Michael Smith on Trent/Phins trade

[BigRock]

Michael Smith of ESPN was on NFL Live and said, this is almost an exact quote, "the Dolphins are going to have to give up more than a 2nd day draft pick if they expect to get Trent Green".

He reported exactly what a lot of us have been thinking, that there's no way KC is getting rid of Trent without the kind of compensation they deserve for giving Miami a starting QB. He said KC has enough cap room that they don't have to cut him, so the Dolphins can forget that. He also said he could see this lasting until the draft, or even after it, which he didn't really explain.

But the way he was telling Miami to cough up the draft picks, you'd think he was reading verbatim from posts here. It was awesome.

:thumb:

[Direckshun]

I think I heard that too earlier in the day.

Thumbs up to the ChiefsPlanet community for having sharp football minds. This isn't exactly a gathering of your typical internet idiots, although it can seem that way sometimes.

[chiefbowe82]

I think I heard that too earlier in the day.

Thumbs up to the ChiefsPlanet community for having sharp football minds. This isn't exactly a gathering of your typical internet idiots, although it can seem that way sometimes.
I remember people naggine at carl and telling him not to be greedy he's making the organization look bad by getting a respectable deal for green.
--KC_CHIEFS_06--

[chiefbowe82]

I remember people nagging at carl, and telling him not to be greedy he's making the organization look bad by getting a respectable deal for green.
--KC_CHIEFS_06--

[Direckshun]

I remember people naggine at carl and telling him not to be greedy he's making the organization look bad by getting a respectable deal for green.
--KC_CHIEFS_06--
"2nd pick!?!?!? HE'S TEH MADMAN!!!!1!!1one!!"

[the Talking Can]

fark a first day pick would be sweet...just what a rebuilding team needs...

dare to dream, laz...dare to dream

[Micjones]

Getting a #2 would be dreamy.

We could snag an Eric Wright and a Steve Smith in the Second.

[stevieray]

The guy was only second to Manning for a reason..good to see that his worth remains intact.

Carl is playing this one to the T.

[FAX]

Amen, Mr. stevieray. I like the logic.

You want a pro-bowl, starting QB? We have one.

FAX

[Alphaman]

The way for this deal to work out so the Chiefs get a first day equivalent and Miami to keep all of their first day picks (4 of them) is for the Chiefs and Dolphins to swap 2nd round picks and Miami send KC a 4th.

Or

They swap 2nds and 3rds and Miami sends KC two 6ths.

[Valiant]

I think it should be conditional 08 draft pick..

3rd for just signing him..
2nd if he starts more then 4 games
1st if he starts more then 10 games...

[Halfcan]

Michael Smith of ESPN was on NFL Live and said, this is almost an exact quote, "the Dolphins are going to have to give up more than a 2nd day draft pick if they expect to get Trent Green".

He reported exactly what a lot of us have been thinking, that there's no way KC is getting rid of Trent without the kind of compensation they deserve for giving Miami a starting QB. He said KC has enough cap room that they don't have to cut him, so the Dolphins can forget that. He also said he could see this lasting until the draft, or even after it, which he didn't really explain.

But the way he was telling Miami to cough up the draft picks, you'd think he was reading verbatim from posts here. It was awesome.

:thumb:

You mean he was reading Halfcan's post. I have been saying all along (one of the few) that Trent is worth a 2nd.

Others don't feelm that way, so I guess time will tell who is right.

[Knob]

I think I heard that too earlier in the day.

Thumbs up to the ChiefsPlanet community for having sharp football minds. This isn't exactly a gathering of your typical internet idiots, although it can seem that way sometimes.



NUK, NUK, NUK.

[Wilson8]

Does not sound like they are really talking according to Adam Schefter

GOING GREEN
http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10131440

Despite reports that a Trent Green-to-Miami trade is imminent, it is no more imminent than it was last week or the week before.


It looks like it will take some draft-deadline pressure for the Trent Green trade to go through.
The Dolphins and Chiefs haven't had a single discussion in close to two weeks, according to team officials. Green's agent, Jim Steiner, however, has spoken to each team and is hoping to facilitate a trade to Miami. He now is aiming to make a major effort to push through the trade for his client.

But not much has changed since the initial reports that Green likely was to end up in Miami. Green still is not expected to return to Kansas City. He still wants to play for Miami, which is the front runner to land his services. Kansas City still wants as much compensation as it can get in return. And once Green lands in Miami, then it is likely that Dolphins quarterback Daunte Culpepper would depart.

It's unlikely a deal will occur this week, but the closer the draft comes, the more the chances increase that Green will be wearing aqua.

[Mecca]

If you put those standards on it and Miami is having a bad year they'll purposely not play him at the end of the year......

If this hasn't happened when the draft starts, start praying Cleveland takes Quinn if they don't he'll drop to the Dolphins then they have all the leverage in a trade.

