WHITLOCK - Peterson’s made a mess

[Hammock Parties]

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/119040.html

It’s going to be hard to build team chemistry with Trent Green hanging at one end of the locker room nailed to a cross.

Herm Edwards might want to ask for a raise. You could argue he has the toughest job in coaching this offseason.

Herm is trying to move the Chiefs’ franchise in a new, youthful, defensive, winning and boring direction. He’s overhauling the roster, installing a wishbone offense and auditioning quarterbacks three plays at a time.

While Herm works his magic, his most important player (Larry Johnson) is preparing for a major contract dispute with Carl Peterson, Herm’s best defensive player (Jared Allen) is still fuming about his contract dealings with Peterson, and Herm’s most trusted leader (Trent Green) is trying to disgrace Peterson into making a trade with the Miami Dolphins.

Yep, Tuesday’s OTAs — otherwise known as “offseason turmoil announcements” — got off to a delicious start. You can’t blame Herm if he’s longing for his glorious New York days when all he really had to worry about was getting a fifth-string quarterback ready to face the New England Patriots.

Working around King Carl’s messes is one of the most underappreciated skills in all of professional sports. Marty Schottenheimer quit in disgust. Gunther Cunningham lost his mind. Dick Vermeil found the whole process beneath him.

Herm? We don’t know how he’ll handle it, though we’re going to find out shortly.

The early signs are troubling. On Tuesday, in order to make good on the false promise King Carl made to Green about a fair QB competition, Herm rotated his four quarterbacks — Green, Damon Huard, Brodie Croyle and Casey Printers — three plays at a time.

Herm spent all offseason proclaiming his love of Croyle and promising to get younger. Peterson gave Huard a new contract, asked Green to take a pay cut and then told Green to find a team willing to make a trade.

And now here we are at the end of May, and the Chiefs want to play musical quarterbacks. It’s a silly, directionless game that Green justifiably has no interest in playing.

That’s why he held a 23-minute news conference/crucifixion after the workout. He did everything except say he’d been scarred for life by the half-truths he believes Peterson and Edwards have told, and Green came dangerously close to calling Peterson a nappy-headed, leather-coated GM.

Man, it was ugly. Green stood in the bowels of Arrowhead Stadium and said he desperately wants to play for the Miami Dolphins. The problem for Peterson and Edwards is that all the players in the locker room seem to agree with Green. They believe Green is unfairly being held hostage by the front office.

For six years the players in that locker room have put their faith in Trent Green. He rewarded that trust with courageous play, unwavering loyalty and rock-solid leadership. Green is beloved and respected in Kansas City’s locker room.

Other than Will Shields, who retired, Green is the last guy the Chiefs need hanging from a cross while Herm is trying to move the team in a positive, new, boring direction.

Good cop/bad cop doesn’t work in professional football. Herm can’t love away all of Peterson’s bad business dealings. The players need to feel the love all the way from the top of the organization.

That does not mean the players have to be coddled. It just means it’s dangerous to have your rank-and-file players believe that the team’s president/general manager is mistreating the player they respect the most.

The Chiefs should cut Trent Green or trade him today. End of story.

The organization looks weak, mean-spirited and clueless every day they hold on to Green and continue the QB charade. If Croyle is the man, he doesn’t need to play musical QBs with Green casting a shadow this summer.

How does musical QBs help Croyle develop?

Green doesn’t want to be here. He’s mentally checked out on Kansas City. He wants to go to south Florida and reunite with Cam Cameron. Another day of “offseason turmoil announcements” is very harmful to the 2007 Chiefs. Each day Herm’s job gets more difficult.

It’s time for Clark Hunt to step in and tell King Carl this is unhealthy for the franchise and not the way the Chiefs are going to treat six-year, loyal employees. And while Clark has the King on the phone, he might want to tell the King to clean out his office, too.

[the Talking Can]

lmao

Whitlock is loving it

I'm sure the players are at an icecream parlor crying right now....

Just to recap:

1. Carl is to blame for trying to trade Trent at Trent's request

2. Carl is to blame for not giving away a starting QB for free

3.The team will be emotionally destroyed if Trent isn't traded for a 7th...they will never love again...

4. Carl is to blame...just because

5. Carl is to blame

6. Carl

[007]

Damnit Carl!!!!

Just had to say it.

[Hammock Parties]

Of course Whitlock neglected to mention that Green wasn't even scheduled for a press conference today....the media roped him into one according to NewChief. I need some column fodder, get your ass in front of the mic, Trent!

[Mile High Mania]

You forgot ... "Dammit Carl" :cuss:

I don't see what the problem is, sounds like things are moving right along.

[Bugeater]

Green stood in the bowels of Arrowhead Stadium and said he desperately wants to play for the Miami Dolphins.

Too bad Miami doesn't seem to want Trent as bad as Trent seems to want Miami. Why isn't he pissed at them for not coughing up the 4th rounder?

[OnTheWarpath15]

And had Carl caved and traded Trent for the 7th Miami wouldn't budge off of, he'd be bashing Carl for giving away a Pro Bowl caliber starting QB.

Can't have it both ways, Jason.

[the Talking Can]

And had Carl caved and traded Trent for the 7th Miami wouldn't budge off of, he'd be bashing Carl for giving away a Pro Bowl caliber starting QB.

Can't have it both ways, Jason.

and if we threw $$ at Allen, he'd blast Carl for signing a drunk etc...


Carl loses no matter what

[Hammock Parties]

and if we threw $$ at Allen, he'd blast Carl for signing a drunk etc...


Carl loses no matter what

Nah, Whitlock's occasionally objective. Last offseason he wrote a piece titled "Good Job, Carl," when the Chiefs traded for Bennett and signed Turley. Goes to show how anyone can be wrong I guess. LOL

[Deberg_1990]

and if we threw $$ at Allen, he'd blast Carl for signing a drunk etc...


Carl loses no matter what

Whitlock has been fighting this anti-Carl battle since about 1995...

[Direckshun]

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/119040.html

It’s going to be hard to build team chemistry with Trent Green hanging at one end of the locker room nailed to a cross.
HOLY SHIT.

REALITY CHECK: It's SPORTS.

Nobody's being crucified. Nobody's being fed to the lions. Nobody's being betrayed by the Jews. Nobody's being executed by the Romans.

Nobody's life is in danger.

Nobody's team is in danger.

