F*ck you petroleum industry.

[JimNasium]

Okay, I've got that off my chest.

[Bowser]

Donger will be along shortly to chide you.

[JimNasium]

Donger will be along shortly to chide you.
F*ck you Donger. Okay, I've got that off my chest.

[Pierce]

Yeah, f*ck you big oil. I guess this is a capitalistic society though.

Oh well...too bad the electric car died a swift death :(

[JimNasium]

Yeah, f*ck you big oil. I guess this is a capitalistic society though.

Oh well...too bad the electric car died a swift death :(
F*ck you electric car industry. Okay, I've got that off my chest.

[Bugeater]

THAT'S RIGHT! **** YOU AND YOUR MUTHER****IN' $3.00/GAL GAS!

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Jim sure cusses a lot lately.

[JimNasium]

Jim sure cusses a lot lately.
F*ck you beer me. Okay, I've got that off my chest.

[siberian khatru]

Why don't you get that load of man-goo off your chest, too?

[JimNasium]

Why don't you get that load of man-goo off your chest, too?
I like you so I won't curse at you.

[ROYC75]

What's up Jim, Jenny got ya cut off ?

Yep, the big oil companies have us by the balls .......

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I like you so I won't curse at you.
Thanks.


:harumph:

[JimNasium]

Thanks.


:harumph:
I don't like you.....I love you.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I don't like you.....I love you.
Sometimes Lloyd you do something so stupid... now you do something like this...................................... and TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF!!!!



(or something like that)

[Donger]

Okay, I've got that off my chest.

What's your issue with the petroleum industry?

[Donger]

Donger will be along shortly to chide you.

Not unless he gets all emotional and irrational.

[JimNasium]

Not unless he gets all emotional and irrational.
I'm not emotional nor irrational.....just poorer and ****ing angry.

[noa]

Not unless he gets all emotional and irrational.


ROFL Is that because you only pick on women?

[Simplex3]

Oh well...too bad the electric car died a swift death :(
Yes, it's really too bad:

http://www.teslamotors.com/

.

[old_geezer]

Not unless he gets all emotional and irrational.


Doesn't "F*ck you petroleum industry" qualify as emotional? Just asking o:-)

[Simplex3]

Wow, the EV market really *IS* dead.

http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com/

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/x7Wcs4BpbTY"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/x7Wcs4BpbTY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[Simplex3]

PS, any of you guys that want to buy me one of these, I'm cool with it:

http://www.hybridtechnologies.com/products.php?sec=1&id=3

http://www.hybridtechnologies.com/flashpopups/applications/Mullen_Car.jpg

[luv]

ROFL Is that because you only pick on women?
I resemble that remark.

[Brock]

What's your issue with the petroleum industry?

I don't know what his issue is, but mine is they're ****ing thieves.

[Simplex3]

I don't know what his issue is, but mine is they're ****ing thieves.
I can assume you feel awful for them in the years the LOSE money then, right?

[Donger]

I'm not emotional nor irrational.....just poorer and ****ing angry.

Okay. What's your issue with the industry then?

[noa]

I resemble that remark.


Great line. Does that mean you've seen Grindhouse?

[Donger]

Doesn't "F*ck you petroleum industry" qualify as emotional? Just asking o:-)

He may just be being colorful.

[Donger]

I don't know what his issue is, but mine is they're ****ing thieves.

Thieves? Please explain.

[luv]

Great line. Does that mean you've seen Grindhouse?
Nope.

[noa]

Thieves? Please explain.


Because they are getting fat off our hard earned money.

[Donger]

ROFL Is that because you only pick on women?

I don't believe that I "pick" on anyone based on gender.

[BigMeatballDave]

Because they are getting fat off our hard earned money.There must be a barrel of crude in that chin...

[Bowser]

I can assume you feel awful for them in the years the LOSE money then, right?

The 70's were a long time ago.

[Buehler445]

I feel like this... And I get almost 30MPG

[Iowanian]

While I cannot agree or condone this type of uncivilized behavior I have a suggestion.

I'd like to kindy suggest that the petroleum industry engage in a marital act with itself in the most uncomfortable of positions. It is my sincere hope that the top executive responsible for failing to construct additional refineries, suffer a traumatic rupture of the corpus cavernosum. It would be appreciated with great humor to this consumer, if the offending industrial executives would also experience a resulting priapism, and remain dog-knotted to themselves, thereby being caught in the suggested act, where the ensueing and embarrasing videos be played upon Youtube.

[keg in kc]

Holy shit, it looks like Iowangians dick fell off.

He'll be hugging someone any minute now.

[Donger]

The 70's were a long time ago.

You never bothered to look it up, did you?

[Iowanian]

In most other weeks, It might be now suggested that KEG now perform the above mentioned similar marital act with someone directly contributing to his genetic code.

I blame global warming for Keg's disappointment.

[Donger]

While I cannot agree or condone this type of uncivilized behavior I have a suggestion.

I'd like to kindy suggest that the petroleum industry engage in a marital act with itself in the most uncomfortable of positions. It is my sincere hope that the top executive responsible for failing to construct additional refineries, suffer a traumatic rupture of the corpus cavernosum. It would be appreciated with great humor to this consumer, if the offending industrial executives would also experience a resulting priapism, and remain dog-knotted to themselves, thereby being caught in the suggested act, where the ensueing and embarrasing videos be played upon Youtube.

Are there other industries you'd like to suggest non-profitable enterprises upon, or is it just the oil companies?

[keg in kc]

Oh, wait, I remember now, I-nowangian's just been hired as the poster child for the risks of cheap transgender surgery.

[Iowanian]

Are there other industries you'd like to suggest non-profitable enterprises upon, or is it just the oil companies?

Are there any other industries that can have such a negative impact on the economy of the entire nation by squeezing our balls? In most other industries, in a competative market, we actually have other choices.

I quickly tire of hearing excuses from the industry while profits are at an all time high.

Its a never ending explosive diarhea of excuses from these people. In most cases, there has to be an actual event or shortage, or problem to spike a raise it rates.

Someone farts in Egypt, prices go up that day....it has no odor so the all clear is sounded, the price doesn't come down to the consumer for a month.

