Self, KU agree to extension

[Lzen]

Published Thursday, November 30, 2006

New five-year deal pays coach $1.6 million a year
By Kevin Haskin
The Capital-Journal

LAWRENCE -- The University of Kansas announced today that it has signed basketball coach Bill Self to a five-year contract extension.

The package is worth $1.6 million annually if Self remains at Kansas for the length of the deal, which expires following the 2010-11 season.

The agreement was finalized this month but is retroactive to April 2006.

Self was in the fourth year of his original five-year contract at KU, which paid approximately $1.1 million a year. It also included a retention clause worth $1.1 million, which Self will be paid if he remains as KU's coach through next season.

"I want Bill to be our head basketball coach," KU athletic director Lew Perkins said. "I would not say there was a sense of urgency, but I did want to tie him up as our coach. Plus, he deserved it. I don't think there's a better coach out there."

The new contract stipulates Self receive $1,375,700 per season, though that amount will increase to $1.6 million if Self remains coach through the five-year term and fulfills a built-in retention clause.

In addition, the following incentives were included:

-- Final Four appearance: $100,000.

-- NCAA championship: $200,000.

-- Big 12 regular season championship: $50,000.

-- Big 12 Tournament championship: $25,000.

-- Associated Press coach of the year: $25,000.

Self stands 78-25 in his fourth season with the Jayhawks after a 6-1 start this season. His teams have captured two conference championships, though each of the last two NCAA Tournament appearances resulted in first-round defeats.

Kevin Haskin can be reached at (785) 295-1159 or at kevin.haskin@cjonline.com.

http://cjonline.com/stories/113006/bre_selfpact.shtml

[CoMoChief]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

[Lzen]

Heh, I hope he has to pay it back if his team loses another first round NCAA Tournament game. :shake:

[Saulbadguy]

Mangino makes more than Self!

[CoMoChief]

Mangino makes more than Self!
Really?

[ROYC75]

Mangino makes more than Self!


That's because there is more of him to feed, just look at him. :eek:

[Saulbadguy]

Really?
Yes.

[sedated]

Mangino makes more than Self!

I thought Mancow only makes 1.55

[Simplex3]

Mangino makes more than Self!
That's just wrong. Maybe it's because Mangino's grocery bills are so damn high. :shrug:

[Saulbadguy]

I thought Mancow only makes 1.55
Self only makes 1.1 guaranteed. Mangino makes 1.5 guaranteed.

[HemiEd]

March Success is not that important, he is a good recruiter.

[sedated]

"I don't think there's a better coach out there."

pfft

[Yellowbutter72]

Someone told me Rome wasn't built in a day! Bill Self knows what he is doing! Don't we all want to be paid for what we know? Don't althletes get paid more than that?

[Mr. Laz]

don't know why they did it now ... maybe so recruits would stay solid.


man-gina makes more because football brings in so much more money ......... has nothing to do with being better at his job.

[ArrowheadHawk]

i hope self stays for quite a long time

[DaneMcCloud]

March Success is not that important, he is a good recruiter.

I take that as sarcasm? LMAO

[ArrowheadHawk]

I take that as sarcasm? LMAO
if you get good enough players march will take care of itself

[Saulbadguy]

man-gina makes more because football brings in so much more money ......... has nothing to do with being better at his job.
Yep. Although, Mangino is the 4th highest paid coach in the Big XII IIRC.

Basketball is nothing compared to football in terms of money, and fanbases.

[Skip Towne]

Yep. Although, Mangino is the 4th highest paid coach in the Big XII IIRC.

Basketball is nothing compared to football in terms of money, and fanbases.
That's surprising considering the number of home football games that rarely sell out. Plus a lot of KU fans don't care about football. Where does all the money come from?

[ArrowheadHawk]

That's surprising considering the number of home football games that rarely sell out. Plus a lot of KU fans don't care about football. Where does all the money come from?
bowl games?

[DaneMcCloud]

if you get good enough players march will take care of itself

How's that been working out lately for KU? :p

Seriously, I'm kinda shocked they extended his contract. In my opinion, he hasn't proved that he can take a team to the highest level (i.e., Final Four) with his own players.

I hope this doesn't come back and bite KU in the beak.