[boogblaster]

Ive said a 2nd all along or keep him for a back-up or need be if hes ready a starter...

[Mecca]

Keeping a QB that doesn't want to be a backup.......then making him a backup while cutting his pay probably isn't the best thing for team chemistry.

[Mecca]

Let me expound on what I said I don't believe Trent Green will stay here as a backup with a paycut I believe he'd force the Chiefs hand to cut him before he did that......

We should be happy with anything for a 37 year old QB that just had an injury...

[BigRock]

Here's the latest little blurb from the Star...

http://www.kansascity.com/160/story/73140.html

Peterson, Miami discuss Green deal

By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

Efforts by the Chiefs to trade quarterback Trent Green picked up over the weekend when president/general manager Carl Peterson spoke with Miami general manager Randy Mueller.

Green wants to be sent to Miami, where he is close with head coach Cam Cameron and quarterbacks coach Terry Shea. Green has agreed to terms of a contract with the Dolphins.

The remaining obstacle is the terms of the trade.

“I told Randy that they made a great trade with New England,” Peterson said, referring to a recent deal that sent Wes Welker to the Patriots. “They got for what we would consider a third wide receiver and kick-return specialist second- and seventh-round draft picks. I told him that I think a starting quarterback is worth that.

“Now we need to work toward something that’s fair. We’ll talk again this week. Whether it gets done before the draft or not, I can’t say. It may happen this week, or it may not happen until after the draft.”

The Dolphins held a weekend minicamp with only the unproven Cleo Lemon and Gibran Hamdan at quarterback. Miami also has Daunte Culpepper, who is injured.

I love, LOVE, that he brought up Wes Welker. There's no way Welker was worth a 2nd and 7th, and it's great to see Carl using it to our advantage. Hopefully he brought up their kicker trade, too. Stupid Phins.

GET 'EM, CARL

[CHENZ A!]

I hope if a deal for a first day pick isn't made, that Trent will be OUR starter.

[BigMeatballDave]

I hope if a deal for a first day pick isn't made, that Trent will be OUR starter.No way. I respect what Green did for this team, but we need to see what Croyle has. This team needs to get young.

[Mecca]

Here's the latest little blurb from the Star...

http://www.kansascity.com/160/story/73140.html



I love, LOVE, that he brought up Wes Welker. There's no way Welker was worth a 2nd and 7th, and it's great to see Carl using it to our advantage. Hopefully he brought up their kicker trade, too. Stupid Phins.

GET 'EM, CARL

It might seem smart to say it till the Miami GM goes......."he's not 37 with an injury history, and just because we got a good deal from them doesn't mean you get to rip us off"

[orange]

"It may happen this week, or it may not happen until after the draft.”

That doesn't sound like a first-day draft pick to me - not in this year's draft, anyway.

[Edit] Actually, it sounds like Peterson reads ChiefsPlanet and he just does this stuff to torture you guys and laugh at the responses.

[CHENZ A!]

No way. I respect what Green did for this team, but we need to see what Croyle has. This team needs to get young.

We need to get young, yes, but we need to get good young players. To me the QB position is one where you're probably better off going with a savvy vet QB instead of a guy with no experience and a long history of injuries. To me, the only way that you can draft a QB and expect him to be a difference maker is if you're drafting in the top half of the first round.

[Mecca]

We need to get young, yes, but we need to get good young players. To me the QB position is one where you're probably better off going with a savvy vet QB instead of a guy with no experience and a long history of injuries. To me, the only way that you can draft a QB and expect him to be a difference maker is if you're drafting in the top half of the first round.

Did you see Green last year? Without a stellar Oline the guy is crap, it was always that way and always will be that way.

I think the Chiefs should be thrilled a team wants to give them anything for the guy considering his age and all of his injuries. 9 out of 10 times a QB that gets in Green's spot is cut and you get nothing......the Chiefs are gonna **** around and get nothing if they keep trying to make Miami look stupid.....

[CHENZ A!]

Did you see Green last year? Without a stellar Oline the guy is crap, it was always that way and always will be that way.

I think the Chiefs should be thrilled a team wants to give them anything for the guy considering his age and all of his injuries. 9 out of 10 times a QB that gets in Green's spot is cut and you get nothing......the Chiefs are gonna **** around and get nothing if they keep trying to make Miami look stupid.....

sorry, but if I had to choose between Trent and either Huard or Croyle, I'd take Trent. I'm not convinced that Croyle is tough enough, and I am convinced that Huard is really not all that good. I just don't like our options at QB at all this year, but I think Trent gives us the best chance to win some games.

[Mecca]

sorry, but if I had to choose between Trent and either Huard or Croyle, I'd take Trent. I'm not convinced that Croyle is tough enough, and I am convinced that Huard is really not all that good. I just don't like our options at QB at all this year, but I think Trent gives us the best chance to win some games.