"well, its the winter season coming, we're making heating oil.....prices will go up" "its winter, you pay" "well, its spring and we're switching over from winter for 3 months" "well, it IS spring break...." "Ooops, just as we recover from that...memorial day" "well, sorry to fornicate you America....but its vacation season"

I know you're in bed with them in some fashion Donger....tell them I hope they all die of Syphillis

[Bowser]

You never bothered to look it up, did you?

Look what up? This stuff?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9854784/

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2006/05/05/oil_profits_fuel_envy_discord_among_eu_ministers/

http://www.datcp.state.wi.us/cp/consumerinfo/cp/oilreport/index.jsp

There's plenty more, if you're interested.

[BigMeatballDave]

tell them I hope they all die of Syphillis
ROFL

[keg in kc]

Damn it, I'm not the master baiter I thought I was.

[Donger]

Are there any other industries that can have such a negative impact on the economy of the entire nation by squeezing our balls? In most other industries, in a competative market, we actually have other choices.

I quickly tire of hearing excuses from the industry while profits are at an all time high.

Its a never ending explosive diarhea of excuses from these people. In most cases, there has to be an actual event or shortage, or problem to spike a raise it rates.

Someone farts in Egypt, prices go up that day....it has no odor so the all clear is sounded, the price doesn't come down to the consumer for a month.

"well, its the winter season coming, we're making heating oil.....prices will go up" "its winter, you pay" "well, its spring and we're switching over from winter for 3 months" "well, it IS spring break...." "Ooops, just as we recover from that...memorial day" "well, sorry to fornicate you America....but its vacation season"

I know you're in bed with them in some fashion Donger....tell them I hope they all die of Syphillis


I understand the frustration, but no other massive market is based on a global traded commodity. At least not one I can think of.

Is government price fixing the answer? I don't know. It didn't work out oo well when we did it before.

I will also point out that while their profit (based on revenue) is massive, as profit margin, it is still right around 10%, which is relatively average.

Again, just facts.

[Donger]

Look what up? This stuff?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9854784/

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2006/05/05/oil_profits_fuel_envy_discord_among_eu_ministers/

http://www.datcp.state.wi.us/cp/consumerinfo/cp/oilreport/index.jsp

There's plenty more, if you're interested.

Maybe I'm confused, but I didn't see where any of those articles pointed out that oil companies haven't always been profitable. In fact, they haven't and have actually lost billions per year in the past. Did I miss that?

I'm not disputing that they presently are profitable. That's public knowledge, just as are the above facts, for those who wish to learn.

It's becoming clear you are not one of them.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Maybe I'm confused, but I didn't see where any of those articles pointed out that oil companies haven't always been profitable. In fact, they haven't and have actually lost billions per year in the past. Did I miss that?

I'm not disputing that they presently are profitable. That's public knowledge, just as are the above facts, for those who wish to learn.

It's becoming clear you are not one of them.


Why is it that if a company loses billions of dollars it's okay to rape us in our behinds later because they made poor business decisions way back when?

[Donger]

Why is it that if a company loses billions of dollars it's okay to rape us in our behinds later because they made poor business decisions way back when?

Like I said, their profit margins are right around 10% That's hardly rape. If you want rape, go to your bank or Microsoft. Their profit margins are 40%

It's not the fault of the oil companies that people buy their product.

The oil companies were getting "f*cked" when crude was deflated to $10 per barrel. That's the nature of their market. Their primary source material is globally traded. When it's low, they get screwed. When it's high, they make money. People love it when gas is low, and they hate it when it's high. The don't make a peep when it's low, and scream "RAPE!" when it's high.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Like I said, their profit margins are right around 10% That's hardly rape. If you want rape, go to your bank or Microsoft. Their profit margins are 40%

It's not the fault of the oil companies that people buy their product.

The oil companies were getting "f*cked" when crude was deflated to $10 per barrel. That's the nature of their market. Their primary source material is globally traded. When it's low, they get screwed. When it's high, they make money. People love it when gas is low, and they hate it when it's high. The don't make a peep when it's low, and scream "RAPE!" when it's high.


That's the nature of the beast though. Much like the oil companies screamed when they were taking a loss, and are hiding now that they are making money. I'm uneducated about all of this Donger so if you don't mind, please explain to me 1. why it takes so long for price reduction to reach us, yet price increases reach us overnight? and 2. Why haven't they built more refineries in all this time?

[Donger]

That's the nature of the beast though. Much like the oil companies screamed when they were taking a loss, and are hiding now that they are making money. I'm uneducated about all of this Donger so if you don't mind, please explain to me 1. why it takes so long for price reduction to reach us, yet price increases reach us overnight? and 2. Why haven't they built more refineries in all this time?

I've gone over this many times before, but okay...

1) I assume you're talking about retail gasoline prices? If so, right now the retailers are charging prices based on what they THINK their replacement inventory prices will be when they have to make a new order. Many times, when prices in crude are increasing, they actually lose money on each gallon they sell, because they guessed low. Therefore, when prices drop, they have to make up their losses, just like any other business. That's why prices don't fall in the same way they rise.

2) Multiple reasons. The first is that the oil companies figured out that they can make more money faster by simply expanding their existing refineries to meet demand. Don't forget: they are publically-owned companies, answerable to their shareholders, like every other public entity. In addition, they haven't built any more because of government/environmental red-tape that, quite simply, is a f*cking hassle, in consideration of the above the fact. Why shoud they go through the bother when they can make money by simply expanding additional refineries?

But, like you said, it is the nature of the beast. I just understand it. I don't giggle when it's low and I don't bitch when it's high. Others do. I'm just trying to help people understand that they really aren't getting screwed. If some can come up with evidence to the contrary, inform the FTC. They are, and have been, salivating about trying to "get" the oil companies LONG before anyone here even considered it.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I've gone over this many times before, but okay...

1) I assume you're talking about retail gasoline prices? If so, right now the retailers are charging prices based on what they THINK their replacement inventory prices will be when they have to make a new order. Many times, when prices in crude are increasing, they actually lose money on each gallon they sell, because they guessed low. Therefore, when prices drop, they have to make up their losses, just like any other business. That's why prices don't fall in the same way they rise.

2) Multiple reasons. The first is that the oil companies figured out that they can make more money faster by simply expanding their existing refineries to meet demand. Don't forget: they are publically-owned companies, answerable to their shareholders, like every other public entity. In addition, they haven't built any more because of government/environmental red-tape that, quite simply, is a f*cking hassle, in consideration of the above the fact. Why shoud they go through the bother when they can make money by simply expanding additional refineries?