[Mr. Laz]

That's surprising considering the number of home football games that rarely sell out. Plus a lot of KU fans don't care about football. Where does all the money come from?
i think Perkins is pretty determined to get the football program going because of the extra money it makes.

i wouldn't be at all surprised to hear of basketball money going to football.

[Saulbadguy]

That's surprising considering the number of home football games that rarely sell out. Plus a lot of KU fans don't care about football. Where does all the money come from?
I meant overall. Football is the #1 most revenue producing sport. MBB is #2.

[Skip Towne]

How's that been working out lately for KU? :p

Seriously, I'm kinda shocked they extended his contract. In my opinion, he hasn't proved that he can take a team to the highest level (i.e., Final Four) with his own players.

I hope this doesn't come back and bite KU in the beak.
Check Self's record at Tulsa and Illinois. Plus he beat KU at least twice in the Dance. Who would you rather have than Self?

[ArrowheadHawk]

How's that been working out lately for KU? :p

Seriously, I'm kinda shocked they extended his contract. In my opinion, he hasn't proved that he can take a team to the highest level (i.e., Final Four) with his own players.

I hope this doesn't come back and bite KU in the beak.
keep doubting within the next 5 years that entire perception of him will change.....beside he has won the conference 2-3 years

[Mr. Laz]

keep doubting within the next 5 years that entire perception of him will change.....beside he has won the conference 2-3 years
if he doesn't start winning some tourney games it's gonna cut into recruiting.

[BWillie]

A couple million is chump change if they have to can Self. The jury is still out on Self's abilities, but he is an above average coach. He's still young, and even a coach can learn to be better. Great Recruiter+Average X & O's = Above Average Coach still. What is Jacque Vaughn doing these days? When he's done in the NBA, which will be soon, I think he would make a great coach. Bring him in to do something, he can do what Manning does or something.

[T-post Tom]

How's that been working out lately for KU? :p

Seriously, I'm kinda shocked they extended his contract. In my opinion, he hasn't proved that he can take a team to the highest level (i.e., Final Four) with his own players.

I hope this doesn't come back and bite KU in the beak.

Sounds like sour grapes from an MU fan to me. Self is easily among the top five coaches in the NCAA.

[Skip Towne]

bowl games?
Haha

[banyon]

I don't know why people treat these extensions seriously.

Coaches at major college programs basically have to be signed for 5 years so that their opponent's can't hit the recruiting trail and say "You're going to go to a school where you don't even know who the coach will be when you're a junior/senior?"

This stuff is becoming standard.

[DaneMcCloud]

keep doubting within the next 5 years that entire perception of him will change.....beside he has won the conference 2-3 years

I'm only doubting because he hasn't proved that he can take HIS kids past the first round of the NCAA's. I know he took Roy's kids to the Elite 8 but IMO, he hasn't warranted a contract extension. I'm basing my opinion on fact, not speculation.

Check Self's record at Tulsa and Illinois. Plus he beat KU at least twice in the Dance. Who would you rather have than Self?

I clearly remember Self's run at both Tulsa and Illinois. But only one Bill Self led team beat the Jayhawks in the NCAA's, and that was in 2001.

As to who I would want? No idea. I don't follow college basketball much outside of KU and tourney time. I just hope this guy can step it up a notch or two. And soon.

[DaneMcCloud]

Sounds like sour grapes from an MU fan to me. Self is easily among the top five coaches in the NCAA.

Wrong-O. Went to KU. My cousins on my Mom's side all went to MU so we all had a "good time" watching the games when I lived in KC.

[Saulbadguy]

Self is easily among the top five coaches in the NCAA.
LMAO LMAO LMAO

[Mr. Laz]

Sounds like sour grapes from an MU fan to me. Self is easily among the top five coaches in the NCAA.
he might be .......... but i don't know how you can say "easily"


full time beaker here, and he has yet to get any player at KU to their max potiential except for Christian Moody imo.


will he? i sure as heck hope so.


but in reality the jury is still out.

[DJJasonp]

Im not so sure I would have given that extension until the round of 16 in this year's tourney (and thats only IF we were still around).

Looks like the alumni are pretty happy with the Florida win!

[Skip Towne]

I meant overall. Football is the #1 most revenue producing sport. MBB is #2.
I can't believe that is true at KU.

[DJJasonp]

I can't believe that is true at KU.

But that's due to bowl-game revenue-sharing for the conference I think...

