Still playing hurt Conrad Dobler

[KingPriest2]

Summary: The plight of Leawood, Kansas' Conrad Dobler, recently profiled in the December issue of Kansas City Sports & Fitness magazine, is featured this month on HBO's award-winning program "Real Sports With Bryant Gumbel" on a segment analyzing how the NFL treats its former players. Dobler concluded the interview by saying that he has contemplated suicide so that he is not a burden to his loved ones.

Still Playing Hurt
To a large degree, today's NFL was built by decades of athletes who played for low salaries and endured pain, rarely making excuses. Endorsement money was a long shot at best. Their toughness and sacrifice made them the NFL's "greatest generation," and they never once suspected that the league they helped build would one day leave them in less than ideal shape. Today, with their health deteriorating and medical bills piling up, many former players are looking to the NFL for answers as their pension and disability plans fail to provide sufficient help. REAL SPORTS correspondent Jon Frankel looks at this highly charged story.

http://www.hbo.com/realsports/index.html

Kansas City Sports & Fitness

"Every time I say it's a game, you say it's a business. Every time I say it's a business, you say it's a game."--- O.W. Shaddock (John Matuszak), “North Dallas Forty”

By John Landsberg, Dec. 2006

You’ll never hear the P.A. announcer at Arrowhead say, “Ladies and gentlemen, let’s introduce the products who will be representing the Kansas City Chiefs in today’s game.” That would take all the fun out of it.

But, in reality the NFL is a business. And a business is designed to make a profit for its owners. The “product” in reality is its players. And, for the NFL, business is very good and its current batch of products is very popular.

However, just like in a normal business, once the product is no longer useful in making a profit there is no need to put money into it. That’s how many of the 7,000 former NFL players feel today. Many feel that since they are no longer useful to the league except to be paraded out for an occasional old-timers halftime show, they are tossed on the scrap heap.

That’s pretty much how Conrad Dobler, who once had the reputation as the “dirtiest player in all of football,” feels these days. An offensive lineman, he played 10 years in the NFL, mostly with the St. Louis Cardinals and was in three Pro Bowls. It was fun.

But today life isn’t so much fun for Dobler. He sounds bitter. And even a bit fatalistic. Forget any hint of political correctness from the 56-year-old. He uses a cane just like his close friend Dan Dierdorf does. During a recent event the league asked Dierdorf and Dobler if they would not use their canes because it might make the league look bad. Both did anyway.

Those fun football days in the 70’s and 80’s have resulted in three knee replacements for Dobler, and he is scheduled for a fourth. This year he has spent 90 days in the hospital. He almost died from a pulmonary embolism. He takes narcotics every day. The pain is constant.

He can still tell great football stories. As an example, playing against famed 14-time Pro Bowler Merlin Olsen, Dobler dominated Olsen so badly that he boasted, “ If you wanted to see it on instant replay, you had to go to the kitchen because I knocked him so far out of the TV frame.”

Olsen went on to do FTD flower commercials and even had a popular TV series “Father Murphy.” In one graveyard scene one of the tombs said, “CONRAD DOBLER. GONE, BUT NOT FORGIVEN.” Funny story.

When you talk to Dobler you get mixed messages. He thinks it’s funny that Olsen still resents him. It doesn’t phase him a bit. He still enjoys reminiscing about his playing days.

But these days Dobler is resentful the NFL doesn’t really care for its scrap heap of former players like him. “Of about 7,000 former players who played in the NFL, only about 118 are considered eligible for disability,” he says, adding with disdain, ‘They deny everything. Statistically, that makes the NFL the safest profession in the world. It is even safer than being a greeter at Wal-Mart.”

His personal medical bills are astronomical. Add to it that his wife, Joy, was paralyzed in a freak accident in 2001 when she fell climbing into a hammock, and things have piled up on him. He is grateful that that golfer Phil Mickelson learned of his situation and is currently paying his daughter’s tuition at Miami University of Ohio.

Sometimes folks think these old-timers made millions of dollars like they do today. Dobler's first contract was for $17,000 and his last was about $50,000.