Basically what I'm hearing is 1. Gas station owners are idiots and have been lying to all of us when they say they're not making any money. 2. Oil companies should probably be government regulated because they are only interested in making as much money as they can by trading in a very necessary natural resource much like power companies. I know you won't agree with 2, but surely you can see the logic, no?


P.S I'm sure you have gone over this a million times with the masses here, I appreciate you doing it again.

[BWillie]

Stop buying F'ing SUV's. They are making new cars that get 55 MPG. Buy one of those, because the price of gas is going to keep going up and going up. Unless the US takes over all countries that have crude oil and just give it to the oil companies, nothing is going to change.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Stop buying F'ing SUV's. They are making new cars that get 55 MPG. Buy one of those, because the price of gas is going to keep going up and going up. Unless the US takes over all countries that have crude oil and just give it to the oil companies, nothing is going to change.


You're right. Unfortunately though, my job requires I be able to haul some shit. What I really need to do is move closer to the city rather than living out in the ****in mountains.

[Bowser]

Maybe I'm confused, but I didn't see where any of those articles pointed out that oil companies haven't always been profitable. In fact, they haven't and have actually lost billions per year in the past. Did I miss that?

I'm not disputing that they presently are profitable. That's public knowledge, just as are the above facts, for those who wish to learn.

It's becoming clear you are not one of them.

My original staement was about the 70's being a long time ago. Seems to me like I was agreeing with you that oil companies have indeed lost money. Just not anytime lately.

[Donger]

Basically what I'm hearing is 1. Gas station owners are idiots and have been lying to all of us when they say they're not making any money. 2. Oil companies should probably be government regulated because they are only interested in making as much money as they can by trading in a very necessary natural resource much like power companies. I know you won't agree with 2, but surely you can see the logic, no?


P.S I'm sure you have gone over this a million times with the masses here, I appreciate you doing it again.

1) Gas station make very little profit on each gallon of gas. About $0.04, as an average.

2) I believe in as little government intervention as possible, in all areas. If it were proven that the oil companies were gouging, I would of course be in agreement with some controls. As of now, that hasn't been proven at all.

Let's not forget the facts: we, as Americans, DEMAND this product. It is a product that is derived from a source deep underground (usually in rather unpleasant places) and then has to be refined to a degree that makes its possible for your consumption, including governmental/environmental regulations. I'm skipping some other steps, but I hope my point is clear. It is NOT a commodity that just "is." It takes time, money and hard work to produce.

The fact that demand hasn't reduced tells me something.

[Donger]

My original staement was about the 70's being a long time ago. Seems to me like I was agreeing with you that oil companies have indeed lost money. Just not anytime lately.

Depends on your timeframe. IIRC, they lost tons in the early 1990s.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

The fact that demand hasn't reduced tells me something.


This is why I agree with you. As long as all of us suckers keep buying it up like crack cocaine in the ghetto, we deserve exactly what we get.

[Donger]

This is why I agree with you. As long as all of us suckers keep buying it up like crack cocaine in the ghetto, we deserve exactly what we get.

If it goes high enough, I believe that demand will drop. At least in this country. The problem is, it IS a global market. We're a large part of that, to be sure, but not all of it. If we don't but it, someone else will.

At what point does Mr. Smith USA decide that carpooling is now required? At what price point do Americans start thinking about selling their second car? At what threshold do Americans start thinking they don't HAVE to buy as much gasoline?

I honestly don't know. But the fact that most AREN'T making those decisions tells me that the price hasn't reached that level, yet.

[BWillie]

This is why I agree with you. As long as all of us suckers keep buying it up like crack cocaine in the ghetto, we deserve exactly what we get.

It's a simple issue.

US population goes up every day, month, and year.

Oil consumption goes up every year.

Oil supply goes down every year.

What does everybody think is going to happen?

[Mr. Flopnuts]

If it goes high enough, I believe that demand will drop. At least in this country. The problem is, it IS a global market. We're a large part of that, to be sure, but not all of it. If we don't but it, someone else will.

At what point does Mr. Smith USA decide that carpooling is now required? At what price point do Americans start thinking about selling their second car? At what threshold do Americans start thinking they don't HAVE to buy as much gasoline?

I honestly don't know. But the fact that most AREN'T making those decisions tells me that the price hasn't reached that level, yet.


I actually read an interesting article today on cnn.com about the rise in demand in countries that already have huge subsidies on oil. I'd like your take on this.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/04/news/economy/gas_demand/index.htm?postversion=2007050417

[greg63]

F*ck you petroleum industry.

I'm pretty sure it's the other way around, but I understand the sentiment. :)

[Abba-Dabba]

Gas prices reflect refinery gouging

By: CHARLES LANGLEY - for the North County Times

Big Oil's earnings statements read more like a confession than a profit report.

As North County's gas prices edge toward $3.50 a gallon, consumers should know that gasoline now costs 11 cents more than it did last year when oil was selling for $11 more per barrel. For example, on Thursday, the North County Times reported that the average price of gasoline was $3.41 a gallon. Meanwhile, the price of oil was $63 a barrel. On the same day last year, the price of oil was $74 a barrel, and gasoline cost just $3.30 a gallon (source: U.S. Department of Energy).

Something is terribly wrong when oil prices drop and the cost of gas goes up. Big Oil says it is all about "supply and demand," but the ugly truth is that North County residents are getting gouged deeply. Here's why: An $11 decrease in the cost of oil should mean a price cut of 26 cents from last year's price of $3.30 a gallon. The industry says it "struggles" to keep up with demand for gasoline, but according to the California State Board of Equalization, gasoline demand in the last half of 2006 was 1 percent lower even though there are more drivers on the road. While the report does show a 1 percent bump in gasoline consumption during January 2007, the cost of gasoline in North County averaged $2.53 a gallon ---- almost a dollar less than it does now.


What has happened is that the oil companies have shifted their profits centers from the "upstream" sector (oil and drilling) to the "downstream," which is refining. In the meantime, retailers are limited to an average profit of about a nickel a gallon.

Last week, Big Oil's first-quarter profit reports came rolling in with more bad news for consumers. On April 26, Exxon/Mobil reported that even though it produced less product than last year, it earned profits of 10 percent on unusually high refinery margins (source: MarketWatch) and that the margins were so high that the company "overcame lower crude oil and natural gas prices" (source: Associated Press).

