Hilarious post from the Mane...

[Hammock Parties]

It's amazing how some of these Donkey homers can delude themselves into thinking they have a pass rush. LMAO

Sorry for the long title but for christ's sake give it a rest. Lang and Ekuban weren't slouches posting 6 and 7 sacks respectively. Then, we have one of the premier young pass rushers in the league with Dumervil, who in one limited season, posted 8.5 sacks, 1 FF, and 3 FR... LMAO made even more amazing considering the defense tackle experiment that waste of genetics, Larry Coyer, put him through. All this under a coordinator that wasted passing downs playing them at read fronts, covering flats and slants, or just god awful stunts that took 5 minutes to develop. Don't forget that Dumervil is Bates' type... a fast, pass rushing DE that he can split wide and set to attack.

Bates also employs a more "in your face" bump and run cover, which will cost the timing of routes a few seconds and buy more time for our ends to crush the pocket, as opposed to the famed Larry Coyer "play 10-15 yards off and give up the first down Darrent (RIP)" approach.

Will I be surprised if we draft DL round 1? No. But I won't be surprised if we draft WR, S, or OT either. Frankly, can anyone really be surprised by anything this far into the Sunquist/Shannahan draft tenure?

Everyone try to settle down, look at the beautiful off-season that's happened so far... huge player acquisitions, and even greater coaching ones, and let Bates pick his toys that he has to play with. Sweet dreams of Lombardi trophies.

[unothadeal]

I think you bolded the wrong part. I find it funnier that they think 6 sacks is something to be proud of.

[Hammock Parties]

I think you bolded the wrong part. I find it funnier that they think 6 sacks is something to be proud of.

Calling Dumervil "one of the league's premier young pass rushers" is completely hilarious....

[keg in kc]

Sounds like KC fans talking about Jared Allen.

[Hammock Parties]

Sounds like KC fans talking about Jared Allen.

Bronco fans would kill for a player like Allen.

[unothadeal]

Calling Dumervil "one of the league's premier young pass rushers" is completely hilarious....
That's also comical

[keg in kc]

Bronco fans would kill for a player like Allen.Especially the ones who own bars.

[Reerun_KC]

Especially the ones who own bars.

To bad their taxi service would suffer just like it does in KC when Allen is out on the town.

[Crush]

They're homers, we're homers. Common sense and logic break down at the homer level.

[DJ's left nut]

Dumervil picked up 8.5 sacks with absolute balls on the other side of him. He also did this a year after he tied the NCAA record for sacks and set the forced fumble record

Why shouldn't he be considered one of the better young pass rushers in the league? As far as pure pass rushing goes, he's better than Hali and had a far better season than Allen.

Don't disregard somebody just because they're a Bronco. The Donx got a very good player in the 4th round. While they were getting a decent situational pass rusher in the 4th, the Jets were busy using our 4th rounder on a solid situational runner. We got one of the most worthless head coaches in recent memory.

The broncos have aced us almost across the board on personnel decisions over the last 3-4 seasons. I'd find stronger ground to stand on before I chastize them for liking Dumervil.

[SLAG]

Bronkos Suckos

[listopencil]

Here's the thread:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=54636


What BlowChiefs didn't mention was that it was a thread starting post and that the rest of Orange Mane is arguing with this guy. He posted it in response to all of us other Bronco fans calling for the tam to draft D-Line help with first day picks.

[Hammock Parties]

the rest of Orange Mane is arguing with this guy.

Definitely. That just makes it more hilarious.

[Hammock Parties]

\Why shouldn't he be considered one of the better young pass rushers in the league? As far as pure pass rushing goes, he's better than Hali and had a far better season than Allen.

Absolutely ridiculous. He was really inconsistent last year. Six of those 8.5 sacks came in THREE GAMES! He is a situational pass rusher only.

[HolmeZz]

Dumervil's a situational guy.

