Peter King's Take on Trent Green

[Buehler445]

Here is what Peter King has to say about it. He usually doesn't give a flying feces about the Chiefs so it is interesting to see him write about it. Your thoughts?


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/05/06/mmqb/index.html

NFL thoughts of the weekend, from the home office in Montclair, N.J.

News item: The Dolphins continue to play chicken with Kansas City over Trent Green.

"I don't know who's going to blink first,'' Green said Sunday afternoon from his home in Kansas City. "During the draft last week, I understand Miami was offering a [sixth-round pick], and Kansas City wanted at least a four. When the draft ended without a trade, I had a couple of tough days. These are smart people. I couldn't figure out why they couldn't reach a deal. It's pretty frustrating.''

I'll tell you exactly why they can't reach a deal. Simple, really.

• Kansas City is dug in because president Carl Peterson figures Green is Miami's starting quarterback in 2007, and the Dolphins -- despite their quiet protestations to the contrary -- will eventually figure they have to have Green in camp to learn their offense in time to start opening day, and the Dolphins will give a better pick than a sixth-rounder.

• Miami is dug in, refusing to offer a first-day 2008 draft choice, or even the prospect of one in a conditional trade, because it knows Kansas City can't get a better offer than a sixth-round pick anywhere. So the Dolphins figure, "The Chiefs can't go anywhere to get a better deal, so they'll either give him to us or make him come to training camp 11 weeks from now at $7.2 million on their salary cap. And they don't want to do that.''

Here's one more factor in Miami's favor: Green learned the offense taught by Miami coach Cam Cameron 11 years ago, when Green was the third-string quarterback in Washington and Cameron the quarterback coach. "Cam's tweaked it a little bit, but I could walk into the Dolphins today and pretty much know it,'' Green said. "I probably know 80, 90 percent of it right now.''

And that, believe it or not, really takes away any motivation the Dolphins would have to get the deal done quickly. Cameron needs Green in camp to get familiar with his receivers and to be the leader the Dolphins crave on offense. But if Green shows up July 20, no one with any football sense thinks he wouldn't have enough time to learn everything he needs to learn to play for the Dolphins by opening day.

"I understand why the Chiefs are doing this,'' Green said. "They want to get the best deal they can. I'm not bitter about it. It's a business. And I understand they want to go with the younger guy. That's the way football is. But they gave me permission to talk to other teams when this process started, and Miami was the team most interested in me. At least give me the chance to finish my career the way I want.''

I feel bad for Green, one of the classiest players in any sport. But this thing could last another month. Not that I think that's going to raise Miami's offer. They've given away lots of draft choices over the last few years. (Remember the second-rounder they surrendered for A.J. Feeley?) Cameron and GM Randy Mueller are determined not to give away a decent pick for a player they think they're going to have, one way or the other, by August.

Miami has a slight edge here because Kansas City won't want to pay Green his money this year, and the Chiefs might even need that money to pay Larry Johnson. I still think Green will be a Dolphin. Just not very quickly.

[luv]

It's a catch 22. This will start the big Trent debate again though.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

My take: Peter King is a fat, turkey-necked f*ck who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. Miami needs Green more than we need to get rid of him. Advantage KC.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

"I understand why the Chiefs are doing this,'' Green said. "They want to get the best deal they can. I'm not bitter about it. It's a business. And I understand they want to go with the younger guy. That's the way football is. But they gave me permission to talk to other teams when this process started, and Miami was the team most interested in me. At least give me the chance to finish my career the way I want.''



Most interested? Bullshit. If that was the case, this deal would've been done. Trent can say he understands this is business all he wants, but comments like that show he really doesn't. It's all lip service. No, I'd say the team that was the MOST interested in Mr. Green was one of the teams he REFUSED to even talk too. I'm sick of him making this out like Miami wants him the most. He wants Miami the most. The Dolphins don't seem to give a SHIT about HIM. He has the right to do this, I understand why he's doing this, but I'm sick of his whining about the Chiefs doing what they're entitled to do as well. I'll be curious to see his stance should we tell him we're gonna pay him his money.

[Buehler445]

... No, I'd say the team that was the MOST interested in Mr. Green was one of the teams he REFUSED to even talk too. I'm sick of him making this out like Miami wants him the most. He wants Miami the most.

I agree. Trent does have class in most cases, but while he maybe trying to be PC, he is not telling it like it is. Not cool.

[Direckshun]

The only reason Peter King cares about this is because he's got a dry stretch of material for the next three months.

That's absolutely the only reason he cares.

[cdcox]

Here's one more factor in Miami's favor: Green learned the offense taught by Miami coach Cam Cameron 11 years ago, when Green was the third-string quarterback in Washington and Cameron the quarterback coach. "Cam's tweaked it a little bit, but I could walk into the Dolphins today and pretty much know it,'' Green said. "I probably know 80, 90 percent of it right now.''

And that, believe it or not, really takes away any motivation the Dolphins would have to get the deal done quickly. Cameron needs Green in camp to get familiar with his receivers and to be the leader the Dolphins crave on offense. But if Green shows up July 20, no one with any football sense thinks he wouldn't have enough time to learn everything he needs to learn to play for the Dolphins by opening day.

Not only that, but Green is renound around the world and maybe beyond, for his ability to shake of the rust in the blink of the eye and appear in mid-season form. When he was new to the Chiefs in 2001, he stepped in like he'd been there 10 years. It was amazing. And every season, he was on FIRE at the beginnning of the year, shreadding defenses wilth laser-like accuracy. And last year when he came back from injury you could not tell he was rusty in the least. I heard more than one person ask how Trent had managed to turn back the clock to 2001.

