How many of you Carl bashers have ever had to negotiate for ANYTHING in your life?

[Luzap]

I'm sorry ~ but many of you neophites have got me in a rage the likes of which only KC Wolfman or KCTitus would remember...

I'd really like to know how many of you arm chair QBs have had to negotiate for anything in your life, let alone do it over and over for a living?

I've got a strong feeling that 80+% of the criticism is comming from people that have have ABSOLUTELY NO PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE TO BACK UP THEIR POSITIONS.

Have any of you actually bought a new car at $50 dollars above invoice (factory discounts don't count)?

When you go in for your annual job performance review, do you meekly accept a 3% raise? (3% ~ give me a break ~ yeah, you're winning big !!!).

So go ahead, prove me wrong ~ share YOUR great negotiating triumphs with us (I dare you).
But before you get high and mighty, realize this ~ most of us that DO negotiate for a living get more minutes on our cell phones for less money than YOU spend. We save thousands of dollars on our mortgages and live in better homes than you do. Our children dress better than yours (do you really pay sticker price?). And our retirements aren't in mutual funds (ok, that's another discussion).

You hate Carl, fine ~ show me why I should listen to you ~ punk.

So prove me wrong you Carl Bashers ~ share your great negotiating triumphs with us ~ if you can.

Luz
this is what's known as a thread killer ~ the ones that need to hear this don't have the guts to respond...
(I can't blame them ~ those of you that remember know what I've done in the past.)...

[Hammock Parties]

Very interesting. Im just curious, what your profession?(i think i spelled that wrong, but too tired to really care anymore)

[Direckshun]

Dude, despite the fact that I was awkward, pimpled, and a physically inferior specimen, I somehow managed to get laid when I was 16.

I wrote the book on negotiation.

[Phobia]

Once I gave away half my ownership in a very successful website in exchange for the right to work with an incompetent boob for a year for the stellar salary of $500. I'm a winner. People like me.

[luv]

So what did you talk him into paying you to post this thread? :p

[AustinChief]

Once I gave away half my ownership in a very successful website in exchange for the right to work with an incompetent boob for a year for the stellar salary of $500. I'm a winner. People like me.

Ok... now THAT is funny...

[Luzap]

Once I gave away half my ownership in a very successful website in exchange for the right to work with an incompetent boob for a year for the stellar salary of $500. I'm a winner. People like me.

In my book, you have the right to criticize anyone ~ including King Carl.

Luz
I may not always agree with you, but you've earned my respect...

[Luzap]

So what did you talk him into paying you to post this thread? :p

Ah, Luv...

That is the true measure of fandom...

This rant is free of charge ~ I'll be rewarded greatly by the entertainment of idiotic responses that are sure to follow.

Luz
not losing faith in the illiterate masses...

[Phobia]

Very interesting. Im just curious, what your profession?(i think i spelled that wrong, but too tired to really care anymore)

If you really want to know, you should see www.hager.iact1.com/teamfreedom

Just a guess. ;)

[Phobia]

In my book, you have the right to criticize anyone ~ including King Carl.

Luz
I may not always agree with you, but you've earned my respect...

You have to be kidding. I'm a complete moron who should be sleeping right now. I don't even respect myself very much.

[Luzap]

If you really want to know, you should see www.hager.iact1.com/teamfreedom (http://www.hager.iact1.com/teamfreedom)

Just a guess. ;)

Can't slide anything past you :drool:

Luz
yeah, i help others for a living...

[Phobia]

Ok... now THAT is funny...

It's funny enough to cry. That guy keeps sending me email asking me to stop criticizing him in public or he's not going to pay me the rest of the money.

Uh, it's almost June, moron. The "I won't pay you if you don't play nice" threat kind expired the after the third month you promised to pay by the end of the month and failed to produce a nickel.

[AustinChief]

It's funny enough to cry. That guy keeps sending me email asking me to stop criticizing him in public or he's not going to pay me the rest of the money.

Uh, it's almost June, moron. The "I won't pay you if you don't play nice" threat kind expired the after the third month you promised to pay by the end of the month and failed to produce a nickel.

As my Irish friend Harry would say, JAZuss... feck the ****...

[AustinChief]

As my Irish friend Harry would say, JAZuss... feck the ****...
crap.. stymied by my own filters... the **** word was C U N T

[AustinChief]

It's funny enough to cry. That guy keeps sending me email asking me to stop criticizing him in public or he's not going to pay me the rest of the money.