He will slip into the conversation if you know any nurses refer them to his small business---Superior Healthcare Staffing---and he can find them positions. Or, if any businesses need group flu shots he can arrange it if they call him at (913) 383-0991.

And then he adds that if you know anyone interested in a nice home in Leawood…

[htismaqe]

I know we spend alot of time on here bashing the Chiefs about the "business" aspect of the game, but something really needs to be done about it.

[siberian khatru]

I was a big fan of those Cardinal teams of the 70s. I loved Dobler, even though he was a dirty player. That St. Louis O-line was terrific -- Dierdorf/Dobler/Banks/Young/Finney.

[Phobia]

I really, really struggle with the business side of the sport. It makes it hard to be a fan sometimes. I've often considered tossing the NFL to the wayside. Sometimes I've even thought about writing an investigational tell-all. I dunno - maybe one day I'll crack.

[htismaqe]

I really, really struggle with the business side of the sport. It makes it hard to be a fan sometimes. I've often considered tossing the NFL to the wayside. Sometimes I've even thought about writing an investigational tell-all. I dunno - maybe one day I'll crack.

Most of the "business" stuff I can handle. But this isn't one of them - the way the league sweeps health and injury issues under the rug is reprehensible.

[crazycoffey]

I don't go back that far, to have watched them live, seen a few bits on past games when I can. don't know much about him, but I have heard about this problem with retired players.

It is quite ugly, if a Microsoft did this to their retirees, there would be riots. The NFL is a huge corporation, yes I agree it should be fixed. I don't know how.

I reckonize the problem and demand action without giving solutions.

Dammit, I just turned into John Kerry!!!!!

[HemiEd]

Pathetic situation, owners are being to greedy.

[Phobia]

If you want to cancel your season tickets for any reason, it's not because the Chiefs suck - this should be the most compelling reason out there.

[crazycoffey]

If you want to cancel your season tickets for any reason, it's not because the Chiefs suck - this should be the most compelling reason out there.


It would only work if you really organized it and had everyone cancel on the same day at the same time.

Get someone to head it up, get everyone real serious, get everyone to give you the power of attorney over thier tickets for a set period, then you could go to Carl and see his face personally (take a small camera) when you are there to threaten to cancel the season tickets for a set percentage of ticket holders if he doesn't start a drive to change this retirement situation. It would have his attention if that was a high number, that's for sure.

[Phobia]

I'm not suggesting that I'll organize anything at all. I just think that their treatment of the old-timers is much worse than not putting a winning product on the field. They put the screws to everybody they can in their business methods and forget about the product that made them what they are in the process. The NFLPA doesn't represent them - they need to organize, clearly.

[HonestChieffan]

On the other hand...and there are two sides to this...

Its fine to have feelings for the ex players. But when you read of mutimillion dollar paid players who in a matter of a couple years are broke...

Or when you realize that the pay levels for EVERYONE was low in the 60s compared to today...

And that had those early players invested with some smarts they would be far better off today no different than the guy who workde at Ford or poured concrete in the dead of winter for $1.35 per hour....

Seems to me these guys are not really any different than the cattle rancher who worked 12 months out of the year, rain snow cold heat to barely make it with NO health care and no benefits and on and on and on..He now suffers from the same joint issues, the same health issues.

Sad Dobler is going through what he is going through, but is it really someone elses responsibility?

[crazycoffey]

I'm not suggesting that I'll organize anything at all. I just think that their treatment of the old-timers is much worse than not putting a winning product on the field. They put the screws to everybody they can in their business methods and forget about the product that made them what they are in the process. The NFLPA doesn't represent them - they need to organize, clearly.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate. I just had a thought of 75 % of the ticket holders, coming to carl with the threat that if he doesn't start some waves with the owners, the income from ticket sales, comes to a stop, the media gets ahold of it, other markets start the same thing, it's like an updated sit-in.

Sorry, my mom was a hippie, it comes out from time to time, I can't help it.



Must fight these damn liberal instincts.....


..............excuse me while I go watch old war movies and play with my guns.