Yes, all the cards are in the Dolphin's favor, since Trent Green is the QB who adapts the quickest to a new situation and shows the least rust of all the QBs in the NFL and probably the CFL and areana league, too.

[Direckshun]

Although, surprise surprise, he says Trent is the reason Miami has the leverage.

[kcxiv]

Keep him until the day before the season starts if they have too. Feelings are going to be hurt, hell they already are. LEt them go into the season with Cleo doing all the work and Green not in football shape.

[ClevelandBronco]

I'll be curious to see his stance should we tell him we're gonna pay him his money.

That would kinda put him on the spot, wouldn't it?

That aside, and with my own Bronco homerism acknowleged, I tend to side with the employer in most personnel disputes. I'm surprised to see anyone say that Green and/or Miami holds the cards in this deal. The existing contract is trump in this game and the K.C. organization is holding it. The only question in my mind is whether they'll be willing to pay the pot all it will take to play the final card.

IMO, Miami blinks first.

[Valiant]

July 20th huh??? I am thinking early September...

Carl should tell him he is not invited to camp and release him the last preseason game... Carl should also hire a PI to make sure Trent has not received a playbook from the Fins... If they have I believe that is some serious fines and rewards for the Chiefs...

Trent can come in and learn Cam's system instantly huh??? Sorry but I doubt Cam has kept his system the exact same that trent was in 11 years ago... I am sorry if Trent is saying he already knows this much of their plays then I would defiantly be looking into it...

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Keep him until the day before the season starts if they have too. Feelings are going to be hurt, hell they already are. LEt them go into the season with Cleo doing all the work and Green not in football shape.


I say keep him all year and release him next year when he reaches the magical QB age of 38. He's a great insurance policy, and LJ's deal can be done at season's end.

[Valiant]

Not only that, but Green is renound around the world and maybe beyond, for his ability to shake of the rust in the blink of the eye and appear in mid-season form. When he was new to the Chiefs in 2001, he stepped in like he'd been there 10 years. It was amazing. And every season, he was on FIRE at the beginnning of the year, shreadding defenses wilth laser-like accuracy. And last year when he came back from injury you could not tell he was rusty in the least. I heard more than one person ask how Trent had managed to turn back the clock to 2001.

Yes, all the cards are in the Dolphin's favor, since Trent Green is the QB who adapts the quickest to a new situation and shows the least rust of all the QBs in the NFL and probably the CFL and areana league, too.


Like I said I would let him rot until the last preseason game and release him if Miami is not going to make a fair offer... I would still look into tampering from Miami about them giving him info and/or a playbook to study...

[wazu]

Miami needs Green more than we need to get rid of him. Advantage KC.

Huh? KC absolutely HAS to get rid of Green, or else they better believe he is their starter. He's a damned expensive back-up. Miami is going to suck with or without Green. Even if Green helps a ton, it's probably the difference between going 5-11 and going 8-8. I still don't know why the Dolphins would give us anything for him. I would think they would want to develop youth just like we do at this point. Both franchises need to rebuild.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

That would kinda put him on the spot, wouldn't it?

That aside, and with my own Bronco homerism acknowleged, I tend to side with the employer in most personnel disputes. I'm surprised to see anyone say that Green and/or Miami holds the cards in this deal. The existing contract is trump in this game and the K.C. organization is holding it. The only question in my mind is whether they'll be willing to pay the pot all it will take to play the final card.

IMO, Miami blinks first.


You sure are awful reasonable for a Broncos fan. Stick around, I can be objective too if talking with like minded people.

[keg in kc]

Basically saying what we already know: there's no real reason to be talking about this right now. Neither team has a reason to rush.

[ClevelandBronco]

You sure are awful reasonable for a Broncos fan. Stick around, I can be objective too if talking with like minded people.

I'm really most interested in the game itself, and I look forward to some good discussion on this board.

I'm certainly a Broncos fan, but I'm not blindly rabid about it. It's not like I own the team. (And it's not like the owner didn't offer me and my fellow fans a thinly veiled threat to leave Denver if we didn't pay for a new stadium a few years ago.)

I suppose that I'm about as equally loyal to Mr. Bowlen and his team as he is to me.

[CoMoChief]

The Chiefs will bite the bullet with this and release Green because there is no way we leave Green on our roster when there's money that needs to go to LJ and are rumors of him holding out. Carl played his hand way too early in this one.

[Direckshun]

I don't think Carl's to blame for this one.

Carl played this situation reasonably. It's Trent that torpedoed things.

And that's coming from a rabid Trent Green fan.

[The Franchise]

I say wait until 2 weeks into the preseason and then cut him. Hell just cut him now and get it over with. Who really cares if Miami gets him. I'm tired of hearing all this bullshit over and over again.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I say wait until 2 weeks into the preseason and then cut him. Hell just cut him now and get it over with. Who really cares if Miami gets him. I'm tired of hearing all this bullshit over and over again.


We'll never get a good deal again if we just let him go now. This is sadly enough, about saving face.

[Direckshun]

We'll never get a good deal again if we just let him go now.
Come again?

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Come again?


I think Carl loses credibility in future negotiations if we just cave in. That's all.

[Direckshun]

I think Carl loses credibility in future negotiations if we just cave in. That's all.
Carl loses credibility if he accepts the 6th now, yes. It tells future teams just to make a bad offer, sit on their hands, and the Chiefs will cave.