They're basically all the same now, the Chiefs don't have a good QB situation with or without Green. The only difference is you know Green is 37 and declining rapidly and he no longer has a line that allows him to hold the ball forever......which he does anyway and is why he gets obliterated........

[jth1331]

Heck, if the Dolphins offered a 3rd, the Chiefs should take it and run away with it. Personally, I think the Dolphins are stupid to be pursuing Trent. They have a horrible OL and Trent's 37 and coming off a severe injury.
If there isn't a trade worked out, the Chiefs should just cut him. Gotta give Croyle and Huard a stronger look and that won't happen if Green is around. Plus, I doubt the Chiefs are going anywhere this year, so the whole argument about getting a better chance to win ball games is moot. You gotta play Croyle some point.

[Tribal Warfare]

HIf there isn't a trade worked out, the Chiefs should just cut him.


Yeah it's real intelligent in releasing an all-pro QB without getting significant value for him.

[jth1331]

Yeah it's real intelligent in releasing a former all-pro QB without getting significant value for him.

I didn't see Trent in the Pro Bowl last year. Heck, his numbers are on the decline, he isn't going to any more Pro Bowls.
2 years ago and you might've had something, but not anymore. Plus, you gotta go with a youth movement IMO.
And in the end, I think the Chiefs will just take a 3rd or 4th for him to get something for him, maybe a conditional 2008 pick.

[Tribal Warfare]

I he isn't going to any more Pro Bowls..


How the F*CK do you know that? Yeah, leave helm to St. Huard and a Croyle who's still developing

[Mecca]

The difference in 34 and 37 is huge in the NFL.....it's why Trent doesn't have much value these days.

[Tribal Warfare]

The difference in 34 and 37 is huge in the NFL.....it's why Trent doesn't have much value these days.


not necessarily When KC obtained Montana he was in his late 30's also

[Chief_in_Commander]

I really hope that carl gets SOMETHING for Green. He isn't worth much more than a 3rd or 4th imo but a starting veteran qb should be worth something. I don't think the draft should hurt Trent's value much either. I still think they'll want a vet to start the year off with and probly work a young guy in. I don't think they would want even Quinn to just come in and take over.

[Mecca]

not necessarily When KC obtained Montana he was in his late 30's also

There is a difference in a HOF 4 time Bowl winner.........and Trent Green.

[ct]

If you put those standards on it and Miami is having a bad year they'll purposely not play him at the end of the year......

If this hasn't happened when the draft starts, start praying Cleveland takes Quinn if they don't he'll drop to the Dolphins then they have all the leverage in a trade.

Quinn will not get past Minnesota, unless DE Gaines Adams is still sitting there @7. Adams on the board @7, in my opinion, is even more unlikely than Quinn sitting there @7. Both Zona and Washington are looking for D-Line upgrades, pass-rushers especially.

[Tribal Warfare]

There is a difference in a HOF 4 time Bowl winner.........and Trent Green.



You are under estimating Green bigtime. The man is still pro-bowl caliber, and a natural leader.

[ct]

Another thing, this ESPN dude says a 2nd day pick isn't enough, that does NOT mean it then has to be a 1st day pick. A Day2 pick this year, and another Day2 conditional in '08 would be quite fair IMO.

Carl is doing the right thing to bring up Wes Welker, but the reality is that kid is in his mid-20s, Trent is far past that. The starting QB vs 3rd WR/KR specialist comparison loses validity with the huge age disparity. But if Carl pulls this off and gets a Day1 pick, I'll be grinnin ear2ear.

[htismaqe]

Conditional picks are the way to go. They give us a 5th that becomes a 3rd if he starts all 16 games and becomes a 2nd if he goes to the PB.

[BigChiefFan]

Conditional picks are the way to go. They give us a 5th that becomes a 3rd if he starts all 16 games and becomes a 2nd if he goes to the PB.
The problem with that is, if they are struggling, they could just bench him the final game and screw us over in the process. We need their 3rd or 4th rounder and move on.

[htismaqe]

The problem with that is, if they are struggling, they could just bench him the final game and screw us over in the process. We need their 3rd or 4th rounder and move on.

Teams take that risk all the time.

We're not gonna get a 3rd. Period.

[afchiefs]

I wouldn't take less than a 3rd rd pick for trent ( or equivalent). All this talk of trading trent so Brodie can start. I hope a trade can get done but I say if a trade can't get done sign trent for what the phins were going to pay him and let the winner be the starter. If trent is so old and on such a decline then Brodie should have no problem, if he can't then he is not our QBOTF. Trent has had 2 bad seasons, the first and last year. Are we sure last year wasn't all due to his injury, we might be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[stevieray]

The difference in 34 and 37 is huge in the NFL.....it's why Trent doesn't have much value these days.

pfffft...ya, the league is teeming with QB's.

how old are you? I'm 45 and I'll lay money down that I can throw a football farther than you can.

