I spent yesterday screaming about the talent.

[htismaqe]

And it IS the talent.

I, however, no longer believe Herm can build an offense. At least not one that can win.

He did wonders with the defense. But this offense needs rebuilt, and I'm having visions of Marty. The only times Marty has been great, he's had an offense handed to him on silver platter, no building needed.

I think Solari is guilty of listening to Herm, if Saunders was the HC and Solari the OC, I truly believe Solari would have performed differently.

But it's time to rebuild this offense and we're gonna try to rebuild it in the image HERM prefers - what a ****ing nightmare.

I want so bad to just hate this team and not care anymore, but I can't. But I'm fully on the "fire everyone at the top" bandwagon now.

[Hammock Parties]

I'm screaming the same thing.

EDIT: Oh, fire everyone? That's premature. Herm's got plans for the offense. That's obvious by the drafting of Croyle and Webb and keeping Hannon around, not to mention signing Terry.

I don't think he's been given near enough of a fair chance to build an offense. I'm willing to give him that chance.

[Mecca]

Yep we have a talent problem.......and we don't have an SD situation where the GM tells the coach "You take what I give you and like it"......Carl will give Herm what he wants...ugh.

[InChiefsHeaven]

All I know is, after that abysmal performance, my new years resolution is to just not get so damn wound up in the Chiefs. I'll always love em, but I'm not going to get so wrapped up any more. Yesterday sucked. I should have seen a loss coming, but not like that. It ****ed me up for the rest of the day.

Not anymore dammit.

[Mecca]

I'm screaming the same thing.

EDIT: Oh, fire everyone? That's premature. Herm's got plans for the offense. That's obvious by the drafting of Croyle and Webb and keeping Hannon around, not to mention signing Terry.

I don't think he's been given near enough of a fair chance to build an offense. I'm willing to give him that chance.

If Jeff Webb and Chris Hannon are ever anything more than 5th and 6th WR's that do more than play special teams I'll be shocked.

[Hammock Parties]

If Jeff Webb and Chris Hannon are ever anything more than 5th and 6th WR's that do more than play special teams I'll be shocked.

They're both pretty talented guys, they just need a little seasoning. Especially Webb. The Chiefs are going to give these guys a look on offense.

[the Talking Can]

funny, I woke today and felt the same way...listening to the radio and nationally people are literally laughing at us...we are a joke...an embarrassment

and it crystalized for me how yesterday was about coaching....give the same players to Belli**** and see what happens..

[Mecca]

They're both pretty talented guys, they just need a little seasoning. Especially Webb. The Chiefs are going to give these guys a look on offense.

Jeff Webb is just the latest late round WR pick that Chiefs fans hope will work out because we don't have any WR's.

There's a reason he was a late pick.....he runs a 4.4 at the combine and plays like runs a 4.7.

[mlyonsd]

funny, I woke today and felt the same way...listening to the radio and nationally people are literally laughing at us...we are a joke...an embarrassment

and it crystalized for me how yesterday was about coaching....give the same players to Belli**** and see what happens..

Couple of times yesterday Lenny brought up the poor play calling.

I wish he'd grow a pair and directly call Herm out.

[Hammock Parties]

Jeff Webb is just the latest late round WR pick that Chiefs fans hope will work out because we don't have any WR's.

Whatever. Where do you think Hines Ward was drafted?


There's a reason he was a late pick.....he runs a 4.4 at the combine and plays like runs a 4.7.

Now you're just talking out your ass.

[cdcox]

Herm's got plans for the offense.

This is disturbing considering Herm selected Paul Hackett to lead his offense in NY.

[Mecca]

Whatever. Where do you think Hines Ward was drafted?



Now you're just talking out your ass.

......When you are over 6' and run a 4.4 and go in the 6th round after a year where you had 80+ catches there's a reason for it.

Numerous scouts said he didn't play at his combine speed and would struggle to get seperation becaise of that.

[Psyko Tek]

Couple of times yesterday Lenny brought up the poor play calling.

I wish he'd grow a pair and directly call Herm out.


I wish Lenny would take Herm's job

[Mr. Laz]

i still find it hard to believe that our offensive talent went from "leading the league" good ... to complete crap in just 1 year.

:shake:

[KcMizzou]

i still find it hard to believe that our offensive talent went from "leading the league" good ... to complete crap in just 1 year.

:shake:I think everyone expected a step back, but to fall this far this fast is shocking.

[htismaqe]

Herm definitely has plans for the offense.

And IMO, any plan of Herm's that involves offense is a BAD plan.

And personally, I'd like to keep Solari. I'd also like to keep Tim Krumrie.

But when you fire the GM and head coach, which is what is need IMO, everybody ends up going too. It's an unfortunate side effect.

[siberian khatru]

Herm definitely has plans for the offense.

And IMO, any plan of Herm's that involves offense is a BAD plan.

And personally, I'd like to keep Solari. I'd also like to keep Tim Krumrie.

But when you fire the GM and head coach, which is what is need IMO, everybody ends up going too. It's an unfortunate side effect.

I could see Krumrie staying, because he's not a coordinator.

I don't think Solari is irreplaceable. If losing him means we can clean house elsewhere, I'm for it. You hire a better coach and GM, you trust they'll find a good OC (and DL coach, too).

[Mecca]

Hire a new GM.......it'll be great when Carl picks one of his cronies as our new GM.

[TinyEvel]

I hear ya. I was going into this game figuring if we lost, no biggie. But it was embarrassing how bad we looked. And to have the sprots world laughing at your team...not a good feeling.

I hope somehow yesterday's perforance wakes some people up. To go from the #1 offense last year to this? Yikes.

[Skip Towne]

A new broom sweeps clean. Do it. Starting with CP.

[Hammock Parties]

Herm definitely has plans for the offense.

And IMO, any plan of Herm's that involves offense is a BAD plan.

And personally, I'd like to keep Solari. I'd also like to keep Tim Krumrie.

But when you fire the GM and head coach, which is what is need IMO, everybody ends up going too. It's an unfortunate side effect.

HIRE KIRK FERENTZ!

[htismaqe]

i still find it hard to believe that our offensive talent went from "leading the league" good ... to complete crap in just 1 year.

:shake:

Willie Roaf made this offense go. His loss alone accounted for most of our problems this year. Lack of pass protection on the left side only gave Herm MORE of an excuse to do things his way.