Uh, it's almost June, moron. The "I won't pay you if you don't play nice" threat kind expired the after the third month you promised to pay by the end of the month and failed to produce a nickel.

side note: PM me and let's talk

[Luzap]

It's funny enough to cry. That guy keeps sending me email asking me to stop criticizing him in public or he's not going to pay me the rest of the money.

Uh, it's almost June, moron. The "I won't pay you if you don't play nice" threat kind expired the after the third month you promised to pay by the end of the month and failed to produce a nickel.
Ok phobia (I bleed BBQ sauce for you).. :p

But how do you rank yourself on the Luzap 'Right to criticize King Carl's negotiating skills' chart?

Luz
In my book,you've earned a seat at the table...
(bad negotiating experiences count ~ if you've learned from them)...

[Luzap]

BTW Kyle ~ hope you're doing well...

Luz
bow to the creator...

[AustinChief]

BTW Kyle ~ hope you're doing well...

Luz
bow to the creator...
Doing fine, and always good to hear from ya...

How about yourself?

[Phobia]

Ok phobia (I bleed BBQ sauce for you).. :p

But how do you rank yourself on the Luzap 'Right to criticize King Carl's negotiating skills' chart?

Luz
In my book,you've earned a seat at the table...
(bad negotiating experiences count ~ if you've learned from them)...

I rate myself right alongside the rest of the Chiefs fans. Everybody has the right to criticize Carl. Some of us just pick our battles a little better than others. Carl is well compensated for the trouble. The dude has really done an amazing job. The general attitude towards the Chiefs in this town is one of optimism - EVERY year. That's not an easy accomplishment, it's to Carl's credit.

[Luzap]

Doing fine, and always good to hear from ya...

How about yourself?

Absolutely awesome ~ thank you.

Don't spend as much time posting here anymore ~ too busy speaking to my groups in Guam, Texas, Colorado, New Mexico, New Jersey, and Maui (love Maui).

We're getting ready to go international ~ I'm trying to learn Tagolo...

But there will always be idiots that love bashing Carl ~ and I can probably always find time to bring them back down to earth ~ if they dare respond.

Luz
but then, who has the courage to display their idiocy???...

[Phobia]

but then, who has the courage to display their idiocy???...

I don't know if I'm that courageous, I'd submit that idiocy begets idiocy.

[luv]

I'll be rewarded greatly by the entertainment of idiotic responses that are sure to follow.

Luz
not losing faith in the illiterate masses...
I'll be doing good to keep my mouth shut then. Better to remain silent and make them wonder than it is to open my mouth and remove all doubt.






I'm too late for that, aren't I?

[Luzap]

I'll be doing good to keep my mouth shut then. Better to remain silent and make them wonder than it is to open my mouth and remove all doubt.

I'm too late for that, aren't I?

Ah, Luv,

It's all in fun...

We don't really know each other, but I would welcome any honest debate ~ but be warned, I don't play fair :)

Luz
i have this bad habit of making people back up their assertations (the first three letters usually say it all)...

[Luzap]

Dude, despite the fact that I was awkward, pimpled, and a physically inferior specimen, I somehow managed to get laid when I was 16.

I wrote the book on negotiation.

Dude, I don't know you. Are you an offical member of the 'King Carl Is The Worst GM In The NFL' club?

If you are, cool. Please give your reasons here so I can tear you apart.

Luz
if not ~ never mind...

[luv]

Ah, Luv,

It's all in fun...

We don't really know each other, but I would welcome any honest debate ~ but be warned, I don't play fair :)

Luz
i have this bad habit of making people back up their assertations (the first three letters usually say it all)...
Are you kidding? I'm in the middle of the football basics 101 class. I'm in no position to be able to debate anything.

[luv]

Dude, I don't know you. Are you an offical member of the 'King Carl Is The Worst GM In The NFL' club?

If you are, cool. Please give your reasons here so I can tear you apart.

Luz
if not ~ never mind...
Ah. This is one I'd like to see. Direckshun is an excellent debator, IMO.

[Luzap]

Ah. This is one I'd like to see. Direckshun is an excellent debator, IMO.

Oh, I can only hope...

But history shows that few have the intestinal fortitude.

Big Daddy is one of the few that ever did ~ not that I will ever agree with him :)

Luz
any takers???...

