Latest Whitlock article.

[SPchief]

Not bad from Jwhit.

http://www.kansascity.com/159/story/66339.html



Imus isn’t the real bad guy


Instead of wasting time on irrelevant shock jock, black leaders need to be fighting a growing gangster culture.
Thank you, Don Imus. You’ve given us (black people) an excuse to avoid our real problem.

You’ve given Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson another opportunity to pretend that the old fight, which is now the safe and lucrative fight, is still the most important fight in our push for true economic and social equality.

You’ve given Vivian Stringer and Rutgers the chance to hold a nationally televised recruiting celebration expertly disguised as a news conference to respond to your poor attempt at humor.

Thank you, Don Imus. You extended Black History Month to April, and we can once again wallow in victimhood, protest like it’s 1965 and delude ourselves into believing that fixing your hatred is more necessary than eradicating our self-hatred.

The bigots win again.

While we’re fixated on a bad joke cracked by an irrelevant, bad shock jock, I’m sure at least one of the marvelous young women on the Rutgers basketball team is somewhere snapping her fingers to the beat of 50 Cent’s or Snoop Dogg’s or Young Jeezy’s latest ode glorifying nappy-headed pimps and hos.

I ain’t saying Jesse, Al and Vivian are gold-diggas, but they don’t have the heart to mount a legitimate campaign against the real black-folk killas.

It is us. At this time, we are our own worst enemies. We have allowed our youths to buy into a culture (hip hop) that has been perverted, corrupted and overtaken by prison culture. The music, attitude and behavior expressed in this culture is anti-black, anti-education, demeaning, self-destructive, pro-drug dealing and violent.

Rather than confront this heinous enemy from within, we sit back and wait for someone like Imus to have a slip of the tongue and make the mistake of repeating the things we say about ourselves.

It’s embarrassing. Dave Chappelle was offered $50 million to make racially insensitive jokes about black and white people on TV. He was hailed as a genius. Black comedians routinely crack jokes about white and black people, and we all laugh out loud.

I’m no Don Imus apologist. He and his tiny companion Mike Lupica blasted me after I fell out with ESPN. Imus is a hack.

But, in my view, he didn’t do anything outside the norm for shock jocks and comedians. He also offered an apology. That should’ve been the end of this whole affair. Instead, it’s only the beginning. It’s an opportunity for Stringer, Jackson and Sharpton to step on victim platforms and elevate themselves and their agenda$.

I watched the Rutgers news conference and was ashamed.

Martin Luther King Jr. spoke for eight minutes in 1963 at the March on Washington. At the time, black people could be lynched and denied fundamental rights with little thought. With the comments of a talk-show host most of her players had never heard of before last week serving as her excuse, Vivian Stringer rambled on for 30 minutes about the amazing season her team had.

Somehow, we’re supposed to believe that the comments of a man with virtually no connection to the sports world ruined Rutgers’ wonderful season. Had a broadcaster with credibility and a platform in the sports world uttered the words Imus did, I could understand a level of outrage.

But an hourlong press conference over a man who has already apologized, already been suspended and is already insignificant is just plain intellectually dishonest. This is opportunism. This is a distraction.

In the grand scheme, Don Imus is no threat to us in general and no threat to black women in particular. If his words are so powerful and so destructive and must be rebuked so forcefully, then what should we do about the idiot rappers on BET, MTV and every black-owned radio station in the country who use words much more powerful and much more destructive?

I don’t listen or watch Imus’ show regularly. Has he at any point glorified selling crack cocaine to black women? Has he celebrated black men shooting each other randomly? Has he suggested in any way that it’s cool to be a baby-daddy rather than a husband and a parent? Does he tell his listeners that they’re suckers for pursuing education and that they’re selling out their race if they do?

When Imus does any of that, call me and I’ll get upset. Until then, he is what he is — a washed-up shock jock who is very easy to ignore when you’re not looking to be made a victim.

No. We all know where the real battleground is. We know that the gangsta rappers and their followers in the athletic world have far bigger platforms to negatively define us than some old white man with a bad radio show. There’s no money and lots of danger in that battle, so Jesse and Al are going to sit it out.

To reach Jason Whitlock, call (816) 234-4869 or send e-mail to jwhitlock@kcstar.com. For previous columns, go to KansasCity.com

[Hammock Parties]

Whitlock nails it again.

[Silock]

Whitlock nails it for once.

Fixed.

But true.

[Miles]

Whitlock nails it again.

He does that far more often than most around here give him credit for.

[htismaqe]

He does that far more often than most around here give him credit for.

Whitlock should stick to pieces like this.

The only time he doesn't "nail it" is when he tries to talk about sports...

[siberian khatru]

This may be the best column Big Sexy's ever written.

[patteeu]

He does that far more often than most around here give him credit for.

Yep. :thumb:

[Simplex3]

This may be the best column Big Sexy's ever written.
It's certainly one of the smartest.

[Halfcan]

Funny how this has been a hot topic on the planet with most of these these points covered- and then Bamm it is in his column. Jwit needs to kick out a few bucks to the Planet for giving him all of his stories lately.

[Easy 6]

I've always thought JW got a bit of a bad rap, i generally enjoy his work. This piece demonstrates real balls to stand up & say those things.

[Halfcan]

I've always thought JW got a bit of a bad rap, i generally enjoy his work. This piece demonstrates real balls to stand up & say those things.

You mean- to repeat the things we already said-lol

[Bugeater]

Until then, he is what he is — a washed-up shock jock who is very easy to ignore when you’re not looking to be made a victim.

Best line in a great article.

[NewChief]

Courageous article. My opinion of Whitlock has been raised quite a bit.

[Reerun_KC]

Courageous article. My opinion of Whitlock has been raised quite a bit.
just a little bit.. not quite a bit...

[StcChief]

JW and others like Bill Cosby telling it like it is.

Now if the rest of the black community could admit their problem and work for change they might get some where and the Don Imus's wouldn't have anything to say.
This gangsta' RAP should have been condemned by the black community years ago.

[crazycoffey]

wow, what an impressive opinion piece. FI think he nailed it. rom my perspective, Imus was an idiot (and always has been IMO - entertainer, is his subject title) for what he said, but the team he referenced, jesse and al are being bigger idiots by giving Imus' opinion such a high value.

wouldn't it have been nice if the coach would have answered her opinion of the comment with "what did Imus say? Well, I guess I do have nappy hair, so what. I don't care what that idiot thinks."

[HemiEd]

This may be the best column Big Sexy's ever written.

I would agree with your statement, this article is head and shoulders above any of his other articles I have read.

[Bugeater]

wow, what an impressive opinion piece. FI think he nailed it. rom my perspective, Imus was an idiot (and always has been IMO - entertainer, is his subject title) for what he said, but the team he referenced, jesse and al are being bigger idiots by giving Imus' opinion such a high value.

wouldn't it have been nice if the coach would have answered her opinion of the comment with "what did Imus say? Well, I guess I do have nappy hair, so what. I don't care what that idiot thinks."
But then she wouldn't get her 15 minutes of fame.

[Mr. Kotter]

Nice job, JWhit.

Nearly a perfect assessment of the entire bogus controversy.

:clap::clap::clap:

[TrebMaxx]

Best commentary that I have read so far on the "Imus" non-story. One of JWhit's best pieces of work IMHO.

[ROYC75]

Nice job Jason..........

BTW, last night my wife and I had this discussion, she is outraged over this. For those who do not know, I have biracial grandkids, so she is hot headed over it while I am laid back about it. I told her the very same stuff last night as we where watch the Glenn Beck show. Then he came on and stated the same stuff.....

Somebody needs to change the culture of the music that most black people listen to . It's double standards to listen to it from their own race and then cry about it as racial slurs if somebody else says it ?

Nothing like having your cake and eat it too .......

[DJJasonp]

Whit hit the nail on the head. He's one of only a few who really "gets it" when it comes to topics like this.

I actually watched some of the press conference yesterday and listened to 3 of the girls give their speeches.....and wondered how many lines were written by Sharpton or Jackson's writers.

I feel for the kids cause their nothing but pawns in this game that Sharpton and Jackson are playing. I'm sure they would like to be known for something...but I'm even more sure - this wasnt it.

[kcbronco]

Black or White, hard to argue against what he's saying. Nice job JWhit!!

Just don't follow it up with another post talking about yourself or Jeff George.

[Micjones]

Whitlock telling it like it is...

Are you all that numb that you don't know that he's executive produced the Rap records of some of the most misogynistic, hedonistic and materialistic Rap acts in Kansas City?

No... Really what he's doing is reinforcing the bigotry that's on display.

He's not who you think he is people...

Please, pull your head out. (http://www.chapmanrecording.com/Music.html)

Who is that gentleman on your far left posing?
Why it's... Your hero... The bigot enabler.

[Mr. Kotter]

....Are you all that numb that you don't know that he's executive produced the Rap records of some of the most misogynistic, hedonistic and materialistic Rap acts in Kansas City?...

Checking the link you provided, gives no support of evidence of the allegation you are making here.... :hmmm:

[Micjones]

http://www.chapmanrecording.com/WhitlockRappers02.jpg

*Ahem* He's the chubby fella to the far left posing...

[crazycoffey]

But then she wouldn't get her 15 minutes of fame.

:clap:

I know this, you know this, even J Whit seems to know this. How oh how I wish SHE knew that we know it, and I wish that the rest of the world would clue in.

[Mr. Kotter]

http://www.chapmanrecording.com/WhitlockRappers02.jpg

*Ahem* He's the chubby fella to the far left posing...

That picture proves the music he supports is..."some of the most misogynistic, hedonistic and materialistic Rap acts in Kansas City?"

:shrug:

:hmmm:

[ROYC75]

Maybe Michelle needs to see Jason article ?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/columns/story?columnist=voepel_mechelle&id=2830562

[KcMizzou]

That picture proves the music he supports is..."some of the most misogynistic, hedonistic and materialistic Rap acts in Kansas City?"

:shrug:

:hmmm:How so?

[Micjones]

That picture proves the music he supports is..."some of the most misogynistic, hedonistic and materialistic Rap acts in Kansas City?"

:shrug:

:hmmm:

As if the posing wasn't enough...

Here's the caption that you missed,
"Game Day Song
Some of the biggest names in KC Rap gathered recently to record a new game day song for the Kansas City Chiefs. The track, "IT'S ON NOW 07", was created by Seven and
produced by KC Star sports writer Jason Whitlock with the assistance of Strange Music headman Travis O'Guin. Just a few of those who participated . . . . Rich The Factor,
Bacari, Big Scoob, T-Will, Tech N9ne and Zig. The sessions were engineered by Justin Mantooth. Watch for the track at games during the 2007 season."

[KCFalcon59]

This may be the best column Big Sexy's ever written.

I agree with your sentiments. That was an absolutely dead on piece. Good job JW.

[Mr. Kotter]

As if the posing wasn't enough...

Here's the caption that you missed,

Okay I reread the caption; once again....what in the caption proves your rather strong allegations? (fwiw, I don't know ANY of the people mentioned in that caption....are they rappers who engage in the sort of music you are alleging? Because, that would explain it....but I don't Know if they do or not....)


How so?I have no idea; I was asking Mr. MicJones to explain his allegation....I guess he doesn't feel the need to....

[KcMizzou]

I have no idea; I was asking Mr. MicJones to explain his allegation....I guess he doesn't feel the need to....Ah, I misunderstood. Sorry.

[Micjones]

Okay I reread the caption; once again....what in the caption proves your rather strong allegations? (fwiw, I don't know ANY of the people mentioned in that caption....are they rappers who engage in the sort of music you are alleging? Because, that would explain it....but I don't Know if they do or not....)

So much for reading between the lines.

The acts pictured with Whitlock do the kind of music that he despises.
The music that he claims is so detrimental to Black communities.

Now, why on Earth would he be posing and openly associating himself with such Rap acts on one hand and decrying the ills of such negative imagery on the other???

Hmm...

[Eleazar]

Whitlock is a good columnist. I didn't like his radio shows, I don't like him in other media. But when he's just being a local columnist and writes a real commentary rather than stirring the pot, he does a good job.

[Micjones]

Agreed.

He needs to get off his soapbox and stop trying to fill Bill Cosby's shoes. He's a hypocrite and that can be easily documented.

Don't be so easily fooled by these "stir the pot" editorials...

[Mr. Kotter]

So much for reading between the lines.

The acts pictured with Whitlock do the kind of music that he despises.
The music that he claims is so detrimental to Black communities.

Now, why on Earth would he be posing and openly associating himself with such Rap acts on one hand and decrying the ills of such negative imagery on the other???

Hmm...

Not all Rap acts are the same.

Do you know their lyrics? You got some links....that would support your allegations, or are you engaging in speculation and stereotyping? Or do you know, based on knowing THEIR music?

Seriously, I'm only asking where you got this idea, about THESE particular rappers.... :shrug:

[NewChief]

Whitlock telling it like it is...

Are you all that numb that you don't know that he's executive produced the Rap records of some of the most misogynistic, hedonistic and materialistic Rap acts in Kansas City?

No... Really what he's doing is reinforcing the bigotry that's on display.

He's not who you think he is people...

Please, pull your head out. (http://www.chapmanrecording.com/Music.html)

Who is that gentleman on your far left posing?
Why it's... Your hero... The bigot enabler.