A grown man who gets to play football for a living is in contractual limbo right now because trade negotiations have stalled.

This grown man is a millionaire.

This grown man is treated like a celebrity.

This grown man has a wife and children.

The team in question is comprised of other grown men.

They're not in danger. They're not in jeopardy. Nobody's cursed and nobody's in serious trouble. Things just aren't progressing the way we'd like them to in a perfect world.

Get some ****ing perspective, Jason. People can get on with their lives when they are surrounded with blood and chaos and layoffs and poverty. I know for a fact the team can get on with itself through this.

Can I neg rep Jason Whitlock? Is there somewhere I can go to do that?

[unlurking]

Can I neg rep Jason Whitlock? Is there somewhere I can go to do that?

Search for posts by bigsexy, then neg rep bomb away!

Here's one, although I think he changed his user name. He was on here last offseason if I remember right.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=12461

[Direckshun]

Search for posts by bigsexy, then neg rep bomb away!

Here's one, although I think he changed his user name. He was on here last offseason if I remember right.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=12461
Is that for real?

[CoMoChief]

Too bad Miami doesn't seem to want Trent as bad as Trent seems to want Miami. Why isn't he pissed at them for not coughing up the 4th rounder?

Would you cough up a 4th rounder for Trent? I wouldn't. He's 37 coming off of a bad concussion injury which never really recovered from. Trent played like shit in every game he played in last season except for one.

[unlurking]

Is that for real?
Yeah, but he's got a new account, can't remember the name though. Somebody else should pipe in with it.

[007]

Yeah, but he's got a new account, can't remember the name though. Somebody else should pipe in with it.
Yeah, he responded to one of my posts over a year ago with another username. Jwhit or something.

[Direckshun]

Yeah, he responded to one of my posts over a year ago with another username. Jwhit or something.
? (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3661288&postcount=33)

[007]

? (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3661288&postcount=33)
Thats him.

This was the thread of mine he responded to.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2933696&postcount=14

[Direckshun]

That bastard posts exactly like I'd think he'd post.

[Frazod]

HOLY SHIT.

REALITY CHECK: It's SPORTS.

Nobody's being crucified. Nobody's being fed to the lions. Nobody's being betrayed by the Jews. Nobody's being executed by the Romans.

Nobody's life is in danger.

Nobody's team is in danger.

A grown man who gets to play football for a living is in contractual limbo right now because trade negotiations have stalled.

This grown man is a millionaire.

This grown man is treated like a celebrity.

This grown man has a wife and children.

The team in question is comprised of other grown men.

They're not in danger. They're not in jeopardy. Nobody's cursed and nobody's in serious trouble. Things just aren't progressing the way we'd like them to in a perfect world.

Get some ****ing perspective, Jason. People can get on with their lives when they are surrounded with blood and chaos and layoffs and poverty. I know for a fact the team can get on with itself through this.

Can I neg rep Jason Whitlock? Is there somewhere I can go to do that?

Great post.

[Frazod]

As I've said before, Carl has f#cked a lot of things up in the past, but this isn't one of them. These lowballing Floriduh pricks want Green to be their STARTER, yet don't think he's worth a 6th and trading 3rds? And Trent thinks Carl is the bad guy here?

THINK, MCFLY, THINK. :banghead:

The question no one apparently asked Green during his woe-is-me press conference is how he feels about going to a team that thinks he's worth exactly NOTHING in trade value? They're really rolling out the red carpet, aren't they? :shake:

[luv]

As I've said before, Carl has f#cked a lot of things up in the past, but this isn't one of them. These lowballing Floriduh pricks want Green to be their STARTER, yet don't think he's worth a 6th and trading 3rds? And Trent thinks Carl is the bad guy here?

THINK, MCFLY, THINK. :banghead:

The question no one apparently asked Green during his woe-is-me press conference is how he feels about going to a team that thinks he's worth exactly NOTHING in trade value? They're really rolling out the red carpet, aren't they? :shake:
Whatever happened to that jet?

[Bugeater]

Would you cough up a 4th rounder for Trent? I wouldn't. He's 37 coming off of a bad concussion injury which never really recovered from. Trent played like shit in every game he played in last season except for one.
Evidently he doesn't realize that, heck I hadn't even read the thread about the Fins not wanting to give up a 6th and swap thirds for him when I posted that. So allow me to rephrase, why is he throwing a fit about wanting to play in Miami when it's obvious they don't really want him? If he's going to get pissy with anyone it should be with the Dolphins.

[Logical]

Great article by Jason, one of the rare ones. I especially like the idea of Clark telling Carl to clean out his office. Won't happen but we can dream.

[007]

Great article by Jason, one of the rare ones. I especially like the idea of Clark telling Carl to clean out his office. Won't happen but we can dream.
Imagine the party we would throw though.

[Hammock Parties]

Great article by Jason, one of the rare ones. I especially like the idea of Clark telling Carl to clean out his office. Won't happen but we can dream.

Carl will leave on his own terms in a couple of years...not long now.

[Tribal Warfare]

Search for posts by bigsexy, then neg rep bomb away!

Here's one, although I think he changed his user name. He was on here last offseason if I remember right.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=12461

his handle is jwhit

[AustinChief]

Jwhit,

Watch this unfold, Carl will win this one... one way or another. The current situation may make for good copy... but CP clearly has the upper hand versus an inept Miami management team. I LOVE Trent... but I would rather see him sit than see KC get fecked on a deal from the worthless inept corksuckers in South Florida.

Big Sexy, I understand that you have to write about something... but don't insult you OWN inteligence by implying that Carl is wrong in this instance. Keep it real bud.

--Austinchief

[AustinChief]

Great article by Jason, one of the rare ones. I especially like the idea of Clark telling Carl to clean out his office. Won't happen but we can dream.

I love you man... but let's be real... right or wrong... WEAK negotiation serves no one well...

I want nothing but the BEST for Trent... but if it comes down to Trent or the Chiefs... sorry... but FECK Trent... he can sit and rot before I let my team come across as weak in trade talks... I don't often go with CP... but he has this one covered.

[CoMoChief]

Evidently he doesn't realize that, heck I hadn't even read the thread about the Fins not wanting to give up a 6th and swap thirds for him when I posted that. So allow me to rephrase, why is he throwing a fit about wanting to play in Miami when it's obvious they don't really want him? If he's going to get pissy with anyone it should be with the Dolphins.


