Muhammad was a pedophile?

[BIG_DADDY]

Is this true?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=FFNVJQUuOKI

[BIG_DADDY]

Ah hah, it is true.

[Direckshun]

Best investigation evar.

[FringeNC]

Quotes from Ayatollah Khomeini's book "Tahrirolvasyleh":

-"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual act such as forplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed."

-"A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, however selling the meat to the next door village should be fine."

-"If one commits the act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrement become impure, and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed and as quickly as possible and burned."

[BIG_DADDY]

Quotes from Ayatollah Khomeini's book "Tahrirolvasyleh":

-"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual act such as forplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed."

-"A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, however selling the meat to the next door village should be fine."

-"If one commits the act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrement become impure, and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed and as quickly as possible and burned."

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL We need a new smiley for Islam.

[BIG_DADDY]

http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Authors/Wood/pedophile.htm

[BucEyedPea]

Quotes from Ayatollah Khomeini's book "Tahrirolvasyleh":

-"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual act such as forplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed."
So once upon a time, baby girls were betrothed at birth in Christian Europe.
Girls were married by age 12 and had babies by age 15....often to much older men close to age 40. Don't know about the sodomy part. Islam is mainly an old medieval society doing much that old medieval Europe once did. Romans also practiced pedophilia and sodomy...some even incest. One emperors did it with very young children and then threw them off a cliff afterwards.

[BIG_DADDY]

So once upon a time, baby girls were betrothed at birth in Christian Europe.
Girls were married by age 12 and had babies by age 15....often to much older men close to age 40. Don't know about the sodomy part. Islam is mainly an old medieval society doing much that old medieval Europe once did. Romans also practiced pedophilia and sodomy...some even incest. One emperors did it with very young children and then threw them off a cliff afterwards.

What about their animals? Were they rumpin the rack of lamb too?

[BucEyedPea]

What about their animals? Were they rumpin the rack of lamb too?
I don't know but I imagine shepherds did it in ancient times.
I mean there was even human sacrifices back then.

[FringeNC]

So once upon a time, baby girls were betrothed at birth in Christian Europe.
Girls were married by age 12 and had babies by age 15....often to much older men close to age 40. Don't know about the sodomy part. Islam is mainly an old medieval society doing much that old medieval Europe once did. Romans also practiced pedophilia and sodomy...some even incest. One emperors did it with very young children and then threw them off a cliff afterwards.

My guess is that 12 is probably the norm for primitive societies everywhere.

(Nine seems messed up from an evolutionary biology point of view. Seems like an anomaly to me.)

[vailpass]

So once upon a time, baby girls were betrothed at birth in Christian Europe.
Girls were married by age 12 and had babies by age 15....often to much older men close to age 40. Don't know about the sodomy part. Islam is mainly an old medieval society doing much that old medieval Europe once did. Romans also practiced pedophilia and sodomy...some even incest. One emperors did it with very young children and then threw them off a cliff afterwards.

Yeah, 5,000 years ago. The problem is there is a very large segment of the middle east that are living that way, the way of savagery, TODAY.

[BIG_DADDY]

I don't know but I imagine shepherds did it in ancient times.
I mean there was even human sacrifices back then.

Yea, people really knew how to live back then. ROFL

[BucEyedPea]

My guess is that 12 is probably the norm for primitive societies everywhere.

(Nine seems messed up from an evolutionary biology point of view. Seems like an anomaly to me.)
It does to me too. But we're different than people back then. People didn't live long. Children were often sent off to other homes as servants to work by age 7. Families did this to survive.

[|Zach|]

Yeah, 5,000 years ago. The problem is there is a very large segment of the middle east that are living that way, the way of savagery, TODAY.
No doubt, poverty and lack of education can make for terrible messes. Especially the second part.

[BucEyedPea]

Yeah, 5,000 years ago. The problem is there is a very large segment of the middle east that are living that way, the way of savagery, TODAY.
No, not all of that was 5,000 years ago. Some of that stuff went on during the Renaissance. Men could even beat their wives by law. In fact, it was not uncommon to see a wife chased down the street by the husband being flailed while by-passers looked on approvingly. Oh! And prostitution was legal in the 13th century...ya' know the Catholic century.

