Derrick Thomas DID NOT make it

[leviw]

according to ESPN's John Clayton.

2007 CLASS

Gene Hickerson
Michael Irvin
Bruce Matthews
Thurman Thomas
Charlie Sanders
Roger Wehrli

[FAX]

Dang. That's really terrible.

FAX

[Simplex3]

Figures.

Did we send a retarded monkey to plead his case this year, too?

[PastorMikH]

He may not, but I think it is odd that I am waiting for the announcing of who made in on NFL Network and ESPN breaks news before the announcement has been made.

[DaKCMan AP]

It's bullshit. He had to be accounted for on every play and was always a threat to change the course of a game.

[leviw]

He may not, but I think it is odd that I am waiting for the announcing of who made in on NFL Network and ESPN breaks news before the announcement has been made.

Clayton just got out of the voting room, and they are talking to him on ESPN the Radio.

They haven't announced who has made it, but Thomas didn't make the final six eligible to be voted on...the way I understand it.

[PastorMikH]

DT made the finall 11...

DT did not make the final 6.

[DaKCMan AP]

What complete horseshit. Art Monk, DT and Dent all should have made it at least to the final 6.

[unothadeal]

Damnit Carl :cuss:

[Uncle_Ted]

That's f*cking bullsh!t ...

[leviw]

At least the punter didn't make it before him.

Now THAT would have been a sham.

[PastorMikH]

Irving made it but DT didn't. Sad, sad, sad.

[Uncle_Ted]

DAMMIT Gretz :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

Will DT ever get in when we've got that retard presenting his case?

[DJJasonp]

Irving made it but DT didn't. Sad, sad, sad.


What a freakin' joke. This is absurd.

God I hate Irvin.

[big nasty kcnut]

Oh my god this is the worst thing ever irvin and thurman thomas made it what a fing joke.

[leviw]

2007 CLASS

Gene Hickerson
Michael Irvin
Bruce Matthews
Thurman Thomas
Charlie Sanders
Roger Wehrli

[cdcox]

I'm really surprised. Apparently he is now in the same category as Art Monk in the mind of many of the voters.

[Taco John]

Just out of curiosity, what are DT's HOF credentials? Is there an article that someone in your local market wrote that makes the case. He was good, to be sure... But I'm not sure he's got the credentials and would like to read an article that might spell it out.

Personally, I think his lack of postseason success is going to be a barrier.

[acesn8s]

It's the Great Chief's Conspiracy!

[leviw]

Personally, I think his lack of postseason success is going to be a barrier.

That's the killer.

[PinkFloyd]

Irvin will be sporting a mary-wanna cig and an automatic weapon when he gets to speak...

Yes; he was talented --- but he was a thug !!!!!!!!

[kcxiv]

Irvin and Thurman deserve to be in it.

[Taco John]

I can sympathize. We've got a few Broncos that I believe should be in there for sure in Randy Gradishar and Louis Wright. Looks like Zimmerman isn't going to get in either.

[tk13]

I thought from the beginning of his eligibility that this would probably be the year DT made it. I have to say I'm pretty surprised.

I'm even more amazed Art Monk didn't make it in.

[acesn8s]

Just out of curiosity, what are DT's HOF credentials? Is there an article that someone in your local market wrote that makes the case. He was good, to be sure... But I'm not sure he's got the credentials and would like to read an article that might spell it out.

Personally, I think his lack of postseason success is going to be a barrier.
He was on pace to break the all time sack record before he died in a car wreck. He also holds the record for most sacks in a game. a real game changer.

[kcxiv]

Irvin will be sporting a mary-wanna cig and an automatic weapon when he gets to speak...

Yes; he was talented --- but he was a thug !!!!!!!!
That has no barring on his play on the field, he is a Hall of Famer no doubt. DT should have gotten in


Makes you wonder with a pretty weak class if DT will ever get in.

[Ozarks-Chiefs-Fan]

Just out of curiosity, what are DT's HOF credentials? Is there an article that someone in your local market wrote that makes the case. He was good, to be sure... But I'm not sure he's got the credentials and would like to read an article that might spell it out.

Personally, I think his lack of postseason success is going to be a barrier.

Did you ever watch him play? If you did there's your credentials.

[PinkFloyd]

Just out of curiosity, what are DT's HOF credentials? Is there an article that someone in your local market wrote that makes the case. He was good, to be sure... But I'm not sure he's got the credentials and would like to read an article that might spell it out.

Personally, I think his lack of postseason success is going to be a barrier.


That might be true... But; there's no doubt in any Chief fan's minds --- that DT would have been one of the best --- if not the best in the NFL...

I really think he will make it within the next 2 years...

[cdcox]

I can sympathize. We've got a few Broncos that I believe should be in there for sure in Randy Gradishar and Louis Wright. Looks like Zimmerman isn't going to get in either.

Don't forget Floyd Little. LMAO

[big nasty kcnut]

In my opinion is a guy like thurman thomas get in why not derrick thomas derrick thomas is tied for the most sack in one game was a spokesman for the nfl and a game changer.

[acesn8s]

If DT is being snubbed, will Neil Smith be snubbed too?

[Taco John]

Don't forget Floyd Little. LMAO



Unfortunately for me, he was before my time and I've seen little film on the guy. Old timers speak very well of him though.

[PinkFloyd]

Wehrli played his high school ball just about 20 minutes from where I live... The field at King City is named after him...

He was a stud in all sports then !!!!

[leviw]

That might be true... But; there's no doubt in any Chief fan's minds --- that DT would have been one of the best --- if not the best in the NFL...

I really think he will make it within the next 2 years...

He'll get in eventually, but it would be unfair for voters to vote on "what he might have done".

He was tremendous talent that changed the game. There's not question about that, but the Chiefs had alsmost zero post-season success, and that's a big thing in the voters' eyes, it sounds like.

[Taco John]

If DT is being snubbed, will Neil Smith be snubbed too?


Oh, for sure. Neil Smith doesn't have HOF credentials, even with a Superbowl ring.