[Brock]

There is a difference in a HOF 4 time Bowl winner.........and Trent Green.

There is also a difference between Trent Green......and Joey Harrington.

[Mecca]

Look, this isn't Madden where you can trade your old player who still has a nice rating for high draft picks. Players do not get better when they are 37 years old. You can not trade your player based on what he did 2 years ago unless he's 25 and even then what you get isn't alot.

The NFL is a league of what have you done lately and lately Trent has sucked and got his brain scrambled. He at best has 2 years left.....why would you trade a first day pick for a 2 year player who's in decline? Put yourself in the Dolphins spot for a second when you think about that.

[stlchiefs]

pfffft...ya, the league is teeming with QB's.

how old are you? I'm 45 and I'll lay money down that I can throw a football farther than you can.

How much you wanna make a bet I can throw a football over them mountains?... Yeah... Coach woulda put me in fourth quarter, we would've been state champions. No doubt. No doubt in my mind.

[BigChiefFan]

Look, this isn't Madden where you can trade your old player who still has a nice rating for high draft picks. Players do not get better when they are 37 years old. You can not trade your player based on what he did 2 years ago unless he's 25 and even then what you get isn't alot.

The NFL is a league of what have you done lately and lately Trent has sucked and got his brain scrambled. He at best has 2 years left.....why would you trade a first day pick for a 2 year player who's in decline? Put yourself in the Dolphins spot for a second when you think about that.
The same team that has Cleo Lemon taking all the snaps. It's all relative. The Dolphins are ****ed over at the QB position and are going to have to pony up if they want a former PB QB from the Chiefs. This isn't charity.

[Mecca]

The Dolphins with or without Green are likely going to finish last in that division........

[BigChiefFan]

The Dolphins with or without Green are likely going to finish last in that division........Not if they can get their offense on track. Their defense is stellar and they have some weapons on offense. They need O-line help and a QB and they're set.

[ct]

The same team that has Cleo Lemon taking all the snaps. It's all relative. The Dolphins are ****ed over at the QB position and are going to have to pony up if they want a former PB QB from the Chiefs. This isn't charity.

I still say that changes dramatically after Miami selects Stanton or Edwards with this 2nd round pick everyone is fretting over.

[kcchiefsus]

Does not sound like they are really talking according to Adam Schefter

GOING GREEN
http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10131440

Despite reports that a Trent Green-to-Miami trade is imminent, it is no more imminent than it was last week or the week before.


It looks like it will take some draft-deadline pressure for the Trent Green trade to go through.
The Dolphins and Chiefs haven't had a single discussion in close to two weeks, according to team officials. Green's agent, Jim Steiner, however, has spoken to each team and is hoping to facilitate a trade to Miami. He now is aiming to make a major effort to push through the trade for his client.

But not much has changed since the initial reports that Green likely was to end up in Miami. Green still is not expected to return to Kansas City. He still wants to play for Miami, which is the front runner to land his services. Kansas City still wants as much compensation as it can get in return. And once Green lands in Miami, then it is likely that Dolphins quarterback Daunte Culpepper would depart.

It's unlikely a deal will occur this week, but the closer the draft comes, the more the chances increase that Green will be wearing aqua.

Adam Schefter is a stupid Bronco homer. Today's KC Star article says that Carl talked with the Dolphins over the weekend, not 2 weeks ago like Schefter would lead us all to believe.

[Chief_in_Commander]

I think that if they are wanting to compete next year then they should give up a decent draft pick for Trent. I think for the Dolphins you count on Trent playing next year and competing then the year after working in a young guy that they have or through the draft this year. If you're them you have to because your defense isn't getting younger but they will be very good next year with the reigning mvp and the addition of porter. They Have a hb and te. They just want some stability at the qb position. Not that Trent is extremley stable but he's better than culpepper. If they can draft a young qb Trent would also be a good teacher/mentor to whoever they long-term answer is. I can see both arguments to why they shouldn't give up much but also why they might.

[kcchiefsus]

I still say that changes dramatically after Miami selects Stanton or Edwards with this 2nd round pick everyone is fretting over.

And do you actually think Stanton or Edwards are ready to start as rookies? I don't even see Quinn or Russell being ready to start as rookies. The phins need a guy to start for 1 or 2 years and to mentor the other QB's in the Coryell offense. Green is the perfect candidate for that.

[htismaqe]

I still say that changes dramatically after Miami selects Stanton or Edwards with this 2nd round pick everyone is fretting over.

That doesn't change anything. If they take Stanton or Edwards, they're going to need Green MORE, because neither one of those guys would benefit from being thrown into the fire Day 1.

[Mecca]

I think that if they are wanting to compete next year then they should give up a decent draft pick for Trent. I think for the Dolphins you count on Trent playing next year and competing then the year after working in a young guy that they have or through the draft this year. If you're them you have to because your defense isn't getting younger but they will be very good next year with the reigning mvp and the addition of porter. They Have a hb and te. They just want some stability at the qb position. Not that Trent is extremley stable but he's better than culpepper. If they can draft a young qb Trent would also be a good teacher/mentor to whoever they long-term answer is. I can see both arguments to why they shouldn't give up much but also why they might.

