What happened to this defense?

[RealSNR]

Why the drop in production? Did we just decide to play like shit? Is Derrick Johnson's absense that gashing? WTF?

I want some answers

[Dark Horse]

no heart, no sense of purpose

[CupidStunt]

Mirage.

I was fooled into it, too. No one's alone.

We're absolutely horse sh*t. Most overrated DBs in the NFL, sh*tty linebackers outside of DJ and HORRIBLE DTs. Absolutely horrible.

Hali, Allen, DJ, Page... every other f*cker on that defense can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.

[Dark Horse]

Mirage.

I was fooled into it, too. No one's alone.

We're absolutely horse sh*t. Most overrated DBs in the NFL, sh*tty linebackers outside of DJ and HORRIBLE DTs. Absolutely horrible.

Hali, Allen, DJ, Page... every other f*cker on that defense can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.

I wouldn't include Allen in the trash

[Mecca]

Mirage.

I was fooled into it, too. No one's alone.

We're absolutely horse sh*t. Most overrated DBs in the NFL, sh*tty linebackers outside of DJ and HORRIBLE DTs. Absolutely horrible.

Hali, Allen, DJ, Page... every other f*cker on that defense can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.

We pretty much agree on this..........

Last weekend I said we should let Mitchell go and people got upset...

[morphius]

I posted this in chat, but hey. When we play a bad O, we seem to go into almost a prevent D waiting for them to make a mistake. The problem is that when we do that we are forgetting that the other team is still made of pro's and the reason that they make so many mistakes is because other teams force them to do it. Which is a lot different then just staying back waiting for something to happen. We did the same thing with the Cards and the Steelers, and are making the same mistakes today.

[RealSNR]

We pretty much agree on this..........

Last weekend I said we should let Mitchell go and people got upset...We need to clean house at defensive tackle and Bell's position before we worry about MLB, IMO.

[CupidStunt]

I wouldn't include Allen in the trash

:hmmm:

I didn't.

Allen+
Page+
Hali+
DJ+

[htismaqe]

ROFL

Mitchell gave up one big play all day. Let's throw him under the bus.

This place has been taken over by retards.

[milkman]

This defnse needs one thing most of all.

An infusion of intelligence at the top.

After that, DT is a must.

[boogblaster]

D was on the field all day..mistakes will be made..and yes DJs return would help....

[Deberg_1990]

Its a bend but dont break defense. They give up 13 points two weeks in a row and we call that bad???

I would have killed for this defense from 02-04

[milkman]

Its a bend but dont break defense. They give up 13 points two weeks in a row and we call that bad???

I would have killed for this defense from 02-04

We are bending, but not breaking against bad offenses.

What's going to happen when we come up against an NFL calibre offense?

[the Talking Can]

this D is jeckyll and hyde..for two weeks: lazy in the first half, shut down in the second...

bottom line: 13 points for two straight weeks


but.....it sure seems like we miss a lot of tackles....we clearly miss DJ, and we need a disruptive DT to go from a good D to a great D.....

still.....13 points

[CupidStunt]

We are bending, but not breaking against bad offenses.

What's going to happen when we come up against an NFL calibre offense?

Dammit, that was my point. Nice one.

As milkman said, the only reason - one and ONLY reason - we've held our last two opponents to 13 each is because they suck.

[TrickyNicky]

Bell didn't play badly today. I seem to remember him actually having a TFL in the second half. Pro Bowl!

[Deberg_1990]

We are bending, but not breaking against bad offenses.

What's going to happen when we come up against an NFL calibre offense?


Im not saying they are perfect. We still have holes, but its decent. They stiffen up when they need to. We used to give up big plays to bad offenses in the DV era. At least we dont do that anymore.

[milkman]

Im not saying they are perfect. We still have holes, but its decent. They stiffen up when they need to. We used to give up big plays to bad offenses in the DV era. At least we dont do that anymore.

I know that there is some improvement, but there is still a hell of a long way to go.

We still can't stop 3rd and long, and that will kill us.