I was a little curious about this. I've always seen Whitlock as a hiphop insider. He's always referring to various hip hop artists and the like. The only thing I can make out of it, is that he's trying to delineate between positive and negative hip hop. I actually wish some of this would occur a little more. One can embrace black and hip hop culture without promoting some of the BS that's out there right now, imo. We need more Dead Prez, Roots, J5, Black Star, Gang Starr, and less materialistic, self-destructive idiocy.

[Mr. Kotter]

I was a little curious about this. I've always seen Whitlock as a hiphop insider. He's always referring to various hip hop artists and the like. The only thing I can make out of it, is that he's trying to delineate between positive and negative hip hop. I actually wish some of this would occur a little more. One can embrace black and hip hop culture without promoting some of the BS that's out there right now, imo. We need more Dead Prez, Roots, J5, Black Star, Gang Starr, and less materialistic, self-destructive idiocy.That's precisely the point I'm trying to get at, but apparently I'm being too obtuse for Mr. MicJones. :shrug:

There was an awesome rap group back in the 90s called....I think it was, Arrested Development (songs, Tennessee, Mr. Wendel, etc.) And there are some other decent rap/hip-hop acts that DO NOT promote the stereotypes too....

So, what say you Mr. MicJones.....? :hmmm:

[GoHuge]

I agree with your sentiments. That was an absolutely dead on piece. Good job JW.Yeah Fat Sexy has been spot on with some of his pieces, aside from the Frank Martin deal yesterday. All in all he's been bringing lately. I usually can't stand the "man" but I've got to give him props on his work. That NBA All Star weekend piece was a great read as well.

[Frazod]

Great article. :thumb:

[Eleazar]

There was an awesome rap group back in the 90s called.... Arrested Development

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

[NewChief]

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

What's wrong with AD? They were great back in the day. In fact, I heard Everyday People just the other day at my bro-in-laws and was thinking, "Dang. This still sounds good."

[Mr. Kotter]

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL
:harumph:

I liked 'em, anyway.... :shrug:

What's wrong with AD? They were great back in the day. In fact, I heard Everyday People just the other day at my bro-in-laws and was thinking, "Dang. This still sounds good."

Me too.... :shrug:

Cochise must be a hater, or something....:harumph:


:p

[Micjones]

Not all Rap acts are the same.

Bingo!!!

Now someone ought to tell that to Whitlock.
Wait... He knows as much.

Do you know their lyrics? You got some links....that would support your allegations, or are you engaging in speculation and stereotyping? Or do you know, based on knowing THEIR music?

I'll do you one better. I'm a local Rap act myself and know everyone in that picture personally.

Seriously, I'm only asking where you got this idea, about THESE particular rappers.... :shrug:

Dude... Just take my word for it...or don't.

[Micjones]

I was a little curious about this. I've always seen Whitlock as a hiphop insider. He's always referring to various hip hop artists and the like. The only thing I can make out of it, is that he's trying to delineate between positive and negative hip hop. I actually wish some of this would occur a little more. One can embrace black and hip hop culture without promoting some of the BS that's out there right now, imo. We need more Dead Prez, Roots, J5, Black Star, Gang Starr, and less materialistic, self-destructive idiocy.

There's no shortage of more substantive Rap acts.
They just aren't as commercially viable.

I'm sure Whitlock will never tell you why though.

He'll never tell you that White executives, not misogynistic rappers or the Black consumer determine what we're exposed to through Corporate television and radio.

He'll also never tell you he's in bed with the types of Rap acts he despises. Because he's a hypocrite and that would thwart his futile attempts at White approval.

[Micjones]

Yeah Fat Sexy has been spot on with some of his pieces, aside from the Frank Martin deal yesterday. All in all he's been bringing lately. I usually can't stand the "man" but I've got to give him props on his work. That NBA All Star weekend piece was a great read as well.

Sure if you never bothered to go over the actual details of what happened that weekend.

Whitlock never bothered to look at the numbers.
He just went on some unintelligible rant about Black communities.

Because God knows the Black community is subject to the actions of a select group of Black people who went to Las Vegas for the NBA All-Star Weekend.

Boy I tell ya...

The public education system is failing us.

[Mr. Kotter]

Bingo!!!

Now someone ought to tell that to Whitlock.
Wait... He knows as much.

I'll do you one better. I'm a local Rap act myself and know everyone in that picture personally.

Dude... Just take my word for it...or don't.

That's all I was asking....because you provided the allegation, without anything to back it up. I wasn't sure how you'd come to your conclusions.

Thanks.

[Micjones]

The human-sized hole in Whitlock's God awful diatribe is the fact that Sharpton and Jackson have both been decrying the negative imagery in Rap music for a decade.

AND that Black communities are right there with them and have been for much of Whitlock's adult life.

AND that somehow African-Americans have licensed Imus to use hurtful verbiage by the actions of a select group of Black people who do the same...

AND that somehow Rap music is a representation of ALL BLACKS.

This is irresponsible journalism by a man that really isn't qualified to stand on a soapbox.

I probably shouldn't say this, but what the hell...
People aren't applauding the quality of the piece.
They're applauding the fact that a Black man is reinforcing stereotypes and yelling their own predjudices from the mountaintop...for them.

[Easy 6]

I probably shouldn't say this, but what the hell...
People aren't applauding the quality of the piece.
They're applauding the fact that a Black man is reinforcing stereotypes and yelling their own predjudices from the mountaintop...for them.

I'm sure glad you have all of us ignorant & bigoted white dudes figured out, thats a great trick. Nobodys defending imus...but......

...its really all OUR problem, i'll yell it from my mountaintop.

[Chief Faithful]

It is us. At this time, we are our own worst enemies. We have allowed our youths to buy into a culture (hip hop) that has been perverted, corrupted and overtaken by prison culture. The music, attitude and behavior expressed in this culture is anti-black, anti-education, demeaning, self-destructive, pro-drug dealing and violent.



I really appreciate JWit speaking out and taking a stand. He was very clear that his issue is with a specific negative culture that has crept into the American Black culture. I did not see hip hop as his target so I don't see any conflict with his involvement with the music industry in KC.

My son listens to Christian hip hop and the message is very good. Maybe in time this gangster and prison culture will stop being celebrated and quality lyrics will return to hip hop.

[Hammock Parties]

They have Christian Hip-Hop? ROFL

[NewChief]

My son listens to Christian hip hop and the message is very good. Maybe in time this gangster and prison culture will stop being celebrated and quality lyrics will return to hip hop.

There's plenty of quality hip hop out there that doesn't celebrate prison culture. The problem is in what's popular. I mean, there's death metal out there that celebrates raping and sacrificing virgins, but no one gripes about it becaues it's not that popular.

So the question is: why is the prison culture crap so popular? Is it because it's promoted by the record companies over others (a common conspiracy theory) in an effort to promulgate negativity in the AA community, or is it because that's what the market wants? If it's the latter, why does the market want that shit over other stuff?

[Micjones]

I'm sure glad you have all of us ignorant & bigoted white dudes figured out, thats a great trick. Nobodys defending imus...but......

I never accused EVERYONE of bigotry...
I wouldn't do such a thing. I don't make sweeping generalizations like Jason Whitlock.

I know full well that some of the people who frequent this forum are good-natured people who don't have racial biases...

But I'm also no fool. I know there are more than a few who do...

[Micjones]

There's plenty of quality hip hop out there that doesn't celebrate prison culture. The problem is in what's popular. I mean, there's death metal out there that celebrates raping and sacrificing virgins, but no one gripes about it becaues it's not that popular.

So the question is: why is the prison culture crap so popular? Is it because it's promoted by the record companies over others (a common conspiracy theory) in an effort to promulgate negativity in the AA community, or is it because that's what the market wants? If it's the latter, why does the market want that shit over other stuff?

I can guarantee you that it isn't the latter.
Is that what some of the market wants? Sure...
But there's also a rather large group of people who want something more substantive.

[Easy 6]

I never accused EVERYONE of bigotry...
I wouldn't do such a thing. I don't make sweeping generalizations like Jason Whitlock.



You mean the sweeping generalization of presuming to know the minds & hearts of all those who liked the article???

I'm happy to have a black champion touting my racist views???

Thats pretty 'sweeping'...

[Micjones]

You mean the sweeping generalization of presuming to know the minds & hearts of all those who liked the article???

I'm happy to have a black champion touting my racist views???

Thats pretty 'sweeping'...

Gee, that's a spinjob if I've ever seen one.

Not like pretending to understand the plight or conditions in the Black community you don't live in is presumptuous? Or pretending that there's some truth in the flawed ideologies that Whitlock espouses, but doesn't adhere to?

Rrrriiiiiighhht...

You can twist what I said all you'd like.
Doesn't change a thing.

I know exactly why SOME people are applauding Whitlock.
And it has nothing at all to do with how RIGHT he is.

[NewChief]

I can guarantee you that it isn't the latter.
Is that what some of the market wants? Sure...
But there's also a rather large group of people who want something more substantive.

Yeah, I don't know. The sad part is that the biggest audiences for quite a few of the "conscious" rappers seems to be white like stated in the scene from "Mo Betta Blues" that the Roots sampled to kick off Things Fall Apart.

[Micjones]

Yeah, I don't know. The sad part is that the biggest audiences for quite a few of the "conscious" rappers seems to be white like stated in the scene from "Mo Betta Blues" that the Roots sampled to kick off Things Fall Apart.

The average Rap fan (period) is White.

[Molitoth]

Excellent article Jwhit.

[Chief Faithful]

The human-sized hole in Whitlock's God awful diatribe is the fact that Sharpton and Jackson have both been decrying the negative imagery in Rap music for a decade.

AND that Black communities are right there with them and have been for much of Whitlock's adult life.

AND that somehow African-Americans have licensed Imus to use hurtful verbiage by the actions of a select group of Black people who do the same...

AND that somehow Rap music is a representation of ALL BLACKS.

This is irresponsible journalism by a man that really isn't qualified to stand on a soapbox.

I probably shouldn't say this, but what the hell...
People aren't applauding the quality of the piece.
They're applauding the fact that a Black man is reinforcing stereotypes and yelling their own predjudices from the mountaintop...for them.

You act like this is some black problem that only affects blacks and the rest of the American community doesn't have a stake or play a part. Like it or not JWit is a successful black man who has a forum from which to speak. I appreciate seeing JWit take a stand against the gangster culture and the victim mentality that is so prevalent.

[Mr. Kotter]

...He'll never tell you that White executives, not misogynistic rappers or the Black consumer determine what we're exposed to through Corporate television and radio. ....
That is a cop-out, IMO. :shake:

Just another "blame whitey" for the problems of inner-city and urban America approach....:rolleyes:

I'm sure that the white execs play a role....but the REAL driving force between which rappers "make it," and which ones don't...is the market place. Demand from consumers (yes, there are plenty of white suburban kids listening to it too).....but whenever I go back to the neighborhood....they are almost all listening to the misogynistic and gangsta rap and hip-hop. And, I'll tell you this....it ain't because some white executive is trying to impose it upon them....none of the folks I'm talking about would allow that to happen.

[Micjones]

You act like this is some black problem that only affects blacks and the rest of the American community doesn't have a stake or play a part.

I'm not sure where I said that... Perhaps you could point that out?

Like it or not JWit is a successful black man who has a forum from which to speak.

He's also an irresponsible journalist who is abusing that position.

I appreciate seeing JWit take a stand against the gangster culture and the victim mentality that is so prevalent.

As would I if it were real... It's not.

[Micjones]

That is a cop-out, IMO. :shake:

Sure it is... Because you don't know any better.

Just another "blame whitey" for the problems of inner-city and urban America approach....:rolleyes:

God knows that's always earned African-Americans stripes...

I'm sure that the white execs play a role....but the REAL driving force between which rappers "make it," and which ones don't...is the market place.

Spoken like someone who doesn't know how the music business works.

And, I'll tell you this....it ain't because some white executive is trying to impose it upon them....none of the folks I'm talking about would allow that to happen.

You're right... The music business is run by the consumer...
Which would explain payola scandals all over the place...

[NewChief]

The average Rap fan (period) is White.

Here's an interesting article about the phenom I'm talking about. It also exploes the different %s of people who attend "conscious" underground hiphop shows vs. mainstream. At shows of acts like Zion-I, Aesop Rock the Perceptionists, Talib, etc, it's around 90% white vs. acts like .50 where it's more like 60%.

http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0526,kitwana,65332,22.html/1

[Mr. Kotter]

The human-sized hole in Whitlock's God awful diatribe is the fact that Sharpton and Jackson have both been decrying the negative imagery in Rap music for a decade.

AND that Black communities are right there with them and have been for much of Whitlock's adult life.

AND that somehow African-Americans have licensed Imus to use hurtful verbiage by the actions of a select group of Black people who do the same...

AND that somehow Rap music is a representation of ALL BLACKS.

This is irresponsible journalism by a man that really isn't qualified to stand on a soapbox.

I probably shouldn't say this, but what the hell...
People aren't applauding the quality of the piece.
They're applauding the fact that a Black man is reinforcing stereotypes and yelling their own predjudices from the mountaintop...for them.



The "poor, poor, pitiful me" mentality, eh? Damn, that shit went outta style back in the 90s, man. Nobody buys that garbage anymore, except people unwilling to take responsibility for their own lives and communities.

Sharpton, Jackson, and others in the black community can "decry" the negative imagery of Rap music all they want....when are they, in a very public and coordinated way going to go after the people who are cranking the stuff out? Oh, that's right....they can't do that; they'd be "Uncle Toms" to the bruthas then, eh? :rolleyes:

Imus makes a stupid and boneheaded remark--as a shock jock (surprise, surprise!), and they are calling for his job, for him to be fired?

