EXCELLENT!!!!!!!

[Tribal Warfare]

http://www.eastcoastsportsnews.com/2007draft.html


23. Kansas City Chiefs - WR Dwayne Jarrett (USC)...It's been a long time since the Chiefs had a true #1 receiver.


Good!!!!! Good!!! :fire:

[SBK]

Hopefully our QB can throw to him from his back.....

that's just a joke.

[88TG88]

we can hope and pray but in all likelihood he will get picked up by someone else

[BigChiefFan]

I'd try and Pick up Leonard Davis in FA. He's not all-world, but he's alot better than Black. That also helps us define the draft better.

[That's Right]

I like it.

[Tribal Warfare]

I'd try and Pick up Leonard Davis in FA. He's not all-world, but he's alot better than Black. That also helps us define the draft better.


like Black Davis shouldn't have any business playing LT the man is a natural OG.

[SBK]

like Black Davis shouldn't have any business playing LT the man is a natural OG.

Cool, let's sign him and put him in RG when Shileds retires.

[BigChiefFan]

like Black Davis shouldn't have any business playing LT the man is a natural OG.
We'll have a hole there as well. He's insurance for us. Davis really is a pretty good player, he just hasn't lived up to being picked no. 2 overall(not many do).

[Chiefs=Champions]

was Davis ever good when he played guard?

[Tribal Warfare]

We'll have a hole there as well. He's insurance for us. Davis really is a pretty good player, he just hasn't lived up to being picked no. 2 overall(not many do).


I wouldn't even say that he has been solid at OT position

[BigChiefFan]

I wouldn't even say that he has been solid at OT position You'd be wrong(just razzin' ya a little). In 6 seasons, Davis has played and STARTED 91 games. In his entire professional career, he's only given up 34.75 sacks, that's an average of .38 sacks per game. Basically, that means Davis only gives up a sack once every 3 games. That's pretty damn solid, IMO. Davis is head and shoulders better than Jordan Black.

[Tribal Warfare]

is head and shoulders better than Jordan Black.


And, I still contend that he's better suited to play OG

[BigChiefFan]

And, I still contend that he's better suited to play OG
You originally said Davis had NO BUSINESS being a LT. I showed evidence that contradicts your statement. Again, Davis is a solid LT, he just hasn't lived up to the second overall pick in the draft.

[milkman]

You originally said Davis had NO BUSINESS being a LT. I showed evidence that contradicts your statement. Again, Davis is a solid LT, he just hasn't lived up to the second overall pick in the draft.

I think he's right.

A good tackle, especially on the left side, needs to have quick feet, and Davis doesn't have that.

He's something of a plodder.

[BigChiefFan]

I think he's right.

A good tackle, especially on the left side, needs to have quick feet, and Davis doesn't have that.

He's something of a plodder.IHe may not have quick feet, but we are going to be a smashmouth team, anyway. I also clearly showed that most of Davis' bashing is based on him not living up to no. 2 overall pick(people expect a stud). His numbers clearly show that's alot better than some would have you believe. Davis has only given up 34.75 sacks in 91 games-I'll take that anyday.

Don't believe me? Let's look at Roaf's stats...Roaf played in 189 games over the course of 14 seasons. Roaf gave up a total 61 sacks. That averages out .32 sacks per game. Davis' numbers average out to .38 sacks per game. Very comparable and very much in line with a future HOFers numbers. Don't buy into the hype. Look at the numbers and you will clearly see Davis is definitely a solid LT.

[Tribal Warfare]

You originally said Davis had NO BUSINESS being a LT. I showed evidence that contradicts your statement. Again, Davis is a solid LT, he just hasn't lived up to the second overall pick in the draft.


then why did they move him to Guard, but had to bring him back to OT after injuries?

[The Bad Guy]

IHe may not have quick feet, but we are going to be a smashmouth team, anyway. I also clearly showed that most of Davis' bashing is based on him not living up to no. 2 overall pick(people expect a stud). His numbers clearly show that's alot better than some would have you believe. Davis has only given up 34.75 sacks in 91 games-I'll take that anyday.

