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keg in kc
05-20-2007, 08:37 AM
NASA Probes Sinkhole as Proxy for Icy Moon (http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/nasa-probes-sinkhole-as-proxy-for-icy/20070519112109990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001)

By Robin Emmott
Reuters
Updated:2007-05-19 13:14:07

EL ZACATON, Mexico (Reuters) - NASA is testing an underwater robot in one of Earth's deepest sinkholes in a first step toward searching for life on Jupiter's icy moon, Europa.

El Zacaton, near the Gulf coast of northeastern Mexico, is about 328 feet wide and more than 3,000 feet deep. It could easily hold the Eiffel Tower.

Scientists plan to map and take samples in the dark, water-filled fissure with the 1.5 ton DEPTHX robot over the next two weeks as a prelude to the proposed navigation of Europa's ice-capped oceans in about 20 years.

The mission is the latest step in a 400-year-old endeavor to understand Jupiter and its distant moons.

"We're so sure there's water on Europa that the real question is whether there is also life, whether there's something in the ocean that bugs can eat," said Chris McKay of the NASA Ames Research Center in California.

"This robot is the ideal way to search," he said.

Lowered by a 60-ton crane, the battery-powered robot, nicknamed "Clementine" for its round shape and orange color, will make daily descents into the vertical cave known in Mexico as a cenote.

It will produce three-dimensional maps, collect rock samples and using floodlights, film nooks and crannies too deep for divers to reach.

Mars, Europa and Saturn's moon Enceladus are the only known places in the solar system known to have or have had water, the basis for all life. Finding organisms different from those on Earth may provide scientists with answers to questions ranging from where diseases come from to how our sun and planets formed more than 4.5 billion years ago.

"Plants, animals, fungus, microbes and bacteria are the known forms of life. But there may be more branches to the tree on Europa," said John Spear, a microbiology expert at the Colorado School of Mines and part of the NASA project.

"Learning more about life tells you more about our own heritage and the benefits in health and medicine that could bring," he added.

Mapping Oceans

The idea of mapping Europa's oceans with an automated robot was dreamed up by Texas scientist Marcus Gary at a barbecue in 2001. In 2003, his team won NASA funding for the $5.3 million project.

Gary chose El Zacaton to do the first major test run of the robot, which is about the size of a small car, because its sheer depth meant the site was an unknown quantity. A U.S. diver died trying to swim to the bottom in 1994.

"It is an ideal testing ground because we can test out the robot's mapping powers in untried waters," Gary said.

Its great depth also means that many of its microbes live without light or oxygen and may be similar to what could exist on Europa.

Thought to have twice as much water as Earth, Europa has intrigued scientists ever since Italian astronomer Galileo Galilei observed Jupiter's four largest moons for the first time in 1610.

NASA hopes to take the probe to Antarctica in November 2008 to test it in much colder waters below the frozen ice that resembles Europa. If funding can be found, the scientists could send a much smaller version of the robot to Europa in about 20 years.

"It takes at least five years to reach Europa so we'll have to be patient," McKay said.

keg in kc
05-20-2007, 08:37 AM
The sinkhole:

keg in kc
05-20-2007, 08:38 AM
DEPTHX:

Rain Man
05-20-2007, 11:20 AM
Three observations:

1. It'd be really cool to plunk a robot onto that moon and find a bunch of big ol' dinosaur-like sea creatures.

2. I'd sure hate to fall into that sinkhole.

3. A U.S. diver died trying to swim to the bottom in 1994.

Yeesh. Not a good way to go.

Hydrae
05-20-2007, 11:24 AM
1 1/2 tons? How do they propose to get that thing into space? That is a huge amount of weight to lift out of the gravity well.

