What's with this city and WR's?

[Mecca]

On this board and listening to the radio this week you'd think we had the greatest WR's in all the NFL. Everytime I heard a draft expect on the radio this week say he thought we should take a WR he quickly got dismissed by the host like he was dumb.

I don't get it, when you have one of the worst WR groups in all the league it is a problem. The Chiefs are as weak at that position as any on the team.......Also I don't get this whole defense of "well we got by with it till now" Yea let's not point out how old Kennison is and how there is nothing behind him...we got away with it due to a line that was better than you could ever expect. That shit doesn't fly now we need WR's that can get open quickly. Notice how long our QB's have to hold the ball waiting for someone to get open.....a sympton of bad WR's.

Anyone who really believes we don't need a WR and we'll be fine is devaluing the position to a ridiculous extent. We need a WR as much as we need anything.......

Of course the Chiefs organization seems to devalue the position just like fans and media people just the same........if I watch this team take Justin Harrell over Ted Ginn I may go insane.

[the Talking Can]

yes, it's you against the world....

poor fella, forced to throw another hissy fit

[the Talking Can]

by the way, could you point me to all those threads were everyone on the planet unanimously declares that "we have the greatest WR's in all the NFL"?

I'd like to read those threads....

[Mecca]

by the way, could you point me to all those threads were everyone on the planet unanimously declares that "we have the greatest WR's in all the NFL"?

I'd like to read those threads....

There are people that don't want to take a WR........

And quit spinning shit like I'm just saying me, there are other people that feel we need a WR.

[Brock]

Huh....I don't see anyone saying the Chiefs have the best WRs in the NFL. Are you just pulling stuff out of your ass again?

How come you're always talking about value in the draft, but you're fixated on this one position?

[Mecca]

I like how I can't even post a thread these days.....

[Brock]

I like how some people want a certain position at all costs, never mind that is a great way for a reach. Like this team doesn't have holes all over the place.

[Mecca]

I like how some people want a certain position at all costs, never mind that is a great way for a reach. Like this team doesn't have holes all over the place.

You mean like DT or OT?

There's a high percentage chance the best player on the board will be a WR.......

When I say my point I don't mean "everyone" I mean people who act like it isn't a need or a high priority need.

[Chiefnj2]

A lot of people don't watch college ball and just react to the weekly change of opinion draft experts. So when Staley or Harrell or Tyler is the flavor of the week people jump on the bandwagon. WR was a popular discussion item in March. The experts don't talk about it except to say the WR's are slipping, so people jump off the bandwagon.

There's also a good chance of picking up a WR in the 2nd round for good value.

At #23 the only WR's I think warrant a pick are obviously CJ and then Ginn and Meachem. Bowe would be close, but would probably just miss the cut on my value board.

A good example is the ESPN fan mock draft. KC was up this morning and you could vote for one of three players to draft at 23 - Patrick Willis, Carriker or Staley. I have no idea how Willis and Carricker fell so far, but obviously both players would be a huge steal if they fell to 23. Who did the fans vote for? You got it - Staley.

[Direckshun]

Dwayne Bowe, bitches. Comin' atcha @ #23.

You all can suck my balls 'cause it's gonna happen.

[suds79]

Mecca you can't get mad at the anti WR people. They just don't know any better.

Maybe people think Tong G will play at his high level forever. Maybe they think Eddie Kennison will always be just good enough to remain our #1 WR. Maybe they think we'll always have a dominate running game. I don't know.

What I do know is that the offense was slipping fast last year and was flat out embarrassing in the playoff game while the defense showed much improvement with young key guys who are going to do nothing but get better.

So I think WR is the way to go. True rookie WRs typically don't do much in their 1st year but you have to make the investment sometime. Might as well be now while we'll be rebuilding an offense around a new young QB and O-line.

Furthermore, given when guys are suppose to go, I don't see a good fit. Levi Brown will be gone. DTs Branch & Okoye will be gone and Harrell would be a reach. There are a couple of WRs we could take at 23. However, I still hope we trade down and get Jarrett.... Or just draft him. He won't disappoint.

[Direckshun]

Dwayne Jarrett, bitches. Comin' at ya @ #23.

You all can suck my balls 'cause it's gonna happen.

[Brock]

You mean like DT or OT?

There's a high percentage chance the best player on the board will be a WR.......

When I say my point I don't mean "everyone" I mean people who act like it isn't a need or a high priority need.



Say Bowe, Meacham and Ginn are gone when the Chiefs pick. Who do you pick without trading down?

[Direckshun]

At WR?

Jarrett. Suck my balls.

[Mecca]

I'd lean to Jarrett I like him better than guys like Harrell and Tank Tyler and I don't think this team should be taking a corner first round.

[Tribal Warfare]

I don't think this team should be taking a corner first round.


I'm starting to believe that either Revis or Wright will be KC's 1st rounder.

[ChiefsCountry]

Receiver is the best value in this draft. Its deep, but the studs are in the first IMO and drops off in the second big time.

[Direckshun]

I like how I can't even post a thread these days.....
I agree with your OP but you are one whiney little bitch.

[the Talking Can]

There are people that don't want to take a WR........

And quit spinning shit like I'm just saying me, there are other people that feel we need a WR.

there are LOTS of people on this board who would love to have a WR...

you're making shit up

everything is "you against the world", if you'd stop generalizing about all of us we'd stop making fun of you....

[Mecca]

there are LOTS of people on this board who would love to have a WR...

you're making shit up

everything is "you against the world", if you'd stop generalizing about all of us we'd stop making fun of you....

Flip on a radio station and listen to how they react to the idea of us taking a WR........that is more or less what I was talking about.

[chagrin]

At WR?

Jarrett. Suck my balls.


psst, dude - that suck my balls thing is not manly, it's totally gay. I just wanted to tell you that.

[htismaqe]

I'm not opposed to taking a WR in the 1st. But this is a VERY DEEP WR crop.

If somebody like Levi Brown or Patrick Willis were to drop, we'd be stupid to take a WR when there will be ample talent available when we pick in the 2nd.

[ct]

There are people that don't want to take a WR........

And quit spinning shit like I'm just saying me, there are other people that feel we need a WR.

There are many people, myself included, who do not want a WR in the 1st round. There is a good list of quality WR prospects we can get in the 2nd or 3rd. Outside of CJ, I don't see any WR that I'm sure absolutely will develop into a true #1 WR. One of these 1st round prospects, Ginn, I don't know that he even wants to play WR, why the hell would you take that in the 1st?

I've seen nobody, literally nobody, ever say "we do not need to take any WRs."

[chief2000]

Herm doesn't value WR as a premium position.

It's not just him. I heard an NFL scout on the radio say that Herm values bigmen.

If there is a bigman that can help or a risk pick which is usually wr, what yould you do?

Wr can be found in the lower rounds.

No one is talking Webb and Hannon. Herm said the corners can't cover them.

