Denver Fans

[HonestChieffan]

I may just be a cold SOB, but I am in awe of the Denver Fans ideas about Williams getting killed and what should happen now.

Rather than focus on cleaning up crime, encouraging young players to avoid getting into bad situations and understand that these "gansta" thug lifestyles are not just glitz and fun...they are proposing everything from Naming the field after him to name on the Bronco ring of fame to erecting a statue of the guy.

One Bronco speculation I heard today was that maybe the Bronco should get "cap relief and or a compensatory pick in draft"

[Phobia]

One Bronco speculation I heard today was that maybe the Bronco should get "cap relief"
If only he had had been kept on life support until June 1st.

[Gonzo]

If only he had had been kept on life support until June 1st.


Al Davis would've spent a first-rounder on him.

[kc-nd]

It happens. Remember Joe Delaney. You just move on.

If you start making exceptions, where do you quit. I am sure we would like to have compensation for the performance of first round pick Ryan Sims - specifically for not living up to expectations.

[Iowanian]

I'm not really interested in bashing Denver fans or a dead player.

Some things are probably best left unsaid.

[Chief Chief]

It happens. Remember Joe Delaney. You just move on.

If you start making exceptions, where do you quit. I am sure we would like to have compensation for the performance of first round pick Ryan Sims - specifically for not living up to expectations.


...for not living up to expectations...

...for not living...

WHAT'S THE DIFF??

[KChiefer]

Good call HonestChieffan. My thoughts about this thing exactly. Whether he was an innocent bystander or not, the moral is don't put yourself in that situation. Especially when your a million dollar athlete.

[Mile High Mania]

I haven't proposed any of that and don't think the situation calls for it. I do think that if this were to happen with a player on any other team, similar thoughts would be expressed from those fans about their fallen player.

[hawkchief]

If I hear another hip-hop gangsta talk about "gettin disrespected", I swear I am going to puke. People disagree all the time, but that doesn't mean you shoot them and play the "he didn't respect me" card. "Respect" is the modern-day thugs' reason to kill.

[CoMoChief]

Nothing good happens at 3am outside a nightclub.

[Mile High Mania]

Nothing good happens at 3am outside a nightclub.

First time I read that one...

[HonestChieffan]

Nothing good happens at 3am outside a nightclub.

In case you need to see it again....

[KChiefer]

Nothing good happens at 3am outside a nightclub.

The Brittany Smears snap shots? ;-)

[StcChief]

It's all in the other thread.

Wrong crowd, wrong place/wrong time....

Bottom line just unlucky/Stupid move.

Is it the age of indistructibility 13-24....????

Draft pick BS. See joe Delaney.

Put the Gangsta wannabe on Incestco ring if you want

[KCFalcon59]

Nothing good happens at 3am outside a nightclub.

There was this one time.....drunk chick....she was real eager to perform...I thought it was good.....

[morphius]

I'm not really interested in bashing Denver fans or a dead player.

Some things are probably best left unsaid.
Pretty much if Iowanian says that it is a topic that shouldn't be touched, well, you know you are at least walking a very thin line.

Honestly, if they want to name the field or put him on their ring, who cares? As for the cap and draft, I doubt we got any relief from DT's passing, so they are just sort of hoping there.

[Hound333]

I am not going to jump on the bandwagon that he was partly to blame. Everyone deserves a night out every now and then.

He was drinking but had the sense to make sure he didn't drive.

Some reports say that there was a verbal disagreement but his party chose to leave after it happened. Again this is a smart choice.

Some people have said that he was with gang members. This is speculation at this point but when your famous people come up to you just to talk. Could have been as innocent as a fan who happen to be in a gang.

Obviously we will know more later but it would be extremely sad if he died only because someone from a rival gang was a fan and decided to chat with a famous football player. The world has really gotten out of control, maybe its always been like this and we were too nieve to admit it. I just don't want to blame the player until I have proof he did anything wrong other than try and have a good time after a tough loss.

[htismaqe]

Some of the sentiment in this thread would have been better left unprinted.

Sometimes being a member here makes me feel shame...

[King_Chief_Fan]

Some of the sentiment in this thread would have been better left unprinted.

Sometimes being a member here makes me feel shame...

hell has frozen over

I agree with you 100%

[burt]

Some of the sentiment in this thread would have been better left unprinted....

Agreed. It was a tragedy. No need to speculate nor cast negatives. It was and is a tragedy. The life of a good athelete, with promise has been stupidly and prematurely ended. I didn't know the young man, but I send my condolences to his family. I hope that if my life was to be similarily ended, peopls not knowing who I am, wouldn't speculate.