And it's not all talent. Some of it is desire. I don't know if it's because the players miss their buddy Vermeil, or if they're sick of Carl's shit, or if they don't like Herm. Actually, I do know - I think the offense got used to be king shit and this year, especially yesterday, the shoe was on the other foot. Whatever the reason, those guys were going through the motions yesterday and it's sickening. Brian Waters needs an IMMEDIATE attitude adjustment, let Trent and his big salary walk, and if you can get picks for Gonzales, see ya.

[KcMizzou]

I hear ya. I was going into this game figuring if we lost, no biggie. But it was embarrassing how bad we looked. And to have the sprots world laughing at your team...not a good feeling.
And for the complete oposite reason they were laughing at it four years ago..

:banghead:

[Coach]

Herm definitely has plans for the offense.

And IMO, any plan of Herm's that involves offense is a BAD plan.

And personally, I'd like to keep Solari. I'd also like to keep Tim Krumrie.

But when you fire the GM and head coach, which is what is need IMO, everybody ends up going too. It's an unfortunate side effect.

Well, which one would you perfer? Give Herm another year with his offense, which you stated that involves Herm, is a bad plan? God knows how bad the offense is this year, considering that it's predictible.

Or firing the GM and the HC, along with some of the assistants, considering that the Chiefs haven't won a playoff game since 1993, and that I'd like to make a comment on the stat that under Carl's leadership, the football team hasn't beaten a playoff-bound team on the road in December since 1991, and rebuild with a new GM and a new coach?

I would also like to throw in the term "Rebuilding" has never occured during Carl's watch, except for 1989 to 1990.

And we wonder why we suck every fuggin year. F**king Carl Deleno Peterson. I'll be one happy sonofabitch when he leaves KC.

[htismaqe]

Whatever. Where do you think Hines Ward was drafted?



Now you're just talking out your ass.

Um, Hines Ward was a 3rd rounder. And he's also what you call a "SURPRISE". You don't PLAN on a guy like Hannon or Webb working out. You take them late because they have potential. If they realize it, bonus. If they don't, you're not out anything.

The PLAN at WR for the Steelers involved taking Troy Edwards and Plaxico Burress, both in the 1st round, in the 2 consecutive years immediately after they drafted Hines Ward.

[mlyonsd]

And we wonder why we suck every fuggin year. F**king Carl Deleno Peterson. I'll be one happy sonofabitch when he leaves KC.

There seems to be only one common denominator left IMO and Carl is it.

[htismaqe]

HIRE KIRK FERENTZ!

No thanks.

I like Kirk. I'd rather he stay at Iowa than take on a curse...

[Mr. Laz]

Willie Roaf made this offense go. His loss alone accounted for most of our problems this year. Lack of pass protection on the left side only gave Herm MORE of an excuse to do things his way.

And it's not all talent. Some of it is desire. I don't know if it's because the players miss their buddy Vermeil, or if they're sick of Carl's shit, or if they don't like Herm. Actually, I do know - I think the offense got used to be king shit and this year, especially yesterday, the shoe was on the other foot. Whatever the reason, those guys were going through the motions yesterday and it's sickening. Brian Waters needs an IMMEDIATE attitude adjustment, let Trent and his big salary walk, and if you can get picks for Gonzales, see ya.


anyone think that maybe Edward "Vermeil'ed" the offense


i mean with the way Vermeil practice etc ... the defense felt neglected etc.


maybe Edwards did the same to the offense .... :shrug:

[FringeNC]

Herm definitely has plans for the offense.

And IMO, any plan of Herm's that involves offense is a BAD plan.

And personally, I'd like to keep Solari. I'd also like to keep Tim Krumrie.

But when you fire the GM and head coach, which is what is need IMO, everybody ends up going too. It's an unfortunate side effect.

Yeah, I'd keep Solari, too.

I think you are much too hard on the talent. These are the same guys that played well against bad defenses when Roaf was gone in '05, and Indy is a bad defense.

I know you don't believe creating uncertainty matters, but that is this offense's problem. When Jerome Bettis is laughing at your play-calling, you know you have problems. Run-run then pass on 3rd and long just doesn't get it done.

I look watching football too much to just not care, but my passion for the Chiefs may go into hibernation (like it did when Gun was HC) until Peterson and Herm and Gun are gone. I used to be a Royals' fanatic. Now, not so much. Peterson's incompetence is having the same effect I think.

To be a passionate fan doesn't requiring consistent winning. It requires hope. And it's hard to have hope with the three stooges running (and ruining) this franchise.

[htismaqe]

Well, which one would you perfer? Give Herm another year with his offense, which you stated that involves Herm, is a bad plan? God knows how bad the offense is this year, considering that it's predictible.

Or firing the GM and the HC, along with some of the assistants, considering that the Chiefs haven't won a playoff game since 1993, and that I'd like to make a comment on the stat that under Carl's leadership, the football team hasn't beaten a playoff-bound team on the road in December since 1991, and rebuild with a new GM and a new coach?

I would also like to throw in the term "Rebuilding" has never occured during Carl's watch, except for 1989 to 1990.

And we wonder why we suck every fuggin year. F**king Carl Deleno Peterson. I'll be one happy sonofabitch when he leaves KC.

I made it pretty clear what I would prefer. Read it again.

[Reerun_KC]

This is disturbing considering Herm selected Paul Hackett to lead his offense in NY.

Dont forget Jimmy Raye and the Red Zone Consultant either.


Herm cannot, has not and never will build a decent offense...


hell his old team is 3 times better than they were when he was there....

[Hammock Parties]

If the offensive players are really that big of a bunch of babies...that's just awful.

[htismaqe]

anyone think that maybe Edward "Vermeil'ed" the offense


i mean with the way Vermeil practice etc ... the defense felt neglected etc.


maybe Edwards did the same to the offense .... :shrug:

I definitely think that's possible.

The question becomes was Herm to hard on them? Or are they just a bunch of ****ing babies.

I'm inclined to think the latter.

[Coach]

I made it pretty clear what I would prefer. Read it again.

But I'm fully on the "fire everyone at the top" bandwagon now.

Gotcha. I must had missed that, despite that it was on the topic starter.

It'd be nice to have a GM that knows how to put a decent football team together, along with a decent coaching staff together.

At least, on the bright side, we're not the Raiders/Lions.

[htismaqe]

Dont forget Jimmy Raye and the Red Zone Consultant either.

Herm cannot, has not and never will build a decent offense...

hell his old team is 3 times better than they were when he was there....

