Saban to Bama.

[Saulbadguy]

CONFIRMED.

[Redrum_69]

Cool...that opens the door for Vermeil to Miami....

[Hydrae]

Will Ricky come back to Miami if the coach who understands him is gone? :shrug:

[siberian khatru]

Quitter.

[Hammock Parties]

That's good...set back another AFC contender...

[Reerun_KC]

He is becoming the Larry Brown of the Football ranks...

What a stiff. So when someone comes courting him in Alabama in 3 years, is he going to leave agian?

[Saulbadguy]

Here is the link, although the site is very slow right now.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-spsaban03jan03,0,5575508.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines

The Alabama rivals board had over 7000 visitors in under 15 minutes.

[Fairplay]

I thought he would go there.

[BigChiefFan]

Saban took the guaranteed money-I can't fault him for that.

[Redrum_69]

So isnt he now the highest paid coach or in the top three at least??

[dirk digler]

I figured he would do this. He isn't a very good pro coach.

[Crush]

40 million is hard to pass up.

[Saulbadguy]

So isnt he now the highest paid coach or in the top three at least??
He's gotta be the highest, I would think. 10 year 40 million is what I saw.

[BigRedChief]

Didn't go to the meeting with the owner. Told him over the phone. Told his coaches over a speaker phone conference call.

[DaKCMan AP]

Pretty classless.

Instead of telling Huizenga face-to-face he instead doesn't show up to their scheduled meeting this morning.

While berating the media for asking any questions over the last 3 weeks and denying everything, he leaves.

Before making the decision he questions whether members of his coaching staff, who are under contract to the Dolphins and while he is still the Dolphins head coach, would leave to go with him to Alabama.

He lied to his team, his coaches, the media, the fans. Scumbag. I enjoyed it when we beat him while he was at LSU and now we'll beat him when he's at Bama.

[BigChiefFan]

He was already rumored to be making $4 million a year in Miami-it's just now he's guaranteed more years, which equals more money long-term.

[Saulbadguy]

Here is the deal, Alabama thinks it is an attractive job, when it is not. 'Bama used to get players back in the Bear Bryant days, but now they have more attractive SEC locales and coaches to deal with, and todays prospect could care less about Alabamas prestige. Sort of like Nebraska, but more extreme because Bama has alot more football schools in a close proximity to deal with than Nebraska.

Saban will do well in Alabama, he might even get a BCS berth once in awhile, but I doubt he will get them playing for a national championship anytime soon, which is what the Tide fans expect.

[JBucc]

He's an ass but he's a damn good coach. I don't look forward to facing him every year once he gets everything established. Especially after Shula was one of the few coaches that could out stupid the Nuttster.

[chagrin]

Didn't go to the meeting with the owner. Told him over the phone. Told his coaches over a speaker phone conference call.

I think he did the same thing when he left Michigan State

[htismaqe]

The way he left Miami stinks, I'll give you that.

But if anybody faults him for leaving the NFL, that's just dumb.

The ONLY reason for a successful college HC to go to the NFL is money. In the NFL, there is ZERO job security, no loyalty, and no longevity. You have precious little control and are constantly haggling with owners, GM's, and player who make more money than you do.

When Bama offered him a contract to rival anything the NFL would ever offer, he's be stupid NOT to go...

[DaKCMan AP]

The way he left Miami stinks, I'll give you that.

But if anybody faults him for leaving the NFL, that's just dumb.

The ONLY reason for a successful college HC to go to the NFL is money. In the NFL, there is ZERO job security, no loyalty, and no longevity. You have precious little control and are constantly haggling with owners, GM's, and player who make more money than you do.

When Bama offered him a contract to rival anything the NFL would ever offer, he's be stupid NOT to go...

A great, or even good, college job is MUCH better than an NFL job. I don't blame him for going back to college.

It doesn't take away from the fact that he left in a very unprofessional, chickenshit manner.

[Hound333]

I always thought he was a better college coach than NFL. He likes everything run his way. 18-22 yr olds will most likely listen. 23-36 yr old millionare's have thoughts of their own.

[Saulbadguy]

The way he left Miami stinks, I'll give you that.

But if anybody faults him for leaving the NFL, that's just dumb.

The ONLY reason for a successful college HC to go to the NFL is money. In the NFL, there is ZERO job security, no loyalty, and no longevity. You have precious little control and are constantly haggling with owners, GM's, and player who make more money than you do.

When Bama offered him a contract to rival anything the NFL would ever offer, he's be stupid NOT to go...
After seeing Denny Green and Jim Mora shitcanned, I gotta agree.

[htismaqe]

A great, or even good, college job is MUCH better than an NFL job. I don't blame him for going back to college.

It doesn't take away from the fact that he left in a very unprofessional, chickenshit manner.

I absolutely agree. I know if I were a coach faced with choosing between the NCAA and NFL, I wouldn't hesitate to take the college job.

[Kerberos]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2718488


Nick Saban has accepted an offer from Alabama to coach the Crimson Tide and left the Miami Dolphins on Wednesday, two weeks after declaring "I'm not going to be the Alabama coach."



Jeff Zelevansky/Icon SMI
Saban will return to the SEC, where he won a national championship with LSU .Saban told team owner Wayne Huizenga of his intentions via telephone and then informed all of his coaches by speakerphone that he was leaving to accept the Alabama position, a source told the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.

But as of late Wednesday morning, Saban was not yet headed to Tuscaloosa for a formal introduction.

"All indications are that he's coming, but I know they're not in the air yet," an Alabama athletic department official told ESPN.com's Mark Schlabach.


Alabama made its formal offer to Saban on Monday after rumors swirled for weeks that the Crimson Tide were pursuing the former LSU coach. The offer, believed to run from eight to 10 years, is worth $35 million to $40 million, and includes many variables, ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported Monday.


Saban had issued repeated denials that he was interested in coaching at Alabama, one of the most high-profile and high-pressure college coaching jobs in the country. He leaves the Dolphins with three years left on a deal worth approximately $4.5 million a year.