[DJJasonp]

Just out of curiosity, what are DT's HOF credentials? Is there an article that someone in your local market wrote that makes the case. He was good, to be sure... But I'm not sure he's got the credentials and would like to read an article that might spell it out.

Personally, I think his lack of postseason success is going to be a barrier.

I sent an email to DR Z about this not too long ago showing the comparison stats to Reggie White and Bruce Smith....if you take the per-game averages, DT was better that both of those in a couple different categories...forced fumbles is one I remember.

I'm too disappointed to go through it again right now....but his stats are very close, if not better, than both those players in some categories.

Sacks per game is another I believe (cause Bruce Smith played forever).

Anyways....I'm very disappointed today

[BigRock]

Just out of curiosity, what are DT's HOF credentials? Is there an article that someone in your local market wrote that makes the case. He was good, to be sure... But I'm not sure he's got the credentials and would like to read an article that might spell it out.
Not exactly an article, but here's a rundown of a lot of his accomplishments:

http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/misc/2007_dt_hof.pdf

[PinkFloyd]

If DT is being snubbed, will Neil Smith be snubbed too?

And King Carl....



ROFL ROFL ROFL

[cdcox]

Unfortunately for me, he was before my time and I've seen little film on the guy. Old timers speak very well of him though.

I saw all the guys on your list play. The only one that would come even close IMO is Gradishar. But even he's a level below the HOF caliber LB.

[tk13]

I think if you actually watched him play, it's a no-brainer. He was a HOF caliber player, very few players changed the game, and a franchise, like he did.

In the last 35 years of Chiefs football:

Playoff games with DT: 10 in 11 years
Playoff games without DT: 3 in 24 years

That's it right there. And one of those 3 playoff appearances was just this year, when we got in on the last day because of several upsets. Before that it was 1 playoff appearance in the 18 years before DT showed up, and only 1 since his death. The lack of playoff success probably does hurt him, but that's not all really his fault, one player can't win a Super Bowl. I think you'd be extremely hard pressed to find any other player on the ballot that had as much impact on an organization as DT did.

[Demonpenz]

he didn't show up in the real big games and a liability against the run. Game over

[CoMoChief]

Michael ****ing Irvin.

Thanks Blob Gretz.

[acesn8s]

I think if you actually watched him play, it's a no-brainer. He was a HOF caliber player, very few players changed the game, and a franchise, like he did.

In the last 35 years of Chiefs football:

Playoff games with DT: 10 in 11 years
Playoff games without DT: 3 in 24 years

That's it right there. And one of those 3 playoff appearances was just this year, when we got in on the last day because of several upsets. Before that it was 1 playoff appearance in the 18 years before DT showed up, and only 1 since his death. The lack of playoff success probably does hurt him, but that's not all really his fault, one player can't win a Super Bowl. I think you'd be extremely hard pressed to find any other player on the ballot that had as much impact on an organization as DT did.
He shouldn't be punished because the offense had to suffer because of Martyball. :banghead:

[DaKCMan AP]

Just out of curiosity, what are DT's HOF credentials? Is there an article that someone in your local market wrote that makes the case. He was good, to be sure... But I'm not sure he's got the credentials and would like to read an article that might spell it out.

Personally, I think his lack of postseason success is going to be a barrier.

GRETZ: DT: The Last Word
Feb 11, 2005, 4:16:45 AM by Bob Gretz - FAQ


I must admit that I’m a bit uncomfortable in writing this missive. Thanks to factors out of my control, I became part of a story this week. Quite frankly, I don’t think there’s anything more boring than the media writing and talking about the rest of the media.

But in the week after last Saturday’s Hall of Fame voting session in Jacksonville, my name has been bandied about as part of the story on why Derrick Thomas did not make the Hall of Fame in his first year of eligibility.

I want to put a closing lid on this thing, at least for the next 11 months. Understand this: I would not change my presentation at all. It was an accurate and positive presentation of DT’s qualifications for the Hall.

What I want to do is give Chiefs fans and the readers of this web-site something they haven’t been able to get anywhere else.

What follows is my presentation to the Hall of Fame Board of Selectors. This is not a verbatim transcript; such does not exist as these presentations are not recorded. I spent several weeks working on these words, putting them into the form of a speech and then memorizing them to make my presentation smoother. With minor deletions here and there, this is what I told the voters.

Gentlemen, this is my ninth year as part of this group and the first time I’ve had the opportunity to present a player … I’m here to present Derrick Thomas for your consideration for the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

I know you’ve received information from the Hall and from the Chiefs, so I won’t regurgitate all the basics. I’ll hit a few highlights:

* Over 11 seasons he had 126.5 sacks, ranking him among the top 10 sackers since the league made that stat official.
* He holds the league record for sacks in a game and has two of the three best sacks performances in the record book. His record seven sacks in a game came in his second season in the league, while his six-sack game came during his 10th season … This guy was a top pass rusher throughout his career, from start to finish.
* He was selected for nine Pro Bowls.
* He was involved in 65 takeaways, including causing 45 fumbles.

I don’t think you can write the history of pro football in the 1990s without mentioning Derrick Thomas. No. 1, he was the league’s leading sacker in the decade. No. 2, he was the leader of one of the league’s most successful teams. No. 3, he was a player who could change the game on a single play. Pretty tough to do on the defensive side of the ball, but he did it many times with his speed and quickness off the edge. Few players had the burst that Thomas had. So many times it seemed like he was ahead of the snap, until you saw the replay and saw that he was not off-sides.

Derrick Thomas was a true impact player. I struggled with a definition of impact player until I talked with Jackie Slater, already a member of the Hall of Fame for his great career with the Rams. He defined for me impact player this way “as a player who affects the 11 guys on the other side of the line of scrimmage, and the 10 guys playing with him. That was Derrick Thomas. He was the dominant factor in any game he played.”

An impact player is someone that opponents must account for; that was Derrick Thomas. Jim Kelly told me: “It started on Wednesday with the scouting report … there wasn’t a single play where you didn’t have to identify where Derrick was. If you overlooked him, it was a disaster.”