They're got pretty good defensive talent there that Herm picked up. That being said, Mangini COACHED THEM UP, something Herm couldn't do.

Herm should go back to scouting, it seems he actually might be good at that...

[Mecca]

Gotcha. I must had missed that, despite that it was on the topic starter.

It'd be nice to have a GM that knows how to put a decent football team together, along with a decent coaching staff together.

At least, on the bright side, we're not the Raiders/Lions.

The Raiders did play in a Superbowl not that long ago.......The Lions are one of the teams like us that hasn't won a playoff game in 20 years.

[Hammock Parties]

They're got pretty good defensive talent there that Herm picked up. That being said, Mangini COACHED THEM UP, something Herm couldn't do.


I don't believe that for a second. Our defense was better than New York's this year.

[Coach]

The Raiders did play in a Superbowl not that long ago.......The Lions are one of the teams like us that hasn't won a playoff game in 20 years.

Yeah, but I think that the Raiders lucked in the Superbowl (Even a blind squirrel finds a nut), and it showed when they were dominated by the Bucs.

The Lions are in the same boat in terms of hasn't won a playoff game in 20 years, but their regular season records has been horrendous, far more worse than the Chiefs.

[htismaqe]

Yeah, I'd keep Solari, too.

I think you are much too hard on the talent. These are the same guys that played well against bad defenses when Roaf was gone in '05, and Indy is a bad defense.

I know you don't believe creating uncertainty matters, but that is this offense's problem. When Jerome Bettis is laughing at your play-calling, you know you have problems. Run-run then pass on 3rd and long just doesn't get it done.

I look watching football too much to just not care, but my passion for the Chiefs may go into hibernation (like it did when Gun was HC) until Peterson and Herm and Gun are gone. I used to be a Royals' fanatic. Now, not so much. Peterson's incompetence is having the same effect I think.

To be a passionate fan doesn't requiring consistent winning. It requires hope. And it's hard to have hope with the three stooges running (and ruining) this franchise.

It's not the unpredictability doesn't matter AT ALL, it's that execution is still the PRIMARY key to a successful unit, offense or defense.

There were MANY times that Saunders' offense was predictable - I called his plays several times. The difference is that, even when we were predictable, we were able to DICTATE to the defense through superior execution.

[Reerun_KC]

They're got pretty good defensive talent there that Herm picked up. That being said, Mangini COACHED THEM UP, something Herm couldn't do.

Herm should go back to scouting, it seems he actually might be good at that...

Regardless, the future isnt very bright here in KC for the next couple of years...

Not really much to say, but Herm made KC balanced and in to the team he wanted....

[FAX]

anyone think that maybe Edward "Vermeil'ed" the offense


i mean with the way Vermeil practice etc ... the defense felt neglected etc.


maybe Edwards did the same to the offense .... :shrug:

There may well be something to this, Mr. Laz. I've noted that, in several of Trent's pressers, he's mentioned that the offense has had to adapt to a different preparation methodology. He has stated that one of the ways he's had to "adjust" has to do with timing and routes during the game. This could indicate a lack of emphasis during practice.

Others here with more knowledge of the practice structure would know more about this than I, but it could well be a factor.

FAX

[Mecca]

I don't believe that for a second. Our defense was better than New York's this year.

NE is a superior team to them and they're playing with them........we get spanked by superior teams.

[Reerun_KC]

It's not the unpredictability doesn't matter AT ALL, it's that execution is still the PRIMARY key to a successful unit, offense or defense.

There were MANY times that Saunders' offense was predictable - I called his plays several times. The difference is that, even when we were predictable, we were able to DICTATE tohe defense through superior execution.


True, but the offense had faith in the OC and HC....

They seem in disblief at what the calls really are. When all 11 guys dont believe in what the HC and OC are calling and planning. Your excution is going to suck....

KC offensive players do not believe in Herm or his Butt Sex Offensive phylosopy...

[FringeNC]

Yeah, but I think that the Raiders lucked in the Superbowl, and it showed when they were dominated by the Bucs.

The Lions are in the same boat in terms of hasn't won a playoff game in 20 years, but their regular season records has been horrendous, far more worse than the Chiefs.

The Raiders had a nice run with Gruden and Gannon. They were just a perfect fit, and what's his name -- Callahan--was able to keep it together for one more year.

Speaking of getting dominated, I am not sure I can remember a playoff game where a team gets more thoroughly dominated than what I saw yesterday. There are bigger blowouts, but not bigger domination TOP-wise.

[Hammock Parties]

There were MANY times that Saunders' offense was predictable - I called his plays several times. The difference is that, even when we were predictable, we were able to DICTATE to the defense through superior execution.

:clap:

[Coach]

NE is a superior team to them and they're playing with them........we get spanked by superior teams.

And we also lose to inferior teams (Cleveland, Miami)

[Simplex3]

At least, on the bright side, we're not the Raiders/Lions.
What makes us better? I don't think we're worse, I think we ARE them with a couple more regular season wins being offset by increasing prices.

[Mecca]

What makes us better? I don't think we're worse, I think we ARE them with a couple more regular season wins being offset by increasing prices.

We're them without the top 10 draft picks.

[Simplex3]

At least, on the bright side, we're not the Raiders/Lions.
Here's two interesting bets:

Which happens first in each scenario?

1. CP is fired -or- Al Davis dies

2. CP is fired -or- Matt Millen is fired

I'm going with Al Davis and Matt Millen.

[Hammock Parties]

We've won 39 games in the last 4 years.

The Lions have won 19.

If you don't think there's a gigantic difference you're nuts. There is hope with this team every year, no matter how small. There is NONE in Detroit. NONE.

[Simplex3]

I don't believe that for a second. Our defense was better than New York's this year.
ROFL

[htismaqe]

True, but the offense had faith in the OC and HC....

They seem in disblief at what the calls really are. When all 11 guys dont believe in what the HC and OC are calling and planning. Your excution is going to suck....

KC offensive players do not believe in Herm or his Butt Sex Offensive phylosopy...

I know you want to blame that on Herm but I can't.

These guys are PROFESSIONALS. They looked like they weren't even trying yesterday, and there's NO EXCUSE for that, even if the head coach is an idiot.

[Coach]

Here's two interesting bets:

Which happens first in each scenario?

1. CP is fired -or- Al Davis dies

2. CP is fired -or- Matt Millen is fired

I'm going with Al Davis and Matt Millen.

Unfortunately, I agree.

[dirk digler]

And it IS the talent.