None of us know what was said behind closed doors when Carl talked with Trent. If Carl said "Trent, we're gonna get a deal done if you find a team you wanna go to" and that's it, then Carl needs to live up to his word and trade him and stop all of this BS. If Carl said something like "You can go to a team you choose if you can cut a deal but we're not giving you up in the process for nothing" then more than likely we will keep Green this season and make MIA suck their own shit with a VERY shitty QB situation.

[Anyong Bluth]

Fact remains, he is due something around 7.2 mil if he stays- the man is hardly on the cross.

As for the players in the locker room. There are very few that were around for most of his time. The oldest vets would be TG and Donnie Edwards, who is more than aware of the business side of being shown the door, yet that didn't stop him from coming back. Not buying what is being sold.

The man is no martyr. He was traded for a 1st rounder and has been paid well. I love the guy and think the world of him, but I'm not going to be roped into feeling bad b/c our GM, who many here don't like, is doing his job and asking for what he thinks a fair market value is for a starting QB. Miami can waver all they want, but they wouldn't still be dancing if they didn't see they need a viable starting QB for next year.

In the mean time, the 'phins can suck my d!ck, and Trent has to realize this is a business decision, no more than him riding pine while watching Rams win a SB b/c he got hurt. I'm sure life will go on, and I'll think fondly of him either way.

[Simplex3]

As soon as Carl shows the ability to win in the playoffs or win at all without Marty I'll start caring if someone piles on his dumb ass.

[the Talking Can]

Fact remains, he is due something around 7.2 mil if he stays- the man is hardly on the cross.

As for the players in the locker room. There are very few that were around for most of his time. The oldest vets would be TG and Donnie Edwards, who is more than aware of the business side of being shown the door, yet that didn't stop him from coming back. Not buying what is being sold.

The man is no martyr. He was traded for a 1st rounder and has been paid well. I love the guy and think the world of him, but I'm not going to be roped into feeling bad b/c our GM, who many here don't like, is doing his job and asking for what he thinks a fair market value is for a starting QB. Miami can waver all they want, but they wouldn't still be dancing if they didn't see they need a viable starting QB for next year.

In the mean time, the 'phins can suck my d!ck, and Trent has to realize this is a business decision, no more than him riding pine while watching Rams win a SB b/c he got hurt. I'm sure life will go on, and I'll think fondly of him either way.

can we pin this to the top of every Trent Green thread?

[BigRedChief]

Whitlock is a twit but he's right. Cut bait now. 5th or 6th or 4th rounder? Holding out for a 4th instead of a 6th just doesn't make sense if it tears up the locker room.

[StcChief]

I'd be fine with 6th in 2008. or up to 5th if he plays well in Miami.

Trent was avg behind a Great Oline, great TE, Great RB in Priest, Good WR in Eddie K. and cast of other avg recievers.

Paid well as Cocina said. and We gave a 1st rounder for him to Lambs.

Trent/Agent should be asking Miami what's the problem or are you hioping another QB gets cuts in June to compare against me????

[oldandslow]

I just don't get the love for Carl in this. He is very much locked in as one of the bottom third of GM's in the game. Further, after all of this, we will be very lucky to win 7 games this year - and we get to watch run, run, pass, punt all year to boot. I understand it is a rebuild year, but does anyone on this board trust that King Carl is up to the task? I sure as hell don't.

Trent Green has done much more for me as a fan than Carl Peterson ever will. If Carl could build both sides of the line at the same time...maybe I would feel differently. But, he can't so I won't.

How many years since a playoff win, again???

Damn, we are such Cub fans.

[dirk digler]

Whitlock is a twit but he's right. Cut bait now. 5th or 6th or 4th rounder? Holding out for a 4th instead of a 6th just doesn't make sense if it tears up the locker room.

I have to agree. After reading this article I am now convinced it just would be better to let the guy go and move on. The longer we hold onto Trent the worse this situation is going to get.

[hawkchief]

Carl sucks ass, he always has, and always will. He's a parasite to the organization, nothing more, nothing less. That said, for Trent to cry like a baby cuz Carl won't bend over and make yet another bad personnel decision, is BS. Green knows better than to think the organziation owes him a way out of KC in exchange for a bad deal.

It's hard to assess Green's value given his injury/awful performance last year. Why a conditional pick deal can't be agreed upon is a mystery to me.

[FloridaMan88]

If the Chiefs actually had a viable option at QB to replace Green it would be one thing, but the pathetic thing about this disgusting mess that Carl has created is the fact that Trent Green is still the best QB on the Chiefs' roster.

This reminds me of the Houston Oilers dumping Warren Moon for Cody Carlson and the 49ers dumping Jeff Garcia in favor of Tim Rattay. Those decisions destroyed those franchises and apparently that is what Carl is attempting to do here... completely destroy the franchise as his final "gift" to the fanbase.

[Frankie]

I agree with some of Whitlick's articles. This one I absolutely do not. It wreaks of his hatred for CP and he uses Trent as a tool to unleash it. That in itself is abusing Trent despite all the reasons that he mentions for which I should and do love him.

[Chiefnj]

Whitlock hits another HR.

The best interest of the team is getting rid of the disgruntled team leader so that Brodie can try to assume the role of team leader and give the reps to the young QB.

But then again I want Carl gone. If things like this speed up the process, then he can keep up his tough SOB negotiator persona and alienate the entire team.

[hawkchief]

If the Chiefs actually had a viable option at QB to replace Green it would be one thing, but the pathetic thing about this disgusting mess that Carl has created is the fact that Trent Green is still the best QB on the Chiefs' roster.

This reminds me of the Houston Oilers dumping Warren Moon for Cody Carlson and the 49ers dumping Jeff Garcia in favor of Tim Rattay. Those decisions destroyed those franchises and apparently that is what Carl is attempting to do here... completely destroy the franchise as his final "gift" to the fanbase.

You must have watched a different season than I did last year. Huard was 3X the QB Green was, and sticking with Green late in the season was simply idiotic. Granted Trent played in a funk, but who's to say he's out of it now?

We are going to suck this year and probably next, anyway, so I say get a fair deal done for Green, suck with Huard and Croyle, get some top draft picks in '08 and '09, and rethink it over the next couple of years.

And, by the way, get rid of the real problem, Carl Peterson, yesterday.