Both Kelly and Marv Levy told me that besides Derrick Thomas the only defensive player they remember extensively game planning for was Lawrence Taylor.

Dan Reeves said without question stopping Derrick Thomas was the key to beating the Chiefs and that he game planned around him at Denver. “You had to help the tackle, bring the tight end over, or chip Derrick with a back. You always had to be aware of where he was.”

Jim Fassel said much the same, having game-planned against Thomas in both Denver and with the Raiders. “You just constantly worried about whether you could handle him. It was never a good week getting ready for Derrick.”

Bill Cowher took it a step further. He coached Thomas for three seasons as the Chiefs defensive coordinator before moving over to the Steelers. Cowher said: “Derrick forced you to alter what you were doing. It wasn’t just good enough to know where he was, you had to change what you normally did to make sure that he was blocked.”

An impact player elevates the play of his teammates, and that’s something Derrick Thomas did for 11 seasons.

I talked with Art Shell who had a very interesting view of Thomas’ career. Art of course is a Hall of Famer himself, but he coached against him with the Raiders, and then spent several seasons in Kansas City, watching him rush the passer for the Chiefs. Shell said: “The true test of a great player is how he forced the people around him to be better players. That was Derrick. There were things the Chiefs could do defensively in their coverages that they could not have attempted without DT.”

An impact player changes the game, and that was Derrick Thomas. John Elway told me he always felt Thomas “wasn’t satisfied with just a sack, he wanted a turnover, he wanted the fumble.” Elway noted that all the times he was sacked by Thomas he can’t remember that many devastating blows. “He was always grabbing with his left arm, while chopping at your arm with his right hand. He had more in mind than killing the quarterback, he wanted the ball.”

Jim Kelly said that sometimes he beat the quarterback to his drop, whether it was five or seven steps. And Kelly added, he was always swatting at the ball. “If I was a coach today, I would show my pass rushers a highlight tape of Derrick and teach them that style, going for the turnover.”

Art Shell added: “The sack with a turnover, that’s as devastating a play as there is in the game and that was Derrick. When he put his hand on the ground to rush the passer, he could change field position, possession or both.”

Kelly, Shell, Elway, Levy, Reeves and Slater all ranked Derrick Thomas on the same plateau as Lawrence Taylor. “DT was every bit the player LT was,” said Reeves. Jackie Slater said: “I think Derrick was just a continuation of LT.”

Mike Giddings, who has been around the NFL since 1968, ranks Derrick Thomas among the top four outside pass rushers he ever saw, along with Lawrence Taylor, Deacon Jones and Bruce Smith. “I feel strongly that Derrick Thomas deserves a place in Canton.”

Both Bobby Bell and Willie Lanier, two Hall of Fame linebackers from the Chiefs past, saw Thomas during his 11 seasons and both said they felt his play and performance was up to Hall of Fame standards and they would welcome him into the club.

Maybe the biggest impact Thomas made was as the foundation for the rebuilding of a once proud franchise. After losing the Christmas Day game to Miami in the playoffs in 1971, the Chiefs played 18 seasons and made the playoffs just once, in 1986. They reacted to that success by firing the head coach.

Lamar Hunt hired Peterson and Schottenheimer in 1989, and they built on Derrick Thomas. He was the fourth pick in the ‘89 draft and they won a lot of games, more than 100 in the 1990s, while never achieving the ultimate success of winning a Super Bowl. They did it with defense, led by Thomas. In his 11 seasons with the team, the Chiefs ranked on average: 9th in yards allowed, 9th in sacks, 7th in takeaways and 5th in points allowed. He was the catalyst behind those numbers.

In his 11 years, the Chiefs made the playoffs seven times, and had just one season with a losing record. In that time, the Chiefs defense ranked among the best in the NFL. Since his passing, the Chiefs have made the playoffs just once, had only one winning season and their defense has ranked among the league’s worst. It will be 5 years ago Tuesday, Derrick Thomas died. An argument can be made the Chiefs have never recovered, such was his impact.

I know there are questions in the mind of some of you about his overall abilities at linebacker. Was he just a pass rusher? I talked with all of his defensive coordinators and head coaches. That group of Marty Schottenheimer, Bill Cowher, Dave Adolph and Gunther Cunningham all praised his abilities and willingness to stop the run. Those who played against him like Reeves, Levy and Shell did not feel like he was a weak link in the run defense at all. He finished his career with over 728 tackles to go along with his sacks. In his 11 seasons, the Chiefs defense ranked on average in the top half of the league each year in fewest rushing yards allowed.

As for his pass coverage skills, Bill Cowher told me a great story. Cowher’s first defensive coordinator’s job was with the Chiefs. He said about every month or so he would come up with a page full of these exotic sub-defenses he wanted to implement, many of them had Thomas dropping into coverage. Cowher said he would take them into Marty Schottenheimer, who would look at them, and then hand them back shaking his head and asking “Bill, why do you want your best pass rusher running away from the quarterback?” As Cowher said, “I never had a very good answer for that.”

Derrick Thomas did what he was asked to do, and that was rush the passer and change the game.

And, he did that as well as anybody who has ever played in the NFL and deserves strong consideration for entry into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Thank you.

The opinions offered in this column do not necessarily reflect those of the Kansas City Chiefs.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2005/02/11/gretz_dt_the_last_word/

[siberian khatru]

No. 2, he was the leader of one of the league’s most successful teams.


Guess it depends on how you define "successful."

There's the Carl definition ... and then there's everybody else's.

[Logical]

2007 CLASS

Gene Hickerson
Michael Irvin
Bruce Matthews
Thurman Thomas
Charlie Sanders
Roger Wehrli
I am truly saddened today. DT belongs more than Charlie, Michael and Roger (not to say they don't). I now doubt he will ever make it.

[acesn8s]

Damnit Carl!!! :cuss:

[siberian khatru]

I am truly saddened today. DT belongs more than Charlie, Michael and Roger (not to say they don't). I now doubt he will ever make it.

He'll make it, eventually.