The Raider offense has been pathetic all season, yet they looked like they belonged in the NFL today.

[eazyb81]

This defnse needs one thing most of all.

An infusion of intelligence at the top.

After that, DT is a must.


Bingo.

This defense is going to continue to be mediocre until we replace Gunther with a capable D-coordinator.

[the Talking Can]

The Raider offense has been pathetic all season, yet they looked like they belonged in the NFL today.


that's our DTs....they have hit a ceiling...we really really need to acquire a disruptive DT next year some how

[Deberg_1990]

We still can't stop 3rd and long, and that will kill us.

The Raider offense has been pathetic all season, yet they looked like they belonged in the NFL today.

Yes, it Pissed me off too....but they are still professionals...it happens.

I mentioned it in the other thread....Brooks did a nice job of evading the pass rush and got off some decent throws on 3rd down. It happens....


Middle of the D-line is horrible....i watched them all day and it doesnt matter who is in there, they get zero rush. Only rush comes from the outside ends and if the QB can slip around them like Brooks did then bad things will happen a few times, like what happened today.

[Lonewolf Ed]

I know that there is some improvement, but there is still a hell of a long way to go.

We still can't stop 3rd and long, and that will kill us.

The Raider offense has been pathetic all season, yet they looked like they belonged in the NFL today.

Nor can they stop a TD reception made by someone running along the back of the endzone after a play-fake on whatever-down-and-goal. I think I saw it once this season, but no more than that. I honestly thought KC would have gotten some sacks today, not just a consolation sack when the dumbass ran out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage. Granted, I do like to see an opposing QB run out of bounds for a loss. :)

[OctoberFart]

Why the drop in production? Did we just decide to play like shit? Is Derrick Johnson's absense that gashing? WTF?

I want some answers
They looked at helmet and into the stands and saw the KC logo and red colors. Sperm edwards had them seeing black and white.

[milkman]

They looked at helmet and into the stands and saw the KC logo and red colors. Sperm edwards had them seeing black and white.

Hahahaha!

Sperm Edwards.

I see what you did there.

Sperm rhymes with Herm.

I bet your the smartest inmate in the cell block.

[Rain Man]

Our pass rush has been gone for the past couple of weeks. Is it the fact that two pass-rushing defensive ends are more than twice as good as one? I know that Hali played today, but he still doesn't look like he did before the injury.

[Halfcan]

Part of the problem was only rushing 4 guys all day. When we did get to brooks, we didn't wrap him up.

[Sure-Oz]

We don't have DT's that give us a push for a pass rush, that is the problem, the CB's can only cover for so long.

[CupidStunt]

Part of the problem was only rushing 4 guys all day. When we did get to brooks, we didn't wrap him up.

We blitzed plenty.

[Rain Man]

Patrick Surtain must've had the worst day of his career, too. He was giving up passes like crazy, had an offsides penalty, and missed a free sack on a corner blitz. There were times when his guy caught passes 10 yards away from him. Hopefully he's going to turn that around.

[Boyceofsummer]

Its a bend but dont break defense. They give up 13 points two weeks in a row and we call that bad???

I would have killed for this defense from 02-04

NO KIDDING! The Raiders offensive line did a good job & Brooks and our whiffs helped them avoid sacks. They brought there A game until that last play. 4 chances from the 10 and Brooks.......................... ROFL

[Mr. Laz]

We blitzed plenty.

no we didn't ..... we blitzed barely.


4 man rush, cover 2 zone umbrella behind was the main course of the day.

[morphius]

We blitzed plenty.
I think a delayed blitz would have worked almost every time on third and long, only we didn't even try it.

[thedude]

Anyone think having the worst offense might have just a little tiny bit to due with the fact that Walter was starting all season?

This was one of Brooks first full games in a while. He's not a horrible quarterback, but hes not great. He has always been a guy that puts up yards and points, but the INT was more characteristic of his style.