[SPchief]

Wow, Luzap, Austinchief, and endelt are making rare apperances. And on the same night. Odd.

[luv]

Wow, Luzap and endelt are making rare apperances. And on the same night.
You're really observant for a guy.

[Luzap]

Are you kidding? I'm in the middle of the football basics 101 class. I'm in no position to be able to debate anything.

The key to anything ~ humility !!!

Luv, life is not about who should I like, it's about whom should I believe/trust/follow...

Luz
whom to follow is the most mpoertant decision of a lifetime...

[luv]

The key to anything ~ humility !!!

Luv, life is not about who should I like, it's about whom should I believe/trust/follow...

Luz
whom to follow is the most mpoertant decision of a lifetime...
Okay, so why would Carl give Trent the opportunity to make his own deals?

[Luzap]

Okay, so why would Carl give Trent the opportunity to make his own deals?

Seriously???

Why not? (Trent) you've got conections ~ bring me the best deal you can.

Luz
save us some time and effort...

[luv]

Seriously???

Why not? (Trent) you've got conections ~ bring me the best deal you can.

Luz
save us some time and effort...
So, why not let every player do that?

And what do you do when the deal he brings you falls through?

[kcxiv]

I did all the time when i used to sell "stuff" when i was younger. had to work it like the ****ing stock market.

[Luzap]

So, why not let every player do that?

And what do you do when the deal he brings you falls through?

Luv,

Do you think any player can't do that?

Do you really think thati if Tony Gonzales came to Carl and said said Miami is willing to give two 1sts and a 3rd for me that Carl wouldn't listen?

Carl respected Trent enogh to tell him to go shop (most players don't have a say so in their trades), that doesn't mean that Carl's going to accept a bad deal ~ his responsibility is to the Chiefs football team. Do you want our team to be at an unfair disadvantage just because Trent really wants to play for Miami?

Luz
you could make an argument that each draft oick is worth $300,000 to your company. Would your employer give up $300,000 just because you wanted to work for XYZ instead of ZYX???...

[Luzap]

I did all the time when i used to sell "stuff" when i was younger. had to work it like the ****ing stock market.

kcxiv, thanks for trying... when you come down from your drugs please try again.

Posts on this thread should be literate and, at least, understandable. How does selling 'stuff' give you the right to criticize King Carl's actions?

Luz
adults only please...

[Luzap]

I'm going to bed now.

If anyone has the guts, please post an intelligent reply ~ I'll wake up around 10am cdt tomorrow and shred your pathetic attempts to bash Carl at that time.

Until then, Cao...

Luz
believe me, it won't take much time...

[Direckshun]

Dude, I don't know you. Are you an offical member of the 'King Carl Is The Worst GM In The NFL' club?

If you are, cool. Please give your reasons here so I can tear you apart.
Yes, I am of the opinion that Carl has completely mishandled this situation.

I mean it. I'm tired of being diplomatic. Green has handled this poorly, Miami has handled this poorly, but let's not overlook the elephant in the room. Carl Peterson has, once again, done his part to screw the potential out of the situation.

It's got his fingerprints all over it. Staring contest. Hand-sitting. Own-foot-shooting. Personnel in agony. Widespread public criticism. And forcing a fanbase of assholes like us to be patient enough for the smoke to clear so we can finally figure out if what we did was any good -- which, more often than not, is a negatory.

Carl's #1 mistake in this atrocity is allowing this situation to go public. That Trent was on the market was never a rumor -- it was a publicly stated fact. He gave Trent all the power to seek out situations and negotiate contracts with whomever he wanted. And when we finally did get several suitors, Carl set the bar unrealistically high that he scared off just about every one of them and eliminated the possibility that instead of him driving up the price through negotiation, the teams could have tried to outbid each other.

Bam, now we're stuck with only one or two teams and it's been so long we've got the player torpedoing our plans because we've given him the power to do so. All the while allowing the publicity in this situation to shoot through the roof, so now not only are we in a staring contest with the Dolphins, the entire ****ing nation is watching so it raises the stakes and lowers the likelihood that either team will want to compromise.

Are Trent and Miami to blame for acting like self-absorbed jerkoffs? Yes. But a deft hand could have managed this situation, whereas Carl has once again shown that his balls-out blitzkreigs are not Pro Football material.

[kcxiv]

kcxiv, thanks for trying... when you come down from your drugs please try again.