Alabama began looking for a coach after firing Mike Shula on Nov. 27. The Tide finished the season 6-7, losing to Oklahoma State in the Independence Bowl.


On Tuesday, Saban asked for and recevied more time from Dolphins owner Wayne Huizenga to make a decision.


Huizenga remained optimistic Tuesday that Saban would return to Miami, and gave him until 10 a.m. Wednesday to make a decision.


"I'm hoping he's leaning on staying," Huizenga was quoted as saying in the South Florida Sun-Sentinel. "I like Nick a lot and hope he's going to stay. I'm not upset. You just have to play this thing through."


Huizenga has said he received repeated assurances from Saban late in the season that he would return in 2007. And Saban issued frequent public denials of interest in moving to Tuscaloosa, such as on Dec. 21, when he said: "I'm not going to be the Alabama coach."

[htismaqe]

After seeing Denny Green and Jim Mora shitcanned, I gotta agree.

I feel better about the chances of keeping Ferentz now that Saban left Miami. Saban and Ferentz are good friends and I don't doubt that Saban told Ferentz that the NFL isn't all it's cracked up to be. Ferentz is already making NFL money, so the lure just isn't there.

The only job that scares me is the Steelers. That's the one job in the NFL where there IS loyalty and longevity, and it's Ferentz' home town team...

[Fish]

It doesn't take away from the fact that he left in a very unprofessional, chickenshit manner.

I agree. I don't blame him for leaving, but he could have nutted up and done it like a man.

[NewChief]

My friends poor dog. I posted this in another thread, but he's a huge LSU fan. Named his new puppy Saban the year that LSU won the title. He swore he'd have to put the dog down if Saban took the job. Hopefully they're all out of antifreeze at the store.

[KChiefsQT]

MONEY, MONEY, MONEY, MONEY, MONNNNNEY!

No suprise here.

[Kclee]

.

The ONLY reason for a successful college HC to go to the NFL is money. In the NFL, there is ZERO job security, no loyalty, and no longevity. You have precious little control and are constantly haggling with owners, GM's, and player who make more money than you do.



I heard on NFL network that your boy Kurt Ferentz turned down an interview with the Falcons. Maybe even money doesn't draw everyone to the NFL. Or do you think he's waiting for a specific team or two?

[WilliamTheIrish]

I agree that in most cases the college job is better. However, in this case, I gotta question whether that's true.

Shula went 10-2 last year and won a bowl game. This year? They hate him. Saban's honeymoon will end quickly. As it always does at Bama. The money may be guaranteed, but the patience of the average plantation fan, is not.

[Wile_E_Coyote]

After taking Culpepper over Brees, he needed to quit on them like Ricky did. Porn Stasche to Saban, must suck to be a fish fan

[bkkcoh]

..
Saban will do well in Alabama, he might even get a BCS berth once in awhile, but I doubt he will get them playing for a national championship anytime soon, which is what the Tide fans expect.

I agree that in most cases the college job is better. However, in this case, I gotta question whether that's true.

Shula went 10-2 last year and won a bowl game. This year? They hate him. Saban's honeymoon will end quickly. As it always does at Bama. The money may be guaranteed, but the patience of the average plantation fan, is not.


Nah, I think the fans of Alabame will give him atleast 2 years to win the national championship.... :p

[Baby Lee]

The ONLY reason for a successful college HC to go to the NFL is money. In the NFL, there is ZERO job security, no loyalty, and no longevity. You have precious little control and are constantly haggling with owners, GM's, and player who make more money than you do.
Yeah, and all the real actors are on Broadway, not headlining blockbusters.
College HCs who go to the NFL and then go back [especially if they leave the NFL without great success] will always have the stink of not being able to hack the big show.

[htismaqe]

I heard on NFL network that your boy Kurt Ferentz turned down an interview with the Falcons. Maybe even money doesn't draw everyone to the NFL. Or do you think he's waiting for a specific team or two?

He did turn down the Falcons. And the Dolphins are reportedly interested but he's already poo-poo'd that too.

My fear is that he's waiting to see what Cowher does.

[htismaqe]

Yeah, and all the real actors are on Broadway, not headlining blockbusters.
College HCs who go to the NFL and then go back [especially if they leave the NFL without great success] will always have the stink of not being able to hack the big show.

Unless you have a tremendous amount of luck in your first year, ala Sean Payton, there's no such thing as a college coach having great success in the NFL, because in today's NFL there's no time.

The great NFL coaches are ones that cut their teeth in the pre-salary cap era and are still around...

[WilliamTheIrish]

Ferentz is looking? That would be a tough loss.

[Brock]

Yeah, and all the real actors are on Broadway, not headlining blockbusters.
College HCs who go to the NFL and then go back [especially if they leave the NFL without great success] will always have the stink of not being able to hack the big show.

Yeah, that Pete Carroll's life sure sucks.

[dirk digler]

The way he left Miami stinks, I'll give you that.

But if anybody faults him for leaving the NFL, that's just dumb.

The ONLY reason for a successful college HC to go to the NFL is money. In the NFL, there is ZERO job security, no loyalty, and no longevity. You have precious little control and are constantly haggling with owners, GM's, and player who make more money than you do.

When Bama offered him a contract to rival anything the NFL would ever offer, he's be stupid NOT to go...

While I agree you have to remember though the NFL is an ELITE job. There is only 32 of them in the world. College coaches are a dime a dozen. He couldn't hack it in the NFL so he left.

[Hound333]

Yeah, and all the real actors are on Broadway, not headlining blockbusters.
College HCs who go to the NFL and then go back [especially if they leave the NFL without great success] will always have the stink of not being able to hack the big show.


Or they could end up like Carroll. If he starts taking them to BCS games every year his stint in the pro's won't matter.

[Brock]

College coaches are a dime a dozen.

LOL

[htismaqe]

Ferentz is looking? That would be a tough loss.

He's not looking. But they're calling.

[htismaqe]

While I agree you have to remember though the NFL is an ELITE job. There is only 32 of them in the world. College coaches are a dime a dozen. He couldn't hack it in the NFL so he left.

You're joking, right?

Obviously, top college coaches ARE NOT a dime a dozen, or Alabama wouldn't have just given Saban more money than most NFL coaches are making.

Top college coaches have their cake and can eat it too. They get the money AND they get the control.

[Baby Lee]

Yeah, that Pete Carroll's life sure sucks.
His life doesn't suck, but there is a sizable contingent of sports fans who view him as a failure on the big stage who was fortunate to find his 'niche' back on campus.
No matter what, no matter how much COLLEGE success, there will continue to exist the spectre that there are some aspects of the game, when it's played at the highest level, that Carroll just can't hack.

[Ebolapox]

I challenge ANY of you to say that you'd turn down 40 million bucks over ten years

[htismaqe]

His life doesn't suck, but there is a sizable contingent of sports fans who view him as a failure on the big stage who was fortunate to find his 'niche' back on campus.
No matter what, no matter how much COLLEGE success, there will continue to exist the spectre that there are some aspects of the game, when it's played at the highest level, that Carroll just can't hack.

And then there's the reasonable people that understand that a coach is much more directly responsible for wins and losses at the college level, where he doesn't have to take the backseat to players making millions of dollars who are obligated by contract to play for him...

[2112]

That sucks..I was hoping he would stay with the Dolphins forever..he's a horrible coach..way overrated..

[jAZ]

The Alabama rivals board had over 7000 visitors in under 15 minutes.
That's why those Rivals sites are an absolute GOLD MINE.

Hire 2 - 3 "reporters" at 30K/year to cover football and basketball at a school and get people to pay $10/month to get "premium" recruiting news.

I know the guy who runs the Arizona board. They have something like 2000 subscribers ($20k/month) and 2 reporters. They could grow to 10,000 paid subscribers ($100k/ month) like some of the bigger football schools and not need to scale your costs much.

Even the small boards like Arizona's make $50-100K per year profit.

[dirk digler]

You're joking, right?

Obviously, top college coaches ARE NOT a dime a dozen, or Alabama wouldn't have just given Saban more money than most NFL coaches are making.

Top college coaches have their cake and can eat it too. They get the money AND they get the control.

32 NFL Coaches
I am guessing but I would say there is at least 1,000+ College Head Coaches.

There is no question college coaches have cushy jobs. That is why most of them can't handle the pressure of the NFL.

[htismaqe]

His life doesn't suck, but there is a sizable contingent of sports fans who view him as a failure on the big stage who was fortunate to find his 'niche' back on campus.
No matter what, no matter how much COLLEGE success, there will continue to exist the spectre that there are some aspects of the game, when it's played at the highest level, that Carroll just can't hack.

I see you didn't address my previous post either.

As more and more college coaches fail at the NFL level, that spectre will be diminished as people start to realize that NO COLLEGE COACH, no matter how good, can build a team in a league where you have to win in 2 years or you're fired.

[bkkcoh]

It is amazing the good coaches who have been quite successful in the college ranks, but not in the pro ranks.

Just a couple of names: Lou Holtz, Pete Carroll, Jim Tressell (even though he hasn't coached at the pro level, it doesn't seem as if he is interested or rumored in the NFL),

It is definitely 2 different worlds. It is an exception if a coach experiences success at both levels, there aren't that many college and pro coaches that can say they have been national champs and superbowl champs.

[htismaqe]

32 NFL Coaches
I am guessing but I would say there is at least 1,000+ College Head Coaches.

There is no question college coaches have cushy jobs. That is why most of them can't handle the pressure of the NFL.

ROFL

I don't even know where to start with this...

[htismaqe]

It is amazing the good coaches who have been quite successful in the college ranks, but not in the pro ranks.

Just a couple of names: Lou Holtz, Pete Carroll, Jim Tressell (even though he hasn't coached at the pro level, it doesn't seem as if he is interested or rumored in the NFL),

It is definitely 2 different worlds. It is an exception if a coach experiences success at both levels, there aren't that many college and pro coaches that can say they have been national champs and superbowl champs.

Before the salary cap era, it happened all the time.

[dirk digler]

ROFL

I don't even know where to start with this...

Tell me where I am wrong.

[Chiefnj]

I see you didn't address my previous post either.

As more and more college coaches fail at the NFL level, that spectre will be diminished as people start to realize that NO COLLEGE COACH, no matter how good, can build a team in a league where you have to win in 2 years or you're fired.

Don't they have that same 2 year window in college?

[Brock]

It is amazing the good coaches who have been quite successful in the college ranks, but not in the pro ranks.

Just a couple of names: Lou Holtz, Pete Carroll, Jim Tressell (even though he hasn't coached at the pro level, it doesn't seem as if he is interested or rumored in the NFL),

It is definitely 2 different worlds. It is an exception if a coach experiences success at both levels, there aren't that many college and pro coaches that can say they have been national champs and superbowl champs.

Pete Carroll won a playoff game with the Patriots, and then took over the horrible Jets. The only reason he was let go is because Leon Hess didn't want to wait around for the team to be rebuilt and his solution to that was to replace Carroll with Rich Kotite. The notion that Carroll "couldn't hack it" in the NFL is ridiculous.

[htismaqe]

Tell me where I am wrong.

Well, for one, the fact that there's only 32 jobs has nothing to do with it. The fact that it's football at it's highest level does. If there were 119 NFL jobs, just like D-1 football, the NFL jobs would still be in demand because it's the pinnacle of American football.

Second, college jobs are anything BUT cushy. That's ridiculous.

[Baby Lee]

And then there's the reasonable people that understand that a coach is much more directly responsible for wins and losses at the college level, where he doesn't have to take the backseat to players making millions of dollars who are obligated by contract to play for him...
Passive-aggressive snark is very unbecoming htis.

Sorry for being unreasonable and failing to understand how the world works. I'll try to do better, setting my unwavering eyes on your stellar example from on high.

It's not about how directly responsible one is for the wins and losses, it's about who can hack whatever obstacles exist for competition at the highest level.

You're making the equivalent of the argument that there are go-kart leagues out there where the cars are more evenly matched than Formula-One, so some guy who washes out in F-1, but kicks ass on the go-kart circuit is empirically a better driver.

Sorry, that's not how the uninformed, unreasonable world is gonna see it.

[2112]

Pete Carroll won a playoff game with the Patriots, and then took over the horrible Jets. The only reason he was let go is because Leon Hess didn't want to wait around for the team to be rebuilt and his solution to that was to replace Carroll with Rich Kotite. The notion that Carroll "couldn't hack it" in the NFL is ridiculous.
Carroll said that himself..that he liked College Coaching more,and it was less pressure.

[Brock]

There is no question college coaches have cushy jobs. That is why most of them can't handle the pressure of the NFL.

Do you really think there is less pressure on a coach at a program like Alabama than there is in the NFL?

[htismaqe]

Don't they have that same 2 year window in college?

In general, college coaches have a 4-year window.

That's because NFL coaches have their players handed to then, while a college coach actually has to go get his.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Don't they have that same 2 year window in college?

Not at KU. The fatf*ck they hired is going on year 6 without finishing above .500 in the league and has 3 road wins. Total. His most successful season is 6-6.

And he got an extension and a raise to 1.5 mil per.

Excuse me while I chuckle.

[Baby Lee]

The notion that Carroll "couldn't hack it" in the NFL is ridiculous.
FTR, I'm not saying he couldn't hack it. I too think he got a raw deal in NY. I'm saying, however ridiculous, that notion is gonna stick with him in the mind of a sizable contingent of sports fans.

"Oh yeah, Pete Carroll, that guy who didn't do a lot in the NFL, but 'found his niche' back down in the College ranks."

[htismaqe]

Passive-aggressive snark is very unbecoming htis.

Sorry for being unreasonable and failing to understand how the world works. I'll try to do better, setting my unwavering eyes on your stellar example from on high.

It's not about how directly responsible one is for the wins and losses, it's about who can hack whatever obstacles exist for competition at the highest level.

You're making the equivalent of the argument that there are go-kart leagues out there where the cars are more evenly matched than Formula-One, so some guy who washes out in F-1, but kicks ass on the go-kart circuit is empirically a better driver.

Sorry, that's not how the uninformed, unreasonable world is gonna see it.

You don't like that tactic? I borrowed it from you.

You're only looking at it from one perspective and not considering the alternatives, that's why I said you were unreasonable.

There are obstacles in the NFL that are INSURMOUNTABLE, regardless of how good of a coach one is. That's a FACT. Don't try to pretend it's not.

Comparing the NFL to F-1 and implying that the NCAA is "go-karts" is laughable. I expected better from someone of your intellect.

[htismaqe]

FTR, I'm not saying he couldn't hack it. I too think he got a raw deal in NY. I'm saying, however ridiculous, that notion is gonna stick with him in the mind of a sizable contingent of sports fans.

"Oh yeah, Pete Carroll, that guy who didn't do a lot in the NFL, but 'found his niche' back down in the College ranks."

That sizable contingent gets smaller and smaller every day, as more and more of them realize that the deck is stacked...

[Brock]

Carroll said that himself..that he liked College Coaching more,and it was less pressure.

Who wouldn't like coaching college players more? They actually listen to what you're saying. There isn't any less pressure to win, however.

[bkkcoh]

Pete Carroll won a playoff game with the Patriots, and then took over the horrible Jets. The only reason he was let go is because Leon Hess didn't want to wait around for the team to be rebuilt and his solution to that was to replace Carroll with Rich Kotite. The notion that Carroll "couldn't hack it" in the NFL is ridiculous.

I don't think that I stated that he couldn't hack it. I think I just stated that there weren't too many coaches that have won both the super bowl and national championship.

I am not saying that coaches can't be considered successful at both levels. There are several coaches that have done that at one time or another.

The number of coaches that win the superbowl or national championships are small to begin with. But it to win both of them, it is quite an accomplishment.

[Mr. Laz]

for some reason, when i first glanced at this i thought it was a political thread. :hmmm:

[dirk digler]

Well, for one, the fact that there's only 32 jobs has nothing to do with it. The fact that it's football at it's highest level does. If there were 119 NFL jobs, just like D-1 football, the NFL jobs would still be in demand because it's the pinnacle of American football.

Second, college jobs are anything BUT cushy. That's ridiculous.

Good point.

Some colleges do have alot of pressure to succeed,ie USC, Alabama, Florida but for the most part they are pretty safe comfortable jobs. Look at FSU or PSU, those guys have been around forever even when they stink for several years. That would never happen in the NFL. Shanahan and Cowher are the exceptions not the rule.

[bkkcoh]

Before the salary cap era, it happened all the time.


Who????

[Brock]

I don't think that I stated that he couldn't hack it.

I know. I'm just speaking more to the general sentiment of the topic, which I'm surprised by.

[dirk digler]

Do you really think there is less pressure on a coach at a program like Alabama than there is in the NFL?

No question but those programs are very few. Is there pressure to win a National Championship at Kansas, Colorado, Iowa St, Missouri like there is in the NFL? I think not.

[Bob Dole]

You've got to admit, he's getting some sriously good scratch for coaching at a Second Tier SEC School.

[Brock]

Good point.

Some colleges do have alot of pressure to succeed,ie USC, Alabama, Florida but for the most part they are pretty safe comfortable jobs. Look at FSU or PSU, those guys have been around forever even when they stink for several years. That would never happen in the NFL. Shanahan and Cowher are the exceptions not the rule.

Bowden and Paterno have won championships. You generally don't fire coaches that have won championships for you, even in the NFL. Unless you're Jerry Jones.

[FringeNC]

I see you didn't address my previous post either.

As more and more college coaches fail at the NFL level, that spectre will be diminished as people start to realize that NO COLLEGE COACH, no matter how good, can build a team in a league where you have to win in 2 years or you're fired.

So Saban was fired, not quit? Ironic how Saban is the counter-example.

[Baby Lee]

You don't like that tactic? I borrowed it from you.

You're only looking at it from one perspective and not considering the alternatives, that's why I said you were unreasonable.

There are obstacles in the NFL that are INSURMOUNTABLE, regardless of how good of a coach one is. That's a FACT. Don't try to pretend it's not.

Comparing the NFL to F-1 and implying that the NCAA is "go-karts" is laughable. I expected better from someone of your intellect.
Go ahead, cite me the posts where my argument was solely 'people who disagree with me are stupid and unreasonable.'

And the comparison is not laughable, at least until there are NCAA teams that can REALISTICALLY take the field with even the worst NFL team, not just joking "hey this team smoked their competition this week, they could probably make a showing against the Cardinals/Lions/Raiders, etc. The BEST players to come out of the NCAA, with rare exceptions like Bush and Young, have to adjust to the heightened pace and brutality of the NFL. And that's not taking into account the entire team's capabilities.

[Brock]

No question but those programs are very few. Is there pressure to win a National Championship at Kansas, Colorado, Iowa St, Missouri like there is in the NFL? I think not.

No. But there also isn't a single NFL coach who would take any of those jobs either.

[htismaqe]

Carroll said that himself..that he liked College Coaching more,and it was less pressure.

There's plenty of pressure to win in college, but it's offset by the fact that college coaches can have a more direct effect on winning and losing.

They hand pick the talent and the talent, for the most part, actually listens to them...

[Mr. Laz]

for coaching at a Second Tier SEC School.
ROFL snap!!

[WilliamTheIrish]

Good point.

Some colleges do have alot of pressure to succeed,ie USC, Alabama, Florida but for the most part they are pretty safe comfortable jobs. Look at FSU or PSU, those guys have been around forever even when they stink for several years. That would never happen in the NFL. Shanahan and Cowher are the exceptions not the rule.

USC was not a safe comfortable job prior to the hiring of Carroll. They had lost 14(?) in a row to Noted Lame and struggled to stay in the middle of the pack in a conference they owned for previous 50 years. Hell they brought back John Robinson for a second go round.

[dirk digler]

Bowden and Paterno have won championships. You generally don't fire coaches that have won championships for you, even in the NFL. Unless you're Jerry Jones.

Sure you do. Billick and Gruden are on their last legs and that was just a few years ago. DV was basically pushed out of St. Louis. The Steelers aren't really interested in resigning Cowher and that was just last year.A SB victory only buys you a few years in the NFL not 20.

[htismaqe]

Who????

Going all the way back to Sid Gillman, guys who were successful in college were making the leap to the pros.

[htismaqe]

So Saban was fired, not quit? Ironic how Saban is the counter-example.

Who said Saban was fired?

[pikesome]

Do you really think there is less pressure on a coach at a program like Alabama than there is in the NFL?

The pressure in college ball is different, I'm not sure I would say easier. College coaches don't worry about dollars and cents or keeping "franchise" players happy. The margin of error can be/is greater in college ball too, they can schedule teams to give themselves a better chance and without an undisputed NC you can always fall back on the "the BCS screwed us" if you were close. They also have far greater control over recruiting than the Pros. On the other hand college coaches have to deal with maybe even less fan patience and myriad of NCAA violations that can stain a program or the coach. There is also alumni, some of which can be very influential, who can make life unpleasant. College ball has a larger number of other factors that can negatively impact you, some of which you can't control. The NFL is more striped down, most of the time, winning is job one, two and three.

[htismaqe]

Go ahead, cite me the posts where my argument was solely 'people who disagree with me are stupid and unreasonable.'

And the comparison is not laughable, at least until there are NCAA teams that can REALISTICALLY take the field with even the worst NFL team, not just joking "hey this team smoked their competition this week, they could probably make a showing against the Cardinals/Lions/Raiders, etc. The BEST players to come out of the NCAA, with rare exceptions like Bush and Young, have to adjust to the heightened pace and brutality of the NFL. And that's not taking into account the entire team's capabilities.

Funny. I never said anything about agreeing with me or disagreeing with me.

And of course, the talent level is higher in the NFL. I had no idea that's what you were referring to. We're talking about coaches.

[Brock]

Sure you do. Billick and Gruden are on their last legs and that was just a few years ago. DV was basically pushed out of St. Louis. The Steelers aren't really interested in resigning Cowher and that was just last year.A SB victory only buys you a few years in the NFL not 20.

Hell, Cowher could stay in Pittsburgh for as long as he wanted to. He's been there for 15 years, and if he doesn't come back, it's because he doesn't want to. I don't know where you're getting that DV was pushed out, he quit like the same day they won the Super Bowl. As far as Billick and Gruden go, I doubt very seriously that either one of those guys would have been fired, and if they are, they'll be hired by someone else the next day.

[htismaqe]

The pressure in college ball is different, I'm not sure I would say easier. College coaches don't worry about dollars and cents or keeping "franchise" players happy. The margin of error can be/is greater in college ball too, they can schedule teams to give themselves a better chance and without an undisputed NC you can always fall back on the "the BCS screwed us" if you were close. They also have far greater control over recruiting than the Pros. On the other hand college coaches have to deal with maybe even less fan patience and myriad of NCAA violations that can stain a program or the coach. There is also alumni, some of which can be very influential, who can make life unpleasant. College ball has a larger number of other factors that can negatively impact you, some of which you can't control. The NFL is more striped down, most of the time, winning is job one, two and three.

In college, you have a player for AT MOST 5 years. The college team revolves around the COACH.

In the NFL, you have a coach for at most 5 years. The NFL team revolves around the PLAYERS.

[Baby Lee]

Funny. I never said anything about agreeing with me or disagreeing with me.

And of course, the talent level is higher in the NFL. I had no idea that's what you were referring to. We're talking about coaches.
Funny, sounds like you aren't gonna be forthcoming with examples of the tactics you borrowed from me. Are you really suggesting that your proposition wasn't that people who disputed your premise were unreasonable and lacking in understanding?

And then there's the reasonable people that understand that a coach is much more directly responsible for wins and losses at the college level, where he doesn't have to take the backseat to players making millions of dollars who are obligated by contract to play for him...

Coaching or playing, you test your mettle against the competition of the highest caliber. Whether it's F1 v. gokart circuit, or NCAA v. NFL, unless you're measuring yourself against the best, you're not getting the true, full, measure of your abilities.

[dirk digler]

No. But there also isn't a single NFL coach who would take any of those jobs either.

True. Every coach in the NFL is EXPECTED to win and go to the playoffs and try to win a SB.

In the NCAA for 95% of the schools it is about have a winning record and don't get caught cheating because 95% don't have a realistic shot of winning the championship or going to a BCS Bowl.

[FringeNC]

Who said Saban was fired?

"can build a team in a league where you have to win in 2 years or you're fired." Saban was in Miami for two years, didn't win, and was NOT fired.

On the other hand, Shula was fired after two years at Alabama...

There is NOT less pressure to win in college. The reason those guys like college is because of the access to hot coeds, not having to deal with guys like T.O. who won't listen, and being royalty in a college town.

[htismaqe]

Funny, sounds like you aren't gonna be forthcoming with examples of the tactics you borrowed from me. Are you really suggesting that your proposition wasn't that people who disputed your premise were unreasonable and lacking in understanding?

Coaching or playing, you test your mettle against the competition of the highest caliber. Whether it's F1 v. gokart circuit, or NCAA v. NFL, unless you're measuring yourself against the best, you're not getting the true, full, measure of your abilities.

I don't have the time to **** around with your mind games. So no, I won't be forthcoming. And yes, I am suggesting that. It has nothing to do with agreement, it has EVERYTHING to do with being completely unwilling to accept an alternative point of view.

Coaching in the NFL doesn't EVER give a coach the true, full measure of his abilities. There's too many factors outside of his control.

The only people measuring themselves against the "best" in the NFL are the players. Being an NFL coach doesn't make you the best. In the NFL, good players trump bad coaches. In college, bad coaches CANNOT RECRUIT good players, so nothing trumps bad coaches.

[htismaqe]

"can build a team in a league where you have to win in 2 years or you're fired." Saban was in Miami for two years, didn't win, and was NOT fired.

On the other hand, Shula was fired after two years at Alabama...

There is NOT less pressure to win in college. The reason those guys like college is because of the access to hot coeds, not having to deal with guys like T.O. who won't listen, and being royalty in a college town.

I was making a generalization, I never said SABAN was fired.

IN GENERAL, a college coach has a longer period of time in which to establish himself.

I also said multiple times in this thread that there is NOT less pressure to win in college, so I don't know why you're directing that at me.

[dirk digler]

Hell, Cowher could stay in Pittsburgh for as long as he wanted to. He's been there for 15 years, and if he doesn't come back, it's because he doesn't want to. I don't know where you're getting that DV was pushed out, he quit like the same day they won the Super Bowl. As far as Billick and Gruden go, I doubt very seriously that either one of those guys would have been fired, and if they are, they'll be hired by someone else the next day.

It is true Cowher could stay but the Steelers aren't offering him any kind of extension for big money.

DV was politely pushed out because the Rams thought Martz was the genious behind the SB win. Why do you think DV came back after just 1 year off? So he could prove to everyone it wasn't just Martz.

Billick was going to be fired last season but he made some changes and they allowed him to stay. Gruden is on his last legs right now.

[Baby Lee]

I don't have the time to **** around with your mind games. So no, I won't be forthcoming.
I'm not the one who pulled the passive-agressive shit, then when called on it, alleged that he learned it from the caller-outer.
Weak sauce.

[Brock]

It is true Cowher could stay but the Steelers aren't offering him any kind of extension for big money.

DV was politely pushed out because the Rams thought Martz was the genious behind the SB win. Why do you think DV came back after just 1 year off? So he could prove to everyone it wasn't just Martz.

Billick was going to be fired last season but he made some changes and they allowed him to stay. Gruden is on his last legs right now.

That's pretty much all speculation on your part.

[htismaqe]

I'm not the one who pulled the passive-agressive shit, then when called on it, alleged that he learned it from the caller-outer.
Weak sauce.

You know, your pseudo-intellectual babble grows tiresome.

You can't ever just address a point without getting into some Dennis Miller-esque sequeway.

So go **** yourself. Is that passive-aggressive enough for ya?

[Mr. Laz]

You know, your pseudo-intellectual babble grows tiresome.

You can't ever just address a point without getting into some Dennis Miller-esque sequeway.

So go **** yourself. Is that passive-aggressive enough for ya?
that thong must be getting crusty


ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

[Baby Lee]

You know, your pseudo-intellectual babble grows tiresome.

You can't ever just address a point without getting into some Dennis Miller-esque sequeway.

So go **** yourself. Is that passive-aggressive enough for ya?
I learned it all from you. ROFL

You don't want to take these excursions, kindly making your point without trying to belittle those who disagree with you.

You wanna get past it in this particular instance apologize for intoning that those who feel that the NFL gigs are the ultimate test in coaching ability are unreasonable and lacking in knowledge.

[dirk digler]

That's pretty much all speculation on your part.

maybe, maybe not. From ESPN:

The 49-year-old Cowher, whose tenure with the same team is the longest of any current NFL coach, began weighing retirement shortly after the Steelers won the Super Bowl in February. He is signed through 2007 but, for the first time since being hired in January 1992, could not work out an extension.

[htismaqe]

I learned it all from you. ROFL

You don't want to take these excursions, kindly making your point without trying to belittle those who disagree with you.

You wanna get past it in this particular instance apologize for intoning that those who feel that the NFL gigs are the ultimate test in coaching ability are unreasonable and lacking in knowledge.

I already made my point. And I already explained my "unreasonable" comment.

By all means, continue.

[pikesome]

In college, you have a player for AT MOST 5 years. The college team revolves around the COACH.

In the NFL, you have a coach for at most 5 years. The NFL team revolves around the PLAYERS.

That's why the pressures are different. In the NFL you can get saddled with Vick, the coach killer. You can't get rid of him, can't hardly sit him, he makes far more money for both himself and the team than you are likely to. You can have cheap, worthless owners or spend-happy, worthless owners. You can have an entire lockeroom bad-mouthing you in the papers. You're never going to win a dispute with a major starter, maybe not even their back-up. On the other hand there are no NCAA sanctions or Alumni to keep happy. An influential alum could call your AD and make your life complicated in college ball where that sort of thing won't happen in the NFL. It boils down to winning and getting along with your players. Everything else is a distant second. No glad handing for donations. No stroking boosters.

On the other hand, I think the Bama job is a perfect example of whats bad about college ball. They aren't going to be happy unless they contend next year regardless of whether that's reasonable or not. The people who have the cushy college jobs are the ones, I believe, who took a team farther than was expected or kept the level of play higher, longer than expected. Not every job has that. If Carroll moved on tomorrow, his replacement would find the job far less enjoyable than Carroll does.

[htismaqe]

that thong must be getting crusty

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

That's high quality there.

Maybe you should ask Baby Lee if you can be an understudy. He's got the market cornered on high-brow smack. You could use some.

[Brock]

maybe, maybe not. From ESPN:

Surprise, it's about money.

[Baby Lee]

I already made my point. And I already explained my "unreasonable" comment.

By all means, continue.
I apologize if I've strung this out too far. But I have a particular strain of antipathy for people who make their arguments in the form of 'well, if my esteemed colleague had an ounce of brains, he wouldn't believe what he does." Maybe if you were in the D.C. ghetto more, you'd be more familar.
If you had phrased your argument in terms of "perhaps you are underestimating the effect of . . . " it might've turned out different.
Then trying to shove the tactic off on me, when I rail against it so consistently, and am so scrupulous in avoiding engaging in it, certainly didn't help.

[Mr. Laz]

That's high quality there.

Maybe you should ask Baby Lee if you can be an understudy. He's got the market cornered on high-brow smack. You could use some.
come on now ..... you're not around enough anymore to give crap to.


gotta take my shots while i have the chance. :p :p

[Mr. Laz]

But I have a particular strain of antipathy for people who make their arguments in the form of 'well, if my esteemed colleague had an ounce of brains, he wouldn't believe what he does."
oooh, oooh, ooooh :eek:

you and parker are gonna REALLY get along then


he's main argument is usually "i'm right, cuz you're stupid"


gotta watch this thread some more

http://bestsmileys.com/eating1/4.gif

[2112]

oooh, oooh, ooooh :eek:

you and parker are gonna REALLY get along then


he's main argument is usually "i'm right, cuz you're stupid"


gotta watch this thread some more

http://bestsmileys.com/eating1/4.gif
ROFL

[BigChiefFan]

It is amazing the good coaches who have been quite successful in the college ranks, but not in the pro ranks.

Just a couple of names: Lou Holtz, Pete Carroll, Jim Tressell (even though he hasn't coached at the pro level, it doesn't seem as if he is interested or rumored in the NFL),

It is definitely 2 different worlds. It is an exception if a coach experiences success at both levels, there aren't that many college and pro coaches that can say they have been national champs and superbowl champs.
Yet, people still bash Switzer. I never could figure that one out.

[Mr. Laz]

I apologize if I've strung this out too far. But I have a particular strain of antipathy for people who make their arguments in the form of 'well, if my esteemed colleague had an ounce of brains, he wouldn't believe what he does." Maybe if you were in the D.C. ghetto more, you'd be more familar.
If you had phrased your argument in terms of "perhaps you are underestimating the effect of . . . " it might've turned out different.
Then trying to shove the tactic off on me, when I rail against it so consistently, and am so scrupulous in avoiding engaging in it, certainly didn't help.
c'mon parker .... you're not gonna take that shit from a guy with "Baby" in his name ..... are ya?!?!

:Poke:

[htismaqe]

I apologize if I've strung this out too far. But I have a particular strain of antipathy for people who make their arguments in the form of 'well, if my esteemed colleague had an ounce of brains, he wouldn't believe what he does." Maybe if you were in the D.C. ghetto more, you'd be more familar.
If you had phrased your argument in terms of "perhaps you are underestimating the effect of . . . " it might've turned out different.
Then trying to shove the tactic off on me, when I rail against it so consistently, and am so scrupulous in avoiding engaging in it, certainly didn't help.

No need to apologize. I did my own part to turn this into something it didn't need to be.

As I said before, it was NOT my intention to imply in any way that you were unreasonable simply because you disagreed with me.

[htismaqe]

c'mon parker .... you're not gonna take that shit from a guy with "Baby" in his name ..... are ya?!?!

:Poke:

Sorry, my boss expects me to do something called "work". The nerve of some people.

[Mr. Laz]

Sorry, my boss expects me to do something called "work". The nerve of some people.
what a bastige

offer to get him his coffee and then use your dick to stir in the sugar.

[Chief Nute]

This is all well and good, but do you guys have any opinions on the Trent versus Damon debate? I cant believe no one has covered this yet. :shrug:

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Saban took this job for a couple of reasons:

A) Money--that much is undeniable
B) College fits his draconian style much better than the pros. It's hard not to lose a team when you are as dictatorial as he is with no real success and a very limited plan. He's cashed in on Belichick's coattails despite proving nearly nothing at the pro level.

[Sure-Oz]

Money talks apparently.....atleast admit you had interest.

[Mecca]

I think Saban learned the NFL isn't all it's cracked up to be and the college job is better....given the top college programs are paying as much as NFL teams the college jobs are better now.