Who's this TE you speak of....and I am not impressed with Ronnie Brown he is very average to this point in his career.

[Mecca]

And do you actually think Stanton or Edwards are ready to start as rookies? I don't even see Quinn or Russell being ready to start as rookies. The phins need a guy to start for 1 or 2 years and to mentor the other QB's in the Coryell offense. Green is the perfect candidate for that.

Put yourself in thier position even as a fan of their team.....would you as a rebuilding team give up a first day pick for a "mentor" in Greens position.....I personally wouldn't.

[Brock]

Put yourself in thier position even as a fan of their team.....would you as a rebuilding team give up a first day pick for a "mentor" in Greens position.....I personally wouldn't.

The Dolphins aren't rebuilding, they are underachieving.

[Mecca]

That defense is getting old.......that offense has holes all over the place while not making the playoffs I consider that rebuilding. They may not want to call it that but they need as many picks as they can get.

[ct]

And do you actually think Stanton or Edwards are ready to start as rookies? I don't even see Quinn or Russell being ready to start as rookies. The phins need a guy to start for 1 or 2 years and to mentor the other QB's in the Coryell offense. Green is the perfect candidate for that.

That doesn't change anything. If they take Stanton or Edwards, they're going to need Green MORE, because neither one of those guys would benefit from being thrown into the fire Day 1.

It changes everything, despite the fact they may not be ready to start.

First, the 2nd round pick is gone.

Second, they now have, whether it's real or not, a near future starting QB to bring to the bargaining table(there were more rookie QB starters last year than any I ever remember). Now they only need a half season mentor, not a full year or 2 year stopgap starter. Very different situation than gimpy knee Culpepper, and Cleo Lemon.

Third, they can put up a good argument that Trent now has less value to Miami, with a rookie, high 2nd round pick, than he does to KC, with a 2nd year, mid 3rd round pick.

[BigChiefFan]

Rebuilding? That's a novel approach, but it's also wrong. You aren't rebuilding when you have Zach Thomas, Jason Taylor, Vonnie Holliday, Keith Traylor, etc on your roster...try again.

[afchiefs]

That doesn't change anything. If they take Stanton or Edwards, they're going to need Green MORE, because neither one of those guys would benefit from being thrown into the fire Day 1.

agree

starting just drafted QB = Season that totally reeks (2-12)

[Mecca]

Rebuilding? That's a novel approach, but it's also wrong. You aren't rebuilding when you have Zach Thomas, Jason Taylor, Vonnie Holliday, Keith Traylor, etc on your roster...try again.

It means you can't just give up first day picks on a whim for a player close to retirement you already have several of them on your roster you have to replace in a short time frame...

Notice I said old defense......the offense is rebuilding the defense is getting old that was my point.

[Mr. Laz]

fark a first day pick would be sweet...just what a rebuilding team needs...

dare to dream, laz...dare to dream
PBJ PBJ PBJ






give us that 2nd round pick, Dam fish-mammals!! :cuss:

[BigChiefFan]

It means you can't just give up first day picks on a whim for a player close to retirement you already have several of them on your roster you have to replace in a short time frame...

Notice I said old defense......the offense is rebuilding the defense is getting old that was my point. They may be old, but they are cemented as starters. The Dolphins HAVE taken steps to get younger on BOTH offense and defense and they will continue to do so, like ALL teams in the NFL through the DRAFT.

Just because they are older on defense doesn't mean that outweighs a GLARING NEED at QB position. They can't trot Cleo Lemon on to the field and expect to get maximum potential out their defense. The window of opportunity is around 2-3 years to take ADVANTAGE of what they have already BUILT, probably shorter. Why are you discarding their defense and throwing that out of the equation?

Of course, they want younger players to step up? What team doesn't? That isn't the reality of the situation in Miami, though. The reality is, like you said, they aren't getting any younger. However, you miss the point of ...the time is NOW for them, not 3 years from now.

I don't see how you can say they aren't getting any younger in one breath and in the next, say they are looking to the future on offense.

They are either rebuilding or they aren't. Clearly, they aren't.


Play the cards you're dealt and the Dolphins hand has Cleo Lemon as the starting QB at this present time. We've got more leverage in this situation than some realize, but only up until draft day.

[FringeNC]

It all depends on whether it's a credible threat to keep Green at his current salary. I think Carl has to be bluffing, but maybe not.

[CoMoChief]

The guy was only second to Manning for a reason.

Because of a great Oline.

[BigChiefFan]

Because of a great Oline.
The O-line buys you time, but they don't complete passes. Green does deserve some credit.