[FloridaMan88]

Fact remains, he is due something around 7.2 mil if he stays- the man is hardly on the cross.

As for the players in the locker room. There are very few that were around for most of his time. The oldest vets would be TG and Donnie Edwards, who is more than aware of the business side of being shown the door, yet that didn't stop him from coming back. Not buying what is being sold.



But why does the so-called "youth movement" only apply to certain players? Tony Gonzalez is on the other side of 30 now and was a complete no show in the playoff debacle in Indy yet that didn't stop Carl from giving him a fat new contract this offseason.

[Brock]

But why does the so-called "youth movement" only apply to certain players? Tony Gonzalez is on the other side of 30 now and was a complete no show in the playoff debacle in Indy yet that didn't stop Carl from giving him a fat new contract this offseason.

Just guessing, but I think Gonzalez might be pretty important to an inexperienced QB. Green could be also, if he'd only shut the **** up.

[Fish]

If the Chiefs actually had a viable option at QB to replace Green it would be one thing, but the pathetic thing about this disgusting mess that Carl has created is the fact that Trent Green is still the best QB on the Chiefs' roster.

This reminds me of the Houston Oilers dumping Warren Moon for Cody Carlson and the 49ers dumping Jeff Garcia in favor of Tim Rattay. Those decisions destroyed those franchises and apparently that is what Carl is attempting to do here... completely destroy the franchise as his final "gift" to the fanbase.

Carl is attempting to completely destroy the franchise?

You say a lot of stupid shit.... but that is just way out there....

[Fish]

The problem for Peterson and Edwards is that all the players in the locker room seem to agree with Green. They believe Green is unfairly being held hostage by the front office.

Have any other Chiefs players actually publicly said anything about this situation?

I've heard this thrown around a lot, but never actually seen the source of these claims....

[htismaqe]

Whitlock plays right into Carl's hand.

As does hawkchief, KCChiefsfan, and the rest of his normal detractors.

The overwhelming majority of fans think Trent is being a whiner.

Every article that comes out like this one further polarizes the argument.

Carl is winning.

[Reerun_KC]

As soon as Carl shows the ability to win in the playoffs or win at all without Marty I'll start caring if someone piles on his dumb ass.


No offense Simplex, but Carl hasnt proved sh*t in 18 years as the GM of the Chiefs...

If anything you can call his tenure a complete failure. He has only produced one AFC championship game and ZERO Superbowl appearances... IN 18 FREAKING YEARS!


With or without Mr Playoffs Victories (Marty) Carl hasnt produced as a GM... Carl has overstayed his welcome by at least 10 years...

[Messier]

Trent Green is cashing in all his good will with the media and the fans and it's working to some extent. He's got most of the media and some fans feeling sorry for him. But let's be real Green should not be pitied, and this deal has been screwed up by more than the Chiefs. Everyone is right when they say if Trent is mad he should also be mad at the Dolphins, they obviously didn't seem to feel they need him that badly. And the media says things like, " Well the dolphins are waiting for the Chiefs to release him, and why why shouldn't they if they can get him for nothing they should do it." So they think the Dolphins should get the best deal possible but not the Chiefs? The Dolphins holding out to get Trent for nothing is shrewd, but the Chiefs holding out to get more for Trent is mean. I see.

[Reerun_KC]

Whitlock plays right into Carl's hand.

As does hawkchief, KCChiefsfan, and the rest of his normal detractors.

The overwhelming majority of fans think Trent is being a whiner.

Every article that comes out like this one further polarizes the argument.

Carl is winning.


Carl is winning? Your probably right, but we still wont get a 4th for Trent....

We need to take our losses and move on...

[htismaqe]

Carl is winning? Your probably right, but we still wont get a 4th for Trent....

We need to take our losses and move on...

At this point, it's not about a 4th.

It's the perception of who wins and who loses.

[Reerun_KC]

At this point, it's not about a 4th.

It's the perception of who wins and who loses.


Well I dont completely disagree with JW's article.

We have seen this time and time again with Carl.. Remember John Tait? Honestly Htismaqe, Here is a shocker for you... I am pretty impressed with Herms ability to turn the roster completely around in less than 2 seasons... Cutting dead weight and such...

But I am extremely disappointed as a fan in Carl, Have been for years, Will be a glorious day in the History of the franchise when Carl departs Arrowhead for the last time...

[htismaqe]

Well I dont completely disagree with JW's article.

We have seen this time and time again with Carl.. Remember John Tait? Honestly Htismaqe, Here is a shocker for you... I am pretty impressed with Herms ability to turn the roster completely around in less than 2 seasons... Cutting dead weight and such...

But I am extremely disappointed as a fan in Carl, Have been for years, Will be a glorious day in the History of the franchise when Carl departs Arrowhead for the last time...

I've heard this 50 times in the last 2 days.

"Carl has done this over and over?"

"With who?"

"Well, there's John Tait."

Who else, BESIDES John Tait, has this happened with?

[Fish]

Well I dont completely disagree with JW's article.

We have seen this time and time again with Carl.. Remember John Tait?

Yes... and looking at it now, I'm very glad Carl didn't give Tait the huge contract he was after....

Maybe Carl knew what he was doing.... :eek:

[KCinNY]

Will be a glorious day in the History of the franchise when Carl departs Arrowhead for the last time...

I don't think anybody disagrees with this statement.

Nevertheless, Trent sure is being a puss.

[htismaqe]

Yes... and looking at it now, I'm very glad Carl didn't give Tait the huge contract he was after....

Maybe Carl knew what he was doing.... :eek:

It's just another example of how selective fans are in their criticisms.

When Tait was here, he got moved from LT to RT, so he was a "bust". Carl's fault.

Then we let him get away to Chicago for nothing. Carl's fault.

And you can bet your ass if we would have given him the kind of money Chicago gave him, that would also be Carl's fault.

The guy spent 15 years with Marty and Vermeil trying to build a team with aging veterans and it didn't work. Now he's trying to use a fresh approach, something the fans have been screaming for for a DECADE, and he's doing it wrong.

[crazycoffey]

HOLY SHIT.

REALITY CHECK: It's SPORTS.

Nobody's being crucified. Nobody's being fed to the lions. Nobody's being betrayed by the Jews. Nobody's being executed by the Romans.

Nobody's life is in danger.

Nobody's team is in danger.

A grown man who gets to play football for a living is in contractual limbo right now because trade negotiations have stalled.