Am I alone in wondering why all this stuff is about finding "life" rather than looking for resource potential. Finding life could be interesting but finding new resources could have an actual impact on our daily lives back here on the home planet. If we are going to pillage a planetary sphere I would prefer to do it to one I don't live and depend on.

keg in kc
05-20-2007, 11:42 AM
1 1/2 tons? How do they propose to get that thing into space? That is a huge amount of weight to lift out of the gravity well.From the article:

NASA hopes to take the probe to Antarctica in November 2008 to test it in much colder waters below the frozen ice that resembles Europa. If funding can be found, the scientists could send a much smaller version of the robot to Europa in about 20 years.Am I alone in wondering why all this stuff is about finding "life" rather than looking for resource potential. Finding life could be interesting but finding new resources could have an actual impact on our daily lives back here on the home planet. If we are going to pillage a planetary sphere I would prefer to do it to one I don't live and depend on.I'm sure that's the real impetus for all this.

Rain Man
05-20-2007, 11:44 AM
1 1/2 tons? How do they propose to get that thing into space? That is a huge amount of weight to lift out of the gravity well.

Am I alone in wondering why all this stuff is about finding "life" rather than looking for resource potential. Finding life could be interesting but finding new resources could have an actual impact on our daily lives back here on the home planet. If we are going to pillage a planetary sphere I would prefer to do it to one I don't live and depend on.

Good point. More resources = better lives for all of us. New life = more aliens living off of welfare.

Unless we're looking for slaves. Any chance that we could find new life and enslave them, and we would all end up with butlers and personal masseuses and stuff?

Hydrae
05-20-2007, 11:50 AM
From the article:

NASA hopes to take the probe to Antarctica in November 2008 to test it in much colder waters below the frozen ice that resembles Europa. If funding can be found, the scientists could send a much smaller version of the robot to Europa in about 20 years.I'm sure that's the real impetus for all this.


Ah, maybe I should have read the whole thing rather than just skimming parts. :)

Discuss Thrower
05-20-2007, 11:51 AM
From the article:

NASA hopes to take the probe to Antarctica in November 2008 to test it in much colder waters below the frozen ice that resembles Europa. If funding can be found, the scientists could send a much smaller version of the robot to Europa in about 20 years.I'm sure that's the real impetus for all this.


We can't get at any resources we find anyway. Don't quote me on this, but aside from stuff on Earth, all we're gonna find is nothing but tons and tons and tons of nickel and iron. So, at best, we're still screwed.

keg in kc
05-20-2007, 11:54 AM
We can't get at any resources we find anyway. Don't quote me on this, but aside from stuff on Earth, all we're gonna find is nothing but tons and tons and tons of nickel and iron. So, at best, we're still screwed.The article is about searching a moon full of...water.

Without going into much detail, I think it's safe to say that the asteroid belt and most of the moons of the gas giants are treasure troves of exploitable materials. They've already studied a number of non-terrestrial bodies and know what's out there...

We may not be able to get at it now, but who knows what we'll be able to do in 100 years.

milkman
05-20-2007, 11:54 AM
We can't get at any resources we find anyway. Don't quote me on this, but aside from stuff on Earth, all we're gonna find is nothing but tons and tons and tons of nickel and iron. So, at best, we're still screwed.

You're just a beacon of hope, aren't ya?

Discuss Thrower
05-20-2007, 12:20 PM
You're just a beacon of hope, aren't ya?

Well, we could get lllllllots of steel from the asteroids, according to Wiki, we'd have to get lucky with near by ones that stray past us at -relatively- low speeds. But moons would be nigh impossible, considering we lack the technology to lift heavy objects once we get there.

I know I'm not a ray of sunshine, but growing up watching sci-fi shows and wondering "Gee, how great it would be if we could zip around the universe at high speeds with fantastic technology" then growing up and realizing that humanity is more concerned with reality TV shows and watching inebriated "celebrities" make a big splash with the tabloid media.... It has a tendency to dampen my optimisim.

Bob Dole
05-20-2007, 01:21 PM
We may not be able to get at it now, but who knows what we'll be able to do in 100 years.

Bob Dole is pulling for cell phones that don't drop calls.