Don't believe me? Let's look at Roaf's stats...Roaf played in 189 games over the course of 14 seasons. Roaf gave up a total 61 sacks. That averages out .32 sacks per game. Davis' numbers average out to .38 sacks per game. Very comparable and very much in line with a future HOFers numbers. Don't buy into the hype. Look at the numbers and you will clearly see Davis is definitely a solid LT.

So let me get this right.

You're going to compare sack averages between a HOF guy, who played 14 years, and a LT/G that has played in about 5?

You can't just look at a LT's sack totals and declare him very solid. Look at the whole scope of the offense. The Cardinals couldn't run the ball to save their lives. They have no offensive line talent worth shit, but yet they are willing to let him walk?

Makes no sense.

Davis is anything but a solid LT. He could be a punishing RT, but depending on him to be your LT of the future is a huge gamble, and one I hope the Chiefs don't take.

[BigChiefFan]

So let me get this right.

You're going to compare sack averages between a HOF guy, who played 14 years, and a LT/G that has played in about 5?

You can't just look at a LT's sack totals and declare him very solid. Look at the whole scope of the offense. The Cardinals couldn't run the ball to save their lives. They have no offensive line talent worth shit, but yet they are willing to let him walk?

Makes no sense.

Davis is anything but a solid LT. He could be a punishing RT, but depending on him to be your LT of the future is a huge gamble, and one I hope the Chiefs don't take.
You answered the question yourself, by proclaiming their O-line is shit. Last I checked their are 5 O-lineman on all offensive plays. Davis can only contain his area. Again, the numbers don't lie, but don't let that get in the way for the basis of your argument. Did I proclaim Davis all-world?NO, I didn't. I did however provide solid evidence that shows he's better than he's given credit for. The facts are Davis is on track with a future Pro Bowl HOFer. No amount of spin can dispute that fact.

[BigChiefFan]

then why did they move him to Guard, but had to bring him back to OT after injuries?

Cardinals allow Davis to become free agent

NFL.com wire reports



TEMPE, Ariz. (Feb. 17, 2007) -- The Arizona Cardinals told Leonard Davis that they won't name him a franchise or transition player, clearing the offensive tackle to become an unrestricted free agent.

The move, announced in a team news release, was not a surprise because the Cardinals have long felt that Davis would not be worth the huge investment required either to re-sign him or name him a franchise player.

"In fairness to Leonard, we wanted to let him know our position so he can move forward and make plans," said Rod Graves, vice president of football operations. "Our coaching staff has had an opportunity to evaluate Leonard and how he fits in with our team and we feel this is an option that makes the most sense from a football standpoint."

If the Cardinals had made Davis a franchise player, he would have received a guaranteed one-year contract of about $11 million.

"When we evaluated Leonard, we certainly see ability and ... improvement, especially as last season went on," new Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt said in a statement issued Feb. 16. "But when you look at the situation on the whole and take everything into account, we don't feel that the investment that would be required to keep him is equal to the performance."

The Cardinals still could re-sign Davis if he doesn't go to another team, but that possibility seemed remote.

"That would depend on what transpires and how the circumstances play out. It's not about cap room or trying to make it fit, but it's about paying the right value for Leonard Davis," Graves said, indicating the money could be better spent elsewhere.

"Going forward, we're making our free-agency plans and intend to be very aggressive," Graves said.

Davis, a 6-foot-6, 365-pound behemoth out of Texas, was the No. 2 overall pick in the 2001 draft, behind only Michael Vick. He started 91 games for the Cardinals, including all 16 last season, but never became the overpowering Pro Bowl-level player the team had envisioned.

Davis played guard for his first three NFL seasons, then switched to left tackle in 2004.


AP NEWS
The Associated Press News Service

Copyright 2007, The Associated Press, All Rights Reserved

[Tribal Warfare]

Davis played guard for his first three NFL seasons, then switched to left tackle in 2004.





like I said

[BigChiefFan]

like I said It's the Cardinals. This is the same team that traded Thomas Jones away, you know the STARTER for the Bears. The same team that traded Simeon Rice away. The list goes on and on.