The following day, April 27, Chevron joined the obscene profit bandwagon by announcing that it earned first-quarter profits of 18 percent, much of it on increased refining margins, even though the company produced less gasoline than last year (source: Associated Press, International Herald-Tribune). Meanwhile, Valero announced that it made the highest first-quarter profits in the company's history. Valero Chairman Bill Klesse said longer downtimes for planned refinery maintenance helped create the shortages that reaped record-shattering profits (source: San Antonio Business Journal). And on Thursday, Shell announced that despite "unusually low seasonal gas demand," that "better refining margins, particularly in the U.S. West Coast," drove profits sharply higher (source: MarketWatch.)

Bottom line: These aren't "profit reports," they are confessions.

Exxon didn't "overcome" low oil prices, as the reports suggest. It gouged its way to higher profits due to an almost complete lack of competition at the refinery level. And so did Chevron, Shell and Valero. They did it by restricting supply, panicking the markets, and intentionally underproducing gasoline.

Charles Langley is a gasoline analyst for UCAN, the San Diego-based Utility Consumers' Action Network. He also collects gas-price data for the North County Times. He edited UCAN's free 32-page guide, the "Guzzler Buster: 127 Secrets to Squeezing More Miles From Each Gallon." UCAN's "Guzzler Buster" is available free of charge to San Diego County residents who visit the UCAN Web site at www.ucan.org.

[Otter]

You knuckle dragging subhumans fail to grasp the laws of supply and demand. I've just lost an IQ point being in your presence.

[patteeu]

If you don't like the prices, stop buying gas.

Keep fighting the good fight, Donger.

[JimNasium]

Why everyone seemed to assume that I was acting rationally in my initial post is beyond me. I know all about the laws of supply and demand. I also recognize that the industry must remain profitable. That doesn't mean that I have to like it when it costs me $50 to fill up my vehicle.

[Bwana]

I just had a catback system installed on my F-250 super duty. My gas mileage went up 25%! I should have done that two years ago. Just a tip for those who have trucks out there looking to gain the edge.

[Donger]

I actually read an interesting article today on cnn.com about the rise in demand in countries that already have huge subsidies on oil. I'd like your take on this.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/04/news/economy/gas_demand/index.htm?postversion=2007050417

I pretty much feel the same way about oil subsidies as I do about nationalized healthcare.

[Donger]

Gas prices reflect refinery gouging

By: CHARLES LANGLEY - for the North County Times

Big Oil's earnings statements read more like a confession than a profit report.

As North County's gas prices edge toward $3.50 a gallon, consumers should know that gasoline now costs 11 cents more than it did last year when oil was selling for $11 more per barrel. For example, on Thursday, the North County Times reported that the average price of gasoline was $3.41 a gallon. Meanwhile, the price of oil was $63 a barrel. On the same day last year, the price of oil was $74 a barrel, and gasoline cost just $3.30 a gallon (source: U.S. Department of Energy).

Something is terribly wrong when oil prices drop and the cost of gas goes up. Big Oil says it is all about "supply and demand," but the ugly truth is that North County residents are getting gouged deeply. Here's why: An $11 decrease in the cost of oil should mean a price cut of 26 cents from last year's price of $3.30 a gallon. The industry says it "struggles" to keep up with demand for gasoline, but according to the California State Board of Equalization, gasoline demand in the last half of 2006 was 1 percent lower even though there are more drivers on the road. While the report does show a 1 percent bump in gasoline consumption during January 2007, the cost of gasoline in North County averaged $2.53 a gallon ---- almost a dollar less than it does now.


What has happened is that the oil companies have shifted their profits centers from the "upstream" sector (oil and drilling) to the "downstream," which is refining. In the meantime, retailers are limited to an average profit of about a nickel a gallon.

Last week, Big Oil's first-quarter profit reports came rolling in with more bad news for consumers. On April 26, Exxon/Mobil reported that even though it produced less product than last year, it earned profits of 10 percent on unusually high refinery margins (source: MarketWatch) and that the margins were so high that the company "overcame lower crude oil and natural gas prices" (source: Associated Press).

The following day, April 27, Chevron joined the obscene profit bandwagon by announcing that it earned first-quarter profits of 18 percent, much of it on increased refining margins, even though the company produced less gasoline than last year (source: Associated Press, International Herald-Tribune). Meanwhile, Valero announced that it made the highest first-quarter profits in the company's history. Valero Chairman Bill Klesse said longer downtimes for planned refinery maintenance helped create the shortages that reaped record-shattering profits (source: San Antonio Business Journal). And on Thursday, Shell announced that despite "unusually low seasonal gas demand," that "better refining margins, particularly in the U.S. West Coast," drove profits sharply higher (source: MarketWatch.)

Bottom line: These aren't "profit reports," they are confessions.

Exxon didn't "overcome" low oil prices, as the reports suggest. It gouged its way to higher profits due to an almost complete lack of competition at the refinery level. And so did Chevron, Shell and Valero. They did it by restricting supply, panicking the markets, and intentionally underproducing gasoline.

Charles Langley is a gasoline analyst for UCAN, the San Diego-based Utility Consumers' Action Network. He also collects gas-price data for the North County Times. He edited UCAN's free 32-page guide, the "Guzzler Buster: 127 Secrets to Squeezing More Miles From Each Gallon." UCAN's "Guzzler Buster" is available free of charge to San Diego County residents who visit the UCAN Web site at www.ucan.org.

Heh. I think I covered all the bold stuff in the other thread.

[Donger]

You knuckle dragging subhumans fail to grasp the laws of supply and demand. I've just lost an IQ point being in your presence.



I don't feel that way at all. Well, at least not until chiefs4me show up.

[Donger]

Why everyone seemed to assume that I was acting rationally in my initial post is beyond me. I know all about the laws of supply and demand. I also recognize that the industry must remain profitable. That doesn't mean that I have to like it when it costs me $50 to fill up my vehicle.

Oh, just a "F*ck me, that used to cost $35!" kind of reaction?

[Bob Dole]

Why everyone seemed to assume that I was acting rationally in my initial post is beyond me. I know all about the laws of supply and demand. I also recognize that the industry must remain profitable. That doesn't mean that I have to like it when it costs me $50 to fill up my vehicle.

$50? What the hell are you driving? A skateboard?

[jidar]

I blame whoever made the planet for not putting more cheap oil in the ground.