[Skip Towne]

But only one Bill Self led team beat the Jayhawks in the NCAA's, and that was in 2001.


Who knocked us out of the tourney in 1999?

[leviw]

Who knocked us out of the tourney in 1999?

Kentucky.

[Skip Towne]

Kentucky.
Where did you find that?

[DaneMcCloud]

1991 Finals Duke
1992 2nd round UTEP
1993 Final Four NC
1994 3rd round Purdue
1995 3rd round Virginia
1996 1st round New Mexico
1997 3rd round Arizona
1998 2nd round rhode island
1998 2nd round Kentucky
2000 2nd round Duke
2001 3rd Illinois
2002 Final 4 Maryland
2003 Finals Syracuse
2004 4th round GT
2005 1st Round Bucknell
2006 1st Round Bradley

[Brock]

Sounds like sour grapes from an MU fan to me. Self is easily among the top five coaches in the NCAA.

If he is, he needs to prove it. This year.

[teedubya]

1991 Finals Duke
1993 Final Four NC
1994 3rd round Purdue
1995 3rd round Virginia
1997 3rd round Arizona
2001 3rd Illinois
2002 Final 4 Maryland
2003 Finals Syracuse

Roy kicked ass... and took names.

[Skip Towne]

If he is, he needs to prove it. This year.
I wish he would scrap the Hi-Lo. With all the depth he has he could run most teams out of the gym. He certainly shouldn't be losing to mid-majors like he's done 3 times recently.

[Bearcat]

In my opinion, he hasn't proved that he can take a team to the highest level (i.e., Final Four) with his own players.


I seriously hope you don't think he should have proven it by now...

I agree with whoever said it's just a recruiting tool, anyway.

[Tactical Funky]

bowl games?
LMAO







:crybaby:

[DaneMcCloud]

I seriously hope you don't think he should have proven it by now...

Um, yeah I do. He should have proven it by now, especially with a 3 and a 4 seed. But instead, his teams got bounced in the first round by Mid-Major's. How he's been able to parlay that into a 5 year extension at over 1.3 million per year is beyond me.

If you're too young to remember, Roy Williams took a team to the Finals in only his third year with unspectacular players. I expected Bill Self to be much further along with his NCAA resume considering that Roy took over a team that had problems with the NCAA in his first year, yet he was in the finals by his third.

Self needs to prove he can win past the first round, especially with a 2 and a 3 seed.

[KCChiefsMan]

thats ridiculous! he needs to win at least 1 freaking march madness game before he gets an extension. If we lose early again this year then what? horrible decision, Self should be fired if we dont at least go to the sweet 16 this year. :cuss: :banghead:

[Bearcat]

I'm only doubting because he hasn't proved that he can take HIS kids past the first round of the NCAA's. I know he took Roy's kids to the Elite 8...

Um, yeah I do. He should have proven it by now, especially with a 3 and a 4 seed. But instead, his teams got bounced in the first round by Mid-Major's. How he's been able to parlay that into a 5 year extension at over 1.3 million per year is beyond me.

If you're too young to remember, Roy Williams took a team to the Finals in only his third year with unspectacular players. I expected Bill Self to be much further along with his NCAA resume considering that Roy took over a team that had problems with the NCAA in his first year, yet he was in the finals by his third.

Self needs to prove he can win past the first round, especially with a 2 and a 3 seed.
If we're talking about Self's kids, then we aren't talking about Bucknell.. that team, especially Roy's seniors, had issues, and that team lost 5 of their last 8 and probably shouldn't have been a 3 to begin with. Criticizing him for losing in the first round two years in a row as a top 4 seed isn't fair, IMO.

Don't get me wrong... I was a HUGE Self critic when he was hired because he said he was going to change his strategy because he was in the Big 12 now and the Big 12 runs, blah blah blah... and then we go to the hi-low crap out of the gate.... he forced a style on a team that wasn't suited for it, and they had major identity problems.

But, Kansas has to give him a chance, and if that means letting recruits know he's going to be there when they graduate, so be it. For two years I've thought this was the year he needs to prove himself, so my own expectations are pretty high.

edit... and on that note, Roy's teams will always be entertaining, but after watching UNC/OSU the other night I think I've gained an appreciation for what Self has done... this "defense" thing has kind of grown on me.