Until guys like Sharpton and Jackson, and others, level a similar level of discontent with the artists and record companies that are producing the stuff that really is real crap....their criticism of Imus will be hypocritical. They come after whitey, because he's fair game....and rightly so, by the way....but they won't agressively pursue the people MOST RESPONSIBLE for cranking out the crap. Wow. Big shock there.....

:shake:

[Micjones]

Here's an interesting article about the phenom I'm talking about. It also exploes the different %s of people who attend "conscious" underground hiphop shows vs. mainstream. At shows of acts like Zion-I, Aesop Rock the Perceptionists, Talib, etc, it's around 90% white vs. acts like .50 where it's more like 60%.

http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0526,kitwana,65332,22.html/1

I know it all too well...

[vailpass]

I know it all too well...

So you deny that hip-hop is detrimental to the black culture? Keep on ignoring your problems and they will never be fixed.

[Chief Faithful]

There's plenty of quality hip hop out there that doesn't celebrate prison culture. The problem is in what's popular. I mean, there's death metal out there that celebrates raping and sacrificing virgins, but no one gripes about it becaues it's not that popular.

So the question is: why is the prison culture crap so popular? Is it because it's promoted by the record companies over others (a common conspiracy theory) in an effort to promulgate negativity in the AA community, or is it because that's what the market wants? If it's the latter, why does the market want that shit over other stuff?

Record companies market what sells so while there may be a market for quality music there is no doubt an even larger market for the prison culture. The Christian rappers my son listen to, while they have good messages, are few and their sales volumes are nothing compared to the rappers JWit mentions in his article.

Go look at the hip hop billboards and you will see what sells. There is one fact about capitalism it has no prejudice or bias. If there is demand supply will follow. If there is no demand supply will dry up.

My wife has a vending business so she polls her locations to see what people want in the machines. They always tell us they want healthy snacks, but nobody buys it. When we fill the machines with crap that statistics say will sell behold we move the product and make money.

Record companies are not managed by a bunch of idiots they are businessmen trying to make a buck. If the healthy stuff doesn't sell while the crap does then they will fill their distribution channels with crap. There is no prejudice or bias.

[Mr. Kotter]

Sure it is... Because you don't know any better.

God knows that's always earned African-Americans stripes...

Spoken like someone who doesn't know how the music business works.

You're right... The music business is run by the consumer...
Which would explain payola scandals all over the place...I'm sure it's more complicated than....the "market place" (alone) determines what sells; and what succeeds.

However, in the end....if it ain't no good, if people don't like it...it don't sell. On the other hand, if it's mixed in the basement.....if it's pirated....and if the people LIKE it....it will find a way into the market place. No one is gonna turn their back on a money-maker, in the end. It's a much harder route to get there; but it happens every day.

You sure you aren't just making excuses for yourself; projecting your own artistic frustrations, and inability to be as successful as you seem to want to be....given the envy which I suspect underlies your critique of those who have made it? However dispicable the "culture" they are promoting might be..... :hmmm:

[Micjones]

The "poor, poor, pitiful me" mentality, eh? Damn, that shit went outta style back in the 90s, man.

You're big on mythology I take it?

Black people have, since they landed on American shores, overcome insurmountable odds. We've always persevered in spite of. So that's lame and honestly has no application here.

Nobody buys that garbage anymore, except people unwilling to take responsibility for their own lives and communities.

Most of the Black people I know are hard-working, honest people who are working everyday to make a difference.

This ideal that we're all playing "victim" has no legs. None whatsoever.
It's just a way to somehow ground these generalizations we've been saddled with.

We're all shiftless, right?
That's as tired a notion as I've ever come across.

when are they, in a very public and coordinated way going to go after the people who are cranking the stuff out?

Apparently you're asleep at the wheel.
They have... Time and again.

Sharpton spoke out specifically against G-Unit and all of the artists associated with that imprint as recently as 8 days ago...

It would pain you to take a little time out to research the information you're putting across though. It's easier to just buy in to the tired rhetoric of other misinformants.

Imus makes a stupid and boneheaded remark--as a shock jock (surprise, surprise!), and they are calling for his job, for him to be fired?

You could fill a stadium with what you don't know...
Don Imus has facilitated racially insensitive commentary on his program for YEARS. This didn't start with the Rutgers Women's Basketball team.

This is precisely why I can't take you seriously...
You aren't knowledgeable on the related material enough to even comment much less have an opinion.

Until guys like Sharpton and Jackson, and others, level a similar level of discontent with the artists and record companies that are producing the stuff that really is real crap....

Well seeing how I've proven that they have been vocal about the negative imagery in Rap music for 10+ years I'd think you could back off of that at some point, but carry on...

[Micjones]

So you deny that hip-hop is detrimental to the black culture? Keep on ignoring your problems and they will never be fixed.

Hip Hop is a reflection of a larger American culture.
The objectification of women didn't start with Rap music...
You'd be a fool to believe that.

See, this is precisely why the public education system is failing us.

Hedonism, materialism and misogyny are American problems.
That existed long before Rap ever came along.

Wake up.

[NewChief]

So you deny that hip-hop is detrimental to the black culture? Keep on ignoring your problems and they will never be fixed.

That's just a silly statement. That's like saying "Rock and roll is detrimental to white culture" when you're really talking about White Supremacist Death Metal (please don't come after me about metal genres Molitoth or Reaper or whoever is the fanatic on that shit). Hip hop is so freaking broad that to try to lump it all together isn't productive. There is a ton of conscious, positive, and artistic hiphop out there. It's not all guns, drugs, and hos.

[Micjones]

Record companies market what sells so while there may be a market for quality music there is no doubt an even larger market for the prison culture.

That can be argued.

Record companies are not managed by a bunch of idiots they are businessmen trying to make a buck. If the healthy stuff doesn't sell while the crap does then they will fill their distribution channels with crap. There is no prejudice or bias.

You simply don't understand how the record business works.
Record companies are driving demand by saturating the radio with what they believe will sell. I can guarantee you if they used similar tactics to support more substantive artists they'd be just as successful.

But supporting an artist who doesn't perpetuate misogyny or materialism isn't exactly good for business.

Think about it.

[NewChief]

But supporting an artist who doesn't perpetuate misogyny or materialism isn't exactly good for business.

Think about it.

I still can't believe this lyric made it onto mainstream radio:

*****, don't think these record deals gon' feed your seeds
And pay your bills, because they not
MCs get a little bit of love and think they hot
Talkin' 'bout how much money they got; all y'all records sound the same
I'm sick of that fake thug, R&B-rap scenario, all day on the radio
Same scenes in the video, monotonous material
Y'all don't here me though
These record labels slang our tapes like dope
You can be next in line and signed; and still be writing rhymes and broke
You would rather have a Lexus? or justice? a dream? or some substance?
A Beamer? a necklace? or freedom?

[vailpass]

Al Sharpton= racist money grubbing liar. Tawana Brawley anyone? How any black person could let a buffoon like Sharpton or the "Reverend" Jesse Adulterer Jackson represent them I'll never know.

Since Big Al and Jesse are so concerned with the fair treatment of college students when are they planning on returning to North Carolina to apologize to the Duke LaCrosse students the unjustly demonized? Now that all of the charges have been dropped and that stupid stripper has been exposed for the lying ho she is it would seem time for them to put their money where their mouth is and treat the Duke students fairly.

[Micjones]

That's just a silly statement. That's like saying "Rock and roll is detrimental to white culture" when you're really talking about White Supremacist Death Metal (please don't come after me about metal genres Molitoth or Reaper or whoever is the fanatic on that shit). Hip hop is so freaking broad that to try to lump it all together isn't productive. There is a ton of conscious, positive, and artistic hiphop out there. It's not all guns, drugs, and hos.

Thank you...

It's truly idiotic to potshot Rap music without also taking American culture (TV, Film) and everything else into consideration.

[Micjones]

Al Sharpton= racist money grubbing liar. Tawana Brawley anyone? How any black person could let a buffoon like Sharpton or the "Reverend" Jesse Adulterer Jackson represent them I'll never know.

Bill Cosby pledged support for Tawana Brawley.
Is he a racist as well?

[Donger]

I remember hearing that the first "rap" songs released by a major label were performed by Blondie and Adam and the Ants? Is that true?

[NewChief]

I remember hearing that the first "rap" songs released by a major label were performed by Blondie and Adam and the Ants? Is that true?

Other people say that Aerosmith's Walk this Way was. The Grateful Dead also did a "rap" of Fire on the Mountain in 1972. The Beat Poets "rapped" to bongo drums all the time in the 1950s. If you're talking about modern hip hop and how it came about, there's a great documentary out there called Scratch (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0143861/) which does a good job of exploring it.

"Rappers Delight" by Sugarhill Gang is usually considered the first mainstream rap hit, though. It hit in like 1978, I think.

[Donger]

Other people say that Aerosmith's Walk this Way was. The Grateful Dead also did a "rap" of Fire on the Mountain in 1972. The Beat Poets "rapped" to bongo drums all the time in the 1950s. If you're talking about modern hip hop and how it came about, there's a great documentary out there called Scratch (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0143861/) which does a good job of exploring it.

"Rappers Delight" by Sugarhill Gang is usually considered the first mainstream rap hit, though. It hit in like 1978, I think.

Oh. Thanks.

[vailpass]

Bill Cosby pledged support for Tawana Brawley.
Is he a racist as well?

Bill Cosby pledged support because he believed she was a victim based on the bald faced lies of Al Sharpton. could you be any more disingenous?

I don't blame you for trying to deflect the real issue here. If you are a Sharpton supporter you certainly don't want to directly address the Brawley incident or his criminal participation.

[NewChief]

Oh. Thanks.

I just did a google on the Blondie song you're talking about, which is called "Rapture." It was the first song with a rap in it to hit #1.

[Micjones]

I don't blame you for trying to deflect the real issue here. If you are a Sharpton supporter you certainly don't want to directly address the Brawley incident or his criminal participation.

I'm not an apologist for Al Sharpton.
He's made mistakes. That are very well publicized.

If you would though... Tell me what the real issue is...

[vailpass]

I'm not an apologist for Al Sharpton.
He's made mistakes. That are very well publicized.

If you would though... Tell me what the real issue is...

****** please.

[Donger]

I just did a google on the Blondie song you're talking about, which is called "Rapture." It was the first song with a rap in it to hit #1.

Yeah, that's the one. That song causes a rush of blood to specific parts of my body.

[Phobia]

I've watched Whitlock's writing for years. The dude is on all sides of this issue. I don't know if he's writing this because he's passionate about change or if he's making a career move. In either case, he needs to figure out which side of the fence he's on and plant some roots.

[Mr. Kotter]

You're big on mythology I take it?

Black people have, since they landed on American shores, overcome insurmountable odds. We've always persevered in spite of. So that's lame and honestly has no application here.

Most of the Black people I know are hard-working, honest people who are working everyday to make a difference.

This ideal that we're all playing "victim" has no legs. None whatsoever.
It's just a way to somehow ground these generalizations we've been saddled with.

We're all shiftless, right?
That's as tired a notion as I've ever come across.

Apparently you're asleep at the wheel.
They have... Time and again.

Sharpton spoke out specifically against G-Unit and all of the artists associated with that imprint as recently as 8 days ago...

It would pain you to take a little time out to research the information you're putting across though. It's easier to just buy in to the tired rhetoric of other misinformants.

You could fill a stadium with what you don't know...
Don Imus has facilitated raciallly insensitive commentary on his program for YEARS. This didn't start with the Rutgers Women's Basketball team.

This is precisely why I can't take you seriously...
You aren't knowledgeable on the related material enough to even comment much less have an opinion.

Well seeing how I've proven that they have been vocal about the negative imagery in Rap music for 10+ years I'd think you could back off of that at some point, but carry on...
Look, your own opinion and observations in life....count the same as everyone elses. Mine included.

You seem very willing to read a whole lot of extra assumptions and presumptions into what I've said, that just ain't there. If I've touched a nerve, and that's why you are defensive....and resorting to ad hominem characterizations, I guess I can see why.

I have no qualms with your perception of the history of African Americans; they've endured a lot and overcome a lot. And much to be proud of.

However, you got links and articles to document the claims you are making, I'd be happy to look at them and consider them. On the other hand, if you don't see many black leaders invoking the victim card.....often, and usually inappropriately, then you are just blind.

Most African Americans I've ever met....and I grew up in a HUD development, where I was the minority--and where my family still reside, btw....are hardworking and honest. You are right about that. However, if you refuse to recognize and take responsibility for the problems that plague their communities, then it is you that is asleep at the wheel.

If they have been agressively attacking the gangsta rap and hip-hop culture which is responsible for the garbage....they aren't doing it very loudly, or very publicly. Hell, Cosby is the only one that seems to have the courage, or perhaps standing, to do it in a very public way....and you see the hell he catches for daring to do it.

FWIW, I can't stand Imus. I have listened to him enough, to know what you say it true. The bottom-line though is he is a shock jock.....he's been doing it for years, and why everyone is so amped up and surprised about it now, is really the question. He's been criticized and villified, and rightfully so. However, to suggest what he did is any worse than what many artists do every day....well, that's just disingenuous IMO.

