ight.
The line is still a bit shaky... but it's not horrible. I am actually glad to see more 2-TE sets anyway, as that formation suits our personnel. Jason Dunn is a frigging badass. He can catch too... but they appear to be content with having him just block.
I like Wilson at H-Back! He has been quite a weapon thus far.
htismaqe
10-30-2006, 03:18 PM
I was referring to Mike Jones the rapper and a particular song...Mike Jones, Mike Jones...yadda yadda yadda. :thumb:
No wonder.
I don't do rap.
'Hamas' Jenkins
10-30-2006, 03:20 PM
If we draft him, hopefully Mike Jones don't do blown assignments.
HemiEd
10-30-2006, 03:37 PM
I like Wilson at H-Back! He has been quite a weapon thus far.
He is amazing.
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