[Phobia]

The Doblers and Websters made it possible for elite players to cash 8 figure checks, sign 9 figure contracts, and for owners to collect BILLIONS in revenue. If they can't take better care of the pioneers of the sport then I have a problem soliciting their products in the future. I don't care what their contracts stated or what legal obligation they're under, there's no reason for these guys to walk around with little or no healthcare.

[vincent]

On the other hand...and there are two sides to this...

Its fine to have feelings for the ex players. But when you read of mutimillion dollar paid players who in a matter of a couple years are broke...

Or when you realize that the pay levels for EVERYONE was low in the 60s compared to today...

And that had those early players invested with some smarts they would be far better off today no different than the guy who workde at Ford or poured concrete in the dead of winter for $1.35 per hour....

Seems to me these guys are not really any different than the cattle rancher who worked 12 months out of the year, rain snow cold heat to barely make it with NO health care and no benefits and on and on and on..He now suffers from the same joint issues, the same health issues.

Sad Dobler is going through what he is going through, but is it really someone elses responsibility?

good point. But I hardly think anyone was paying money to watch the cattle rancher work for entertainment. Also, about the guys who make millions and piss it all away, they brought that on theirselves, but at least they had the opportunity to do so.

[Pitt Gorilla]

I don't know what to think here. It seems clear that the NFL and the current players cashing HUGE checks should do something for the guys who made it all possible. On the other hand, it's not like someone forced these guys to play in such a violent sport.

[Silock]

I know the Dobler family very well, as I went to high school with Conrad's son. He might have been a dirty player, but he and his wife are some of the nicest people I have ever met. Really, REALLY sucks what they're going through.

As much as there's a business side to all this, the human side of me really wants them to help him as much as is possible.

[Phobia]

I don't know what to think here. It seems clear that the NFL and the current players cashing HUGE checks should do something for the guys who made it all possible. On the other hand, it's not like someone forced these guys to play in such a violent sport.

I'm not suggesting the NFL buy all these guys houses and cars. But at the very least their basic medical needs should be provided for. The NFL has nearly always swept the fallen players under the rug until it's time to trot the Dennis Byrds and Earl Campbells out for the dog and pony halftime show. Actually Byrd and Campbell are poor examples, they probably receive adequate benefits. It's the guys who played in the 50's-80's who are screwed. The longer the NFL can keep a lid on it, the faster they all die off like Webster. I'm shocked somebody hasn't organized a class-action lawsuit.

[Silock]

I'm shocked somebody hasn't organized a class-action lawsuit.

I agree with you in principal, but if a class-action suit were successful, that would set a VERY bad precedent for other businesses. The NFL, and other major sporting leagues, should do it on pure principal.

[Phobia]

The NFL, and other major sporting leagues, should do it on pure principal.

There's no doubt about that. In fact, that's one ticket price increase I could get behind - the former players' medical benefit surcharge - though I don't think it should actually come to that. I'm sure there's PLENTY of money in the coffers to care for these guys.

[KingPriest2]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate. I just had a thought of 75 % of the ticket holders, coming to carl with the threat that if he doesn't start some waves with the owners, the income from ticket sales, comes to a stop, the media gets ahold of it, other markets start the same thing, it's like an updated sit-in.

Sorry, my mom was a hippie, it comes out from time to time, I can't help it.



Must fight these damn liberal instincts.....


..............excuse me while I go watch old war movies and play with my guns.


UM Old NFL players were employees and cattle ranchers usually work for themselves.. Also the game is more violent then being a rancher

[Silock]

There's no doubt about that. In fact, that's one ticket price increase I could get behind - the former players' medical benefit surcharge - though I don't think it should actually come to that. I'm sure there's PLENTY of money in the coffers to care for these guys.

Yup. They're the ones that made it possible for the guys today to earn the big bucks and for the league itself to be successful. They owe it to them.

[crazycoffey]

UM Old NFL players were employees and cattle ranchers usually work for themselves.. Also the game is more violent then being a rancher









I didn't have a single comment about the cattle rancher –to- football is a violent sport conversation.