[BucEyedPea]

No doubt, poverty and lack of education can make for terrible messes. Especially the second part.
Pedophilia was practiced by wealthy Romans including emperors. They were educated, for their time, and certainly not poor. How do you account for educated RC priest's today?

[Logical]

What about their animals? Were they rumpin the rack of lamb too?
ROFL

[FringeNC]

It does to me too. But we're different than people back then. People didn't live long. Children were often sent off to other homes as servants to work by age 7. Families did this to survive.

Have women ever been fertile as a general rule as early as nine?

[BIG_DADDY]

Oh! And prostitution was legal in the 13th century...ya' know the Catholic century.

Yea well I'm sure the pope wasn't hittin them street walkers.

[vailpass]

No, not all of that was 5,000 years ago. Some of that stuff went on during the Renaissance. Men could even beat their wives by law. In fact, it was not uncommon to see a wife chased down the street by the husband being flailed while by-passers looked on approvingly. Oh! And prostitution was legal in the 13th century...ya' know the Catholic century.

Prostitution is not even in the same ballpark as the crap quoted from Khomeini's book. Neither is wife beating.
Even if they were it's been hundreds of years since we left that behind. What is the exscuse in the middle east?

[|Zach|]

Pedophilia was practiced by wealthy Romans including emperors. They were educated, for their time, and certainly not poor. How do you account for educated RC priest's today?
I comment is less about pedophilia and more about the observation made about the general state of the ME today.

[BucEyedPea]

Have women ever been fertile as a general rule as early as nine?
What I read, was that older men liked them young because they could have sex with them before they were of fertile age. Most women spent their lives either childbearing, then nursing, then childbearing. Average number of pregnancies were 15. Half would die and only about 4 made it to adulthood. For wealthy aristocrats, it was more...like 25 pregnancies because they had a lot of pressure on them to produce heirs to keep property and wealth in families. We have it good today.

[BIG_DADDY]

Pedophilia was practiced by wealthy Romans including emperors. They were educated, for their time, and certainly not poor. How do you account for educated RC priest's today?

I'll give this one a shot. None of them are supposed to be the great prophet and the bible doesn't condone sticking it to your dinner.

[FringeNC]

What I read, was that older men liked them young because they could have sex with them before they were of fertile age. Most women spent their lives either childbearing, then nursing, then childbearing. Average number of pregnancies were 15. Half would die and only about 4 made it to adulthood. For wealthy aristocrats, it was more...like 25 pregnancies because they had a lot of pressure on them to produce heirs to keep property and wealth in families. We have it good today.


My guess though is that having sex with girls as young as nine would have a negative effect on future fertility...things could be damaged, couldn't they? Nine only makes sense if you have multiple wives and you don't care that much about each particular one's fertility.

[Baby Lee]

Have women ever been fertile as a general rule as early as nine?
My grandma worked at the welfare office in Wyandot in the 70s, knew a lady who came in there who was a grandma at 24.
True Story.

[BucEyedPea]

I comment is less about pedophilia and more about the observation made about the general state of the ME today.
Have you been there?
I'm not saying it isn't true. I know it goes on in Afghanistan.
I'm just saying it's an old society and it will take time to change like others have. It wouldn't surprise me that some of that goes on in the Saudi royal family. In fact human trafficking ison the rise ww as well.

But not all of the ME is like that.
AbuDhabi is actually very sane. I have a friend who worked there in the oil business as well as Iran, Israel and Russia.

[BucEyedPea]

My guess though is that having sex with girls as young as nine would have a negative effect on future fertility...things could be damaged, couldn't they? Nine only makes sense if you have multiple wives and you don't care that much about each particular one's fertility.
That may be but may not have been known then. Didn't families intermarry at one time particularly royalty for a while before the bad effects were known about? I think so. Even in the Bible they intermarried to some degree didn't they? In some cultures, cousin's still marry each other today. Some primitive cultures eat human meat.

[BucEyedPea]

I'll give this one a shot. None of them are supposed to be the great prophet and the bible doesn't condone sticking it to your dinner.
Yeah well the Bible allowed certain other things we wouldn't do today or would do as well. Mohummad was a product of his time is all. I believe the Koran has abrogated verses too.