[Tribal Warfare]

It's the Cardinals. This is the same team that traded Thomas Jones away, you know the STARTER for the Bears. The same team that traded Simeon Rice away. The list goes on and on.



yeah, and that doesn't mean that Davis will be the second coming of Roaf either.

[suds79]

You know normally I like it when teams to build through the draft. However, there are a few positions that I could see the value in spending some big cash on and LT is one of those positions.

Will we ever have another Willie Roaf? Most likely not.

But if the Chiefs feel that Davis could be a solid/good LT, would I hope they spend the cash for that? absolutely.

LT is so vital to an offense and our LT was an absolute disaster last year.

[88TG88]

I dont know what it is about davis that just makes think this guy will **** up big time if he comes to kc.

[The Bad Guy]

You answered the question yourself, by proclaiming their O-line is shit. Last I checked their are 5 O-lineman on all offensive plays. Davis can only contain his area. Again, the numbers don't lie, but don't let that get in the way for the basis of your argument. Did I proclaim Davis all-world?NO, I didn't. I did however provide solid evidence that shows he's better than he's given credit for. The facts are Davis is on track with a future Pro Bowl HOFer. No amount of spin can dispute that fact.

When Willie Roaf can play a portion of his career at guard, then you can compare sack totals.

You're comparing apples and oranges. If Davis "contained" his area, then why the hell are the Cardinals so quick to let a former #2 pick go?

I bet you can name about 30 lineman in the league that are on "track" with Roaf's numbers. That doesn't mean they could shine his jock on their best day.

[The Bad Guy]

It's the Cardinals. This is the same team that traded Thomas Jones away, you know the STARTER for the Bears. The same team that traded Simeon Rice away. The list goes on and on.

The Chiefs let Joe Horn, Rich Gannon and Donnie Edwards all go for nothing.

What does this mean?

Jack shit.

[BigChiefFan]

When Willie Roaf can play a portion of his career at guard, then you can compare sack totals.

You're comparing apples and oranges. If Davis "contained" his area, then why the hell are the Cardinals so quick to let a former #2 pick go?

I bet you can name about 30 lineman in the league that are on "track" with Roaf's numbers. That doesn't mean they could shine his jock on their best day.
If you'd read the article, it's all based on Davis' PRICETAG. Again, all I've done is show that Davis is indeed a solid starter, who could still live up to his full potential. It's clearly in the article straight from the Cards organization...

If the Cardinals had made Davis a franchise player, he would have received a guaranteed one-year contract of about $11 million.

"When we evaluated Leonard, we certainly see ability and ... improvement, especially as last season went on," new Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt said in a statement issued Feb. 16. "But when you look at the situation on the whole and take everything into account, we don't feel that the investment that would be required to keep him is equal to the performance."

Not many players are worth $11 million per year, especially if don't feel they've lived up that potential. I'm certain he will make LESS than $11 million per year in FA and why I believe we should consider signing him.

[BigChiefFan]

The Chiefs let Joe Horn, Rich Gannon and Donnie Edwards all go for nothing.

What does this mean?

Jack shit. Pricetag vs. performance. It still doesn't mean those players weren't worthy of being picked in FA, like I'm advocating for Davis, now does it?

[The Bad Guy]

Pricetag vs. performance. It still doesn't mean those players weren't worthy of being picked in FA, like I'm advocating for Davis, now does it?

You're flaming the Cardinals organization because they have made questionable moves in the past, and you think Davis could be another.

I'm stating that the Chiefs have made some loopy decisions in the past as well, but that doesn't mean anything when it comes to current talent evaluation.

Davis, is a big time project. The Cardinals have a lot of cap space. They have no replacement, yet they still aren't opening their pocket book for him despite investing a #2 pick.

His age, size and experience alone are going to command a hefty price tag on the open market.

The Chiefs don't have buckets of cap space, and I don't think they should throw a lot of it at a project player like Davis.

Do we need an LT? Absolutely? Will we still need a LT if we sign Davis. Likely.