Sometimes being a member here makes me feel shame...

I don't feel shame for the idiotic statements or opinions of absolutely every identity associated with a group that I am associated with. We are a group, a family if you will. But all families have a crazy sister.

[Phobia]

For the record, my "June 1st" comment was simply to illustrate how preposterous the suggestion that they get cap relief was. I'm not really into trashing the guy or their team over a tragedy. I hope nobody was offended.

[Hound333]

Phobia I wasn't really offended, just spouting my opinion like any other poster :)

Some people feel he was at fault and are entitled to their opinion. I feel that with the current information he most likely was just very very very unlucky. Time will tell.

[Pitt Gorilla]

I guess I don't see a problem with him having a statue, being in their ring of fame, or naming the field after him. They won't get picks or cap relief, so let them deal with their grief however they want. Good Lord, people.

[Iowanian]

How many soldiers have died since this event(3 that day, 1 from IA) that have barely made a blip on the news?

Tragedy happens every day. Millionaire athletes aren't immune.

If the fans and team want to honor this player, thats their right.

[burt]

How many soldiers have died since this event(3 that day, 1 from IA) that have barely made a blip on the news?

Tragedy happens every day. Millionaire athletes aren't immune.

Making disparaging remarks about either is bad form.

[htismaqe]

For the record, my "June 1st" comment was simply to illustrate how preposterous the suggestion that they get cap relief was. I'm not really into trashing the guy or their team over a tragedy. I hope nobody was offended.

I never really even noticed your response.

I was directing my comments to those of us who apparently think the act of getting shot somehow makes someone a gangbanger...

[KChiefer]

So if LJ got shot while riding with Jay-Z. You guys would be ready to erect a statue and rename the field to LJ field before LH field? And where's Cory Stringers statue? As far as a free draft pick...HA! That's what this thread is about.

And saying that "clubbing with suspect ppl is a bad idea" isn't a disgrace to his name. I hope someone tells his kids not to do it. Lord knows they'll be screwed up enough after this.

And I can think way sadder stuff to mourn over in the world. How about my friend who decided to kill himself by leaving the car on only to change his mind later. But it was too late, they found him in his bed with CO poisoning. He had a daughter, a family, friends. When some friends called him a stupid, selfish, bastard it may have been out of mourning but they still felt that way and had a right to say it.

If you guys wanna take the 100% high road then fine, but don't call ppl heartless for discussing this in a respectful manner.

[burt]

If you guys wanna take the 100% high road then fine, but don't call ppl heartless for discussing this in a respectful manner.

I don't take the high road often, so let me take it now. And your timing is NOT respectful, his family is still grieving.

[Mile High Mania]

Some haven't discussed it in a respectful manner. And, for a KC fan to get all bent out of shape for something a few random Broncos' fans have suggested... I just don't see the point.

Let 'em suggest whatever the hell they want to suggest, none of it will happen. I don't think anything that has been suggested should happen, personally, but I'm not going to verbally crotch kick someone for suggesting it.

Comparing the coverage that this event has received to other senseless losses like wars, etc ... ok, fine things to bring up, but none of us controls what the media runs with and getting all riled up about it is pointless.

If you're letting this topic or anything about this topic ruffle your feathers... you need a hobby.

Is it sad that the event happened? Yes.

Is it sad that people with no celebrity status die like this (or worse) all the time with no mention on the news? Yes.

That's life... control what you care to control and move on. There's no reason to continue bringing up the topic of this tragic event if the only purpose is to bag on comments from others. Everyone has their opinions, so just let it go.

[KChiefer]

I don't take the high road often, so let me take it now. And your timing is NOT respectful, his family is still grieving.

I didn't know his family visited this board.

[Mile High Mania]

I didn't know his family visited this board.

I just think it's odd that you think it's more appropriate to mourn for a guy that tried to kill himself, compared to a guy that was gunned down.

Both situations were tragic and the families left behind are worse off. Neither individual was better than the other.

[burt]

I didn't know his family visited this board.

Hey, they just might...and they just might have 108 posts.....

I didn't say they did visit our board, but some very quality posters here are Denver fans. To be speculating and discussing actions that we have no idea of, is bad form. Let people, relatives and/or fans, grieve.

I am not saying that this is any more or less tragic than our military deaths, or the many other senseless death of non-celebrities... I am just saying, give it a little time before discussing your ideas on what happened or why. Just show a little respect. Or not.