[leviw]

thats ridiculous! he needs to win at least 1 freaking march madness game before he gets an extension. If we lose early again this year then what? horrible decision, Self should be fired if we dont at least go to the sweet 16 this year. :cuss: :banghead:

Why do people continually forget KU was an overtime loss away from being in the Final Four in his first season?

Gain some perspective.

[DaneMcCloud]

If we're talking about Self's kids, then we aren't talking about Bucknell.. that team, especially Roy's seniors, had issues, and that team lost 5 of their last 8 and probably shouldn't have been a 3 to begin with. Criticizing him for losing in the first round two years in a row as a top 4 seed isn't fair, IMO.

Dude, do you even understand how the seeding process works? Kansas was seeded as a number 4 - that means they're expected to make it to the Sweet 16. They got bounced in the first round! How is that not fair? We're not talking about a 10 or even a 15 seed (which should get bounced in the first round). We're talking about a 4!

Gee, sorry I'm not being *fair*. :deevee:

Getting bounced in the first round of the NCAA Tourney when you're ranked as a 3 and a 4 seed is inexcusable.

[Lzen]

1991 Finals Duke
1992 2nd round UTEP
1993 Final Four NC
1994 3rd round Purdue
1995 3rd round Virginia
1996 1st round New Mexico
1997 3rd round Arizona
1998 2nd round rhode island
1998 2nd round Kentucky
2000 2nd round Duke
2001 3rd Illinois
2002 Final 4 Maryland
2003 Finals Syracuse
2004 4th round GT
2005 1st Round Bucknell
2006 1st Round Bradley

Not sure where you got this info, but that 1996 one doesn't look right. I don't think KU lost in the first round of the NCAA tourney for something like 17 years or so when they lost to Bucknell in 05.

[Lzen]

I found it. KU lost in the Elite Eight to Syracuse in the 1996 NCAA Tournament.

[Brock]

http://www.rockchalk.com/seasons/

[Saulbadguy]

K-State lost in the first round in 1996 to New Mexico.

[Bearcat]

Dude, do you even understand how the seeding process works? Kansas was seeded as a number 4 - that means they're expected to make it to the Sweet 16. They got bounced in the first round! How is that not fair? We're not talking about a 10 or even a 15 seed (which should get bounced in the first round). We're talking about a 4!

Gee, sorry I'm not being *fair*. :deevee:

Getting bounced in the first round of the NCAA Tourney when you're ranked as a 3 and a 4 seed is inexcusable.

Bill Self's group of freshman, lead by the powerful on-court senior leadership of Christian Moody and Jeff Hawkins, loses in the first round to a team that went on and beat a #5 seed in the second round, and it's inexcusable :rolleyes:

How people are still blind to parity is beyond me. Let's recap 2006.... A #6 seed won the Super Bowl, a #11 seed made the Final Four, a #8 seed made the Stanley Cup Finals, and a wild card team barely over .500 won the World Series.

They won the Big 12 last year, beating a team that had kicked their collective ass a couple of weeks before, and then probably got a little full of themselves. It's not a travesty... sh*t happens.

[DaneMcCloud]

Not sure where you got this info, but that 1996 one doesn't look right. I don't think KU lost in the first round of the NCAA tourney for something like 17 years or so when they lost to Bucknell in 05.

Ah, my bad. I got the info from CBS Sportsline but used the find feature under each year. I started current and went backward. I guess I got lazy.

Thanks for the save.

[DaneMcCloud]

Bill Self's group of freshman, lead by the powerful on-court senior leadership of Christian Moody and Jeff Hawkins, loses in the first round to a team that went on and beat a #5 seed in the second round, and it's inexcusable :rolleyes:

How people are still blind to parity is beyond me. Let's recap 2006.... A #6 seed won the Super Bowl, a #11 seed made the Final Four, a #8 seed made the Stanley Cup Finals, and a wild card team barely over .500 won the World Series.

They won the Big 12 last year, beating a team that had kicked their collective ass a couple of weeks before, and then probably got a little full of themselves. It's not a travesty... sh*t happens.

Yeah, it's inexcusable. I guess you're so used to living with bad teams and no expectations that you don't have any. But I do.

If a team is seeded fourth, they damn well better make it to the Sweet 16. Period, end of discussion. If a team is seeded third, they'd better make it to the Elite Eight. Period. End of discussion.