All I'm saying is Sharpton, Jackson, and others.....should be MORE public, MORE persistent, MORE open, and MORE harsh....in their criticism of others who are guilty, more or less, of what they seem so bent out of shape over Imus about. Then they might have some credibility on the issue. As it is now, they don't. Especially, given their OWN racist remarks and jokes....that both have had a history of making. Which by the way, I didn't hear many calling for their "firings" over....when they made their racist remarks.

[Chief Faithful]

That can be argued.



You simply don't understand how the record business works.
Record companies are driving demand by saturating the radio with what they believe will sell. I can guarantee you if they used similar tactics to support more substantive artists they'd be just as successful.

But supporting an artist who doesn't perpetuate misogyny or materialism isn't exactly good for business.

Think about it.

You are arguing how the market was created while I just argued the market exists. You seem to be missing everyones point.

The record companies operate the way they do because it works and nobody is putting pressure to stop it. Even you are knocking down JWit for making a stand because he doesn't have a spotless enough background for you.

Maybe it is that same type of criticism that prevents other black leaders from really making a stand. Even Cosby was ridiculed relentlessly for suggesting it starts in the home. Then people started digging up his past to discredit him like you just did to JWit.

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are working hard to take down Imus. Maybe they need to work that hard to attack the degradation of blacks by blacks.

[Micjones]

Bill Cosby pledged support because he believed she was a victim based on the bald faced lies of Al Sharpton. could you be any more disingenous?

Perish the though that you could educate yourself before putting your foot in your mouth...

Cosby pledged his support prior to Sharpton's crusade...

[Micjones]

****** please.

That should all but strip you of what little credibility you had to begin with.

[Mr. Kotter]

That should all but strip you of what little credibility you had to begin with.

Maybe.

But shouldn't that hinge on his intent matter....did he intend to couch a racist intent in the popular idiom; or is he....merely engaging in the sort of jocular incredulity that is conveyed when gangsta rappers use the phrase? And does, vailpass's ethnicity.....have any bearing, on whether or not it would be acceptable....coming from him? Hmmm....so complicated.

:hmmm:

[Donger]

That should all but strip you of what little credibility you had to begin with.

Are you black? If so, does it bother you when white people remark "He's so well-spoken" in reference to a black man?

[Micjones]

You seem very willing to read a whole lot of extra assumptions and presumptions into what I've said, that just ain't there.

No sir. I've responded to only what is spelled out in your commentary.
You're just backtracking...

However, you got links and articles to document the claims you are making, I'd be happy to look at them and consider them. On the other hand, if you don't see many black leaders invoking the victim card.....often, and usually inappropriately, then you are just blind.

I guess I missed the supportive links that came along with your commentary.

But just to indulge you... (http://www.click2houston.com/entertainment/11495572/detail.html?rss=hou&psp=entertainment)

You are right about that. However, if you refuse to recognize and take responsibility for the problems that plague their communities, then it is you that is asleep at the wheel.

I live it on a daily basis.
I know what problems are plaguing Black communities.
I just find it odd that people stand on a soapbox and talk about everything the real issues.

Whitlock won't talk about the system, but he'll potshot rappers every chance he gets.

Hell, Cosby is the only one that seems to have the courage, or perhaps standing, to do it in a very public way....and you see the hell he catches for daring to do it.

Courage?

See what you don't know is that Bill Cosby for 40 years declined to talk about race relations in this country. He always said he was, "just a comedian". Now all of a sudden he's an authority on the matter.

You aren't even thinking for yourself. You're just regurgitating the tired rhetoric of other disaffected and angry Black men.

However, to suggest what he did is any worse than what many artists do every day....well, that's just disingenuous IMO.

That's the lamest excuse one could ever offer.
So somehow if a select group of rappers are misogynistic it's okay that Imus is just as verbally abusive? Even when the Black community and the leaders you vilify also call rappers into question? Sure... I got it ace.

They aren't credible because they're rocking the boat.
And in this country that never bodes well.
Whether it's 9/11 truth-seekers, civil rights activists or war protesters.

We'd rather just walk around with blinders on.

[vailpass]

That should all but strip you of what little credibility you had to begin with.

First you pretend you aren't aware of Sharpton's role in the Brawley case, now you use a flimsy excuse to run and hide. You completely missed the intent of my statement. In fact, what did I say? What did those asteriks mean? Why are they so offensive as to strip me of credibility? If wrong is it a constant wrong or only selective?

I undertand how difficult it must be to defend such undefendable positions as rap lyrics or Al Sharpton but if you stick with it maybe Big Al will cut you in on future reparations.

[Micjones]

Maybe.

But shouldn't that hinge on his intent matter....did he intend to couch a racist intent in the popular idiom; or is he....merely engaging in the sort of jocular incredulity that is conveyed when gangsta rappers use the phrase? And does, vailpass's ethnicity.....have any bearing, on whether or not it would be acceptable....coming from him? Hmmm....so complicated.

:hmmm:

I think you know better, but playing dumb fits you so carry on.

[Micjones]

First you pretend you aren't aware of Sharpton's role in the Brawley case, now you use a flimsy excuse to run and hide. I undertand how difficult it must be to defend such undefendable positions as rap lyrics or Al Sharpton but if you stick with it maybe Big Al will cut you in on future reparations.

I never pretended not to know what transpired.

You're in the dark here VP.
All by your lonesome.

Where have I offered a defense of Rap lyrics?
And tell me why you aren't decrying every other medium that objectifies women?

Hmm... It's curious that you've only had Rap in your crosshairs.

Surely you're smarter than that...

[Micjones]

Are you black? If so, does it bother you when white people remark "He's so well-spoken" in reference to a black man?

Not at all.

Why should it? I've dealt with racism long enough not to have knee-jerk reactions to what people either don't understand or are afraid of.

[Donger]

Not at all.

Why should it? I've dealt with racism long enough not to have knee-jerk reactions to what people either don't understand or are afraid of.

So, you feel pity for a white person that says that?

[vailpass]

I never pretended not to know what transpired.

You're in the dark here VP.
All by your lonesome.

Where have I offered a defense of Rap lyrics?
And tell me why you aren't decrying every other medium that objectifies women?

Hmm... It's curious that you've only had Rap in your crosshairs.

Surely you're smarter than that...

WTF? Is this the part where you invoke the Chewbacca defense?

[Chief Faithful]

Courage?

See what you don't know is that Bill Cosby for 40 years declined to talk about race relations in this country. He always said he was, "just a comedian". Now all of a sudden he's an authority on the matter.

You aren't even thinking for yourself. You're just regurgitating the tired rhetoric of other disaffected and angry Black men.




There it is again; Cosby a successful black man who fought the system to get to the top and all you can do is try and discredit him for using his celebrity to effect positive change.

[Micjones]

I pity anyone who would rather cling to their myopic ideals than find truth.

White, Black, or Asian.

[Phobia]

Not at all.

Why should it? I've dealt with racism long enough not to have knee-jerk reactions to what people either don't understand or are afraid of.

I don't pretend to understand all of it. I'm responsible for my own actions and the actions of my family. We treat everybody fairly. I'm not going to suggest we've reached the point of being color blind but I've definitely grown to a maturity in which I'm not afraid of race issues. I'm happy to discuss them in a frank manner. Sometimes, as you know I'll even throw in some levity because I'm comfortable with race discussions. If somebody is going to label me a racist for my thoughts, I'll wear the label. But I really try not to be. I can honestly say that I think I've beaten the thoughts I've had about minorities when I was a much younger man.

With all that said, I appreciate your willingness to discuss these issues with me. Your vantage-point is very helpful in assisting white folks understand how black folks feel about it. I think the more we talk about it honestly the better each side will understand one another. These things shouldn't be taboo.

[Mr. Kotter]

....I just find it odd that people stand on a soapbox and talk about everything the real issues.

Whitlock won't talk about the system, but he'll potshot rappers every chance he gets.

Courage?

See what you don't know is that Bill Cosby for 40 years declined to talk about race relations in this country. He always said he was, "just a comedian". Now all of a sudden he's an authority on the matter.

You aren't even thinking for yourself. You're just regurgitating the tired rhetoric of other disaffected and angry Black men....
....

They aren't credible because they're rocking the boat.
And in this country that never bodes well.
Whether it's 9/11 truth-seekers, civil rights activists or war protesters.

We'd rather just walk around with blinders on.
So....we've finally arrived at the crux of the argument: which I doubt you are really willing to address....

What ARE the real problems as you see them, then? Seriously.

(If you doubt my sincerity, ask yourself....why would he have patiently engaged me in this, to this point....? The answer is: it's because I'm really, and sincerely interested--despite what you may see as my predisposition.)

As for Cosby, I wish he would have taken a stand sooner; however, age and realizing one's mortality and.....wishing to contribute as he seems to want to do....are powerful motivators, and spur one to action which one may have resisted in their younger days. Think about it.

Rocking the boat? Hell, it's the national past time. Where the heck have you been....you ever watch cable news networks? It's their whole sch tick.

As for blinders....is it really as simple as, "anyone who disagrees with my conspiracy theories of the universe....well, they must be wearing blinders." Wow.

Arrogance and misguided passion are poor substitutes for real action to solve real problems, IMHO. That goes for both sides in this debate, btw.

[Micjones]

There it is again; Cosby a successful black man who fought the system to get to the top and all you can do is try and discredit him for using his celebrity to effect positive change.

So the very person that dodged these issues for 40 years is now an authority who is qualified to speak on the matter?

Why was he so painfully quiet during the Civil Rights Era that saw him making landmark strides on the small screen?

Why wasn't he so vocal at that time?

Because he's disaffected, bitter and removed from youth culture.

He was a racial avoider when it mattered most.
At a time when it might've constructively made a difference.

His words ring hollow for me now...

Especially coming from a painfully average student who was held back multiple times...

[Micjones]

So....we've finally arrived at the crux of the argument: which I doubt you are really willing to address....

Apparently you don't know me then pal.

As for Cosby, I wish he would have taken a stand sooner; however, age and realizing one's mortality and.....wishing to contribute as he seems to want to do....are powerful motivators, and spur one to action which one may have resisted in their younger days. Think about it.

I agree... And had he been more honest about his own failings and done a more broad dissection of the trouble in Black communities I'd support him. His views were myopic and weren't expansive enough.

Rocking the boat? Hell, it's the national past time. Where the heck have you been....you ever watch cable news networks? It's their whole schtick.

Who exactly is truly rocking the boat on Cable television?
Bush's supporters and the slanted media outlets?
You're kidding, right?

As for blinders....is it really as simple as, "anyone who disagrees with my conspiracy theories of the universe....well, they must be wearing blinders." Wow.

That's an oversimplification if I've ever heard one.
We don't have to walk in agreement. That's unnecessary.

[Phobia]

So the very person that dodged these issues for 40 years is now an authority who is qualified to speak on the matter?

Why was he so painfully quiet during the Civil Rights Era that saw him making landmark strides on the small screen?

Why wasn't he so vocal at that time?

Because he's disaffected, bitter and removed from youth culture.

He was a racial avoider when it mattered most.
At a time when it might've constructively made a difference.

His words ring hollow for me now...

Especially coming from a painfully average student who was held back multiple times...

People change. Their priorities shift. You can't hold him responsible for his unwillingness to be a race leader in the prime of his career.

I've been a poor husband in many regards for the first 5 years of my marriage. But I've armed myself with the tools and desire to become a better husband in the next 5. The first 5 years of my marriage won't define my entire marriage, what I've done TODAY does. Live in the now.

[Mr. Kotter]

So the very person that dodged these issues for 40 years is now an authority who is qualified to speak on the matter?

Why was he so painfully quiet during the Civil Rights Era that saw him making landmark strides on the small screen?

Why wasn't he so vocal at that time?

Because he's disaffected, bitter and removed from youth culture.

He was a racial avoider when it mattered most.
At a time when it might've constructively made a difference.

His words ring hollow for me now...

Especially coming from a painfully average student who was held back multiple times...
The man was pragmatic; wanted to make a life for him and his family? And now you want to hold that against him? As for his intellect, apparently you know more about it than I do, I guess....all I do know is the guy seems pretty bright to me. Doesn't he have a PhD? :hmmm:

You have similar thoughts about Shelby Steele, Walter Williams, Hugh Price, or Larry Elders.....I mean, other than "Uncle Tom" stuff...or are they all just sell-outs?

[Mr. Kotter]

Apparently you don't know me then pal.

I agree... And had he been more honest about his own failings and done a more broad dissection of the trouble in Black communities I'd support him. His views were myopic and weren't expansive enough.

Who exactly is truly rocking the boat on Cable television?
Bush's supporters and the slanted media outlets?
You're kidding, right?

That's an oversimplification if I've ever heard one.
We don't have to walk in agreement. That's unnecessary.


Well, then....

what ARE the issues, as you see them?

Seriously.

[Micjones]

People change. Their priorities shift. You can't hold him responsible for his unwillingness to be a race leader in the prime of his career.

You're right... People do change.
But what qualifies him to speak knowledgeably about race relations 40 years later?

I've been a poor husband in many regards for the first 5 years of my marriage. But I've armed myself with the tools and desire to become a better husband in the next 5. The first 5 years of my marriage won't define my entire marriage, what I've done TODAY does. Live in the now.

Think your wife would tolerate 35 more years of such failures?

[Phobia]

You're right... People do change.
But what qualifies him to speak knowledgeably about race relations 40 years later?



Think your wife would tolerate 35 more years of such failures?

