Trent to Force King Carl's Hand?

[MADDOG MIKE]

The below can be found at http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm .

But I'll post the info here...


GREEN WILL FORCE KING CARL'S HAND

Quarterback Trent Green wants out of Kansas City. The Chiefs are ready to move on, too.

But G.M. Carl Peterson wants to get a fourth-round pick from the Dolphins for the guy who no longer will be the starting quarterback of the Chiefs.

Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that Green will force the issue by reporting for the team's voluntary Organized Training Activities. The risk? If Green suffers a serious injury during the workouts, the Chiefs will owe his full $7.2 million salary for the 2007 season.

The Titans were in the same situation last year with quarterback Steve McNair, and the team opted to prevent him from working out at the facility. McNair filed a grievance, won it, and was eventually traded to the Ravens.

Schefter also reports that the Fins might move off of their offer of a sixth-round pick for Green.

Our guess? Peterson will cave soon, and the teams will meet in the middle for a fifth-round selection.

[Mr. Laz]

ROFL

you know Green will report


when Trent Green recently said that he was done with KC and wasn't going to report to camp with just him talking out his ass.



the best way to pressure the chiefs is to make them pay him.

[MADDOG MIKE]

ROFL

you know Green with report


when Trent Green recently said that he done with KC and wasn't going to report to camp with just him talking out his ass.

the best way to pressure the chiefs is to make them pay him.



Yeah. I guess if he gets hurt bad, the Chiefs will owe his 7.2 mil salary.
Do you think Carl will take the risk or ship him off ?

[noa]

First, I would be fine with a 5th rounder.

Second, I can't imagine Trent would be so unprofessional and vindictive as to "injure" himself just to collect his paycheck and make us regret our decision. Just doesn't sound like Trent. He's too classy for that. If he gets injured during the normal course of events, well that's a risk we run just like any other player on our roster.

[Tribal Warfare]

Our guess? Peterson will cave soon, and the teams will meet in the middle for a fifth-round selection.




Kind of a dirty tactic.... Don't ya think?


I think the NFL Network doesn't know Carl Peterson that well

[Mr. Laz]

Yeah. I guess if he gets hurt bad, the Chiefs will owe his 7.2 mil salary.
Do you think Carl will take the risk or ship him off ?
at this point i'd flip a coin

the only thing that's bigger than Peterson's desire to make money is his desire to feed his ego.


he could very well keep Green just for spite


the key is Herman Edwards imo ...... it will be him that will sway the issue one way or the other. If he considers Green a distraction then he will tell Carl to get him out.

[MADDOG MIKE]

First, I would be fine with a 5th rounder.

Second, I can't imagine Trent would be so unprofessional and vindictive as to "injure" himself just to collect his paycheck and make us regret our decision. Just doesn't sound like Trent. He's too classy for that.

You're right, Trent is classy...
I don't think he would fake an injury.
BUT, if he gets injured, training camp or preseason,
he is owed his money...
At least that is what I took from the above article...

[MADDOG MIKE]

at this point i'd flip a coin

the only thing that's bigger than Peterson's desire to make money is his desire to feed his ego.


he could very well keep Green just for spite


the key is Herman Edwards imo ...... it will be him that will sway the issue one way or the other. If he considers Green a distraction then he will tell Carl to get him out.


Very good point, Laz..

[htismaqe]

It's time for Carl Peterson to admit that he lost.

Take what you can get and get rid of the guy before he becomes a big distraction.

[Logical]

I am rooting for Trent to get what he desires. Class guy, whereas Carl has and always will be an ass. I am sorry that will possibly hurt the Chiefs but that is just the way I feel.

[the Talking Can]

what's the big deal?

if he shows up, work him out....he wants to be in Miami, we aren't losing anything...

how has Miami, which wants a starting QB for free, and which has refused to negotiate, the "good guy" here?

Carl is being blamed for.....for....negotiating a fair price for a starting QB??

and Trent - Mr. Goodboy - has enabled Miami throughout all of this.

**** them both. Miami WANTS Green to be their starting QB.

You only lose if you don't call their bluff. And losing a 7th isn't losing anyways.

I'd tell Miami to **** off and call when they're serious. And I'd tell Trent to do whatever he wants - fish, play Nintendo, come to camp - but he isn't going anywhere till we receive value for him. No one on this team is going cry themselves to sleep at night thinking about Trent. Nobody.

[Brock]

Here's your clipboard, Trent. Try not to get a paper cut.

[the Talking Can]

I am rooting for Trent to get what he desires. Class guy, whereas Carl has and always will be an ass. I am sorry that will possibly hurt the Chiefs but that is just the way I feel.

This is exactly what Trent and Miami are counting on. They're using fan perception to swindle the Chiefs.

Amazing our fans equate our GM doing his job with "being an ass."

We're losers. Total ****ing losers.

[the Talking Can]

Here's your clipboard, Trent. Try not to get a paper cut.

thank you, that's the concise version of what I was trying to say... ROFL

[Tribal Warfare]

It's time for Carl Peterson to admit that he lost.

Take what you can get and get rid of the guy before he becomes a big distraction.


Carl hasn't lost shit, it's gonna Miami's F*CKUP.

[Logical]

Here's your clipboard, Trent. Try not to get a paper cut.Brock can I have a clipboard? I can handle it for $7.2 mil no sweat.

[Brock]

Brock can I have a clipboard? I can handle it for $7.2 mil no sweat.

I bet you could, but you won't be getting it because you'll be getting cut in late August.

[Slick32]

I'd tell Miami to **** off and call when they're serious. And I'd tell Trent to do whatever he wants - fish, play Nintendo, come to camp - but he isn't going anywhere till we receive value for him. No one on this team is cry themselves to sleep at night thinking about Trent. Nobody.

I don't remember anyone saying that they were crying themselves to sleep regarding Trent.

I personally thing there has been a lot of wrongdoing regarding the expected transaction. To blame anyone for the circumstances that have happened is wrong. The Chiefs asked him to shop himself, he did. The Chiefs wanted a fair value for a starting QB, Trent is. The Dolphins got burned with trades like this in the past and were trying to keep from that possibility again. Everyone was covering their own ass. Would you be any different if you were working a deal in your life?

[htismaqe]

Carl hasn't lost shit, it's gonna Miami's F*CKUP.

Carl told Green to go out and get a deal. He did that.

Carl has PLENTY of leverage, if all he's interested in is NOT LOSING. He could keep Trent on the roster indefinitely and screw Miami and Trent in the process.

But if he's really interested in doing what's best for the players and coaches that will be here when the season starts, he'll get this drama over with. We're not gonna get a good pick at this point. It's not gonna happen.

[the Talking Can]

I don't remember anyone saying that they were crying themselves to sleep regarding Trent.

I personally thing there has been a lot of wrongdoing regarding the expected transaction. To blame anyone for the circumstances that have happened is wrong. The Chiefs asked him to shop himself, he did. The Chiefs wanted a fair value for a starting QB, Trent is. The Dolphins got burned with trades like this in the past and were trying to keep from that possibility again. Everyone was covering their own ass. Would you be any different if you were working a deal in your life?

Carl was wrong for negotiating and lower his price to a 4th?

A veteran starting QB is worth a 4th. Period.

Miami hasn't negotiated. They counted on everyone blaming Carl. And they were right. Even Chiefs fans think we should give Miami their starting QB for free.

[Slick32]

Carl told Green to go out and get a deal. He did that.

Carl has PLENTY of leverage, if all he's interested in is NOT LOSING. He could keep Trent on the roster indefinitely and screw Miami and Trent in the process.

But if he's really interested in doing what's best for the players and coaches that will be here when the season starts, he'll get this drama over with...

He isn't trying to do what is best for the Players and Coaches, he is trying to do what is best for the Chiefs.

[the Talking Can]

Carl told Green to go out and get a deal. He did that.

Carl has PLENTY of leverage, if all he's interested in is NOT LOSING. He could keep Trent on the roster indefinitely and screw Miami and Trent in the process.