Posts on this thread should be literate and, at least, understandable. How does selling 'stuff' give you the right to criticize King Carl's actions?

Luz
adults only please...I am not on drugs, i havent done any since i was 18. You didnt say what kind of negotiating. It still works the same way though. You can choose to believe it or not. 1 person still has to give in to another.

*edit* I am also behind what Carl is doing. I think he is doing the right thing. Negotiating is still negotiating. Doesnt matter if its players, if its drugs, if its someone holding someone hostage. Its all a waiting game.

[Luzap]

Yes, I am of the opinion that Carl has completely mishandled this situation.

I mean it. I'm tired of being diplomatic. Green has handled this poorly, Miami has handled this poorly, but let's not overlook the elephant in the room. Carl Peterson has, once again, done his part to screw the potential out of the situation.

It's got his fingerprints all over it. Staring contest. Hand-sitting. Own-foot-shooting. Personnel in agony. Widespread public criticism. And forcing a fanbase of assholes like us to be patient enough for the smoke to clear so we can finally figure out if what we did was any good -- which, more often than not, is a negatory.

Carl's #1 mistake in this atrocity is allowing this situation to go public. That Trent was on the market was never a rumor -- it was a publicly stated fact. He gave Trent all the power to seek out situations and negotiate contracts with whomever he wanted. And when we finally did get several suitors, Carl set the bar unrealistically high that he scared off just about every one of them and eliminated the possibility that instead of him driving up the price through negotiation, the teams could have tried to outbid each other.

Bam, now we're stuck with only one or two teams and it's been so long we've got the player torpedoing our plans because we've given him the power to do so. All the while allowing the publicity in this situation to shoot through the roof, so now not only are we in a staring contest with the Dolphins, the entire ****ing nation is watching so it raises the stakes and lowers the likelihood that either team will want to compromise.

Are Trent and Miami to blame for acting like self-absorbed jerkoffs? Yes. But a deft hand could have managed this situation, whereas Carl has once again shown that his balls-out blitzkreigs are not Pro Football material.

Derickshun,

Thank you for having the guts to respond (I'll respect you enough to answer before I retire for the night ~ although you may wish I hadn't),

The whole point of this thread is to determine if I, or anyone else, should give your opinion the time of day. What negotiating credentials do you bring to the table? What have you successfully negotiated in your life ~ let alone multi-million dollar contracts with other negotiating professionals?

Personally, I am sick and tired of every yahoo that can scrape together $40 bucks to buy a Chiefs jersey thinking they are expert enough to criticize the front office of my favorite team.

The key to my success in life has been to learn from those that successfully go before me. So please, enlighten me. Tell me why I should give your opinion more credence than those that have spent 30 years at their profession in professional sports? Ego is an amazing thing !!!

Your rant, to me, sounds like you're pissed off because you (the fan) is inconvienenced (who sold you on that idea)? Methinks you listen to too much sports radio ~ their ratings depend on guys like you. Any clear headed individual will know that this is about what is best for the team.

But I am very willing to learn from my betters... Please, if all this touchy-feely stuff that you mention is really worth more than a draft pick position I'd really like to know why. Please site your cedentials in negotiation OR professional sports ~ otherwize please go away.

Luz
no holds barred ~ back it up, or shut up...

[luv]

Derickshun,

Thank you for having the guts to respond (I'll respect you enough to answer before I retire for the night ~ although you may wish I hadn't),

The whole point of this thread is to determine if I, or anyone else, should give your opinion the time of day. What negotiating credentials do you bring to the table? What have you successfully negotiated in your life ~ let alone multi-million dollar contracts with other negotiating professionals?

Personally, I am sick and tired of every yahoo that can scrape together $40 bucks to buy a Chiefs jersey thinking they are expert enough to criticize the front office of my favorite team.

The key to my success in life has been to learn from those that successfully go before me. So please, enlighten me. Tell me why I should give your opinion more credence than those that have spent 30 years at their profession in professional sports? Ego is an amazing thing !!!

Your rant, to me, sounds like you're pissed off because you (the fan) is inconvienenced (who sold you on that idea)? Methinks you listen to too much sports radio ~ their ratings depend on guys like you. Any clear headed individual will know that this is about what is best for the team.