What qualifies anybody? Do they have to be somebody with no mistakes or faults? Good luck finding such a person.

I don't know if my wife would tolerate 35 years more - thankfully we'll not have to find out. Don't misunderstand me. I wasn't unfaithful or abusive, I just didn't understand the emotional side of a woman and lacked the patience to respond appropriately. I now have a better understanding because I'm willing to discuss it with her and tolerate her behaviors because I understand them more than I did in the past.

[Micjones]

The man was pragmatic; wanted to make a life for him and his family? And now you want to hold that against him? As for his intellect, apparently you know more about it than I do, I guess....all I do know is the guy seems pretty bright to me. Doesn't he have a PhD? :hmmm:

So he built his career without uttering a mumbling word about the very issues he's so vocal about now that he's a self-made millionaire (many times over)? Sure that seems genuine...

You have similar thoughts about Shelby Steele, Walter Williams, Hugh Price, or Larry Elders.....I mean, other than "Uncle Tom" stuff...or are they all just sell-outs?

I've never called Cosby an Uncle Tom. Not one time.
I actually have rarely ever deployed the term except where applicable.

Could he be? Sure...

Anyone... Be they Shelby Steele or Bill Cosby that criticizes Black communities unfairly (without taking pre-existing inequities into consideration) falls out of favor with me.

There are members of our communities that have successfully done what Cosby tried to do.

We will never ask that accountability be taken from the table...
EVER. We're just looking for a full bodied dissection of what is transpiring in parts of our communities. That's where Cosby failed.

[Micjones]

What qualifies anybody? Do they have to be somebody with no mistakes or faults? Good luck finding such a person.

I'm not suggesting that Cosby should be without fault.
I'm merely saying he should be a little less vocal when he shunned the opportunity to speak on these issues for 4 decades.

I just didn't understand the emotional side of a woman and lacked the patience to respond appropriately.

And this my dear Phobia is almost EXACTLY what the problem is with those who are racially insensitive...

I now have a better understanding because I'm willing to discuss it with her and tolerate her behaviors because I understand them more than I did in the past.

And if the same energies were applied in improving race relations we would see similar successes.

[Baby Lee]

Maybe Michelle needs to see Jason article ?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/columns/story?columnist=voepel_mechelle&id=2830562
Somehow, we've gotten to a place in our society where so-called "adults" think it's OK to publicly insult a group of young people whose sole transgression was they appeared on national television and apparently didn't meet some "appearance" standard these men had.
. . .
Bottom line: Nobody should say things like this. There are no excuses. It's not funny in any possible context. This wasn't satire, not even a lame attempt. It's not acceptable. It's not defensible. People who say things like this about other people should feel shame to the very core of their soul.
:Lin:
Way to overstate things wildly.
Botched as the joke was, it's still funnier than Dane Cook

I guess if I call Paris Hilton a vapid cooze, I should feel shame to the very core of my soul as well? . . .

[KC Kings]

They have Christian Hip-Hop? ROFL

A friend of mine is a local Christian rapper. You can listen to some of his stuff here...
http://www.myspace.com/topspinone

I can't argue Cosby's participation in fighting racial injustice over the last 40 years, but Cosby has never protrayed himself in a negative way. If all black kids grew up emulating Bill Cosby do you think that the black community would be better, worse, or the same as it is today?
He was educated, professional and well manored, and he acted as such. He only got upset when the parents and children start to imitate those who act like uneducated gangster thugs. Kids acting dumb is one thing, but when the parents start to act ganster and endorse their kids acting like that you have a real problem.

The rap and hip hop artist act and perform the way they do to make money, period. A drug dealer doesn't care who gets hurt by the drugs he sells, and rappers don't care about the people that end up getting hurt by emulating them.

I liked Tech Nine back when he would just rap. But he had a mohawk, didn't look ghetto enough and wasn't selling any albums. His last album, imo, was crap because all he did was try to convince everybody how hard core ghetto he was and he was wasn't some KC version of Nelly.

[Baby Lee]

And this my dear Phobia is almost EXACTLY what the problem is with those who are racially insensitive...
Like a little racial/cultural/intersexual INSENSITIVITY, absent any whiff of malice, is inherently a PROBLEM.

[KC Kings]

I never pretended not to know what transpired.

You're in the dark here VP.
All by your lonesome.

Where have I offered a defense of Rap lyrics?
And tell me why you aren't decrying every other medium that objectifies women?

Hmm... It's curious that you've only had Rap in your crosshairs.

Surely you're smarter than that...

Because thousands of white children aren't listening to poor music and emulating them to the point that it is negatively affecting our society. As soon as they do, a stance will be made against it. Columbine kids and other freaks start emulating Goth entertainers and we make rules against dressing goth at schools. Parents didn't emulate the entertainers and teach our kids to act that way either.


I am in no way saying the USA is perfect, or that this problem exist only with blacks, but tell me this.
Why do black schools have the lowest test scores?
Why do black neighborhoods have the highest crime rates and lowest property values? Is it all the white mans fault? Does white flight happen only because we have prejudice preconceived notions of these things?

[Micjones]

I can't argue Cosby's participation in fighting racial injustice over the last 40 years, but Cosby has never protrayed himself in a negative way.

As if adultery and his less than stellar academic performance in the primaries can't be considered negative...

I liked Tech Nine back when he would just rap. But he had a mohawk, didn't look ghetto enough and wasn't selling any albums. His last album, imo, was crap because all he did was try to convince everybody how hard core ghetto he was and he was wasn't some KC version of Nelly.

I believe you're referring to his "Come Gangsta" monologue...
And it's much deeper than you've given it credit for.

[Mr. Kotter]

...I've never called Cosby an Uncle Tom. Not one time. I actually have rarely ever deployed the term except where applicable.

Could he be? Sure...

Anyone... Be they Shelby Steele or Bill Cosby that criticizes Black communities unfairly (without taking pre-existing inequities into consideration) falls out of favor with me.

There are members of our communities that have successfully done what Cosby tried to do.

We will never ask that accountability be taken from the table...
EVER. We're just looking for a full bodied dissection of what is transpiring in parts of our communities. That's where Cosby failed.


I've appreciated the thoughtfulness of your responses thus far....your track reminds me of one of our old regulars, who seems to have disappeared. But your track is much more civil.

Thanks. :thumb:



I'm serious, though:

What ARE the issues, in your mind then?

[Chief Faithful]

So the very person that dodged these issues for 40 years is now an authority who is qualified to speak on the matter?

Why was he so painfully quiet during the Civil Rights Era that saw him making landmark strides on the small screen?

Why wasn't he so vocal at that time?

Because he's disaffected, bitter and removed from youth culture.

He was a racial avoider when it mattered most.
At a time when it might've constructively made a difference.

His words ring hollow for me now...

Especially coming from a painfully average student who was held back multiple times...

Did you know why he produced the Cosby show in the 80's? It was his way of addressing the wrong sterotypes that were being presented about black families. The show won many awards for its effective message that was sent out to black America.

Do you remember Fat Albert? He produced that show because of the lack of positive black programming. That makes 40 years of positive black programming from a man who had a passion to serve the black community utilizing his talents his way.

So now, after he spent a life time serving the black community you criticise him because he did not do it the way you wanted? He didn't just talk the talk he walked the walk and now you feel he is not a good representative to the black community?

What are you feelings about Clarence Thomas and Condolesa Rice? They are constantly being criticised eventhough they are terrific role models.

[Micjones]

Cosby should absolutely be commended for the producing more positive images on the small screen, but that doesn't exactly make him qualified to speak authoritatively on race matters.

Especially since he never had his entire professional career.

[Mr. Kotter]

ah-ha.....I knew things were beginning to sound too familiar.

:)

Welcome back, Hamas.

This less arrogant version is more becoming. Seriously. :clap:

[Chief Faithful]

They have Christian Hip-Hop? ROFL

It is really good stuff. I'm not into rap, but I do listen to it with my son and he explains what is being said. :) The messages are very good and delivered in a way he can understand. It also taught me that there is nothing wrong with the genre the problem is lack of social responsibility being shown by those producing most of the music.

[FAX]

I don't understand that last point, Mr. Micjones.

It sounds like you're saying that, if someone doesn't speak on a subject for a significant portion of their career, they aren't qualified to ever discuss it?

FAX

[Baby Lee]

ah-ha.....I knew things were beginning to sound too familiar.

:)

Welcome back, Hamas.

This less arrogant version is more becoming. Seriously. :clap:
R.U. Shttnmi??

[Micjones]

Kotter I could go on for the next 7 days about the real problems plaguing Black communities.

That's more than I care to go into because it involves so much dialogue.

I'm already exhausted from this conversation today.

That's far too involved to try to enter into through a message board.

BUT, with that said...

African-Americans have a responsibility ALL THEIR OWN despite how history has effected them. We cannot feed the machine or the system that has ensnared us from the beginning. We must proactively raise our children responsibly and be the change we want to see...

I will never EVER remove accountability from that charter.

We have to be responsible...

[Donger]

Cosby should absolutely be commended for the producing more positive images on the small screen, but that doesn't exactly make him qualified to speak authoritatively on race matters.

Especially since he never had his entire professional career.

Are you qualified to speak authoritatively on race matters?

[NewChief]

Welcome back, Hamas.

This less arrogant version is more becoming. Seriously. :clap:

Uhhh. This guy is a black rapper from Kansas City. If I remember correctly, Hamas was a white dude in some other area finishing up his MA in English Lit and about to start heading for his doctorate.

When you talked about it being an old poster, I thought you were referring to Nubian Nut.

[Micjones]

ah-ha.....I knew things were beginning to sound too familiar.

:)

Welcome back, Hamas.

This less arrogant version is more becoming. Seriously. :clap:

I'm not sure who Hamas is, but I assure you were are two different people.

[Micjones]

Are you qualified to speak authoritatively on race matters?

I sure am.

I have never piggybacked off of the luxuries afforded to me by the struggle that preceded me without lending myself to that struggle when I could've constructively made a difference.

I have never backed away from my public responsibility to be a knowledgeable figure on the matter.

So yes... If you must know.

[Chief Faithful]

Cosby should absolutely be commended for the producing more positive images on the small screen, but that doesn't exactly make him qualified to speak authoritatively on race matters.

Especially since he never had his entire professional career.

Sure he did, he used his talents to speak of the issues using his forum. He bucked the system more than once putting his own money on the line to do it. He put those positive images on the screen as a way to address race issues.

That is why I now commend JWit, he is using his talent as an opinion columnist to speak out on race issues.

We would be better off if more people in the black community followed their lead and used their position and talents to present positive images to the black community. Maybe in time the black hip hop producers can understand Cosby's message communicated over a life time and follow his lead. We would all be better off.

[Baby Lee]

Kotter I could go on for the next 7 days about the real problems plaguing Black communities.

That's more than I care to go into because it involves so much dialogue.

I'm already exhausted from this conversation today.

That's far too involved to try to enter into through a message board.

BUT, with that said...

African-Americans have a responsibility ALL THEIR OWN despite how history has effected them. We cannot feed the machine or the system that has ensnared us from the beginning. We must proactively raise our children responsibly and be the change we want to see...

I will never EVER remove accountability from that charter.

We have to be responsible...
That's not Hamas, that's John KERRY, baby!!!

I have all sorts of energy to tell you how you're wrong, but I need to rest before I school you on how I'm right.

ROFL ROFL.

[Micjones]

I don't understand that last point, Mr. Micjones.

It sounds like you're saying that, if someone doesn't speak on a subject for a significant portion of their career, they aren't qualified to ever discuss it?

FAX

Cosby had an opportunity to offer the very same sentiments 40 years ago when he could've effected change and helped in thwarting much of what he despises currently. He opted out of that responsibility and chose rather to merely enjoy the spoils of those who were toiling and owning that responsibility. Now that he's a self-made millionaire he's ready to take his place on the podium and lecture...

Again, how is that genuine?

[Mr. Kotter]

I'm not sure who Hamas is, but I assure you were are two different people.Okay, fair enough then. Some of the arguments you are making are....classic Hamas.

So, are you going to indulge me or not? If not, that's fine I guess; but I really am curious:


What do you see as THE issues, then?


...that Whitlock, Cosby, and the rest of us aren't seeing?

Seriously. :hmmm:

EDIT: Sorry I missed your other post....I'll have to check back later.

Thanks for the effort though. I do appreciate it. And I'll look it over, and see if we can find any consensus.

[Micjones]

That's not Hamas, that's John KERRY, baby!!!

I have all sorts of energy to tell you how you're wrong, but I need to rest before I school you on how I'm right.

ROFL ROFL.

Looking forward to it.

I suggest you pack your lunch though.
You'll be in for a fight.

[Donger]

I sure am.

I have never piggybacked off of the luxuries afforded to me by the struggle that preceded me without lending myself to that struggle when I could've constructively made a difference.

I have never backed away from my public responsibility to be a knowledgeable figure on the matter.

So yes... If you must know.

Just so we're clear, you're of the opinion that black people who don't participate in the "struggle" cannot be qualified to speak authoritatively on race matters?

That's your criteria?

[Baby Lee]

Looking forward to it.

I suggest you pack your lunch though.
You'll be in for a fight.
Why would I fight you? Got a little Irish inya?

[FAX]

Cosby had an opportunity to offer the very same sentiments 40 years ago when he could've effected change and helped in thwarting much of what he despises currently. He opted out of that responsibility and chose rather to merely enjoy the spoils of those who were toiling and owning that responsibility. Now that he's a self-made millionaire he's ready to take his place on the podium and lecture...