Roger Wehrli had to wait more than 20 years. I don't think DT will have to wait THAT long.

[C-Mac]

Irvin over Thomas just doesnt seem right.
$20 says Irvin will make some kind of arrogant comment to Thurman Thomas at the ceremony. As a player Irvin was big, but as a person of integrity and character he was small, very, very small. Amazing that Pete Rose cant be enshrined but someone lie Irving can.

[Ozarks-Chiefs-Fan]

I am truly saddened today. DT belongs more than Charlie, Michael and Roger (not to say they don't). I now doubt he will ever make it.

I agree, thought for sure with this class he was a no brainer to get in today. Now I'm really questioning if he will ever get in.

[Spott]

I guess being an idiot coke head asshole isn't enough to keep you out of the hall of fame.

[Demonpenz]

irvin got in alittle bit because of his work on espn. He is really underrated on there.

[acesn8s]

I guess being an idiot coke head asshole isn't enough to keep you out of the hall of fame.
He'll smoke a doobie to celebrate.

[chief52]

I can sympathize. We've got a few Broncos that I believe should be in there for sure in Randy Gradishar and Louis Wright. Looks like Zimmerman isn't going to get in either.

I think Randy Gradishar should be in there, but I believe it is safe to say that he definitely did not dominate in the manner that DT did. I would hope even a Bronco fan would see that.

[PinkFloyd]

He'll smoke a doobie to celebrate.


He looks stoned right now.... Eyes are heavy and red.... Not from crying either....

[Rain Man]

I think if you actually watched him play, it's a no-brainer. He was a HOF caliber player, very few players changed the game, and a franchise, like he did.

In the last 35 years of Chiefs football:

Playoff games with DT: 10 in 11 years
Playoff games without DT: 3 in 24 years

That's it right there. And one of those 3 playoff appearances was just this year, when we got in on the last day because of several upsets. Before that it was 1 playoff appearance in the 18 years before DT showed up, and only 1 since his death. The lack of playoff success probably does hurt him, but that's not all really his fault, one player can't win a Super Bowl. I think you'd be extremely hard pressed to find any other player on the ballot that had as much impact on an organization as DT did.


Will you PLEASE go and present DT to the stupid committee next year?

This whole thing is a farce. The people who make these decisions need to watch more football.

[shaneo69]

I'm hoping DT gets in the year after Carl and Gretz are gone.

[Rain Man]

Cripes. This really ticks me off. Thomas had twice as many pro bowls as Michael Irvin in a shorter career and was more dominant at his position.

These stupid sportswriters just vote for names they recognize. Idiots. Last year it was Madden, this year it's Irvin, next year it'll be Al Michaels or Ian Eagle. Morons. Just a bunch of morons.

[Rain Man]

I honestly have nothing against any of the people on the list this year, except of course Thurman "overrated and thinks he's god" Thomas, but Thomas was CLEARLY the #1 candidate this year if you take into account his combination of career stats and peak dominance.

[alanm]

Just out of curiosity, what are DT's HOF credentials? Is there an article that someone in your local market wrote that makes the case. He was good, to be sure... But I'm not sure he's got the credentials and would like to read an article that might spell it out.

Personally, I think his lack of postseason success is going to be a barrier.
Apparently he's got as much chance as Terrel Davis does at making the HOF.

[Rain Man]

Is there a chance that they announced Derrick Thomas and Thurman Thomas ran up to steal credit, and the news outlets are confused? That would be a lot more logical and likely than Thurman Thomas making it and Derrick Thomas not.

[Imon Yourside]

hey Teej, you should go no further than your own horseface John Elway who was interviewed and stated that the toughest player he ever played against was Derrick Thomas and furthermore stated there was a huge dropoff to number 2 on the list.

[RNR]

Look I am not a Chiefs fan and damn sure not a homer! Man Irvin gets in and DT gets left out? Look I know the rap on DT sack QB avoid the run. Well as a rival I have seen DT take over a game, he is no LT but is as close as I have seen. Well as I said in another reply there is a line from Unforgiven "derserve ain;t got nothin to do with it" The Hall of Fame is just like the Probowl. It is more about being popular than anything else!

[Hootie]

Irving made it but DT didn't. Sad, sad, sad.
why, Irvin was a great player.

Irvin is more hall of fame worthy than DT...not that DT isn't hall of fame worthy himself...

[Spott]

All of DT's signature games were in the regular season. Maybe if he would have done something in January, he would be in there.

[StcChief]

as the Cubbie fans say "Wait til next year" :)

DT got boned....

but at least Tags didnt get in.

[RNR]

why, Irvin was a great player.

Irvin is more hall of fame worthy than DT...not that DT isn't hall of fame worthy himself...
Really! put the two player stats up and sell me on how the coke snorting overrated Irvin gets in as a no brainer.

[Spott]

Not to mention that if they would have actually called offensive pass interference back then, his numbers would be about half what they were.

[Imon Yourside]

DT didn't do much in the postseason because he was double teamed pretty much the entire time. So it turned out to be a pretty good strategy by the opposing teams.

[Jenson71]

why, Irvin was a great player.

Irvin is more hall of fame worthy than DT...not that DT isn't hall of fame worthy himself...

If only DT had Irving's rings...

[RNR]

If only DT had Irving's rings...
If he only would have had chance to play on those teams.

[petegz28]

DT didn't do much in the postseason because he was double teamed pretty much the entire time. So it turned out to be a pretty good strategy by the opposing teams.


Really? I bet Warren Moon would say different.

[Rain Man]

All of DT's signature games were in the regular season. Maybe if he would have done something in January, he would be in there.

Then they should change the name of the building to the "Hall of Famous Players Who Played on Strong Teams".

[petegz28]

Then they should change the name of the building to the "Hall of Famous Players Who Played on Strong Teams".


Yeah or "hall of post season fame"

[dirk digler]

WOW! I thought DT would make it this year. What a weak ass class and he couldn't even get in. I think I read something in the paper that there were 5 voters who would vote no on DT until Dent got in.