[BigChiefFan]

April 17, 2007
Dolphins, Chiefs still working Green trade
Talks intensified this weekend between Dolphins general manager Randy Mueller and Chiefs president/general manager Carl Peterson in an effort to finalize the much-anticipated trade of quarterback Trent Green.

"I told Randy that they made a great trade with New England," Peterson told The Kansas City Star, referring to the deal that sent Wes Welker to the Patriots. "They got for what we would consider a third wide receiver and kick-return specialist for second- and seventh-round draft picks. I told him that I think a starting quarterback is worth that.

"Now we need to work toward something that's fair. We'll talk again this week. Whether it gets done before the draft or not, I can't say. It may happen this week, or it may not happen until after the draft."

The Dolphins and Green already have agreed to terms on a new contract.

"Daunte [Culpepper] is a guy that we're still looking to be that guy,"said Vonnie Holliday. "Hopefully, he can come back from this injury. If not, we have to be prepared. I love Trent Green. Here's a true team player. He's a great locker room guy. We could have him here as a safety blanket. That would be huge."

The teams must first agree to terms on the trade. The Chiefs apparently are now seeking a fifth-round pick, something the Dolphins don't have because they traded it for Joey Harrington. Some other scenarios that are being considered are the Dolphins trading two late-round picks to the Chiefs, or one pick and swapping positions in another round.

The Chiefs originally wanted a second-round draft choice in exchange for Green. The Dolphins were offering a seventh-round selection.

Either way, it's going to happen. Green, who has close ties with coach Cam Cameron and quarterbacks coach Terry Shea, wants to play for the Dolphins. He also controls his destiny, as he can nix any trade by refusing to restructure a contract that calls for a 2007 base salary of $7.2 million.

I know Green, who will be 37 at the start of the regular season, is a short-term solution. But acquiring Green and drafting a quarterback in the early rounds seems like the Dolphins' only hope of addressing the position at this point. Cleo Lemon appears to be a forgotten man.

[doomy3]

John Clayton is reporting that the Chiefs are still asking for a 2nd and 7th, but the Phins won't give up that much. He also said that yesterday they started talking about existing players in trade as well :hmmm:

[Archie Bunker]

He also said that yesterday they started talking about existing players in trade as well :hmmm:

Dante would be a decent throw in as a replacement for Welker.

[bdeg]

"I told Randy that they made a great trade with New England," Peterson told The Kansas City Star, referring to the deal that sent Wes Welker to the Patriots. "They got for what we would consider a third wide receiver and kick-return specialist for second- and seventh-round draft picks. I told him that I think a starting quarterback is worth that.

"Now we need to work toward something that's fair. We'll talk again this week. Whether it gets done before the draft or not, I can't say. It may happen this week, or it may not happen until after the draft."


Well played, Carl.

[bdeg]

John Clayton is reporting that the Chiefs are still asking for a 2nd and 7th, but the Phins won't give up that much. He also said that yesterday they started talking about existing players in trade as well :hmmm:

Hahaha, before we know it we'll have the phins AND Carolina fighting over Dante too(not). Could the dolphins use an inconsistent safety?

[Halfcan]

Sorry but the Phins look like real dumbfugs offering a 7th considering the QBs they have brough in and the compensation they paid for them.

[doomy3]

Hahaha, before we know it we'll have the phins AND Carolina fighting over Dante too(not). Could the dolphins use an inconsistent safety?


I was thinking more along the lines that maybe we are asking for one or some of their players in trade for Green. Chris Chambers maybe?

[bdeg]

I was thinking more along the lines that maybe we are asking for one or some of their players in trade for Green. Chris Chambers maybe?
That would be great. Thing is the Chiefs are shopping Hall and Wesley so I'd say that's more likely. But I would be all over that.

[ct]

April 17, 2007
Dolphins, Chiefs still working Green trade
Talks intensified this weekend between Dolphins general manager Randy Mueller and Chiefs president/general manager Carl Peterson in an effort to finalize the much-anticipated trade of quarterback Trent Green.

"I told Randy that they made a great trade with New England," Peterson told The Kansas City Star, referring to the deal that sent Wes Welker to the Patriots. "They got for what we would consider a third wide receiver and kick-return specialist for second- and seventh-round draft picks. I told him that I think a starting quarterback is worth that.

"Now we need to work toward something that's fair. We'll talk again this week. Whether it gets done before the draft or not, I can't say. It may happen this week, or it may not happen until after the draft."

The Dolphins and Green already have agreed to terms on a new contract.

"Daunte [Culpepper] is a guy that we're still looking to be that guy,"said Vonnie Holliday. "Hopefully, he can come back from this injury. If not, we have to be prepared. I love Trent Green. Here's a true team player. He's a great locker room guy. We could have him here as a safety blanket. That would be huge."