But if he's really interested in doing what's best for the players and coaches that will be here when the season starts, he'll get this drama over with...

the only drama is in the media...if he's interested in doing what is best for the franchise he will get a fair value for Trent...

if he is afraid of the fans and Whitlock, he'll give Trent away....

[bigbucks24]

He isn't trying to do what is best for the Players and Coaches, he is trying to do what is best for the Chiefs.
Do you think paying a player who is 3rd string and doesn't want to be there $7.2 million is best for the Chiefs? I'm not being a smart-ass, I'm wondering your perspective. Is it the best thing for the Chiefs organization to pay that kind of money for someone that will not play and does not want to be there? Is it a good business decision being made to make people feel better?

If you were running my business and spent large amounts of money just to piss psople off or make yourself feel better or out of spite or to feed your ego, I would not want you running my business. I want someone who will make the best business decision for my company--without regards to their emotions.

[Slick32]

the only drama is in the media...if he's interested in doing what is best for the franchise he will get a fair value for Trent...

if he is afraid of the fans and Whitlock, he'll give Trent away....

I'm sure he isn't afraid of the fans or Whitlock.

[Brock]

Do you think paying a player who is 3rd string and doesn't want to be there $7.2 million is best for the Chiefs? I'm not being a smart-ass, I'm wondering your perspective. Is it the best thing for the Chiefs organization to pay that kind of money for someone that will not play and does not want to be there? Is it a good business decision being made to make people feel better?

If you were running my business and spent large amounts of money just to piss psople off or make yourself feel better or out of spite or to feed your ego, I would not want you running my business. I want someone who will make the best business decision for my company--without regards to their emotions.

Trent Green will never see that money. If the Dolphins want him in time for training camp, they need to make a reasonable offer. If not, they can wait until the season starts.

[htismaqe]

the only drama is in the media...if he's interested in doing what is best for the franchise he will get a fair value for Trent...

if he is afraid of the fans and Whitlock, he'll give Trent away....

Carl has no leverage to get "fair" value at this point. Miami will just wait.

There's nothing to gain from holding onto Trent out of spite.

Not losing <> winning.

[bigbucks24]

the only drama is in the media...if he's interested in doing what is best for the franchise he will get a fair value for Trent...

if he is afraid of the fans and Whitlock, he'll give Trent away....
I guess this is what I don't get. How is keeping him good for the franchise--unless you feel that the Dolphins or someone will eventually meet your asking price? If you think that is a posibility, then it make sense to hold onto him as long as you can. But do you really think someone is going to step up?

[htismaqe]

He isn't trying to do what is best for the Players and Coaches, he is trying to do what is best for the Chiefs.

The players and coaches ARE the Chiefs.

[Tribal Warfare]

The players and coaches ARE the Chiefs.


nope revenue, fan interest, and future value are the Chiefs

[htismaqe]

Trent Green will never see that money. If the Dolphins want him in time for training camp, they need to make a reasonable offer. If not, they can wait until the season starts.

The Dolphins are not going to offer what we want. Period.

So that means we're gonna keep him.

What do we possibly have to gain from that?

[BigRock]

When Trent was on the radio, he said Carl told him to forget the paycut and they'll pay him the $7M he's owed this season. So how exactly is the prospect of paying Trent the $7M going to scare Carl into getting a deal done?

[the Talking Can]

Do you think paying a player who is 3rd string and doesn't want to be there $7.2 million is best for the Chiefs?


if it takes away the only leverage Miami has, then yes....you hold him to the last second....

you're arguing like a Dolphin fan....

[Brock]

The Dolphins are not going to offer what we want. Period.

So that means we're gonna keep him.

What do we possibly have to gain from that?

Not helping the Dolphins.

[htismaqe]

nope revenue, fan interest, and future value are the Chiefs

Those are long-term business interests.

A 4th round pick doesn't affect any of those things in the slightest. A 4th round pick affects the coaches and players that are here right now.

Furthermore, holding fast, getting NOTHING, and being forced to cut the guy in August might actually HURT some of those long-term interests.

[the Talking Can]

Carl has no leverage to get "fair" value at this point. Miami will just wait.

There's nothing to gain from holding onto Trent out of spite.

Not losing <> winning.

they might wait, they might be bluffing....only one way to find out...holding Trent for fair value isn't spiteful, it's smart business...

amazing how self-hating Chiefs fans are....Carl working for the franchise equals "Carl being spiteful"....

like I said, Miami counted on Carl's reputation working against him...they were right...you and Logical are perfect evidence of that

[Mr. Laz]

The Dolphins are not going to offer what we want. Period.

So that means we're gonna keep him.

What do we possibly have to gain from that?
sending the big middle finger to the dolphins and trent

[bigbucks24]

if it takes away the only leverage Miami has, then yes....you hold him to the last second....

you're arguing like a Dolphin fan....
I am a Dolphin fan. I just want the perspective of the Chief fans. Besides, I live in KC so I keep tabs on them--especially when they involve former Dolphin players (Surtain, Knight, DMac). If you think there is a possibility that the Dolphins give in, then it makes sense. I can live with that. I just think it's silly to hold onto him or keep him into the season just to piss anyone off or feed anyone's ego.

[the Talking Can]

we lose nothing by holding on to Trent....we lose any chance of getting fair value by giving him up...

a 7th is worthless

[htismaqe]

Not helping the Dolphins.

You didn't answer my question.

I asked what we GAIN.

[the Talking Can]

I am a Dolphin fan. I just want the perspective of the Chief fans. Besides, I live in KC so I keep tabs on them--especially when they involve former Dolphin players (Surtain, Knight, DMac). If you think there is a possibility that the Dolphins give in, then it makes sense. I can live with that. I just think it's silly to hold onto him or keep him into the season just to piss anyone off or feed anyone's ego.

good lord...it isn't about Carl's ego....Carl can't win no matter what....

Carl negotiated and lowered his price, Miami never negotiated...but according to you, the media, and Chiefs fans Carl is to blame, Carl is spiteful, Carl is an ass.....


what a joke....

[Mr. Laz]

I am a Dolphin fan. I just want the perspective of the Chief fans. Besides, I live in KC so I keep tabs on them--especially when they involve former Dolphin players (Surtain, Knight, DMac). If you think there is a possibility that the Dolphins give in, then it makes sense. I can live with that. I just think it's silly to hold onto him or keep him into the season just to piss anyone off or feed anyone's ego.

what about if one of our QB's gets hurt in training camp and we end up needing Trent?

what if our young QB ends up needing more time and Trent would be our starter again?

what if another team loses their starting QB and the market value for Trent Green goes way up?


the dolphins can give us fair value or can go **** themselves ....

they are the ones trying to get something for nothing.

[Brock]

You didn't answer my question.

I asked what we GAIN.

And I answered you. They're the competition. Giving Trent to them for nothing in time for training camp just to be nice guys is about the dumbest ****ing idea I've ever heard.

[Mr. Laz]

You didn't answer my question.

I asked what we GAIN.
what about if one of our QB's gets hurt in training camp and we end up needing Trent?

what if our young QB ends up needing more time and Trent would be our starter again?

what if another team loses their starting QB and the market value for Trent Green goes way up?


the dolphins can give us fair value or can go **** themselves ....

they are the ones trying to get something for nothing.

[the Talking Can]

You didn't answer my question.

I asked what we GAIN.

we don't gain anything...we MAINTAIN the possibility that Miami give us more than a 7th, we KEEP what they want and call their bluff...there is absolutely NO REASON to give Trent away....NONE

[Logical]

I bet you could, but you won't be getting it because you'll be getting cut in late August.

I would still be enjoying my prorated signing bonus that comes out of the Chiefs salary cap. Probably still signing on with Miami in late August as well.

[the Talking Can]

what about if one of our QB's gets hurt in training camp and we end up needing Trent?

what if our young QB ends up needing more time and Trent would be our starter again?

what if another team loses their starting QB and the market value for Trent Green goes way up?


the dolphins can give us fair value or can go **** themselves ....

they are the ones trying to get something for nothing.

what if a Miami QB gets injured?? THEN WHAT IS TRENT'S VALUE?

I can't believe Chief fans are so beaten down that they're willing to give players away just becuase....