We'll see if Herm is fibbing this week.

[Brock]

Herm doesn't value WR as a premium position.


That's interesting since his very first pick as a coach was Santana Moss.

[Bowser]

That's interesting since his very first pick as a coach was Santana Moss.

The Jets had an outstanding receiver corp. People seem to forget that.

It's way overdue that the Chiefs address their need at WR. Tony Gonzalez alone has let the Chiefs let that position slide in means of draft day importance. Tony is still a top 3 TE, but we desperately need a young stud wideout in this offense, smash mouth or no (and imo, I don't think it's going to be as smash mouth in '07 as it was in '06).

It's going to be an interesting draft. There seems to be more quality around where we pick this year than has been lately.

[Chiefnj]

That's interesting since his very first pick as a coach was Santana Moss.

It's also interesting that Herm would then several years later trade away that very first pick.

[Delano]

I'm still recovering from the Sly Morris fiasco. I wonder if people see the success under Vermeil with the same quality receivers and think that offensive firepower can continue under Herm.

[ChiefsCountry]

Herm doesn't value WR as a premium position.

It's not just him. I heard an NFL scout on the radio say that Herm values bigmen.

If there is a bigman that can help or a risk pick which is usually wr, what yould you do?

Wr can be found in the lower rounds.

No one is talking Webb and Hannon. Herm said the corners can't cover them.

We'll see if Herm is fibbing this week.

If you are counting on a 6th rounder and an undrafted free agent to be your WR's, not a pretty side.

[htismaqe]

It's also interesting that Herm would then several years later trade away that very first pick.

For a WIDE RECEIVER.

[Eric]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laveranues_Coles

Who was a 3rd round pick in the draft.

The cycle is complete

[KevB]

The history of 1st round WR busts (exhibit A: Broncos) is well documented, so I won't go into it. If that's a person's rationale for not going WR in the 1st round, I won't argue it. Having said that, if WR is the best player available, and it may very well turn out to be the case, then pick the guy. WR is clearly a huge need, if not our biggest need. But if a top guy at another position falls into our laps, you have to take the gift that's been given. There will be opportunities in the 2nd round to get a quality prospect at WR. Jarrett, Steve Smith, Gonzalez, and Rice are all projecting to the 2nd round potentially. Hopefully one of them falls to us if we don't go WR in the 1st.

[Brock]

It's also interesting that Herm would then several years later trade away that very first pick.

For what?

[ChiefsCountry]

For what?
Laveranues Coles

[Brock]

Laveranues Coles

LOL, k.

[Eric]

I am not against taking a WR early but that history frightens alot of people.

[Mecca]

I am not against taking a WR early but that history frightens alot of people.

Well then we should never pick a DT ever then with that theory.....

Jeff Webb is the new Marc Boerigter around here.

[OnTheWarpath15]

If you are counting on a 6th rounder and an undrafted free agent to be your WR's, not a pretty side.

Gimme a break.

I guess we should forfeit our 6th and 7th round picks this year, according to you, players taken that late are worthless.....

Many people here, myself inclused, felt that Jarrad Page wouldn't even make the team. He ended up being one of our better defensive players, as a rookie.

Tom Brady, Marques Colston, the list goes on.

I'm not saying that Webb and Hannon are gonna be superstars, but to dismiss them just becuase they were drafted late or not at all is retarded.

We will draft a WR or two this year. It just may not be in R1. There's plenty of talent later in the first day.......

[Mecca]

I think it's just a common fact Carl Peterson has devalued WR like no other position, it's a reason we've had garbage WRs his entire time here........viewing the position this way is what got us here.

Thinking 2nd day picks would be good......relying on people you shouldn't rely on.

I enjoy how in 18 years Peterson has drafted 1 WR in the first round. If you take a look at how many WR's go in rounds 1 and 2 every year you can tell most teams feel it's a very important position.

[htismaqe]

Well then we should never pick a DT ever then with that theory.....

Jeff Webb is the new Marc Boerigter around here.

Not really.

Jeff Webb is far more physically talented than Boerigter. Futhermore, Boerigter got a chance to prove he wasn't that good. Webb hasn't gotten any such chance.

[Mecca]

If they wanna give him a chance fine but it also shouldn't influence draft decisions because he is not proven. And hey it would be nice because we need more than 1 WR.

[ChiefsCountry]

Gimme a break.

I guess we should forfeit our 6th and 7th round picks this year, according to you, players taken that late are worthless.....

Many people here, myself inclused, felt that Jarrad Page wouldn't even make the team. He ended up being one of our better defensive players, as a rookie.

Tom Brady, Marques Colston, the list goes on.

I'm not saying that Webb and Hannon are gonna be superstars, but to dismiss them just becuase they were drafted late or not at all is retarded.

We will draft a WR or two this year. It just may not be in R1. There's plenty of talent later in the first day.......

I'm not saying they arent talented but to just soley count on them to be your WR's is a scary thought. We need more talent at the position.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'm not saying they arent talented but to just soley count on them to be your WR's is a scary thought. We need more talent at the position.

I agree , but I'm not gonna bitch and moan (you know who you are) if it's not in R1.

[Mecca]

I agree , but I'm not gonna bitch and moan (you know who you are) if it's not in R1.

I'll bitch depending upon what they take.......if they take some ridiculously stupid pick, I'll bitch regardless.

[Eric]

For all the talk about NE being a great drafting team,what happened to their first pick a season or two ago, the Florida wr?

If they can't even hit wr in the first round then......

[Mecca]

For all the talk about NE being a great drafting team,what happened to their first pick a season or two ago, the Florida wr?

If they can't even hit wr in the first round then......

It was last year and he wasn't a 1st Chad Jackson was their 2nd round pick.......he got injured about 4 times then blew an ACL. He had to many injuries to ever really get on the field to know much of anything about him.

[milkman]

For all the talk about NE being a great drafting team,what happened to their first pick a season or two ago, the Florida wr?

If they can't even hit wr in the first round then......

Chad Jackson?

He was a second round pick last year, and he's still with the team.

[Eric]

ok

[Eric]

Bowe?
http://proxy.espn.go.com/melkiper/index.html

[JohnnyV13]

I actually like Anthony Gonzalez.

The guy ran 4.44 at the combine, AND was no. 1 in both agility drills (3-cone and 20 yard shuttle).

The knocks on him is he was always used as a possession receiver at ohio state and has only started one year.

BUT, Gonzalez is said to run precise routes, has good hands and has better speed than expected. This is a guy that could become a Marvin Harrison type. I'm not saying he'll be as good as harrison, but that if you hit the jackpot, that's the kond of player you'll have: runs good routes, has great hands with enough speed to hurt teams deep, but without the great RAC skills.

[JohnnyV13]

OK, if none of the WR's are available in the first, I would go after Staley. I wouldn't be upset by Ryan Kalil, Ben Grubbs or Justin Blaylock. If a corner like Revis falls I also would grab him.