This grown man is a millionaire.

This grown man is treated like a celebrity.

This grown man has a wife and children.

The team in question is comprised of other grown men.

They're not in danger. They're not in jeopardy. Nobody's cursed and nobody's in serious trouble. Things just aren't progressing the way we'd like them to in a perfect world.

Get some ****ing perspective, Jason. People can get on with their lives when they are surrounded with blood and chaos and layoffs and poverty. I know for a fact the team can get on with itself through this.

Can I neg rep Jason Whitlock? Is there somewhere I can go to do that?


:LOL: :clap: Rep

[Reerun_KC]

It's just another example of how selective fans are in their criticisms.

When Tait was here, he got moved from LT to RT, so he was a "bust". Carl's fault.

Then we let him get away to Chicago for nothing. Carl's fault.

And you can bet your ass if we would have given him the kind of money Chicago gave him, that would also be Carl's fault.

The guy spent 15 years with Marty and Vermeil trying to build a team with aging veterans and it didn't work. Now he's trying to use a fresh approach, something the fans have been screaming for for a DECADE, and he's doing it wrong.


Of course he is doing it wrong... If you cant build a team to appear in a Superbowl in 18 years something is wrong...

Plus he is the GM and we are fans, every move we dont like wether it is right or wrong, it will always be Carls fault...

Adjust the sarcasm meter this morning....

[el borracho]

Have any other Chiefs players actually publicly said anything about this situation?

I've heard this thrown around a lot, but never actually seen the source of these claims....
Brian Waters: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/119036.html

Left guard Brian Waters said he couldn’t respect Green more for the way he’s handling his uncertain future. Waters said the Chiefs’ management has mistreated Green.

“Considering the professional he’s been … I don’t think it’s fair to him,” Waters said. “I don’t think it’s fair. A guy in his position is owed the right to be in a stable position and know where he’s going to be at.

[the Talking Can]

But I am extremely disappointed as a fan in Carl, Have been for years, Will be a glorious day in the History of the franchise when Carl departs Arrowhead for the last time...

nobody loves Carl...jesus christ...but that has nothing to do with this specific negotiation....

you aren't the only one who wants Carl to leave, we all do...you're just the only one dumb enough to post the same thing 3000 times a day as if it mattered.....find something new to say for **** sake...

we have nothing to do with Carl staying or going....it is pointless to bring it up as if it makes you special...as in "special needs", that is...

[htismaqe]

Of course he is doing it wrong... If you cant build a team to appear in a Superbowl in 18 years something is wrong...

Plus he is the GM and we are fans, every move we dont like wether it is right or wrong, it will always be Carls fault...

Adjust the sarcasm meter this morning....

There's no need to adjust my sarcasm meter. I wasn't responding to you or anyone else specifically.

I was addressing the general feeling amongst the fanbase that everything is Carl's fault.

Hell, the radio callers will blame him for X and then turn around in the SAME CALL and blame him for Y, even when X and Y are diametrically opposed.

Yes, he's had 18 years. No, he's NEVER tried THIS approach. So not one person in the entire fanbase can say he's doing it "wrong" because they haven't seen the results yet.

[htismaqe]

Brian Waters: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/119036.html

Left guard Brian Waters said he couldn’t respect Green more for the way he’s handling his uncertain future. Waters said the Chiefs’ management has mistreated Green.

“Considering the professional he’s been … I don’t think it’s fair to him,” Waters said. “I don’t think it’s fair. A guy in his position is owed the right to be in a stable position and know where he’s going to be at.

I don't know about everybody else, but I'm sick to death of hearing this kind of stuff.

I can't wait for EVERY LAST Vermeil player to be gone, including Brian Waters if need be.

And they can take their sense of entitlement with them.

[Fish]

Adjust the sarcasm meter this morning....

You dope.... most people here know you better than that. You can't retract your statements and hide behind the sarcasm meter...

[Bugeater]

Brian Waters: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/119036.html

Left guard Brian Waters said he couldn’t respect Green more for the way he’s handling his uncertain future. Waters said the Chiefs’ management has mistreated Green.

“Considering the professional he’s been … I don’t think it’s fair to him,” Waters said. “I don’t think it’s fair. A guy in his position is owed the right to be in a stable position and know where he’s going to be at.
And once again, he'd have that stable position if the Dolphins weren't being buttheads about the whole deal.

[Reerun_KC]

There's no need to adjust my sarcasm meter. I wasn't responding to you or anyone else specifically.

I was addressing the general feeling amongst the fanbase that everything is Carl's fault.

Hell, the radio callers will blame him for X and then turn around in the SAME CALL and blame him for Y, even when X and Y are diametrically opposed.

Yes, he's had 18 years. No, he's NEVER tried THIS approach. So not one person in the entire fanbase can say he's doing it "wrong" because they haven't seen the results yet.


I dont disagree one bit....

And not bashing on Herm, but Carl could of used the "think outside the box" approach and hired someone that is hungry to make is mark, to build his own team, legacy and not hired another one of his puppet yes men..

But in all fairness to Herm.. So far so good, Last years playoffs was a fluke and may never happen like that agian, ever... But Herm is molding this team into a tougher more physical team and less of a finese p*ssy team that DV left...

I will reserve judgement to this year on Herm. IF he can improve his game management and offense play calling skills. Then he might be a coach worth praising... But his offseason moves are worth praising (except Trent).

[htismaqe]

And not bashing on Herm, but Carl could of used the "think outside the box" approach and hired someone that is hungry to make is mark, to build his own team, legacy and not hired another one of his puppet yes men.

You don't think Herm is one of those guys? You don't think he's eager to prove that he's more than the Marty-clone he appeared to be in New York?

I would say that Herm's actions so far are 100% indicative of a guy that's trying to build a team in his image and make his mark, for better or worse.

[Reerun_KC]

You dope.... most people here know you better than that. You can't retract your statements and hide behind the sarcasm meter...


ROFL, Actually KC Fish... You guys really dont know me at all.. It is easy to be a butt behind a monitor and keyboard... My online personality is nothing like what I really am.

But in real life, I am totally different... I am looking forward to meeting some of you guys at some CP events...

If you are ever or any planeteers are in OKC, BEERS are on me...

[Fish]

And not bashing on Herm, but Carl could of used the "think outside the box" approach and hired someone that is hungry to make is mark, to build his own team, legacy and not hired another one of his puppet yes men..