Get off the defense. They played fine. Two second half shutouts in consecutive weeks. Everyone needs to realize we are not the Bears on defense, we don't have the talent to be. But we do have a defense that can make the big play when needed, and can get some three and outs every once in awhile. Also remember, Surtain had two penalties on third downs that gave the Raiders a first down.

I'd grade them out at B-. They played well, shut down the Raiders at critical points, and made the big interception. It's definitely not worthy of the frantic comments made by some.

We did what we needed to do. We avoided more injuries played solid ball and got the win.

We'll talk again Thursday night.

[the Talking Can]

Anyone think having the worst offense might have just a little tiny bit to due with the fact that Walter was starting all season?

This was one of Brooks first full games in a while. He's not a horrible quarterback, but hes not great. He has always been a guy that puts up yards and points, but the INT was more characteristic of his style.

Get off the defense. They played fine. Two second half shutouts in consecutive weeks. Everyone needs to realize we are not the Bears on defense, we don't have the talent to be. But we do have a defense that can make the big play when needed, and can get some three and outs every once in awhile. Also remember, Surtain had two penalties on third downs that gave the Raiders a first down.

I'd grade them out at B-. They played well, shut down the Raiders at critical points, and made the big interception. It's definitely not worthy of the frantic comments made by some.

We did what we needed to do. We avoided more injuries played solid ball and got the win.

We'll talk again Thursday night.

nice post

I agree about the talent...we can make plays, but we can't consistently dominate with our weak DTs....

[QuikSsurfer]

Moss - ZERO catches

[beer bacon]

Moss - ZERO catches

Moss - ZERO effort

[Mecca]

ROFL

Mitchell gave up one big play all day. Let's throw him under the bus.

This place has been taken over by retards.

He does it every week......whiffs on tackles...it's always something. His contract is up after this year and if you think you can have a championship caliber defense with a bottom tier MLB more power to you I don't.....

Mitchell is below #20 when it comes to MLB's in this league....

[milkman]

He does it every week......whiffs on tackles...it's always something. His contract is up after this year and if you think you can have a championship caliber defense with a bottom tier MLB more power to you I don't.....

Mitchell is below #20 when it comes to MLB's in this league....

I agree with Mecca.

Kawicka isn't a terrible MLB, but he hasn't progressed and raised his play from last season.

For right now, he isn't a weak link, but neither is a player that makes plays.

And he does miss some opportunities to make some big plays.

[Fish]

He does it every week......whiffs on tackles...it's always something. His contract is up after this year and if you think you can have a championship caliber defense with a bottom tier MLB more power to you I don't.....

Mitchell is below #20 when it comes to MLB's in this league....

Yeah... he's only our leading tackler and all.... :rolleyes:

[Mecca]

Yeah... he's only our leading tackler and all.... :rolleyes:

Yea and Mike Maslowski has the Chiefs single season tackle record.....someone has to make the tackles doesn't always mean they're good.

Compare him to the players in the rest of the league that play his position and see how he stacks up.

[Fish]

Yea and Mike Mazlowski has the Chiefs single season tackle record.....someone has to make the tackles doesn't always mean they're good.

Compare him to the players in the rest of the league that play his position and see how he stacks up.

Kawika Mitchell 44 Tkls. 18 Asst. 62 Total

Ray Lewis 51 Tkls. 14 Asst. 62 Total

Al Wilson 55 Tkls. 13 Asst. 68 Total

Donnie Edwards 52 Tkls. 20 Asst. 72 Total


Yeah..... huge difference.....

Keep f*cking doubting Kawika.....

[Thig Lyfe]

We REALLY need DJ back. For serious.

[Mecca]

Kawika Mitchell 44 Tkls. 18 Asst. 62 Total

Ray Lewis 51 Tkls. 14 Asst. 62 Total

Al Wilson 55 Tkls. 13 Asst. 68 Total

Donnie Edwards 52 Tkls. 20 Asst. 72 Total


Yeah..... huge difference.....

Keep f*cking doubting Kawika.....

You think Mitchell is abouve #20 at the position in the league? He's a bottom tier MLB and he's been around long enough at this point that he is what he is he's likely to not get much better.......and to me that isn't good enough.