Carl does not lose credibility if we release Green, because it's a situational ordeal. Carl played the situation as reasonably as possible, and simply wouldn't stand for a bad offer. We lost this to circumstances, mostly including Green's own input. Releasing Green sends a stronger message for future negotiations, IMO. It's essentially telling teams we have zero tolerance for ridiculously low offers.

[ClevelandBronco]

Come again?

He's right, IMO, Direckshun.

You guys are dealing your starting QB from last season to a team that is desperately seeking a QB for next season. You guys have a commodity in hand that a buyer needs. (In the case of Miami, it's not a "want;" It's a "need.")

If you let Trent go for a bargain-basement price, you'll be setting a precedent that'll be difficult to overcome. The Chiefs' F.O. will come off as weak negotiators that will offer bargains if you just wait them out.

Fair or not, I agree with Mr. Flopnuts.

The problem, again, is that the ultimate card in this game costs the Chiefs $7+ million. Will they have the cajones to play it?

They'd better make Miami believe they will.

[luv]

He's right, IMO, Direckshun.

You guys are dealing your starting QB from last season to a team that is desperately seeking a QB for next season. You guys have a commodity in hand that a buyer needs. (In the case of Miami, it's not a "want;" It's a "need.")

If you let Trent go for a bargain-basement price, you'll be setting a precedent that'll be difficult to overcome. The Chiefs' F.O. will come off as weak negotiators that will offer bargains if you just wait them out.

Fair or not, I agree with Mr. Flopnuts.

The problem, again, is that the ultimate card in this game costs the Chiefs $7+ million. Will they have the cajones to play it?

They'd better make Miami believe they will.
I never realized how much the offseason was comparable to a game of poker.

[Direckshun]

He's right, IMO, Direckshun.

You guys are dealing your starting QB from last season to a team that is desperately seeking a QB for next season. You guys have a commodity in hand that a buyer needs. (In the case of Miami, it's not a "want;" It's a "need.")

If you let Trent go for a bargain-basement price, you'll be setting a precedent that'll be difficult to overcome. The Chiefs' F.O. will come off as weak negotiators that will offer bargains if you just wait them out.
You know what, I still disagree. And I'm even starting to think the Carl loses face if he deals Trent away for the 6th. I contend that our future negotiations will not be negatively affected by this trade -- other than the possibility that we'll never want to deal with Miami again.

If Carl keeps Trent, he tells the rest of the league "give us bad offers? we'd rather keep him."

If Carl cuts Trent, he tells the rest of the league "the Chiefs simply do not stand for bad offers." If it costs us a 6th, it costs us a 6th, but we'll be less likely to face teams sitting on their lowball offers and never moving, convinced we'll give in.

But even if what I thought was the worst scenario occurs, which is Carl giving in and trading Trent for the 6th, I still don't think we'll lose face. The league realized that Miami had all the leverage once Trent chimed in, and now we know that everybody's just waiting for the cut date -- getting a 6th instead of nothing is making the most of a bad situation.

The above are the ways I could honestly spin the situation, with minimal thought to the subject, on a late Sunday night. Carl won't lose much ground on this.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

If Carl keeps Trent, he tells the rest of the league "give us bad offers? we'd rather keep him."




Carl has made it pretty clear (honest? who knows) that he is not sure he wants to get rid of Trent. If the money is accounted for and we decide to pay it to keep him, I don't think it's a bad option personally.

[ClevelandBronco]

You know what, I still disagree. And I'm even starting to think the Carl loses face if he deals Trent away for the 6th. I contend that our future negotiations will not be negatively affected by this trade -- other than the possibility that we'll never want to deal with Miami again.

If Carl keeps Trent, he tells the rest of the league "give us bad offers? we'd rather keep him."

If Carl cuts Trent, he tells the rest of the league "the Chiefs simply do not stand for bad offers." If it costs us a 6th, it costs us a 6th, but we'll be less likely to face teams sitting on their lowball offers and never moving, convinced we'll give in.

But even if what I thought was the worst scenario occurs, which is Carl giving in and trading Trent for the 6th, I still don't think we'll lose face. The league realized that Miami had all the leverage once Trent chimed in, and now we know that everybody's just waiting for the cut date -- getting a 6th instead of nothing is making the most of a bad situation.

The above are the ways I could honestly spin the situation, with minimal thought to the subject, on a late Sunday night. Carl won't lose much ground on this.

You offer plausible support for each of your scenarios. Good job.

[luv]

Carl has made it pretty clear (honest? who knows) that he is not sure he wants to get rid of Trent. If the money is accounted for and we decide to pay it to keep him, I don't think it's a bad option personally.
In the mean time, we have a rookie QB going yet another year without gaining any experience.

[Valiant]

You know what, I still disagree. And I'm even starting to think the Carl loses face if he deals Trent away for the 6th. I contend that our future negotiations will not be negatively affected by this trade -- other than the possibility that we'll never want to deal with Miami again.

If Carl keeps Trent, he tells the rest of the league "give us bad offers? we'd rather keep him."

If Carl cuts Trent, he tells the rest of the league "the Chiefs simply do not stand for bad offers." If it costs us a 6th, it costs us a 6th, but we'll be less likely to face teams sitting on their lowball offers and never moving, convinced we'll give in.

But even if what I thought was the worst scenario occurs, which is Carl giving in and trading Trent for the 6th, I still don't think we'll lose face. The league realized that Miami had all the leverage once Trent chimed in, and now we know that everybody's just waiting for the cut date -- getting a 6th instead of nothing is making the most of a bad situation.