But in all fairness to Herm.. So far so good, Last years playoffs was a fluke and may never happen like that agian, ever... But Herm is molding this team into a tougher more physical team and less of a finese p*ssy team that DV left...


So.... Carl should have hired somebody who wants to build his own team the way the coach sees fit....

and Herm is changing this team from the crap that DV left....

:hmmm:

Hell, the radio callers will blame him for X and then turn around in the SAME CALL and blame him for Y, even when X and Y are diametrically opposed.

[Reerun_KC]

You don't think Herm is one of those guys? You don't think he's eager to prove that he's more than the Marty-clone he appeared to be in New York?

I would say that Herm's actions so far are 100% indicative of a guy that's trying to build a team in his image and make his mark, for better or worse.


Like have stated, His offseason moves for this team have been outstanding... I am very impressed with Herm and his offseason...

[el borracho]

I don't know about everybody else, but I'm sick to death of hearing this kind of stuff.

I can't wait for EVERY LAST Vermeil player to be gone, including Brian Waters if need be.

And they can take their sense of entitlement with them.
Well, I wouldn't be too eager to ditch Waters (this is his first stupid comment and who knows in what context he said those things) but I do agree in general- Vermeil's softies need to go.

[Reerun_KC]

So.... Carl should have hired somebody who wants to build his own team the way the coach sees fit....

and Herm is changing this team from the crap that DV left....

:hmmm:


Okay Fish, Look, It would of been a good time for Carl to "go out on a limb" and grab someone totally out of his comfort zone. Make a slash with the fans, etc.... A complete new look and direction for the Chiefs.

And correct, Herm is changing this team from the Crap DV left... Herm has made some very solid moves to get the Chiefs younger and is building a solid core of young players... Hats off to Herm so far this offseason...

Plus next year we should have an ass load of late round picks, Herm (I think and correct me if I am wrong?) has a history of getting some solid production out of late round players.

[Chiefnj]

I don't know about everybody else, but I'm sick to death of hearing this kind of stuff.

I can't wait for EVERY LAST Vermeil player to be gone, including Brian Waters if need be.

And they can take their sense of entitlement with them.

It's good to see that your hatred of Vermeil has spilled over to each and every player that was drafted, traded or signed as a free agent during his tenure.

[htismaqe]

Okay Fish, Look, It would of been a good time for Carl to "go out on a limb" and grab someone totally out of his comfort zone. Make a slash with the fans, etc.... A complete new look and direction for the Chiefs.

And correct, Herm is changing this team from the Crap DV left... Herm has made some very solid moves to get the Chiefs younger and is building a solid core of young players... Hats off to Herm so far this offseason...

Plus next year we should have an ass load of late round picks, Herm (I think and correct me if I am wrong?) has a history of getting some solid production out of late round players.

You wanted Carl to hire a coach who would:

1) Give the team a complete new look and direction.

Check, he did that.

2) Make a splash with the fans.

Sorry, he didn't do that. He'd be a pretty poor businessman if he let the fans dictate who he does or doesn't hire for a coach.

[htismaqe]

Well, I wouldn't be too eager to ditch Waters (this is his first stupid comment and who knows in what context he said those things) but I do agree in general- Vermeil's softies need to go.

That's why I qualified the mention of Waters with "if need be".

[hawkchief]

Whitlock plays right into Carl's hand.

As does hawkchief, KCChiefsfan, and the rest of his normal detractors.

The overwhelming majority of fans think Trent is being a whiner.

Every article that comes out like this one further polarizes the argument.

Carl is winning.

If you had bothered to read my post, you will notice that I said that Trent is being a baby. That doesn't change the fact that Carl Peterson is a poor GM that has overstayed his useful life, and once again has created unnecessary embarrasment to the organization. The fact that he keeps his job while being unable to elevate the franchise above mediocrity does actually bother some of us.

[htismaqe]

It's good to see that your hatred of Vermeil has spilled over to each and every player that was drafted, traded or signed as a free agent during his tenure.

ROFL

They're a bunch of spoiled babies who resent having to work for their jobs.

:deevee:

[Fish]

Okay Fish, Look, It would of been a good time for Carl to "go out on a limb" and grab someone totally out of his comfort zone. Make a slash with the fans, etc.... A complete new look and direction for the Chiefs.

And correct, Herm is changing this team from the Crap DV left... Herm has made some very solid moves to get the Chiefs younger and is building a solid core of young players... Hats off to Herm so far this offseason...

Plus next year we should have an ass load of late round picks, Herm (I think and correct me if I am wrong?) has a history of getting some solid production out of late round players.

I'm not really intending on hammering on you.... but seeing the moves Herm has been making, it's looking more and more like Carl is giving you exactly what you're asking for. That's the point I was trying to make.

[htismaqe]

If you had bothered to read my post, you will notice that I said that Trent is being a baby. That doesn't change the fact that Carl Peterson is a poor GM that has overstayed his useful life, and once again has created unnecessary embarrasment to the organization. The fact that he keeps his job while being unable to elevate the franchise above mediocrity does actually bother some of us.

I read every bit of your post.

Every time you open your mouth to criticize him, the polarity increases. You're helping him stay employed. Congratulations.

[Reerun_KC]

You wanted Carl to hire a coach who would:

1) Give the team a complete new look and direction.

Check, he did that.

2) Make a splash with the fans.

Sorry, he didn't do that. He'd be a pretty poor businessman if he let the fans dictate who he does or doesn't hire for a coach.

Your right, Carl cant let the fans run the team.. But hiring a coach outside of the "3 yards and a cloud of dust family tree" would of been nice...

That is all I am saying...

[Reerun_KC]

I'm not really intending on hammering on you.... but seeing the moves Herm has been making, it's looking more and more like Carl is giving you exactly what you're asking for. That's the point I was trying to make.

Understand and see above post...

[hawkchief]

I read every bit of your post.

Every time you open your mouth to criticize him, the polarity increases. You're helping him stay employed. Congratulations.

Criticizing Carl Peterson on a message board has no bearing on him staying employed. When more fans, like myself, turn in their seats and call BS, he will get canned and the franchise can move forward, not before.

[Coogs]

The Chiefs should cut Trent Green or trade him today. End of story.