Again, how is that genuine?

I think you may be visualizing the class 3/4 empty there, Mr. Micjones.

Is it not better to come to the light than to live forever in darkness?

FAX

[Micjones]

Sure he did, he used his talents to speak of the issues using his forum. He bucked the system more than once putting his own money on the line to do it. He put those positive images on the screen as a way to address race issues.

Then that should be his platform to this very day.
It isn't though... He's now ready to accept the responsibility that was afforded to him 40 years ago. Unfortunately, he's a day late and a dollar short.

That is why I now commend JWit, he is using his talent as an opinion columnist to speak out on race issues.

His behavior as even a journalist is deplorable.
He's in no position to sit on that soapbox either.

The image he portrays as a sports writer and hack editorialist is quite a bit different from what we know of him personally, but I'll spare you that information...You've bought his act...Hook, line and sinker...

We would be better off if more people in the black community followed their lead and used their position and talents to present positive images to the black community. Maybe in time the black hip hop producers can understand Cosby's message communicated over a life time and follow his lead. We would all be better off.

He's the last example I'll ever follow.

[Micjones]

Just so we're clear, you're of the opinion that black people who don't participate in the "struggle" cannot be qualified to speak authoritatively on race matters?

If television is his platform... Amen.

Unfortunately the ship has long sailed for his opportunity to speak on race matters. Because he was defiant in his refusal to own that responsibility for the past 40 years.

So, read that like you need to...

[Mr. Kotter]

That's not Hamas, that's John KERRY, baby!!!

I have all sorts of energy to tell you how you're wrong, but I need to rest before I school you on how I'm right.

ROFL ROFL.

I'm willing to be patient....

MicJones, please...come back when you have some time. It sounds as if you've done quite a lot of thinking about this. Seriously. Surely you've got some material written up some place in a file....you could just copy and paste, and then edit it to make your points....

I really am interested in hearing your view though; again, I'm dead serious.


What are the problems and issues in America's African American communities, as you see them?


If you need to rest up, and revisit this later....or another day. I'd still be eager to see your view.

[Donger]

So, if I'm following this correctly, you think Cosby should have used his position as a national comic 40 years ago to promote understanding of blacks and black culture?

If so, have you considered the possibility that if he had, he would have had a career at all?

[Micjones]

I think you may be visualizing the class 3/4 empty there, Mr. Micjones.

Is it not better to come to the light than to live forever in darkness?

FAX

If he'd truly come to the light I'd respect him.
But he gave us a myopic view of the trouble in Black communities.
There simply was no context.

His entire diatribe was "bootstrap" based, but is inherently flawed.

Sure... There's nothing wrong with higher academic achievement, better parenting and more diligent work in Corporate America in the abstract, but...

All the hard work in the world won't undo some of the conditions that are feeding into the problem in American society. Yet he took no time at all to shed light on that fact.

[Micjones]

So, if I'm following this correctly, you think Cosby should have used his position as a national comic 40 years ago to promote understanding of blacks and black culture?

Absolutely. After all...
He benefitted from the very struggle he refused to lend himself to.
And in many ways benefitted from it much more than his comedic counterparts. He had a responsibility to do so. And he defaulted.

If so, have you considered the possibility that if he had, he would have had a career at all?

You're knocking at the door now...

He valued his personal artistic career more than he did the overall resolution of the conditions in Black communities that he now despises...
And please understand... That's fine and well, but now that he has enjoyed the spoils others have toiled for without ever having owned his responsibility within that struggle... He should continue in that 40-year long reticence.

And that, sir, is NOT AT ALL genuine.

So again, he is painfully underqualified to be an authority on the matter at this point.

[Chief Faithful]

The image he portrays as a sports writer and hack editorialist is quite a bit different from what we know of him personally, but I'll spare you that information...You've bought his act...Hook, line and sinker...



We agree on one thing, JWit IMO is a hack editorialist. As a sports columnist he is terrible. This was actually the first column I can remember from JWit that I enjoyed reading.

As for his 'act' I imagine I could believe anything you had to say, but I would hope you speak from first hand knowledge.

[Mr. Kotter]

...All the hard work in the world won't undo some of the conditions that are feeding into the problem in American society. Yet he took no time at all to shed light on that fact.
Surely, then....you will be willing to shed some light on these conditions and problems, in a way that Cosby failed to? You won't allow a comparable opportunity....although, with a much smaller audience, to slip away, will you?

Isn't that a reasonable request? I assure you I'm 100% sincere.

[Donger]

Absolutely. After all...
He benefitted from the very struggle he refused to lend himself to.
And in many ways more than his comedic counterparts. He had a responsibility to do so. And he defaulted.



You're knocking at the door now...

He valued his personal artistic career more than he did the overall resolution of the conditions in Black communities that he now despises...
And please understand... That's fine and well, but now that he has enjoyed the spoils others have toiled for without ever having owned his responsibility within that struggle... He should continue in that 40-year long reticence.

And that, sir, is NOT AT ALL genuine.

So again, he is painfully underqualified to be an authority on the matter at this point.


Thank you. Do you think that even his non-engagement in the struggle has helped the struggle at all? Merely by his being a black entertainer, making black people more accepted, perhaps?

How do you feel about Sammy Davis Jr., BTW?

[Micjones]

Absolutely.

But you understand that the gravity of the issue makes it virtually impossible to expound upon with this format...

[Baby Lee]

He valued his personal artistic career more than he did the overall resolution of the conditions in Black communities that he now despises...
And please understand... That's fine and well, but now that he has enjoyed the spoils others have toiled for without ever having owned his responsibility within that struggle... He should continue in that 40-year long reticence.

And that, sir, is NOT AT ALL genuine.

So again, he is painfully underqualified to be an authority on the matter at this point.
Whether the messenger is genuine or qualified has eff-all to do with whether the message is right or not.

[Micjones]

We agree on one thing, JWit IMO is a hack editorialist. As a sports columnist he is terrible. This was actually the first column I can remember from JWit that I enjoyed reading.

As for his 'act' I imagine I could believe anything you had to say, but I would hope you speak from first hand knowledge.

Just look at his personal career as a sportswriter...

He's fallen out of favor time and again for his antics.
This is a man who lobbed slurs a Patriots QB from a press box (I see why he's so dismissive of Imus' acts)...
Was removed and permanently banned from ESPN.
Has been all but blacklisted on sports radio in Kansas City...

Isn't all of that enough to call his credibility into question?
Aside from other more personal incidences that have yet to be mentioned in this forum?

[Micjones]

Whether the messenger is genuine or qualified has eff-all to do with whether the message is right or not.

The message itself is flawed so back to the drawing board you go...

[FAX]

If he'd truly come to the light I'd respect him.
But he gave us a myopic view of the trouble in Black communities.
There simply was no context.

His entire diatribe was "bootstrap" based, but is inherently flawed.

Sure... There's nothing wrong with higher academic achievement, better parenting and more diligent work in Corporate America in the abstract, but...

All the hard work in the world won't undo some of the conditions that are feeding into the problem in American society. Yet he took no time at all to shed light on that fact.

Although you've done a magnificent job of disguising it, I'm beginning to see your point, Mr. Micjones.

But surely, you would not argue that "self-help" is not the best form of assistance? Or that laws, social support, or government programs can, in fact, change a person. As a thoughtful individual, I imagine you would agree that personal development occurs from the inside out beginning with early childhood influences and, for those with self-awareness, continuing throughout life.

If your position is that there are external means whereby the generational problems suffered by large segments of the African American population can be corrected, that would be news to me.

FAX

[Baby Lee]

Just look at his personal career as a sportswriter...

He's fallen out of favor time and again for his antics.
This is a man who lobbed slurs a Patriots QB from a press box (I see why he's so dismissive of Imus' acts)...
Was removed and permanently banned from ESPN.
Has been all but blacklisted on sports radio in Kansas City...

Isn't all of that enough to call his credibility into question?
Aside from other more personal incidences that have yet to be mentioned in this forum?
Certainly not in the general terms you've couched them.
Seriously, falling out of favor for antics? Could that be more general?
Why not just say 'people have on occasion have disagreed with him?'
Has Jess fallen out of favor for his antics? Al? Clinton? Bush? W.Bush? Teddy Roosevelt? Jack Nicholson? Henry VIII? Jesus Christ? Og the caveman?
oh, and I supported his position underlying his removal at ESPN.

[Mr. Kotter]

Absolutely.

But you understand that the gravity of the issue makes it virtually impossible to expound upon with this format...
Try us....we understand the limits; give it your best shot.

I know this is a football discussion board; but we have some thinkers here.

[Baby Lee]

The message itself is flawed so back to the drawing board you go...
Oh, sorry. I demurr, your rhetoric is unimpeachible.


Oh, but if your could indulge me one last question sir. . . Why?

[Baby Lee]

Although you've done a magnificent job of disguising it, I'm beginning to see your point, Mr. Micjones.

But surely, you would not argue that "self-help" is not the best form of assistance? Or that laws, social support, or government programs can, in fact, change a person. As a thoughtful individual, I imagine you would agree that personal development occurs from the inside out beginning with early childhood influences and, for those with self-awareness, continuing throughout life.

If your position is that there are external means whereby the generational problems suffered by large segments of the African American population can be corrected, that would be news to me.

FAX
No, it appears that his position is that there are external factors that can never be corrected.

[FAX]

No, it appears that his position is that there are external factors that can never be corrected.

Well, if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao, you ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow

FAX

[Micjones]

But surely, you would not argue that "self-help" is not the best form of assistance?

Best form of assistance concerning the history of Blacks in American society? Eh... The easiest to apply perhaps. There are other factors that must also be addressed though.

I'd call it a necessary cog in that wheel, but it certainly can't stand alone.

Or that laws, social support, or government programs can, in fact, change a person.

They cannot.

BUT the two are not exclusive of one another.

[Micjones]

No, it appears that his position is that there are external factors that can never be corrected.

Thank you for speaking on my behalf, but you don't do a very good job of it so I'll ask you to defer...

There are external factors that need correction, but there are also internal factors that must be addressed.

[Baby Lee]

Thank you for speaking on my behalf, but you don't do a very good job of it so I'll ask you to defer...

There are external factors that need correction, but there are also internal factors that must be addressed.
I'm at least I'm putting a modicum of effort into it. All you've said on your own behalf is that everyone has it wrong for reasons you cannot impart.

Geez, reacharound us a trust exercise or two before asking us to take that at face value.

Distinguish the two;

All the hard work in the world won't undo some of the conditions that are feeding into the problem in American society.

there are external factors that can never be corrected.

[Micjones]

Distinguish the two;

All the hard work in the world won't undo some of the conditions that are feeding into the problem in American society.

there are external factors that can never be corrected.

That's a rather sloppy interpretation. Nice try though.

There are external factors that can never be corrected by hard work alone...

[FAX]

Thank you for speaking on my behalf, but you don't do a very good job of it so I'll ask you to defer...

There are external factors that need correction, but there are also internal factors that must be addressed.

I think we can agree on that, Mr. Micjones. As a general statement, at least.

Now, what we need are specifics. How, in God's Holy name are we to assist microsocieties significantly impaired by generations of mistreatment, broken families, mutual disrespect, and immorality?

One must have ears to hear.

FAX

[Baby Lee]

I think we can agree on that, Mr. Micjones. As a general statement, at least.

Now, what we need are specifics. How, in God's Holy name are we to assist microsocieties significantly impaired by generations of mistreatment, broken families, mutual disrespect, and immorality?

One must have ears to hear.

FAX
Well, first off, you need to have started 40 years ago, or you're not doing it right.

[Micjones]

I guess if you have nothing to contribute to the general discourse you patronize it with bad humor...

Carry on.

FAX, this discussion is far too big to have with such impersonal means.

[FAX]

Well, first off, you need to have started 40 years ago, or you're not doing it right.

So, we need a time machine. Got it.

Mr. Bob Dole, where is that damned time machine?

FAX

[FAX]

... FAX, this discussion is far too big to have with such impersonal means.

Well, I suppose I have to agree. I wish you well in your campaign though, Mr. Micjones.

As one of our famous American birds, Jonathan Livingston Seagull, said, "The only true law is that which leads to freedom. There is no other."

FAX

[Baby Lee]

I guess if you have nothing to contribute to the general discourse you patronize it with bad humor...

Carry on.

FAX, this discussion is far too big to have with such impersonal means.
When it comes to this type of discourse, it ain't my first rodeo.
Though it is my first rodeo where the bronco is such a hobbled shetland pony.

You can't have a discourse where your sole position is, everyone else is wrong, but I can't tell you why. You just can't.

[Micjones]

Thank you.

I'm working everyday to improve the conditions for those in my own community and in America.

I don't pretend to have all of the answers, but...
God is just and faithful. So as long as I'm alive...
There is hope.

[Micjones]

You can't have a discourse where your sole position is, everyone else is wrong, but I can't tell you why. You just can't.

I wouldn't bother if I thought that we couldn't break any ground and that no one else was either capable or willing to find truth.

I haven't made any claims as to who is currently holding the monopoly on truth, but rather where I disagree and why.

[Easy 6]

Micjones, what are the external factors that should be corrected, yet, no amount of hard work can fix them???

You continually refer to them, but wont put'em on the table. This IS a limited medium, but if you are as loquacious as you seem to be...surely you can sum up some quick points...

