Without Gun this is a 4-12 Team

[KCJohnny]

Herm came in and achieved "balance". That's what you could say after having a D suck so bad the past 5 years that getting under 300 points (we didn't) would have been a monumental achievement. But in the name of "balance" we took the league's best offense and demoted it to a predictable, 1-dimensional cliche that dropped SIXTEEN places in ranking and performed worse than almost any offense in NFL playoff history (126 yards of total offense).

I think without Gun trying to make shinola out of $#!+ with Herm's insistance on Cover 2, this team is horrible. The Colts game shows that the testicles are on D, and that is NOT because Herm "changed the focus". If DV was here, we'd be 14-2 and laughing at the Colts because he kept Gun. That said, this team had better realize that flushing DV's O leaves not much in its place. Thank God for Gun, because without him and these over-acheivers, this team is a waste of talent. Hopefully Gun stays and keeps this team at least semi-competitive.

[Phobia]

Awesome thread. Simply amazing.

[Coach]

LMAO

Wow....

Just wow..

[Mecca]

.......Yea Gun is such a genius he asked for a ton of players got them and well those players suck.

[007]

DV would not have done much better with this offense. The line sucked.

[FringeNC]

Gun is the same piece of human feces that took a team that had an offense than set a ****ing NFL record for first downs in 2004, and led them to a losing record.

**** you, KCJ. Gun is part of the problem.

[KCJohnny]

DV would not have done much better with this offense. The line sucked.

:BS:

If ya don't have what ya want, work with what ya have. Today demonstrated a cluelessness that makes Jimmy Raye look like Don Coryell. Without a valiant defense, we lost this game 56-0 with no dignity intact at all.

[blueballs]

I highly doubt Will Shields would have returned
Roaf sure as hell wouldn't have even tried

[yeti]

well this is out of left field. Gunther? Really?

[Mecca]

I hope Gunther gets fired.....

[MadMax]

:BS:

If ya don't have what ya want, work with what ya have. Today demonstrated a cluelessness that makes Jimmy Raye look like Don Coryell. Without a valiant defense, we lost this game 56-0 with no dignity intact at all.


Dignity died today my friend,thanks to that putrid display of offense.

[KCJohnny]

I hope Gunther gets fired.....

Oh, that's a good solution.
STFU

[Basileus777]

DV would not have done much better with this offense. The line sucked.

Vermeil built this offense into what it was, and I think you underestimate his ability to adjust. I have no doubt that if Vermeil were here this line would not be playing quite this badly. The play calling would not be this bad and our offense would have more confidence if Vermeil was here.

[007]

:BS:

If ya don't have what ya want, work with what ya have. Today demonstrated a cluelessness that makes Jimmy Raye look like Don Coryell. Without a valiant defense, we lost this game 56-0 with no dignity intact at all.
I was referring to the entire season.

[KCJohnny]

Dignity died today my friend,thanks to that putrid display of offense.
Without the heart demonstrated by the D, this game is a humiliation of Biblical proportions. The NFL's Top O from 2005 getting 126 yards of total offense against one of the worst defenses in history to ever make the playoffs. Yeah. Right. Fire Gun. :shake:

[the Talking Can]

Gun likes it in the rear.

[ROYC75]

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

[KCJohnny]

Vermeil built this offense into what it was, and I think you underestimate his ability to adjust. I have no doubt that if Vermeil were here this line would not be playing quite this badly. The play calling would not be this bad and our offense would have more confidence if Vermeil was here.
:toast:

[yeti]

well DV is gone so who cares what he would have done this year. Herm is here and all we can do is hope that Carl will activate his good ol' boy network in 2008 and bring back his boy Cowher

[blueballs]

you have to build through the draft
you can't say DV didn't suck at it
5 years was enough for the old man

[007]

well DV is gone so who cares what he would have done this year. Herm is here and all we can do is hope that Carl will activate his good ol' boy network in 2008 and bring back his boy Cowher and the get the f### out of here.
Fixed yer post.

[yeti]

Fixed yer post.

Oh ya I forgot. Thanks.

[kcxiv]

This game reminded me of the Defense from 1997 where they would bend like hell between the 20's but when you got in the red zone they shut it out. I am not saying it is the D from the 97 team, but it was reminding me of it.

Guntharr wether people like it or not is the one that started the turn around. There was flashes of it last year, and it was even better this year. The D will be even better next year when we get a DT worth flying f#ck.

GUntharr isnt going anywhere, and i for one am glad.

People may hate on me, but thats fine, you got haters everywhere.

[KCJohnny]

This game reminded me of the Defense from 1997 where they would bend like hell between the 20's but when you got in the red zone they shut it out. I am not saying it is the D from the 97 team, but it was reminding me of it.

Guntharr wether people like it or not is the one that started the turn around. There was flashes of it last year, and it was even better this year. The D will be even better next year when we get a DT worth flying f#ck.

GUntharr isnt going anywhere, and i for one am glad.

People may hate on me, but thats fine, you got haters everywhere.\\I agree, we were an 8-8 team last year without Gun's leadership. I just hate it that he was force fed Cover 2 this year or we might just well have been 11-5. Still, Herm killed this O. Damn. :shake:

[kcxiv]

\\I agree, we were an 8-8 team last year without Gun's leadership. I just hate it that he was force fed Cover 2 this year or we might just well have been 11-5. Still, Herm killed this O. Damn. :shake:
Best part was when Whitlocked asked Herm, how did this defense go from bieng 1-2 in the league to what it is now in under a year. Herm just said i dont know. lol I really did laugh

[yeti]

This game reminded me of the Defense from 1997 where they would bend like hell between the 20's but when you got in the red zone they shut it out. I am not saying it is the D from the 97 team, but it was reminding me of it.

Guntharr wether people like it or not is the one that started the turn around. There was flashes of it last year, and it was even better this year. The D will be even better next year when we get a DT worth flying f#ck.

GUntharr isnt going anywhere, and i for one am glad.

People may hate on me, but thats fine, you got haters everywhere.

I am still not sure whether it's soley Gunther's doing. However, he led the D's of the '90s so he has to know something. I think that with some possible badass safeties (pollard and page) and a DT then we might have something going for us.

[RJ]

:BS:

If ya don't have what ya want, work with what ya have. Today demonstrated a cluelessness that makes Jimmy Raye look like Don Coryell. Without a valiant defense, we lost this game 56-0 with no dignity intact at all.


I agree with this. After playing 16 regular season games Herm and his offensive coaches should have a better grasp on both their strengths and weaknesses.

I heard one of the announcers today quote Herm as saying he knew that if we got behind the line wouldn't be able to stop their pass rush. Good that he knew that, but why work off such a conservative strategy if you know you can't play from behind? Seems like that's a clue to come out aggressive and try to get an early lead.

Having said all that, the Colts are the better team and would probably win 8 times if we played 10. But it shoudn't have been so lopsided.

[chiefsfan1963]

Vermeil built this offense into what it was, and I think you underestimate his ability to adjust. I have no doubt that if Vermeil were here this line would not be playing quite this badly. The play calling would not be this bad and our offense would have more confidence if Vermeil was here.


:clap: :clap:

[KCJohnny]

I agree with this. After playing 16 regular season games Herm and his offensive coaches should have a better grasp on both their strengths and weaknesses.

I heard one of the announcers today quote Herm as saying he knew that if we got behind the line wouldn't be able to stop their pass rush. Good that he knew that, but why work off such a conservative strategy if you know you can't play from behind? Seems like that's a clue to come out aggressive and try to get an early lead.

Having said all that, the Colts are the better team and would probably win 8 times if we played 10. But it shoudn't have been so lopsided.

Thanks, RJ. There should have been, as Jo Po suggested, a plan B, especially when the game plan was run it down their throats with2 of our best blockers (Dunn and Turley) voluntarily put on IR to protect PRACTICE SQUAD players from the waiver wire.