The teams must first agree to terms on the trade. The Chiefs apparently are now seeking a fifth-round pick, something the Dolphins don't have because they traded it for Joey Harrington. Some other scenarios that are being considered are the Dolphins trading two late-round picks to the Chiefs, or one pick and swapping positions in another round.

The Chiefs originally wanted a second-round draft choice in exchange for Green. The Dolphins were offering a seventh-round selection.

Either way, it's going to happen. Green, who has close ties with coach Cam Cameron and quarterbacks coach Terry Shea, wants to play for the Dolphins. He also controls his destiny, as he can nix any trade by refusing to restructure a contract that calls for a 2007 base salary of $7.2 million.

I know Green, who will be 37 at the start of the regular season, is a short-term solution. But acquiring Green and drafting a quarterback in the early rounds seems like the Dolphins' only hope of addressing the position at this point. Cleo Lemon appears to be a forgotten man.

Who wrote this and where did that come from? That seems like an extraordinary change in strategy from CP. Not that this new meeting point in the negotiations is bad, it seems more realistic, but this would most definitely be a blink.

[Archie Bunker]

Quick question for those with knowledge of the draft pick value chart.....

Would Miami's 2 6th rd picks equal a decent 5th rd pick?

[doomy3]

Sportscenter's on a commercial right now, but they just said John Clayton is coming up to talk about the Green to Dolphins stuff FYI

[Marco Polo]

They just said that the most the Dolphins will give up is a 6th and a backup player! b.s!

[bdeg]

I saw that. He didn't say anything new, but it was funny because they had "Damon Huard likely to be Chiefs starting QB" on the bottom and asked Clayton what he thought about it. Clayton basically says no, Chiefs want to start Croyle, Huard/Green will be #2.

[doomy3]

Clayton just said on SC that the Chiefs are asking for either:

a second and 7th or

a starting player

The Dolphins are trying to get it done for a 6th and a backup


Sounds like the sides are still pretty far apart

[bdeg]

They just said that the most the Dolphins will give up is a 6th and a backup player! b.s!
That's what they are offering right now. Big difference.

[BigRock]

They just said that the most the Dolphins will give up is a 6th and a backup player! b.s!
Clayton's been telling that same old story for weeks.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Considering Detroit is rumored to be expecting a 5th for McCown, I'd think a 37 year old ProBowler with a scrambled brain is worth a 4th or a swap of 3rd's.

And if not, **** them. Keep him and let him compete. He could still be the starter for this team.

[bigbucks24]

Would you mind if I gave you a little perspective from the Dolphin Message Board? In my past discussions with this board, I have been treated with nothing but respect, but I have read enough to know that this board can be rather…….harsh. I would be glad to share some quotes from finheaven.com VIP section. If you would rather I not, I understand and will go back to reading. Thanks.

[Hammock Parties]

Please do so, bigbucks.

[FAX]

Would you mind if I gave you a little perspective from the Dolphin Message Board? In my past discussions with this board, I have been treated with nothing but respect, but I have read enough to know that this board can be rather…….harsh. I would be glad to share some quotes from finheaven.com VIP section. If you would rather I not, I understand and will go back to reading. Thanks.

Please share, Mr. bigbucks24. I assure you that nothing bad will happen.

Ever.

FAX

[bigbucks24]

Here are some quotes from finheaven.com. They are a sample of a thread titled "Carl Peterson: Green worth a 7th and a 2nd round pick"

Peterson has resorted to trying to squeeze us in the press. :rolleyes:

The problem IMO is that he is disregarding the fact that Green will be 37, is coming off an AWFUL concussion and had a bad year as a result of it. He's not simply a "starting quarterback".

We're going to need Trent Green's help on this. Peterson is the kind of guy who would let Green sit out a year to prove how tough he is.

Yeah, I was hoping he was starting to come to his senses. I thought with the reports this weekend, that he backed off his crazy demands. This trade doesn't seem any closer then it was about a month ago.

exactly....i hope randy waits him out and gets him for a 6th or 7th...anything more and i'd think we're overpaying....

Randy Meuller: No; Go **** Yourself, Carl.


One thing that surprises me is that Carl Peterson continues to use a hardball, "shoot for the moon" negotiating style that does not lend itself to complex, repeated business transactions. You lose respect when you sit across an arms-length negotiating table and refuse to budge from an untenable position. It might work once. One time, against an artless negotiator, your "double his bid and then offer to split the difference" technique might possibly be beneficial. But it's hackneyed and predictable at this point and it makes you look foolish when it's publicized like these deals and everyone at home is watching. These repeated transactions establish your position vis-a-vis every other negotiator. In other words, people know Carl is the unreasonable dbag and you can cut his offer by 75%. So if Carl ever opens a bidding session with a REAL value, he's going to be SOL because everyone knows he cries wolf. And the worst part is, in any event he looks the fool for always ending up with a tiny fraction of his initial ludicrous demands.

More shrewd is the man who comes in demanding a 4th and leaves the room with a 5th, 6th, and 7th.