The above are the ways I could honestly spin the situation, with minimal thought to the subject, on a late Sunday night. Carl won't lose much ground on this.


It would depend on WHEN Carl cuts Trent.. I do not believe a trade is even in the works now, unless Miami wants to get him into camp under a reasonable amount of time..

Cut Trent now or very soon, then we caved..
Cut Trent right before the regular season it would show that Carl is not messing around...
Trade Trent for anything lower then a 6th would show that Carl caved also..
Carl can also save face and show the rest of the Gm's not to **** with him by keeping Trent even if he is disgruntled at his contract...(this will probably not happen)

---------------

Carl needs to save face by either getting a higher pick from Miami in the future by holding on to him as long as possible... There are tons of injuries each year during training camp...

If Carl is going to cut Trent it needs to be done during the last very possible day of the preseason, of course if Carl is going to do this he is going to have to do it publically the way the Titans handled it last year with McNair...

[Direckshun]

And another thing.

The idea that cutting Green gives us $$$ to pay LJ is a nonstarter.

With some of the trades, retirements, and releases we've seen over the last 12 months, and will see over the next 12 months, we've got plenty of cap space to talk with LJ. We're in great condition there -- the only issue remaining with LJ, that of finding an appropriate contract, has nothing to do with Trent Green.

[el borracho]

I'm caring less and less what Carl does with Trent as long as Croyle starts a ton of games this year. If Trent stays to be an overpaid backup it won't bother me (it's not my money) and if we release Trent before the season I certainly won't cry about the 6th round pick we didn't get.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

In the mean time, we have a rookie QB going yet another year without gaining any experience.


On the flip side, with our offensive line the shambles that it is, another year may not be a bad thing with his injury history, and lack of experience. I feel putting him in the best position to succeed is paramount. I'm not sure this line does that.

[Direckshun]

It would depend on WHEN Carl cuts Trent.. I do not believe a trade is even in the works now, unless Miami wants to get him into camp under a reasonable amount of time..

Cut Trent now or very soon, then we caved..
Cut Trent right before the regular season it would show that Carl is not messing around...
Trade Trent for anything lower then a 6th would show that Carl caved also..
Carl can also save face and show the rest of the Gm's not to **** with him by keeping Trent even if he is disgruntled at his contract...(this will probably not happen)

---------------

Carl needs to save face by either getting a higher pick from Miami in the future by holding on to him as long as possible... There are tons of injuries each year during training camp...

If Carl is going to cut Trent it needs to be done during the last very possible day of the preseason, of course if Carl is going to do this he is going to have to do it publically the way the Titans handled it last year with McNair...
Well if Carl simply cuts Trent now or very soon, he's stupid. Forget caving. It makes no sense to cut Trent any time before it's necessary.

But again, if we traded Trent for a 7th because that's all we could get, and you can call it caving if you want, but it's not going to damn us in future negotiations because any casual observer knows it's Trent, not Carl, that torpedoed our chances at leverage.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Well if Carl simply cuts Trent now or very soon, he's stupid. Forget caving. It makes no sense to cut Trent any time before it's necessary.

But again, if we traded Trent for a 7th because that's all we could get, and you can call it caving if you want, but it's not going to damn us in future negotiations because any casual observer knows it's Trent, not Carl, that torpedoed our chances at leverage.


Encouraging future players to do this isn't a good idea either. Set the tone now, and it is less likely to be an issue later. Players are players, so maybe not. I just don't see a point in releasing him. It's not going to be that big of a difference to our cap THIS year. I think there is upside to keeping him around, disgruntled or not.

[Direckshun]

Encouraging future players to do this isn't a good idea either. Set the tone now, and it is less likely to be an issue later.
Ah. Also a consideration. Well done.

I hadn't thought of that.

[luv]

On the flip side, with our offensive line the shambles that it is, another year may not be a bad thing with his injury history, and lack of experience. I feel putting him in the best position to succeed is paramount. I'm not sure this line does that.
So we give him good receivers to throw too until he gets comfortable making quick releases from the pocket. Say like KJ for a year or two. He was able to do wonders with little help offensively in college.

[ClevelandBronco]

Well if Carl simply cuts Trent now or very soon, he's stupid. Forget caving. It makes no sense to cut Trent any time before it's necessary.

But again, if we traded Trent for a 7th because that's all we could get, and you can call it caving if you want, but it's not going to damn us in future negotiations because any casual observer knows it's Trent, not Carl, that torpedoed our chances at leverage.

That's the shakiest of the assumptions you outlined above, IMO, even though you've argued it well.

You're talking about a starting QB last year, likely starting QB next year, but with huge questions: Damage? Age?

If a guy like Green can dictate where he goes, even though he suffers from huge question marks, aren't you worried that a younger guy with fewer question marks who finds a trading partner can bend the K.C. F.O. over even further?

K.C. can't afford to make this look like they caved in to Green, a player with questionable leverage. And they can't make it look like they caved in to Miami, a team that still desperately needs what K.C. is selling.

If they're going to cave at all, they have to play it like they caved in to the salary cap. Not another team, and certainly not to a player they own.

[luv]

I'm enjoying this thread. Although there needs to be a bit more name-calling to add to the entertainment value. :p

[Direckshun]

That's the shakiest of the assumptions you outlined above, IMO, even though you've argued it well.

You're talking about a starting QB last year, likely starting QB next year, but with huge questions: Damage? Age?

If a guy like Green can dictate where he goes, even though he suffers from huge question marks, aren't you worried that a younger guy with fewer question marks who finds a trading partner can bend the K.C. F.O. over even further?