[BIG_DADDY]

Some primitive cultures eat human meat.
Yea those guys really know how to party!!

[BIG_DADDY]

Yeah well the Bible allowed certain other things we wouldn't do today or would do as well. Mohummad was a product of his time is all. I believe the Koran has abrogated verses too.

Give me something even close to ****ing your beasts and 9 year olds. I really want to know I must be missing something.

[L.A. Chieffan]

Al Queda has officially declared jihad on youtube.

[FringeNC]

I wonder what Khomeini's view on magnets are?

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - An Iraqi national wearing wires and concealing a magnet inside his rectum triggered a security scare at Los Angeles International Airport on Tuesday but officials said he posed no apparent threat.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyid=2007-03-06T233505Z_01_N06439574_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-LOSANGELES.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

[BucEyedPea]

Prostitution is not even in the same ballpark as the crap quoted from Khomeini's book. Neither is wife beating.
Even if they were it's been hundreds of years since we left that behind. What is the exscuse in the middle east?
I'm not makin' excuses. I'm providing perspective instead of looking it soley through a modern lens or an American lens.

But you're incorrect if you include everyone today. There's a group called NAMBLA in the US. And there are others who want to lower the age of consent. Some European countries have moved it down to age 12 as well.

Just because it's not condoned or in the open doesn't mean bestiality isn't practiced either. It's a matter more of a society tolerating it.

For that matter, they practice infanticide in China and India and that is today as well. In India a mother may throw her newborn into the Gange's river to die. This is appalling to me as it is to most westerners...but if you intervene they don't allow it as it's that baby's karma. You don't interfere with karma. It's a religious thing. That baby is supposed to come back and be better off as it climbs the caste system. India is just as degraded as the ME. In fact a good portion of the world is outside the west.

[BucEyedPea]

Give me something even close to ****ing your beasts and 9 year olds. I really want to know I must be missing something.

No there is nothing on beasts that I know of. I'm not saying they're enlightened; just that they are an old culture.

I am not sure on age of females though. I wouldn't think that is in the Bible per se, but I wouldn't put it past someone at that time either not as a matter of religion but of culture.

However, Abraham was ordered by God in the Bible to sacrifice his son Isaac.
That was to test absolute obedience to God. That's human sacrifice and that to me is worse.

Sarah the wife of Abraham, gave him her maid-servant Hagar for sex.

Also, animals were put on trial in Europe at one time too.

[BucEyedPea]

Well here's a history of bestiality. Some other cultures have practiced it.
It's not allowed per this by the Abrahamic religions.


Prior to and outside the influence of the major Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam), sex with animals (also known as zoophilia, or bestiality) was sometimes forbidden, and sometimes accepted. Occasionally it was incorporated into religious ritual.[citation needed] The Abrahamic religions by and large forbid it, and make it a sin against God,[1] and during the Middle Ages in Europe people and animals were often executed if found guilty. With the Age of Enlightenment, bestiality became subsumed into sodomy and a civil rather than religious offence.

[patteeu]

Why? Are you thinking about converting? ;) :p

[patteeu]

My grandma worked at the welfare office in Wyandot in the 70s, knew a lady who came in there who was a grandma at 24.
True Story.

Wow. My wife worked in a hospital and came home with a story about a 29 year old grandma. And I thought that was bizzare.

[tiptap]

Plato said that both sexes needed to be on equal footing in order to have a just society (now that was the ruling class). The notion of Chivalry in Europe added in with Renaissance started the process of providing equal footing culminating in the right to vote for women in the 20th Century. After Blacks (at least men) got the vote. Indeed in many colleges blacks were admitted before women as being first in the Virginia colony before women. (Bolds well for Obama vs Hillary).

It is the lack of such footing in Islamic practice that does make such culture inferior as in dated.

But BEP is right there are several colonies or population of people that regular dress up their under 12 year old girls to be paired off with older men here in the US. And I don't mean just the renegade Mormon cults.

[BucEyedPea]

Why? Are you thinking about converting? ;) :p
Who me?