[Fish]

.......and to me that isn't good enough.

How would it ever be good enough for you?

[beer bacon]

You think Mitchell is abouve #20 at the position in the league? He's a bottom tier MLB and he's been around long enough at this point that he is what he is he's likely to not get much better.......and to me that isn't good enough.

Eh, he was an above average MLB last season. He has been pretty average this season, but I think he can definately return to being a good MLB.

[Mecca]

How would it ever be good enough for you?

Kawika Mitchell is not a good enough LB for this defense to be as good as it needs to be....

Just like there are a bunch of other guys on this team not good enough also, just because he doesn't suck as bad as some of the other ones doesn't mean he's good enough.

[beer bacon]

So uhhhh, after today our shitty defense should be something like 12th in the NFL in scoring defense.

[Calcountry]

I posted this in chat, but hey. When we play a bad O, we seem to go into almost a prevent D waiting for them to make a mistake. The problem is that when we do that we are forgetting that the other team is still made of pro's and the reason that they make so many mistakes is because other teams force them to do it. Which is a lot different then just staying back waiting for something to happen. We did the same thing with the Cards and the Steelers, and are making the same mistakes today.I think they all thought the Raiders would just lay down.

[Hammock Parties]

The D is now giving up 18.1 points per game. HUGE improvement.

[DaWolf]

First of all Gunther should go back to being a linebackers coach. He is horribly overrated as a DC and hasn't coordinated an excellent defense in, what, almost 10 years? We need someone who actually has a plan and can scheme. With Gun every year it is an excuse. Well these are his players, and he was the one who wanted to keep Bell. He is the one who for some reason is keeping Hicks around. He is the one who had three years to find someone to give us a push in the middle and didn't. Thankfully we've played some pretty bad O's this year and Herm has had to try to kill Larry Johnson in an effort to give the defense "rest." Translation: our D isn't good enough to get the other guys off the field so our O needs to try and keep them off the field.

Second of all, yeah, we need that force in the middle.

Now, all that being said, and after all my ripping of Gunther as the wrong hire, he has 6 games, the stretch run, to win this thing and get us in the playoffs. His D should be peaking now. If he isn't going to get us to play well at this point in the season, he never will...

[Spokane Chief Fan]

What I am tired of seeing is the linebackers waitting in the hole instead of attacking. They get knocked back 2 to 3 yards everytime. Anyone else agree?

[Saleenman607]

Mentioned it here last year and I'll say it again.......This defense does not TACKLE very good. It's a shame too, because the scheme seems to work occasionally. When the opposing co-ordinater makes his adjustments, we don't respond in kind......this, plus POOR tackling = so so defense. BTW, to me, the only way to rate the quality of one's defense is points allowed...period

[Megbert]

14th in the league overall comparing this to last years D I'd say they have improved. In fact most people on the board at the beginning of the year would be happy with the 14th ranked D heading into week 11.

[beer bacon]

What I am tired of seeing is the linebackers waitting in the hole instead of attacking. They get knocked back 2 to 3 yards everytime. Anyone else agree?

This is where my miss DJ the most. He makes a lot of plays behind the LoS or right around it.

[Bob Dole]

What I am tired of seeing is the linebackers waitting in the hole instead of attacking. They get knocked back 2 to 3 yards everytime. Anyone else agree?

Bob Dole posted it a couple of times in the game thread: our D-line was getting knocked 3 yards off the ball for most of the game, and even when we had the gaps plugged, the Oakland RB was falling forward for 4-5 yards.

Also, as Bob Dole raged as it happened, Mike Solari's idiotic passing on 3rd and 2 on the second and third possessions (even thouhg LJ was averaging well over 2 YPC) put our defense on the field for nearly 21 minutes in the first half. The guys were simply tired.