[Eleazar]

Rather than focus on cleaning up crime, encouraging young players to avoid getting into bad situations and understand that these "gansta" thug lifestyles are not just glitz and fun...they are proposing everything from Naming the field after him to name on the Bronco ring of fame to erecting a statue of the guy.


I don't know if the thug life culture had anything to do with this murder, but it's too bad that pro athletes generally embrace it.

What kind of an effect would there be if elite athletes would start rejecting and publicly repudiating the thug liftstyle? A group of people who will drop hundreds on a pair of their shoes obviously considers them someone to be admired.

Athletes should be doing more than they are to curb violence. It seems like for many people, the rapper lifestyle is the ideal. A lot of kids grow up today not aspiring to be doctors or lawyers or community leaders or whatever. Their ideal is to be the stereotypical gangster, the rapper type, living the style glamourized in that type of music. Someone who has money and who everybody respects or else. The ideal is to just be an adult acting like a kid - spending money, driving the cars, bringing violence against people who disrespect you in some way.

Why should people grow up thinking that is the ideal? What does that encourage from the next generation?

[Redrum_69]

I have a solution to all this...


Ban everyone with fewer than 500 posts


That gets rid of half the trolls

[Hound333]

Yes, ban everyone under 500..... wait a minute. Doh!

[Mile High Mania]

Here's the deal that many don't grasp. And, hopefully this doesn't come across wrong...

Yes, it would be great if athletes were better role models and used better judgement regarding what they do and who they bring into their inner circle. Some do, but most do not.

There's a bit of a difference between the wannabe gangsta lookin' hip hop artists and they jagazz folks that *appear* to be responsible for the death of Williams.

Guys like Williams (age 24) had a rough upbringing and associtated with people like this when they were younger. No, I'm not using this as an excuse. It sounds like (from reading comments from his high school coach, etc) that Williams had moved on from that lifestyle.

However, at 24... with all that money and the opportunities to do whatever you want... it's easy to make bad choices with what you do, especially considering the life you knew before being "rich and famous".

Expecting atheletes to all of a sudden do a 180 on the behavior they've known for most of their life as soon as they become a 'pro athlete making tons of cash' is kinda crazy to me.

Again - not making excuses. I'm just saying that expecting everyone to be Marvin Harrison or Tomlinson is setting the bar really high, sadly they're not the norm. I'm not asking that anyone "pity" Williams.

Barkley said it best "I'm not a role model" and while kids are marketed to by these athletes, it's the parent that needs to make sure their kids are focused on the right role models... that being, mom & dad.

Finally... while some details have come out, the whole story hasn't been told.

[HonestChieffan]

It would be nice to see the head coaches use this as an example with all these players.

No one should put themselves in a position where they are rubbing shoulders with bad elements.

[Halfcan]

With Denvers luck lately-do you think it is wise for the whole team and Org. to get on ONE plane to attend the funeral?? Maybe they should watch (We are Marshal) and rethink that.

[Mile High Mania]

Wow. Honestly though, I think it's crazy for any team or organization to do anything like that in the first place.

[stevieray]

Hey, if they want to name the field after a player who was shot after an altercation at a nightclub, more power to them.

Then again, when does this type of behavior become unacceptable? or is that impossible? The hood seems to have a hard time distancing itself from certain players. IMO, it's old and worn out. Grow the hell up.

What happened to guys duking it out and living to fight another day...? too afraid of an asswhipping?

[Fish]

Barkley said it best "I'm not a role model" and while kids are marketed to by these athletes, it's the parent that needs to make sure their kids are focused on the right role models... that being, mom & dad.

Finally... while some details have come out, the whole story hasn't been told.

Too bad there are so many terrible mom and dad role models out there....

Good post....

[KChiefer]

Neither individual was better than the other.

True. It's worse to me because it was personal. Like I said, when ppl cursed him for it, I understood. And the idea of someone killing themselves(after deciding not to) is sadder to me than someone getting themselves into bad situation IMO, because of ones mental state. And saying that has to do with discussion, not placing blame. In no way am I trying to mock Williams.

Look I mispoke when I said I totally support what this thread is about. I mainly agree with the idea that athletes and anyone for that matter do everything they can to stay clear of stuff like this. Just witness the LJ interview. "You gotta worry about the guy with the gun around the block." Why?

I should of never said anything related to this topic. I'm just tired of hearing ppl get badgered for expressing logical thoughts. But this IS the internet.