I'm as straight as an arrow.
My value set is traditional morality, descending from Judeo-Christian ethics pretty much. But any theology I hold is a bit ecletic.

Just sayin' the rest of the world is very different outside the west.
When you're outside the west, it feels strange...it's so different.

[BucEyedPea]

Plato said that both sexes needed to be on equal footing in order to have a just society (now that was the ruling class). The notion of Chivalry in Europe added in with Renaissance started the process of providing equal footing culminating in the right to vote for women in the 20th Century. After Blacks (at least men) got the vote. Indeed in many colleges blacks were admitted before women as being first in the Virginia colony before women. (Bolds well for Obama vs Hillary).

It is the lack of such footing in Islamic practice that does make such culture inferior as in dated.

But BEP is right there are several colonies or population of people that regular dress up their under 12 year old girls to be paired off with older men here in the US. And I don't mean just the renegade Mormon cults.
Thank you.

I know many will disagree with this but I read this really cool book about women's lives in the Renaissance, which was a step back from the Medieval
era for women. Per what I read chivalry stems from reverence for the Mother of Jesus, Mary. Even Muslim's rever Mary. Chivalry was fueled by this in the Medieval era.

It was also, the RCC that helped do away with wife beating and to have marriage based on some affinity, as marriage was a very mercenary affair at one time. It was mostly about alliances of families who could bring wealth or stature or both. When the aristocracy started to decline, they even began to marry "beneath" their class in order to survive economically and married more into the merchant classes. That was scandalous at one time. Back then to marry for love was absolutely scandalous. You just did not do that. They couldn't survive. It was the only way to improve one's station in life. Today, be open about marrying for money and it's the opposite.

[BucEyedPea]

Which reminds me folks: What ever happened to that man in Maine who wanted to marry his dog?

[jidar]

what? Muhammad was a catholic priest?

[Amnorix]

:shrug: The Christian (Greek Orthodox) Emperor (or Crown Prince, I can't recall) of the Byzantine Empire, the largest empire in Christendom, was once married to a 9 year old girl. He, at the time, was a 10 year old boy, of course, so as moral relativism goes it wasn't quite so bad of course, but it's not like prepubscent marriage back in <1,000 AD was the absurdlly illegal and obviously immoral thing it is today.

and incest is rather rampant in the Bible:

http://www.apologeticspress.org/modules.php?name=Read&cat=12&itemid=2177

I'm not a big fan of radical Islam, but my lack of respect for it doesn't derive from issues relating to whether or not Mohammad married a kid.

[Amnorix]

Quotes from Ayatollah Khomeini's book "Tahrirolvasyleh":

-"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual act such as forplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed."

-"A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, however selling the meat to the next door village should be fine."

-"If one commits the act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrement become impure, and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed and as quickly as possible and burned."

I'm defending an Ayatollah?

Ok, seriously, you believe this is an honest quote? Read the bolded one. What religious nut ever said something remotely like that, or laid down a religious law or whatever by saying that X is wrong, but Y should be fine. It doesn't sound remotely plausible to me.

I'm not going to go off and research this, but just on the face of it, it seems unlikely to be a correct quotation of a religious leader.

:shrug:

[noa]

Which reminds me folks: What ever happened to that man in Maine who wanted to marry his dog?

Its coming along. I still have to fill out some B.S. paperwork, but I should have it finalized by the end of the month.

[patteeu]

Who me?

I'm as straight as an arrow.
My value set is traditional morality, descending from Judeo-Christian ethics pretty much. But any theology I hold is a bit ecletic.

Just sayin' the rest of the world is very different outside the west.
When you're outside the west, it feels strange...it's so different.

No, that was intended as a TIC response to Big Daddy's question in the title of this thread.

As for you, I've found your contribution to this thread very interesting. Thanks.

[patteeu]

Its coming along. I still have to fill out some B.S. paperwork, but I should have it finalized by the end of the month.

ROFL

[ChiefFripp]

Nothing wrong with tenderizing the meat before you sell it to the next village.

What I think is the sickest and hasn't even been commented on yet is that "rubbing, kissing and sodomy" was allowed with toddlers. No wonder those people are still so backwards.