Some call Justin Harrell a reach. I don't have enough of an opinion on him to say that, I would have to trust the Chiefs scouts were right just like last year when pundits said Tamba Hali was a reach. I also would not be upset if they evaluated wR Anthony Gonzalez as a low first round draft pick.

Of course, in the ESPN draft where Staley, Carriker and Willis were available, I would have gone for Carriker and played him as a one-gap tackle.

Now, down in the draft i like Penn State's Jay Alford as a "bargain" d tackle. Go read NFL.com's player profile on him (in the "draft" section). He seems like a valuable rotation player good for passing situations in a cover-2 D. Last year I noticed Mark Andersen and Elvis Dumervil as "bargain" DE's from reading the nfl.com evaluations. BOTH of them would have been great value picks.

In the 2nd round, I like Brandon Mebane, Tank Tyler, Arron Sears, and Steve Smith.

[Mecca]

Which WR's are you talking about when you say "none of the WR's" I'm 99% sure Jarrett is still going to be available and of Meacham, Ginn, Bowe and all those guys 1 of them should be there....if all of them are gone I'll be highly surprised.

[JohnnyV13]

Which WR's are you talking about when you say "none of the WR's" I'm 99% sure Jarrett is still going to be available and of Meacham, Ginn, Bowe and all those guys 1 of them should be there....if all of them are gone I'll be highly surprised.


Well, generally Meachem, Ginn and Bowe are considered the first round receivers after CJ, with Jarrett falling into the 2nd because of his 40 time. Furthermore, I'm worried Ginn might be another Desmond Howard, a dynamic playmaker in the open field who won't be much as a WR because he doesn't run good routes and can get jammed at the line.

Of course, Jarrett's 4.6 is just about what Jerry Rice ran in 1985. Rice was still a pretty productive receiver for the raiders as late as 2002-03, AND I'll wager Rice wasn't running a 4.6 anymore.

Again, this is where scouting comes into play. I've read reports of scouts leery of Jarrett because not only does he run a 4.6, he's not supposed to be sudden in and out of breaks. Now, if that's true, it means he won't be a playmaker in the NFL.

If the Chiefs DO pick Jarrett at 23, I'll hope their scouts have done their jobs and won' be upset, but I won't be turning carwheels either. I liked the Tamba Hali pick last season because of his intagibles and production. I won't be as happy with Jarrett, but I DO think the Chiefs drafts have improved since Kuharic became the personnel guy.

[JohnnyV13]

I also wouldn't be unhappy if we didn't take a WR in the first and went with Laurent Robinson in the 3rd round or so. He's a small school guy, (Indiana State) but has good athletic numbers, size and is said to be a really hard worker.

nfl.com's player profiles list him as having good RAC, ball snatching ability, terrific agility and suddeness.

[ChiefsCountry]

I also wouldn't be unhappy if we didn't take a WR in the first and went with Laurent Robinson in the 3rd round or so. He's a small school guy, (Indiana State) but has good athletic numbers, size and is said to be a really hard worker.

nfl.com's player profiles list him as having good RAC, ball snatching ability, terrific agility and suddeness.

Its Illinois State not Indiana State.

[htismaqe]

You've thrown alot of names out there, most of which I have no problem with.

The thing is, most of these guys fit the sam profile of the Hali pick - productive on the field. Gonzales, Blalock, Sears, Jarrett - all productive.

The only guy you mentioned that I DON'T like as a potential 1st-rounder is Staley.

[htismaqe]

I actually like Anthony Gonzalez.

The guy ran 4.44 at the combine, AND was no. 1 in both agility drills (3-cone and 20 yard shuttle).

The knocks on him is he was always used as a possession receiver at ohio state and has only started one year.

BUT, Gonzalez is said to run precise routes, has good hands and has better speed than expected. This is a guy that could become a Marvin Harrison type. I'm not saying he'll be as good as harrison, but that if you hit the jackpot, that's the kond of player you'll have: runs good routes, has great hands with enough speed to hurt teams deep, but without the great RAC skills.

Anthony Gonzales already HAS great RAC skills...

[Chief Roundup]

I like how I can't even post a thread these days.....


reckon it is because people are tired of your worn out banter and negativity. If you haven't you should check out the poll. You are losing horribly. A lot of people on this board are tired of you and your negativity, argumentative attitude.
Oh the world is out to get me type of shit.

[milkman]

reckon it is because people are tired of your worn out banter and negativity. If you haven't you should check out the poll. You are losing horribly. A lot of people on this board are tired of you and your negativity, argumentative attitude.
Oh the world is out to get me type of shit.

The problem, as I see it, is that Mecca's opininions, which are often right, are negative, and people get pissed and insult him.

His "argumentative attitude" is the result of those constant insults that weren't really warranted.

He may not always be right, but he very rarely has been the one responsible for the initial personal attacks.

[Brock]

I like having Mecca around. Where else are you going to get the "Kawika Mitchell is going to get 30 million dollars and if you can't see that you don't understand football" perspective?

[CupidStunt]

I like having Mecca around. Where else are you going to get the "Kawika Mitchell is going to get 30 million dollars and if you can't see that you don't understand football" perspective?

LMAO

[Spicy McHaggis]

Anthony Gonzales already HAS great RAC skills...

I wouldn't mind skipping the WR position in the first if we got Gonzalez in the second. I feel a lot more confidant taking him there (in the 2nd) than I do taking any of the WR's who will be available at 23.

And if he's a complete whiff than it's just another King Carl second rounder right?

[Mecca]

I like having Mecca around. Where else are you going to get the "Kawika Mitchell is going to get 30 million dollars and if you can't see that you don't understand football" perspective?

That just means the league isn't as dumb as a whole as I thought.....this market was ridiculous. And players every bit as shitty have gotten deals like that........

[Brock]

That just means the league isn't as dumb as a whole as I thought.....this market was ridiculous. And players every bit as shitty have gotten deals like that........

You are always telling people "how things work" in the NFL. Keep doing it, it gives me something to laugh about.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The problem, as I see it, is that Mecca's opininions, which are often right, are negative, and people get pissed and insult him.

His "argumentative attitude" is the result of those constant insults that weren't really warranted.

He may not always be right, but he very rarely has been the one responsible for the initial personal attacks.


:hmmm:

Do you have him confused with someone else?

Youboty is a better pro prospect than Hali is.....

Lawson isn't getting by Dallas at the latest.

At this point I'm of the belief that Hali would be a reach at 20

Bullshit he's younger.......he gets atleast 30 mill, mark it down.

That's just the tip of the iceberg, I can't dedicate the time it would take to post all of that BS.....

[milkman]

:hmmm:

Do you have him confused with someone else?









That's just the tip of the iceberg, I can't dedicate the time it would take to post all of that BS.....

Yes, he's often wrong, as well.

But none of us are always right, and many of us are often wrong.