But I am very willing to learn from my betters... Please, if all this touchy-feely stuff that you mention is really worth more than a draft pick position I'd really like to know why. Please site your cedentials in negotiation OR professional sports ~ otherwize please go away.

Luz
no holds barred ~ back it up, or shut up...
Ohhhhh.....

So the point isn't to debate the topic, the point is to let us know how great you are by belittling others.

Gotcha. That was so not worth staying up to read.

[Direckshun]

The whole point of this thread is to determine if I, or anyone else, should give your opinion the time of day. What negotiating credentials do you bring to the table? What have you successfully negotiated in your life ~ let alone multi-million dollar contracts with other negotiating professionals?

Personally, I am sick and tired of every yahoo that can scrape together $40 bucks to buy a Chiefs jersey thinking they are expert enough to criticize the front office of my favorite team.

The key to my success in life has been to learn from those that successfully go before me. So please, enlighten me. Tell me why I should give your opinion more credence than those that have spent 30 years at their profession in professional sports? Ego is an amazing thing !!!

Your rant, to me, sounds like you're pissed off because you (the fan) is inconvienenced (who sold you on that idea)? Methinks you listen to too much sports radio ~ their ratings depend on guys like you. Any clear headed individual will know that this is about what is best for the team.

But I am very willing to learn from my betters... Please, if all this touchy-feely stuff that you mention is really worth more than a draft pick position I'd really like to know why. Please site your cedentials in negotiation OR professional sports ~ otherwize please go away.
I.E. "If your job isn't as good as my job at negotiating, you have no business criticizing people who have better jobs than both of us."

Don't waste my time with your penis comparisons.

I've made my arguments against the man in this situation. When you want to actually rebut my argument instead of committing yourself to an "appeal to authority" fallacy, I'll be there.

Direckshun
Argumentum ad verecundiam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_verecundiam), bitches: the validity of a claim does not follow from the credibility of the source.

[Abba-Dabba]

Ego is an amazing thing !!!

It is, isn't it?

[Abba-Dabba]

What I find funny about this whole thing. Is Luz acting as if he the end-all-be-all negotiator. Please tell me how many negotiations have you won Luz while calling those you are negotiating with words like idiots or insinuating them as drug addicts and/or children? Have alittle tact for petes sake.

In other words, put down the bottle of liquid courage. On the table preferably and not down the throat. BTW, Ciao!

[Spott]

I really don't have anything to say about CP, but my opinion is that if you are a customer and buy tickets, jerseys, etc., then you do have a right to bash the front office, even if your opinions that you are expressing aren't that well thought out. Customers always have a right to be heard, even if they are idiots and their kids don't dress as preppy as Luz's.

:)

[Fairplay]

No one on the board has the right to disagree with Carls decision making.

He is the all seeing and all knowing.

[Slick32]

You have to be kidding. I'm a complete moron who should be sleeping right now. I don't even respect myself very much.

There are others that respect you less.

[Kerberos]

I once negotiated my wife out of the bathroom so I could drop a log. She had to return to get ready for work. She was not pleased.

[chagrin]

Wow, this is pretty weird. I don't know this guy at all but he's got to be the most goofy goofball I have ever seen here. Luv made a good comment, all he's doing is belittling people. Judging from his multi level marketing website - he's obviously a Tony Robbins wannabe.
I am glad you are successful sir, but it doesn't really give you any more credibility than anyone else here with a good control of the English language.

We already have experts with semantics here at CP, they reside in the DC forum. Judging from what you've written so far, even they would tear you apart; that would be funny, you'd be stuck in a maze of circular logic and we'de probably not see you again for a few years.

[OldTownChief]

I was a purchasing agent for 5 years with York int. Had to change occupations due to the stress of that job.

[Slick32]

Outside of my home I don't have to negotiate unless you would consider having to discuss an inappropriate practices or irregular items in the specification details of a project to be negotiating. I develop and program industrial controls so by the time I get the project the sales negotiations are completed.

I do see the bashing of CP comparable to a carpenter that blames the hardware store for providing him bad tools when the house he just built is falling apart.

Carl provides players based on the overall need of the team and desires of the HC. They pick those guys from a pool of people that are judged to be worthy of playing pro ball. Those that judge whether someone is worthy to be drafted aren't all employed by the Chiefs, they are part of all of the NFL teams and their extended scouting network.

I have never understood the bashing, other than he is a very public figure in the Chiefs organization. Now, if he were coaching and calling the plays every game there might be more reason to call him out for the results of the games and the playoffs.