Maybe Peterson is caught in some sort of time warp and he thinks this is 2002 and Trent Green is 32 years old.
He failed to mention that Welker is only 25 years old and has progressed each year and has turned into a very good slot receiver while trying to compare his value for to a 37 year old QB who is one hit away from retirement and about to cost KC over $7M this season.
The man is delusional.

Is this guy off his freakin' rocker? Give me a break. He's been in the NFL long enough to know that you can't make that kind of a comparison. If he really did ask for that I'd consider telling him to get lost and ending this whole thing. Thats just nuts. I understand there are bargaining techniques, but you don't make an outragous request like that.

I don't think he's moved an inch. I mean, he's demanding more than what we paid for Daunte.

As Randy Mueller said on Sunday, "The guy with the gold makes the rules." Despite the fact that we're the only team pursuing Green, Peterson still has the gold.

IMO, we need to be prepared to walk away. We cannot meet Peterson even in the middle on this. If we had a 5th round pick, maybe we offer that. But we don't. And our 4th is too pricy. I don't see us even considering giving up two draft picks in the same year. Not this team.

Peterson's price is so high, I can't see us getting him without coming out on the losing end of the trade.
Very interesting to see the different perspective.

[bigbucks24]

Please share, Mr. bigbucks24. I assure you that nothing bad will happen.

Ever.

FAX
YIKES!! How do I recall a post???

[Mecca]

Considering Detroit is rumored to be expecting a 5th for McCown, I'd think a 37 year old ProBowler with a scrambled brain is worth a 4th or a swap of 3rd's.

And if not, **** them. Keep him and let him compete. He could still be the starter for this team.

I don't think Green will play for the Chiefs as a backup, I believe he'd force their hand into cutting him before he did that.

Also if you were a Dolphin fan you'd think the way they do.......each side is extremely far off on this one Green at best is worth a 4 AT BEST.

[the Talking Can]

I wouldn't trade Green for less than a 4th...they want him - need him - to start, even if it is only a year...

it's a game of chicken, the only way to win is if you're willing to crash....

they can shove their 6th right up Culpeppers worthless ass.....

[Hammock Parties]

Mwahahaha. Carl has them all pissed off in Fishland. Hilarious.

[BigRock]

Mwahahaha. Carl has them all pissed off in Fishland. Hilarious.
Having been over there to look, I can't decide which posts are more bizarre. The ones where they honestly seem to think that they're the ones negotiating from a position of strength, or the ones that are like "I'd rather start Cleo Lemon and go 2-14 than give up more than a 6th rounder!!11!!!!!!!!!111!1111!!!!".

And there are a fairly alarming number of both types of posts, all with the usual "AMEN" type responses following them.

[NewChief]

Having been over there to look, I can't decide which posts are more bizarre. The ones where they honestly seem to think that they're the ones negotiating from a position of strength, or the ones that are like "I'd rather start Cleo Lemon and go 2-14 than give up more than a 6th rounder!!11!!!!!!!!!111!1111!!!!".

And there are a fairly alarming number of both types of posts, all with the usual "AMEN" type responses following them.

I really dread the day Trent ends up there, and I am forced to start reading the tripe on finheaven. I've tried to go over there a few times, and it's the biggest bunch of incoherent, ill-informed rubbish I've seen on a football board.

[stlchiefs]

it's the biggest bunch of incoherent, ill-informed rubbish I've seen on a football board.

All that sun will do that to ya.

[milkman]

not necessarily When KC obtained Montana he was in his late 30's also

Yeah, Montana was 36.

I thought then, as I still do now, that the trade was a long term mistake.

[milkman]

Of course, they want younger players to step up? What team doesn't? That isn't the reality of the situation in Miami, though. The reality is, like you said, they aren't getting any younger. However, you miss the point of ...the time is NOW for them, not 3 years from now.

Is their time really now?

I don't see it.

Even with Green, it's going to take time for the rest of the offense time to learn the new scheme, and they need bodies on the O-Line.

They sure as hell won't make a push for the SB, and very likely won't even make the playoffs.

By the time the offense is ready, Green will be on his way out, along with the aging players on defense.

The reality is, trading away a high draft pick would be an ill conceived idea for the Dolphins.

Were I Randy Mueller, there's no way I give in to Carl.

[Hammock Parties]

Delete your post before Randy reads it.

[ct]

football thread bump

[jth1331]

I wouldn't trade Green for less than a 4th...they want him - need him - to start, even if it is only a year...

it's a game of chicken, the only way to win is if you're willing to crash....

they can shove their 6th right up Culpeppers worthless ass.....

haha, the Dolphins don't "need" Green. Green gives them 1-2 years max, what the hell are they going to do in those years? At best 8-8 seasons IMO.
I just think its stupid for Miami to do this trade, and honestly, stupid for anyone to trade for Trent Green.
But then again, a team did trade for Jake Plummer...