[LiL stumppy]

Whats the point in drafting a WR in the first if our QB is laying on the ground before the WR is even half-way through his rout. We may be lacking a number 1 WR, but many teams lack at the TE spot un-like we do. I am not saying WR isn't a problem,but I would be fine with one in the second or third. There are bigger needs at this point than WR.

[milkman]

Whats the paint in drafting a WR in the first if our QB is laying on the ground before the WR is even half-way through his rout. We may be lacking a number 1 WR, but many teams lack at the TE spot un-like we do. I am not saying WR isn't a problem,but I would be fine with one in the second or third.

Indy drafted a WR in '96 before they had an O-Line or a QB.

I wonder how that worked out?

[LiL stumppy]

a what?

[milkman]

a what?

Given the fact that we are talking about WRs, you should have been able to figure out that I'm talking about WR.

[LiL stumppy]

Yea your probably right. Because it worked for Indy, doesn't mean it would work for the Chiefs. And there is no player the caliber of Marvin Harrison at WR this year,so why take the chance?

[milkman]

Yea your probably right. Because it worked for Indy, doesn't mean it would work for the Chiefs. And there is no player the caliber of Marvin Harrison at WR this year,so why take the chance?

The point is, you don't simply ignore the position because you have needs elsewhere.

You build championship caliber teams by taking the best player available.

I would not draft an O-Lineman at 23 because there won't be any that are worthy of that pick.

There is a strong likelyhood that WR will be the BPA, and unless we trade down, that's the position we should pick.

[LiL stumppy]

How would you know how to build a champion cailber team? There is no STUD anything at 23. You take a WR there, IMO your going to be reaching. Same with OL, and we need a OL more than we need a WR IMO.

[ChiefsCountry]

How would you know how to build a champion cailber team? There is no STUD anything at 23. You take a WR there, IMO your going to be reaching. Same with OL, and we need a OL more than we need a WR IMO.

WTH are you talking about?

[LiL stumppy]

WTH are you talking about?

Can you not read?

[milkman]

How would you know how to build a champion cailber team? There is no STUD anything at 23. You take a WR there, IMO your going to be reaching. Same with OL, and we need a OL more than we need a WR IMO.

I know that the Pats, Colts, Rams and Steelers all used this formula to build SB winning teams.

The 9ers and the Cowboys before them did the same.

And there's no way in hell taking a WR there is reaching.

It's a near certainty that there are a number of WRs that will be there that can, and will be considered the best player available at that spot.

It's also a near certainty that any O-Lineman there will be a high 2nd round value player at best.

[LiL stumppy]

NO WR in this draft is that good of a player,other than Calvin. The rest are iffy.

[milkman]

NO WR in this draft is that good of a player,other than Calvin. The rest are iffy.

Everyone that falls into the 23rd spot is "iffy".

[LiL stumppy]

Thats what I have been saying. I would rather take the chance on a OL more than a WR.

[milkman]

Thats what I have been saying. I would rather take the chance on a OL more than a WR.

The problem is that the O-Lineman that are left here have BIGGER question marks.

The WRs here are the BETTER AVAILABLE players.

[LiL stumppy]

And which WR do you want is to draft?

[milkman]

And which WR do you want is to draft?

Jarrett would be my first choice.

[LiL stumppy]

Ha, a WR that ran a 4.67 and 4.62 40-time, NO THANKS. Whats your second choice?

[milkman]

Ha, a WR that ran a 4.67 and 4.62 40-time, NO THANKS. Whats your second choice?

Yeah, speed is an issue, but the guy just makes plays.

I'd rather have that in this offense than someone like Ginn, who has questionable hands.

My second choice would be Meacham or Bowe.

[LiL stumppy]

Meacham will be gone before our pick.Bow would be a huge reach,and Ginn also ran a 4.57 at the Chiefs workout.

[LiL stumppy]

The guy isn't going to be making plays in the NFL with that speed. AT ALL.

[ChiefsCountry]

milkman is owning this debate.

[LiL stumppy]

milkman is owning this debate.


ROFL ,sure thing bud. I guess I was right earlier, you really cant read can you?

[milkman]

The guy isn't going to be making plays in the NFL with that speed. AT ALL.

Making plays at WR isn't all about speed.

If it was, then Samie Parker would be a stud.

Jarrett has athletic ability and can go up over DBs to make catches.

He has great hands and instincts and a great work ethic.

[LiL stumppy]

Um it is a huge part if it. Please tell me one stud in the NFL who runs over a 4.55. NNOOOOOO ONE. Speed is HUGE for a WR. If we draft Barret, say hello to an average posestion(sp?) receiver.

[milkman]

Meacham will be gone before our pick.Bow would be a huge reach,and Ginn also ran a 4.57 at the Chiefs workout.

Ginn is not 100%.
Bowe is rated fairly close to Meacham on most draft boards, who you say will be gone before we pick, but if we pick him at 23 he'll be a reach.

[LiL stumppy]

I was basing the Meacham pick off most mock, about 80 % of them having him going earlier than we pick. Either way, they all will be reaches at 23.

[milkman]

Um it is a huge part if it. Please tell me one stud in the NFL who runs over a 4.55. NNOOOOOO ONE. Speed is HUGE for a WR. If we draft Barret, say hello to an average posestion(sp?) receiver.

I don't really pay all that much attention to timed speed, so I can't say who runs what.

I do know that Marvin Harrison isn't considered fast.
I would be really surprised to learn that Chris Carter ran much lower 4.6.

I'm also pretty sure that Jerry Rice was somewhere in the 4.5 range.

[ChiefsCountry]

Um it is a huge part if it. Please tell me one stud in the NFL who runs over a 4.55. NNOOOOOO ONE. Speed is HUGE for a WR. If we draft Barret, say hello to an average posestion(sp?) receiver.

Jerry Rice was a stud and he wasnt the fastest guy.

[milkman]

I was basing the Meacham pick off most mock, about 80 % of them having him going earlier than we pick. Either way, they all will be reaches at 23.

In other words, they are all reaches because you say they are?

[LiL stumppy]

I don't really pay all that much attention to timed speed, so I can't say who runs what.

I do know that Marvin Harrison isn't considered fast.
I would be really surprised to learn that Chris Carter ran much lower 4.6.

I'm also pretty sure that Jerry Rice was somewhere in the 4.5 range.

Um,he may not be considered "Fast" but he runs under a 4.55. Same with Rice. Not sure about Carter. And if you forgot, Jarret doesn't run a 4.55. he runs a 4.62. That is incredibaly slow for a NFL WR.

[LiL stumppy]

Jerry Rice was a stud and he wasnt the fastest guy.


Are you reading what he is saying and re-typing it so you look smart?

[ChiefsCountry]

Speed is nice but its not what makes a good receiver. If that was the case Samie Parker should be a stud. Catching the ball is the most important, and people get so enamored with speed that fail to reconginzie simple ability.

[milkman]

Um,he may not be considered "Fast" but he runs under a 4.55. Same with Rice. Not sure about Carter. And if you forgot, Jarret doesn't run a 4.55. he runs a 4.62. That is incredibaly slow for a NFL WR.

I'm betting that Harrison would clock right at or higher than a 4.6 now.

[ChiefsCountry]

Are you reading what he is saying and re-typing it so you look smart?

Look at the time posted it was at the same time.

[milkman]

Are you reading what he is saying and re-typing it so you look smart?

His post was almost simultaneous with mine.

[LiL stumppy]

I'm betting that Harrison would clock right at or higher than a 4.6 now.


Um I highly doubt that.

[LiL stumppy]

Speed is nice but its not what makes a good receiver. If that was the case Samie Parker should be a stud. Catching the ball is the most important, and people get so enamored with speed that fail to reconginzie simple ability.


Are you freaking kidding me

[Coogs]

Two articles I found on Rice. The first one has his 40 time...

Jerry Rice Retires
From James Alder,
Your Guide to Football.
FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now!
Sep 6 2005
Former 49ers WR Jerry Rice Retires From the NFL
When it comes to naming the greatest wide receiver of all time, there is no debate. It’s Jerry Rice hands down. With 38 NFL records on his resume, no one comes close to approaching the numbers he’s produced during his 20-year career; a career that came to a close Monday as he announced his retirement from the game rather than be buried on the Denver Broncos depth chart.

Obviously his skills have eroded over the past few years, to the point where he no longer resembles the figure who consistently converted short slants into 70-yard touchdowns while in his prime. But his love of the game is still strong. However, pride wouldn’t allow him to settle for anything less than a job as the No. 3 man in the wide receiver rotation. When it became apparent he would land nothing better than the fourth slot in Denver, he walked away.

Rice began his NFL career as a highly-touted prospect out of Mississippi Valley State in 1985.

But his 4.7 speed in the 40-yard dash caused teams to shy away from him on draft day before the San Francisco 49ers selected him with the 16th pick in the first round. Twenty years and 303 games later, Rice ranks among the Jim Brown’s and Walter Payton’s as one of the best to ever strap on the shoulder pads.
During his career, Rice caught 1,549 passes for 22,895 yards and had 197 touchdown receptions. To put those numbers in perspective, take a look at those he has long-since surpassed. Cris Carter is second to Rice with 1,101 receptions; a difference of 448 catches from No. 1 to No. 2. And it was Carter again who registered 67 fewer receiving touchdowns to once again finish second to Rice. The legendary Tim Brown falls an unbelievable 8,000 yards short of Rice in receiving yards despite playing for 17 years himself. The difference alone in these stats would be considered a great career by most receivers.

Most consecutive games with a pass reception: Rice 274, Art Monk 183.

Most seasons over 1,000 yards receiving: Rice 14, Tim Brown 9

Most games over 100 yards receiving: Rice 76, Don Maynard 50

And the list goes on and on. The disparity between Rice and his closest rival is phenomenal, which is why he is easily the best receiver the league has ever seen.

Some might argue that Randy Moss deserves consideration in that argument, but he’s produced just over one third the receptions Rice did. It will take him more than another dozen seasons, at 80 receptions per season (Moss’s career average), to approach the number of catches Rice recorded. And Rice also holds a big advantage with three Super Bowl rings while Moss has yet to win his first.

Rice’s five-year wait for Pro Football Hall of Fame eligibility begins now, but it is a mere formality. His enshrinement is as set in stone as NFL football on a crisp fall Sunday afternoon and his name may never be eclipsed in many major categories of the NFL record books.

[milkman]

In other words, they are all reaches because you say they are?

I'm still waiting for the answer to this question.

[LiL stumppy]

Ok fair enough, but once again. In every aspect, Jarret is no Jerry Rice.

[Coogs]

The second one would parallel Rice to Jarrett. They both just made plays in college...


Rice gives small-school players a boost


By Lisa Zimmerman
Special to NFL.com




(April 12, 2005) -- Maybe it was Kismet. Twenty years ago, Mississippi Valley State University wasn't exactly considered a hot-bed for NFL talent.

But, that changed in the fall of 1984. Bill Walsh, then head coach of the San Francisco 49ers, was in Houston gearing up for the Oilers. As he was getting ready for bed, he turned on the television and happened to catch some college football highlights. It was then, for the first time, he laid his eyes on a young receiver from MVSU. Jerry Rice was blowing away his competition and Walsh sat up and took notice.

"He was beating everyone and scored, I think, four touchdowns in that game. I knew we'd probably end up playing against him, so I had our scouts take a closer look," recalled Walsh.

As the team prepared for the 1985 NFL Draft, although still considered a bit of a gamble, Rice remained at the top of the 49ers board. "We were drafting way down," Walsh said. "So we told New England, who had the 16th pick, if our guy is still there at 16, we'll trade you and give you our second-round pick."

And that's exactly what happened. Although in hindsight, there is now no question that it was one of the greatest selections in NFL Draft history, at the time it actually wasn't that cut and dried. Rice had put up outstanding numbers while at Mississippi Valley State; however, he also had the good fortune of being on the receiving end of quarterback Willie Totten, who was himself a record-setter. Then at that year's combine, where players' entire futures often hinge on how fast they can run the 40-yard dash, Rice was not impressive.

Nonetheless, the 49ers liked what they saw and their instincts proved correct beyond measure.

"Within 10 minutes of him taking the field at our first practice," said Walsh, "everyone there knew we were looking at someone special."

As for Rice, he was thrilled with the opportunity and understood that he had a lot to prove, both for himself and the MVSU program.


Jerry Rice was a perfect match for the 49ers even though he came from a small school.
"It was major (in having an impact on future draft picks from the smaller schools)," he said. "I knew I had a lot of weight on my shoulders. To be the 16th player taken in the first round and to be taken from a school like MVSU was big. But when I first came in, there was a lot of speculation that I wouldn't be able to play pro football because I came from Mississippi Valley State, which was a small school. Then I started putting up numbers and everybody said, 'This guy's for real.' "

While scouts have always looked at virtually every school with a football program, it was -- and still is -- the more prominent schools at the NCAA Division I-A level that got the most attention for many reasons, one of the main ones being the level of competition. However, both Rice and Walsh acknowledged that Rice's drafting and subsequent success probably led teams to re-evaluate how they analyze players coming out of the smaller schools.

"Once Jerry was drafted," Walsh said, "people wanted to make sure they didn't miss someone who might potentially be like him so it brought those schools a little more into prominence again."

Cornerback Ashley Ambrose, a 14-year veteran currently with the New Orleans Saints -- and a fellow MVSU alum -- concurred.

"I think (Rice's draft) did have an impact," Ambrose said. "A lot of people saw his accomplishments and started paying more attention to the people at that level. Once they saw guys like that producing and doing well, it let them take a chance on other guys like me. Jerry's first six years in the league, before I was drafted, he was doing it and his work ethic showed a lot, that these guys work hard to be the best. It really helped guys like me at the smaller schools because it showed our work ethic."