[Hootie]

I'm in a madden league that has been running for about three years now...

A lot of fun...we all GM a team and make trades blah blah blah...

Think fantasy...

Well this off-season, I made a trade:

Trade 42
To: Texans ------- Hootie - TJ Houshmandzedeh, Dallas Clark, Clint Ingram, Michael Clayton, rookie picks 14, 24, 74, 1st (Vikings, 2008)
To: Vikings ---------- Pao - Larry Johnson, Jeremy Stevens

Getting a #1 WR, an upgrade TE, a young stud LB, a decent WR, three 1sts and a 3rd for LJ and a POS TE is pretty damn good negotiating skills, if you ask me ;)

[The Bad Guy]

I used to think Luzap was a good poster. Boy, was I wrong.

[Fairplay]

Well~

Does anyone dare cross the line and show your negotiating skills~

Common Punk~ show me your skills~

~SHOW ME YOUR SKILLS I DARE YOU~

I save money on my auto insurance also do you~


~~~~~~~~~~~Lets get it on~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Slick32]

I'm in a madden league that has been running for about three years now...

A lot of fun...we all GM a team and make trades blah blah blah...

Think fantasy...

Well this off-season, I made a trade:

Trade 42
To: Texans ------- Hootie - TJ Houshmandzedeh, Dallas Clark, Clint Ingram, Michael Clayton, rookie picks 14, 24, 74, 1st (Vikings, 2008)
To: Vikings ---------- Pao - Larry Johnson, Jeremy Stevens

Getting a #1 WR, an upgrade TE, a young stud LB, a decent WR, three 1sts and a 3rd for LJ and a POS TE is pretty damn good negotiating skills, if you ask me ;)Think fantasy...

[Hootie]

who cares? It's fun and competitive.

[Slick32]

I used to think Luzap was a good poster. Boy, was I wrong.I can understand his angst. A team that we all love and watch every year. Either we are fans or we aren't. The blame game can destroy what you one thought of as your team. Not the franchise as we know it, but it deteriorates the fan base.

Everyone says they bitch here and then are 100% fans when the game starts. I don't think you can turn it on and off like that.

[Slick32]

who cares? It's fun and competitive.

I don't think the comparison matches up with negotiations on the scale that CP does to gain additions to the team. That one task overshadows anything we could do as negotiators unless we are working on world peace.

[Hootie]

I don't even know what's going on...

I think Carl does a good job. I think the majority of the people on this board are ****ing idiots.

[Slick32]

I don't even know what's going on...

I think Carl does a good job. I think the majority of the people on this board are ****ing idiots.

Based on this reply I think you probably have a better grip on things than most.

[The Bad Guy]

I can understand his angst. A team that we all love and watch every year. Either we are fans or we aren't. The blame game can destroy what you one thought of as your team. Not the franchise as we know it, but it deteriorates the fan base.

Everyone says they bitch here and then are 100% fans when the game starts. I don't think you can turn it on and off like that.

It's not black and white.

Just becuase you're not an almighty negotiatior like him, doesn't mean you don't know what you're talking about.

The blame game happens because we haven't won a playoff game in 14 years.

[chagrin]

I can understand his angst. A team that we all love and watch every year. Either we are fans or we aren't. The blame game can destroy what you one thought of as your team. Not the franchise as we know it, but it deteriorates the fan base.

Everyone says they bitch here and then are 100% fans when the game starts. I don't think you can turn it on and off like that.


It's not angst, it's pure arrogance. He came in, cited familiarity with older CP members (like all insecure posters do) and began threatening people with his so-called superior intellect. Everyone here has the right to bash Carl or Trent is they want, come on dude. The issue is are the statements being made intelligent or just silliness.

[keg in kc]

Man, while I'm not at all on the team's back about this, I've got to say this is a lame, lame, lame, lame thread. I mean, Jesus, it's as bad as the morons who think that you have to have played football to have the right to talk about it.

Reality check: I've never negotiated anything either. And I've been all over the board supporting the Chiefs about this. Should I just shut up? Am I unqualified to have an opinion?

:shake:

[Chiefnj]

Carl paid $51.37 over invoice on his car. I think you should be the GM with your superior skills.

[Sully]

I've never negotiated anything terribly substantial, but I'm also on Carl's side here...
Does that make my opinion less valid, as well?

[HemiEd]

I think somebody was pretty drunk when they made this thread. NTTIAWWT