[htismaqe]

This is all well and good, but do you guys have any opinions on the Trent versus Damon debate? I cant believe no one has covered this yet. :shrug:

ROFL

[Ultra Peanut]

They can afford this, yet they "couldn't afford" half ($300k/yr) of Jimbo Fisher's salary for UAB. Sickening, blatant sabotage.

[Saulbadguy]

They can afford this, yet they "couldn't afford" half ($300k/yr) of Jimbo Fisher's salary for UAB. Sickening, blatant sabotage.
Explain?

[Ultra Peanut]

Explain?
http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/story/9891201

Little Bear sits on the University of Alabama Board of Trustees. From there, he wields all sorts of authority over Alabama and its state step-sister, UAB. Little Bear, who once gave $10 million to the Crimson Tide athletics department, is close friends with Alabama AD Mal Moore, who keeps his job despite a proven inability to pick a quality football coach.

What happens to Alabama football, however, is not our concern. Bear Bryant Sr. built the Crimson Tide into the South's most fearsome franchise, and if his boy tears it all the way down, well, there is symmetry in that.

What has happened this month to UAB, however, is an outrage. Essentially, Little Bear's Board of Trustees blocked UAB from hiring the football coach it wanted. Twice. And the second time, Little Bear's Board stopped UAB from hiring the coach it wanted because, presumably, the coach UAB wanted -- Jimbo Fisher -- might also be wanted by Alabama.

Ugly, but that's the deal, based on SportsLine.com conversations with sources close to the situation.

After being blocked by the Board of Trustees in its quest to promote assistant coach Pat Sullivan, who became head coach at Samford, UAB turned to LSU offensive coordinator Jimbo Fisher. UAB and Fisher agreed on basic contractual terms, with half of Fisher's annual UAB salary -- ballpark: $600,000 -- to be subsidized by private boosters.

UAB was going to get the coach it wanted, a coach whose rumored arrival already was waking up the comatose UAB football program -- yet would have been on the hook for less salary than ex-coach Watson Brown, who made $375,000. It was perfect.

Little Bear's Board of Trustees said no. You want to know why? So do I, but Little Bear wouldn't return my messages.

[Brock]

http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/story/9891201

That's utterly corrupt.

[htismaqe]

They can afford this, yet they "couldn't afford" half ($300k/yr) of Jimbo Fisher's salary for UAB. Sickening, blatant sabotage.

Yeah, the local afternoon show here in DSM has a guy named Bama Bob on as their college football segment. He's a pretty good analyst, and he said there's going to be some serious lawsuits because of this. There's strong indications that Saban wants Fisher as his OC...

[cdcox]

Will the prestige and the challenge of the NFL be enough to recruit the top coaching talent, or will the best minds start targeting college jobs? I see this as a real threat to the NFL.

[htismaqe]

Will the prestige and the challenge of the NFL be enough to recruit the top coaching talent, or will the best minds start targeting college jobs? I see this as a real threat to the NFL.

The NFL would be wise to stop recycling it's own. Some of the guys getting NFL head coaching jobs have no business there...

[Hound333]

The difference I see between college and pro's is that you can totally turn your program around with a solid recruiting class or two. If you can recruit well you can get all 10 of the top players on any given year (usually not but if someone was good enough they could).

In the pro's there is a draft. While you are going to get a player you want, you have to wait for your pick and see people you wanted grabbed by other people. At USC Carroll can nab all the blue chips he can convince.

Basically in the pro's its about assessing talent and building it. In college its about selling yourself, your program, and convincing the talent to come to your school then building it once they get here.

[htismaqe]

The difference I see between college and pro's is that you can totally turn your program around with a solid recruiting class or two. If you can recruit well you can get all 10 of the top players on any given year (usually not but if someone was good enough they could).

In the pro's there is a draft. While you are going to get a player you want, you have to wait for your pick and see people you wanted grabbed by other people. At USC Carroll can nab all the blue chips he can convince.

Basically in the pro's its about assessing talent and building it. In college its about selling yourself, your program, and convincing the talent to come to your school then building it once they get here.

There's just not anything to really "build" in the NFL anymore. The NFL is all about fine tuning if you're a coach...

[cdcox]

The NFL would be wise to stop recycling it's own. Some of the guys getting NFL head coaching jobs have no business there...

The problem here is that at least 5 or 6 coaches leave their team every year. If most of these positions are fill by new guys instead of retreads, that means you need to find 5 or 6 new head coaching talents every year. If you recycle guys, you only need to find 2 or 3 new coaching talents every year. If you cut off the college ranks as a source for coaches, that leaves coordinators. 32 teams * 2 coordinators means you would be promoting about 10% of coordinators to head coach every year. I don't thing that rate can be sustained. Which explains why recycling is so common.

[DaneMcCloud]

The problem here is that at least 5 or 6 coaches leave their team every year. If most of these positions are fill by new guys instead of retreads, that means you need to find 5 or 6 new head coaching talents every year. If you recycle guys, you only need to find 2 or 3 new coaching talents every year. If you cut off the college ranks as a source for coaches, that leaves coordinators. 32 teams * 2 coordinators means you would be promoting about 10% of coordinators to head coach every year. I don't thing that rate can be sustained. Which explains why recycling is so common.

I think that we're getting to a point where it's going to become less common. It's getting more difficult every year to win in the NFL (as evident by so many 8-8, 7-9 teams) that the owners will reach out to a more diverse pool of candidates.

Are the owners so convinced that no one else can lead their teams than Tom Coughlin, Art Shell and Denny Green, not to mention George Seifert a few years back? There's much better candidates out there. The owners just have to make it happen.

Look at people like Les Miles, Karl Dorrell, Dennis Franchione and just a couple of years ago, Tyrone Willingham. These guys aren't winners? I know that success in college doesn't automatically mean success in the NFL, but I would think that more GM's and owners will start making that leap.

Who's left, anyway?