[Rain Man]

Yeah or "hall of post season fame"

That would in fact be perhaps the most accurate name.

Though I'm perplexed about the fact that half the Cardinals' backfield is now in the Hall of Fame, while no Chiefs defensive back is.


Roger Wehrli – 1969-1982, 14 years, 7 pro bowls, 40 interceptions, 6 interceptions in best season. Career Record: 90-104-5, Postseason Record – 0-0. In Hall of Fame.

Larry Wilson – 1960-1972, 13 years, 8 pro bowls, 52 interceptions, “inventor” of safety blitz, 10 interceptions in best season. Career Record: 83-81-12, Postseason Record – 0-0. In Hall of Fame.

Emmitt Thomas – 1966-1978, 13 years, 5 pro bowls, 58 interceptions, played for Super Bowl winner and AFL champion, 12 interceptions in best season. Career Record: 96-82-6, Postseason Record – 4-3. Not In Hall of Fame.

Johnny Robinson – 1960-1971, 12 years, 7 pro bowls, 57 interceptions, played for Super Bowl winner and AFL champion, 10 interceptions in best season. Career Record: 104-62-8, Postseason Record – 5-3. Not In Hall of Fame.

[theultimatekcchiefsfan]

Oh my god this is the worst thing ever irvin and thurman thomas made it what a fing joke.


Thurman Thomas deserves to be there/ 4 superbowl appearances minus 1 cant find my helmet.

Calm down, Derrick Thomas will make it eventually. Irvin propably deserves to go also. It is a travest that Art Monk still did not make it....

[Rain Man]

Thurman Thomas deserves to be there/ 4 superbowl appearances minus 1 cant find my helmet.

Calm down, Derrick Thomas will make it eventually. Irvin propably deserves to go also. It is a travest that Art Monk still did not make it....

Did Art Monk scare you when the Chiefs played the Redskins? I was more scared of Gary Clark and whoever was running behind Joe Jacoby.

[Mecca]

Flipping out about Irvin is funny....He was one of the dominant players on the best team of the 90's....He was going to get it no question, that's how the HOF works in the NFL. Thurman Thomas belongs in there too.....

Derrick is struggling to get in because the Chiefs never made a bowl....and in his biggest game he ended up getting benched.

[Rain Man]

You really thought Irvin was dominant? He was a good player, no doubt about it, but in his prime I was more worried about guys like Sterling Sharpe and Herman Moore. I'm not saying Irvin doesn't deserve it, but five pro bowls is a pretty low number for a HoFer.

[BWillie]

Yeah if Aikman got in, Irvin should get in NO DOUBT about it. I don't understand the argument I heard from some of the voters leading up to the HOF voting about questioning Irvin's "character". It's the freaking HOF, it's not about character. It's about how you played the game. If you get caught with drugs OFF THE FIELD, that shouldn't matter one iota with him getting in the HOF.

I do think DT will get in sooner or later. I mean it would be a shame if he didn't. You can't blame DT for not making a Super Bowl. One player cannot take your team to the Super Bowl, no matter how good they are. How many Pro Bowls did he have like ten? That itself was longer than Aikman's career. He was the best blitzing linebacker in the game in the 90's IMO, and that was what he was used as. The knock that he can't stop the run is ludracris, he was used to go after the QB, that was his job, and he did it perfectly.

Another thing that hurts DT's chances is the fact that he's dead. Alot of players can make a name for themselves by being on TV, or just being around keeping their name in circulation. That is unfortunate because the HOF shouldn't be about that.

[Mecca]

You really thought Irvin was dominant? He was a good player, no doubt about it, but in his prime I was more worried about guys like Sterling Sharpe and Herman Moore. I'm not saying Irvin doesn't deserve it, but five pro bowls is a pretty low number for a HoFer.

People remember the Triplets and the great Dallas teams that's how he gets in. If guys like John Stallworth and Lynn Swann are in....there are a bunch of Steelers that are in that don't deserve it because that team won 4 Bowls.....that is how the NFL HOF works.

[Bowser]

Irvin was helped into the Hall by his work at ESPN, as was Thurman Thomas by his personal fluffer Chris Berman. Now before I get flamed, both Thomas and Irvin had Hall worthy careers, but should not have gone in before Derrick.

Look at it this way -

You're the GM of an expansion team. You have the choice of taking Derrick Thomas, Michael Irvin, or Thurman Thomas with your team's first ever draft choice. Who do you take?

[Rain Man]

Just to be sure that the world never forgets, Thurman Thomas hurt his team in three of four Super Bowls. He choked badly and had bad performances. His teams would've been better off benching him and going with Kenneth Davis or whoever the backup was.

[Mecca]

Just to be sure that the world never forgets, Thurman Thomas hurt his team in three of four Super Bowls. He choked badly and had bad performances. His teams would've been better off benching him and going with Kenneth Davis or whoever the backup was.

I hope he makes faces at you during his speach.

[shaneo69]

Calm down, Derrick Thomas will make it eventually.

When? This was one of the weakest classes ever, and he didn't even make it to the final 10. I really think the voters are snubbing him just to spite Gretz.

[007]

DT has not made the cut 3 years in a row now. Get ready for the long haul fellow fans. Getting him in the HOF is about as evident as us getting to the SB now.

[big nasty kcnut]

Here why i think thuman thomas and mike irvin don't need to be in the hall cause they both were not the guys you thought of when they played as being dominant players in their position.

[plbrdude]

If he only would have had chance to play on those teams.


he'd of been in 1st yr of eligability

[Chief Roundup]

Just out of curiosity, what are DT's HOF credentials? Is there an article that someone in your local market wrote that makes the case. He was good, to be sure... But I'm not sure he's got the credentials and would like to read an article that might spell it out.

Personally, I think his lack of postseason success is going to be a barrier.

I can't help but wonder how many players "called thier shot" and then did it? I know of one in NFL, see my avatar, and one in the MLB and that was the Babe.

That is something that should be considered as well but I bet it is not being pointed out.


Yes postseason will hurt DT like it hurts anyone else that doesn't have it.