[Brock]

I would still be enjoying my prorated signing bonus that comes out of the Chiefs salary cap. Probably still signing on with Miami in late August as well.

So enjoy it. Just don't expect the Chiefs to bend over so you'll stop whining about your crush on the Dolphins.

[the Talking Can]

I would still be enjoying my prorated signing bonus that comes out of the Chiefs salary cap. Probably still signing on with Miami in late August as well.

so what?

I like Trent, I don't care if he gets some more of Lamar's money...why do you?

[Mr. Laz]

what if a Miami QB gets injured?? THEN WHAT IS TRENT'S VALUE?

I can't believe Chief fans are so beaten down that they're willing to give players away just becuase....
hell ya .... a bunch of things can happen and most of them are good for us.


1. Green shows up and we have to pay his training camp money
2. Green shows up and gets hurt ... ****ing everything up.
3. someone in Miami steps up at QB and they don't need Green


everything else is gravy for us

[bigbucks24]

good lord...it isn't about Carl's ego....Carl can't win no matter what....

Carl negotiated and lowered his price, Miami never negotiated...but according to you, the media, and Chiefs fans Carl is to blame, Carl is spiteful, Carl is an ass.....


what a joke....
If you re-read my posts, I think you will find that I have never said any of those things. I was asking a Chief fan's perspective. Many on this board have said to do it to screw the Dolphins, screw Trent, feed Carl's ego or to do it out of spite. I was trying to see how people thought those things made good business sense.

If anything, I see Carl as a businessman--not a huge ego, spiteful waste money type of GM. From what little I know about him, he doesn't seem the type to spend money he doesn't have to spend. I don't know if he is a great judge of talent, but then again, I don't know how much input he gets from coaches and scouts.

Again, I was just trying to firgure out how keeping Trent until the season opens or keeping him all year makes sense. Like I said before, if you think Miami is going to give in, then it make perfect business sense.

[htismaqe]

they might wait, they might be bluffing....only one way to find out...holding Trent for fair value isn't spiteful, it's smart business...

amazing how self-hating Chiefs fans are....Carl working for the franchise equals "Carl being spiteful"....

like I said, Miami counted on Carl's reputation working against him...they were right...you and Logical are perfect evidence of that

This might be the most ironic post I've ever seen on Chiefsplanet. I'm the biggest Carl apologist on the Planet and perfect evidence of self-hating Chiefs fans all in the span of about 30 minutes.

This has nothing to do with Carl. I DON'T blame him for doing what he's doing.

All I'm saying is, if it were me, I wouldn't hold onto him.

[BigRock]

Another flaw to this story is the comparison to Steve McNair. Last year, the Titans banned him from their facility on April 3rd because they didn't want to risk him getting injured during workouts.

It's two weeks from June. Trent has been working out with the team all along. If they were going to ban him to protect themselves in case of injury, they would have done it already.

[MADDOG MIKE]

what about if one of our QB's gets hurt in training camp and we end up needing Trent?

what if our young QB ends up needing more time and Trent would be our starter again?

what if another team loses their starting QB and the market value for Trent Green goes way up?


the dolphins can give us fair value or can go **** themselves ....

they are the ones trying to get something for nothing.


The only problem with the "market value" thing is that
Trent will negotiate with ONLY the Dolphins...
No one else will send us a draft pick AND pay Trent
his 7.2 mil salary....

[the Talking Can]

hell ya .... a bunch of things can happen and most of them are good for us.


1. Green shows up and we have to pay his training camp money
2. Green shows up and gets hurt ... ****ing everything up.
3. someone in Miami steps up at QB and they don't need Green


everything else is gravy for us

we have nothing to lose...a 7th is nothing...anything that happens is gravy for us....we'll eventually cut him, and maybe get a fair pick, or maybe not....Miami has no leverage...people saying so are ****ing clueless

[the Talking Can]

This might be the most ironic post I've ever seen on Chiefsplanet. I'm the biggest Carl apologist on the Planet and perfect evidence of self-hating Chiefs fans all in the span of about 30 minutes.

This has nothing to do with Carl. I DON'T blame him for doing what he's doing.

All I'm saying is, if it were me, I wouldn't hold onto him.

well thank god you aren't him, I'd fire your ass if you gave away a starting QB for NOTHING ;)

and I mentioned you and Logical because you said Carl was being spiteful, and Logical said he was being an ass....when Miami is clearly the only stubborn party here...

[Mr. Laz]

The only problem with the "market value" thing is that
Trent will negotiate with ONLY the Dolphins...
No one else will send us a draft pick AND pay trent
his 7.2 mil salary....
maybe ... maybe not


if Trent sees that we will hold him unless somebody gives us fair market value then he might change his mind.

besides ..... if a team that has a chance to contend loses it's starter they might be willing to pay significantly more than Miami offered Green.

money talks


a team offers us a 3rd and Green 5 million per year it's a done deal. :D

[htismaqe]

what about if one of our QB's gets hurt in training camp and we end up needing Trent?

what if our young QB ends up needing more time and Trent would be our starter again?

The Chiefs have already informed Trent that he's not in their plans. Trent has already informed the Chiefs that he will not play for them. It's nice to hope, but realistically, there's no chance of either of these things happening. That's why they signed Huard.

what if another team loses their starting QB and the market value for Trent Green goes way up?

This is the one scenario that we can hope for because it's the only one that gives us leverage. Of course, that "team" HAS to be the Dolphins, because no other team is gonna take on Trent's salary.

[htismaqe]

And I answered you. They're the competition. Giving Trent to them for nothing in time for training camp just to be nice guys is about the dumbest ****ing idea I've ever heard.

I never suggested we give Trent to them to be "nice guys".

I don't care one iota about the Dolphins. Keeping Trent around to prove a point doesn't help the team I do care about.

[htismaqe]

we have nothing to lose...a 7th is nothing...anything that happens is gravy for us....we'll eventually cut him, and maybe get a fair pick, or maybe not....Miami has no leverage...people saying so are ****ing clueless

Miami has no leverage. Never said they did.

I'm saying that KC has no leverage. And they don't.

[bigbucks24]

what about if one of our QB's gets hurt in training camp and we end up needing Trent?

what if our young QB ends up needing more time and Trent would be our starter again?

what if another team loses their starting QB and the market value for Trent Green goes way up?


the dolphins can give us fair value or can go **** themselves ....

they are the ones trying to get something for nothing.
Good grief. Can't people discuss this without talking abut the Phins having sex with themselves?

As far as A QB getting hurt and the Chiefs needing him, I really think it is too far along on the bridge burning for that. I haven't talked to Carl, herm or Trent about this so this is just my opinion.

Same goes for Croyle needing more time.

As far as another team having a QB get hurt, that is very possible (almost probable). Heck, Vick might miss a few games and they traded Schaub. This makes sense.

If another Dolphin QB gets hurt (namely Cleo), then I agree Trent's value would probably go up.

See, a discussion and no one had to be told to have sex with themselves.

[JBucc]

I wonder what would happen if a player under contract just showed up for another team on game day and started playing for them. I'd like to see that once just for a laugh.

[Mr. Laz]

See, a discussion and no one had to be told to have sex with themselves.
ROFL



well ... them darn phins are trying to squeeze us and you know it.


and trent is helping them


so forgive me if i feel less than cordial toward the Mammal-fish

[htismaqe]

well thank god you aren't him, I'd fire your ass if you gave away a starting QB for NOTHING ;)

and I mentioned you and Logical because you said Carl was being spiteful, and Logical said he was being an ass....when Miami is clearly the only stubborn party here...

No, I didn't say Carl was being spiteful. The Dolphin fan said that.

I said there's nothing to gain from holding onto Trent out of spite. That spite is coming mostly from the fans.

[JBucc]

I wonder what would happen if a player under contract just showed up for another team on game day and started playing for them. I'd like to see that once just for a laugh.If I were Trent and the Chiefs kept me I'd use some of my salary to pay Cleo Lemon to stay home and loan me his jersey.

[htismaqe]

By the way, I totally agree that Miami is the stubborn party here.