[Chief Faithful]

MicJ,

Just curious; I understand you don't respect JWit and Cosby as spokesmen for the black community, but

Do you agree with JWits sentiments?

Do you feel Cosby has the right message for the black family?

[Baby Lee]

I wouldn't bother if I thought that we couldn't break any ground and that no one else was either capable or willing to find truth.

I haven't made any claims as to who is currently holding the monopoly on truth, but rather where I disagree and why.
And your why is 'they're phonies.'

Sounds to me, more than us being heathens who are incapable of seeing truth, you know you are incapable of making arguments that withstand scrutiny.

Sorry you have so little faith in yourself, . . . or, I guess, us.

[Micjones]

Micjones, what are the external factors that should be corrected, yet, no amount of hard work can fix them???

No amount of hard work ALONE.
Context is key. I qualified that statement.

You continually refer to them, but wont put'em on the table. This IS a limited medium, but if you are as loquacious as you seem to be...surely you can sum up some quick points...

There is imbalance in the public education system.
Gap-closing academic gains have all but been thwarted by the resegregation of the public education system.

That's a fundamental part of the problem.

Cosby said so himself about 30 years ago...
He argued that institutional racism was failing the poorest Black students. Yet he fails to recognize the resegregation of schools today that are, in effect, just as problematic.

[Chief Faithful]

Just look at his personal career as a sportswriter...

He's fallen out of favor time and again for his antics.
This is a man who lobbed slurs a Patriots QB from a press box (I see why he's so dismissive of Imus' acts)...
Was removed and permanently banned from ESPN.
Has been all but blacklisted on sports radio in Kansas City...

Isn't all of that enough to call his credibility into question?
Aside from other more personal incidences that have yet to be mentioned in this forum?

I do appreciate that you set high standards on character and behavior. And, as I've stated, I am no fan of JWit and I wish he would shuffle off to Denver to haunt their fans for a while. But, given the standard you have set in your opinion does Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson pass on that same level of scrutiny? Are they good spokesmen?

[Micjones]

Sounds to me, more than us being heathens who are incapable of seeing truth, you know you are incapable of making arguments that withstand scrutiny.

You're on auto-pilot.
Any public discourse of this kind is open to scrutiny.

I have no trouble at all with being both questioned and/or scrutinized.
I guess you've missed that part of today's discussion...

[Micjones]

I do appreciate that you set high standards on character and behavior. And, as I've stated, I am no fan of JWit and I wish he would shuffle off to Denver to haunt their fans for a while. But, given the standard you have set in your opinion does Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson pass on that same level of scrutiny? Are they good spokesmen?

There are certainly elements of their past that are rather questionable.
They are absolutely worthy of every bit of scrutiny I've lobbed at Cosby.

No man is without flaws.

The difference is, I think they've taken a much more detailed approach to addressing the issues Black communities are faced with.

They've owned their responsibility within the struggle that Cosby has shunned 11 years longer than I've been alive.

[ClevelandChief]

Kill Whitey

[Micjones]

That's some powerful stuff.

[Baby Lee]

That's some powerful stuff.
I guess if you have nothing to contribute to the general discourse you patronize it with bad humor...

Carry on.

[Easy 6]

Kill Whitey

Dark & lonely on a summer night,
watchdog barkin'...DO HE BITE???

KILL MY LANDLORD, KILL MY LANDLORD

Slip in the window...break his neck,
then his house i start to wreck,
got no reason...what the heck...

KILL MY LANDLORD, KILL MY LANDLORD

[FAX]

Malcolm X had a great quote that I'll have to paraphrase, but it went something like this; "Be courteous, respectful, and obey the law. But, if someone lays a hand on you, send him to the cemetery."

And, I don't think he meant "with flowers". X wouldn't have stood for this nappy-headed ho deal. On the other hand, his religion wouldn't have allowed women to play basketball, either. It's sort of a give and take situation.

FAX

[stevieray]

. Because he's a hypocrite and that would thwart his futile attempts at White approval.


white approval? this comment appears racist..

and do me a favor ...leave Bill Cosby out of your BS, he and select others have done more for race relations than any rap artist ever could.

[Donger]

Absolutely.

But you understand that the gravity of the issue makes it virtually impossible to expound upon with this format...

Is that in response to my #148 post?

[FAX]

Here's another great Malcolm X quote, "Sitting at the table doesn't make you a diner, unless you eat some of what's on that plate. Being born here in America doesn't make you an American."

I think what he was alluding to is that the American Dream is restricted to those with access. Now we have learned that access gets you enough debt to sink the Bismark II and financial aid to help you afford sleeping pills.

FAX

[elvomito]

a black man told me jesse jackson helped kill MLKjr. i want you to write a song about that, mr. smith

[Micjones]

I guess if you have nothing to contribute to the general discourse you patronize it with bad humor...

Carry on.

I suppose if you missed a day's worth of commentary that would work...

[Micjones]

white approval? this comment appears racist..

I'll ask you to do a little homework on the term first...
Then come to your own conclusions.

and do me a favor ...leave Bill Cosby out of your BS, he and select others have done more for race relations than any rap artist ever could.

This can be argued.

If I'm looking for pioneer and trailblazers in race relations Cosby isn't exactly high on my list either...

[stevieray]

I'll ask you to do a little homework on the term first...
Then come to your own conclusions.



This can be argued.

If I'm looking for pioneer and trailblazers in race relations Cosby isn't exactly high on my list either...

really? let's debate it then....I say he is...I say he's put out a much more positve representation of African Americans than a dying genre of music that is wrapped in anger...

[FAX]

After just arriving in the US, we had several of the new Sudanese Lost Boys to our home to begin the process of acclimation. One of the boys stepped to the front window and stared outside for a long time. I noticed him and became concerned that he was suffering from relocation syndrome. When I walked up and asked him if he was okay, he said, "Even the trees are cared for here."

FAX

[Baby Lee]

Imus off MSNBC permanently, per CBS radio.

More fodder for the King of all Media!!

ROFL ROFL

vote for Sanjaya.


I'm suddenly reminded of the Asian Al Sharpton dude on Maher's old Politically Incorrect who was lambasting people for making fun of Asians. Sarah Silverman said something snarky and Asian Al lashed out at her.

Sarah's reply?

Whatcha gonna do, pee-pee in my Coke??

Now that's funny.

[FAX]

Imus off MSNBC permanently, per CBS radio.

More fodder for the King of all Media!!

ROFL ROFL

vote for Sanjaya.

That cuts it. I'm never watching MSNBC again. Ever.

I hope Fox News picks him up.

FAX

[burt]

I suppose if you missed a day's worth of commentary that would work...

I have read this entire thread and have yet to see you proffer anything of merit. Your comments are predominantly highbrow, back handed comments about others lack of intelligence and Cosby not speaking up for 40 years. I don't know Mr. Cosby's history as well ad you, but the back handed comments are repugnant. As is your evidence.

Your evidence on Black Leaders stand against negative rap....i.e. the use of negative language..."Hos" which would be one of the least offensive is as follows...

http://www.click2houston.com/entertainment/11495572/detail.html?rss=hou&psp=entertainment

This is an article about Sharpton standing against rap violence.....not rap itself. I look forward to a link where Jesse Jackson of Sharpton actually stand against rap, itself

Speaking of Jesse Jackson....don't I recall him having a baby outside his marriage....and HE is a better front man for black issues than Bill Cosby? Because Cosby didn't speak up in the correct time frame to suit YOU!!! PLEASE!!!

Now this is the part where you tell me I am too stupid to understand, with eloquence........so I won't notice that you are rude.

[Baby Lee]

That cuts it. I'm never watching MSNBC again. Ever.

I hope Fox News picks him up.

FAX
So you're the one who watched it to begin with.

[FAX]

So you're the one who watched it to begin with.

Almost every morning. I like Imus and he's not on the radio here.

Imus for president.

FAX

[Micjones]

I have read this entire thread and have yet to see you proffer anything of merit.

Opinions are like assholes... Everybody has one.

Your evidence on Black Leaders stand against negative rap....i.e. the use of negative language..."Hos" which would be one of the least offensive is as follows...

I have nothing at all to prove. Do your homework.
And you'll find more evidence than you're willing to ingest.

Al Sharpton's chastisement of similarly Black rappers isn't newsworthy.
So I wouldn't expect you to know that he has a long history of speaking out against misogynistic Rap music.

This is an article about Sharpton standing against rap violence.....not rap itself.

God knows Rap itself is inherently evil.
Sheesh...

Speaking of Jesse Jackson....don't I recall him having a baby outside his marriage....and HE is a better front man for black issues than Bill Cosby?

Who was also adulterous? Classic.

Now this is the part where you tell me I am too stupid to understand, with eloquence........so I won't notice that you are rude.

Other CP posters would disagree...

[burt]

I'll ask you to do a little homework on the term first...

Are you all that numb that you don't know..

So much for reading between the lines...

Don't be so easily fooled...Dude... Just take my word for it...or don't....

Boy I tell ya...The public education system is failing us...........

I know full well that some of the people who frequent this forum are good-natured people who don't have racial biases...But I'm also no fool. I know there are more than a few who do...

Gee, that's a spinjob if I've ever seen one.

You can twist what I said all you'd like.

Sure it is... Because you don't know any better.

Spoken like someone who doesn't know how the music business works.I know it all too well...

You're big on mythology I take it?

Apparently you're asleep at the wheel.

It would pain you to take a little time out to research the information you're putting across though. It's easier to just buy in to the tired rhetoric of other misinformants.

You could fill a stadium with what you don't know...

This is precisely why I can't take you seriously...


You aren't knowledgeable on the related material enough to even comment much less have an opinion.


See, this is precisely why the public education system is failing us.

You simply don't understand how the record business works.

It's truly idiotic

Perish the though that you could educate yourself before putting your foot in your mouth...That should all but strip you of what little credibility you had to begin with.


You sir are an ass. Your words are so negative that even IF they had merit, I couldn't find it through all your asshattery.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Cliff notes for those not wanting to read 190+ posts:

Kotter asks MicJones eleventy million times to eleaborate on what he feels the issue really is.

MicJones dodges the question everytime, claiming none of us can possibly understand.

Kotter realizes he's never gonna get an answer, and passes the torch to FAX and Baby Lee.

Still waiting for an answer......

[FAX]

He's sort of like Mr. Redrum_69 after a thesaurus transplant.

FAX

[Baby Lee]

I have nothing at all to prove. Do your homework.
And you'll find more evidence than you're willing to ingest.
You haven't said a thing of substance, but it's on us to figure out what you think, THEN go out and assemble support for it?

Big Brass Ones on this one.

[OnTheWarpath15]

He's sort of like Mr. Redrum_69 after a thesaurus transplant.

FAX


ROFL ROFL

[burt]

God knows Rap itself is inherently evil.
Sheesh...

Don't let your self important drivel get in the way. The point is Rap isn't evil, a significant amount of the LYRICS are evil.....asshat.

[Coach]

Nice article Whitlock.

[burt]

He's sort of like Mr. Redrum_69 after a thesaurus transplant.

FAX

absofrigginlutly!!! ROFL ROFL

A clone made out of ANYTHING bad from Redrum, Hammas, and Donger...

[kstater]

So I went to work this morning and there were three posts in this thread. Came home after and there are over 180 posts. For a Whitlock article, who would've thunk it.

[64 Chief]

Imus is an irrelevant wasted arrogant jerk. Who cares what he says about anything. He should be ignored so his sponsers leave him. Whitlock is on the money about the important issues that should be getting attention.

[BIG_DADDY]

Decent take by JW.

[DomerNKC]

Don't let your self important drivel get in the way. The point is Rap isn't evil, a significant amount of the LYRICS are evil.....asshat.Rap is evil.

[Extra Point]

Sharpton and Jackson can start their own radio shows. That way, I can lose all respect for them that I have, and they're on the same plane as Dr. Loser, Rush Windbag, Don Blame-Us, Coward Stern, et al.

[Donger]

absofrigginlutly!!! ROFL ROFL

A clone made out of ANYTHING bad from Redrum, Hammas, and Donger...

That's somewhat insulting.

[burt]

I think he considered you to be the brains part of that operation, if that helps at all. Hama and Redrum....well, they would be supplying other aspects of his character.

kinda....the Donger portion would be the vocabulary. :)

[Donger]

kinda....the Donger portion would be the vocabulary. :)

Are you serious? I don't think of myself as having an extensive vocabulary.

[burt]

Are you serious? I don't think of myself as having an extensive vocabulary.

I have wanted to be able to say this for quite some time.....you are wrong.

[FAX]

We can settle this easily.

How many words do you know, Mr. Donger?

FAX

[Donger]

I have wanted to be able to say this for quite some time.....you are wrong.

You can say that anytime, of course. That doesn't mean you are accurate.

[burt]

You can say that anytime, of course. That doesn't mean you are accurate.

well, I am this time!!!

[greg63]

I actually agree with Fatlock ; I feel so dirty.

[ARROW2]

Nice job Jason..........

BTW, last night my wife and I had this discussion, she is outraged over this. For those who do not know, I have biracial grandkids, so she is hot headed over it while I am laid back about it. I told her the very same stuff last night as we where watch the Glenn Beck show. Then he came on and stated the same stuff.....

Somebody needs to change the culture of the music that most black people listen to . It's double standards to listen to it from their own race and then cry about it as racial slurs if somebody else says it ?

Nothing like having your cake and eat it too .......