[chiefsfan1963]

Without the heart demonstrated by the D, this game is a humiliation of Biblical proportions. The NFL's Top O from 2005 getting 126 yards of total offense against one of the worst defenses in history to ever make the playoffs. Yeah. Right. Fire Gun. :shake:

it amazes me how people on this board have totally deluded themselves on how lucky we were when DV and AS were here. All we needed was a decent D, and we would have gone the distance at least twice.

This O will never come close to what we had the prior 5 years. Tis a shame. Rest in peace almighty O we'll miss you.

[blueballs]

if you would change your love to Saunders for HC
you might get more support
never mind most have you on ignore most likely

[cdcox]

All we needed was a decent D

Which he never achieved in FIVE years. Game over.

[milkman]

Other coaches have fixed a defense in a year or two.

Gunt has made some progress, but this is his third year.

Gunt has had enough time to fix this defense, and while better, it ain't fixed.

[Thig Lyfe]

If we were to go 4-12, Carl would be gone, we'd have a high pick and go directly into rebuilding mode.

As it is, we were "close" and need "just a few fixes". As in, make some superficial cuts and sign aging free agents.

[KCJohnny]

it amazes me how people on this board have totally deluded themselves on how lucky we were when DV and AS were here. All we needed was a decent D, and we would have gone the distance at least twice.

This O will never come close to what we had the prior 5 years. Tis a shame. Rest in peace almighty O we'll miss you.

Exactly. And if Solari really had the killer -instinct that AS had, even without Raof, we would have had a majot year on offense. DAMN. a 1789 yard RB gives you CARTE BLANCHE in the play-action pass game if you have the %$#@ common sense to USE it. Steve Bono out-performed Green this year. 16 Games with Huard with Al Saunders as OC = 13-3. GO GUN!!!!!!!!

[FringeNC]

Which he never achieved in FIVE years. Game over.

And the fact that DV gave more atonomy to Gun than Edwards does...Yeah, it's all DV's fault.

[milkman]

it amazes me how people on this board have totally deluded themselves on how lucky we were when DV and AS were here. All we needed was a decent D, and we would have gone the distance at least twice.

This O will never come close to what we had the prior 5 years. Tis a shame. Rest in peace almighty O we'll miss you.

It never amazes me how people see the O over those 5 years and proclaim they love Dick, while completely ignoring the fact that the D he had was one of the worst in history over a 5 year span.

[Hammock Parties]

Jesus Christ, KCJohnny.

Gunther is lucky as hell that Herm is here to hold his hand. He is NOTHING without Herm.

Herm Edwards gave Kansas City it's best defense in almost a decade.

[cdcox]

And the fact that DV gave more atonomy to Gun than Edwards does...Yeah, it's all DV's fault.

Head coach. Comes with the territory.

[Basileus777]

If we were to go 4-12, Carl would be gone,

Do you really believe that? I highly doubt Carl would be fired in this scenario.

And hating on the Cover 2 and Herm's influence on this defense doesn't make sense. The Cover 2 is what worked today.

[FringeNC]

It never amazes me how people see the O over those 5 years and proclaim they love Dick, while completely ignoring the fact that the D he had was one of the worst in history over a 5 year span.

Delegation is a bitch, isn't it. How many DCs have Holmgren and Shanahan gone through? It's called specialization, and DV brought something to the table. (More than just something, actually.) Edwards is an absolute joke.

[KCJohnny]

Jesus Christ, KCJohnny.

Gunther is lucky as hell that Herm is here to hold his hand. He is NOTHING without Herm.

Herm Edwards gave Kansas City it's best defense in almost a decade.

Oh yeah. Dropping the O from #1 to #16 is definitely the formulae for advancing your D. Do you REALIZE what a monumental achievement it is for a D to get better when its O drops SIXTEEN palces in the league ranking??????

You just don't want to acknowledge the job Gun did with ZERO stars on D and some vets, hopefuls and maintenance players. Without Gun's D today, we lose 56-0.

[Coogs]

I think without Gun trying to make shinola out of $#!+

At least it is his $#!+. All the players on defense are the ones he wanted, plus a couple of draft picks and Law thrown in.

And you know it was a bad day when a defense that gives up 450 total yards (188 yards rushing) is the bright spot.

[Reerun_KC]

Jesus Christ, KCJohnny.

Gunther is lucky as hell that Herm is here to hold his hand. He is NOTHING without Herm.

Herm Edwards gave Kansas City it's best defense in almost a decade.

You know how lukcy KC is to have Herm bring in his Butt Sex Offense?

We are now balanced and were totaly humilated on national TV agian with Herm!

Thanks for reminding us how lucky everyone is that we have Herm.

[kcxiv]

At least it is his $#!+. All the players on defense are the ones he wanted, plus a couple of draft picks and Law thrown in.

And you know it was a bad day when a defense that gives up 450 total yards (188 yards rushing) is the bright spot.
The eason they gave up so many yards is we had 7 count them 7 3 and outs. 42 minutes the Defene was on the field. Ty Law even said F@ck me when the O couldnt do shit with his interception.

The D was just so gased at the end of the game there was nothing left in the damn tank. They did a damn fine job against Manning in their house. Did they play perfect? no, of course not, but there isnt a Defense in the league that really would have done better in the RCA dome.

[KCJohnny]

At least it is his $#!+. All the players on defense are the ones he wanted, plus a couple of draft picks and Law thrown in.

And you know it was a bad day when a defense that gives up 450 total yards (188 yards rushing) is the bright spot.

Get a %^&*()%$ clue, dude. we didn't make a 1st down until 3:33 was left in the 3rd quarter and took the ball away 4x. We were in this game until the O just laid down and quit. This D was tremendous today on the road against an 8-0 home team. If this O gets 10 first downs, Indy's offensove output is reduced by 33%.

[milkman]

Delegation is a bitch, isn't it. How many DCs have Holmgren and Shanahan gone through? It's called specialization, and DV brought something to the table. (More than just something, actually.) Edwards is an absolute joke.

And Dick was an absolute joke on the other side of the coin.

The sorry sad fact is, Carl's entire tenure is a study in head coaching futility.

[Reerun_KC]

And Dick was an absolute joke on the other side of the coin.

The sorry sad fact is, Carl's entire tenure is a study in head coaching futility.

We have done a complete 180 Milkman.. Herm is absolute Shit on the Offensive side of the ball....

We once were all Offense and no D

Now we will be all Defense and no O....

[chiefsfan1963]

And Dick was an absolute joke on the other side of the coin.

The sorry sad fact is, Carl's entire tenure is a study in head coaching futility.

No matter how you slice it DV would not have produced the most embarrassing NFL playoff loss for any team!

That legacy won't be there for him.

[KCJohnny]

We have done a complete 180 Milkman.. Herm is absolute Shit on the Offensive side of the ball....

We once were all Offense and no D

Now we will be all Defense and no O....

WRONG!!!!!!!!!
Now we are some defense and no offense. Please annotate.

[Hammock Parties]

You just don't want to acknowledge the job Gun did with ZERO stars on D and some vets, hopefuls and maintenance players. Without Gun's D today, we lose 56-0.

I'm acknlowedging that someone did an incredible job on defense this year. That someone is NOT Gunther Cunningham. It's Herm Edwards.

Gunther's claim to fame is drooling over talentless has-been's like Kendrell Bell.

[Coogs]

there isnt a Defense in the league that really would have done better in the RCA dome.

Defense did OK. Gave up a boatload of yardage and got a little lucky on some of Mannings decisions today. But overall they did OK. Not enough for me to see Gun as the almighty. And I can think of a couple of other defenses that could have done the same as the Chiefs did. Shoot, the Bears did it on a weekly basis last year with their 3 and out offense.

[KCJohnny]

No matter how you slice it DV would not have produced the most embarrassing NFL playoff loss for any team!

That legacy won't be there for him.

He's right. This has the negative potential of scarring the franchise for generations like the Bills losing 4 SBs. BAD NEWS. :shake:

[Coach]

It would be nice to have a GM that understands the importance of having a coach that understands offense as well as a defense.

[milkman]

No matter how you slice it DV would not have produced the most embarrassing NFL playoff loss for any team!

That legacy won't be there for him.

Maybe not.

All I know for certain is that it doesn't matter if you suck the left cheek, or the right cheek.
Either way, you are still sucking ass.

[Coogs]

Get a %^&*()%$ clue, dude.

I was referring to your quote that Gun made a defense out of crappy defenders. Shinola out of $#!+, was your terms. All the players on that D were the ones Gun wanted. You may have been overseas or something, but Gun gave CP his shopping list, and CP filled it plus a few players like DJ, Hali, and Law.

[Hammock Parties]

Didn't Gunther want that waste of skin Siavii, too?

Yep, Gunther is AWESOME. He totally doesn't need Herm.

We should have promoted Al Saunders to head coach so the offense would kick ass while Gunther raised the D up on high all by himself!

[kcxiv]

Defense did OK. Gave up a boatload of yardage and got a little lucky on some of Mannings decisions today. But overall they did OK. Not enough for me to see Gun as the almighty. And I can think of a couple of other defenses that could have done the same as the Chiefs did. Shoot, the Bears did it on a weekly basis last year with their 3 and out offense.
I said better, i didnt say the same. In all honesty thats about the best you can do to indy at home. They are just to good of an offense at home.

The whole game plan was to keep everything in front becuase if you blitz he will burn you for big yards. Whats the old saying, you cant stop them you can only hope to contain. Well thats what they did, and the offense just didnt show up.

[FringeNC]

And Dick was an absolute joke on the other side of the coin.

The sorry sad fact is, Carl's entire tenure is a study in head coaching futility.

Yeah, DV's D at Philly and at StL were jokes, right? The sad fact is that we traded in a HOF coach for a sub-100 IQ asshhole.

[milkman]

Yeah, DV's D at Philly and at StL were jokes, right? The sad fact is that we traded in a HOF coach for a sub-100 IQ asshhole.

I don't give a rat's ass what Dick did in Philly or StL or Bumfuk, Egypt.

What he did in KC for 5 years was field one of the shittiest defense the NFL had ever seen.

**** him and his wonderful ****in' O.
**** Hermie and his wonderful ****in' D.

**** Carl and his old boy network.

They can all kiss my ass and suck your dick, cause I'm ****ing tired of fielding half assed teams.

[Coach]

I don't give a rat's ass what Dick did in Philly or StL or Bumfuk, Egypt.

What he did in KC for 5 years was field one of the shittiest defense the NFL had ever seen.

**** him and his wonderful ****in' O.
**** Hermie and his wonderful ****in' D.

**** Carl and his old boy network.

They can all kiss my ass and suck your dick, cause I'm ****ing tired of fielding half assed teams.

Amen.

[FringeNC]

I don't give a rat's ass what Dick did in Philly or StL or Bumfuk, Egypt.

What he did in KC for 5 years was field one of the shittiest defense the NFL had ever seen.

**** him and his wonderful ****in' O.
**** Hermie and his wonderful ****in' D.

**** Carl and his old boy network.

They can all kiss my ass and suck your dick, cause I'm ****ing tired of fielding half assed teams.

I agree Carl has to go. At least with DV in charge of the offense, we had one half of the equation taken care of. Now, under Carl and Herm, there is no hope -- we're 0 for 2.

[Coogs]

I said better, i didnt say the same. In all honesty thats about the best you can do to indy at home. They are just to good of an offense at home.

The whole game plan was to keep everything in front becuase if you blitz he will burn you for big yards. Whats the old saying, you cant stop them you can only hope to contain. Well thats what they did, and the offense just didnt show up.

I agree, the defense did fine. But I am not convince that Guns defense is the reason we were not 4-12 as the thread title indicates.

[blueballs]

when Carl goes
Matt Millen will be primed to step in

[chiefsfan1963]

Amen.


Yeah come on get it out of your system sir. It will be alright. Don't worry everything will be fine. Yeah try not to focus on just what happen today .
Yeah point fingers at other HC's keep diverting attention to something else. Ventilate ! Breath Breath!

[grandllama]

Herm came in and castrated the offense.

[el borracho]

No matter how you slice it DV would not have produced the most embarrassing NFL playoff loss for any team!

That legacy won't be there for him.
On the contrary, DV hosted the most embarrassing NFL playoff loss. DV's 13-3, #1 seed playoff team did not force a single punt. That "D" was so embarrassing that the NFL commisioner made jokes about it at an official NFL ceremony.

Losing this year sucked but we were the surprise #6 seed playoff team. Noone really expected us to go far in the postseason.

[KCJohnny]

Herm came in and castrated the offense.

For good or for evil, there it is.

[el borracho]

Herm came in and castrated the offense.
I don't know why Herm cut Roaf the night before camp and got Welbourne suspended. I bet, in hindsight, Herm probably regrets those moves. Herm probably shouldn't have cut Holmes either or held Green out for half the season. Yeah, Herm is pretty dumb.

[KCJohnny]

I don't know why Herm cut Roaf the night before camp and got Welbourne suspended. I bet, in hindsight, Herm probably regrets those moves. Herm probably shouldn't have cut Holmes either or held Green out for half the season. Yeah, Herm is pretty dumb.

Please see box score from Indy 23, KC 8.

:shake:

[el borracho]

Dude, all that box score tells me is that the Colts are a better football team than the Chiefs right now. Yes, Herm is partly to blame for that but it is not entirely his fault. Please just admit that other events happened which were beyond his (or anybody's) control.

[kcxiv]

I agree, the defense did fine. But I am not convince that Guns defense is the reason we were not 4-12 as the thread title indicates.
oh, me either, but Gun's D today played about the best football you can play against the Colts at home.

[kcxiv]

On the contrary, DV hosted the most embarrassing NFL playoff loss. DV's 13-3, #1 seed playoff team did not force a single punt. That "D" was so embarrassing that the NFL commisioner made jokes about it at an official NFL ceremony.

Losing this year sucked but we were the surprise #6 seed playoff team. Noone really expected us to go far in the postseason.
lol, We didnt get far or anywhere for that matter. Least give us 1 play off win. lol

[Tribal Warfare]

I hope Gunther gets fired.....
A f*ckin MEN

[jAZ]

Herm came in and achieved "balance". That's what you could say after having a D suck so bad the past 5 years that getting under 300 points (we didn't) would have been a monumental achievement. But in the name of "balance" we took the league's best offense and demoted it to a predictable, 1-dimensional cliche that dropped SIXTEEN places in ranking and performed worse than almost any offense in NFL playoff history (126 yards of total offense).

I think without Gun trying to make shinola out of $#!+ with Herm's insistance on Cover 2, this team is horrible. The Colts game shows that the testicles are on D, and that is NOT because Herm "changed the focus". If DV was here, we'd be 14-2 and laughing at the Colts because he kept Gun. That said, this team had better realize that flushing DV's O leaves not much in its place. Thank God for Gun, because without him and these over-acheivers, this team is a waste of talent. Hopefully Gun stays and keeps this team at least semi-competitive.
The sick thing is you can see the vague outline of this guys Gunther-wood right there.

:Lin:

[EPodolak]

We have done a complete 180 Milkman.. Herm is absolute Shit on the Offensive side of the ball....

We once were all Offense and no D

Now we will be all Defense and no O....



Thats the direction it's going. These offensive superstars had better mutiny or get the hell out of Missouri while they can. Why squander a (relatively) short NFL career doing what you love for leadership that can't utilize your gift. I'll always love this franchise, even when the folks in charge make fools of us faithful.

[Bob Dole]

Everyone on offense is now a soprano.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

On the contrary, DV hosted the most embarrassing NFL playoff loss. DV's 13-3, #1 seed playoff team did not force a single punt. That "D" was so embarrassing that the NFL commisioner made jokes about it at an official NFL ceremony.

Losing this year sucked but we were the surprise #6 seed playoff team. Noone really expected us to go far in the postseason.


Our D gave up 38 points that day. Other playoff D's have given up far more points at home than that...far, far more. Today's showing was far more embarrassing. At least we had a f*cking shot in '03. Today's failed unit was so inept, it made the '03 defense look like the goddamned 2000 Ravens in comparison. Not getting a team to punt is one thing, but matching a 65 year old record for futility 1 year after having the #1 O against a historically bad defense is a whole 'nother ballgame. The degree of regression is staggering...staggering.

[kcxiv]

Our D gave up 38 points that day. Other playoff D's have given up far more points at home than that...far, far more. Today's showing was far more embarrassing. At least we had a f*cking shot in '03. Today's failed unit was so inept, it made the '03 defense look like the goddamned 2000 Ravens in comparison. Not getting a team to punt is one thing, but matching a 65 year old record for futility 1 year after having the #1 O against a historically bad defense is a whole 'nother ballgame. The degree of regression is staggering...staggering.
We had a shot today too, Even how bad our offense played, we had a damn good shot. Offense blew it. We more then likely score if trent didnt trip, we would have been up 7-6, and it would have been a new ball game. Same thing in 03, if priest didnt fumble it would have been a different game. 03 was pretty horrible. I didnt think we were going to win this game though. I thought we may have had a shot, but Petyon at home, no dice.

[|Zach|]

I think you would have to be a complete idiot the likes of which only comes around once every 10-15 years.

But hey, thats just my opinion.

[SPchief]

Our D gave up 38 points that day. Other playoff D's have given up far more points at home than that...far, far more.



Are you ****ing high?

[KCJohnny]

Today's failed unit was so inept, it made the '03 defense look like the goddamned 2000 Ravens in comparison. Not getting a team to punt is one thing, but matching a 65 year old record for futility 1 year after having the #1 O against a historically bad defense is a whole 'nother ballgame. The degree of regression is staggering...staggering.

My sentiments exactly. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

[J Diddy]

I don't know why Herm cut Roaf the night before camp and got Welbourne suspended. I bet, in hindsight, Herm probably regrets those moves. Herm probably shouldn't have cut Holmes either or held Green out for half the season. Yeah, Herm is pretty dumb.


run, run, run,punt
run, run, run,punt
run, run, run punt
run, run, run, punt
run, run, run, punt
run, run, pass punt
pass, pass, int
pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, run, td
pass, pass, int


that was the gameplan

herm's fault, yah, not entirely but mostly

[Brock]

Please see box score from Indy 23, KC 8.

:shake:

Too bad Indy didn't put in their backup QB, they probably would have scored a lot more.

[blueballs]

no shit
give Gun the AFC West or game tape he will be okay
give him something new and he is clueless

[WilliamTheIrish]

Without the heart demonstrated by the D, this game is a humiliation of Biblical proportions. The NFL's Top O from 2005 getting 126 yards of total offense against one of the worst defenses in history to ever make the playoffs. Yeah. Right. Fire Gun. :shake:

You don't think yesterday was a humiliation? It was total humiliation. Even with the plays made by the defense. They still gave up 450 yards.

For *Og's sake, what game were you watching?







*God. But I didn't want to use that word with you being a holy dude and all.

[WilliamTheIrish]

I don't give a rat's ass what Dick did in Philly or StL or Bumfuk, Egypt.

What he did in KC for 5 years was field one of the shittiest defense the NFL had ever seen.

**** him and his wonderful ****in' O.
**** Hermie and his wonderful ****in' D.

**** Carl and his old boy network.

They can all kiss my ass and suck your dick, cause I'm ****ing tired of fielding half assed teams.


Dude, you and me called this shit. Herm's Martyocre redux. All we can do is wait it out.

[KCJohnny]

I was pretty upset when I posted that. I was looking to say something positive, and the D was something positive. Even with the gaudy stats, our D kept us in that game til our 2nd to last turn over.

[WilliamTheIrish]

I was pretty upset when I posted that. I was looking to say something positive, and the D was something positive. Even with the gaudy stats, our D kept us in that game til our 2nd to last turn over.

I understand.

[milkman]

You don't think yesterday was a humiliation? It was total humiliation. Even with the plays made by the defense. They still gave up 450 yards.

For *Og's sake, what game were you watching?







*God. But I didn't want to use that word with you being a holy dude and all.

Gunt sent him a care package a few years ago while he was in the Middle East, so in his mind, Gunt can do no wrong.

He's just a couple rungs below Og.

[Iowanian]

Gunther sucks. This isn't even His defense.

Gunther's Defense was So bad....HERM even recognised it and implemented his Cover 2.

Gunther is incapable of in game corrections to his plan.

[Iowanian]

My fear is, Donnie Henderson was fired by the lions........

[htismaqe]

No matter how you slice it DV would not have produced the most embarrassing NFL playoff loss for any team!

That legacy won't be there for him.

Only a complete moron would be proud of not forcing a team to punt.

[KCJohnny]

Gunther sucks. This isn't even His defense.

Gunther's Defense was So bad....HERM even recognised it and implemented his Cover 2.

Gunther is incapable of in game corrections to his plan.

You sir, just illustrated your imperfect understanding of NFL football. The 1997 Chiefs defense under Gunther Cunningham set a league record by going 8 straight games without allowing a TD in the 2nd half. If that isn't skill at halftime adjustments, there is no such thing as halftime adjustments.

[Hammock Parties]

You sir, just illustrated your imperfect understanding of NFL football. The 1997 Chiefs defense under Gunther Cunningham set a league record by going 8 straight games without allowing a TD in the 2nd half. If that isn't skill at halftime adjustments, there is no such thing as halftime adjustments.

We've seen time and time against since Gunther returned that he can't do it. How about that Cleveland game? How about any multitude of games from 2004 and 2005?

Gunther needs top-notch talent and a defensive head coach to hold his hand in order to "coordinate" a good defense. He's a glorified cheerleader.

[Mr. Laz]

Gun is running Herm's defense...

there is no way that Gun would choose to play such a passive defense ... he just doesn't have the patience.


he still can't teach a blitz to save his own arse.



nope ... Gunther is pretty average without the ready-made pass rush of Thomas/Smith to lean on.

[Iowanian]

Would you like to use your football genius to review the effects of Gunther's last 2 defensive efforts?

Very, very little of this version(see tampa 2) has ANYTHING to do with Gunther. I was a supporter, but he's done nothing this season but prove his ability to adjust during the game are pathetic. I can pull specific numbers if you require them.

You sir, just illustrated your imperfect understanding of NFL football. The 1997 Chiefs defense under Gunther Cunningham set a league record by going 8 straight games without allowing a TD in the 2nd half. If that isn't skill at halftime adjustments, there is no such thing as halftime adjustments.

[BigMeatballDave]

Without the heart demonstrated by the D, this game is a humiliation of Biblical proportions. The NFL's Top O from 2005 getting 126 yards of total offense against one of the worst defenses in history to ever make the playoffs. Yeah. Right. Fire Gun. :shake:Like the heart they showed in Cleveland?

[BigMeatballDave]

At least it is his $#!+. All the players on defense are the ones he wanted, plus a couple of draft picks and Law thrown in.

And you know it was a bad day when a defense that gives up 450 total yards (188 yards rushing) is the bright spot.Holding Indy's O to 23 points in the dome is pretty damn good. If our O had come to play, we would have blown them out.

[Iowanian]

Allowing INDY to run for nearly 200 yards is anything but positive. The entire middle of the D is a butt pickle.

[Reerun_KC]

Holding Indy's O to 23 points in the dome is pretty damn good. If our O had come to play, we would have blown them out.


Um they did come to play and excuted Herms gameplan to perfection...


What we witnessed is what you get with Herm... Beautiful match of wits and adjustments by Herm and his staff...

[KCJohnny]

Holding Indy's O to 23 points in the dome is pretty damn good. If our O had come to play, we would have blown them out.

If the offense gets even 10 1st downs, you can take 100-150 yds of Indy's total offense off the box score. We left that D on the field for FORTY minutes against the Colts at the RCA Dome.

[penchief]

Herm came in and achieved "balance". That's what you could say after having a D suck so bad the past 5 years that getting under 300 points (we didn't) would have been a monumental achievement. But in the name of "balance" we took the league's best offense and demoted it to a predictable, 1-dimensional cliche that dropped SIXTEEN places in ranking and performed worse than almost any offense in NFL playoff history (126 yards of total offense).

I think without Gun trying to make shinola out of $#!+ with Herm's insistance on Cover 2, this team is horrible. The Colts game shows that the testicles are on D, and that is NOT because Herm "changed the focus". If DV was here, we'd be 14-2 and laughing at the Colts because he kept Gun. That said, this team had better realize that flushing DV's O leaves not much in its place. Thank God for Gun, because without him and these over-acheivers, this team is a waste of talent. Hopefully Gun stays and keeps this team at least semi-competitive.

I agree. I was also inspired by our defense.

However, I strongly disagree with your attempts to give credit to Gunther Cunningham. I think this defense has improved in spite of Gunther. If we are predictable on offense we are even more predictable with his blitzes. We get burned every time Gunther blitzes. This defense improved as soon as Herman Edwards put his stamp on it. Herm's defense is playing with a better plan and with more purpose and pride. Gunther hasn't been able to do anything, IMO, unless he's got a couple of studs coming off the ends ala, DT and Neil Smith. Hali's arrival (Herm's pick) has enhanced the defense in this way and has given us a foundation to build on.

IMO, Gunther is clueless. This is Edward's defense. Hali, Page, & Pollard are just the first step in making this defense dominant again.

JMHO.

[WilliamTheIrish]

If the offense gets even 10 1st downs, you can take 100-150 yds of Indy's total offense off the box score. We left that D on the field for FORTY minutes against the Colts at the RCA Dome.

Baloney.

Your ridiculous love for Gunther has you believing the defense was doing anything but playing The Little Dutch Boy defense. The Colts got at least one first down on every drive until their 4th series of the second half. Which was with about 4:30 to play in the game. In reality, the defense was on the field so much because they couldn't get a stop. At all.
Law came to the rescue. And so did Page.

The O was horrible. We all realize that. The D was ..... somewhere between bad and almost okay.
======================================================


Colts drives:
First Half
1 - 3 1st downs
3 - 2 1st downs
4 - 2 1st downs
5 - 4 1st downs
6 - 2 1st downs
Second Half
1 - 2 1st downs
2 - 5 1st downs
3 - 4 1st downs
4 - 0 1st downs
5 - 0 1st downs
6 - 0 1st downs

[kcxiv]

I agree. I was also inspired by our defense.

However, I strongly disagree with your attempts to give credit to Gunther Cunningham. I think this defense has improved in spite of Gunther. If we are predictable on offense we are even more predictable with his blitzes. We get burned every time Gunther blitzes. This defense improved as soon as Herman Edwards put his stamp on it. Herm's defense is playing with a better plan and with more purpose and pride. Gunther hasn't been able to do anything, IMO, unless he's got a couple of studs coming off the ends ala, DT and Neil Smith. Hali's arrival (Herm's pick) has enhanced the defense in this way and has given us a foundation to build on.

IMO, Gunther is clueless. This is Edward's defense. Hali, Page, & Pollard are just the first step in making this defense dominant again.

JMHO.
Any team that has a great Defense has GREAT players. Bears, have Great players. Dolphins have Great players. Ravens? again, Great players. Chiefs? we dont have that. Guntharr had to come in here with Vermeils garbage and grab a few players in free agency to try to get a lil balance of talent on the team.

This team has 2 possible players that can become great that are young. Allen and DJ. Hali i think will be good, but he wont ever be a great players. Maybe Page and Pollard have a chance, we just havent seen that much of them on Defense. Not like we have seen Allen and DJ.

[milkman]

Any team that has a great Defense has GREAT players. Bears, have Great players. Dolphins have Great players. Ravens? again, Great players. Chiefs? we dont have that. Guntharr had to come in here with Vermeils garbage and grab a few players in free agency to try to get a lil balance of talent on the team.

This team has 2 possible players that can become great that are young. Allen and DJ. Hali i think will be good, but he wont ever be a great players. Maybe Page and Pollard have a chance, we just havent seen that much of them on Defense. Not like we have seen Allen and DJ.

Tell me about alll those great players on the Philly defense over the years under Jimmy Johnson.

That defense has always been better than the sum of it's parts because JJ maximizes the talent he has to work with.

He has had a couple of outstanding players, but he has never been loaded.

The same could be said of the talent in Carolina.
Couple of outstanding players again, but again better than the sum of the parts.

And there is, of course, the Patriots this decade.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Tell me about alll those great players on the Philly defense over the years under Jimmy Johnson.

That defense has always been better than the sum of it's parts because JJ maximizes the talent he has to work with.

He has had a couple of outstanding players, but he has never been loaded.

The same could be said of the talent in Carolina.
Couple of outstanding players again, but again better than the sum of the parts.

And there is, of course, the Patriots this decade.

Blitzing is bad, it's a cover up for a lack of talent/htismaqe

[kcxiv]

Blitzing is bad, it's a cover up for a lack of talent/htismaqe
Yep, every coach will tell ya they rather never blitz and hope their front 4 can get to the QB like the Bears.

[kcxiv]

Blitzing is bad, it's a cover up for a lack of talent/htismaqe
Yep, every coach will tell ya they rather never blitz and hope their front 4 can get to the QB like the Bears.



BLitzing is what desperate teams do. Then again, it doesnt matter how you get to the QB as long as you do.


Also, for some of New Englands runs, they had Bruschi, Mcginist. Laywer Milloy. Ty Law, Rodney Harrision. Them are some pretty damn good players in their prime.

[KCJohnny]

Any team that has a great Defense has GREAT players. Bears, have Great players. Dolphins have Great players. Ravens? again, Great players. Chiefs? we dont have that. Guntharr had to come in here with Vermeils garbage and grab a few players in free agency to try to get a lil balance of talent on the team.

This team has 2 possible players that can become great that are young. Allen and DJ. Hali i think will be good, but he wont ever be a great players. Maybe Page and Pollard have a chance, we just havent seen that much of them on Defense. Not like we have seen Allen and DJ.

I think that's fair. I think people forget just how bad this defense was 2002-2004. Biblical proportions. Very, very bad.

I admit I love Gun, tho not for the personal reasons some wags like to chide me about. I just like his defenses over the years. He is hyper agressive. My gosh, Herm is laid back, Solari is a rookie OC, without SOMEBODY fired up on this staff, we don't have much attitude. You sure as hell didn't haer any defensive players talking about how things need to change in THEIR scheme... :hmmm:

[milkman]

Yep, every coach will tell ya they rather never blitz and hope their front 4 can get to the QB like the Bears.



BLitzing is what desperate teams do. Then again, it doesnt matter how you get to the QB as long as you do.


Also, for some of New Englands runs, they had Bruschi, Mcginist. Laywer Milloy. Ty Law, Rodney Harrision. Them are some pretty damn good players in their prime.

And they also played pretty solid defense with Randall Gay and Troy Brown in their secondary.

[penchief]

I think that's fair. I think people forget just how bad this defense was 2002-2004. Biblical proportions. Very, very bad.

I admit I love Gun, tho not for the personal reasons some wags like to chide me about. I just like his defenses over the years. He is hyper agressive. My gosh, Herm is laid back, Solari is a rookie OC, without SOMEBODY fired up on this staff, we don't have much attitude. You sure as hell didn't haer any defensive players talking about how things need to change in THEIR scheme... :hmmm:


He's never had a good defense that didn't consist of Derrick Thomas, Neil Smith, Dale Carter, or James Hasty. I agree that it takes good players but I also think it takes a good defensive coordinator and I don't think Gunther is a good one. I think this is Herman Edwards' defense, not Gunther's. I think Gunther's job is to implement Herm's defense.