I just don't see where the Chiefs have any leverage to change that.

[the Talking Can]

By the way, I totally agree that Miami is the stubborn party here.

I just don't see where the Chiefs have any leverage to change that.

we have the leverage of time....holding on to Trent does us no harm...letting him go before training camp would be plain stupid

[Mr. Laz]

By the way, I totally agree that Miami is the stubborn party here.

I just don't see where the Chiefs have any leverage to change that.
keeping Green is leverage


might not be smart ... but it's leverage


at the very least we should keep Green until 11:59 p.m on Sept 8th.

[Slick32]

The players and coaches ARE the Chiefs.

I don't think so, the Hunt family are the Chiefs. They pay the payroll.

[shaneo69]

we have nothing to lose...a 7th is nothing...anything that happens is gravy for us....we'll eventually cut him, and maybe get a fair pick, or maybe not....Miami has no leverage...people saying so are ****ing clueless

Carl's 7th round picks have probably started as many games as his 2nd round picks over the years.

[htismaqe]

we have the leverage of time....holding on to Trent does us no harm...letting him go before training camp would be plain stupid

It's only leverage if it helps us move Miami away from their current position, which it doesn't.

We don't have leverage, we have an impasse.

[Mr. Laz]

It's only leverage if it helps us move Miami away from their current position, which it doesn't.

We don't have leverage, we have an impasse.
impasse hurts the Dolphins ability to build an offense with Green


impasse = leverage

[Mecca]

I'm sure the Dolphins are pumped because the difference in winning 3 and 5 games is so great to give up more....

[the Talking Can]

It's only leverage if it helps us move Miami away from their current position, which it doesn't.


but it might, and that is all that matters...the future is unknown.....there is no reason for us to give up an asset for nothing until we have to...right now we have the luxury of time....

[Brock]

It's only leverage if it helps us move Miami away from their current position, which it doesn't.

We don't have leverage, we have an impasse.

I don't really care about leverage. They're offering basically nothing, which is what the Chiefs get by just keeping him. And not knowing what the Chiefs have at QB right now or what could happen to them is reason enough not to preemptively do anything without getting something in return.

[the Talking Can]

I'm sure the Dolphins are pumped because the difference in winning 3 and 5 games is so great to give up more....

I'm sure you're a mind reader....all we know for sure is that their head coach wants Green to be the starter, and that Green will be the starter the SECOND he is cut by the Chiefs...

I'm not in the habit of giving away lottery tickets...but since you are, can I have yours? Thanks....

[htismaqe]

Carl's 7th round picks have probably started as many games as his 2nd round picks over the years.

Unfortunately, this is probably true.

[htismaqe]

I don't think so, the Hunt family are the Chiefs. They pay the payroll.

Good god. This is the third time you've tried to change the definition of "team".

If the Hunt family is the "team" please explain to me how quibbling over a 4th round vs. a 6th round draft pick affects them AT ALL, good or bad...

[Valiant]

Carl told Green to go out and get a deal. He did that.

Carl has PLENTY of leverage, if all he's interested in is NOT LOSING. He could keep Trent on the roster indefinitely and screw Miami and Trent in the process.

But if he's really interested in doing what's best for the players and coaches that will be here when the season starts, he'll get this drama over with. We're not gonna get a good pick at this point. It's not gonna happen.



Carl told Trent to go shop around, not pick a team and refuse all other teams that had interest... Carl did not tell Trent find a team and tell them you can get me cheap keep holding out...


If Carl is the prick like I think he is, he lets Trent come to camp and sit in a room all day looking at last years playbook until the very last preseason game or until Miami wants to give up fair value(Which imo now is a conditional pick)...

[htismaqe]

but it might, and that is all that matters...the future is unknown.....there is no reason for us to give up an asset for nothing until we have to...right now we have the luxury of time....

It might, if another team's QB gets injured, and if Trent Green doesn't refuse to negotiate with a team other than Miami, and if...

Sorry, but as a fan of this team for 20 years you'll have to forgive me if I'm not overly optimistic.

[Valiant]

I'm sure the Dolphins are pumped because the difference in winning 3 and 5 games is so great to give up more....


Aren't you all the same bunch that bitched at other posters because they wanted to tank the rest of the season in a few years ago when we had no shot at the playoffs?? But instead were happy winning 7-9 games instead of 5-7 games and the better draft position...

There is no difference, you either play to win all the games you can or you don't...


The Fins would not be looking at Trent at all if they are only trying to win a few games...

[htismaqe]

I don't really care about leverage. They're offering basically nothing, which is what the Chiefs get by just keeping him. And not knowing what the Chiefs have at QB right now or what could happen to them is reason enough not to preemptively do anything without getting something in return.

You're assuming the Chiefs get nothing.

They could be getting a reputation for being a place free agents want to avoid.

They could be creating a huge mess in the locker room by holding onto a guy that doesn't want to be there.

I'm not saying those two things are necessarily true. But the risk of those two things alone is enough reason for me to get rid of him now. We're NOT going to get a 4th for him - it would have happened by now.

And Trent Green is not going to play for us.

[htismaqe]

impasse hurts the Dolphins ability to build an offense with Green

impasse = leverage

That's not leverage.

The Dolphins have already accepted that as an inevitability or they would have made the trade already.

[Slick32]

Good god. This is the third time you've tried to change the definition of "team".

If the Hunt family is the "team" please explain to me how quibbling over a 4th round vs. a 6th round draft pick affects them AT ALL, good or bad...

How about pointing out the other three. I'd like to see what I may have said. I think you are full of crap though.

[Valiant]

No, I didn't say Carl was being spiteful. The Dolphin fan said that.

I said there's nothing to gain from holding onto Trent out of spite. That spite is coming mostly from the fans.


IMO there is nothing wrong with spite in this situation, but there is more to it then that...

Trent refused to negotiate in good will with any other team after Carl granted him permission to find a team...By doing this Trent tried to help his new(maybe) team and screw the Chiefs out of a fairer compensation...

Trent decided Miami is the only team he is going to play for before he was even released/traded...

Out of Spite Carl should have him hold the clipboard all throughout the preseason and then release him... It further pushes back Miami(who is a AFC opponent) offense at the start of the year...


----------------------------

And for the Steve McNair incident... Hopefully Carl learned from it, do not force Trent from the compound because it has already been ruled in the players favor if done... What Carl should do is invite Trent with open arms and have him sit inside the compound away from the field,exercise room and weights and have him study last years playbook 8+ hours a day all week...

This way Trent does not get hurt or learns the new system, then either trade or cut his ass on the last day possible sometime in Sept..

Or the Fins can give up a decent compensation package to us...Their choice...

[Valiant]

You're assuming the Chiefs get nothing.

They could be getting a reputation for being a place free agents want to avoid.

They could be creating a huge mess in the locker room by holding onto a guy that doesn't want to be there.

I'm not saying those two things are necessarily true. But the risk of those two things alone is enough reason for me to get rid of him now. We're NOT going to get a 4th for him - it would have happened by now.

And Trent Green is not going to play for us.


I think you are assuming that other Franchises do not do this...

The Titans did this, The Packers do this... All teams do this in some way.. The only thing that matters to players when they are free agents is how much money they are going to get or how close you are to winning the championship with your team...

Trent can talk to these guys on his own if he wants away from the lockerroom if he wants to cause trouble... Most players know its a business and you deal with it...

The only thing that anyone will learn from this is not to **** with Carl on trades... IF teams were going to be scared off we would not have traded Dante... A team is trying to get their starting QB for nothing right now and some posters want to give him up for nothing early on so he can compete quicker in the AFC...


Everybody says its fair... If all parties involved really wanted fair they would do a damn conditional pick... That way you get value from your pick/player and how well he does...

round
6.....just for trading
5.....makes 3 starts
4.....makes 9 starts
3.....makes 14 starts
2.....takes team to playoffs
1.....makes probowl


This way if Miami does well the Chiefs do well, if he sucks for them and does not start then we get hardly nothing for him...

[jAZ]

Just cause he shows up to practice doesn't mean he has to get any reps.

If he wants to ride the eliptical machine on the sidelines, so be it.