[jidar]

an aside to this, I think we're right at or a bit past the point that shale oil becomes profitable?

I expect that oil companies are scrambling to ramp up production from that source.

[bkkcoh]

why isn't the democratic leadership calling for massive investigations of Big Oil since they are for the little guy. I haven't even heard any conern coming from Pelosi, Clinton, or anyone else that is a leader of the democrats or thinks they are a leader of the dems.


an aside to this, I think we're right at or a bit past the point that shale oil becomes profitable?

I expect that oil companies are scrambling to ramp up production from that source.

I would have thought that about all of the oil wells in Oklahoma and Texas that were capped when the price of oil was so cheap also.

[jidar]

why isn't the democratic leadership calling for massive investigations of Big Oil since they are for the little guy. I haven't even heard any conern coming from Pelosi, Clinton, or anyone else that is a leader of the democrats or thinks they are a leader of the dems.


because only stupid people don't know why this is happening, and only about half the democrats are that stupid.

[Donger]

an aside to this, I think we're right at or a bit past the point that shale oil becomes profitable?

I expect that oil companies are scrambling to ramp up production from that source.

Yes. Shale can compete with crude when it's over $40 a barrel. The question is: will it stay above $40?

[Saulbadguy]

I think it's time to stop buying the Donger kool-aid. (gasoline)

[Donger]

I think it's time to stop buying the Donger kool-aid. (gasoline)

I recommend the cherry-flavored.

But, that really is all we can do to alter the price of crude.

[JimNasium]

Oh, just a "F*ck me, that used to cost $35!" kind of reaction?
Yes. Contrary to popular opinion I am not stupid.....just stubborn.

[bkkcoh]

because only stupid people don't know why this is happening, and only about half the democrats are that stupid.


Jidar,

So are you saying our politicans are only providing lip service to the issues that their constituents are concerned with? :hmmm: Interesting....

[Iowanian]

Here is a nice alternative.....
make this guy rich instead of shieks and Exon execs.

http://www.utextension.utk.edu/fieldCrops/corn/corn_images/corn-ear-husked-Web.jpg

For the Greenies
http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts/sources/renewable/images/carboncycle2.gif

[jidar]

Jidar,

So are you saying our politicans are only providing lip service to the issues that their constituents are concerned with? :hmmm: Interesting....


no. supply and demand is a very simple concept, one not worth investigating.

[boogblaster]

With Vensualla Nationalizing its crude industry..which most imported crude stops there first to be cracked..who knows what the big oil companies will charge now .....

[Saulbadguy]

Ethanol is not a viable long term solution. IMO.

[dirk digler]

Something needs to be done to inflict pain on the oil companies to make them stop from gouging everyday normal Americans.

[bkkcoh]

no. supply and demand is a very simple concept, one not worth investigating.

I would agree to a point, but when the republicans were in charge, they were calling for investigation of Big Oil. I find it amusing that since the shoe is on the other foot, they aren't calling for investigations.

On a side note, it would be interesting to know how many new refineries have been denied in the last 15 - 20 years and how many refinieries have been closed or shut down in that same time frame.

[Iowanian]

It will never replace fossil fuels....If Bio fuels allow less percentage of our money to go to oil Shieks, terrorists and the like, I'll take the 10-20 year bridge to get to whatever scientists can work out as a better sollution.

Biofuels mean more money for alot more Americans than Any fossil fuel does and less for the refining-restricting rat bastards who artificially are inflating these prices. Call it what you want, but its pure theft that these companies are all incidently "repairing" the refineries at the same time. Its scheduled alright....a scheduled fornication of the American public.

[bkkcoh]

Something needs to be done to inflict pain on the oil companies to make them stop from gouging everyday normal Americans.


Any ideas that wouldn't be passed directly on to the consumers?

[Donger]

I would agree to a point, but when the republicans were in charge, they were calling for investigation of Big Oil. I find it amusing that since the shoe is on the other foot, they aren't calling for investigations.

On a side note, it would be interesting to know how many new refineries have been denied in the last 15 - 20 years and how many refinieries have been closed or shut down in that same time frame.

In 1981, the US had 324 refineries with a total capacity of 18.6 million barrels per day, the Department of Energy reports. Today, there are just 132 oil refineries with a capacity of 16.8 million b.p.d., according to Oil and Gas Journal, a trade publication.

I don't know how many, if any, submittals for new refineries haved been requested and/or denied.

[Otter]

I don't feel that way at all. Well, at least not until chiefs4me show up.

Just a joke, wanted to jump on the "bust on the voice of reason" wagon.

[dirk digler]

Any ideas that wouldn't be passed directly on to the consumers?

I have some thoughts but they could land me in jail.

[007]

I am just trying to figure out why American's are reportedly buying MORE gas with the prices up like this. I have been trying to conserve like mad to avoid putting too much gas in our minivan. I can't justify the cost of purchasing a new vehicle right now just for gas so I am simply not driving as much. If it is true that American's are buying more gas, then American's are truly MORONS.

I know, this is not news.

[PastorMikH]

On a somewhat related note, I think it would be great for the government to lift it's regulations on the costs of utilities to our homes. There's no point in oil companies being the only ones that can gouge prices for record gains. The local REC should be able to do record record profits too. Afterall, fair is fair.

[PastorMikH]

I am just trying to figure out why American's are reportedly buying MORE gas with the prices up like this. I have been trying to conserve like mad to avoid putting too much gas in our minivan. I can't justify the cost of purchasing a new vehicle right now just for gas so I am simply not driving as much. If it is true that American's are buying more gas, then American's are truly MORONS.

I know, this is not news.


I just went 2 weeks on one tank of gas so I'm not the one using all of it.

[Donger]

On a somewhat related note, I think it would be great for the government to lift it's regulations on the costs of utilities to our homes. There's no point in oil companies being the only ones that can gouge prices for record gains. The local REC should be able to do record record profits too. Afterall, fair is fair.

One large difference between the two? Chances are that your utility generates almost all (if not all) of its power from domestic sources, probably coal.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I just went 2 weeks on one tank of gas so I'm not the one using all of it.

Me too. 2 fill-ups a month.

Which still costs me $110. And no, that's not in an SUV. I drive a 30MPG sedan.

I guess I'll be purchasing one of these soon. I hear you get 100 MPG on this hog......