[shaneo69]

The thing that ticks me off is that had he played OLB in a 3-4 defense under Cowher his whole career, the guy would've been considered better than LT. As soon as Cowher left, the Chiefs switched to a 4-3 and DT was shuttled back and forth from DE to OLB.

Can you imagine a new defensive coordinator coming in to NY, switching to a 4-3, and moving LT to DE?

LT got to play for Parcells and Bellichick; DT got to play for Marty, Dave Adolph, and Gunther.

[milkman]

I can't help but wonder how many players "called thier shot" and then did it? I know of one in NFL, see my avatar, and one in the MLB and that was the Babe.

That is something that should be considered as well but I bet it is not being pointed out.


Yes postseason will hurt DT like it hurts anyone else that doesn't have it.

The story about the Babe is a myth.
It never happened.

[tk13]

I do think DT not being with us does hurt his chances. It seems like ages ago since he was a player, while guys like Irvin are up in our face every Sunday on TV. Plus, since he never actually made a Super Bowl, his highlights never make ESPN or the NFL Network as much.

[RNR]

I do think DT not being with us does hurt his chances. It seems like ages ago since he was a player, while guys like Irvin are up in our face every Sunday on TV. Plus, since he never actually made a Super Bowl, his highlights never make ESPN or the NFL Network as much.
Thats where Irvin had a huge edge, when he isn't on sports he is in the news :shake:

[Amnorix]

According to a very good Boston Globe football reporter, normally there is a cut down from 17 to 10, then they vote in the 6 guys that make it from those 10. This year there was a tie, and so it was cut from 17 to 11.

All four sack artists in the final 17 made it to the final 11, and then, as one of the HOF voters, Ron Borges, another Globe writer and generally a moron, said "the four sack artists sacked each other."

Here's a snippet:


Tippett was one of four pass rushers to make the cut to 11, a group that also included Richard Dent, Fred Dean and Derrick Thomas."All four pass rushers advanced, but what happened is that they sacked each other," said the Boston Globe's Ron Borges, one of the 40 Hall of Fame voters.

[Rain Man]

I hope he makes faces at you during his speach.

I'll bet he says or does something classless in his induction speech. He'll take a shot at Barry Sanders or something, or he'll make a comment about how he was better than everybody else.

[Lzen]

Figures.

Did we send a retarded monkey to plead his case this year, too?

I'm beginning to think that the people voting are a bunch of retarded monkeys.

[mlyonsd]

I'm going to get scalped for this but I don't think DT deserves the HOF this early.

[milkman]

I'm going to get scalped for this but I don't think DT deserves the HOF this early.

You and idiot.

[Rain Man]

I'm going to get scalped for this but I don't think DT deserves the HOF this early.

Come over here. And bring a knife.

Why on earth do you think he should wait? The guy was a sack machine, a turnover machine, and the most feared pass rusher outside of Lawrence Taylor. He went to nine pro bowls. He had the best game any pass rusher has ever had. Ever. He's one of a small handful of players who has recorded 20+ sacks in a season. Those are descriptors of a Hall of Fame guy.

[mlyonsd]

Come over here. And bring a knife.

Why on earth do you think he should wait? The guy was a sack machine, a turnover machine, and the most feared pass rusher outside of Lawrence Taylor. He went to nine pro bowls. He had the best game any pass rusher has ever had. Ever. He's one of a small handful of players who has recorded 20+ sacks in a season. Those are descriptors of a Hall of Fame guy.

I'm not saying he doesn't eventually deserve it.

How many SB's did he play in?
How many playoff games did he help win?

He was great at what he did and I recognize that. But I also remember him overplaying his positon for as often as he recorded a sack.

He'll get there, I just think the first nomination is a bit too much.

[mlyonsd]

Come over here. And bring a knife.

Why on earth do you think he should wait? The guy was a sack machine, a turnover machine, and the most feared pass rusher outside of Lawrence Taylor. He went to nine pro bowls. He had the best game any pass rusher has ever had. Ever. He's one of a small handful of players who has recorded 20+ sacks in a season. Those are descriptors of a Hall of Fame guy.

One more thing....does he deserve it before Irvin or Thomas? Absolutely.

[milkman]

I'm not saying he doesn't eventually deserve it.

How many SB's did he play in?
How many playoff games did he help win?

He was great at what he did and I recognize that. But I also remember him overplaying his positon for as often as he recorded a sack.

He'll get there, I just think the first nomination is a bit too much.

A player is either a HOFer or he isn't.

Nothing he did as a player is going to change.

And there isn't one of those players that was elected today who did more to make his presence on the field felt more than DT.

[mlyonsd]

A player is either a HOFer or he isn't.

Nothing he did as a player is going to change.

And there isn't one of those players that was elected today who did more to make his presence on the field felt more than DT.

Other than do it first.

[cdcox]

He'll get there, I just think the first nomination is a bit too much.

I didn't think he'd be a first ballot guy, but given the competition, I thought this would be the year. Matthews and Thurman were more deserving in my mind.

DT -- Irving hard to evaluate.

DT >> Wherli, Hickman, and Sanders. And I'm really glad Wherli made it.

If you were building a team in each player's respective era, tell me any one, any one, would take Wherli, Hickman or Sanders over DT. It is just not even credible.

[milkman]

Other than do it first.

That doesn't have anything to do with it.

If that were the case, Art Monk would have made it before Irvin.

[DaKCMan AP]

Derrick Thomas is top-10 pass rushers/sack guys of ALL-TIME.

Michael Irvin doesn't come near the top-10 WRs of all-time. Hell, when he played he wasn't even the best of his era. Jerry Rice, Tim Brown and Cris Carter were all better. Henry Ellard, Andre Reed and Irving Fryar all have better stats as well.

[mlyonsd]

That doesn't have anything to do with it.

If that were the case, Art Monk would have made it before Irvin.

Fact is DT is a HOF'er.

When it happens is absolutely irrelevant.