I think KC will keep Trent next year if they have to. That's fine by me. But he won't get any PT until the situation is settled.

[bigbucks24]

No, I didn't say Carl was being spiteful. The Dolphin fan said that.

I said there's nothing to gain from holding onto Trent out of spite. That spite is coming mostly from the fans.
DAM! Where did I ever say I thought Carl was doing this out of spite? For the love of God, please read what I am writing. I was asking the perspective of Chief fans. I have read many on thie board that said Carl shouel/would hold onto Trent out of spite, to feed his ego and to screw Trent and the Dolphins. I never said he was. I never said he wanted to. I never said he might. I did not say it in the rain. I did not say it on a train. I did not say it here or there. I did not say it anywhere. I asked how it would be a good business decision and in the best interest of the Chiefs if he did that. Can we please stop falsly accusing the Dolphin fan???

[bronco610]

It doesnt cost anything to keep Trent? It costs 7 million.

[Direckshun]

5th rounder if Trent doesn't play well.

4th rounder if he does.

Stats and all that can be decided upon by other people. But I think that's fair.

[luv]

5th rounder if Trent doesn't play well.

4th rounder if he does.


Doesn't that have to be decided before the season?

[007]

5th rounder if Trent doesn't play well.

4th rounder if he does.

Stats and all that can be decided upon by other people. But I think that's fair.
5th was all I was really hoping to get for him.

damnit Carl!!!! :cuss:

[RedThat]

The Chiefs should just cut him.

The only reason I say this, is because Green doesn't fit into the teams future plans. The Chiefs drafted Croyle for a reason? And they signed Huard for a reason? Trent just doesn't fit in the teams plans right now, and I think Trent knows that. They might as well let him go.

Absolutely no use in keeping Trent. Absolutely none and it is pointless. Unless, the Chiefs decide to have a training camp battle to see if he can maintain his starting job. If he does then paying him the 7 million makes sense. If he loses the job, no use keeping him on the bench for 7 million. Just let the guy go. Miami can have him for free. Who cares? He seems to be on the verge at the end of his career anyway? As a Chiefs fan it is more pleasing to see the team install the QB position with youth, and rebuild, than rather keep a veteran nearing the end of his career.

Better to let the guy go, then to keep him and possibly have to face a team distraction imo?

The more I see this whole Green thing carry on, the more Im beginning to agree with Whitlocks take. The more Im seeing that Peterson possibly loves the business aspect of football more so than he shows his love for his players.

Just let the guy go, and give him his hearts desire. Besides, he deserves it, he is a pretty good guy, and brought a lot of good football to the Chiefs organization. Shouldn't the Chiefs repay him with good in return?

[SPchief]

Just let the guy go. Miami can have him for free. Who cares?


Why give him away for free, when eventually you will get somthing in return.

[Buns]

I am on the keep Green until KC gets a 5th or a conditional or whatever boat. If we don't get a deal, then cut him the day before we make a roster cut (Probably the first cut). I seriously don't think we keep him inactive all year and pay him 7.2 mil.

However, I think as someone mentioned earlier, if Herm Edwards sees Green as a distraction, he will get the quick boot. Herm might not want to see a roster spot wasted either.

[TinyEvel]

damn, GOOD idea Trent. I should try this at my job.
Pull a hammy and sit back and wait for my 1.4 mil.....

[rad]

You're assuming the Chiefs get nothing.

They could be getting a reputation for being a place free agents want to avoid.

They could be creating a huge mess in the locker room by holding onto a guy that doesn't want to be there.

I'm not saying those two things are necessarily true. But the risk of those two things alone is enough reason for me to get rid of him now. We're NOT going to get a 4th for him - it would have happened by now.

And Trent Green is not going to play for us.


Trent is under contract. If he refuses to play, then we get to fine the shit out of him and recover some of his salary.

Trent is a soft bitch. He doesn't want to play anywhere but Miami, thus keeping CP from doing his job and unloading a player with value to another team for fair compensation. Trent is a class guy? Not anymore, IMO.

By sticking to his guns, CP sends a message around the league that he has a spine, and you better come correct. That goes for GM's AND players. I highly doubt a future potential free-agent will be discouraged from playing here over this, not with the right pile of money in his face.

You and I don't know what will happen once training camp starts. But releasing him now just eliminates more options for us. Sometimes you have to gamble.

[kepp]

So let him show up and hand him a pair of 10 lb dumbells. I'm sure this has been suggested already but I didn't feel like reading through 7 pages.

[StcChief]

Make Trent clipboard boy... That outta get him or his agent to call Miami.....

buck up Miami.

[eazyb81]

The Talking Can has been SPOT-ON in this thread.

Carl is doing his damn job by attempting to do what is best for this football team.

F#ck Miami and f#ck Trent Green.

[NewChief]

The Talking Can has been SPOT-ON in this thread.

Carl is doing his damn job by attempting to do what is best for this football team.

F#ck Miami and f#ck Trent Green.

I would suggest taking a more holistic view on what's "best for this football team": a view that views "best" as more than just a numbers game of compensation for players. You also have to consider what's happening in the locker room, on the training field, and in the player's houses as they all hang out. While I don't think that players are really going to rally around Trent or care one way or the other, I do think that they might start having some second thoughts about how "loyal" the Chiefs are as an organization. It's no secret that Carl and Trent were "best buds" for most of Trent's tenure here. If he'll screw Trent over (I'm not arguing that he has, that's another thread, just that that could be the perception), then who could be next?

On top of that, Herm is trying to usher in a youth movement with an entirely new philosophy. Getting rid of the figurehead/symbol for the old regime would help to make that clean break and allow Herm to more completely and cleanly institute his philosophy throughout this offseason.

[Planetman]

The Chiefs will lock him out of OTA, ala McNair and the Titans.

[Sure-Oz]

The Talking Can has been SPOT-ON in this thread.

Carl is doing his damn job by attempting to do what is best for this football team.

F#ck Miami and f#ck Trent Green.
Exactly!

It's a business and he is doing whats best for the team, i recall Trent Green is not the Kansas City Chiefs.

[Chiefnj]

Exactly!

It's a business and he is doing whats best for the team, i recall Trent Green is not the Kansas City Chiefs.

If he isn't, than who or what is? Peterson? Herm? If an overachieving QB that is the team leader, that led the team to one of the most prolific offenses in team history, that was never an embarassment to the organization, that gave to the community, was a well spoken spokesperson for the team, restructured his contract in the past to help the team, etc., isn't the face of persona of the Kansas City Chiefs than who or what is?

[InChiefsHeaven]

If he isn't, than who or what is? Peterson? Herm? If an overachieving QB that is the team leader, that led the team to one of the most prolific offenses in team history, that was never an embarassment to the organization, that gave to the community, was a well spoken spokesperson for the team, restructured his contract in the past to help the team, etc., isn't the face of persona of the Kansas City Chiefs than who or what is?

Rich Scanlon.

[crazycoffey]

I see the Team being defined as all the things you all have mentioned, players, coaches, fans, owners, employees. But not just this years players, etc, next years too, and ten years from now, Carl trying to get value isn't a bad thing when the good could be seen in a long term value.

I want the drama to be over too, I agree with some on here that we don't want to give him up to an AFC rival so easily.

Now I have a serious question from all of this. If we keep him we "have to" pay his salary? What if he's deactivated? Does that change anything?

[afchiefs]

The only thing King Carl has done wrong in this whole deal is allowing TG to talk with other teams. I don't think CP ever gave TG the authority to discuss the value(pick) of the trade, only to discuss his personal contract(what he's willing to take-pay wise). It is TG public statements that he will renegotiated only with the phins that has devalued his stock. TG has lost 90% of the class guy status that I use to have for him. It is TG screwing CP not the other way around. I would keep him till the last possible momment before cutting him. You never know what may happen down the road and the phins may come to their senses. TG made his bed, now he can lie in it.


This thread needs a POLL badly.