[PastorMikH]

One large difference between the two? Chances are that your utility generates almost all (if not all) of its power from domestic sources, probably coal.



There are numerous differences honestly. Like one is government regulation on prices. Granted on one hand, there is one supplier for utilities, but on the other hand the oil companies sure seem to be working together to keep their prices up too. Consumers have to have fuel so they know the consumer doesn't have a choice but to pay the price.

What really chaffs me is the price of gas keeps going up while the oil companies keep posting record breaking profits. If I thought they were being fair, I'd be a bit more understanding.

[Donger]

There are numerous differences honestly. Like one is government regulation on prices. Granted on one hand, there is one supplier for utilities, but on the other hand the oil companies sure seem to be working together to keep their prices up too. Consumers have to have fuel so they know the consumer doesn't have a choice but to pay the price.

What really chaffs me is the price of gas keeps going up while the oil companies keep posting record breaking profits. If I thought they were being fair, I'd be a bit more understanding.

"Have to have." I asked earlier, but I wonder what the price will be to make people turn away from the notion that they "have to have" gasoline.

[Bowser]

"Have to have." I asked earlier, but I wonder what the price will be to make people turn away from the notion that they "have to have" gasoline.

I'd be willing to say, in this day and age, that we don't so much "want" to buy gasoline, but we "need" to buy gasoline. Modern day life kind of dictates that.

[dirk digler]

"Have to have." I asked earlier, but I wonder what the price will be to make people turn away from the notion that they "have to have" gasoline.

If there was a readily available alternative to gasoline I think most people would go that route don't you?

[Donger]

I'd be willing to say, in this day and age, that we don't so much "want" to buy gasoline, but we "need" to buy gasoline. Modern day life kind of dictates that.

Are people carpooling? Are they combining trips? Are they making every effort possible to reduce their gasoline consumption? Changing jobs so they don't have to drive as far, etc.

People "need" gasoline because they aren't willing to make the unpleasant changes required?

[Bowser]

Are people carpooling? Are they combining trips? Are they making every effort possible to reduce their gasoline consumption? Changing jobs so they don't have to drive as far, etc.

People "need" gasoline because they aren't willing to make the unpleasant changes required?

Sure they are. Even with that, it could be argued that it still doesn't help at the pump.

[Iowanian]

There is quite a bit of carpooling in my area, as well as bus/van service that gives rides to people who work at a regional university.

I've cancelled trips, not visited family as much as usual, and drive the wife's car instead of my truck to meetings or on errands.

People all over are doing things a little differently, which is another reason I'm calling Bullshit on the industry.

Its self inflicted, and done so on purpose to gouge the consumer for profit margin.

[Donger]

If there was a readily available alternative to gasoline I think most people would go that route don't you?

Walking? Public transportation? Bicycles?

Is it harder and less convienient? Sure.

My question is: what does the price have to be to get you to make such changes?

[morphius]

I'd be willing to say, in this day and age, that we don't so much "want" to buy gasoline, but we "need" to buy gasoline. Modern day life kind of dictates that.
Yup, kids have to be taken to school and daycare by a certain time, then I have to be back to pick them up at various times. I had done the right thing moving only 4 miles from where I worked, but then they moved us and now I have to drive nearly 25 minutes to get into work.

[Donger]

Sure they are. Even with that, it could be argued that it still doesn't help at the pump.

If we as a nation reduced our gasoline consumption by even 5%, it would have a huge effect on the market and pricing.

[Iowanian]

The industry would likely have a "refinery breakdown" reduce production, raise prices and get theirs anyway.

Donger probably dips his own Vaseline right out of the company bucket .


If 5% would make such a huge difference......the Petroleum industry must be HUGE fans of BioD and Ethynol.

[Donger]

The industry would likely have a "refinery breakdown" reduce production, raise prices and get theirs anyway.

Donger probably dips his own Vaseline right out of the company bucket .

I have zero financial interest in the oil companies. None. If I did, I would say so.

[dirk digler]

Walking? Public transportation? Bicycles?

Is it harder and less convienient? Sure.

My question is: what does the price have to be to get you to make such changes?

I live in a small town 2 miles from my work so there isn't any public transportation and I am too lazy to walk or ride a bike. I thought about buying a scooter but the cost savings would be minimal since I live so close to work but plus I don't think my daughter would like riding on the back when I take her to school.

To honestly answer your question I don't know for me personally but I think we are getting pretty close for alot of Americans.

[Donger]

The industry would likely have a "refinery breakdown" reduce production, raise prices and get theirs anyway.

Donger probably dips his own Vaseline right out of the company bucket .


If 5% would make such a huge difference......the Petroleum industry must be HUGE fans of BioD and Ethynol.

They're big fans of everything that makes them a profit.

[Frazod]

I have zero financial interest in the oil companies. None. If I did, I would say so.

So why are you the Recxjake of Big Oil? :shrug:

[Donger]

So why are you the Recxjake of Big Oil? :shrug:

That's moderately insulting!

Anyway, I don't promote or defend the oil companies. They are what they are. I understand the business side since many of the oil companies used to be customers of mine.

[Frazod]

That's moderately insulting!

Anyway, I don't promote or defend the oil companies. They are what they are. I understand the business side since many of the oil companies used to be customers of mine.

Only moderately? :p

[007]

I just went 2 weeks on one tank of gas so I'm not the one using all of it.
We have only been able to get to 11 days on the minivan. It only gets 17 mpg. We do most of our driving in the Prizm. It pulls about 27 mpg. Unfortunately, a family of 5 does not fit in a Prizm very well, especially with two car seats. When we bought it we only had one child with plans of only one more.

[Bob Dole]

We have only been able to get to 11 days on the minivan. It only gets 17 mpg. We do most of our driving in the Prizm. It pulls about 27 mpg. Unfortunately, a family of 5 does not fit in a Prizm very well, especially with two car seats. When we bought it we only had one child with plans of only one more.

Have you figured out what causes that "kid thing" yet?

[Mr. Laz]

Have you figured out what causes that "kid thing" yet?
GOD hates birth control

[Simplex3]

I quickly tire of hearing excuses from the industry while profits are at an all time high.
My company made record profits last year, too. Must be because I was raping people.

I'll bet your company made more last year than the year before. At least you'd better hope they did. You and your greedy corporate whore of an employer.