[Tribal Warfare]

.

Do we need an LT? Absolutely? Will we still need a LT if we sign Davis. Likely.


Due to Davis is a natural OG

[ChiefsCountry]

I think if we sign a LT, Luke Petitgout would be the better choice even coming off a broken leg. I dont think there is a chance we get Brown and the OL draft class is stronger next year.

[BigChiefFan]

You're flaming the Cardinals organization because they have made questionable moves in the past, and you think Davis could be another.

I'm stating that the Chiefs have made some loopy decisions in the past as well, but that doesn't mean anything when it comes to current talent evaluation.

Davis, is a big time project. The Cardinals have a lot of cap space. They have no replacement, yet they still aren't opening their pocket book for him despite investing a #2 pick.

His age, size and experience alone are going to command a hefty price tag on the open market.

The Chiefs don't have buckets of cap space, and I don't think they should throw a lot of it at a project player like Davis.

Do we need an LT? Absolutely? Will we still need a LT if we sign Davis. Likely.

How is starting for 91 games a project? The guy is a STARTER in the league-that's not a project. That's a PROVEN VETERAN.

[ct]

How is starting for 91 games a project? The guy is a STARTER in the league-that's not a project. That's a PROVEN VETERAN.

Proven mediocre veteran. You just made your own case.

[BigChiefFan]

Proven mediocre veteran. You just made your own case.
Again, look at the numbers. He's a solid LT. Just because the Cards don't want to pay him $11 mil a year doesn't mean he isn't a good player. Not many players are worth $11 mil per year, especially when they aren't considered elite. There's some bias towards Davis that I believe is unfair when you actually study the tape of what he's done.
Even Whisenhunt says "When we evaluated Leonard, we certainly see ability and ... improvement, especially as last season went on,"

He's far from being mediocre. He's an above-average LT, with potential to become dominant.

[htismaqe]

34.75 sacks in 91 games.

.38 sacks per game.

But then there's this:

Davis played guard for his first three NFL seasons, then switched to left tackle in 2004.

In his first 3 seasons, Davis played in 45 games, giving up 4, 7.25, and 5.5 sacks. He also had 11 penalties during that period.

He then moved to left tackle where he played 46 games and gave up 6, 4, and 8 sacks. But he also had 33 penalties.

Obviously, he's not as good at LT as he is at guard.

[BigChiefFan]

34.75 sacks in 91 games.

.38 sacks per game.

But then there's this:

Davis played guard for his first three NFL seasons, then switched to left tackle in 2004.

In his first 3 seasons, Davis played in 45 games, giving up 4, 7.25, and 5.5 sacks. He also had 11 penalties during that period.

He then moved to left tackle where he played 46 games and gave up 6, 4, and 8 sacks. But he also had 33 penalties.

Obviously, he's not as good at LT as he is at guard.
Do the math. When he played guard he averaged .37 sacks per game during that period. When he played left tackle he averaged .39 sacks per game. Your splitting hairs over the difference. The difference is so minimal it's laughable you even brought it up.

Also, LT is a more difficult position to play, everybody knows that and yet he still performed just as well...hmmm.

Again, I'm not touting him as the 2nd coming of Christ. I'm saying he's a solid LT, who's BETTER than any tackle we have on the roster and worth pursuing.

[htismaqe]

Do the math. When he played guard he averaged .37 sacks per game during that period. When he played left tackle he averaged .39 sacks per game. Your splitting hairs over the difference. The difference is so minimal it's laughable you even brought it up.

Also, LT is a more difficult position to play, everybody knows that and yet he still performed just as well...hmmm.

Again, I'm not touting him as the 2nd coming of Christ. I'm saying he's a solid LT, who's BETTER than any tackle we have on the roster and worth pursuing.

I see you skipped the penalties altogether.

[BigChiefFan]

I see you skipped the penalties altogether.
I see you skipped everything I mentioned.


Obviously the penalties are worse for him as a LT. I'm not going to make an excuse for him. I would say that the refs probably notice an outside lineman more than inside lineman moving, but that's just conjecture on my part.