I, however, no longer believe Herm can build an offense. At least not one that can win.

He did wonders with the defense. But this offense needs rebuilt, and I'm having visions of Marty. The only times Marty has been great, he's had an offense handed to him on silver platter, no building needed.

I think Solari is guilty of listening to Herm, if Saunders was the HC and Solari the OC, I truly believe Solari would have performed differently.

But it's time to rebuild this offense and we're gonna try to rebuild it in the image HERM prefers - what a ****ing nightmare.

I want so bad to just hate this team and not care anymore, but I can't. But I'm fully on the "fire everyone at the top" bandwagon now.

I am with you 100% Parker.

So do you miss Jesus now?

[Skip Towne]

They're got pretty good defensive talent there that Herm picked up. That being said, Mangini COACHED THEM UP, something Herm couldn't do.

Herm should go back to scouting, it seems he actually might be good at that...
See "The Peter Principle".

[htismaqe]

We've won 39 games in the last 4 years.

The Lions have won 19.

If you don't think there's a gigantic difference you're nuts. There is hope with this team every year, no matter how small. There is NONE in Detroit. NONE.

Uh oh, here comes the "winningest team of the 90's" argument.

In the immortal words of Al Roker Jr.:

So what!?!?

[Mecca]

We've won 39 games in the last 4 years.

The Lions have won 19.

If you don't think there's a gigantic difference you're nuts. There is hope with this team every year, no matter how small. There is NONE in Detroit. NONE.

The Chiefs have every bit the amount of holes the Lions do......sure we parlay it into a better record and a embarassment in the playoffs but in the grand scheme of things what's that get you? Neither of us have playoff wins.

[htismaqe]

I am with you 100% Parker.

So do you miss Jesus now?

Nope.

I wish we'd bite the bullet and get some fresh minds in here instead of recycling past coaches and Carl's buddies.

[FringeNC]

It's not the unpredictability doesn't matter AT ALL, it's that execution is still the PRIMARY key to a successful unit, offense or defense.

There were MANY times that Saunders' offense was predictable - I called his plays several times. The difference is that, even when we were predictable, we were able to DICTATE to the defense through superior execution.

We'll just have to disagree. For the most part, when we played badly under Saunders it was for the exact same reason. He got too enamored with the running game. That was mainly 02-03, though.

I contrast what happened yesterday with what happened against Denver at home last year. We tried running, and LJ was just getting stuffed because Denver was putting 8-9 up. We fall behind. What do we do? Throw the ball 30 times in the first half, which opened things up for LJ in the 2nd half.

Herm is a coaching dinosaur, and in way over his head. Not only won't he deviate from his blueprint, but his blueprint is fundamentally flawed and cannot work. Herm is just not smart enough to be an NFL head coach.

[Simplex3]

We've won 39 games in the last 4 years.

The Lions have won 19.

If you don't think there's a gigantic difference you're nuts. There is hope with this team every year, no matter how small. There is NONE in Detroit. NONE.
Like many others I'm bored stiff with having decent regular seasons and getting punked in the playoffs.

[Hammock Parties]

The Chiefs have every bit the amount of holes the Lions do......sure we parlay it into a better record

Wait a second...are you saying the Chiefs and Lions have equal talent?

In that case, you should be riding Herm's jock like a cowboy. He must be AWESOME!!!

All we need is some more talent and Herm will take us to the promised land! MECCA HAS SPOKEN!

[Frankie]

I think Solari is guilty of listening to Herm, if Saunders was the HC and Solari the OC, I truly believe Solari would have performed differently.

No truer words were ever spoken on this forum. All the Solari bashers should know he's playing the 'O' that Herm wants. Saunders would have probably opened the game with a play action pass after all the weeklong talk about us running LJ down their throat.

[htismaqe]

We'll just have to disagree. For the most part, when we played badly under Saunders it was for the exact same reason. He got too enamored with the running game. That was mainly 02-03, though.

I contrast what happened yesterday with what happened against Denver at home last year. We tried running, and LJ was just getting stuffed because Denver was putting 8-9 up. We fall behind. What do we do? Throw the ball 30 times in the first half, which opened things up for LJ in the 2nd half.

Herm is a coaching dinosaur, and in way over his head. Not only won't he deviate from his blueprint, but his blueprint is fundamentally flawed and cannot work. Herm is just not smart enough to be an NFL head coach.

WHAT?!?!

The times we struggled most with Saunders were the times when he REFUSED to run the ball AT ALL.

[Reerun_KC]

I know you want to blame that on Herm but I can't.

These guys are PROFESSIONALS. They looked like they weren't even trying yesterday, and there's NO EXCUSE for that, even if the head coach is an idiot.


I dont know who to blame? Herm? The players?


But as you said earlier, execution is the key.

So tell me this, If you are running up the centers ass for 4 of the first 6 plays, for little or not gain. you tend to get demoralized.


I think that Herm is so stubborn, he works agianst himself... He demoralizes his own offense with the lack of knowledge and focus to the game plan and detail, His players just feel there is no hope execution or not.

We dont play the odds, we always play straight up regardless if the odds are stacked agianst us or not...

[dirk digler]

Nope.

I wish we'd bite the bullet and get some fresh minds in here instead of recycling past coaches and Carl's buddies.

I am with you but we should have kept Saunders and I think this shit wouldn't have happened yesterday.

The problem is Herm lied to all of us. He said he wouldn't screw with the O but then he tells the announcers his plan all along was to stop throwing the ball and go conservative.

[htismaqe]

I dont know who to blame? Herm? The players?


But as you said earlier, execution is the key.

So tell me this, If you are running up the centers ass for 4 of the first 6 plays, for little or not gain. you tend to get demoralized.


I think that Herm is so stubborn, he works agianst himself... He demoralizes his own offense with the lack of knowledge and focus to the game plan and detail, His players just feel there is no hope execution or not.

We dont play the odds, we always play straight up regardless if the odds are stacked agianst us or not...

I'll tell you who to blame.

ALL OF THEM.

From Carl on down.

[Mecca]

Wait a second...are you saying the Chiefs and Lions have equal talent?

In that case, you should be riding Herm's jock like a cowboy. He must be AWESOME!!!

All we need is some more talent and Herm will take us to the promised land! MECCA HAS SPOKEN!

The Lions are awfully coached........I don't think the Chiefs are that talented, the Chiefs are an old aging team with a ton of holes. Just because Herm is a better coach than someone like Rod Marinelli doesn't exactly give me faith, considering it was his 1st year and Herms been a HC for what 5-6 years?