To tolerate losing in the NCAA's and actually REWARD the coach for doing so is absolutely ridiculous. But as long as you just *hope* they can beat someone because of parity, I guess you'll be happy with Mr. First Round.

I'm not.

[CoMoChief]

I found it. KU lost in the Elite Eight to Syracuse in the 1996 NCAA Tournament.

****in John Wallace

[ArrowheadHawk]

why don't you crybabies switch allegiances and root for the f'ing tarholes, if you hate self so much then stop watching him coach, but i say F you all and I like the coach so what if we had 2 down years ( and won the big 12 in a down year) in march

[ChiefaRoo]

if you get good enough players march will take care of itself

WRONG. Great players do not a team make and teams win in the tournament.

[Skip Towne]

I'm only doubting because he hasn't proved that he can take HIS kids past the first round of the NCAA's. I know he took Roy's kids to the Elite 8 but IMO, he hasn't warranted a contract extension. I'm basing my opinion on fact, not speculation.



I clearly remember Self's run at both Tulsa and Illinois. But only one Bill Self led team beat the Jayhawks in the NCAA's, and that was in 2001.

As to who I would want? No idea. I don't follow college basketball much outside of KU and tourney time. I just hope this guy can step it up a notch or two. And soon.
I found the other time Self beat KU while at Illinois. It was Dec. 18, 1999 in Chicago. They won 84-70.

[the Talking Can]

good news

resigning Self is a no brainer....as in, you'd have to have no brain to be upset about it....

[Lzen]

why don't you crybabies switch allegiances and root for the f'ing tarholes, if you hate self so much then stop watching him coach, but i say F you all and I like the coach so what if we had 2 down years ( and won the big 12 in a down year) in march

I have been a KU fan since I started watching hoops when I was a kid. I've been supportive of Self because I know he's been building a different style team from the one that was here when he was hired. Still, 2 years in a row and 2 first round exits are unacceptable. I will still support the coach for now. But if KU doesn't get to the Sweet Sixteen at the very least, I'll be calling for his firing. Of course, with the talent on this team, I see no reason why they can't make the Final Four. See, that's the rub. At KU, just winning the conference is great, but not enough. Getting in the NCAA tourney is great, but not enough.

[Bearcat]

Yeah, it's inexcusable. I guess you're so used to living with bad teams and no expectations that you don't have any. But I do.

If a team is seeded fourth, they damn well better make it to the Sweet 16. Period, end of discussion. If a team is seeded third, they'd better make it to the Elite Eight. Period. End of discussion.

To tolerate losing in the NCAA's and actually REWARD the coach for doing so is absolutely ridiculous. But as long as you just *hope* they can beat someone because of parity, I guess you'll be happy with Mr. First Round.

I'm not.

fwiw, I was a Kansas fan growing up through the Roy Williams era, and through the Marty era with the Chiefs, and am also an Avalanche fan... so I know what it's like to have high expectations. And like I said before, I have high expectations for the Jayhawks this year, now that he's actually had some time with his own players.

As far as expectations for college sports, mine are much less than what they are for pro sports. Yes, the players are there to play basketball and are paid in scholarships to do so, but they're still 18-22 year olds playing other college kids... maybe that sounds like I'm babying them or whatever, but it's reality. High school kids need to know they're going to not wake up one day and go from a Roy Williams to a Bill Self, and the current kids need to know they aren't under so much pressure that their coach could be fired if they don't make it to the Final Four. And at the end of the day, I don't put hundreds of dollars into Kansas like I do going to Chiefs games or buying the latest Chiefs or Avalanche jersey, so I don't really have a leg to stand on when it comes to demanding things getting done :shrug:

Self has done a good job since being here, and from what Lzen said, has had to build a entirely different style at Kansas. If his contract makes him the highest paid coach in college basketball, maybe it's undeserved, but I in terms of contract years, I don't see a problem.

[sedated]

I wish he would scrap the Hi-Lo. With all the depth he has he could run most teams out of the gym. He certainly shouldn't be losing to mid-majors like he's done 3 times recently.

he doesn't use it as much as he did in his first 2 seasons, they've been running this year.

but with a guy like Julian Wright at the point forward, the hi-lo can actually work

[leviw]

I'm only doubting because he hasn't proved that he can take HIS kids past the first round of the NCAA's. I know he took Roy's kids to the Elite 8 but IMO, he hasn't warranted a contract extension. I'm basing my opinion on fact, not speculation.