How about responding to the facts that I presented instead of waffling? :p

[htismaqe]

I see you skipped everything I mentioned.


Obviously the penalties are worse for him as a LT. I'm not going to make an excuse for him. I would say that the refs probably notice an outside lineman more than inside lineman moving, but that's just conjecture on my part.

How about responding to the facts that I presented instead of waffling? :p

The fact is he's the best LT that is going to be available in free agency.

He'll get far more money than he's worth.

[BigChiefFan]

The fact is he's the best LT that is going to be available in free agency.

He'll get far more money than he's worth. A good team inquires about his asking price and works with the agent to make something happen. The interested teams will set the amount he is worth, not Davis.

It's like buying a house. You offer what you feel comfortable with. The agent looks at all of the OFFERS and then let's their client decide.

[htismaqe]

A good team inquires about his asking price and works with the agent to make something happen. The interested teams will set the amount he is worth, not Davis.

It's like buying a house. You offer what you feel comfortable with. The agent looks at all of the OFFERS and then let's their client decide.

A good team doesn't sign Leonard Davis.

[BigChiefFan]

A good team doesn't sign Leonard Davis.

The Chiefs aren't a good team, in case you forgot. We've got more holes than swiss cheese used for target practice.

[htismaqe]

The Chiefs aren't a good team, in case you forgot. We've got more holes than swiss cheese used for target practice.

So we should throw up our hands and sign other BAD teams' garbage?

[ct]

A good team doesn't sign Leonard Davis.

heh, I second that!

Davis was the LT cornerstone on one of the worst OLines in the NFL. I see him as only marginally better than Jordan Black, for maybe 3x the money (wild guess, we'll see). No thank you.

[SBK]

The Chiefs aren't a good team, in case you forgot. We've got more holes than swiss cheese used for target practice.

We're better than 22 of the teams were last year. We made the playoffs, something only 12 teams did.

We may have played in the Super Bowl if we were in the NFC. ROFL

[BigChiefFan]

So we should throw up our hands and sign other BAD teams' garbage?
Again, Davis isn't garbage. I've clearly shown he is alot better than some here are making him out to be, but I digress.

[BigChiefFan]

We're better than 22 of the teams were last year. We made the playoffs, something only 12 teams did.

We may have played in the Super Bowl if we were in the NFC. ROFLThen we were exposed for the half-assed team we really are.

[htismaqe]

Again, Davis isn't garbage. I've clearly shown he is alot better than some here are making him out to be, but I digress.

I've watched him play...he's definitely garbage. You can make a case for just about anybody by pulling numbers off of some website...

[BigChiefFan]

I've watched him play...he's definitely garbage. You can make a case for just about anybody by pulling numbers off of some website...
I've watched him play as well. He's solid. Sorry, but the numbers are on pace with a future Pro Bowl HOFer and you've igmnored that every step of the way. Now your waffling and saying your OPINION is better than my OPINION. Squiggle. Squiggle.

If he sucks like you say, then how will he make the big bucks like you say? It's either one or the other.

[htismaqe]

I've watched him play as well. He's solid. Sorry, but the numbers are on pace with a future Pro Bowl HOFer and you've igmnored that every step of the way. Now your waffling and saying your OPINION is better than my OPINION. Squiggle. Squiggle.

If he sucks like you say, then how will he make the big bucks like you say? It's either one or the other.

I'm not waffling on anything.

I'm saying I don't give a shit what the stat sheet says...he's slow, he has poor mechanics, and his footwork is awful.

I don't want him anywhere near the Chiefs.

[The Bad Guy]

I'm not waffling on anything.

I'm saying I don't give a shit what the stat sheet says...he's slow, he has poor mechanics, and his footwork is awful.

I don't want him anywhere near the Chiefs.

Amen.

This "he's on pace with a future HOF" shit is garbage.

Davis spent a lot of his time at guard.

The Cardinals have zero replacement for him, a horrid O-line and invested a 2nd overall pick for him and they are letting him walk.

That tells me all I need to know about Davis. Even mentioning him in the same post as Willie Roaf is a joke.