[Sure-Oz]

The only thing King Carl has done wrong in this whole deal is allowing TG to talk with other teams. I don't think CP ever gave TG the authority to discuss the value(pick) of the trade, only to discuss his personal contract(what he's willing to take-pay wise). It is TG public statements that he will renegotiated only with the phins that has devalued his stock. TG has lost 90% of the class guy status that I use to have for him. It is TG screwing CP not the other way around. I would keep him till the last possible momment before cutting him. You never know what may happen down the road and the phins may come to their senses. TG made his bed, now he can lie in it.


This thread needs a POLL badly.
Exactly...he really has not been professional since then and we gave him opp. to seek a trade anywhere...he will get on with a team, probably miami even if a trade isn't brought out. I just think he could've handled things better and remember this is a business.

[NewChief]

I love how everyone says that Trent hasn't been class. I guess it's "classier" to pretend you want to go somewhere you don't want to go in order to drive your value up under false pretenses than to be honest about your desires.

In this instance "classy" to the people of this board means helping the Chiefs and nothing more.

[afchiefs]

I love how everyone says that Trent hasn't been class. I guess it's "classier" to pretend you want to go somewhere you don't want to go in order to drive your value up under false pretenses than to be honest about your desires.

In this instance "classy" to the people of this board means helping the Chiefs and nothing more.

How about not going public?

[eazyb81]

I love how everyone says that Trent hasn't been class. I guess it's "classier" to pretend you want to go somewhere you don't want to go in order to drive your value up under false pretenses than to be honest about your desires.

In this instance "classy" to the people of this board means helping the Chiefs and nothing more.

It's "classy" to go on the radio and talk shit on your current employer?

It's "classy" to not request, but DEMAND a trade to one and only one team?

It's "classy" to threaten to hold-out?

Please....I have lost a ton of respect for Trent Green these last few months.

[NewChief]

How about not going public?

I think he went public because he wanted the public to know his side of things. He didn't want people to think that he hated KC and the Chiefs. He wanted to, basically, clear the air. I still haven't heard anything in that interview that's super damaging or negative toward the Chiefs. He talks about how much he respects Carl. How much he likes the town. What a great time he had there. He also says that the team is going in a different direction, and his time has come. Big freaking deal. It's not like he said LJ is a punk bitch and Herm is a moron.

[Brock]

I think he went public because he wanted the public to know his side of things. He didn't want people to think that he hated KC and the Chiefs.

He might want to put a leash on that agent of his then.

[Logical]

If he isn't, than who or what is? Peterson? Herm? If an overachieving QB that is the team leader, that led the team to one of the most prolific offenses in team history, that was never an embarassment to the organization, that gave to the community, was a well spoken spokesperson for the team, restructured his contract in the past to help the team, etc., isn't the face of persona of the Kansas City Chiefs than who or what is?:clap::clap::clap:

[afchiefs]

Someone start a POLL

I demand my POLL :banghead:

[NewChief]

He might want to put a leash on that agent of his then.

Agreed. Steiner is another story.

[crazycoffey]

......I have a serious question from all of this. If we keep him we "have to" pay his salary? What if he's deactivated? Does that change anything?


???anyone???

[penchief]

I love how everyone says that Trent hasn't been class. I guess it's "classier" to pretend you want to go somewhere you don't want to go in order to drive your value up under false pretenses than to be honest about your desires.

In this instance "classy" to the people of this board means helping the Chiefs and nothing more.

How about if Trent Green petitions his new team to offer fair compensation in order to get the deal done instead of siding with his friend in Miami and going public about how the chiefs are the ones being unfair? How about it if Trent Green doesn't insinuate that the younger guys will see how unfair the chiefs organization is once they know better?

That's why he's lost a lot of class with me. It's a slap in the face to us Chief fans, too. Nothing like poisoning the water just so you can get exactly what you want without compromise. Green has been low class throughout the entire episode, IMO.

[NewChief]

How about if Trent Green petitions his new team to offer fair compensation in order to get the deal done instead of siding with his friend in Miami and going public about how the chiefs are the ones being unfair?

What if Trent feels that the pick they're offering is a fair trade?


How about it if Trent Green doesn't insinuate that the younger guys will see how unfair the chiefs organization is once they know better?

I still don't agree with this interpretation of what he said.

[penchief]

What if Trent feels that the pick they're offering is a fair trade?

Do you think Trent devalues his own abilities that much? I don't think so. I think Trent feels like he's a starting quarterback. I'll bet he feels like he's in the top ten. I don't buy your argument on this one.

Would you trade one of our seventh rounders for Brett Favre? Should the pack do that deal with us?

I still don't agree with this interpretation of what he said.

Whatever you think he must have meant, it didn't sound very complementary toward anyone.

[htismaqe]

How about pointing out the other three. I'd like to see what I may have said. I think you are full of crap though.

Sorry, I lumped posts from someone else in with yours.

[rad]

Update:

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10184868

[Valiant]

Update:

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10184868



I think that should be called a rehash...

All Carl has to do from learning from the McNair incident is allow Trent to the complex... Sit his ass in the lounge and study the play book from last year...

Everything Schefter has written is pure speculation...

[Valiant]

The Chiefs will lock him out of OTA, ala McNair and the Titans.


IF Peterson is smart he will not...

[Luzap]

The offense Cameron is installing in Miami is one of the most complicated in the NFL.

Let Miami start Cleo and their other young QBs for a couple of pre-season games and you'll see Trent's value increase dramatically.

IMO, Miami is the one being silly here. Unless they don't care about being competative this year (and they do), they need to get Trent into their offseason program ASAP. The longer they wait the worse their record will be and the higher and more valuable the draft pick they will have to give us.

Luz
carlhas all the leverage...

[Valiant]

I would suggest taking a more holistic view on what's "best for this football team": a view that views "best" as more than just a numbers game of compensation for players. You also have to consider what's happening in the locker room, on the training field, and in the player's houses as they all hang out. While I don't think that players are really going to rally around Trent or care one way or the other, I do think that they might start having some second thoughts about how "loyal" the Chiefs are as an organization. It's no secret that Carl and Trent were "best buds" for most of Trent's tenure here. If he'll screw Trent over (I'm not arguing that he has, that's another thread, just that that could be the perception), then who could be next?

On top of that, Herm is trying to usher in a youth movement with an entirely new philosophy. Getting rid of the figurehead/symbol for the old regime would help to make that clean break and allow Herm to more completely and cleanly institute his philosophy throughout this offseason.



Then you should look at it at a whole then like you said and relise that all teams do this in the NFL... Oakland with Porter(Allen in the past), Green Bay and New England refusing to rework contracts, all the teams with their franchise players...

Players understand the business aspect of the game and that each team does this to their own benefit..

Carl and Trent are both playing their cards, it just happens that Carl IMO is a better poker player and with a better hand then Trent... I wish Trent well when he does leave, just not until the very last preseason game or the Chiefs get a fair compensation package...

[NewChief]

Then you should look at it at a whole then like you said and relise that all teams do this in the NFL... Oakland with Porter(Allen in the past), Green Bay and New England refusing to rework contracts, all the teams with their franchise players...

Players understand the business aspect of the game and that each team does this to their own benefit..

Carl and Trent are both playing their cards, it just happens that Carl IMO is a better poker player and with a better hand then Trent... I wish Trent well when he does leave, just not until the very last preseason game or the Chiefs get a fair compensation package...

I don't have any problem with people feeling that the Chiefs should hold onto Trent. I do think that a lot of people are justifying their feelings that they should hold onto him by assigning a bunch of BS to him such as "he's no longer class," "he's a soft bitch," and countless other things. It's like people have to turn him into a bad person in order to make themselves feel better for the eventual screwing that he may get by the Chiefs (kept through the preseason then cut).

[Hootie]

what's the big deal?

if he shows up, work him out....he wants to be in Miami, we aren't losing anything...

how has Miami, which wants a starting QB for free, and which has refused to negotiate, the "good guy" here?

Carl is being blamed for.....for....negotiating a fair price for a starting QB??

and Trent - Mr. Goodboy - has enabled Miami throughout all of this.

**** them both. Miami WANTS Green to be their starting QB.

You only lose if you don't call their bluff. And losing a 7th isn't losing anyways.