[DJ's left nut]

Absolutely ridiculous. He was really inconsistent last year. Six of those 8.5 sacks came in THREE GAMES! He is a situational pass rusher only.

All pass rushers are inconsistent, except for the HOFers.

In 2005, when we were ready to annoint Allen as one of the NFLs great pass rushers, 7 of his eleven sacks came in three games. 5 of his 9 came in 3 games in 2004.

You're also conveniently ignoring that Dumervil didn't even play in the first 3 games of the season. He had at least a 1/2 sack in 6 of the 13 games he played in, roughly 46.1%. In '04, Allen had a sack in 7 of 15 games (46.7%), in '05 he had a sack in 7 of 16 (43.8%), in '06 he had a sack in 7 of 16 again (43.8%). Hali had at least 1/2 a sack in 7 of 16 games this season as well (again, 43.8%).

How is Jared Allen any more consistent than Dumervil? How about Hali? By any measure, Dumervil appears to be at least as consistent a pass rusher as Allen or Hali, and he didn't have the benefit of a decent rusher on the other side of him.

Try again.

EDIT: As for the 'situational' argument...so? The discussion was not whether Dumervil is one of the better every down lineman in the league. The question was, is he a good, emerging young pass rusher? The answer, by most objective measures, is yes. If you can get 8.5 sacks in 13 games as rookie situational player, then you are most certainly a pretty good pass rusher.

[HolmeZz]

And Eric Hicks had a 14 sack season.

Sacks really aren't a substantial stat when it comes to judging a DE's effectiveness.

That said, Dumervil doesn't belong in the same sentence with Allen or Hali in regards to anything. He's a situational player. He comes in fresh, on passing downs, and rushes against weaker, worn down tackles.

[Mecca]

The Chiefs could sure use any sort of end than can get 8 sacks......

[Rausch]

All in all I like the BB and about 75% of people there.

I just can't log on anymore...

[Hammock Parties]

Try again.



No, YOU try again. Dumervil is nowhere close to Allen or Hali as a player.

I know he certainly didn't show up against the Chiefs...

[Mecca]

He's a 2nd day pick coming off his rookie year......I remember when Allen did something similiar and people were creaming themselves......

Guys like Dumervil will always have a place in the league and the Chiefs could use one.

[Rausch]

No, YOU try again. Dumervil is nowhere close to Allen or Hali as a player.

I know he certainly didn't show up against the Chiefs...

Hali has done next to nothing to impress me after week 3.

[Hammock Parties]

Hali has done next to nothing to impress me after week 3.

You kidding me? He was a terror against the Broncos on Thanksgiving night. He hit a rough patch in the middle of the season due to injury but rebounded.

[Mecca]

The biggest problem with Hali is I'm not exactly sure what his upside is.......

62 tackles and 8 sacks is a solid year, but I'm not sure how much better he'll be or if he'll just always be that.

I'd be shocked if he ever got more than 12 in a year. But hey maybe he'll turn out because Jared Allen isn't even putting up upper echelion sack numbers.

[Hammock Parties]

The biggest problem with Hali is I'm not exactly sure what his upside is.......

62 tackles and 8 sacks is a solid year, but I'm not sure how much better he'll be or if he'll just always be that.

I'd be shocked if he ever got more than 12 in a year. But hey maybe he'll turn out because Jared Allen isn't even putting up upper echelion sack numbers.

Get a stud DT next to him and watch him soar. I think he's going to be very good.

[Ugly Duck]

Off topic..... but I just thought you guyz'd get a kick out of this pic:

http://msn.foxsports.com/id/6468580

[Mecca]

The Chiefs haven't had good DT's in a decade at this rate he'll be retired by the time we find any.

[Rausch]

You kidding me? He was a terror against the Broncos on Thanksgiving night. He hit a rough patch in the middle of the season due to injury but rebounded.

Hall got consistent pressure. He's an idiot, but he's a player.

Hali did not consistently get off the block. He's very fast and athletic but he is NOT strong. When a lineman locks him up (read: holds him, like O lineman do 50% of the time) he's stumped.