[Buehler445]

How much of the recent price increases is due to increased worldwide consumption. I know China has ramped up its demand over the last decade tremendously through their development program. I don't know as much about India, but I understand their GDP is growing at like 9% over the last 5 years :eek: . My belief is that this growth has added significant and very volatile demand to the equation.

[Mr. Laz]

My company made record profits last year, too. Must be because I was raping people.

I'll bet your company made more last year than the year before. At least you'd better hope they did. You and your greedy corporate whore of an employer.
do you work for a Health,Food or energy company?


if not, then who freakin cares?


the different is that certain industries are pretty much mandatory for daily life. These companies use this "dependency" to financially rape america.

[Donger]

How much of the recent price increases is due to increased worldwide consumption. I know China has ramped up its demand over the last decade tremendously through their development program. I don't know as much about India, but I understand their GDP is growing at like 9% over the last 5 years :eek: . My belief is that this growth has added significant and very volatile demand to the equation.

Increased worldwide demand has contributed to recent price increases, but the biggest cause of the recent jump has been lack of domestic refining capacity.

[Herzig]

How much of the recent price increases is due to increased worldwide consumption. I know China has ramped up its demand over the last decade tremendously through their development program. I don't know as much about India, but I understand their GDP is growing at like 9% over the last 5 years :eek: . My belief is that this growth has added significant and very volatile demand to the equation.

Along with the good ol USA who has 5% of the world's popuation but uses over 40% of the world's annual oil production. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm tired of giving money to people who want to kill us. It's time for people to start buying vehicles that are fuel efficient and for Detroit to put more effort into making them.

[Simplex3]

It will never replace fossil fuels....If Bio fuels allow less percentage of our money to go to oil Shieks, terrorists and the like, I'll take the 10-20 year bridge to get to whatever scientists can work out as a better sollution.

Biofuels mean more money for alot more Americans than Any fossil fuel does and less for the refining-restricting rat bastards who artificially are inflating these prices. Call it what you want, but its pure theft that these companies are all incidently "repairing" the refineries at the same time. Its scheduled alright....a scheduled fornication of the American public.
Most of the time that those refineries are down it's to shift production to another of the gajillion "blends" your beloved politicians demand.

[Simplex3]

Sure they are. Even with that, it could be argued that it still doesn't help at the pump.
LMAO

Do you actually believe that?

[Simplex3]

do you work for a Health,Food or energy company?


if not, then who freakin cares?


the different is that certain industries are pretty much mandatory for daily life. These companies use this "dependency" to financially rape america.
Get through a day without using a computer (including embedded systems) and see how un-mandatory my industry is.

[Swanman]

I remember about 5+ years ago when gas was getting toward $3/gallon, the state of Illinois suspended the state gas tax for the summer months, which dropped gas prices by around $.10 per gallon. Now that gas is well over $3 in the Chicago area, I haven't heard a peep from the scumbag politicians in this state, they probably have every penny of the tax budget spent and then some. As far as the federal government goes, I'll shit diamonds before they reduce taxes on gas, given their recent spending habits.

I take public transportation to work every day, and one thing that could help to lure people to that is the tax credits they were talking about years ago for people that take public transportation to work. But given that the federal government is more into politicizing every issue instead of solving problems, I won't hold my breath on that either.

[Simplex3]

I remember about 5+ years ago when gas was getting toward $3/gallon, the state of Illinois suspended the state gas tax for the summer months, which dropped gas prices by around $.10 per gallon. Now that gas is well over $3 in the Chicago area, I haven't heard a peep from the scumbag politicians in this state, they probably have every penny of the tax budget spent and then some. As far as the federal government goes, I'll shit diamonds before they reduce taxes on gas, given their recent spending habits.

I take public transportation to work every day, and one thing that could help to lure people to that is the tax credits they were talking about years ago for people that take public transportation to work. But given that the federal government is more into politicizing every issue instead of solving problems, I won't hold my breath on that either.
:clap:

Little known fact to most of the dolts we reside around in this country: The govt. makes more on gas and cigarettes than the people who manufacture, distribute, and sell them make combined.

[Mr. Laz]

Get through a day without using a computer (including embedded systems) and see how un-mandatory my industry is.
but there are multiple ways to get a computer and internet service.


microsoft is borderline monopoly ... but it's getting better.


but the oil industry companies are few and they work together.



if a company wants to charge a million bucks per Yo-Yo ... fine, more power to them.


but Food,Health and Energy basics are different

[Donger]

It seems like a lot of people believe that gouging is going on. FWIW from the FTC...

How do consumers know that oil companies aren’t price gouging?

The U.S. government has investigated gasoline prices about 30 times over the last 20 years but oil companies were never found to have “fixed” prices. Most recently, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) completed an exhaustive study of alleged market manipulation to increase gasoline prices in the weeks following Hurricane Katrina late last summer. The FTC report, released in May 2006, included these findings:

* No evidence that refiners manipulated prices by running refineries below full production capacity, restricting gasoline production or diverting gasoline from the U.S. market to less lucrative foreign markets.

* No evidence to suggest refinery expansion decisions over the past 20 years resulted from either unilateral or coordinated attempts to manipulate prices.

* No evidence to suggest companies reduced inventories to increase or manipulate prices or exacerbate price spikes.

* No situations that might allow one firm – or a small collusive group – to manipulate gasoline futures prices by using storage assets to restrict gasoline movements into New York Harbor, the key delivery point for gasoline.

[Steve Sewell]

Thieves? Please explain.

George Bush

[Iowanian]

Most of the time that those refineries are down it's to shift production to another of the gajillion "blends" your beloved politicians demand.


MY "beloved" politicians?

Sure thing sparky.

[Mr. Laz]

It seems like a lot of people believe that gouging is going on. FWIW from the FTC....
you actually think that gasoline market doesn't work in concert?


please ..... they may not have meetings but their tactics and philosophy are way too common to not have some form of collusion.

Opec is openly so ....


the price of gas is too even to have any real competitive aspect to it.

[Steve Sewell]

It's funny that we all forget the culpability of the auto industry in all of this.

[Donger]

you actually think that gasoline market doesn't work in concert?


please ..... they may not have meetings but their tactics and philosophy are way too common to not have some form of collusion.

Opec is openly so ....


the price of gas is too even to have any real competitive aspect to it.

Okay, give your evidence to the FTC. I've had some interaction with those people. They would LOVE to hear your facts.