I'd tell Miami to **** off and call when they're serious. And I'd tell Trent to do whatever he wants - fish, play Nintendo, come to camp - but he isn't going anywhere till we receive value for him. No one on this team is going cry themselves to sleep at night thinking about Trent. Nobody.
beautiful post

[Valiant]

I don't have any problem with people feeling that the Chiefs should hold onto Trent. I do think that a lot of people are justifying their feelings that they should hold onto him by assigning a bunch of BS to him such as "he's no longer class," "he's a soft bitch," and countless other things. It's like people have to turn him into a bad person in order to make themselves feel better for the eventual screwing that he may get by the Chiefs (kept through the preseason then cut).



thats fair...

[wockenbauss]

Another Dolphin fan here adding my two cents... and then you can rip it to shreds, and call me names. :)

1.) The fundamental problem here is disagreement over value. Despite the fact that Steve McNair was 33 when he was traded for a 4th round pick, and Randy Moss and Darrell Jackson (two 20 something #1 NFL WR's) were traded this year for 4th round picks.... the Chiefs front office, and the majority of Chiefs fans seem to think 37 year old Trent Green (coming off a concussion ruined season far below his other recent performances) is worth the same (or more) compensation. I (and apparently the Dolphins) feel thats unrealistic.

2.) While there are no financial drawbacks (barring an injury) to keeping Green till the last possible moment, I would have to think there ARE "goodwill" drawbacks to the strategy. Players now on the team are going to see your GM basically ruining the last years of a respected former team leader (if the Chiefs hold Green till August) despite the fact that that leader and the GM were "best buds" throughout his tenure. They are going to be thinking if a player like Trent Green can be screwed over by the management here... how can I hope NOT to be??? <--- Argue how thats Miami's fault all you want, but if you put yourself in the mind of a Chiefs player - THATS what it looks like. Trent will tell them it's that way too.

Beyond that, prospective free agents are going to be seeing the same mess... AND hearing about it from competing teams during the next free agency period. Free agency is the closest thing to college recruiting in the NFL game... and if you think opposing teams won't use this situation - you have another think coming.

3.) Cleo Lemon (whatever you might think about him) has two years of Cameron's "most complicated offense in the league" under his belt from his time in San Diego... and so Miami isn't starting from square one here.

4.) You folks say Trent is classy... and I'll buy that. I consider myself classy too. But I have to tell you, if I'm being shunted to the side (as some have suggested to do with Trent) in training camp.... and held onto despite what I see as fair compensation having been offered (Trent said he thought the 6th round pick was fair)... as classy as I am, I'm going to start thinking about stepping in a pothole on the practice field and twisting my ankle. Maybe thats a dishonest thing to do... but if I truly feel I'm being screwed out of the last years of my career - I'd want to take 7.2 million for it.

Okay... bomb away with no worries. I'm so sick of talking about this mess, I may read the replies - but I won't reply. LOL

[the Talking Can]

Another Dolphin fan here adding my two cents... and then you can rip it to shreds, and call me names. :)

1.) The fundamental problem here is disagreement over value. Despite the fact that Steve McNair was 33 when he was traded for a 4th round pick, and Randy Moss and Darrell Jackson (two 20 something #1 NFL WR's) were traded this year for 4th round picks.... the Chiefs front office, and the majority of Chiefs fans seem to think 37 year old Trent Green (coming off a concussion ruined season far below his other recent performances) is worth the same (or more) compensation. I (and apparently the Dolphins) feel thats unrealistic.

2.) While there are no financial drawbacks (barring an injury) to keeping Green till the last possible moment, I would have to think there ARE "goodwill" drawbacks to the strategy. Players now on the team are going to see your GM basically ruining the last years of a respected former team leader (if the Chiefs hold Green till August) despite the fact that that leader and the GM were "best buds" throughout his tenure. They are going to be thinking if a player like Trent Green can be screwed over by the management here... how can I hope NOT to be??? <--- Argue how thats Miami's fault all you want, but if you put yourself in the mind of a Chiefs player - THATS what it looks like. Trent will tell them it's that way too.

Beyond that, prospective free agents are going to be seeing the same mess... AND hearing about it from competing teams during the next free agency period. Free agency is the closest thing to college recruiting in the NFL game... and if you think opposing teams won't use this situation - you have another think coming.

3.) Cleo Lemon (whatever you might think about him) has two years of Cameron's "most complicated offense in the league" under his belt from his time in San Diego... and so Miami isn't starting from square one here.

4.) You folks say Trent is classy... and I'll buy that. I consider myself classy too. But I have to tell you, if I'm being shunted to the side (as some have suggested to do with Trent) in training camp.... and held onto despite what I see as fair compensation having been offered (Trent said he thought the 6th round pick was fair)... as classy as I am, I'm going to start thinking about stepping in a pothole on the practice field and twisting my ankle. Maybe thats a dishonest thing to do... but if I truly feel I'm being screwed out of the last years of my career - I'd want to take 7.2 million for it.

Okay... bomb away with no worries. I'm so sick of talking about this mess, I may read the replies - but I won't reply. LOL


I'm shocked, a Dolphin fan doesn't think a veteran starting QB is worth a 4th....sorry, but that's just not being honest....

have fun with Lemon...the Dolphins have so much faith in him that they will demote him the VERY second Trent is cut...

and no player in the league would ever be so concerned about another player's contract status that they wouldnt give a 100% in a game, that is a laughable assertion....this "drama" exists only for the media and fans...

you think Trent isn't any good, and you claim you want Lemon to start....yet you (Miami) keep bugging us to give you Trent??

just go away then...no team in their right mind would give away a Starting QB for nothing...there is no word for how stupid that is...

there is no downside to the Chiefs holding on to Trent....NONE....Trent's feelings, Dolphin fan feelings, and Whitlock's feelings are irrelevant....so go buy a Cleo Lemon shirt...

jesus, it's like ground hog day....

[htismaqe]

Laz and Can,

I just got home. While driving around the accident at I-70 and I-435, I came to my senses.

I think I got bit by the impatience bug last night. I'm over it.

[chiefsfan1963]

I hope we don't cave. Bring in Trent for camp. Miami should give up at least a 4th for a starting QB in the NFL. I'm assuming KC has insurance if Trent get's injured. I will be bummed if they get Trent for just a 5th b/c 4th rounder is huge for a starter like Trent. Personally if Trent can play as a Starter I don't see why we don't consider keeping him. The situation is driven totally by the media.

[htismaqe]

I hope we don't cave. Bring in Trent for camp. Miami should give up at least a 4th for a starting QB in the NFL. I'm assuming KC has insurance if Trent get's injured. I will be bummed if they get Trent for just a 5th b/c 4th rounder is huge for a starter like Trent. Personally if Trent can play as a Starter I don't see why we don't consider keeping him. The situation is driven totally by the media.

Both the team and Trent have already moved on. Playing for KC isn't an option anymore.

[Manila-Chief]

Carl told Trent to go shop around, not pick a team and refuse all other teams that had interest... Carl did not tell Trent find a team and tell them you can get me cheap keep holding out...


If Carl is the prick like I think he is, he lets Trent come to camp and sit in a room all day looking at last years playbook until the very last preseason game or until Miami wants to give up fair value(Which imo now is a conditional pick)...

I was wondering about a "conditional pick" during the draft. Seems the perfect solution to me. If Kingless really believes he is still a starting NFL QB then trade him for a conditional pick(s) based upon how many games he plays in ... his production ... etc.

I see Carl's point ... what if he becomes their starter for 3 or 4 years and produces the numbers he did for us ... he would be worth a 1st. like we gave up for him ... but, if he is already over the hill ... well, you solve that problem with conditional picks. That way it is fair to everyone ... Chiefs get true value for him ... Fins make sure they don't over pay ... Trent gets his wish ... and, by the way ... it would get Trent on their practice field sooner and thus help insure he reaches those "conditional numbers."

[htismaqe]

A conditional pick has ALWAYS been the best compromise.

It's just too bad that the Dolphins apparently don't feel the need to compromise.