[BucEyedPea]

According to some research I just did, plus a call to a Bible thumping friend...the Biblical Jews betrothed and married their baby girls at age 3 and consummated relations at age 9. It was common back in those days.

Apparently the age of consent was age 10 in California in 1889 still.

[FringeNC]

I'm defending an Ayatollah?

Ok, seriously, you believe this is an honest quote? Read the bolded one. What religious nut ever said something remotely like that, or laid down a religious law or whatever by saying that X is wrong, but Y should be fine. It doesn't sound remotely plausible to me.

I'm not going to go off and research this, but just on the face of it, it seems unlikely to be a correct quotation of a religious leader.

:shrug:

Google it.

[BucEyedPea]

Google it.
I did. I found this blog with some Muslims, seemingly discussing it.
Apparently, not all branches of Islam support his view.[Ayatollah Khomeini's book "Tahrirolvasyleh":]
Here's a post:
muawiyah
18-06-02, 02:25 AM
Dear Sam, Khomeini was a follower of the Shi'ite cult. This is a path that is deviated from Islam, and infact it has nothing significant in common with the latter. The majority of the orthodox muslims regard Khomeini a satan and a wolf in sheep's clothing. Khomeini derives his support only from his fellow cult followers. Moreover this is not the only disgusting comments he made. He preached much more rubbish that are clearly in contradiction to the islamic doctrines, tenets and teachings. For this reason our orthodox scholars have passed a verdict of infidelity on him. So what he says or teaches is From the Shi'ite cult and has nothing to do with Islam. It should be known that Shi'ism promotes prostitution(Mu'ta), sodomy, homosexuality, immorality, lewd gazes and racism( refer to Usool al Kafi & bihaarul Anwar). So no wonder a crook like khomeini makes such filthy remarks as found in his "tahreer wa visala". I hope this is clear

[teedubya]

and someone 17 years old gets 10 years in America for having a 16 year old give him a hummer that SHE instigated.

Islam had it way wrong... but we have taken it wrong in another direction.

[BIG_DADDY]

I did. I found this blog with some Muslims, seemingly discussing it.
Apparently, not all branches of Islam support his view.[Ayatollah Khomeini's book "Tahrirolvasyleh":]
Here's a post:

Sounds like what they are trying to do to Christianity in this country now.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
muawiyah
18-06-02, 02:25 AM
Dear Sam, Khomeini was a follower of the Shi'ite cult. This is a path that is deviated from Islam, and infact it has nothing significant in common with the latter. The majority of the orthodox muslims regard Khomeini a satan and a wolf in sheep's clothing. Khomeini derives his support only from his fellow cult followers. Moreover this is not the only disgusting comments he made. He preached much more rubbish that are clearly in contradiction to the islamic doctrines, tenets and teachings. For this reason our orthodox scholars have passed a verdict of infidelity on him. So what he says or teaches is From the Shi'ite cult and has nothing to do with Islam. It should be known that Shi'ism promotes prostitution(Mu'ta), sodomy, homosexuality, immorality, lewd gazes and racism( refer to Usool al Kafi & bihaarul Anwar). So no wonder a crook like khomeini makes such filthy remarks as found in his "tahreer wa visala". I hope this is clear
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Calcountry]

No, not all of that was 5,000 years ago. Some of that stuff went on during the Renaissance. Men could even beat their wives by law. In fact, it was not uncommon to see a wife chased down the street by the husband being flailed while by-passers looked on approvingly. Oh! And prostitution was legal in the 13th century...ya' know the Catholic century.Was there global warming back then?

[Calcountry]

I'll give this one a shot. None of them are supposed to be the great prophet and the bible doesn't condone sticking it to your dinner.Kind of lends a whole new meaning to "rub" for your BBQ?

[StcChief]

fall in line Infidels or prepare to have your head cut off.

[Calcountry]

fall in line Infidels or prepare to have your head cut off.Which head?

[Duck Dog]

Which reminds me folks: What ever happened to that man in Maine who wanted to marry his dog?


Seriously, you're not equating or trying to build perspective on a few nut cases in the US vs what millions and millions of Muslims practice today are you?