You're right about Denver fans(family) coming here and not needing to hear "he deserved it." But I don't feel ppl are saying that. Rather they're speaking to the senselessness gang violence. I'm sorry if I offended any Denver fans or his family. It was never my intention.

Lastly, please don't call me a troll. I may be new here and you may disagree with me but I am not a troll. I will say nothing more about this and rightfully so.

[pak1983]

too bad elway wasn't riding in williams place........

[Rausch]

Going out to a bar, probably drinking, and NOT driving home.

Horrible role model. Terrible...

[Drunk]

It would be nice to see the head coaches use this as an example with all these players.

No one should put themselves in a position where they are rubbing shoulders with bad elements.
There are bad elements everywhere, unless the players are to all stay in a safe room somewhere until practice/game time, this is an impossible request.

[Bob Dole]

Nothing good happens at 3am outside a nightclub.


It's not our fault you can't pick up loose women who will boink you in the car.

[chiefqueen]

If what happen in 1998 (when a Raider died after inking his deal) Denver will get cap relief.

Denver will be able to pay the remainder of his contract to his family, Denver will not have to count this against any future caps.

In case you're wondering, the Chiefs were not entitled to cap relief in 2000 because DT was an UFA when he died.

[kcxiv]

If I hear another hip-hop gangsta talk about "gettin disrespected", I swear I am going to puke. People disagree all the time, but that doesn't mean you shoot them and play the "he didn't respect me" card. "Respect" is the modern-day thugs' reason to kill.
Modern day nothing, its been like that for over 20 years.

[HonestChieffan]

They pay to what family....his parents? I have not yet read if he was married.

[GROB]

too bad elway wasn't riding in williams place........
Then he could be having a conversation with Derrick Thomas about condoms and weaving in and out of traffic on a slick road.

[Bwana]

Then he could be having a conversation with Derrick Thomas about condoms and weaving in and out of traffic on a slick road.

Seriously, why is this waste of skin still here? Ban the little prick already. :shake:

[Thig Lyfe]

For the record, my "June 1st" comment was simply to illustrate how preposterous the suggestion that they get cap relief was. I'm not really into trashing the guy or their team over a tragedy. I hope nobody was offended.

No, I'm pretty sure you were mocking Jesus.

[Ugly Duck]

One Bronco speculation I heard today was that maybe the Bronco should get "cap relief and or a compensatory pick in draft"

Huh? Remember when Oakland got a compensatory pick for sending McFatass to the Chiefs? We took Leon Bender in the top of the 2nd round & the guy just dropped dead. Instead of getting compensation from the league, we had to pay the dead guy & it counted against the cap. Them Donkey fanz is dreaming.....

Bonus still counts:

Despite his death Saturday, defensive tackle Leon Bender will count $240,000 against the Oakland Raiders' salary cap this season and $960,000 next season. Bender, the No. 31 pick in the NFL draft, recently had signed a five-year, $3.45 million contract, including a $1.2 million signing bonus. Under league rules, 20% of the already-paid bonus will count against the Raiders' cap this season and the remaining 80% next season.

[Iowanian]

too bad elway wasn't riding in williams place........

As if there were any need for you to point out what an ignorant dickholster you are.

[Iowanian]

Then he could be having a conversation with Derrick Thomas about condoms and weaving in and out of traffic on a slick road.

and with that post, you took a dive lower in the gutter than Pak. Welcome to cocksuckerville, population you.


Way to stay classy.

[GROB]

and with that post, you took a dive lower in the gutter than Pak. Welcome to cocksuckerville, population you.


Way to stay classy.
Read the post I was responding to. I see none of you said anything to the original post.

[stevieray]

Read the post I was responding to. I see none of you said anything to the original post.

Two wrongs don't make a right...

[Iowanian]

Check a post above, dickbag.

Pak was already known to be a wet fart in white pants.
You've turned that into a full fledged shart with 1 post.

[DenverChief]

Good call HonestChieffan. My thoughts about this thing exactly. Whether he was an innocent bystander or not, the moral is don't put yourself in that situation. Especially when your a million dollar athlete.

He was at a new years party that included players from the Denver Nuggets and the San Francisco Fourty Niners...it could have happened to anyone

[wad1980]

I'd figure I should go ahead and chime in with my worthless two cents....

Yeah, it sucks what happened, but it happened. Nobody saying anything will change anything. I don't make my way over to this board too often, but its boring over there right now. I didn't shed any tears, it doesn't make me not want to watch football, I don't think they should retire his number and it doesn't bother me what is being said over here. This is a chiefs board. Maybe we should expect you guys to also shut this site down during the funeral and maybe rename it D-Wills Planet or something like that. Hell I've even laughed at some of the comments that were made. Maybe its wrong, maybe its right doesn't matter. He was a celebrity and celebrities are not treated like normal people.