I clearly remember Self's run at both Tulsa and Illinois. But only one Bill Self led team beat the Jayhawks in the NCAA's, and that was in 2001.

As to who I would want? No idea. I don't follow college basketball much outside of KU and tourney time. I just hope this guy can step it up a notch or two. And soon.

That's becoming more and more obvious with every post. So you're saying you wouldn't give Self an extension because he hasn't advanced past the first round with his own players, right?

So basically you're faulting him for last season, which he took all freshmen and sophomores to a Big 12 Championship and Tournament Championship, then lost in the first round of the NCAAs. Right?

Because if you're not counting his first season, in which they went to the Elite 8, then you can't use 2004-2005, because that was a team made up of Simien, Langford, Miles and Lee, which were all Roy's boys.

Furthermore, find me one year --just one-- where the NCAA Tournament advanced all one, two, three and four seeds to the Sweet 16. How it's "supposed" to work is never how it really works.

Don't be ignorant.

[DaneMcCloud]

That's becoming more and more obvious with every post. So you're saying you wouldn't give Self an extension because he hasn't advanced past the first round with his own players, right?

So basically you're faulting him for last season, which he took all freshmen and sophomores to a Big 12 Championship and Tournament Championship, then lost in the first round of the NCAAs. Right?

Because if you're not counting his first season, in which they went to the Elite 8, then you can't use 2004-2005, because that was a team made up of Simien, Langford, Miles and Lee, which were all Roy's boys.

Furthermore, find me one year --just one-- where the NCAA Tournament advanced all one, two, three and four seeds to the Sweet 16. How it's "supposed" to work is never how it really works.

Don't be ignorant.

Obviously, you can't read. I said I don't follow college basketball much, outside of KU and the NCAA Tournament. I didn't say I didn't follow it all.

I'm not "faulting" him for last season - I'm "faulting" him for the past two seasons. I think it's unacceptable for KU to lose in the first round, two years in a row to Mid-Major teams. If KU was seeded 10-16 and lost those games, I'd have no problem with it, whatsoever. But they were seeded as a three and a four and lost in the first round. Unacceptable. And that blame lies squarely with the coach.

You can justify it anyway you want - say that it's *How it's "supposed" to work is never how it really works.* or make up some other lame excuse. The bottom line is that Self's teams have not lived up to their expectations.

Seriously, I can't understand why anyone would defend Self when it's so clear that his teams have underperformed.

[HemiEd]

I take that as sarcasm? LMAO


Yep, I like the Jayhawks, but Self has not shown me much. IMO he could not carry Roy Williams golf bag.

[the Talking Can]

Obviously, you can't read. I said I don't follow college basketball much, outside of KU and the NCAA Tournament. I didn't say I didn't follow it all.

I'm not "faulting" him for last season - I'm "faulting" him for the past two seasons. I think it's unacceptable for KU to lose in the first round, two years in a row to Mid-Major teams. If KU was seeded 10-16 and lost those games, I'd have no problem with it, whatsoever. But they were seeded as a three and a four and lost in the first round. Unacceptable. And that blame lies squarely with the coach.

You can justify it anyway you want - say that it's *How it's "supposed" to work is never how it really works.* or make up some other lame excuse. The bottom line is that Self's teams have not lived up to their expectations.

Seriously, I can't understand why anyone would defend Self when it's so clear that his teams have underperformed.

Self ran through the Big 12 and Tourny last year with FRESHMAN, was named coach of the year in the league...and you think he underperformed?..so the freshman crapped their drawers in March, so what? We just beat last years Champ and now you want to fire the coach..

His coaching last year was awesome...did you see their development? you ungrateful fuktard....there are some dumb as sin KU fans on this board, I suspect they are really MU fans in disguise

[Skip Towne]

he doesn't use it as much as he did in his first 2 seasons, they've been running this year.

but with a guy like Julian Wright at the point forward, the hi-lo can actually work
If you have the other team far out manned, why would you use the Hi-lo to let them rest? Self has lost to three mid majors in two years. He could have run all of them out of the gym.

[DaneMcCloud]

Self ran through the Big 12 and Tourny last year with FRESHMAN, was named coach of the year in the league...and you think he underperformed?..so the freshman crapped their drawers in March, so what? We just beat last years Champ and now you want to fire the coach..