If I would have commented on it I might have used a phrase like “apples to oranges”, and probably make the same point as you. At least, it would be very closely related to it, anyway.




Umm, or I'm sorry were you asking me for an opinion on this, or just randomly picking posters to respond incoherently too?

[Phobia]

If nothing else, current superstars should adopt a few old-timers and make sure they're cared for. In that regard, I was a big fan of Dick Vermeil's treatment of Leonard Tose.

[Extra Point]

Hey, gang. Proof positive that the NFLPA is a joke. This article explains why the unregulated union has failed.

[htismaqe]

I'm not suggesting the NFL buy all these guys houses and cars. But at the very least their basic medical needs should be provided for. The NFL has nearly always swept the fallen players under the rug

Bingo, that's it right there.

[BigRedChief]

The NFL should do more for the old timers thats for sure but no one was forced to follow that path. They chose that path. They knew their bodies would pay for the pounding later. That being said the NFL should be paying for their medical bills. Theres enough money in the kitty to take care of these guys.

[Pitt Gorilla]

If nothing else, current superstars should adopt a few old-timers and make sure they're cared for. In that regard, I was a big fan of Dick Vermeil's treatment of Leonard Tose.That was my thought as well. The NFL should play a part, but the current players and their union should pony up as well.

[HonestChieffan]

UM Old NFL players were employees and cattle ranchers usually work for themselves.. Also the game is more violent then being a rancher

Tell that to the ranchers with knees torn to hell from loading chute injuries, or to the ranchers with both bad shoulders torn aprt with a lifetime of nothing but hard labor loading hay, careing for livestock, pulling calves in a february snow storm...

I suspect that the fact tat farming is the second most hazardous occupation in the country would have no bearing on the issue.

The point is Dobler and his peers knew what they were doing and they accepted the risks no different than any other person does when we all make a choice.

I am not making light of his situation nor do I feel its "right", but people do have to accept responsibilty. If Joe Phillips threw his life and law degree away on booze and pills because he was depressed, its damn sure not Carl Petersons job to fix it.

[htismaqe]

Tell that to the ranchers with knees torn to hell from loading chute injuries, or to the ranchers with both bad shoulders torn aprt with a lifetime of nothing but hard labor loading hay, careing for livestock, pulling calves in a february snow storm...

I suspect that the fact tat farming is the second most hazardous occupation in the country would have no bearing on the issue.

The point is Dobler and his peers knew what they were doing and they accepted the risks no different than any other person does when we all make a choice.

I am not making light of his situation nor do I feel its "right", but people do have to accept responsibilty. If Joe Phillips threw his life and law degree away on booze and pills because he was depressed, its damn sure not Carl Petersons job to fix it.

The rancher works for HIMSELF. Any benefit he receives from the work, he gets for HIMSELF.

These football players were working for a CORPORATION. They were being paid a wage, and money earned above and beyond that went to the CORPORATION.

What the NFL is doing is no different than WorldCom, Enron, Wal-Mart or any other big corporation exploiting it's employees and former employees. And nobody is touting the "personal responsibility" argument there - all we hear is how evil these corporations are...

[HonestChieffan]

yes and at the end of the day the return on investment to a farmer or rancher has never exceeded more than 4% except two periods of war in US History. (That fact in spite of what you are no doubt going to spew back at me)

The football player was working for the owner...not forced to...he made a career decision. How hard is that to accept? If I hire you to work for me I dont adopt you for the rest of your life and accept responsibility for your stupid decisions....I pay you to do a job, you accept it or not...no one forced Dobler to be a football player. He chose to play football.

This big corporation exploiting people is right out of Karl Marx handbook. No wonder Iowa elects liberal asshats to elected positions.

[crazycoffey]

yes and at the end of the day the return on investment to a farmer or rancher has never exceeded more than 4% except two periods of war in US History. (That fact in spite of what you are no doubt going to spew back at me)

The football player was working for the owner...not forced to...he made a career decision. How hard is that to accept? If I hire you to work for me I dont adopt you for the rest of your life and accept responsibility for your stupid decisions....I pay you to do a job, you accept it or not...no one forced Dobler to be a football player. He chose to play football.