K.C. can't afford to make this look like they caved in to Green, a player with questionable leverage. And they can't make it look like they caved in to Miami, a team that still desperately needs what K.C. is selling.

If they're going to cave at all, they have to play it like they caved in to the salary cap. Not another team, and certainly not to a player they own.
FYI -- I'm talking with a fellow ChiefsPlaneteer on instant messenger right now, and I've been told that our conversation could use less civility and more hostility. Just to make things more interesting. So from here on, your mother's a whore and you can bite me.

But you bring up a great point that Mr. Flopnuts brought up a few posts ago that I hadn't thought of: it's not Miami that Carl would be caving to, it would be Trent Green. We're not running risks with other teams' front offices at this point, we're running risks with future players screwing us out of fair deals.

I agree. That's the unfortunate tight-rope act that Carl has to walk right now.

Using that point you guys have brought up, I can't see going for the 6th or 7th as advantageous in any long term sense of dealing with future players.

So what, then? From that perspective, is there anything we can do to prevent other players from doing this to us in this type of situation?

I say no, but we don't have to worry about that. This is a unique situation we've been put in, not a common one. Teams rarely let their own players go out and find deals -- and this situation is exactly why. Trent's been so good to the organization that we gave him some rope, and he tripped us with it.

So I say screw the consequences in that light -- if we're truly afraid of other players doing what Trent's doing right now, don't give them the same opportunities by allowing them to find their own deals.

[greg63]

I'm enjoying this thread. Although there needs to be a bit more name-calling to add to the entertainment value. :p


Postwhore!!!!!! :)

[Direckshun]

I'm enjoying this thread. Although there needs to be a bit more name-calling to add to the entertainment value. :p
Well my anonymous source has given herself up.

[luv]

Well my anonymous source has given herself up.
"Your mother's a whore"??? You can do better. That sounds too Redrum-esque. :p

[ClevelandBronco]

FYI -- I'm talking with a fellow ChiefsPlaneteer on instant messenger right now, and I've been told that our conversation could use less civility and more hostility. Just to make things more interesting. So from here on, your mother's a whore and you can bite me.

I'll read your argument in a minute, but I have to warn you, you just made me laugh, and if I woke up my wife, it's going to mean your ass.

[Direckshun]

"Your mother's a whore"??? You can do better. That sounds too Redrum-esque. :p
I'm going to wait for CB to step up to the plate here before I begin to care.

[luv]

I'm going to wait for CB to step up to the plate here before I begin to care.
I'm kinda hopin' you made him wake up his wife.

[ClevelandBronco]

So I say screw the consequences in that light -- if we're truly afraid of other players doing what Trent's doing right now, don't give them the same opportunities by allowing them to find their own deals.

I'm afraid that you're exactly right. Don't let players try to find their own deals. The team always has to have the upper hand. Players are employees. Some employees are very popular, but the team will still be more popular in every case.

The team has to operate from a position of superiority in every negotiation.

[ClevelandBronco]

I'm kinda hopin' you made him wake up his wife.

Thanks, luv. Your compassion is underwhelming.

[luv]

Thanks, luv. Your compassion is underwhelming.
I do what I can. :p

[Direckshun]

I'm afraid that you're exactly right. Don't let players try to find their own deals. The team always has to have the upper hand. Players are employees. Some employees are very popular, but the team will still be more popular in every case.

The team has to operate from a position of superiority in every negotiation.
Yeah. But if I asked you to create the profile of a player who could concievably fit an exception to this rule, I dare you not to think of Trent Green.

Maybe the error was thinking that that exception exists.

Trent's a great guy, but he knows as much as anybody that it's a business and he took his slack and ran with it. It'll get him an okay deal in Miami and it'll get Kansas City a shitty deal in return.

Good news is, it's a problem Carl won't have to worry about in the future long as he doesn't allow players to be proactively involved in their own trades.

[ClevelandBronco]

Yeah. But if I asked you to create the profile of a player who could concievably fit an exception to this rule, I dare you not to think of Trent Green.

Maybe the error was thinking that that exception exists.

There's no 38-year-old concussed QB who is more important than the league's market forces. If that's all you're saying is possible, I agree.

I think the error on the Chiefs part was in thinking that the market for Trent would still exist after the draft. The draft actually made it a market of one team that was interested.

Cleveland could have paid something for Green before the draft...

[Direckshun]

Honestly there's still pretty much the same handful of teams that could use Trent, and would be interested in him if the price was alright (read: low). Trent's just pretty much announced he'll only renegotiate his contract with Miami, and that's what buzzed off the other teams.

If Carl lowered his demands and Trent opened his mind to other teams, you'd probably see a couple more of those teams pop up. Cleveland included.

[ClevelandBronco]

Honestly there's still pretty much the same handful of teams that could use Trent, and would be interested in him if the price was alright (read: low). Trent's just pretty much announced he'll only renegotiate his contract with Miami, and that's what buzzed off the other teams.

If Carl lowered his demands and Trent opened his mind to other teams, you'd probably see a couple more of those teams pop up. Cleveland included.

I agree. Cleveland could still use Trent, but they won't pay for him. Hell, Denver could use Trent badly, IMO.

[luv]

I just want to thank you guys for a very informative, and mildly entertaining thread. I've enjoyed it. 'Night all.

[ClevelandBronco]

Denver could use Trent badly, IMO.

Let me rephrase: Denver needs a guy like Trent badly, IMO.

We all know you guys think we could use him badly. We used Jake badly...