[milkman]

I didn't think he'd be a first ballot guy, but given the competition, I thought this would be the year. Matthews and Thurman were more deserving in my mind.

DT -- Irving hard to evaluate.

DT >> Wherli, Hickman, and Sanders. And I'm really glad Wherli made it.

If you were building a team in each player's respective era, tell me any one, any one, would take Wherli, Hickman or Sanders over DT. It is just not even credible.

I would disagree with you here.

DT was the guy responsible for raising the level of play around him.

None of those others, including Irvin and Thomas had as much impact on their respective teams, or a game, that DT had.

[milkman]

Fact is DT is a HOF'er.

When it happens is absolutely irrelevant.

What is relevant is the ridiculous claim that it's too early for DT to make it.

[kcxiv]

Derrick Thomas is top-10 pass rushers/sack guys of ALL-TIME.

Michael Irvin doesn't come near the top-10 WRs of all-time. Hell, when he played he wasn't even the best of his era. Jerry Rice, Tim Brown and Cris Carter were all better. Henry Ellard, Andre Reed and Irving Fryar all have better stats as well.
you do realize his career was cut short due to his neck? Same with Thomas his career was cut short. Thomas may not be a top 10 linebacker of all time. I understand your biased opinion though, i want DT to be in there as much as the next person.

[mlyonsd]

What is relevant is the ridiculous claim that it's too early for DT to make it.

I'm comfortable with my position. Sorry if it offends you.

DT will make it someday. I will admit if he had help win a few more playoff games or be in a SB I'd rethink the whole thing.

[DaKCMan AP]

you do realize his career was cut short due to his neck? Same with Thomas his career was cut short. Thomas may not be a top 10 linebacker of all time. I understand your biased opinion though, i want DT to be in there as much as the next person.

Yes, I do realize that. Neck injury or not he wasn't the best player at his position during his era. I would take Rice, Brown or Carter over Irvin without hesitation.

[RNR]

What is relevant is the ridiculous claim that it's too early for DT to make it.
The Hall of Fame is a joke it is just like the Probowl a friggin who is popular enough to get in contest. The list of players not in that should be is long. In fact the list of those that are in and should not be is pretty long also.

[DaKCMan AP]

you do realize his career was cut short due to his neck? Same with Thomas his career was cut short. Thomas may not be a top 10 linebacker of all time. I understand your biased opinion though, i want DT to be in there as much as the next person.

I never said DT was top-10 LB of all time. He was most definately top-10 pass rusher of all time at the time of his death. Both Irvin and DT were on the 1990 all-decade team. The other LBs on the team were Junior Seau, Kevin Greene, Levon Kirkland, Cornelius Bennett and Hardy Nickerson. The other WRs? Rice, Brown, Carter.

[South Dakotan]

DT >> Wherli, Hickman, and Sanders. And I'm really glad Wherli made it.

If you were building a team in each player's respective era, tell me any one, any one, would take Wherli, Hickman or Sanders over DT. It is just not even credible.

Who the **** is Hickman?

[kcxiv]

I never said DT was top-10 LB of all time. He was most definately top-10 pass rusher of all time at the time of his death. Both Irvin and DT were on the 1990 all-decade team. The other LBs on the team were Junior Seau, Kevin Greene, Levon Kirkland, Cornelius Bennett and Hardy Nickerson. The other WRs? Rice, Brown, Carter.
You used for your comparison, DT is a top 10 pass rusher of all time, then you go on to say Irvin isn't even a top 10 wr all time. Thats not really far to compare it that way.

[cdcox]

Who the **** is Hickman?

So for the last 20 years you've been lamenting the fact that Hickerson had been unjustly shunned from the HOF? I honestly do not remember hearing his name before today, and I'll wager I've read more about the history of the NFL than 99% of the people on this board.

[DaKCMan AP]

You used for your comparison, DT is a top 10 pass rusher of all time, then you go on to say Irvin isn't even a top 10 wr all time. Thats not really far to compare it that way.

DT was best at rushing/sacking the QB. He is top-10 all-time at that art. What is Irvin best at? Reception WR? Big-play yardage WR? Scoring TDs? He isn't top-10 in any WR statistical categories.

[kcxiv]

DT was best at rushing/sacking the QB. He is top-10 all-time at that art. What is Irvin best at? Reception WR? Big-play yardage WR? Scoring TDs? He isn't top-10 in any WR statistical categories.
Considering WR's time span is longer then a linebackers. If he could have played longer, he would have been a top 10 in various categories. DT has maybe 1-2 years left in him before 1 he retired or 2. he was a back up for another team. Espeically at the OLB spot.

Well, Irvin does hold 1 record and has a few Rings. So there, smy lame arguement. lol

[Halfcan]

Irvin is a fuggin cokehead.

[stevieray]

So Irvin can be a racist cokehead and get in..but DT can't..... seven years after his death..screw this league and it's neverending double standard player before the game BS...and tags was up for induction THIS YEAR?..way to piss on the history of the NFL.

what a fuggin joke this league is becoming.....I think JR was right..fifteen years tops..this league will be dead...and rightly so.

[easymobee]

I've seen a few comments about Thurman not "Scaring" you when he was playing your team etc., but stats dont lie ... he deserves it.

12074 rushing yards w/ 65 TD's and the capper 472 catches for 4458 yards and 23 more TD's.

Lynn Swann only has 336 catches for 5462 yards.

Mike Irvin had some great stats too. Him only being to 5 pro bowls was the product of big competition (Rice, Sharpe, Rison, H. Moore, and on and on and on)

750 catches for 11904 yards

Over a stretch 9 years

93 for 1523
78 for 1396
88 for 1330
79 for 1241
111 for 1603
64 for 962 (injuries cost him 5 games)
75 for 1180
74 for 1057
10 for 167 ( the year he had to retire )

Irvin and Thurman deserved it.

So does Derrick and he'll eventually get in.