[Reerun_KC]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by FringeNC
We'll just have to disagree. For the most part, when we played badly under Saunders it was for the exact same reason. He got too enamored with the running game. That was mainly 02-03, though.

I contrast what happened yesterday with what happened against Denver at home last year. We tried running, and LJ was just getting stuffed because Denver was putting 8-9 up. We fall behind. What do we do? Throw the ball 30 times in the first half, which opened things up for LJ in the 2nd half.

Herm is a coaching dinosaur, and in way over his head. Not only won't he deviate from his blueprint, but his blueprint is fundamentally flawed and cannot work. Herm is just not smart enough to be an NFL head coach.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Qoute by Htismaqe
WHAT?!?!

The times we struggled most with Saunders were the times when he REFUSED to run the ball AT ALL.


Agreeded when we didnt run the ball we struggled, but we would attack the weakness of the Defense 9 times out of 10 with relentless pursuit...

now regardless of what we do, We run run pass punt....

[Simplex3]

I'll tell you who to blame.

ALL OF THEM.

From Clark Hunt on down.
Fixed your post.

[htismaqe]

I am with you but we should have kept Saunders and I think this shit wouldn't have happened yesterday.

The problem is Herm lied to all of us. He said he wouldn't screw with the O but then he tells the announcers his plan all along was to stop throwing the ball and go conservative.

Solari learned this offense from Saunders.

Keeping Saunders wouldn't have changed a thing.

I've opened my eyes, yesterday's offense was 100% Herm.

[FringeNC]

WHAT?!?!

The times we struggled most with Saunders were the times when he REFUSED to run the ball AT ALL.

We ran the ball a higher percentage of time under Saunders than almost every team in the NFL.

[dirk digler]

Solari learned this offense from Saunders.

Keeping Saunders wouldn't have changed a thing.

I've opened my eyes, yesterday's offense was 100% Herm.

I agree about this offense being Herm and I think that is why he let go Saunders because Al probably told him I am not going to run your stupid ass offense and I am going to do what I want.

Solari is Herm's lackey.

[Reerun_KC]

I'll tell you who to blame.

ALL OF THEM.

From Carl on down.

Wether you like the players or not, BUT our star talent is now questioning and grumbling about the gameplan, calls and flow of the offense.. To me it sounds like an organization that is about to implode on itself...


Reminds me of Martys last season...

[siberian khatru]

We ran the ball a higher percentage of time under Saunders than almost every team in the NFL.

Overall, yes. But break it down by games, and by situations.

I think we got pass-happy in certain games, and in certain situations.

I remember a game in San Diego, must've been around 02, we were never more than 7 points out of the lead and we threw the ball, like, 50 times.

[ChiefsLV]

The problem is Herm lied to all of us. He said he wouldn't screw with the O but then he tells the announcers his plan all along was to stop throwing the ball and go conservative.


But according to Herm, this is the kind of offense you need to run to win games on the road, especially in the playoffs... :shake:

[blueballs]

Grbac had a hell of a year in Gun's last year
DV and Green came in and stunk it up
but Herm took a Caddy to the chop shop
and comes out with a go cart

[Hammock Parties]

I agree about this offense being Herm and I think that is why he let go Saunders because Al probably told him I am not going to run your stupid ass offense and I am going to do what I want.

Solari is Herm's lackey.

Saunders was gone before Herm was ever hired.

[Reerun_KC]

But according to Herm, this is the kind of offense you need to run to win games on the road, especially in the playoffs... :shake:

Thats right, I remember him saying that now.... You know what? Our offensive running game was 10 times more explosive last year than this year...

Regardless of Roaf or not...

Last year we didnt run up the centers ass repeatling.... It is called creativity, which we lack...

[dirk digler]

Saunders was gone before Herm was ever hired.

No he wasn't Herm interviewed him and then said they are going to go their separate ways.

[htismaqe]

Wether you like the players or not, BUT our star talent is now questioning and grumbling about the gameplan, calls and flow of the offense.. To me it sounds like an organization that is about to implode on itself...


Reminds me of Martys last season...

The star talent's JOB is to execute. Moping around because they don't like the gameplan is not negotiable.

Fire them all.

[htismaqe]

I agree about this offense being Herm and I think that is why he let go Saunders because Al probably told him I am not going to run your stupid ass offense and I am going to do what I want.

Solari is Herm's lackey.

Solari probably wanted the promotion so bad he'd do anything.

If so, he's guilty of the same Gunther is - swallowing his dignity to work for the Chiefs.

[htismaqe]

We ran the ball a higher percentage of time under Saunders than almost every team in the NFL.

And against Philly and Buffalo, to name a few, we ran for big yards in the 1st half and then never ran again. And we lost.

[Hammock Parties]

No he wasn't Herm interviewed him and then said they are going to go their separate ways.

Bull butter.

Carl interviewed head coaching candidates. He gave Saunders a cursory, lip-service interview and then Saunders went out and looked elsewhere for a HC job. No one hired him so he went to Washington. He was NEVER come back here as the OC.

[ROYC75]

Time to start drafting better or we will be faced with the same shit every year...........

[Frankie]

But according to Herm, this is the kind of offense you need to run to win games on the road, especially in the playoffs... :shake:
Did Marty a lot of good!! :shake:

[Reerun_KC]

The star talent's JOB is to execute. Moping around because they don't like the gameplan is not negotiable.

Fire them all.

Then tell the center to move his ass!! LOL!!!

[siberian khatru]

And against Philly and Buffalo, to name a few, we ran for big yards in the 1st half and then never ran again. And we lost.

And against Philly, he called that quick out AGAIN when we had a big lead late in the 1st half -- the CB read it, picked it off for 6 and we folded.

[teedubya]

This is a recipe for complete Chiefs apathy. Seriously, the stands will be barren soon, if this mediocrity continues.

[dirk digler]

Bull butter.

Carl interviewed head coaching candidates. He gave Saunders a cursory, lip-service interview and then Saunders went out and looked elsewhere for a HC job. No one hired him so he went to Washington. He was NEVER come back here as the OC.

Herm interviewed him are you denying that?

I am not saying Herm wanted him or Al wanted to stay here but I think Al said he wasn't going to change the way he calls the game so Herm said no thanks.

[dirk digler]

Solari probably wanted the promotion so bad he'd do anything.

If so, he's guilty of the same Gunther is - swallowing his dignity to work for the Chiefs.