Anyways...There's my rant....I'll go back to lurking now.

[GROB]

Check a post above, dickbag.

Pak was already known to be a wet fart in white pants.
You've turned that into a full fledged shart with 1 post.
I don't know who the hell pak is? You spoke up after the fact.

[Iowanian]

Pardon me for waiting until I see someone make a dickbag post before responding. I saw his, called him a shitpig before seeing your garbage.

You're a classless puke as much as he is for your reply. Your class card, is revoked.

[Halfcan]

Check a post above, dickbag.

Pak was already known to be a wet fart in white pants.
You've turned that into a full fledged shart with 1 post.

ROFL Your backwoods inbreed hillbilly humor cracks me up.

[chiefs4me]

I haven't proposed any of that and don't think the situation calls for it. I do think that if this were to happen with a player on any other team, similar thoughts would be expressed from those fans about their fallen player.






Happy Birthday!!!

[jspchief]

In defense of his "out at the bar late at night".... wasn't it New Year's Eve? Half the adult population is out late on that night. At least he was smart enough to not drive (Jared Allen, are you listening?).

That being said, I have my doubts about this being 100% random too. Someone in that limo was probably involved in some trouble making.

[RNR]

Then he could be having a conversation with Derrick Thomas about condoms and weaving in and out of traffic on a slick road.
WOW I have never given neg rep to anyone. I have had some assclowns piss me off before...nevermind you like them are just a dump behind a screen not worth the effort.

[38yrsfan]

My gosh people, this is ridiculous ... I'll say again what I said in a previous post that agrees with many ....

start of previous post
===============================================
"Hmmm, how to phrase this and not seem insensitive (I'll be slammed no matter what) ....

Yes it is a shame that he was killed and as apparent innocent bystander when his rented stretch limo-Hummer was sprayed with a dozen shots following an arguement at a nightclub ..... but we aren't talking about a pillar of society here so I feel the extreme amount of sympathy bandied about is overkill and a reaction to news story sensationalism

He was an "associate" of members of the local Crips gang, hung with them but not an "official" member, just liked to give the appearance. Even described himself as wild and a problem from age 12 to 17. He missed the Alamo Bowl, suspended for undisclosed reasons. He drug tested positive his freshman year at OSU.

He left behind kids the first born when he was 17, a son (7) and a daughter (4) he wasn't married to the children's mother - they live in Texas. Sorry for them that dad won't be around but they will be better off $-wise than most children when a parent(s) dies or is killed. Perspective; look at the dependents of the 3000+ soldiers killed in Iraq or the 23,000 wounded - there is a place you can direct your sympathy. We lost 2 of our soldiers the same day Williams was killed.

Some might know me and that I can be harsh but I have been around death as a veteran; some in stupid and needless situations others as ressults of orders given and those left behind all feel the same for a loss. How many of you have held a crying kid when they find out daddy isn't coming back. I see shadows in the night and faces of lost friends still - think about that before you judge my "insensitivity".

Sorry if this offends some; it is late, I just finished responding to an e-mail from the father of one of my Boy Scouts who was deployed to Iraq five months ago and had stories of real problems ..... Put the death of the this athlete/entertainer in real world perspective ...."
================================================
end of previous post

Ring of Fame/Honor nominee???
Dedicate a statue of respect????
Rename the stadium ????

Other things to consider or think about;

The guy started working with childrens charities after he "made" the bigtime stage - uh, does anyone not know that the NFL "encourages" players to do this for image. Salient point for perspective - Bill Gates is known as really nice guy ... who wouldn't be without the pressures of real-life - the average Joe that has to work to provide for his family and then does volunteer work deserves more respect.

His mom is mentioned as family (he bought her a house and car) ... I find that great, ALWAYS take care of your mom.
However what about the kids mom? Anyone know the name of the kids mom? My earlier research into this situation didn't find anything.

All lot of NFL players are like a lot of NBA players (notice the greater frequency of on-court brawls?) - people with lots of money that develop "I'm better than the common folk because I'm rich" attitudes. Not all but quite a few.

There is more that can be "debated" but .....

So with that said, grab your hammer and nails and put my hide on the side of the barn but that is my opinion.

previous thread -

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=155576&page=1&pp=15

Let's let this topic and Williams RIP.