Hali is the only regular other than Law (mediocre season) and the journeymen DTs (Reed & Edwards) that is new to this defense. Page has great potential but as far as this season goes his contributions have been sometimes spectacular but overall modest. The players that Gunther brought in have either been busts or are already gone (Siavvi, Bell, etc.)

I think the best thing that could happen to this team is a new offensive coordinator. If Herm were not a defensive-minded coach we'd need a new defensive coordinator, too. I know that both Peterson and Edwards are loyal to Gunther and I don't think Cunningham has the menatality to resign if he thought he wasn't up to the task. So I think we're stuck with him. He's fiery and he might make a good linebackers coach but I don't think he's a good defensive coordinator.

The difference between this year's defense and last year's defense is Herman Edwards, the 2006 draft, a couple of journeyman DTs, and the new scheme, all of which are Edward's doing. Blitz happy Gunther only knows how to telegraph blitzes. When that doesn't work then he's lost, IMO.

[KCJohnny]

Blitz happy Gunther only knows how to telegraph blitzes. When that doesn't work then he's lost, IMO.

This has become the new en vogue cliche.
This D gave up the fewest points since 1999. Its not great, but its good and getting better.

[Iowanian]

This wasn't Gunther's scheme.

Did you happen to see how effective Gunther's scheme was LAST season?

[KCJohnny]

This wasn't Gunther's scheme.

Did you happen to see how effective Gunther's scheme was LAST season?
Well, we won 10 games with a pretty weak roster.

[Iowanian]

Yeah....that had nothing to do with teh offense putting up 42 points per game....and sometimes giving up 45

[Chiefnj]

Gunther can coach a good defense if you surround him with very good talent.

[|Zach|]

This has become the new en vogue cliche.
This D gave up the fewest points since 1999. Its not great, but its good and getting better.
Your welcome,

Herm Edwards.

[htismaqe]

Tell me about alll those great players on the Philly defense over the years under Jimmy Johnson.

That defense has always been better than the sum of it's parts because JJ maximizes the talent he has to work with.

He has had a couple of outstanding players, but he has never been loaded.

The same could be said of the talent in Carolina.
Couple of outstanding players again, but again better than the sum of the parts.

And there is, of course, the Patriots this decade.

Carolina plays zone defense. They don't blitz like Philly does at all.

[KCJohnny]

Gunther can coach a good defense if you surround him with very good talent.

Please, provide us with the name of a DC that can use the Chiefs 2005 roster and dominate opponents.

[kcxiv]

He's never had a good defense that didn't consist of Derrick Thomas, Neil Smith, Dale Carter, or James Hasty. I agree that it takes good players but I also think it takes a good defensive coordinator and I don't think Gunther is a good one. I think this is Herman Edwards' defense, not Gunther's. I think Gunther's job is to implement Herm's defense.

Hali is the only regular other than Law (mediocre season) and the journeymen DTs (Reed & Edwards) that is new to this defense. Page has great potential but as far as this season goes his contributions have been sometimes spectacular but overall modest. The players that Gunther brought in have either been busts or are already gone (Siavvi, Bell, etc.)

I think the best thing that could happen to this team is a new offensive coordinator. If Herm were not a defensive-minded coach we'd need a new defensive coordinator, too. I know that both Peterson and Edwards are loyal to Gunther and I don't think Cunningham has the menatality to resign if he thought he wasn't up to the task. So I think we're stuck with him. He's fiery and he might make a good linebackers coach but I don't think he's a good defensive coordinator.

The difference between this year's defense and last year's defense is Herman Edwards, the 2006 draft, a couple of journeyman DTs, and the new scheme, all of which are Edward's doing. Blitz happy Gunther only knows how to telegraph blitzes. When that doesn't work then he's lost, IMO.
First, off, Peterson is NOT loyal to Guntharr, if he was he wouldnt have fired hiim over the internet. SO we can lay that to rest.

2ndly, the D showed flashes of bieng good last year. they were inconsistant as hell, but they were making progress.


About Gun only knowing blitz's how did he contain Manning? The announcers during saturdays game said they talked to Gun before the game, and he told them he would not blitz much becuase Manning will burn you. WHile Herm may have a little bit to do with what he wants ran. I am prettty sure it was Guntharr's gameplan. I could be wrong, but you could be too, we really dont know as we dont know Herm ro Gun personally.

THen you talk about some of the busts Gun brought in. What about some of the people that he did pick up? Allen, DJ, and Surtain.

Hell Patriots tried to get ****ing Warfield on their team. Everyone makes a mistake.


I could care less of Gun stays or goes.I want the Chiefs to do what they gotta do to win, but most people here just have so much hate towards something they wont even look at both sides of it.

[Extra Point]

We were a 4-12 team that finished 9-7. Two weeks from now, it's business as usual. Next slogan:

The Kansas City Chiefs: Lowering fan expectations for over thirty years, and performing beyond them!

[Chiefnj]

Please, provide us with the name of a DC that can use the Chiefs 2005 roster and dominate opponents.

Don't blame the roster. That was Gunther's roster. Gun asked for those players. They were handpicked by him. If he couldn't get them to play well, it's his fault.

[htismaqe]

Please, provide us with the name of a DC that can use the Chiefs 2005 roster and dominate opponents.

Rob Ryan.

He took a defense with arguably LESS talent and he not only produced, he did so in spite of an offense that played like we did on Saturday for an ENTIRE SEASON.

[Mr. Laz]

wow ... i don't think i was around when KcJohnny was in full force last time.

dude is passionate ... gotta give him that. LMAO

[KCJohnny]

Rob Ryan.

He took a defense with arguably LESS talent and he not only produced, he did so in spite of an offense that played like we did on Saturday for an ENTIRE SEASON.

Fair enough. Still, I'll take Gun over Ryan head-to-head. Good point, though.

[htismaqe]

Fair enough. Still, I'll take Gun over Ryan head-to-head. Good point, though.

So I have a good point, but you'd still take Gun? At least you're willing to admit your bias.

[KCJohnny]

So I have a good point, but you'd still take Gun? At least you're willing to admit your bias.

Every word I post on here is unmitigated bias embellished with self-aggrandizing bombast. I thought that was the point. :shrug:

[Mile High Mania]

wow ... i don't think i was around when KcJohnny was in full force last time.

dude is passionate ... gotta give him that. LMAO

Well, Gunther signed something for him and mailed it to him... that cemented KCJ's devotion to the dude.

[penchief]

First, off, Peterson is NOT loyal to Guntharr, if he was he wouldnt have fired hiim over the internet. SO we can lay that to rest.

That's why Peterson brought him back, right? Why would he have done that? Why did Gunther return? Peterson's love for Gunther has been well-documented. Why else would a GM in the NFL bring back a guy that he fired previously regardless of his performance? Loyalty would be my guess.

2ndly, the D showed flashes of bieng good last year. they were inconsistant as hell, but they were making progress.

When you have few outstanding players (Allen, DJ) you will show flashes but not consistency. Great players alone do not guarantee consistency. Good coaching and a good scheme go farther in doing that. The credit goes to Herm, IMO.

About Gun only knowing blitz's how did he contain Manning? The announcers during saturdays game said they talked to Gun before the game, and he told them he would not blitz much becuase Manning will burn you. WHile Herm may have a little bit to do with what he wants ran. I am prettty sure it was Guntharr's gameplan. I could be wrong, but you could be too, we really dont know as we dont know Herm ro Gun personally.

I'm pretty sure it was Herm's gameplan.


THen you talk about some of the busts Gun brought in. What about some of the people that he did pick up? Allen, DJ, and Surtain.

I don't know but I'll bet Allen was Vermeil's choice because he reminded him of his beloved Grant Wistrom. Gunther has tended to prefer project/potential guys like Siavvi/Battle/Bartee/Carlos Hall, etc. rather than production guys like Allen and Hali. Derrick Johnson was a no-brainer that we were fortunate to have fall to us.

I could care less of Gun stays or goes.I want the Chiefs to do what they gotta do to win, but most people here just have so much hate towards something they wont even look at both sides of it.

I hardly have hatred for Gunther. I like the guy. I just don't have any faith in his ability to orchestrate a top tier defense without a defensive-minded head coach like Herm or Marty looking over his shoulder.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Hell Patriots tried to get ****ing Warfield on their team. Everyone makes a mistake.

They didn't play him for 6 years. They didn't give him 28 million dollars.

[KCJohnny]

That's why Peterson brought him back, right? Why would he have done that? Why did Gunther return? Peterson's love for Gunther has been well-documented. Why else would a GM in the NFL bring back a guy that he fired previously regardless of his performance? Loyalty would be my guess.


It was Mr. Hunt who directed CP to bring Gun back.

[Brock]

It was Mr. Hunt who directed CP to bring Gun back.

Ha ha. Yeah right.

[KCJohnny]

Ha ha. Yeah right.

I guess you don't get local TV.

[58-4ever]

This topic is laughable. The same Gun that refused to blitz two crappy quarterbacks in Cleveland? Ha. ROFL

[Brock]

I guess you don't get local TV.

I don't need local TV to tell me that statement is BS.

[penchief]

It was Mr. Hunt who directed CP to bring Gun back.

And was it Mr. Hunt that directed him to fire Gunther? Nice try but get real.

[KCJohnny]

I don't need local TV to tell me that statement is BS.

Well you are wrong, Metro Sports ran the story on the event of Mr. Hunt's funeral. I am sure other locals heard it, too.

[kcxiv]

They didn't play him for 6 years. They didn't give him 28 million dollars.
well the good thing is gun had NOTHING to do with that. I know the Chiefs made a huge mistake, but my post is for backing up Guntharr not stupid ass carl.

[penchief]

Well you are wrong, Metro Sports ran the story on the event of Mr. Hunt's funeral. I am sure other locals heard it, too.

I would believe that Lamar Hunt gave Peterson the okay if Carl wanted to rehire Gunther but I can't believe that Lamar ordered Peterson to do so. That would be out of character for Lamar Hunt, IMO. That sounds ridiculous.

Gunther got fired for a reason and he got re-hired for a reason. I believe he was brought back out of loyalty for the defenses that he produced during his previous stint as DC and for his loyalty toward the organization. I believe that Hunt and Peterson both had an affection for Gunther because Cunningham bleeds chiefs red.

However, lets not forget that the defense started going downhill as soon as Marty left and showed it's first signifigant improvement once Herm arrived. I don't think that's coincidence.

[kcxiv]

I'm pretty sure it was Herm's gameplan.





Pretty sures dont work. We dont know whos plan it was, you can speculate all you want, but you still dont relaly know, and either do i.

I don't know but I'll bet Allen was Vermeil's choice because he reminded him of his beloved Grant Wistrom. Gunther has tended to prefer project/potential guys like Siavvi/Battle/Bartee/Carlos Hall, etc. rather than production guys like Allen and Hali. Derrick Johnson was a no-brainer that we were fortunate to have fall to us. Again, you dont really know. It was all speculating. That's why Peterson brought him back, right? Why would he have done that? Why did Gunther return? Peterson's love for Gunther has been well-documented. Why else would a GM in the NFL bring back a guy that he fired previously regardless of his performance? Loyalty would be my guess. If your loyal to someone you DO NOT i repeat you do NOT fire them over the internet. I dont care how you spin it. You just dont do that to someone your loyal to.

[Brock]

And was it Mr. Hunt that directed him to fire Gunther? Nice try but get real.

No kidding. That's the most ridiculous thing I've read all day. Just utter nonsense.

[penchief]

Pretty sures dont work. We dont know whos plan it was, you can speculate all you want, but you still dont relaly know, and either do i.

I'm going by each coach's track record. We're playing Herm's style of defense, not Gunther's. If it walks like Herm's defense and quacks like Herm's defense, then it's probably Herm's defense.

Again, you dont really know. It was all speculating. If your loyal to someone you DO NOT i repeat you do NOT fire them over the internet. I dont care how you spin it. You just dont do that to someone your loyal to.

Does anyone really know how that all went down? Could it have been nothing more than Carl being responsible for the cart arriving before horse without it being a case of disrespect?

Gunther was brought back without doing anything significant to merit that return other than his previous performance as Chiefs DC. Certainly, his development of Keith Bullock doesn't earn him a new DC job by itself?

Also, it's no coincidence that our defense started going downhill after Marty left and only made a significant improvement once Herm's scheme was installed and Edwards brought in a bunch of his type players.

[Mr. Laz]

Pretty sures dont work. We dont know whos plan it was, you can speculate all you want, but you still dont relaly know, and either do i
we don't need to know.....


Herman Edwards is the coach ... he's responsible for the gameplan on both sides of the ball.


Even if he "does nothing" he is making the decision by absentia.

[kcxiv]

I'm going by each coach's track record. We're playing Herm's style of defense, not Gunther's. If it walks like Herm's defense and quacks like Herm's defense, then it's probably Herm's defense.



Does anyone really know how that all went down? Could it have been nothing more than Carl being responsible for the cart arriving before horse without it being a case of disrespect?

Gunther was brought back without doing anything significant to merit that return other than his previous performance as Chiefs DC. Certainly, his development of Keith Bullock doesn't earn him a new DC job by itself?

Also, it's no coincidence that our defense started going downhill after Marty left and only made a significant improvement once Herm's scheme was installed and Edwards brought in a bunch of his type players.
actually yes, Guntharr said he was surfing the internet and he seen that was was out as coach. so thats how that went down. I even think Carl at one point admited to it, and said it was totally wrong by his part.

I also think i remmeber Gun saying he played alot of cover 2 last year as well.

[penchief]

actually yes, Guntharr said he was surfing the internet and he seen that was was out as coach. so thats how that went down. I even think Carl at one point admited to it, and said it was totally wrong by his part.

I also think i remmeber Gun saying he played alot of cover 2 last year as well.

I know but listen to what I'm asking.

Do you really believe that Peterson had so much contempt for Gunther that he did not intend to meet with him? Do you really think that Peterson's plan was for Gunther to find out while surfing the internet? I mean, com'n.

It sounds like that side of the story came from Gunther. And why would Cunningham reveal that if he wasn't looking for sympathy or if he wasn't angry? If Peterson really intended to disrespect Gunther why would he rehire him? And why, if Lamar Hunt approved of his firing would he order his rehiring?

Was Cunningham aware that his job was on the line? Probably. Is it possible that he was obsessed with his status? Is it possible that his obsession with the status of his job motivated him to be surfing the net for Chiefs news?

Like I said, isn't it possible that Peterson allowed the cart to get before the horse without it being an intentional act? And isn't it possible that others within the organization knew about it and proliferated the information before Peterson called Gunther?

Isn't it also possible that because Peterson respects Gunther and believes that Cunningham is a "true chief" that his guilt about how all that shit went down partially inspired him to give Cunningham another chance at the job Gunther loves, Kansas City Chiefs defensive coordinator.

I'm rooting for Gunther. I just hope he has the ability to adapt and change. I want him to be here when we hoist the Lamar Hunt Trophy. He is a true chief. I'll give him that.

[KCJohnny]

No kidding. That's the most ridiculous thing I've read all day. Just utter nonsense.

Fine. No skin off my teeth. Metro Sports reported that after Gun got fired, Mr. Hunt told him, "you're going into exhile for a while. After things die down, you are coming home to Kansas City where you belong." I gives a damn whether you believe me or not, that's what Gun said Mr. Hunt told him.

[Brock]

Yeah, you don't care whether anyone believes you, but you keep arguing with second hand blah blah that nobody but you heard, as if this somehow proves your original point that "Lamar ordered Carl to rehire Gunther". :rolleyes:

[Coogs]

Please, provide us with the name of a DC that can use the Chiefs 2005 roster and dominate opponents.

Remember, our 2005 defensive roster was hand picked by Gun himself.

[CHIEF4EVER]

Johnny, I have held my peace but now I am going to weigh in with my opinion.

1. I was on the "give Herm a chance" bandwagon because I thought that was the only way to be fair and it is. However, since he has been here Herm has neutered the Offense and made the D average vs. atrocious. Herm is the head coach. It is HIS responsibility and HIS ALONE to formulate the final game plan and give the instructions to his Coordinators to execute it. On the Offensive side of the ball he failed miserably. ESPECIALLY in the game on Saturday. Nobody on this planet can tell me he didn't know after the first series that running the ball up Wiegmanns ass was futile unless the pass opened up the run since Indy was keying on it (the run) so much (with 8 in the box nearly every play).

2. Gunther did a Journeymans job with the talent he has. No more, no less. I WILL say that he needs to improve drastically in his Second Half adjustments. Gunther didn't do the "Master's Job" of containing the Indy offense and saving us more embarrassment, Peyton Manning and Ty Law did. Mainly Peyton Manning. No QB in the friggin universe can throw 3 picks and still win a football game at this level unless the picks are squandered. They were and not just by the Offense. After TG's Touchdown, Gunther's "embarrassment saving" D managed to give up the ass and let Indy score 7.

[KCJohnny]

Johnny, I have held my peace but now I am going to weigh in with my opinion.

1. I was on the "give Herm a chance" bandwagon because I thought that was the only way to be fair and it is. However, since he has been here Herm has neutered the Offense and made the D average vs. atrocious. Herm is the head coach. It is HIS responsibility and HIS ALONE to formulate the final game plan and give the instructions to his Coordinators to execute it. On the Offensive side of the ball he failed miserably. ESPECIALLY in the game on Saturday. Nobody on this planet can tell me he didn't know after the first series that running the ball up Wiegmanns ass was futile unless the pass opened up the run since Indy was keying on it (the run) so much (with 8 in the box nearly every play).

2. Gunther did a Journeymans job with the talent he has. No more, no less. I WILL say that he needs to improve drastically in his Second Half adjustments. Gunther didn't do the "Master's Job" of containing the Indy offense and saving us more embarrassment, Peyton Manning and Ty Law did. Mainly Peyton Manning. No QB in the friggin universe can throw 3 picks and still win a football game at this level unless the picks are squandered. They were and not just by the Offense. After TG's Touchdown, Gunther's "embarrassment saving" D managed to give up the ass and let Indy score 7.

Fair enough, I have no problem with that analysis. my thread topic does not suggest that Gun = Buddy ryan, but that without Gun, things are even worse now than they would be otherwise. JMO, nothing more.

I think its a fair analysis that Herm grounded the O and improved the D. That gets you 9-8.
I disagree that the d gave up the ___. They took the ball away 4x and got ZILCH for it. On the field 40 minutes against the [soon to be] most prolific passer in NFL history at HOME.

[kcxiv]

2. Gunther did a Journeymans job with the talent he has. No more, no less. I WILL say that he needs to improve drastically in his Second Half adjustments. Gunther didn't do the "Master's Job" of containing the Indy offense and saving us more embarrassment, Peyton Manning and Ty Law did. Mainly Peyton Manning. No QB in the friggin universe can throw 3 picks and still win a football game at this level unless the picks are squandered. They were and not just by the Offense. After TG's Touchdown, Gunther's "embarrassment saving" D managed to give up the ass and let Indy score 7.
After TG's score and the Colts was on the Field, the D was done they were tired. THey were already passed 35 min on the field because of the horrible offensive performance we saw. Everyone on the Defense was done. They played great 3 quarters, but in the 4th is when you get tired. Thats when teams pull away, and thats what the colts did thanks to the offense. THe defense we played against Indy on sat was the PERFECT scheme and gameplan. Gun did not have to adjust the game plan it was great the whole game.

Gun did a incredible job against the Colts. To bad it was all wasted because of that Raiderlike performance on Offense.

[CHIEF4EVER]

After TG's score and the Colts was on the Field, the D was done they were tired. THey were already passed 35 min on the field because of the horrible offensive performance we saw. Everyone on the Defense was done. They played great 3 quarters, but in the 4th is when you get tired. Thats when teams pull away, and thats what the colts did thanks to the offense. THe defense we played against Indy on sat was the PERFECT scheme and gameplan. Gun did not have to adjust the game plan it was great the whole game.

Gun did a incredible job against the Colts. To bad it was all wasted because of that Raiderlike performance on Offense.
I won't deny that Gun did an OK job. But just OK. Ty Law and Peyton Manning kept us in the game. Ty Law by virtue of his 2 picks, Peyton Manning by throwing them. Neither had anything to do with Gun.

[KCJohnny]

I won't deny that Gun did an OK job. But just OK. Ty Law and Peyton Manning kept us in the game. Ty Law by virtue of his 2 picks, Peyton Manning by throwing them. Neither had anything to do with Gun.

If Law or Wesley miss tackles, its Gun's fault. If Our DBs make plays, its because they are good players. See how that works?

:banghead:

[CHIEF4EVER]

If Law or Wesley miss tackles, its Gun's fault. If Our DBs make plays, its because they are good players. See how that works?

:banghead:

Don't compare apples to oranges. Ty Law caught the dumbass throws made by Peyton "Mamas Boy" Manning. It had nothing to do with Gunther's "Scheme".

[Extra Point]

Nobody broadcast that Colquitt got the game ball.

[Hammock Parties]

This one was worth a bump.

[Coach]

Man, talk about a big epic FAIL.

[Deberg_1990]

HAHAH

Once again KCJohnny proves his keen football insight.

[Hammock Parties]

He's right, though.

Without Gun the 2008 Chiefs might have been 4-12 instead of 2-14.

[Mecca]

KCJ one of the last Gunther defenders.

[DeezNutz]

Gun's rhetoric fooled a lot of people...

[Deberg_1990]

He's right, though.

Without Gun the 2008 Chiefs might have been 4-12 instead of 2-14.

ROFL

[Mecca]

Gun's rhetoric fooled a lot of people...

Do you think KCJ cut off his sleeves and grew a beard?

[DeezNutz]

Do you think KCJ cut off his sleeves and grew a beard?

He doesn't need a stage for what he's about to do.

[FringeNC]

Gun's rhetoric fooled a lot of people...

Half the people have sub-100 IQs.

[Tits McGee]

Awesome thread. Simply amazing.

The thread should be titled, "Chiefs without a gun is 4-12 team."

[CoMoChief]

Gun would have fun coaching a 3-4

[Crush]

Who?

[ChiefGator]

He's right, though.

Without Gun the 2008 Chiefs might have been 4-12 instead of 2-14.

'zactly.. that's how I read the title... funny, funny stuff. What the hell ever happened to KCJohnny? That dude was a fun little Marty, Gun, (and finally) Herm cheerleader.

[boogblaster]

... gun needed for varmit control .. apply at Raiders Cheerleading Corp .com ....

[Hammock Parties]

'zactly.. that's how I read the title... funny, funny stuff. What the hell ever happened to KCJohnny? That dude was a fun little Marty, Gun, (and finally) Herm cheerleader.

He's still here...hating on Haley....wishing he was good man of god like Herm.

[Mecca]

Isn't he also a Thigpen supporter?

[Hammock Parties]

Isn't he also a Thigpen supporter?

I think he loves all that is white, chaste and hard-working.

[Fat Elvis]

'zactly.. that's how I read the title... funny, funny stuff. What the hell ever happened to KCJohnny? That dude was a fun little Marty, Gun, (and finally) Herm cheerleader.

He was here for a couple of posts after the preseason game.