[ClevelandBronco]

I just want to thank you guys for a very informative, and mildly entertaining thread. I've enjoyed it. 'Night all.

Night, luv.

[Mecca]

When a guy has a giant base salary like Trent Green does he can basically choose where he's going.........this whole idea of sending him to another team isn't realistic.

[Miles]

I'm amused that most of the Green threads include comments about his age which add two years.

[blueballs]

no one feels bad for Dante Culpepper
who will be cut right before the season

[old_geezer]

I'm amused that most of the Green threads include comments about his age which add two years.


Direct from the Chief's official site:

Green, Trent QB 6-3 217 07/09/70 14 Indiana

He'll be 37 in two months - he's old, very,very old (for a football player)
IMO the Chiefs screwed the pooch when they allowed Green to find his own market. Now they won't get more than what Miami wants to give them.

When is Green's salary gaurenteed for the year? Is it the start of training camp or the start of the season? What I would do is keep Green through the exhibition season just in case one of our other QBs goes down with an injury - very possible IMO. If we're healthy then and his salary doesn't count against us for the year, cut him then. We're not going to get much for him at this point so we might as well use him for an insurance policy. If he doesn't like it - tough.

[Frosty]

People are acting like cutting Green will save the Chiefs the entire $7.2 million. With the accelerated bonuses and such, I doubt it will be more than a couple million. At that savings, and considering Herm's history with QBs, they should just keep him, unless Miami really offers something.

[Buehler445]

There has been a lot of good discussion about the root of the problem: Allowing Trent to find a deal that he wanted. I hope Peterson is smart enough not to let this type of garbage happen again.

[boogblaster]

It would be nice to trade him for a decent Olineman .....

[Mr. Laz]

it's kind funny that Trent Green is all pissed off because he's not traded yet .......


when HE is the reason the trade hasn't happened yet.


he trashed his own trade by helping Miami so much.

[Chiefnj]

it's kind funny that Trent Green is all pissed off because he's not traded yet .......


when HE is the reason the trade hasn't happened yet.


he trashed his own trade by helping Miami so much.

How did he trash his own trade ??

[Direckshun]

How did he trash his own trade ??
Welcome to ChiefsPlanet, noob!

[Mr. Laz]

How did he trash his own trade ??

by committing to 1 team only

by telling Miami that he was done in KC

by telling Miami that he already knew 80% of the playbook so he didn't need be into camp early



he gave Miami so much leverage that they felt comfortably in low balling the offer ... which led to KC's rejection ... which led to this stalemate.


if Chiefs showing their hands so quickly didn't help either

[Logical]

Most interested? Bullshit. If that was the case, this deal would've been done. Trent can say he understands this is business all he wants, but comments like that show he really doesn't. It's all lip service. No, I'd say the team that was the MOST interested in Mr. Green was one of the teams he REFUSED to even talk too. I'm sick of him making this out like Miami wants him the most. He wants Miami the most. The Dolphins don't seem to give a SHIT about HIM. He has the right to do this, I understand why he's doing this, but I'm sick of his whining about the Chiefs doing what they're entitled to do as well. I'll be curious to see his stance should we tell him we're gonna pay him his money.

Can you provide a link and documented evidence that another team (other than possibly the Raiders) wanted Green as much or more than Miami? I suspect you are talking out of school.

[Chiefnj]

by committing to 1 team only

by telling Miami that he was done in KC

by telling Miami that he already knew 80% of the playbook so he didn't need be into camp early



he gave Miami so much leverage that they felt comfortably in low balling the offer ... which led to KC's rejection ... which led to this stalemate.


if Chiefs showing their hands so quickly didn't help either

1. It was his right to commit to one team only. Carl said go out and find a club and agree on a deal, he didn't say find mulitple clubs.

2. The Chiefs told him he was done first. Asking him to take a huge paycut, plus a young kid is going to get 80% of the snaps means the team is heading in a new direction - you are done.

3. Miami knows he is familiar with the playbook and system. That's why they want him. Trent didn't have to tell them he knows the system.

Trent didn't give Miami anything they didn't have. They've gotten burned many times giving up picks for QB's and they don't want to do it anymore. They know KC is going with a different system and players on offense. They know KC isn't going to want to spend 7+ million on a backup. They know Green is familiar with Cam and Shea and they work well together and each is familiar with the Dolphins offense.

[NewChief]

They know KC isn't going to want to spend 7+ million on a backup.

Evidently many here and some in the front office are considering doing just that.

[luv]

Evidently many here and some in the front office are considering doing just that.
No, no, no.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Can you provide a link and documented evidence that another team (other than possibly the Raiders) wanted Green as much or more than Miami? I suspect you are talking out of school.


Can you give me any indication that Miami wanted him more than anyone else? Do you think that Miami would really hold a higher value on a 4th round pick than a starting qb for this year? Other teams expressed interest, since Trent wouldn't talk to them at all, it's not very fair to assume the team that offered a 6th round draft pick had the most interest. If they were THAT interested this deal would be done. Clarify my view point for you?

[Mr. Laz]

1. It was his right to commit to one team only. Carl said go out and find a club and agree on a deal, he didn't say find mulitple clubs.

2. The Chiefs told him he was done first. Asking him to take a huge paycut, plus a young kid is going to get 80% of the snaps means the team is heading in a new direction - you are done.

3. Miami knows he is familiar with the playbook and system. That's why they want him. Trent didn't have to tell them he knows the system.