I don't give a F about Imus...but you would be surprised at how many white kids listen to the rap you talk about............It all starts at home...I am tired of people blaming music and television for the actions of the nation's youth.

[ARROW2]

The human-sized hole in Whitlock's God awful diatribe is the fact that Sharpton and Jackson have both been decrying the negative imagery in Rap music for a decade.

AND that Black communities are right there with them and have been for much of Whitlock's adult life.

AND that somehow African-Americans have licensed Imus to use hurtful verbiage by the actions of a select group of Black people who do the same...

AND that somehow Rap music is a representation of ALL BLACKS.

This is irresponsible journalism by a man that really isn't qualified to stand on a soapbox.

I probably shouldn't say this, but what the hell...
People aren't applauding the quality of the piece.
They're applauding the fact that a Black man is reinforcing stereotypes and yelling their own predjudices from the mountaintop...for them.








BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mecca]

This was posted on another board I read today.......here are some of the comments it got.......

I still fail to see how he is irrelevant when he regularly has some of the most powerful people in the country on his show (like McCain & Lieberman). Hell, one presidential candidate even announced his run on the Imus show.

And why can't "black leaders" do two things?




*white person uses a racial slur*

DON'T WORRY ABOUT THAT, THERE'S A GANGSTA CULTURE!
------------------------------------------------------------------

keeps it real. Real dumb.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Jason Whitlock can suck dick.

You can just as easily find non negative hip hop as you can find negative hip hop. Just as you can find action movies instead of family movies. Once again, his retarded argument is that "Hey, we shouldn't care if a person makes a racist comments because other people make racist comments."

Really. Could you see lawyer saying, "Well, your honor, its not like my client is the only person to **** a 8 year old..." and it working?

I get tired of well off black people (think Bill Cosby and his dumb ass rant) pretending to still have a complete understanding of the generations after them.

What the hell was the Rutger coach supposed to do? Say nothing. Her players, through NO fault of their own have been thrust into a big headline catching story. Of course she should take the time to defend the players that parents have trusted her to take care of. But no. She should have talked about 50 Cent apparently.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

**** a "race card"... has "hip hop" become the new shield for racist white folks?

*whitey says something racist*

*...gets called on it*

*response: huh, huh, well what about 50 Cent, Ma$e, and Young MC??????

How many Blacks are the ultimate gatekeepers and have definitive, final say? **** out of here with this "well black people can say this" shit... 3 6 Mafia cant say shit unless somebody white allows them to say it, which makes the condemnation of hip hop amusing. Go after the whites in charge who are making a point of exploiting the culture. You guys got nerve, I'll give you that. Wont even start on the lame in this thread that invoked slavery as a way to SUPPORT Imus. SMH.

Thank god your women are so slutty and love black dick. Keeps us from slappin' the shit out of ya'll on a regular basis.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

That's apparently what some people think, even though me personally I consider that last comment racially driven but it's ok for a black guy to make those comments apparently.

[ARROW2]

Al Sharpton= racist money grubbing liar. Tawana Brawley anyone? How any black person could let a buffoon like Sharpton or the "Reverend" Jesse Adulterer Jackson represent them I'll never know.

Since Big Al and Jesse are so concerned with the fair treatment of college students when are they planning on returning to North Carolina to apologize to the Duke LaCrosse students the unjustly demonized? Now that all of the charges have been dropped and that stupid stripper has been exposed for the lying ho she is it would seem time for them to put their money where their mouth is and treat the Duke students fairly.



Off topic, but don't you think Kobe Bryant deserves a break from people still saying "rapist" when that ho had DNA from everybody on this board and the state of Colorado up in her the day after, and none from Kobe?

[|Zach|]

Funny how this has been a hot topic on the planet with most of these these points covered- and then Bamm it is in his column. Jwit needs to kick out a few bucks to the Planet for giving him all of his stories lately.I don't remember anyone taking the angle he did with his column. Aside from that...who gives a shit.

I have to hear this garbage during football season as well. Like there is anyway for columnists to have magical takes that nobody on Chiefs Planet has ever talked about. :hmmm:

[nychief]

whitlock is a moron.

[Mr. Kotter]

whitlock is a moron.

Well, in this case....the blind squirrel found a helluva stash of nuts.

Or are you gonna enlighten us as to how he is wrong, since apparently Micjones isn't gonna take us up on it....

:hmmm:

[el borracho]

How can anyone blame the problems in black societies on rap music? White kids listen to the same rap but don't suffer the ill effects. If the music were really to blame wouldn't it affect its entire audience? Perhaps instead of debating the music people should identify whatever it is that makes white kids immune and try to replicate it in the black communities.

[Phobia]

How can anyone blame the problems in black societies on rap music? White kids listen to the same rap but don't suffer the ill effects. If the music were really to blame wouldn't it affect its entire audience? Perhaps instead of debating the music people should identify whatever it is that makes white kids immune and try to replicate it in the black communities.
White kids are well spoken.

[SPchief]

How can anyone blame the problems in black societies on rap music? White kids listen to the same rap but don't suffer the ill effects. If the music were really to blame wouldn't it affect its entire audience? Perhaps instead of debating the music people should identify whatever it is that makes white kids immune and try to replicate it in the black communities.


:eek:

[el borracho]

White kids are well spoken.
Being educated and well-spoken would be a good place to start if one wants to be taken seriously. It is interesting that most immigrant families lose their accents by the third generation while black people have created ebonics.

[Mr. Kotter]

How can anyone blame the problems in black societies on rap music? White kids listen to the same rap but don't suffer the ill effects. If the music were really to blame wouldn't it affect its entire audience? Perhaps instead of debating the music people should identify whatever it is that makes white kids immune and try to replicate it in the black communities.Maybe we need to change the discussion from "black kids," to "poor kids" to have this make more sense....because if you want to talk about the impact of hip-hop and rap on POOR kids, it's pretty easy to see a connection if only you look:


The difference is this....average POOR kids:

-- have a higher incidence of poverty--Duh. And an inability to provide for basic needs.
-- have a much higher incidence of single parent families
-- have a significantly more "unsupervised" time (on average) than middle class white kids.
-- have easier access to lower cost illicit drugs
-- have been exposed to gangs, crime, and violence
-- are at higher risk of teen age pregnancy
-- are at higher risk of juvenile delinquency

The problem, of course, is....blacks represent a disproportionate share of the poor in this country. :(

A culture and music that reinforces, and even glorifies those things....to impressionable young children tends to compound the problem.

On the other hand, middle class white kids who have their needs taken care of, generally; who have two parents at home, and less "unsupervised free time" on average than poor kids; and who aren't exposed to the realities of urban life....and the youthful temptations, at least on the same level, as poor kids....well, THEY have a significant advantage, and more of a support network, to resist the temptations--and avoid the mistakes that poor kids live...nearly every single day.

[Phobia]

Being educated and well-spoken would be a good place to start if one wants to be taken seriously. It is interesting that most immigrant families lose their accents by the third generation while black people have created ebonics.

That's an interesting point. Certainly blacks have created their own dialect. I don't know why they've done that. I do think that your average immigrant family wants to blend into the American culture (which has traditionally been white dominated). I don't think your average black wants that at all. They want their own identity and choose various outlets for that. For some that means embracing a thug/gangsta personna. For others that means speaking an urban dialect. A vast majority of blacks wish to stay as far from the "Uncle Tom" label as possible. Personally, I think the term is thrown around far too often. If a black man experiences professional success, shuns urban dialect, and chooses not to become a race advacate for blacks he gets the label. Why? Because he's risen above poverty and made a better life for himself? Why? Why hasn't Eddie Murphy's name been mentioned in this thread? He's the highest paid comedian of all, white or black. Why hasn't he championed race relations? Is he an Uncle Tom as well?

These are things I don't understand about the black community.

[Mr. Kotter]

That's an interesting point. Certainly blacks have created their own dialect. I don't know why they've done that. I do think that your average immigrant family wants to blend into the American culture (which has traditionally been white dominated). I don't think your average black wants that at all. They want their own identity and choose various outlets for that. For some that means embracing a thug/gangsta personna. For others that means speaking an urban dialect. A vast majority of blacks wish to stay as far from the "Uncle Tom" label as possible. Personally, I think the term is thrown around far too often. If a black man experiences professional success, shuns urban dialect, and chooses not to become a race advacate for blacks he gets the label. Why? Because he's risen above poverty and made a better life for himself? Why? Why hasn't Eddie Murphy's name been mentioned in this thread? He's the highest paid comedian of all, white or black. Why hasn't he championed race relations? Is he an Uncle Tom as well?

These are things I don't understand about the black community.

At the risk of being declared a suck up....

You absolutely nailed it, Phil. :clap:

[Mr. Kotter]

Bump to see if Micjones will finally offer to share his insights with us today...

How about it, Micjones??? :shrug:

[greg63]

Really. Could you see lawyer saying, "Well, your honor, its not like my client is the only person to **** a 8 year old..." and it working?



Major apples and oranges here.

[Mr. Kotter]

Major apples and oranges here.

Agreed.

[OnTheWarpath15]

At the risk of being declared a suck up....

You absolutely nailed it, Phil. :clap:

Call me a suck up all you want.

That was a hanging curve, and Phil knocked it into the cheap seats.

Well said, Phil.


:clap: :clap:

[Baby Lee]

Maybe in the interest of healing, we could get the Tenn and Rutgers girls to stage a production of 'Good and Bad Hair' from School Daze.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Maybe in the interest of healing, we could get the Tenn and Rutgers girls to stage a production of 'Good and Bad Hair' from School Daze.

Holy f. BL that's outstanding!!!

[Brock]

Maybe in the interest of healing, we could get the Tenn and Rutgers girls to stage a production of 'Good and Bad Hair' from School Daze.

Nappy's all right with me!

[Baby Lee]

The Doggfather hath spoken

"It's a completely different scenario. (Rappers) are not talking about no collegiate basketball girls who have made it to the next level in education and sports. We're talking about hoes that's in the 'hood that ain't doing shit, that's trying to get a ***** for his money. These are two separate things. First of all, we ain't no old-ass white men that sit up on MSNBC going hard on black girls. We are rappers that have these songs coming from our minds and our souls that are relevant to what we feel. I will not let them mutha****as say we are in the same league as him. Kick him off the air forever."

[Brock]

The Doggfather hath spoken

I'm surprised he could put down the bong long enough to string that together.

[kcxiv]

I'm surprised he could put down the bong long enough to string that together.
HE actually claims he doesnt smoke weed anymore. He said he quit that a while back when he got into doing little league sports with his son.

[Brock]

HE actually claims he doesnt smoke weed anymore. He said he quit that a while back when he got into doing little league sports with his son.

Oh. Well, that explains why he was arrested last month.

[Chief Faithful]

The Doggfather hath spoken
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Calvin Broaddus
"It's a completely different scenario. (Rappers) are not talking about no collegiate basketball girls who have made it to the next level in education and sports. We're talking about hoes that's in the 'hood that ain't doing shit, that's trying to get a ***** for his money. These are two separate things. First of all, we ain't no old-ass white men that sit up on MSNBC going hard on black girls. We are rappers that have these songs coming from our minds and our souls that are relevant to what we feel. I will not let them mutha****as say we are in the same league as him. Kick him off the air forever."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Translated by Michelle Malkin: "Only black rappers can call women hos and bitches. Only black rappers can call black people nigg*s. Because it's coming from their minds and souls, *&^&)#*&@!!!!"

[OnTheWarpath15]

Granted, it was a year ago, but I don't remember Neal Boortz's comments about a SITTING MEMBER of CONGRESS stirring this much debate.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, and for those of you who don't know the story.....

http://mediamatters.org/items/200603310005

[kcxiv]

Oh. Well, that explains why he was arrested last month.
I dont know, i dont watch the news like at all. So i didnt hear about it. I really dont care. i seen him on one of them late night talk shows and thats where he talked about him quitting.

[Baby Lee]

Granted, it was a year ago, but I don't remember Neal Boortz's comments about a SITTING MEMBER of CONGRESS stirring this much debate.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, and for those of you who don't know the story.....

http://mediamatters.org/items/200603310005
Imus misspoke on a slow news week.

[FAX]

Granted, it was a year ago, but I don't remember Neal Boortz's comments about a SITTING MEMBER of CONGRESS stirring this much debate.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, and for those of you who don't know the story.....

http://mediamatters.org/items/200603310005

It's likely that, had Imus made the same comment about the Black Women's Caucus, there would have been little or no outcry, Mr. OnTheWarpath58, as they are public figures.

The Rutgers BB team are not public figures, per se. They are private individuals who didn't sign up for no-holds-barred, public criticism by seeking office or fame. Once they go pro, however, it's every nappy-headed ho for herself.

FAX

[Phobia]

Jason was just on MSNBC and did a pretty good job, I thought.

He absolutely trashed Jackson and Sharpton, questioning why black leadership has a so-called life appointment to leadership akin to the Supreme Court. He said blacks need to vote them out because they're an embarrassment and went on to say it's the media's fault that they weild so much power.

[Hammock Parties]

Here is the issue:

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3143/imagend2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Mr. Kotter]

Jason was just on MSNBC and did a pretty good job, I thought.

He absolutely trashed Jackson and Sharpton, questioning why black leadership has a so-called life appointment to leadership akin to the Supreme Court. He said blacks need to vote them out because they're an embarrassment and went on to say it's the media's fault that they weild so much power.

It feels weird to root for Jason....but damn, he's on a roll. :clap: