buffalo bills L.johnson or M.turner

[blackhawk]

for 1st and 3rd larry is a better back than m.turner

“Six teams are still very interested. I can only tell you two, Buffalo and Tennessee, because they don't care if it's known. I'm sworn to secrecy on the others. They're trying to stay under the radar. A lot of people are scared to death to let it out. I'm amazed this is going on, but I told them I'd only verify if you come out. Teams love me because of that. I tell them I'd like to have a 1 and a 3 in '07. You guys decide what it's worth.”

Turner has visited and worked out for Buffalo and Tennessee, who for some ridiculous reason allowed their most productive runners to leave after the season. So they need a back, and there aren't many available in this draft – perhaps none with Turner's ability.

[Mr. Laz]

who said this?


that said ..... i would trade LJ to buffalo for their 1st and 3rd this year in a heartbeat.

[the Talking Can]

for Turner?

crazy....

[Frankie]

who said this?


that said ..... i would trade LJ to buffalo for their 1st and 3rd this year in a heartbeat.
My sentiment exactly (on both points). What a dumb way to post a thread. No offense, blackhawk.

[chagrin]

blackhawk is becoming the "Ismail Ax" of this forum. Dude, threads about LJ every few minutes doesn't make it easier to understand

[blackhawk]

Chargers General Manager A.J. Smith
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20070417-9999-1s17canepa.html

[chagrin]

Besides, LJ would certainly fight a trade to that wasteland, he wants to play in NY but not Buffalo, New York

[Wile_E_Coyote]

ahhhhhh So King Carl is trying to dilute any Turner trade deal by offering up the possibility of a LJ trade

~W.E.C. slow learner

[ChiefsCountry]

Dude put the link in your articles the first time.

[Mecca]

Anyone who gives up a top 15 pick for a RB these days is dumb........

[Marco Polo]

You would take Buffalo's 1st and 3rd for LJ? I'd want another player or high draft pick for that.

[chagrin]

Anyone who gives up a top 15 pick for a RB these days is dumb........

Are you joking or being serious?

[Chiefnj]

Would anyone trade LJ to Buffalo for their 2nd and 3rd round picks???

[Brock]

Anyone who gives up a top 15 pick for a RB these days is dumb........

Well, somebody is going to this year.

[Codered]

I'd have to agree. Runningbacks for the most part have been pretty easy to come by. A lot of teams have two quality backs these days. If the Bills were smart and that desperate for a Runningback they should sit back and see if Peterson gets past the Browns and make a trade with the Redskins to move up 6 spots.

The Redskins want more picks and that would cost them much less then LJ or Turner.

[Frazod]

Besides, LJ would certainly fight a trade to that wasteland, he wants to play in NY but not Buffalo, New York
I've always found it ironic that the Bills are the only NFL team that actually plays in New York.

Somehow I doubt if that will impress Larry, though. He'd scream bloody murder about being exiled to that frozen shithole. And I wouldn't blame him one bit.

[Mecca]

Are you joking or being serious?

I'm dead serious, if you trade a top 15 pick for a RB already in the league with wear on his body, it isn't very bright.

Marshall Faulk went for a 2 and a 5, and LJ ain't no Marshall Faulk. No offense to the guys opinion but if Buffalo really offered their 1 and their 3 the Chiefs should take it in a millisecond that trade is 1000 times better for us than them.

[Brock]

I'm dead serious, if you trade a top 15 pick for a RB already in the league with wear on his body, it isn't very bright.

I don't see how it's any worse than drafting Adrian Peterson.

[chagrin]

I'm dead serious, if you trade a top 15 pick for a RB already in the league with wear on his body, it isn't very bright.

Marshall Faulk went for a 2 and a 5, and LJ ain't no Marshall Faulk. No offense to the guys opinion but if Buffalo really offered their 1 and their 3 the Chiefs should take it in a millisecond that trade is 1000 times better for us than them.


I just couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic or not, that's all.

[chagrin]

I don't see how it's any worse than drafting Adrian Peterson.

He had more than the collarbone yes? Didn't he also break his leg?

[Mecca]

He had more than the collarbone yes? Didn't he also break his leg?

He broke his collarbone and had a high ankle sprain.

Petersons younger and doesn't have a 400 carry season, also he won't be making as much money as LJ is going to want.

[Mr. Laz]

He broke his collarbone and had a high ankle sprain.

Petersons younger and doesn't have a 400 carry season, also he won't be making as much money as LJ is going to want.
and you don't know whether peterson can do it or not.



c'mon ..... if Buffalo draft Peterson and then trade him 1 for 1 to the KC Chiefs for larry johnson everyone would say that the Chiefs got ripped off.

[Brock]

and you don't know whether peterson can do it or not.

he may spend half the season on IR, who the hell knows? With Johnson or somebody like that, you have a guy who's proven he can do it.

[Mr. Laz]

he may spend half the season on IR, who the hell knows? With Johnson or somebody like that, you have a guy who's proven he can do it.
exactly ...


If Buffalo is really planning on taking Peterson with the 5th pick ..... it would easily be worth to them to trade that pick for larry Johnson.

even with the heavy carry load last year, LJ is worth more than an banged up RB draftee.


The Chiefs are rebuilding ... LJ for Buffalo's 1st and 3rd works for us. It's also a good deal for Buffalo imo. We get draft picks ... they get a proven RB instead of a projected RB in the draft.

[Mecca]

and you don't know whether peterson can do it or not.



c'mon ..... if Buffalo draft Peterson and then trade him 1 for 1 to the KC Chiefs for larry johnson everyone would say that the Chiefs got ripped off.

Peterson won't be there at 12 anyway.........the trade would still be alot better for us than than them.

[Mecca]

exactly ...


If Buffalo is really planning on taking Peterson with the 5th pick ..... it would easily be worth to them to trade that pick for larry Johnson.

even with the heavy carry load last year, LJ is worth more than an banged up RB draftee.


The Chiefs are rebuilding ... LJ for Buffalo's 1st and 3rd works for us. It's also a good deal for Buffalo imo. We get draft picks ... they get a proven RB instead of a projected RB in the draft.

It may make sense because LJ is proven but there are problems.......1 is giving up picks for a RB with NFL mileage, alot of it. The other is giving picks to Washington or Arizona to move........

Buffalo is also a rebuilding team, Adrian Peterson has a better chance of still playing in 6 years than LJ does.

[htismaqe]

Buffalo is also a rebuilding team, Adrian Peterson has a better chance of still playing in 6 years than LJ does.

Bingo.

[Codered]

I think the Giants are a better dancing partner for the Chiefs and LJ anyways. The 20 range makes a trade more likely to happen and they are closer to being a playoff type team.

That could give the Chiefs the Ammo they need to move up and take an impact player in the first like Okoye.

[GoTrav]

He had more than the collarbone yes? Didn't he also break his leg?

Michael Bush broke his leg and was considered a 1st round pick prior to that, according to some sources.

[Mr. Laz]

Peterson won't be there at 12 anyway.........the trade would still be alot better for us than than them.
whatever ...... then the vikings


the point is proven vrs draftee


which has move value?


Larry Johnson is easily worth more than Peterson

[Mecca]

whatever ...... then the vikings


the point is proven vrs draftee


which has move value?


Larry Johnson is easily worth more than Peterson

418 carries tell NFL GM's different.

[htismaqe]

whatever ...... then the vikings


the point is proven vrs draftee


which has move value?


Larry Johnson is easily worth more than Peterson

No, he's really not. Especially not in draft picks.

[Codered]

It's almost funny how much value draft picks hold compared to some of the already proven fairly young stars of the NFL. You don't see first round picks moved for players very often. Especially top fifteen picks like we were talking about earlier.

[Mr. Laz]

No, he's really not. Especially not in draft picks.
then we disagree completely

[Valiant]

I think the Giants are a better dancing partner for the Chiefs and LJ anyways. The 20 range makes a trade more likely to happen and they are closer to being a playoff type team.

That could give the Chiefs the Ammo they need to move up and take an impact player in the first like Okoye.


Would two firsts 20 and 23 be enough to break the top ten to get Okoye IF THAT WERE TO HAPPEN??? Most drafts I have seen him being picked anywhere from 6th-15th...

But honestly there is no way Carl will ever do this... But it sure would be my dream scenario...

LJ for Jacobs/1st

20 & 23rd to move up IF Okoye is still there...



















But it will never happen...

[Valiant]

then we disagree completely


It depends on the GM and which team you are... If you work for the Skins then yes players are worth more then picks...

For the most part any other team no they are not...

[Codered]

Valiant,

20 + 23 = 1510 value looking at the charts. that could get you to 7th value wise.

[chop]

It may make sense because LJ is proven but there are problems.......1 is giving up picks for a RB with NFL mileage, alot of it. The other is giving picks to Washington or Arizona to move........

Buffalo is also a rebuilding team, Adrian Peterson has a better chance of still playing in 6 years than LJ does.

Most posts I read of yours gives me the impression that you think every player, college or on another team, is better than anyone that the Chiefs have.

LJ had one major carry year and now he has alot of NFL mileage. He only started nine games the year before and sat on the bench before the year before that. I'm not a homer by any means but how can you say that Adrian Peterson is more valuable than the #2 back in the NFL? He had ONE season where he carried the ball way too many times. That doesn't make him washed up or inferior to a back that has never played one down in the NFL.

[Mr. Laz]

if draft picks are so valuable then the Chiefs made a tremendous error when they traded the 12th pick of the draft for Trent Green?

i mean cause any possible player drafted at 12 would have more value than a journeyman QB coming off of a bad knee injury.

[chop]

New England gave away a 2nd and a 7th for a #3 WR/KR.

[chop]

The Chiefs got great value by using the sixth pick in the draft to select Ryan Sims.

[Mr. Laz]

denver gave a 1st to Green Bay for Jevon Walker 2 years ago

[Mr. Laz]

a 3rd round pick for willie roaf was also a tremendous error ...... evidently.

[htismaqe]

if draft picks are so valuable then the Chiefs made a tremendous error when they traded the 12th pick of the draft for Trent Green?

i mean cause any possible player drafted at 12 would have more value than a journeyman QB coming off of a bad knee injury.

Tremendous error? Those are strong words.

It wasn't a good investment. You should get more than five years out of the #12 pick in the draft.

[Codered]

denver gave a 1st to Green Bay for Jevon Walker 2 years ago

It was actually an early 2nd rounder.

[Mecca]

It's about the position and what you value. RB is the deepest most talent rich position in the league. Teams do not feel it is worth it to trade a first rounder for one.....it's not LJ it's the position. Seattle shopped Alexander and got no takers.

It's also the idea of paying a proven player a big contract when most teams feel a rookie can step right in cheaper and do if not the same close to the same job.

[htismaqe]

denver gave a 1st to Green Bay for Jevon Walker 2 years ago

Denver traded for Walker last year. They might be able to get that value out of him, it's not unfathomable that he could play 10 more years. Larry Johnson will be lucky to play THREE, let alone 10.

[Mecca]

Denver traded for Walker last year. They might be able to get that value out of him, it's not unfathomable that he could play 10 more years. Larry Johnson will be lucky to play THREE, let alone 10.

Yep.....I wasn't a fan of the Green deal the #12 pick for a guy who was 30 at the time to me wasn't a good deal. But then Vermiel built the whole team around 30 year old players putting us in this spot.....

[Mr. Laz]

It's about the position and what you value. RB is the deepest most talent rich position in the league. Teams do not feel it is worth it to trade a first rounder for one.....it's not LJ it's the position. Seattle shopped Alexander and got no takers.

It's also the idea of paying a proven player a big contract when most teams feel a rookie can step right in cheaper and do if not the same close to the same job.
i don't believe that for 1 second


next year the if the chiefs are looking to trade jared allen you will say he's not worth anything either.

[Mecca]

i don't believe that for 1 second


next year the if the chiefs are looking to trade jared allen you will say he's not worth anything either.

Defensive End is a little different.......there's a reason DE per average is one of the highest paid positions and RB is the lowest.......ask the Colts how much they missed Edge James.....oh yea.

[Chiefnj]

The Chiefs are rebuilding ... LJ for Buffalo's 1st and 3rd works for us. It's also a good deal for Buffalo imo. We get draft picks ... they get a proven RB instead of a projected RB in the draft.

Buffalo is rebuilding as well. They got a 3rd and 7th this year and a 3rd next year for McGahee. I really don't think they will consider giving up the #12 pick when they have big holes on their defense at MLB and CB when they have a chance to draft Willis or the best CB on the board. Maybe a 2 and 3 since they have an extra 3rd, but no way do I see them giving up a top 15 pick for a player that gets easily disgruntled. That's why they dealt McGahee.

[the Talking Can]

you can't complain about the Green trade...QB is most important player on the team, and the position has the highest value, and Green excelled...there are lot's of first rounders who don't amount to squat...

[Mr. Laz]

Defensive End is a little different.......there's a reason DE per average is one of the highest paid positions and RB is the lowest.......ask the Colts how much they missed Edge James.....oh yea.
then there is no way we should give LJ a big contract


run him into the ground and select another one of these easily found good running backs.

[Mecca]

then there is no way we should give LJ a big contract


run him into the ground and select another one of these easily found good running backs.

You'll get no argument from me on that......

[Brock]

By mecca's logic Michael Turner is worth more than Larry Johnson.

[Mecca]

By mecca's logic Michael Turner is worth more than Larry Johnson.

No he's not....the Chargers have smartly masked his weaknesses by not playing him much.

I don't believe RB's as a whole in the NFL are worth much in trades. While teams may not trade for them they'll draft them though preferring the younger less mileage guys, I believe WR and RB are 2 heavily drafted positions in the 1st 2 rounds.

I wouldn't give an RB a 2nd contract unless he was special like Faulk/Tomlinson can do it all extremely well versatile.

[htismaqe]

i don't believe that for 1 second


next year the if the chiefs are looking to trade jared allen you will say he's not worth anything either.

Jared Allen is worth ALOT more than LJ.

[Blindside58]

Per Rotoworld... This topic may have new legs Lt. Dan!

Apr. 24 - 7:10 pm et


NFL Network's Adam Schefter confirms the Chiefs have had "general trade discussions" regarding Larry Johnson.

Kansas City has reportedly spoken with the Browns, Bills, Titans, and Packers, though the Chiefs deny that any of the talks have been "specific." We suspect the Chiefs are willing to deal Johnson for multiple picks, and not necessarily a first-rounder, to address their long list of needs.

[Buck]

Turner would be just as good as LJ on the Chiefs.

[Brock]

Turner would be just as good as LJ on the Chiefs.

Idiotic.

[Buck]

Idiotic.

Thats me. But seriously he would. Give any RB 400+ carries and see what happens.

http://www.wellsvilledaily.com/articles/2007/04/20/sports/sports03.txt

Marv Levy says Turner is most likely a no go.

[penchief]

I heard on Sirius that this was going on. As much as I love LJ, I love the idea of rebuilding quickly with the kind of players that Herm likes. An LJ trade would have to bring at least three picks, IMO (#1, #3, #3). And yes, he's worth it.

I understand both sides of this argument but some people take their opinions to the extreme when downgrading Johnson's worth. He hasn't been used properly yet. Yes, Johnson is a power back and can carry the rock on 3rd and 2 with the best of them. But, IMO, that is a gross misuse of someone that is as deadly in open space as he is. No other running back has the speed, power, and open-field vision that he has.

There should be more swing-passes, draw plays, and screens. He breaks tacklers down with the best of them. In short, there are very few home run threats in this league, let alone any who can touch the ball 450 times. We just need to stop running him into a wall and start getting him the ball in the kind of ways that that accentuate his rare talents, IMO. I firmly believe that the best kickoff returner on this team is Larry Johnson. Kickoff returns are perfect for his combination of vision and speed put to use in the most efficient way. He is the anti-Dante.

Anyway, I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. We haven't even used him in the most effective way yet. If we did, he's easily capable of 2500 total yards and a slew of tds, and with a lot less physical wear and tear, IMO.

[Valiant]

I heard on Sirius that this was going on. As much as I love LJ, I love the idea of rebuilding quickly with the kind of players that Herm likes. An LJ trade would have to bring at least three picks, IMO (#1, #3, #3). And yes, he's worth it.

I understand both sides of this argument but some people take their opinions to the extreme when downgrading Johnson's worth. He hasn't been used properly yet. Yes, Johnson is a power back and can carry the rock on 3rd and 2 with the best of them. But, IMO, that is a gross misuse of someone that is as deadly in open space as he is. No other running back has the speed, power, and open-field vision that he has.

There should be more swing-passes, draw plays, and screens. He breaks tacklers down with the best of them. In short, there are very few home run threats in this league, let alone any who can touch the ball 450 times. We just need to stop running him into a wall and start getting him the ball in the kind of ways that that accentuate his rare talents, IMO. I firmly believe that the best kickoff returner on this team is Larry Johnson. Kickoff returns are perfect for his combination of vision and speed put to use in the most efficient way. He is the anti-Dante.

Anyway, I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. We haven't even used him in the most effective way yet. If we did, he's easily capable of 2500 total yards and a slew of tds, and with a lot less physical wear and tear, IMO.


I don't think anyone would argue with you.. But the problem is HERM, he wants to run straight at you... Hell that is why he wants to get rid of Weigman and Waters, he wants more super fat ass lineman to run straight ahead.. Not lineman that can move on sweeps and counters..

Herm is a retarded jackass that wants to use playcalling from the early 90's... Herm wants to get LJ pounded for 3 yards, not let him take on some defenders ala the way LT ran last year or the way Denver's line blocks(without the chop blocks)...

[htismaqe]

I don't think anyone would argue with you.. But the problem is HERM, he wants to run straight at you... Hell that is why he wants to get rid of Weigman and Waters, he wants more super fat ass lineman to run straight ahead.. Not lineman that can move on sweeps and counters..

Herm is a retarded jackass that wants to use playcalling from the early 90's... Herm wants to get LJ pounded for 3 yards, not let him take on some defenders ala the way LT ran last year or the way Denver's line blocks(without the chop blocks)...

Did you EVER watch the Jets play?

[chop]

Did you EVER watch the Jets play?

I hear that Herm is going to have Paul Hackett come in and help with the offensive play calling.

[Buck]

Did you EVER watch the Jets play?

He does know a lot more about football than you, he probably watched every Jets game while Herm was there. You better watch what you say.

[htismaqe]

He does know a lot more about football than you, he probably watched every Jets game while Herm was there. You better watch what you say.

Kissing up to him because he's OWNING you in the other thread?

[Buck]

Kissing up to him because he's OWNING you in the other thread?

He's owning nothing. He keeps contradicting himself, but thats cool.

[blackhawk]

Bills | Kansas City shopping L. Johnson to team
Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:08:44 -0700

Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports the Kansas City Chiefs are shopping RB Larry Johnson to the Buffalo Bills.

[blackhawk]

Packers | Kansas City shopping L. Johnson to team
Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:08:05 -0700

Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports the Kansas City Chiefs are shopping RB Larry Johnson to the Green Bay Packers.

[blackhawk]

Titans | Kansas City shopping L. Johnson to team
Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:01:25 -0700

Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports the Kansas City Chiefs are shopping RB Larry Johnson to the Tennessee Titans.

[Halfcan]

Titans | Kansas City shopping L. Johnson to team
Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:01:25 -0700

Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports the Kansas City Chiefs are shopping RB Larry Johnson to the Tennessee Titans.

Better start a thread!

[Frankie]

The Chiefs got great value by using the sixth pick in the draft to select Ryan Sims.
We had to trade UP to the 6th position too! :banghead:

[Frankie]

LJ for Jacobs/1st...
I know I should know who Jacobs is, but I'm drawing a blank on him. Help!

[Frankie]

I hear that Herm is going to have Paul Hackett come in and help with the offensive play calling.
Bite your toungue. Who is Paul Hackett when there's Raye out there.