"I had a chance to talk to Jerry," continued Ambrose, "and he told me it's just hard work and dedication. Actually, I think Mississippi Valley State was a good choice for me. There weren't a whole lot of other distractions so I had a lot of time to work on bettering my game."

Steve McNair, the third overall pick in the 1995 NFL Draft, used Rice's experience to maintain his own drive and focus at Alcorn State.

"It motivated me as an individual," he said, "that wherever you go, you can get drafted. He had a great work ethic and proved a lot of people wrong. It helped people look at players from the smaller schools a little harder."

Art Shell, now the NFL's senior vice president of football operations and development, was a product of Maryland State-Eastern Shore (enrollment: 750) before embarking on a Hall of Fame career as a player (1968-1982) and head coach (1989-1994). Shell agrees that Rice's situation surely affected future drafts and outlined one of the main reasons why.

"At that particular time, integration had come a long way," he explained. "So kids who might have gone to those schools were now going to the bigger schools. There were guys before him who were first-round draft choices, like Walter Payton, but Rice put the focus back on those historically black schools."

As for Rice, he was always confident in his own abilities.

"I always felt I could hold my own," he said, "I just didn't know if the scouts or the NFL would take a chance. I knew Walter Payton (the fourth overall pick in 1975 out of Jackson State) was in the league and he was one of the major guys who opened a lot of doors before me. Then, playing in some of the bowl games, I got a chance to put my talent up against the major schools and I knew I had some talent.

"I wish I could play another 20 years."

So do we, Jerry.

[LiL stumppy]

I'm still waiting for the answer to this question.


Oh sorry sir,didn't mean to keep you waiting. I say they're all reaches because of watching them play and in some cases their speed or their hands. No WR other than Calvin is a rounded WR.

[LiL stumppy]

Oh sorry sir,didn't mean to keep you waiting. I say they're all reaches because of watching them play and in some cases their speed or their hands. No WR other than Calvin is a well-rounded WR.

[milkman]

Ok fair enough, but once again. In every aspect, Jarret is no Jerry Rice.

And no one is comparing him to Jerry Rice, but that article completely destroys your argument.

[LiL stumppy]

In one aspect yes. But if we take Jarret in the first round, we will pay the price. If we take him, it better be in the second round.

[milkman]

Oh sorry sir,didn't mean to keep you waiting. I say they're all reaches because of watching them play and in some cases their speed or their hands. No WR other than Calvin is a rounded WR.

That doesn't answer my question.

Are they all reaches simply because you say they are?

[Coogs]

In one aspect yes. But if we take Jarret in the first round, we will pay the price. If we take him, it better be in the second round.

The last article says the 49ers traded their 2nd round pick to the Patriots to trade up to get Rice at 16. They wanted him because he just made plays.

[milkman]

In one aspect yes. But if we take Jarret in the first round, we will pay the price. If we take him, it better be in the second round.

Are you saying that the article only destroys your speed argument?

[LiL stumppy]

Jarret will never ever amount to anything Rice was. And yes, Jarret is still to slow to be a first rounder.

[milkman]

Jarret will never ever amount to anything Rice was. And yes, Jarret is still to slow to be a first rounder.

Your argument has no foundation.

You don't like him.

But the guy is simply a player that makes plays.

Jerry Rice was too slow to be a first rounder cause he was slower.

[LiL stumppy]

No,I like him, just not in the first round.

Oh and look here if you were thinking about Robert Meachem, the release section.

http://www.newerascouting.com/index.php?c=20&a=21

[milkman]

No,I like him, just not in the first round.

Fine, but just tell us that.
Don't make points that you can't suuport.

Oh and look here if you were thinking about Robert Meachem, the release section.

http://www.newerascouting.com/index.php?c=20&a=21

Yeah, what's your point?

[Mecca]

This debate..........

This is one of the deeper WR years, saying only Calvin Johnson is worthy of a 1st round pick is funny. But if you really believe that then NO player at any position is worthy of 23 because the WR's are 99% likely to be the best players on the board when we pick.

To turn around and pimp people like Joe Staley or Guards then say those WR's aren't worthy of 1st round is basically saying "I don't like this position so I'm going to say the players are worse" then you wonder why people are telling you that you aren't making any points.

Also Keyshawn Johnson is still in the league and still productive and guess what.......he's never been fast and isn't fast at all now if he runs any faster than 4.9 I'd be surprised.

[Mecca]

:hmmm:

Do you have him confused with someone else?









That's just the tip of the iceberg, I can't dedicate the time it would take to post all of that BS.....


Predicting the draft is a total crapshoot.........obviously anyone who makes those predictions like I have is going to be wrong atleast half the time.

I've been right a number of times too............Like I said Ko Simpson was better than Pollard and up to now that's true. Bringing up things from last years draft it's also to soon for that because alot of the players I liked were very raw and needed 2-3 years. While Hali was widely regarded as a near finished product so it's not surprising he's better right now.....but the question is, how much better will he get?

[Eric]

Espn radio expert scout guy right now had Chiefs taking WR. D.Bowe.

D.Bowes profile on nfldraftcountdown= pathetic. :Lin:

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/wr/dwaynebowe.html

[Mecca]

Espn radio expert scout guy right now had Chiefs taking WR. D.Bowe.

Was it Todd McShay?

[Eric]

Someone else.

John Clayton on right now.

Said no news on Trent Green trade.

[the Talking Can]

no OL or CB that will be available to us at #23 is BAA over Jarrett...

this is a repeat of Hali last year....hopefully we haven't already forgot that....

jesus lord, Staley over Jarrett?.....so much for rebuilding...

[ChiefsCountry]

Espn radio expert scout guy right now had Chiefs taking WR. D.Bowe.

D.Bowes profile on nfldraftcountdown= pathetic. :Lin:

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/wr/dwaynebowe.html

Watch video on him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i25OYYTMWXY

He is a football player. I wasnt really sold on him too much till I saw some film. Blocks, not afraid to go over the middle, and has decent hands. Yeah he has lots of drops but I think that is a correctable problem.

[bdeg]

Watch video on him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i25OYYTMWXY

He is a football player. I wasnt really sold on him too much till I saw some film. Blocks, not afraid to go over the middle, and has decent hands. Yeah he has lots of drops but I think that is a correctable problem.
If it was so easily corrected do you really think the LSU coaches wouldn't have fixed it? I know he got lasik and from what I've heard he has been better catching the ball since then.

HOWEVER, I hear that a lot. Everyone seems to think any coach can teach a guy to catch, but that's just not the case. And if it were nobody would ever drop a pass. Hands are very important, which is part of why I'd rather have Jarrett.

[Mecca]

Todd McShay loves Bowe, he thinks he's the 2nd best WR to Johnson. I think the reason teams think Bowe's catching problem is correctable is most of his drops are attributed to the fact that he body catches to often not so much having bad hands.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Predicting the draft is a total crapshoot.........obviously anyone who makes those predictions like I have is going to be wrong atleast half the time.

I've been right a number of times too............Like I said Ko Simpson was better than Pollard and up to now that's true. Bringing up things from last years draft it's also to soon for that because alot of the players I liked were very raw and needed 2-3 years. While Hali was widely regarded as a near finished product so it's not surprising he's better right now.....but the question is, how much better will he get?

Dude, I'm busting your chops.

And regarding the WR's, I just hope that if we go that way in R1 it's either Meacham or Jarrett.

But I'm thinking we're trading down if we can find a partner, taking Harrell @ 23 or a CB.

No telling what's still on the board when we pick. I'm sure there will be some surprises on Saturday....

[ct]

Jerry Rice was a stud and he wasnt the fastest guy.

Jerry Rice was one of the cleanest cutting route runners evah!! And while his 40 times were 4.6, he also wasn't playing vs CBs running 4.3-4.4s back in the day either. I don't care how many times this is brought up, this analogy don't fit.

[LiL stumppy]

This debate..........

This is one of the deeper WR years, saying only Calvin Johnson is worthy of a 1st round pick is funny. But if you really believe that then NO player at any position is worthy of 23 because the WR's are 99% likely to be the best players on the board when we pick.

To turn around and pimp people like Joe Staley or Guards then say those WR's aren't worthy of 1st round is basically saying "I don't like this position so I'm going to say the players are worse" then you wonder why people are telling you that you aren't making any points.

Also Keyshawn Johnson is still in the league and still productive and guess what.......he's never been fast and isn't fast at all now if he runs any faster than 4.9 I'd be surprised.

LMAO where does it say I don't like the WR position? They are saying that Jerry Rice was slow and was still the best in the NFL ever, then they say that Jarret can can do it if Rice can. In a sence, that IS comparing Jarret to Rice. Which is absolutly redicoulous. I don't know if you watched much football back then, but very few CB's were as fast as they are today. The college and NFL mind-set these days is speed. Alot of the players a decade ago wanted to be the bigest and the strongest on the field.But things have changed since then. I have talked to MANY college coaches and they have all said one word over and over and over again. SPEED. In that case, why take a WR that gets shut down and has average hands, or a WR that runs a 4.62(Jarret) or a 4.57(Ginn)? What would be the point in that? IMO rebuilding a team starts from the inside out, and its no secret that we are losing every worthy O-lineman we ever had, with the exeption of 1 or 2. Sammie Parker is young, he has time to develop. Have you guys not heard about the two young WR's the coaches are liking? Do you guys not relize that we have the BEST TE in the game? That is at the level of a stud number 1 WR? I would rather trade up and pick of a Joe Thomes,or trade back and take a solid OL/WR, that reach for a WR or OL and have no chance to pick up the other position with a solid player.

[Mecca]

No matter how good Gonzalez is he does not take away the need of a WR. Gonzalez is aging we really shouldn't be trying to get away with that anymore.

By the way......Ginn is a legit track guy who runs low 4.3's when healthy. Bringing up the 40 he ran when injured is stupid. Not to mention he didn't run a 4.57 Todd McShay reported he ran no higher than 4.49 in his worst time.

[LiL stumppy]

There was a thread that stated he ran a 4.57 at tryout for the Chiefs. But even better, and injured WR in the first round. I really hope your kidding. Why can't we still use him?He is still performing, I dont see him gettin slower and his performance dropping.

[Mecca]

How about.....we have probably the absolute worst group of WR's in the entire league? There's a reason when that line broke down we couldn't throw the ball....there's a reason out QB's were holding the ball forever when passing. It's called our WR's are good enough to get seperated very quickly and without a great line it isn't going to work.

This isn't the same team it was, we aren't going to have a line like that so we need better playmakers.

[milkman]

Jerry Rice was one of the cleanest cutting route runners evah!! And while his 40 times were 4.6, he also wasn't playing vs CBs running 4.3-4.4s back in the day either. I don't care how many times this is brought up, this analogy don't fit.

Deion Sanders ring a bell?

[Tribal Warfare]

Deion Sanders ring a bell?


I'll up you Daryll Green

[milkman]

LMAO where does it say I don't like the WR position? They are saying that Jerry Rice was slow and was still the best in the NFL ever, then they say that Jarret can can do it if Rice can. In a sence, that IS comparing Jarret to Rice. Which is absolutly redicoulous. I don't know if you watched much football back then, but very few CB's were as fast as they are today. The college and NFL mind-set these days is speed. Alot of the players a decade ago wanted to be the bigest and the strongest on the field.But things have changed since then. I have talked to MANY college coaches and they have all said one word over and over and over again. SPEED. In that case, why take a WR that gets shut down and has average hands, or a WR that runs a 4.62(Jarret) or a 4.57(Ginn)? What would be the point in that? IMO rebuilding a team starts from the inside out, and its no secret that we are losing every worthy O-lineman we ever had, with the exeption of 1 or 2. Sammie Parker is young, he has time to develop. Have you guys not heard about the two young WR's the coaches are liking? Do you guys not relize that we have the BEST TE in the game? That is at the level of a stud number 1 WR? I would rather trade up and pick of a Joe Thomes,or trade back and take a solid OL/WR, that reach for a WR or OL and have no chance to pick up the other position with a solid player.

Speed has been sought after at the WR position since the invention of the forward pass.

No one is saying that Jarrett can do it simply because Rice did it.

We've only shown you the flaw in your argument against Jarrett by citing Rice's 40, which was a 4.7.

We are saying Jarrett can do it because he's a playmaker, speed notwithstanding.

And don't tell us how things were back then.
I've been watching football since before your daddy was a gleam in his daddy's eyes.

[milkman]

I'll up you Daryll Green

Dale Carter.

[LiL stumppy]

Actually speed wasn't as big back then as it is now. Because of a little invention called steroids. If Jarret doesn't get faster he wont be a good # 1. Like I said earlier, if you want to draft a possesion reciver in the first round, go for it.

[milkman]

Actually speed wasn't as big back then as it is now. Because of a little invention called steroids. If Jarret doesn't get faster he wont be a good # 1. Like I said earlier, if you want to draft a possesion reciver in the first round, go for it.

:rolleyes:

You just make this shit up as you go.

[milkman]

Anyone remember 40 times for Anquan Boldin and Hines Ward?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Anyone remember 40 times for Anquan Boldin and Hines Ward?

I do.....

Boldin runs over 4.7 and I think Ward runs a low 4.6.....

I also remember one being a ROY and one being a SB MVP.

[milkman]

I do.....

Boldin runs over 4.7 and I think Ward runs a low 4.6.....

I also remember one being a ROY and one being a SB MVP.

But....but.....LiL stumpy says that receivers with that kind of (lack of) speed can't be playmakers in the NFL.


I knew that neither timed out faster than a 4.6 or so, but couldn't remeber exact numbers.

[LiL stumppy]

I didn't say they cant be playmakers, I said I dont want to draft one in the first round. We have other needs we need to fill first.

[LiL stumppy]

Someone please show me a link to Boldin's 40 time

[htismaqe]

Boldin ran a SHOCKING 4.75.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2003/draft/players/6726.html

And I found something that deserves it's own thread...stay tuned!

[Chiefnj2]

Pro Day Notes from a few years ago:

Larry Johnson (6-1, 222, 4.43/40, 4.28/SS, 7.06/3-cone, 41"/V, 10’4"/LJ) | Penn State. Larry Johnson looked very good running and catching the ball.

Tyrone Calico (6-3¾, 223) | Middle Tennessee State. Calico, who ran a 4.34 40-time at the NFL Combine, impressed scouts during receiving drills at pro day. He dropped 2 out of the 50 passes thrown to him.

Anquan Boldin (6-0 5/8, 218, 4.60/40) | Florida State. Boldin’s 40-time at the NFL Combine was 4.70-4.75.

Terrell Suggs (6-3 3/8, 257, 4.86/40, 4.33/SS, 7.48/3-cone, 19/BP, 32½"/V, 9’0"/LJ) | Arizona State. Suggs disappointed scouts during his pro day and then pulled a hamstring.

Osi Umenyiora (6-3, 278, 4.68/40, 4.33/SS, 24/BP, 38"/V, 9’9"/LJ) | Troy State. Umenyiora ran on very wet grass and scouts took .15 seconds off his times.

Jimmy Wilkerson (6-2 7/8, 270, 4.73/40) | Oklahoma. Wilkerson averaged 4.73 in his 40-yard dash times indoors on a tarp during his school sponsored pro day. Wilkerson's 40-times were better than his times at the Combine.

Julian Battle (6-2 1/8, 204, 4.44/40, 14/BP, 35½"/V, 9’11"/LJ) | Tennessee. The Buffalo Bills are looking at Battle as a cornerback prospect.

[milkman]

I didn't say they cant be playmakers, I said I dont want to draft one in the first round. We have other needs we need to fill first.

This quote here suggests you don't believe that they can.

[QUOTE=LiL stumpy]Um it is a huge part if it. Please tell me one stud in the NFL who runs over a 4.55. NNOOOOOO ONE. Speed is HUGE for a WR. If we draft Barret, say hello to an average posestion(sp?) receiver.

This quote also makes the same suggestion.

Actually speed wasn't as big back then as it is now. Because of a little invention called steroids. If Jarret doesn't get faster he wont be a good # 1. Like I said earlier, if you want to draft a possesion reciver in the first round, go for it.

While it's true that you never said receivers who run slow 40s can't be playmakers, you have clearly made that implication.

And your "other needs" argument doesn't wash either.

WR is a huge need for this team, and WR will almost certainly be the best player available.

The reason this team sucks is because they wasted years of drafts picking for need, rather than picking BPA.

This draft, they not only have the opportunity to pick the BPA, that BPA fills a huge need.

And don't even try to tell me we have Parker.
He's a scrub.
He's had 3 years to develop, and he still hasn't produced.

And Don't tell me about Hannon and Webb.
It'd be great if they do turn out to be something, but we've seen enough of the Haynes and Ted Whites and Richard Smiths on this team that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that you just can't rely on those types to ever amount to anything.

Every one of your arguments against WR has been proven wrong.
It's time to simply admit that you don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about.

[LiL stumppy]

Um I know what I am talking about. Sure there are slow WR's that have performed.Theres still a chance he wont. We have lost our top two OL in the past two years.One is aging and the other one may not even be playing the same position this year,and another is on the verge of retirement. We don't have deph, or skill besides Waters. We have a LT that never made it in Miami, a second year center who is un-proven. Tell me why I shouldn't think that we need solid deph at this position? And were not going to get that in the 5th,6th.and 7th round.

[milkman]

Um I know what I am talking about. Sure there are slow WR's that have performed. We have lot our two top OL in the past two years, one is aging and the other one may not even be playing the same position this year,and the other is on the verge of retirement. We don't have deph, or skill besides Waters. We have a LT that never made it in Miami, a second year center who is un-proven. Tell me why I shouldn't think that we need solid deph at this position? And were not going to get that in the 5th,6th.and 7th round.

Pay attention junior.

No one is saying there isn't need on the O-Line.

There's also need on the DL.

There's still further need at CB.

Hell there's so many holes on this roster it's like swiss cheese.

But the fact is, any O-Lineman, and D-Lineman picked at 23 will be a reach.

This isn't just my opinion, it's the opinion of almost any draft expert out there.

Our best value at that spot will be at either WR, CB or LB.

It's that simple.

[LiL stumppy]

Maybe so. I would rather trade up or down and get a OL with our first pick. Thats just my opinion.

[milkman]

Maybe so. I would rather trade up or down and get a OL with our first pick. Thats just my opinion.

See, I have no problem with that idea (except we can't afford to trade up far enough to get either Joe Thomas or Levi Brown).

[ChiefsCountry]

Maybe so. I would rather trade up or down and get a OL with our first pick. Thats just my opinion.

So you want a 1 person draft.

[htismaqe]

Maybe so. I would rather trade up or down and get a OL with our first pick. Thats just my opinion.

No. No. No.

[Mecca]

He's overvaluing OL to a ridiculous extent........we have far to many holes to do that. We aren't in position to draft OL in the first round this year, this is more than a 1 year project.

Larry Fitzgeralds 40-4.67
Chad Johnsons-4.57

Yea they suck.....

[LiL stumppy]

Never said that sucked for one thing. I dont know if you relize,but our LT gave up a shit ton of sacks last year. And who do we have to replace him? A washed-up tackle from Miami who never made it. Our best Guard is retired now, our starting center in thinking of retirment. Now on the other hand, we have seen many post where coaches are exctied about Webb and the other guy, and expect things from them this year. Yea, we def need a WR.

[LiL stumppy]

So you want a 1 person draft.

How is trading down and accumulating many draft picks a 1 man draft?

[Mecca]

How is trading down and accumulating many draft picks a 1 man draft?

You just endorsed trading up for a LT........

At 23 those LT's are no better than what we have and a guard is a shitty value for round 1.

[LiL stumppy]

Yea, I would rather have a couple good players 1 good players and alot of projects.

[Mecca]

You are just overvaluing lineman at our pick. 23 is taking the best that's there not reaching because by god we have a need.

[LiL stumppy]

HAHAH things are getting better for our o-line!!

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=3018215&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

[htismaqe]

HAHAH things are getting better for our o-line!!

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=3018215&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

Increasing the need still doesn't make it right to reach...

[LiL stumppy]

Wow, trade up or down, once again.