And I know you're geek enough to know better...

[Hammock Parties]

Hall got consistent pressure. He's an idiot, but he's a player.

Hali did not consistently get off the block. He's very fast and athletic but he is NOT strong. When a lineman locks him up (read: holds him, like O lineman do 50% of the time) he's stumped.

And I know you're geek enough to know better...

Uh, he's not strong? OK, whatever. Go and watch some film. The guy held up against the run all year. How do you think he recorded so many tackles?

And now you bring up Carlos Hall? ROFL

[DJ's left nut]

No, YOU try again. Dumervil is nowhere close to Allen or Hali as a player.

I know he certainly didn't show up against the Chiefs...

Support it.

You said the guy is inconsistent, my counter is that nearly all pass rushers are. The #s are there for anyone to see. His sacks are clustered the same as most pass rushers are. You're right, he didn't show up against us. But Allen didn't show up against Denver either.

You keep spouting conclusions and you've yet to make an argument for any of them. You're moving the goalposts and trying to make the first poster make an argument he didn't make. You keep saying 'oh yeah, well he's only a 3rd down guy'....again, SO WHAT?

The argument by the Mange guy was that he's a very good young pass rusher. His performance last season absolutely bears that out. Is he a guy that will give you 50 plays? Nope. Is he great in run support? Nope. But that's not what the argument ever was, the argument was that he is a good young pass rusher, and that is most certainly true.

I really don't care if you don't agree with the Broncos fans, but for the love of god, bring something better than "nuh uh, he sucks because I said he does". Make an argument and support it.

[Rausch]

Uh, he's not strong? OK, whatever. Go and watch some film. The guy held up against the run all year. How do you think he recorded so many tackles?

He's athletic and fast off the ball, as well as intelligent. He's great on the outside and keeping contain, he's the perfect anti-bootleg player. When the ball hits the grass he's right there. He's got plenty of strenghts but strength isn't one of them.

And now you bring up Carlos Hall? ROFL

No, I didn't.

Are you running low on hot pockets?...

[Hammock Parties]

Hall got consistent pressure. He's an idiot, but he's a player.


Who is Hall? :hmmm:

[SPchief]

Off topic..... but I just thought you guyz'd get a kick out of this pic:

http://msn.foxsports.com/id/6468580



REPOST

[Hammock Parties]

But Allen didn't show up against Denver either.

Complete garbage. He was all over Plummer all night. They were holding him every other play.


The argument by the Mange guy was that he's a very good young pass rusher.

No. He said he was "one of the league's premier young pass rushers." That's a complete joke of a statement. Dude is a situational player at best. A premier young pass rusher is someone like Julius Peppers was a couple years ago.

Dumervil was a speedbump when the Chiefs encountered him. He's fly squat.

You'll have to forgive this Donkey fan though. He once said Courtney Brown was better than Jared Allen. He's not very bright, and a complete homer.

[Rausch]

Support it.

You said the guy is inconsistent, my counter is that nearly all pass rushers are.

Not really.

There are QB pressures, there is a guy constantly in the backfield. Reggie White, DT, LT, Bruce Smith from the Bills in the 90's, and Merriman are consistently beating their guy and pressuring the QB even when they don't make the big play.

[Rausch]

Who is Hall? :hmmm:

My error.

Mean Allen.

[DJ's left nut]

Complete garbage. He was all over Plummer all night. They were holding him every other play.



No. He said he was "one of the league's premier young pass rushers." That's a complete joke of a statement. Dude is a situational player at best. A premier young pass rusher is someone like Julius Peppers was a couple years ago.

Dumervil was a speedbump when the Chiefs encountered him. He's fly squat.

You'll have to forgive this Donkey fan though. He once said Courtney Brown was better than Jared Allen. He's not very bright, and a complete homer.

Pssst.

There were 2 Broncos games. He played well in the Thanksgiving game, not so well in the earlier loss.

I'm not interested in how the Chiefs smoked him in the Thanksgiving day game. They destroyed everyone that night. Again, you're sidestepping my argument here, nearly all pass rushers have bad/mediocre games about 1/2 the time. Pointing out that he had a bad game against KC doesn't do much for me, I'm not disputing that he had a handful of bad games. I am disputing the fact that you seem to think that makes him dogmeat.

Let's take a different approach, lets name better 'young pass rushers'.

Last season there were 21 players that put up better sack #s than Dumervil. Yes, I'm aware there is more to being a pass rusher than the end sack, but sack #s tend to be directly proportional to QB pressures and general havoc reaking, so that'll have to be good enough.

Of those players, only 7 were 25 or younger and only 3 were as young/younger than Dumervil at 23.

Shaun Merriman - 22
Mark Anderson - 23
Demarcus Ware - 25
Sean Phillips - 25
Kamerion Wimbley - 23
Bobby McCray - 25
Terrell Suggs - 24

Yes, Dumervil is a situational guy, but Merriman, Ware, Phillips, Wimbley and Suggs are all hybrid type players as well, who aren't pass rushers in the true sense of the term.

Anderson and McCray are the only real every down ends that make that list, except that Anderson wasn't really an every down player and while McCray was on the field more, he had faaaaaar more help on the line with him.

The above shows that it is undeniably true that Elvis Dumervil is among the "premier young pass rushers" in the league. You can find warts on every last one of them, none of them are Reggie White, but you have to judge Dumervil against his contemporaries (i.e. other young pass rushers) and not HOF legends. Dumervil stacks up strongly against his peers, period.

Rausch,

You musta missed the 'nearly' part. Like I said, there are exceptions, and most of them are Hall of Fame players.

Your run of the mill pass rushers are very up and down. Dumervil is no exception. He's not a great player, but he is a good young pass rusher.

[Hammock Parties]

He's not premier. That's the whole issue. He's a nice player, nothing more. Considering most of his sacks came against Oakland and Cleveland, for right now he's just a flash in the pan in my book.

[ClevelandBronco]

Absolutely ridiculous. He was really inconsistent last year. Six of those 8.5 sacks came in THREE GAMES! He is a situational pass rusher only.

Yeah. I hate situational sacks. They shouldn't even count, really.

EDIT: In fact, I'd favor a rule that awarded a 10 yard advance (and/or an automatic first down) to any offense who suffered a situational sack.

Maybe in 2008.

[Frosty]

To be honest, I was pissed that the Broncos drafted Dumervil. I was a fan of his in college, especially knowing that he wore #58 in honor of DT. He's too small to be an every down DE, but I would take 8 sacks from a "situational player".

[Mile High Mania]

Why do you guys find the urge to argue about the quality of players with GC? It's rather pointless.

[King_Chief_Fan]

Why do you guys find the urge to argue about the quality of players with GC? It's rather pointless.

I sit back and laugh at his stupidity. I wish others would.

[Iowanian]

I'd be thrilled if the Chiefs re-aquired their 4th round pick for Green and used it to get DE depth the quality of Dummberville.

[Hammock Parties]

I'd be thrilled if the Chiefs re-aquired their 4th round pick for Green and used it to get DE depth the quality of Dummberville.

Dumervil would be very good depth on any team. He'd be a great roleplayer.

[vailpass]

No, YOU try again. Dumervil is nowhere close to Allen or Hali as a player.

I know he certainly didn't show up against the Chiefs...

Tamba Hali is nothing more than potential right now, that and a wet spot in your underoos. He looks like he could be something with the right coaching.
Much like Dumervil.

[HemiEd]

Yeah. I hate situational sacks. They shouldn't even count, really.

EDIT: In fact, I'd favor a rule that awarded a 10 yard advance (and/or an automatic first down) to any offense who suffered a situational sack.

Maybe in 2008.

LMAO