Trent didn't give Miami anything they didn't have. They've gotten burned many times giving up picks for QB's and they don't want to do it anymore. They know KC is going with a different system and players on offense. They know KC isn't going to want to spend 7+ million on a backup. They know Green is familiar with Cam and Shea and they work well together and each is familiar with the Dolphins offense.
and you've missed my point entirely

i never said Green didn't have the right ... that the Chiefs didn't screw up.


I said ........ that Trent Green hurt himself


Bottom line is that Green wants out of KC and he would of already been out of KC if he had helped KC get a better offer in trade.

Sometimes it's better to play along instead fight.

[Direckshun]

Bottom line is that Green wants out of KC and he would of already been out of KC if he had helped KC get a better offer in trade.

Sometimes it's better to play along instead fight.
Rep.

[Chiefnj]

and you've missed my point entirely

i never said Green didn't have the right ... that the Chiefs didn't screw up.


I said ........ that Trent Green hurt himself


Bottom line is that Green wants out of KC and he would of already been out of KC if he had helped KC get a better offer in trade.

Sometimes it's better to play along instead fight.

How can Green have gotten Miami to make a better offer?

Miami wants him, but not bad enough to give up a pick for him. They are willing to take the chance that he won't be released or is released very late. Green wants Miami more than the Miami GM wants Green.

[Mr. Laz]

How can Green have gotten Miami to make a better offer?

Miami wants him, but not bad enough to give up a pick for him. They are willing to take the chance that he won't be released or is released very late. Green wants Miami more than the Miami GM wants Green.
c'mon man .... you can't be that naive.

Miami is willing to wait until Green is released because Green has rejected every other team.


If Green has visited Cleveland when they asked or any of the other teams then Miami would of had to compete for Green not just squeeze the Chiefs.

Green's market value would of gone us with more than one team interested and the Chiefs would of gotten offered a 4th instead a 6th at some point and Green would of been traded already.


nope .... one of the biggest mistakes the Chiefs made was not "playing" Trent Green in all this. I think they figured that Trent would just look for trade offers and then let the Chiefs work out a deal. Instead Green partnered up with Miami and did his best to squeeze the Chiefs the best he could.

i'm not saying who's right or wrong ...... i just saying that if Trent Green really wanted out of KC he should of played along to get along.


he didn't ...... and carl peterson isn't a good enough negotiator to make the thing work either.

stalemate

[luv]

nope .... one of the biggest mistakes the Chiefs made was not "playing" Trent Green in all this. I think they figured that Trent would just look for trade offers and then let the Chiefs work out a deal. Instead Green partnered up with Miami and did his best to squeeze the Chiefs the best he could.
Why on earth would you let a player do his own bidding. I don't care who he is or how much class he's shown. He has a family to support, and he has his own wants. In that situation, of course he's not interested in what KC feels they need. I agree, though. He would have gotten further if he'd have just went along.

i'm not saying who's right or wrong ...... i just saying that if Trent Green really wanted out of KC he should of played along to get along.


he didn't ...... and carl peterson isn't a good enough negotiator to make the thing work either.

stalemate
I'd say that CP is responsible. If he would have played him around, like he would have any other player, they wouldn't be in this mess. I like Trent Green and all, but why give him that special treatment.

Forgive me if I'm way off base.

[Mr. Laz]

I'd say that CP is responsible. If he would have played him around, like he would have any other player, they wouldn't be in this mess. I like Trent Green and all, but why give him that special treatment.

Forgive me if I'm way off base.
no .... you're not off base, the Chiefs realy screwed up early on.


first, they signed Damon Huard to a deal that said to Trent and the rest of the league "Trent Green is expendable".

imo they should of agreed to a deal with Huard but not signed it, not announced it until later.


2nd, they handled Trent Green way wrong .. rather they didn't handle him at all. They should of been much more open to keeping Green. They should of made it clear that they would keep Green unless some kind of real value was offered in trade. They should of known that Green or his agent would be talking to the other teams and carry that info along with them.


3rd, should of announced to the league MUCH,MUCH earlier that Green was a Chief and would be the favorite as starter if the season started today. (note: Carl did eventually say this ... but didn't do it until the week of the draft. Way too late, Green and Miami has already partnered up and scared all the other teams off)

[htismaqe]

first, they signed Damon Huard to a deal that said to Trent and the rest of the league "Trent Green is expendable".

They signed Huard to a 3-year, $7.5M deal. That's a BACKUP contract. How exactly does that make last year's starter "expendable"?

[Easy 6]

I still want to like Trent, but as far as i'm concerned he can be the most highly paid backup in the NFL.

This has gone far beyond a simple trade, its now a matter of dignity & respect...of which the CHIEFS will have none if they let the fins get him.

A side of me says its very petty...the other side says TO HELL WITH THE fins & THEIR PATHETIC OFFER!!!

They think were gonna cut him & they can snatch him up...FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CARL make them eat shit.

We deserved a better offer, the whole world knows it.

As the guy who popped Pesci in Goodfellas said..."and thats that!!!"

[Mr. Laz]

They signed Huard to a 3-year, $7.5M deal. That's a BACKUP contract. How exactly does that make last year's starter "expendable"?
that's whopper backup money

2+ million per says chance to start


followed by "Trent can look for a trade"


together says fire sale on a QB ...... bid low.

[Deberg_1990]

that's whopper backup money

2+ million per says chance to start


followed by "Trent can look for a trade"


together says fire sale on a QB ...... bid low.

If they hadnt signed Huard so fast, he probably would have jumped to another team. He wouldnt still be a Chief.