His coaching last year was awesome...did you see their development? you ungrateful fuktard....there are some dumb as sin KU fans on this board, I suspect they are really MU fans in disguise

Point out to me where I said he should be fired? Earlier in the thread, I said that I was shocked that he got an extension, but I NEVER said he should be fired, nor did I call for his firing.

And PLEASE explain to me, oh so knowledgeable one, how being seeded as a THREE and a FOUR in the NCAA tournament but losing in the first round to Mid-Majors can be considered to be ANYTHING other than underperforming? Was that a great display of coaching, losing but really winning? Explain it to me!

And how about reading the whole thread next time before jumping in with uninformed criticism?

[Eleazar]

Hmm. I don't know how I would feel about this if I were a KU fan.

He's winning in the regular season. Certainly, the program is making tons of money. He's won a few conference titles. And I think he generally has the fans on his side; at least, he's not at the Marty level yet where people totally disregard the regular season because of postseason disappointments when it comes to how they view his accomplishments.

Obviously since my team is in the midst of a lot of down years, some conference titles and high tourney seeds look good to me. But if that was commonplace... I think I might be wishing for someone who could do it in the postseason. I guess it's not unlike being a Chiefs fan in the mid to late 90s.

[HemiEd]

Pretty close correlation Cochise. Then add that the previous coach, pretty much got you where you wanted to go every year.

[Mr. Laz]

Hmm. I don't know how I would feel about this if I were a KU fan.

He's winning in the regular season. Certainly, the program is making tons of money. He's won a few conference titles. And I think he generally has the fans on his side; at least, he's not at the Marty level yet where people totally disregard the regular season because of postseason disappointments when it comes to how they view his accomplishments.

Obviously since my team is in the midst of a lot of down years, some conference titles and high tourney seeds look good to me. But if that was commonplace... I think I might be wishing for someone who could do it in the postseason. I guess it's not unlike being a Chiefs fan in the mid to late 90s.

my main worry is two-fold...

1. it's not like he started with an empty cupboard ... there shouldn't of been much down time for a good coach.

2. the constant "restarting" first it was because the players didn't fit his system. Then he was losing players every year which brought a constant retooling feel to the team. Now, this year he talk about how the guys don't know how to play hard and focus completely when we spent all last year learning to do that very thing.


what happens when some of these guys go pro? are we gonna be back to square one again?

we can't seem to maintain the good stuff .... and then we take 2 steps forward and 1 step back.

:shrug:


he's good ..... but how good?

[DJJasonp]

my main worry is two-fold...

1. it's not like he started with an empty cupboard ... there shouldn't of been much down time for a good coach.

2. the constant "restarting" first it was because the players didn't fit his system. Then he was losing players every year which brought a constant retooling feel to the team. Now, this year he talk about how the guys don't know how to play hard and focus completely when we spent all last year learning to do that very thing.


what happens when some of these guys go pro? are we gonna be back to square one again?

we can't seem to maintain the good stuff .... and then we take 2 steps forward and 1 step back.

:shrug:


he's good ..... but how good?

I agree with this.....and I'll also add that I'm suspicious of Self's ability to make in-game adjustments defensively/offensively.

Another thing that worries me is why the hell the players had a heated argument in the hotel the night after the Ball State game??? Are all of them that unhappy with each other or is it the offense? (I suspect its the offense)....Obviously it worked (the team meeting/argument) because we went out and beat Florida the next night....but I'm starting to wonder if Self cant handle/control his players. (see 2 years ago with Simien, Miles, Langford, etc.)

[Mr. Laz]

but I'm starting to wonder if Self cant handle/control his players. (see 2 years ago with Simien, Miles, Langford, etc.)
this having to learn the ability to focus again this year when we've got the same players would also point to an inability to really control his players or to know what button to push.

it's almost like the players have to get an embarrassing loss each year before they are convinced to listen to him. Then they end up getting complacent again after winning ... ie tourney losses.


all that points to coaching imo

[leviw]

Obviously, you can't read. I said I don't follow college basketball much, outside of KU and the NCAA Tournament. I didn't say I didn't follow it all.

I'm not "faulting" him for last season - I'm "faulting" him for the past two seasons. I think it's unacceptable for KU to lose in the first round, two years in a row to Mid-Major teams. If KU was seeded 10-16 and lost those games, I'd have no problem with it, whatsoever. But they were seeded as a three and a four and lost in the first round. Unacceptable. And that blame lies squarely with the coach.