[Groves]

I see that some of you wrote the book on negotiating. I wouldn't mind reading it. What would you suggest?

[Simplex3]

When you go in for your annual job performance review, do you meekly accept a 3% raise? (3% ~ give me a break ~ yeah, you're winning big !!!).
I got 3 guys making $40k, $45k, and $60k a move to a new company where they each made $125k + 5% of net profits.

Does that count, or is that not enough for you?

[Iowanian]

I'm an excellent Negotiator, a real tough SOB, now STFD and STFU Lazup! I didn't pay $40 for my jersey, I engaged in a hostile takeover at a garage sale when the geriatric grandmother was working table, for $3.50 and a stack of Used Bingo cards.

How Good am I? I've sold Ice to Eskimoes, Pig shit to Hog farmers, Dead Cows to Ranchers, and conned 4000 suckers into paying to join my pyramid scheme, in which they'll buy some generic rolaids and get their friends to buy in, getting me yet another cut. I once won a $4000 bar bet because I wagered I could get a guy to stuff a cactus in his ass for less than $10.....and he did it for 1 more shot of Tequilla!

I'm El Awesomo. My System is HUGE in Nigeria!

[Otter]

I'm sorry ~ but many of you neophites have got me in a rage the likes of which only KC Wolfman or KCTitus would remember...

I'd really like to know how many of you arm chair QBs have had to negotiate for anything in your life, let alone do it over and over for a living?

I've got a strong feeling that 80+% of the criticism is comming from people that have have ABSOLUTELY NO PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE TO BACK UP THEIR POSITIONS.

Have any of you actually bought a new car at $50 dollars above invoice (factory discounts don't count)?

When you go in for your annual job performance review, do you meekly accept a 3% raise? (3% ~ give me a break ~ yeah, you're winning big !!!).

So go ahead, prove me wrong ~ share YOUR great negotiating triumphs with us (I dare you).

But before you get high and mighty, realize this ~ most of us that DO negotiate for a living get more minutes on our cell phones for less money than YOU spend. We save thousands of dollars on our mortgages and live in better homes than you do. Our children dress better than yours (do you really pay sticker price?). And our retirements aren't in mutual funds (ok, that's another discussion).

You hate Carl, fine ~ show me why I should listen to you ~ punk.

So prove me wrong you Carl Bashers ~ share your great negotiating triumphs with us ~ if you can.

Luz
this is what's known as a thread killer ~ the ones that need to hear this don't have the guts to respond...
(I can't blame them ~ those of you that remember know what I've done in the past.)...

Could you take those almighty skills of yours and help Carl negotiate well enough to add another (for a total of 2) successful playoff season before he hits the 20 year mark?

That'd be great now if you could move your desk as close to the wall as possible so we can fit these boxes in here...

[Iowanian]

I'd like Carl to negotiate a playoff win.

Speaking of win....in all seriousness, for being such a "tough SOB negotiator"...what is the last real negotiation where he really came out on top?

I'm not a big CP basher, and I think he's right to hold out for Miami to up the offer in this case, as his job is to protect the Chiefs interest, not the players feelings from Butthurt. Scott Paoli he is not.

Which team is the last that Carl really got over on in a trade? Who is the last player that Carl Swooped in and stole from the grasp of another team? Ryan Sims?

I'm of the opinion that 18 years is enough for a 5 year plan, and I'd like to see a change.

[KC Jones]

At the 5th grade barter system swap, I traded a plastic jeep (Tonka I believe) for a set of drafting tools.

THREAD OVER!!!!

[htismaqe]

I used to think Luzap was a good poster. Boy, was I wrong.

I'm having a hard time believing that it's the REAL Luz...

[Brock]

Wow, what an arrogant dipshit.

[Fat Elvis]

Maybe Luzap is the master negotiator.

$54.95 for a 32 oz. bottle of, well, the best I can tell (the product description is pretty unclear) from the product page, an energy drink?

http://www.marketwire.com/mw/frame_multimedia?prid=124305&attachid=259406

[Chiefnj]

This is the Luzap I remember. Delusions of grandeur and the stolen Gaz-like sign off on the bottom of every post.

-- Am I the only one that is intelligent enough to remember this accurately??

[htismaqe]

This is the Luzap I remember. Delusions of grandeur and the stolen Gaz-like sign off on the bottom of every post.

-- Am I the only one that is intelligent enough to remember this accurately??

Too be honest, it was a long time ago...