[Mr. Laz]

If they hadnt signed Huard so fast, he probably would have jumped to another team. He wouldnt still be a Chief.
why do people insist on making this so difficult.


you agree to a contract with Huard but you just don't submit it.


you always hear of the "agreed in principle"


well people know you've signed Huard BUT they don't know how much for. That leaves people assuming that it's 1 year/1 million dollar traditional backup money.

then you have preliminary talks with Green but don't burn bridges.


You find out Green's position and then THE CHIEFS look around for a place to trade Trent. That way the team controls the situation and Green doesn't get to talk to the other team until you say he can.

That way Green and his agent can't go to Miami and say "i'm not going back" and give Miami the impression they can bid low.


i bet Miami would of offered a 4th if we would of done it that way.


Heck if cleveland steps in without Green telling them to get lost we may have gotten a little bit of a bidding war and gotten more than that.


We screwed up and Green ****ed us for it.



.

[bigbucks24]

[QUOTE=ClevelandBronco]If a guy like Green can dictate where he goes, even though he suffers from huge question marks, aren't you worried that a younger guy with fewer question marks who finds a trading partner can bend the K.C. F.O. over even further?[QUOTE]
Isn't this a little far fetched? Isn't Carl the one that gave Trent permission to seek a trade? Young players can't just decide to go out and find a trade partner. It's called tampering. It comes with stiff penalties. but yes, if Carl does give other players a chance to find a trade partner and negotiate themselves a deal, then they can bend the FO over. Doesn't Carl shoulder any of the burden of responsibility for granting Trent permission? Yes, Miami is playing hardball and being stubborn. Yes, Trent Undermined the Chiefs by refusing to renegotiate with anyone else. Please understand that I am not saying this is all Carl's fault and eveyrone else is faultless, but to say this sets a precedence that all players are going to try this in the future is far fetched to say the least.

[shaneo69]

They signed Huard to a 3-year, $7.5M deal. That's a BACKUP contract.

Not sure, but I don't remember Todd Collins ever signing a contract like that with us. Seems like each year he got a 1 year, $1 mil contract, or something like that.

[shaneo69]

But if Green shows up July 20, no one with any football sense thinks he wouldn't have enough time to learn everything he needs to learn to play for the Dolphins by opening day.

[Oxford]

I say keep him. If he fails to report, then he goes on the failed to report list. If he voluntarily retires, then he goes on the reserve-retired list. Miami must pay market value for him as determined by the club that holds his rights.

The Chiefs have to decide how much the draft pick is worth to them versus the amount they'll have to pay for him to sit. If Miami really wanted him and cared about him, they'd raise the pick they are willing to give.

Trent cares for Trent, Miami cares for Miami and the Chiefs care for the Chiefs. Nothing abnormal or wrong about any of it.

[Halfcan]

Trent Green's take on Peter puffer King

What a dumbfug!!

[bigbucks24]

I say keep him. If he fails to report, then he goes on the failed to report list. If he voluntarily retires, then he goes on the reserve-retired list. Miami must pay market value for him as determined by the club that holds his rights.

The Chiefs have to decide how much the draft pick is worth to them versus the amount they'll have to pay for him to sit. If Miami really wanted him and cared about him, they'd raise the pick they are willing to give.

Trent cares for Trent, Miami cares for Miami and the Chiefs care for the Chiefs. Nothing abnormal or wrong about any of it.
Market value is set by what someone is willing to pay for him--not by what the club think's he worth. Right now, the market value for Trent Green is either a 6th round draft choice or nothing (depending if Miami still has the offer on the table. Now, KC might not decide to sell him at the market price, and that is their right.

And you are correct in the fact that the Chiefs must weigh the liability to them against the reward (however small) of trading him.

It's like having an extra car. You want to sell it but the jerk up the road will only give you $200 for it. You think it's worth $1000 but can't get anyone else to offer that price. You can either keep the car and use garage space (or driveway space) and pay for it's upkeep and pay the license fee, or sell it to the jerk for $200. It's your choice. You have the title and you are under no obligation to sell him the car. He also doesn't have to pay the $1000 you are demanding. He can always walk. It's gonna get cold so he'll probably want the car but he can always walk. You might think him an idiot for walking in the snow--heck, you might even mock him (go ahead, walk in the snow, have fun freezing, idiot. F*** you!). But in the end, he can not buy the car and you can not sell it. That's kinda where we are.

[beer bacon]

Market value is set by what someone is willing to pay for him--not by what the club think's he worth. Right now, the market value for Trent Green is either a 6th round draft choice or nothing (depending if Miami still has the offer on the table. Now, KC might not decide to sell him at the market price, and that is their right.

And you are correct in the fact that the Chiefs must weigh the liability to them against the reward (however small) of trading him.

It's like having an extra car. You want to sell it but the jerk up the road will only give you $200 for it. You think it's worth $1000 but can't get anyone else to offer that price. You can either keep the car and use garage space (or driveway space) and pay for it's upkeep and pay the license fee, or sell it to the jerk for $200. It's your choice. You have the title and you are under no obligation to sell him the car. He also doesn't have to pay the $1000 you are demanding. He can always walk. It's gonna get cold so he'll probably want the car but he can always walk. You might think him an idiot for walking in the snow--heck, you might even mock him (go ahead, walk in the snow, have fun freezing, idiot. F*** you!). But in the end, he can not buy the car and you can not sell it. That's kinda where we are.

If you are a businessmen that makes sales on a regular basis, you don't sell a quality product for a quarter its value, even if that is the only offer you are getting. You have to consider what that sale will do to your future reputation.