[Mr. Laz]

Okay, give your evidence to the FTC. I've had some interaction with those people. They would LOVE to hear your facts.
if there was anything written down on paper they would of already raised hell.

but you don't need to get wet to know it's raining outside.


The Prices ebb and flow with waaaaaaaaaay too much precision to not have some kind of unwritten agreement or code.

[Simplex3]

you actually think that gasoline market doesn't work in concert?


please ..... they may not have meetings but their tactics and philosophy are way too common to not have some form of collusion.

Opec is openly so ....


the price of gas is too even to have any real competitive aspect to it.
I charge just above what my competitors charge, too. I'll bet you'll find most items for sale in the US are generally the same price between competitors. Am I missing something here?

:shrug:

[morphius]

Along with the good ol USA who has 5% of the world's popuation but uses over 40% of the world's annual oil production. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm tired of giving money to people who want to kill us. It's time for people to start buying vehicles that are fuel efficient and for Detroit to put more effort into making them.
As some friends from Israel once said, "The longest road in Israel takes about an hour and half to drive, some people in KC commute that far every day".

[Simplex3]

if there was anything written down on paper they would of already raised hell.

but you don't need to get wet to know it's raining outside.


The Prices ebb and flow with waaaaaaaaaay too much precision to not have some kind of unwritten agreement or code.
It had to be done...


http://media.arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.media/tinfoil.jpg

[Steve Sewell]

I charge just above what my competitors charge, too. I'll bet you'll find most items for sale in the US are generally the same price between competitors. Am I missing something here?

:shrug:

Yeah, you are, because true competition lowers prices. You become more efficient in your business practice and charge less while making the same profit margin %, while doing more business. It's called capitalism, that's how companies get ahead in their respective market. The become more efficient and charge prices that their competitors cannot match...Walmart comes to mind. What you posted above is not accurate, unless you are speaking from a gas station owner/oil company shareholder standpoint...for some reason in that industry, there is little to no desire to compete...they just want to charge the market price. I think this comes down to companies not updating/creating facilities that will make them more efficient.

Someone has to force some changes here or it will keep getting worse. The consumer's "price tolerance" is going up. 7 years ago, a consumer would puke if you told them that gas was even $2.00 a gallon. Nowadays, consumers welcome gas at $2.60 a gallon with open arms and relief. Unless the consumer wises up and demands change in the way of their pocketbooks, nothing will ever change.

[Steve Sewell]

Walking? Public transportation? Bicycles?

Is it harder and less convienient? Sure.

My question is: what does the price have to be to get you to make such changes?

Part of the problem is indeed the general public's reluctance to leave their comfort zone.

The other part of the problem is that any attempts at creating VIABLE public transportation along with follow up education on it's benefits and ease of use in this country are strong lobbied against by the auto industry in some form or fashion. It's a vicious cycle.

[Simplex3]

Yeah, you are, because true competition lowers prices. You become more efficient in your business practice and charge less while making the same profit margin %, while doing more business. It's called capitalism, that's how companies get ahead in their respective market. The become more efficient and charge prices that their competitors cannot match...Walmart comes to mind. What you posted above is not accurate, unless you are speaking from a gas station owner/oil company shareholder standpoint...for some reason in that industry, there is little to no desire to compete...they just want to charge the market price. I think this comes down to companies not updating/creating facilities that will make them more efficient.

Someone has to force some changes here or it will keep getting worse. The consumer's "price tolerance" is going up. 7 years ago, a consumer would puke if you told them that gas was even $2.00 a gallon. Nowadays, consumers welcome gas at $2.60 a gallon with open arms and relief. Unless the consumer wises up and demands change in the way of their pocketbooks, nothing will ever change.
I could "make it" by charging far less than I do. Wal-Mart & Target make a s**t pot of money every year, they could obviously charge less, too. Additionally, I'm pretty sure UPS & FedEx both posted profits last year. Oh, and by the way, all three of those industries make WAY higher margins in WAY lower risk industries.

You're right though, something will have to change. We'll need to quit demanding so much of the product.

[Simplex3]

Part of the problem is indeed the general public's reluctance to leave their comfort zone.

The other part of the problem is that any attempts at creating VIABLE public transportation along with follow up education on it's benefits and ease of use in this country are strong lobbied against by the auto industry in some form or fashion. It's a vicious cycle.
So you're saying the answer is less govt, right? Remove the entity for people to lobby to? I'm with you here.

[ottawa_chiefs_fan]

Are people carpooling? Are they combining trips? Are they making every effort possible to reduce their gasoline consumption? Changing jobs so they don't have to drive as far, etc.

People "need" gasoline because they aren't willing to make the unpleasant changes required?

I lay a large portion of the blame for this on NASCAR...I think that if you have 2 drivers in a car you should get the inside lane for the whole race...

[Simplex3]

Yeah, you are, because true competition lowers prices.
You know, I couldn't let this stand.

My price has gone up every year. There's not a single year my hourly rate hasn't gone up. There are more people in my field than ever before. "Jobs are being shipped overseas", if you believe that hype.

However, the key ingredient here is demand. People want more of what I have this year than wanted it last year. The thing hasn't changed, but the demand, and therefore the price, has gone up.

[Steve Sewell]

You know, I couldn't let this stand.

My price has gone up every year. There's not a single year my hourly rate hasn't gone up. There are more people in my field than ever before. "Jobs are being shipped overseas", if you believe that hype.

However, the key ingredient here is demand. People want more of what I have this year than wanted it last year. The thing hasn't changed, but the demand, and therefore the price, has gone up.

I was responding to your statement that competitors generally charge the same prices, which is completely false. Prices do go up every year, that's called inflation. Let's say competitor A is charging $1.00 and competitor B is charging $1.20 for his product. And let's just say for simplicity that inflation is 5%. Competitor A will charge $1.05 the next year for his product, and Competitor B will charge $1.26. Competitor A is still charging less than Competitor B for his product.

Consider your options...if you can produce something more efficiently than your competitor, charge less for it, and make the same profit margins, wouldn't you do it? You'd get more customers which would result in you getting more $$ without sacrificing your margins. In other words, demand has nothing to do with competition...it just means more companies will emerge and that they can charge higher prices than before. A companies efficiency will ultimately set itself apart from the pack because it will be able to provide the same service/product for a lower price than it's competitors...which is currently NOT the case with the oil companies.

[Donger]

Bump.