Yep

[Reerun_KC]

Did Marty a lot of good!! :shake:
I am sorry, but Martyball and Hermieball are not going to get you to far in the NFL. Times have changed.. You have to be able to adjust, be creative and attack different aspects of a Defense.

This butt sex football shit isnt going to cut it, No how no way. HELL even Cowher made changes and used a WR pass in the superbowl. Would Herm ever do that? Seriously doubt it...

Marty might now, why the change? The GM of the Chargers AJ Smith has his foot on Martys nuts forcing the change. If Marty doesnt get to the superbowl dont be surprised if AJ Smith cans his pathetic ass....

[Simplex3]

This is a recipe for complete Chiefs apathy. Seriously, the stands will be barren soon, if this mediocrity continues.
I wish.

[FAX]

“Ours has been a very prolific offense and we don’t want to disrupt it, ... With the core of our offense returning I’m sure we won’t miss a beat as we head into next season."

Excuse me while I choke on my tongue.

FAX

[Hammock Parties]

Herm interviewed him are you denying that?

I am not saying Herm wanted him or Al wanted to stay here but I think Al said he wasn't going to change the way he calls the game so Herm said no thanks.

Al was never coming back, and I don't remember an interview. I remember Herm interviewing Gunther and some of the other assistants but not Saunders.

[Simplex3]

Marty might now, why the change? The GM of the Chargers AJ Smith has his foot on Martys nuts forcing the change. If Marty doesnt get to the superbowl dont be surprised if AJ Smith cans his pathetic ass....
By all accounts Marty made the decision to hand the O reigns over to his coordinator by himself. Marty is and has been one of the best at getting everything out of every guy on the team, and this year is no different. If Marty wins a playoff game the Chargers should bring him back again. I really think Baltimore is the only thing standing between him and a Lombardi, though.

[Mecca]

This is a recipe for complete Chiefs apathy. Seriously, the stands will be barren soon, if this mediocrity continues.

As long as 'we're close" the stadium will stay full.......it has this long.

[Hammock Parties]

As long as 'we're close" the stadium will stay full.......it has this long.

And what's wrong with that?

You can't have the sweet without the sour. Our sour really isn't that sour, either.

[FringeNC]

And against Philly and Buffalo, to name a few, we ran for big yards in the 1st half and then never ran again. And we lost.

Buffalo was not a well-called game. Trent simply could not throw in the hurricane-like wind, and Saunders didn't adjust for that.

It's hard for me to remember too much about Philly because I was consumed with contempt for Gun and the D.

I come back to the hope thing. Under Vermeil, there was always hope -- hope that either we'd draft some good guys on D, or hire a good DC. Now, under Herm, it's just f'n depressing. It's just impossible for me to delude myself into believing Herm can lead us to the promised land...

[dirk digler]

Excuse me while I choke on my tongue.

FAX

heh

Q: What are thoughts on the success of the offense the last five years?

EDWARDS: “I remember the last time I was here pretty good. The last time I checked I walked out there they beat us up Opening Day. Obviously, this offense has been prolific in the last three or four seasons. They can score points. I am not dumb. You don’t change things just to change. You don’t have to change. I think sometimes people would expect when a new coach comes in well he’s going to change this, he is going to change that. No, I am going to evaluate everything. Keep scoring 30 points I like that. That is a good thing. I haven’t been involved in that too much in my career.”

Q: What is your offensive philosophy?

EDWARDS: “I think that is a good question because I think a lot of people ask what your philosophy is. You know what my philosophy is, what can the players do well? That is what coaching is about, it’s about the players. It’s not about your philosophy. I mean you play with the players you have. Your ability as a coach is to make the players play up to their talent level that is what your in charge to do and your accountable for that as a coach. You can’t ask a player to do something you know he can’t do. You’re a dumb coach to do that, that is not very smart. So obviously my philosophy is this, hey win. How do you win? That is the philosophy of every coach. You win by scoring points and you win by not letting them score points the last time I checked so that will be the same philosophy here.”

[Mecca]

And what's wrong with that?

You can't have the sweet without the sour. Our sour really isn't that sour, either.

I was just informing him that if he thinks the stadium is going to stop selling out he hasn't been paying attention.

I don't have any issue with people going to games or anything like that, well unless they scream bloody murder about Carl or ticket prices, if those things really piss you off THAT much you probably shouldn't be paying for season tickets.

[FringeNC]

Al was never coming back, and I don't remember an interview. I remember Herm interviewing Gunther and some of the other assistants but not Saunders.

Herm and Carl didn't want Al around, and it's obvious why. He wouldn't have been Herm's foot-shuffling porter like Solari is.

[Hammock Parties]

It's just impossible for me to delude myself into believing Herm can lead us to the promised land...

He led us to the playoffs this year....we get some OL and this rocket ship will get goin.' You'll see. CHIEFS 2007!

[Frankie]

I am sorry, but Martyball and Hermieball are not going to get you to far in the NFL. Times have changed.. You have to be able to adjust, be creative and attack different aspects of a Defense.
I was being sarcastic.

[Mecca]

He led us to the playoffs this year....we get some OL and this rocket ship will get goin.' You'll see. CHIEFS 2007!

Some WR's also.......

[dirk digler]

Al was never coming back, and I don't remember an interview. I remember Herm interviewing Gunther and some of the other assistants but not Saunders.

The remnants of Dick Vermeil's coaching staff have not yet scattered to the winds. Even with Herman Edwards now coaching the Chiefs, Vermeil's assistants are under contract through the end of the month.

Some of them might get extensions. Edwards said Monday that he would interview all of Vermeil's assistants and could retain one or more on his staff.

"It's a good staff," Edwards said. "They've won a lot of football games."

The Chiefs may have to move on without the architect of their offense, coordinator Al Saunders. Hoping to become a head coach, Saunders will interview this week for the vacancy in Detroit and was scheduled for a second meeting in Houston. He also met with the Texans last week.

Saunders may eventually interview with the Raiders.

Edwards' most difficult hire might be finding a coordinator to replace Saunders, if that becomes necessary.
.

[Easy 6]

I dont believe its 100% talent or 100% playcalling. We still have the talent to compete, the O started to find a groove when Solari opened it up a bit with the screen & shovel plays to Dante & getting Bigfoot involved. Had we opened up sooner, this could be a different BB today.

The playcalling cant help the 5 or 6 drops or a stepped on foot, but it should have been adjusted FAR sooner. Up the gut & off tackle all day DOESNT WORK. Stretch plays, screens, play-action, these were all missing.

He kept dropping Trent back on long distance situations.

Trent has NEVER been a drop back & rocket launch the ball guy, he is a PLAY-ACTION QB. Yet they just kept putting him in STUPID spots.

The BLAME can be spread EVERYWHERE on the O, from coaches to players.

[Hammock Parties]

Some WR's also.......

We already have two TO clones on the roster!!!! :p

[CoMoChief]

We need tackles, we need DT's, we need WR's that can get open. We need a QB who's not scared.


We need Willie Roaf.

[siberian khatru]

And what's wrong with that?

You can't have the sweet without the sour. Our sour really isn't that sour, either.

No, it's almost tasteless. Like tofu.

In the early 90s, there was genuine excitement. Even with the disappointments, everyone felt like we were building up to something. That crested in 97.

Some folks maybe felt that way in 03, but I think after the 9-0 start most saw dark linings in those silver clouds.

Now, we're all so familiar with Carl, and with the current situation of the team, I find it hard to be optimistic that we're on the rise, or even that we could capitalize on a down season or two. I just see us muddling along on the 7-9/9-7 axis.

[Mecca]

We already have two TO clones on the roster!!!! :p

As bad as our WR's are.........I'll take TO and his mouth at this point.

[dirk digler]

Herm and Carl didn't want Al around, and it's obvious why. He wouldn't have been Herm's foot-shuffling porter like Solari is.

Yep

[Hammock Parties]

That still doesn't say Saunders interviewed. I still don't remember it happening. Saunders never even considered OCing here.

[FringeNC]

He led us to the playoffs this year....we get some OL and this rocket ship will get goin.' You'll see. CHIEFS 2007!

You really think the tandem of Peterson and Edwards is the best GM/HC tandem in our division? If not, how exactly are we going to win?

[Simplex3]

Some WR's also.......
Don't forget DTs.

[Hammock Parties]

You really think the tandem of Peterson and Edwards is the best GM/HC tandem in our division? If not, how exactly are we going to win?

We went 4-2 in the division. San Diego was 5-1.

I'm incredibly optimistic. All we need is an offensive line.

[RedThat]

As bad as our WR's are.........I'll take TO and his mouth at this point.

LOL....thats funny

Now that's what I call desperation

[Simplex3]

Don't forget DTs.
And a MLB. We can't forget that.

Oh, and a ROLB.

And this lamp. That's all I need. OL, WRs, DTs, LBs, and this lamp. That's all I need.

[/Steve Martin]

[Simplex3]

We went 4-2 in the division. San Diego was 5-1.

I'm incredibly optimistic. All we need is an offensive line.
2 vs the Raider and two at home = 4 division wins. Yeah, it's on next year baby!

['Hamas' Jenkins]

We went 4-2 in the division. San Diego was 5-1.

I'm incredibly optimistic. All we need is an offensive line.

Did your job with Whorepaint make you the Joseph Goebbels of the Chiefs?

You're a f*cking idiot. Jesus.

[Simplex3]

Did your job with Whorepaint make you the Joseph Goebbels of the Chiefs?

You're a f*cking idiot. Jesus.
No.



.

[FringeNC]

We went 4-2 in the division. San Diego was 5-1.

I'm incredibly optimistic. All we need is an offensive line.

I'll take Smith/Marty and Shanahan/Shanahan over Carl/Herm any day. I don't see how one can make the argument that we don't have the next-to-last tandem. This is a GM and coaches league. And to think Peterson/Herm can build a Superbowl team -- how can anyone do that with a straight face?

Really, in my opinon, we have to hope that Clark Hunt is both smart and hungry. If so, next season may be the last for these two. And I think there is an outside chance that Peterson is gone in a few weeks. He had his chance. Way too many chances. And rich guys don't like to get embarrassed on national TV like our crew did to Clark yesterday. You say "well the Chiefs sellout every game". So what. Virtually every NFL team does, so that can no longer be used as a metric for success.

[ChiefsCountry]

2 vs the Raider and two at home = 4 division wins. Yeah, it's on next year baby!

We almost had a sweep of Dungver too.

[Hammock Parties]

I marvel everyday at your incredible awesomeness. You shine with radiant glory.

Well, gee, Hummus, that's awful nice of you. You're a cool guy. Thanks!

[Easy 6]

I just cant see how all of this is chalked up to talent...

Beat dinveer, who has a better D than indy.

Beat seattle, who has a better D than indy.

Beat jax, who has a better D than indy.

Beat eggo, who has a better D than indy by a factor of 10.

The drops & squashed feet aside, the play calls were shameful.

[Hammock Parties]

I just cant see how all of this is chalked up to talent...

Beat dinveer, who has a better D than indy.

Beat seattle, who has a better D than indy.

Beat jax, who has a better D than indy.

Beat eggo, who has a better D than indy by a factor of 10.


What did all of those games have in common?

THEY WERE PLAYED IN KANSAS CITY.

[FAX]

I just cant see how all of this is chalked up to talent...

Beat dinveer, who has a better D than indy.

Beat seattle, who has a better D than indy.

Beat jax, who has a better D than indy.

Beat eggo, who has a better D than indy by a factor of 10.

The drops & squashed feet aside, the play calls were shameful.

This post hails from Truetown.

I can envision our guys rolling their eyes in the huddle everytime the special Run-Larry-Up-Someone's-Butt-Blast play was called.

FAX

[Frankie]

Jeff Webb is just the latest late round WR pick that Chiefs fans hope will work out because we don't have any WR's.

There's a reason he was a late pick.....he runs a 4.4 at the combine and plays like runs a 4.7.
And you make that astute observation based on the many opportunities that Webb has gotten. Right?

[Easy 6]

What did all of those games have in common?

THEY WERE PLAYED IN KANSAS CITY.

Good point, but to hear some talk EVERYBODY on O is washed up.

We have plenty of talent to atleast compete, what we DONT have, is the talent to play Up the Gut football every down. Solari/Herm are trying to make these guys play a style of ball that they werent built for.

At times in the 2nd half, we moved the ball because they finally started to mix it up & that tells me it could have been a different outcome had it happened sooner.

[Mecca]

And you make that astute observation based on the many opportunities that Webb has gotten. Right?

College playing days......preseason. Jeff Webb does not or has he ever looked like a 4.4 guy.

[Easy 6]

I can envision our guys rolling their eyes in the huddle everytime the special Run-Larry-Up-Someone's-Butt-Blast play was called.

FAX

Thats why i wish Trent would have just said "F#ck it, this call SUX, heres what were gonna do".

To hell with the controversy it would have created, a flat out revolt on the field could have DRASTICALLY changed the outcome.

[Iowanian]

What were the final numbers on the Time of Possession this season vs Last.

At the halfway mark, the Chiefs were a couple of minutes LESS in TOP than last year.

Herm needs to answer that question.

[Hammock Parties]

What were the final numbers on the Time of Possession this season vs Last.

At the halfway mark, the Chiefs were a couple of minutes LESS in TOP than last year.

Herm needs to answer that question.

2005: 32:09

2006: 30:06

[Iowanian]

Someone pack that in Herm's Pipe so he can smoke it.

I'd like to see that brought up in an article or two....and questioned on the radio, and asked to Herm in a PC.

He ultimately is responsible for killing this offense.

[Halfcan]

Solari and Herm are the laughing stock of the NFL right now.

[htismaqe]

By all accounts Marty made the decision to hand the O reigns over to his coordinator by himself. Marty is and has been one of the best at getting everything out of every guy on the team, and this year is no different. If Marty wins a playoff game the Chargers should bring him back again. I really think Baltimore is the only thing standing between him and a Lombardi, though.

Cam Cameron was hired by A.J. Smith, I'm almost certain of it.

[htismaqe]

I'll take Smith/Marty and Shanahan/Shanahan over Carl/Herm any day. I don't see how one can make the argument that we don't have the next-to-last tandem. This is a GM and coaches league. And to think Peterson/Herm can build a Superbowl team -- how can anyone do that with a straight face?

Really, in my opinon, we have to hope that Clark Hunt is both smart and hungry. If so, next season may be the last for these two. And I think there is an outside chance that Peterson is gone in a few weeks. He had his chance. Way too many chances. And rich guys don't like to get embarrassed on national TV like our crew did to Clark yesterday. You say "well the Chiefs sellout every game". So what. Virtually every NFL team does, so that can no longer be used as a metric for success.

This is NOT a coaches league. This a players league. Good athletes trump bad coaching.

Indirectly then, it's the GM who makes or breaks a franchise, because a good GM gets good players and a bad GM is, well...Carl.

[htismaqe]

Good point, but to hear some talk EVERYBODY on O is washed up.

We have plenty of talent to atleast compete, what we DONT have, is the talent to play Up the Gut football every down. Solari/Herm are trying to make these guys play a style of ball that they werent built for.

At times in the 2nd half, we moved the ball because they finally started to mix it up & that tells me it could have been a different outcome had it happened sooner.

Washed up? No.

WORTHLESS? Yes. There's absolutely no excuse for the lack of energy they played with yesterday. They acted like they didn't want to be there and we got WASTED.

And news flash -- up the gut football is THE SIMPLEST type of football to play, especially for offensive linemen. It just doesn't work when your coaches and players don't TRY.

[Frankie]

College playing days......preseason. Jeff Webb does not or has he ever looked like a 4.4 guy.
Neither did Otis Taylor. I admit this is very optimistic. But I saw a lot of similiraty between Webb and Taylor in what little chance I had to watch Webb.

[RedThat]

Herm knows about defense. The question is, will Peterson get someone to help out Herm and the offense?

I dont think so. Its just vice versa all over again. He tried to help out Vermeil with the defense, and it didnt work. Its clear the problem with this team is not Herm. Its Peterson. He cant build a team.

This is just a continuing ongoing trend. Its funny how i notice most of the coaches weve had here specialize in either defense or offense. And most of the time were dominant on one side of the ball, terrible on the other. Thats how its always been with the Chiefs. I anticipate it will happen again. It just goes to show our incompetent GM cant help our coaches when they lack knowledge on 1 side ball. Either on the offense or defense side of the ball. Is this a coincedence? It's not. Its trend. It's Carl Peterson.

*Peterson needs to go. Not Herm.

[RedThat]

Washed up? No.

WORTHLESS? Yes. There's absolutely no excuse for the lack of energy they played with yesterday. They acted like they didn't want to be there and we got WASTED.

And news flash -- up the gut football is THE SIMPLEST type of football to play, especially for offensive linemen. It just doesn't work when your coaches and players don't TRY.

I would say, for the most part, our the offensive players looked nervous, and surprised to be playing in the playoffs. Not a good combination if you ask me.

[Frankie]

I would say, for the most part, our the offensive players looked nervous, and surprised to be playing in the playoffs. Not a good combination if you ask me.
Yup. Even Fariba observed that and she's a relative newcomer to watching football.

[FringeNC]

This is NOT a coaches league. This a players league. Good athletes trump bad coaching.

Indirectly then, it's the GM who makes or breaks a franchise, because a good GM gets good players and a bad GM is, well...Carl.

I agree with this Irsay quote:

“People have always talked about how a manager in baseball makes such a difference. And there was a time when the NBA was known as a so-called 'coach's league.' But I think what's going on in the NFL, with the salaries being paid and the focus on the coaches, there is no doubt about the direction we have gone. You have to believe that (owners) now feel the coach makes the difference. ”

[htismaqe]

I agree with this Irsay quote:

“People have always talked about how a manager in baseball makes such a difference. And there was a time when the NBA was known as a so-called 'coach's league.' But I think what's going on in the NFL, with the salaries being paid and the focus on the coaches, there is no doubt about the direction we have gone. You have to believe that (owners) now feel the coach makes the difference. ”

Paying coaches alot of money only means the NFL THINKS they're important.

Sharpe said it before the game, Jim Mora agreed with him. Once the game starts, the players are the core. The players win, the players lose.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Washed up? No.

WORTHLESS? Yes. There's absolutely no excuse for the lack of energy they played with yesterday. They acted like they didn't want to be there and we got WASTED.

And news flash -- up the gut football is THE SIMPLEST type of football to play, especially for offensive linemen. It just doesn't work when your coaches and players don't TRY.

Amen to that.

I haven't watched my TIVO of the game yet, so I pose a question to you:

My first thought was to be pissed becuase Indy was putting 8 in the box and we weren't adjusting to it. But after taking some time to think about it, I'm thinking that the Colts D LINEMEN were making the majority of the tackles on running plays, which means our OLmen couldn't handle guys they outweigh by 30-50 pounds. Game plan is one thing, but losing the battle on the LINE, especially THAT line is unacceptable.

Was this the case?