This big corporation exploiting people is right out of Karl Marx handbook. No wonder Iowa elects liberal asshats to elected positions.


so you're not a liberal?

don't believe in equality?

Think you're better, born smarter, faster, with super bone mass and muscle structure?

[HonestChieffan]

I am consumed by guilt for not wanting to save every poor soul.

Equality we have. We all have the same opportunity. Some grab it and run, others wait for it to come get them.

[Phobia]

You can't possibly compare a rancher to an old-time NFLer unless you level the playing field.

You say ranchers enjoyed a 4% ROI? Now let's make it an apples to apples comparison. Let's say that when Mr. Rancher got injured another rancher came along and squatted on his land. Then the price of cattle rose 10,000%. So while he's living high on the hog on land YOU cleared, cattle you bred, and roads YOU paved; you're relegated to the hay-loft to live out the rest of your days in agony and dispair.

Now do you think new-age rancher owes anything to old-timer?

[HonestChieffan]

1) Other Ranchers do not squat on the injured Ranchers land. The Injured rancher and his family pay for whatever it costs for health care and he continues to ranch cause cows still need care and no one will bail him out nor does he ask them too. He knows he can get hurt and deals with it.

The price of cattle dont go up 10000%. That is a silly and pointless statement.

Lets take it out of the realm of ranching.


Say I work for xyz corp for 30 years. I started in 1975 for 1000/month after i got out of collage.

I work hard do well get promoted, and retire making 10000/mo

20 years later I hear they now pay guys with 30 years service an average of 200000 month.

I do not have a claim on them for the impact of thier success and inflation. Conversly, if said xyz corp went belly up, they cant ask me to pay back what I earned to bail them out.

The point is no one "OWES" Me, you, or Conrad a thing.

[Phobia]

1) Other Ranchers do not squat on the injured Ranchers land. The Injured rancher and his family pay for whatever it costs for health care and he continues to ranch cause cows still need care and no one will bail him out nor does he ask them too. He knows he can get hurt and deals with it.

The price of cattle dont go up 10000%. That is a silly and pointless statement.

I realize it's silly but it's an analogy that is similar to the actual plight of former NFL players. They have every reason to be bitter about being tossed on the scrap heap while owners, coaches, and current players win the proverbial lottery with their annual salary and bonuses.

[HonestChieffan]

Well we all have the right to feel bitter when we end our careers and feel bitter cause others have done better.

The business may choose to help but they are not obligated to.

[Phobia]

The "business" has been blessed with the more than adequate opportunity to help these guys just as those men helped them grow their business in leaner years. They may not be legally bound to but they're certainly obligated to help, both morally and biblically.

[htismaqe]

yes and at the end of the day the return on investment to a farmer or rancher has never exceeded more than 4% except two periods of war in US History. (That fact in spite of what you are no doubt going to spew back at me)

The football player was working for the owner...not forced to...he made a career decision. How hard is that to accept? If I hire you to work for me I dont adopt you for the rest of your life and accept responsibility for your stupid decisions....I pay you to do a job, you accept it or not...no one forced Dobler to be a football player. He chose to play football.

This big corporation exploiting people is right out of Karl Marx handbook. No wonder Iowa elects liberal asshats to elected positions.

ROFL

You're a moron.

And I'm not a liberal.

[HonestChieffan]

No, conservatives are well recognized for their rants against the spoils of big corporations. Thats why you come across so well.

[htismaqe]

No, conservatives are well recognized for their rants against the spoils of big corporations. Thats why you come across so well.

Nice to see you can make sweeping generalizations.

I didn't vote for any of those so-called "liberal asshats".

So by all means continue. It just bolsters the argument that you're a moron.

[crazycoffey]

I am consumed by guilt for not wanting to save every poor soul.

Equality we have. We all have the same opportunity. Some grab it and run, others wait for it to come get them.



Are there really only those two distinctions?

I agree that there are scumbags, that do nothing and expect everything, but there are good solid hard working individuals that do not have an ability to simply "grab it and run".