[beer bacon]

Mentioned it here last year and I'll say it again.......This defense does not TACKLE very good. It's a shame too, because the scheme seems to work occasionally. When the opposing co-ordinater makes his adjustments, we don't respond in kind......this, plus POOR tackling = so so defense. BTW, to me, the only way to rate the quality of one's defense is points allowed...period

I don't agree with the whole thing about our defense getting beat by adjustments. This season, by my quick calculation, we have given up 121 points in the first half of games and 74 in the second. That doesn't sound like our defense is being outdone by adjustments. It suggests the opposite.

[kcxiv]

damn, dont give up a score in the 2nd half for 2 games in a row, and the D sucks. Wow.

[htismaqe]

I agree with Mecca.

Kawicka isn't a terrible MLB, but he hasn't progressed and raised his play from last season.

For right now, he isn't a weak link, but neither is a player that makes plays.

And he does miss some opportunities to make some big plays.

Come on, milk, you're smarter than this.

He hasn't raised his play because his role in this cover 2 defense is NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENT from what Gunther wanted him to do -- which happens to be different than what Greg Robinson wanted him to do.

The guy is solid against the run and getting better every week.

I've seen Derrick Johnson miss opportunities, too. Does he suck?

[Bob Dole]

I've seen Derrick Johnson miss opportunities, too. Does he suck?

Depends on who you talk to in Austin.

[Halfcan]

If the D gives up 17 points or less, we should win-It has been on our crappy offense. Jeez when you go 5 straight 3 and outs-the D isn't even getting a break.

[milkman]

Come on, milk, you're smarter than this.

He hasn't raised his play because his role in this cover 2 defense is NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENT from what Gunther wanted him to do -- which happens to be different than what Greg Robinson wanted him to do.

The guy is solid against the run and getting better every week.

I've seen Derrick Johnson miss opportunities, too. Does he suck?

I'm not saying he sucks.

I'm just saying that Mecca's point isn't without some merit, and we as a community tend to pile on people when they are wrong.

I just feel that we should acknowledge when we think they aren't completely off base.

[Mecca]

I'm not saying he sucks.

I'm just saying that Mecca's point isn't without some merit, and we as a community tend to pile on people when they are wrong.

I just feel that we should acknowledge when we think they aren't completely off base.

And I never said I think he totally sucks, I said he's a bottom tier starting MLB and when you look at the rest of the MLB's in the league...he is. I don't think you have a top 5 defense or a defense that gets you to a Superbowl with a MLB in the bottom tier.

That under 17 thing isn't gonna hold up anymore this offense isn't nearly as good as it was and likely won't be for a very long time.

[CupidStunt]

Mitchell definitely isn't a strong link, but he's also far from the weakest - that's why I cut him slack.

Our DTs, Bell and our corners have hurt the defense more with their (mostly) shitty play.

[ARROW2]

Hey, we are giving up 14.3 in our last three games.......

[the Talking Can]

Mitchell definitely isn't a strong link, but he's also far from the weakest - that's why I cut him slack.

Our DTs, Bell and our corners have hurt the defense more with their (mostly) shitty play.

ditto

we need a DT more than we need a new MLB...Mitchell in inconsistent but I don't think there are 20 better starting MLB as mecca claims....that would be an interesting list, but I'm lazy....hint hint...

[58-4ever]

I don't think the play of our corners has been all that bad. Torry Holt, Chad Johnson, Randy Moss? Those guys didn't do anything against the Chiefs. Well, Randy hasn't done anything against anyone.


But, my point is that corner is far from being a weakness. They are both physical tacklers, and that has made a difference.

[TEX]

UM...Maybe Ryan Sims should play more? :drool:

[milkman]

And I never said I think he totally sucks, I said he's a bottom tier starting MLB and when you look at the rest of the MLB's in the league...he is. I don't think you have a top 5 defense or a defense that gets you to a Superbowl with a MLB in the bottom tier.

That under 17 thing isn't gonna hold up anymore this offense isn't nearly as good as it was and likely won't be for a very long time.

The fact that you didn't say he totally sucks is why I think your point isn't without merit.

I don't know that I'd say he's among the bottom 17 MLBs in the league, but don't I think he's a top 10.

13-14-15 area.