You can justify it anyway you want - say that it's *How it's "supposed" to work is never how it really works.* or make up some other lame excuse. The bottom line is that Self's teams have not lived up to their expectations.

Seriously, I can't understand why anyone would defend Self when it's so clear that his teams have underperformed.

I cut down your statement to make it more accurate.

You're paying WAY too much attention to the seedings. George Mason made the Final Four last year, were they one of the four best teams in America?

The Tournament is geared towards upsets, so they happen. By your standards, college basketball would be better off having bowl games.

[DaneMcCloud]

I cut down your statement to make it more accurate.

You're paying WAY too much attention to the seedings. George Mason made the Final Four last year, were they one of the four best teams in America?

The Tournament is geared towards upsets, so they happen. By your standards, college basketball would be better off having bowl games.

Nice attempt at a deflection but you're way wrong here. So holding a coach accountable for two consecutive loses in the first round to Mid-Major teams is too high of a standard to meet? Are you crazy?

Why don't you give me an example of Arizona, Duke or North Carolina losing to a Mid-Major in the first round, then we can talk about how *I'm* paying way to much attention to seedings.

[leviw]

Nice attempt at a deflection but you're way wrong here. So holding a coach accountable for two consecutive loses in the first round to Mid-Major teams is too high of a standard to meet? Are you crazy?

Why don't you give me an example of Arizona, Duke or North Carolina losing to a Mid-Major in the first round, then we can talk about how *I'm* paying way to much attention to seedings.

First Round 1999:
(14) Weber State 76
(3) North Carolina 74

First Round 1996:
(9) Eastern Michigan 75
(8) Duke 60

First Round 1995:
(12) Miami (OH) 62
(5) Arizona 71

You're losing steam fast, bud.

[Bearcat]

Nice attempt at a deflection but you're way wrong here. So holding a coach accountable for two consecutive loses in the first round to Mid-Major teams is too high of a standard to meet? Are you crazy?

Why don't you give me an example of Arizona, Duke or North Carolina losing to a Mid-Major in the first round, then we can talk about how *I'm* paying way to much attention to seedings.
1992: #3 Arizona lost to #14 East Tennessee State in the first round.
1993: #2 Arizona lost to #15 Santa Clara in the first round.


Also, UNC lost to George Mason in the second round last year... that should count, too. I mean, come on, George Mason wasn't even supposed to make the tournament.

[leviw]

1992: #3 Arizona lost to #14 East Tennessee State in the first round.
1993: #2 Arizona lost to #15 Santa Clara in the first round.


Also, UNC lost to George Mason in the second round last year... that should count, too. I mean, come on, George Mason wasn't even supposed to make the tournament.

They get a pass on that, since GM went on to the Final Four.

[cmh6476]

:clap:

[DaneMcCloud]

1992: #3 Arizona lost to #14 East Tennessee State in the first round.
1993: #2 Arizona lost to #15 Santa Clara in the first round.

Good find.

But since KU lost to DePaul, don't you think that Self deserves another raise? If he keeps losing to unranked teams, he could soon be the highest paid coach in college basketball! :evil:

[KChiefs1]

The only university that overpays their coaches as much as Kansas does with Mangino & Self is Iowa who pays about $1 million dollars per win with Ferentz.

[duncan_idaho]

The only university that overpays their coaches as much as Kansas does with Mangino & Self is Iowa who pays about $1 million dollars per win with Ferentz.

That's still better than Quin Snyder's $1.5 million deal...
:banghead: :# :doh!: :spock:

[Skip Towne]

Who is the highest paid coach in college BB?

[ChiefaRoo]

Who is the highest paid coach in college BB?


Skip say something good about my shockers or I'm going to hunt you down and take your goats away.

[Skip Towne]

Skip say something good about my shockers or I'm going to hunt you down and take your goats away.
OK, I like their coach. He's a cute little guy. Was a pretty good player as well. He'd come off the bench and really speed things up.

[ChiefaRoo]

OK, I like their coach. He's a cute little guy. Was a pretty good player as well. He'd come off the bench and really speed things up.

Not too good but it's a start. :)

[sedated]

Who is the highest paid coach in college BB?

K?