This is the mentality that is running the public opinion of the republican party to the ground. I just hate all the way left or way right thought process.

There has to be room for middle ground and there certainly are more than two variables that affect our lot in life.

[Monty]

I know the Dobler family very well, as I went to high school with Conrad's son. He might have been a dirty player, but he and his wife are some of the nicest people I have ever met. Really, REALLY sucks what they're going through.

As much as there's a business side to all this, the human side of me really wants them to help him as much as is possible.

When I was a kid growing up in Wyoming, Nick Bebout and Conrad used to attend the Ducks Unlimited banquets that my dad attended. This was around 1977-78. I loved to listen to their stories and I had nothing but respect for these guys. They were genuine and sincere gave me some great advice about playing football. As I'm sure you all know, Wyoming isn't exactly the mecca for great football knowledge, so any help was greatly appreciated. :thumb: I remember being so excited when I saw Conrad and Nick playing because I knew them. I loved football, but became a big fan of the NFL because of their influence. It's sad to see the veterans disrespected in this way, but IMO it's no different than the cowboy referenced in the post above or someone who is 50ish that is laid off without a decent retirement package and/or med benefits. This is a business, pure and simple. Wish it were different, but that's the reality.

[htismaqe]

When I was a kid growing up in Wyoming, Nick Bebout and Conrad used to attend the Ducks Unlimited banquets that my dad attended. This was around 1977-78. I loved to listen to their stories and I had nothing but respect for these guys. They were genuine and sincere gave me some great advice about playing football. As I'm sure you all know, Wyoming isn't exactly the mecca for great football knowledge, so any help was greatly appreciated. :thumb: I remember being so excited when I saw Conrad and Nick playing because I knew them. I loved football, but became a big fan of the NFL because of their influence. It's sad to see the veterans disrespected in this way, but IMO it's no different than the cowboy referenced in the post above or someone who is 50ish that is laid off without a decent retirement package and/or med benefits. This is a business, pure and simple. Wish it were different, but that's the reality.

Whe a 50-ish person gets laid off without a decent retirement, the corporation that did it gets sued and SOMEBODY pays for that person to get medical care. At the very least, the taxpayers absorb the burden.

I'm not suggesting the NFL should be a special case. I'm suggesting that the NFL should be held to the same standards other corporations are.

[Phobia]

I'm not. One does not generally put their long-term physical health on the line for the average corporation. I'm suggesting that the NFL be held to similar standards of the military.

[Eric]

Should be given a broadcasting job.

[Monty]

I'm not. One does not generally put their long-term physical health on the line for the average corporation. I'm suggesting that the NFL be held to similar standards of the military.


Agreed. We'll never see it happen, but I do agree.

[JimNasium]

I was a big fan of those Cardinal teams of the 70s. I loved Dobler, even though he was a dirty player. That St. Louis O-line was terrific -- Dierdorf/Dobler/Banks/Young/Finney.
I liked the Cardiac Cards as well. That was a fun team to watch.

[htismaqe]

I'm not. One does not generally put their long-term physical health on the line for the average corporation. I'm suggesting that the NFL be held to similar standards of the military.

I see your point, but there are a great many jobs that put physical demand on their employees, especially if they're working in hazardous environments or around hazardous materials.

[vincent]

I think a major point being missed in the discussion is that while the NFL is claiming that they are doing what they are contractually obligated to do, there are numerous players who draw Federal Disability yet are not approved to recieve any disability benefits from the NFL.

[vincent]

Seems like the NFL tries to weasel around paying even the agreed benefits, let alone any payments the would fall under the "morally right" category IMO

[boogblaster]

Gentlemen its just business..no where is this great USA will you find a employer that will cover your ass till death..true the NFL needs to step-up their coverage after retirement..but truthfully you should be worried about yourself..Im disabled from hard working in the construction trade..it was a one time pay-out..and damn little at that..stuck on SSD with little income from my spouse, leaves us norms at the bottom of the barrel..hopefully people who get hurt at any proffession will get a better break in the future....