The organization looks weak, mean-spirited and clueless every day they hold on to Green

If cutting Green is the option that pans out in this whole ordeal, wouldn't it be wiser to wait another week until June 1st? Other than being a distraction at OTA's, that move does not seem clueless to me.

[htismaqe]

Criticizing Carl Peterson on a message board has no bearing on him staying employed. When more fans, like myself, turn in their seats and call BS, he will get canned and the franchise can move forward, not before.

Your posts on this message board echo caller after caller on 810 and 610.

The criticisms of Carl are SO extreme (and often ridiculously unfounded to boot) that it polarizes not only Carl's supporters but it causes those in the middle or "on the fence" to gravitate AWAY from your position, rather than to it.

In the end, you end up with a fractured fanbase that's wholly incapable of effecting change because they can't build a simple majority.

Sounds a whole lot like our current political process.

[hawkchief]

Your posts on this message board echo caller after caller on 810 and 610.

The criticisms of Carl are SO extreme (and often ridiculously unfounded to boot) that it polarizes not only Carl's supporters but it causes those in the middle or "on the fence" to gravitate AWAY from your position, rather than to it.

In the end, you end up with a fractured fanbase that's wholly incapable of effecting change because they can't build a simple majority.

Sounds a whole lot like our current political process.

I don't consider stating the obvious - Peterson has not accomplished his stated 5-year plan, within 15 years- is "SO extreme". Conversely, it's stating the obvious. The obvious that the Hunts refuse to see.

If you think sitting back and not expressing a well-founded and widely shared opinion on a message board, for fear of being ridiculed by you, is the way to go, then I guess that is your right. Those of us who are sick and tired of seeing Carl Peterson prove year in and year out that he can't get the job done are equally tired of his defenders.

[htismaqe]

I don't consider stating the obvious - Peterson has not accomplished his stated 5-year plan, within 15 years- is "SO extreme". Conversely, it's stating the obvious. The obvious that the Hunts refuse to see.

ROFL

It goes much further than "stating the obvious". It gets into people saying that Carl is a "shallow man with no friends" and posters here suggesting that Carl is deliberately trying to decimate the franchise. Ridiculous innuendo hurts the cause, as does incessantly "stating the obvious" to the point where people are sick of it and will disagree with you even if you say "the sky is blue."

Those of us who are sick and tired of seeing Carl Peterson prove year in and year out that he can't get the job done are equally tired of his defenders.

Who are his "defenders"? By all means, point them out. Please.

[GoHuge]

I just wish they would get this deal done. I'm sick of seeing it, sick of reading it, and sick of listening to it on radio, all of it. I don't care who's fault it is, who looks bad, or who's ego gets boo booed. Just get it done!

[htismaqe]

I just wish they would get this deal done. I'm sick of seeing it, sick of reading it, and sick of listening to it on radio, all of it. I don't care who's fault it is, who looks bad, or who's ego gets boo booed. Just get it done!

That's where I'm at too...

[Cormac]

I just don't get the love for Carl in this. He is very much locked in as one of the bottom third of GM's in the game. Further, after all of this, we will be very lucky to win 7 games this year - and we get to watch run, run, pass, punt all year to boot. I understand it is a rebuild year, but does anyone on this board trust that King Carl is up to the task? I sure as hell don't.

Trent Green has done much more for me as a fan than Carl Peterson ever will. If Carl could build both sides of the line at the same time...maybe I would feel differently. But, he can't so I won't.

How many years since a playoff win, again???

Damn, we are such Cub fans.

We should all read this again.

The sad part of this is that Trent threw everything he had and more into his time as a Chief and I expected he'd always be treated with respect by the FO of the club and its fans. But so many have completely forgotten about his famous blocks on Priest's running plays, his scrambles for 1st down despite being slow as molasses, and his deep bombs to Kennison in stride.

Trent was a truly great Chief, and yet so many fans are so fickle.

I don't blame CP for playing hardball. He always has, and we'd be fools to expect that to change. However, I hope Trent gets what he wants. CP should see Trent's real value at this age, and compromise on a 6th rounder. Let's all move on and quit showing our ass.

[hawkchief]

ROFL

It goes much further than "stating the obvious". It gets into people saying that Carl is a "shallow man with no friends" and posters here suggesting that Carl is deliberately trying to decimate the franchise. Ridiculous innuendo hurts the cause, as does incessantly "stating the obvious" to the point where people are sick of it and will disagree with you even if you say "the sky is blue."



Who are his "defenders"? By all means, point them out. Please.

I think it's obvious to most people who have been around KC for the past 15 years what type of individual Peterson is. Most people have come to see him as an arrogant, greedy, opportunistic high-lifer that has personally profitted greatly from the fans of KC, and not given us the winner he promised. Many consider that kind of person shallow.

Some of us have encountered him socially as well. I personally attended a charity event 2 or 3 years ago that featured Willie Mays. Willie agreed to hold a brief autograph session after he spoke. Guess who sheepishly circled the crowd of autograph seekers and cut in line to get the last few autographs? Correct, none other than good ole Carl. I suspect there are others willing to share their experiences with the guy. I'm aware of others, and it's safe to say that Carl is not your typical Kansas Citian.

[Mr. Laz]

anyone else think that the biggest mistake the Chiefs made in all this was trusting Trent Green too much?


i mean they said "go find a team"


that gave Trent Green too much leeway .... i imagine they didn't expect Green to go find a team AND THEN do his best to squeeze the Chiefs with every tool at his disposal.

[BigChiefFan]

Green has turned into a 1st class whiner.

[hawkchief]

anyone else think that the biggest mistake the Chiefs made in all this was trusting Trent Green too much?


i mean they said "go find a team"


that gave Trent Green too much leeway .... i imagine they didn't expect Green to go find a team AND THEN do his best to squeeze the Chiefs with every tool at his disposal.

It's implict that whatever Carl told Green was contingent on fair and reasonable compensation being given the Chiefs as part of the deal, Trent knew and knows that. For Green to ignore that in his public whinings is disingenious on his part, and for the local press not to beat him over the head with it and expose him, is just pathetic journalism.

[OnTheWarpath15]

anyone else think that the biggest mistake the Chiefs made in all this was trusting Trent Green too much?


i mean they said "go find a team"


that gave Trent Green too much leeway .... i imagine they didn't expect Green to go find a team AND THEN do his best to squeeze the Chiefs with every tool at his disposal.

Yeah Laz, I mentioned that in the thread about his interview with KK.