The fact that a conditional pick has never even been MENTIONED tells me that the Dolphins know RIGHT NOW that Green will start right away and start the entire season. They haven't thrown out the idea of a conditional pick because they know damn well that the conditions will be met.

[siberian khatru]

Can's been the man on this thread.

[Logical]

I'm shocked, a Dolphin fan doesn't think a veteran starting QB is worth a 4th....sorry, but that's just not being honest....

have fun with Lemon...the Dolphins have so much faith in him that they will demote him the VERY second Trent is cut...

and no player in the league would ever be so concerned about another player's contract status that they wouldnt give a 100% in a game, that is a laughable assertion....this "drama" exists only for the media and fans...

you think Trent isn't any good, and you claim you want Lemon to start....yet you (Miami) keep bugging us to give you Trent??

just go away then...no team in their right mind would give away a Starting QB for nothing...there is no word for how stupid that is...

there is no downside to the Chiefs holding on to Trent....NONE....Trent's feelings, Dolphin fan feelings, and Whitlock's feelings are irrelevant....so go buy a Cleo Lemon shirt...

jesus, it's like ground hog day....

If he is a starting QB then why won't he be starting for KC? Certainly not because we know Croyle can do the job. He might start for Miami but he might be washed up. I certainly would not give up a good pick for someone that might be washed up. I suppose if I was Miami I might give up a 5th but that is the most.

[the Talking Can]

If he is a starting QB then why won't he be starting for KC? Certainly not because we know Croyle can do the job. He might start for Miami but he might be washed up. I certainly would not give up a good pick for someone that might be washed up. I suppose if I was Miami I might give up a 5th but that is the most.

why do we have to keep starting over...this topic is dead

Miami wants Green to be their starter, he will be their starter the second he is cut....that is the ONLY fact that matters, it is the only thing we know for sure...

Green isn't going to Miami to be a backup, Cameron didn't say, "Trent, rework your contract and we'll make you a backup behind Clevis Lemonade.."....

[ROYC75]

A conditional pick has ALWAYS been the best compromise.

It's just too bad that the Dolphins apparently don't feel the need to compromise.

The fact that a conditional pick has never even been MENTIONED tells me that the Dolphins know RIGHT NOW that Green will start right away and start the entire season. They haven't thrown out the idea of a conditional pick because they know damn well that the conditions will be met.


Bingo.......... all the more reason they only wanted to give a 6th and now are waiting for him to be released, they know he will play all year and do well enought to warrant a higher conditional.

[mdstu]

The only thing King Carl has done wrong in this whole deal is allowing TG to talk with other teams. I don't think CP ever gave TG the authority to discuss the value(pick) of the trade, only to discuss his personal contract(what he's willing to take-pay wise). It is TG public statements that he will renegotiated only with the phins that has devalued his stock. TG has lost 90% of the class guy status that I use to have for him. It is TG screwing CP not the other way around. I would keep him till the last possible momment before cutting him. You never know what may happen down the road and the phins may come to their senses. TG made his bed, now he can lie in it.


This thread needs a POLL badly.

Carl had no choice but to ask Trent to shop himself around. If he doesn't agree to a new contract with another team, then they don't even talk to the Chiefs until they restructure with him. And guess what Trent isn't going to restructure with the Chiefs just so they can use him however they please.

The guy did everything asked of him and he is still a "punk" and a "soft bitch".

I don't think that the Chiefs owe him anything and I expect Carl to do what is best for the team. Including holding him until his stock is damaged and then cutting him. I do however draw the line at calling names and questioning his integrity. If Trent is a conniving punk bitch then that doesn't say much for everyone else.

[redbrian]

[QUOTE=the Talking Can]Miami wants Green to be their starter, he will be their starter the second he is cut....that is the ONLY fact that matters, it is the only thing we know for sure...

QUOTE]

Hey Cleo can you give me the numbers for the power ball Sat.

Your look into the future is not a fact; it all depends on when (if at all) Green is cut.

His ability to effectively start for the fins diminishes daily, Green historically starts slow, he will need every snap at training camp and pre-season to meld with the dolphs

If the fins don’t want Green enough to cough up the asking price, and no quarter back goes down before the season starts, then Green could become the highest paid clip board holder in the league.

Or he could come into the Chiefs training camp and actually try and win the starting job (something he has never had to do before).

[htismaqe]

If he is a starting QB then why won't he be starting for KC? Certainly not because we know Croyle can do the job. He might start for Miami but he might be washed up. I certainly would not give up a good pick for someone that might be washed up. I suppose if I was Miami I might give up a 5th but that is the most.

Trent Green is CAPABLE of starting. Miami wouldn't even be considering trading for a 37-year old QB if he wasn't.

We've never said he's not capable. We've told him we don't WANT him.

[Logical]

why do we have to keep starting over...this topic is dead

Miami wants Green to be their starter, he will be their starter the second he is cut....that is the ONLY fact that matters, it is the only thing we know for sure...

Green isn't going to Miami to be a backup, Cameron didn't say, "Trent, rework your contract and we'll make you a backup behind Clevis Lemonade.."....

As a 37 y/o he might be worth a 5th rounder, that is why I said Miami might give that for him. He sure ain't worth a 4th rounder at that age.

[Brock]

As a 37 y/o he might be worth a 5th rounder, that is why I said Miami might give that for him. He sure ain't worth a 4th rounder at that age.

He sure as hell is if he starts 16 games for the Dolphins.

[Logical]

He sure as hell is if he starts 16 games for the Dolphins.We just have to agree to disagree.

[wockenbauss]

I'm shocked, a Dolphin fan doesn't think a veteran starting QB is worth a 4th....sorry, but that's just not being honest....

I can't be any more honest Can.

Steve McNair was a starting QB too... and he was traded for a 4th round pick when he was FOUR YEARS YOUNGER than Trent Green is now.

TWO #1 WR's in their 20's went for a 4th round pick LAST MONTH.

I understand your argument that a starting QB is a valuable commodity, but if YOU are more honest with yourself, you'll admit a 5th rounder is fair compensation given the market.

[Dolphanzeke]

Dolphin Fan here just joining the discussion...Nice Board BTW.I obviously have a dolphin slant to this but you all seem fairly reasonable and its a boring time of year.. What seems to have gotten lost a bit here is the Dolphins never approached King Carl about a trade.. Mueller didnt call asking for Trent..Trent was told he was no longer wanted and to seek a trade Miami was an obvious choice (given his ties to Cameron etc) so contract parameters where put in place to make it a positive move for Trent Miami and the Chiefs.. eliminating a cap hit for the chiefs.. and then it comes to compensation for the chiefs unwanted QB and King Carl wants to bring the Welker trade up?? a second round pick for a 37 year old QB who makes for a nice 1 or 2 year patch..after Mueller gets his cap hit off the Chiefs books! seriously you have to see the problem with that.

[Calcountry]

I'm sure he isn't afraid of the fans or Whitlock.He SHOULD be afraid of Whitlock, that guy might eat him when his ribs run out.

[Adept Havelock]

I can't be any more honest Can.

Steve McNair was a starting QB too... and he was traded for a 4th round pick when he was FOUR YEARS YOUNGER than Trent Green is now.

TWO #1 WR's in their 20's went for a 4th round pick LAST MONTH.

I understand your argument that a starting QB is a valuable commodity, but if YOU are more honest with yourself, you'll admit a 5th rounder is fair compensation given the market.


Yes, and both of those 20 something WR's have serious baggage/issues which is the only reason they didn't go for higher picks.

[Calcountry]

We just have to agree to disagree.54K posts on a Chiefs BB. :hmmm: How many of them have any positive enthusiasm towards the team, its efforts to improve, etc.

You are the meme of the football side of this forum. You get happy when bad shit happens to the team. But that is leagues better than getting happy when our Soldiers die like Meme does.

I'm out for now.

[wockenbauss]

Yes, and both of those 20 something WR's have serious baggage/issues which is the only reason they didn't go for higher picks.

What was 33 year old starting QB Steve McNair's serious baggage/issues (other than his high dollar contract)???

A 4th round pick for a starting QB, FOUR years younger than Trent Green.