[kcxiv]

So Irvin can be a racist cokehead and get in..but DT can't..... seven years after his death..screw this league and it's neverending double standard player before the game BS...and tags was up for induction THIS YEAR?..way to piss on the history of the NFL.

what a fuggin joke this league is becoming.....I think JR was right..fifteen years tops..this league will be dead...and rightly so.
it does NOT matter what he did off the field. Its about what he did no the field. He has rings, he has a record or 2. He was a playmaker. Off the field he is a ****ing dumbass, we know that. He still deserves to get in with what he did "on the field"

[greg63]

according to ESPN's John Clayton.

2007 CLASS

Gene Hickerson
Michael Irvin
Bruce Matthews
Thurman Thomas
Charlie Sanders
Roger Wehrli

Simply not right. :shake:

[Hootie]

DT is going to be a hall of famer...relax.

To say Irvin doesn't deserve the HOF because you don't like him is pretty ****ing stupid. The guy should've made it in last year...

DT was awesome, and he'll get in...what's the big deal if it's going to take a few years?

[Coach]

DT is going to be a hall of famer...relax.

To say Irvin doesn't deserve the HOF because you don't like him is pretty ****ing stupid. The guy should've made it in last year...

DT was awesome, and he'll get in...what's the big deal if it's going to take a few years?

As for Irvin... He was a great receiver, there's no denying that. However, he was a product of having a brilliant offense behind Aikman and Smith, who is one of the best RBs to ever play the game. Also, he (and a few of his teammates) put a dark shroud over the NFL with their whole substance abuse ordeal. I know it's a different sport and a different set of circumstances, but what Pete Rose did was FAR less detrimental to his sport than Irvin's drug abuse. Rose is banned from the HOF for all time despite being one of the best to ever play the game.

[Hootie]

As for Irvin... He was a great receiver, there's no denying that. However, he was a product of having a brilliant offense behind Aikman and Smith, who is one of the best RBs to ever play the game. Also, he (and a few of his teammates) put a dark shroud over the NFL with their whole substance abuse ordeal. I know it's a different sport and a different set of circumstances, but what Pete Rose did was FAR less detrimental to his sport than Irvin's drug abuse. Rose is banned from the HOF for all time despite being one of the best to ever play the game.
and it's totally ridiculous that Pete Rose isn't a HOF'er right now...

[RNR]

Lynn Swann only has 336 catches for 5462 yards.
The fact that this guy is in speaks volume to the creditability of the selection process.

[HonestChieffan]

Watching Irvin last night on NFL Network was really interesting. Im no fan of MI but you could tell this really hit him deep. Very cool...saw a different MI than used to seeing. Thats what makes HOF special.

DT will get in. No doubt of that. It isn't overnight. Have faith.

[Thig Lyfe]

The fact that DT could get 7 sacks in one game and still lose means that at times he was the only thing keeping the team together. He should be in the HOF.

[Deberg_1990]

As for Irvin... He was a great receiver, there's no denying that. However, he was a product of having a brilliant offense behind Aikman and Smith, who is one of the best RBs to ever play the game. Also, he (and a few of his teammates) put a dark shroud over the NFL with their whole substance abuse ordeal. I know it's a different sport and a different set of circumstances, but what Pete Rose did was FAR less detrimental to his sport than Irvin's drug abuse. Rose is banned from the HOF for all time despite being one of the best to ever play the game.


Look, i hate the Cowpokes, Irvin and especially that particular Cowpoke era, however Irvin deserves to be there. Plain and simple.

As for Rose, yes IMO drug abuse is far worse than gambling, but using drugs does not affect the integrity of games. The main reason Rose is not in the hall is because what he did directy effected the outcomes of games.

[easymobee]

The fact that this guy is in speaks volume to the creditability of the selection process.

John Stallworth is always the one that people think of more as a fringe HOF'er (vs Swann), but he blows Swann out of the water statswise.

Swann is in for those acrobatic catches in the SB. If not for those he's just Ahmad Rashad part 2 (Ahmad Rashad has better HOF credentials, actually).

Rashad - 495 catches for 6831 yards and 44 TD's

best season 80 catches for 1156 yards and 9 TD's

Stallworth - 537 catches for 8723 yds and 63 TD's

best season 80 catches for 1395 yards and 11 TD's

Swann - 336 catches 5462 yards and 51 TD's

best season 61 catches 880 yards and 11 TD's

[Rain Man]

To me, though, the Stalworth/Swann debate should center on who was the player that the other teams had to account for more in their game plan. That would be Swann.

[milkman]

To me, though, the Stalworth/Swann debate should center on who was the player that the other teams had to account for more in their game plan. That would be Swann.

LMAO

[FDS]

Looks like Derrick is following a Chiefs family tradition.


Posted on Sat, Feb. 03, 2007
Thomas may get Hall call

After two misses, former Chiefs great has a strong chance to join pro football’s finest.

By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

For Chiefs fans hoping the third time will be the charm for the late Derrick Thomas and his bid to enter the Pro Football Hall of Fame, consider this.

It wasn’t for franchise greats such as Bobby Bell, Willie Lanier, Buck Buchanan and Len Dawson. All waited four or more years from the time of eligibility until they finally were granted admission.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/nfl/kansas_city_chiefs/16612212.htm


PBJ FirstDownSamie PBJ

[greg63]

Looks like Derrick is following a Chiefs family tradition.


Posted on Sat, Feb. 03, 2007
Thomas may get Hall call

After two misses, former Chiefs great has a strong chance to join pro football’s finest.

By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

For Chiefs fans hoping the third time will be the charm for the late Derrick Thomas and his bid to enter the Pro Football Hall of Fame, consider this.

It wasn’t for franchise greats such as Bobby Bell, Willie Lanier, Buck Buchanan and Len Dawson. All waited four or more years from the time of eligibility until they finally were granted admission.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/nfl/kansas_city_chiefs/16612212.htm


PBJ FirstDownSamie PBJ

DT should be in the HOF! Period!

[Brock]

Here why i think thuman thomas and mike irvin don't need to be in the hall cause they both were not the guys you thought of when they played as being dominant players in their position.

I have no idea where you come up with this stuff.

[FAX]

How many years did Stallworth/Swann play?

FAX