Where CP made is mistake is showing Trent the respect to go out and find a team.

Loyalty got in the way, IMO. Carl should have found suitors for Trent, agreed on compensation, agreed on deals contingent on Trent working out a deal with the trading partner, etc.

THEN and only then should he have allowed Trent to pick-and-choose.

"Hey Trent, good news. Miami, Cleveland, Detroit, etc are interested in your services. We have adequate deals in place with whoever you choose. Good luck."

Funny thing is, had Carl gone about this the right way, Miami probably wouldn't have been an option, since they are STILL not willing to budge.

I wonder what Trent's stance would be if Miami wasn't an option?

[htismaqe]

I think it's obvious to most people who have been around KC for the past 15 years what type of individual Peterson is. Most people have come to see him as an arrogant, greedy, opportunistic high-lifer that has personally profitted greatly from the fans of KC, and not given us the winner he promised. Many consider that kind of person shallow.

Some of us have encountered him socially as well. I personally attended a charity event 2 or 3 years ago that featured Willie Mays. Willie agreed to hold a brief autograph session after he spoke. Guess who sheepishly circled the crowd of autograph seekers and cut in line to get the last few autographs? Correct, none other than good ole Carl. I suspect there are others willing to share their experiences with the guy. I'm aware of others, and it's safe to say that Carl is not your typical Kansas Citian.

Why would he be? He's from Philly.

Furthermore, people like you that actually care what kind of person Carl is off the field are the vast minority.

Even the people that aren't happy with Carl's ON FIELD performance and would like to see him leave (I'm one of them, BTW) aren't a clear majority, as evidenced by ticket sales each and every Sunday.

There's a ton of people out there that have considered joining the cause. Then they tune into a couple of minutes of Kevin Keitzman and they think "boy, if this guy speaks for the anti-Carl crowd, I don't want to be one of them".

[Simplex3]

No offense Simplex, but Carl hasnt proved sh*t in 18 years as the GM of the Chiefs...

If anything you can call his tenure a complete failure. He has only produced one AFC championship game and ZERO Superbowl appearances... IN 18 FREAKING YEARS!


With or without Mr Playoffs Victories (Marty) Carl hasnt produced as a GM... Carl has overstayed his welcome by at least 10 years...
WTF? Has reading comprehension gone out the window around here? Here was what I said. Try reading it slower.

As soon as Carl shows the ability to win in the playoffs or win at all without Marty I'll start caring if someone piles on his dumb ass.

In other words, Carl has not shown an ability to win in the playoffs. He also hasn't won during the regular season much since Marty left.

[Mr. Laz]

Yeah Laz, I mentioned that in the thread about his interview with KK.

Where CP made is mistake is showing Trent the respect to go out and find a team.

Loyalty got in the way, IMO. Carl should have found suitors for Trent, agreed on compensation, agreed on deals contingent on Trent working out a deal with the trading partner, etc.

THEN and only then should he have allowed Trent to pick-and-choose.

"Hey Trent, good news. Miami, Cleveland, Detroit, etc are interested in your services. We have adequate deals in place with whoever you choose. Good luck."

Funny thing is, had Carl gone about this the right way, Miami probably wouldn't have been an option, since they are STILL not willing to budge.

I wonder what Trent's stance would be if Miami wasn't an option?

i think Miami would of offered a 5th if Green and his agent hadn't told them that he was (basically) gonna help them squeeze the Chiefs for the lowest possible compensation.

[OnTheWarpath15]

i think Miami would of offered a 5th if Green and his agent hadn't told them that he was (basically) gonna help them squeeze the Chiefs for the lowest possible compensation.

True. Maybe even the 4th we've been asking for.

If you listened to the PC yesterday, someone (I think Rhonda) asked him about a 6th or 7th round pick being fair compensation for a starting QB.

He basically dodged the question, and no one pursued it further......

[hawkchief]

Why would he be? He's from Philly.

Furthermore, people like you that actually care what kind of person Carl is off the field are the vast minority.

Even the people that aren't happy with Carl's ON FIELD performance and would like to see him leave (I'm one of them, BTW) aren't a clear majority, as evidenced by ticket sales each and every Sunday.

There's a ton of people out there that have considered joining the cause. Then they tune into a couple of minutes of Kevin Keitzman and they think "boy, if this guy speaks for the anti-Carl crowd, I don't want to be one of them".

The best news for any of us who want Carl gone, regardless of whether you know him, like him or not, is the large number of advertisements for Chiefs Season tickets. Evidently, there are more and more people seeing through his BS and cashing out.

[Reerun_KC]

WTF? Has reading comprehension gone out the window around here? Here was what I said. Try reading it slower.



In other words, Carl has not shown an ability to win in the playoffs. He also hasn't won during the regular season much since Marty left.


ROFL, WTF? Simplex at that time of the month or what? Well Marty hasnt won much in the playoffs either since he left KC...

[Molitoth]

Usually I enjoy Whitlocks opinion, but this article was pretty bad.

[CosmicPal]

From what I understand, on draft day, Carl offered Green to Miami for their 6th pick and a swap in the 3rd or 4th round: We would have moved up 11 spots in one of those rounds.

Miami didn't budge. It's their loss. I think Carl made a fair offer there.

[htismaqe]

The best news for any of us who want Carl gone, regardless of whether you know him, like him or not, is the large number of advertisements for Chiefs Season tickets. Evidently, there are more and more people seeing through his BS and cashing out.

It only matters if the stadium is full. It really doesn't matter if it's season tickets or gameday tickets bought at the gate.

They can always just say that the economy prevents people from buying season tickets and that those people are opting for single-game tickets for fewer games.

It all depends on whether or not Arrowhead is full.

[chiefsfan1963]

whit is clueless like the rest of the media on this topic.

TG should not be blaming CP and the Chiefs he should be calling CAM and saying that if you want me you're going to have to give up something of value I'm not chopped liver. If Moss got a 4th then I should at least garner this if not a 3rd! Come on CAM pay up!

[htismaqe]

From what I understand, on draft day, Carl offered Green to Miami for their 6th pick and a swap in the 3rd or 4th round: We would have moved up 11 spots in one of those rounds.

Miami didn't budge. It's their loss. I think Carl made a fair offer there.

They didn't offer that deal.

It was actually fabricated by Clark Judge at the request of Carl Peterson.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=163444