This reminds me of KCJ.

By the way, remembering doesn't have anything to do with intelligence. :D

[htismaqe]

side note: PM me and let's talk

Well this outta be interesting.

[Iowanian]

I recently negotiated free pie and icecream for 150 attendees of a meeting I sponsored.

I'm waiting for my real chance when I win on my appearance on the
http://www.gsn.com/shows/elements/images/S1_C.jpg

[chiefsfan1963]

I'm sorry ~ but many of you neophites have got me in a rage the likes of which only KC Wolfman or KCTitus would remember...

I'd really like to know how many of you arm chair QBs have had to negotiate for anything in your life, let alone do it over and over for a living?

I've got a strong feeling that 80+% of the criticism is comming from people that have have ABSOLUTELY NO PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE TO BACK UP THEIR POSITIONS.

Have any of you actually bought a new car at $50 dollars above invoice (factory discounts don't count)?

When you go in for your annual job performance review, do you meekly accept a 3% raise? (3% ~ give me a break ~ yeah, you're winning big !!!).

So go ahead, prove me wrong ~ share YOUR great negotiating triumphs with us (I dare you).
But before you get high and mighty, realize this ~ most of us that DO negotiate for a living get more minutes on our cell phones for less money than YOU spend. We save thousands of dollars on our mortgages and live in better homes than you do. Our children dress better than yours (do you really pay sticker price?). And our retirements aren't in mutual funds (ok, that's another discussion).

You hate Carl, fine ~ show me why I should listen to you ~ punk.

So prove me wrong you Carl Bashers ~ share your great negotiating triumphs with us ~ if you can.

Luz
this is what's known as a thread killer ~ the ones that need to hear this don't have the guts to respond...
(I can't blame them ~ those of you that remember know what I've done in the past.)...

I'm a true CP basher and can't wait until his dynasty ends, but he is one of the best GM's when it comes to negotiating and he is doing everything right in this situation. I guess perhaps the only thing both Herm and CP could of done during the offseason is not have been too vocal about the possibility of cutting Trent. They could have kept their cards closeer to the vest and possibly avoided a little bit of this drama.

[Bob Dole]

Bob Dole bought some Adam's flea spray the other day and the total came to $14.02. Bob Dole convinced the guy to eat the $.02.

There's something about someone's "two cents worth" in there somewhere, but Bob Dole is too busy negotiating his next trip to the coffee maker to **** with it at the moment.

[chagrin]

Maybe Luzap is the master negotiator.

$54.95 for a 32 oz. bottle of, well, the best I can tell (the product description is pretty unclear) from the product page, an energy drink?

http://www.marketwire.com/mw/frame_multimedia?prid=124305&attachid=259406


Well yeah, he's the master negotiator because he persuaded a bunch of fools to sign up under him in the pyramid by playing on their dreams. That's why he travels so much, fresh meat.

[trndobrd]

This is the Luzap I remember. Delusions of grandeur and the stolen Gaz-like sign off on the bottom of every post.

-- Am I the only one that is intelligent enough to remember this accurately??


Intelligent, huh? Have you had a job where you have to show your intelligence? You have no right to question someone's intelligence until you have had a job that requires real intelligence. Explain yourself! I am SO intelligent I have the bank paying ME interest on my mortgage and my boss gave me a 200 percent raise and a night with his daughter. You are so stupid you probably have your retirement in mutual funds instead of earning REAL money through residual income from snake oil sales. Quit being a punk and tell us what you have done that is so intelligent.

[Chiefnj]

Too be honest, it was a long time ago...

This reminds me of KCJ.

By the way, remembering doesn't have anything to do with intelligence. :D

You've got it all wrong.

Your last line should have been

-- Of course I remember. I am far too intelligent not to have remembered. I was just too busy negotiating the price of my morning latte. I was able to purchase a large coffee for 2 cents above cost. Unless you have been able to purchase coffee for less than that, do not bother to respond.

[htismaqe]

You've got it all wrong.

Your last line should have been

-- Of course I remember. I am far too intelligent not to have remembered. I was just too busy negotiating the price of my morning latte. I was able to purchase a large coffee for 2 cents above cost. Unless you have been able to purchase coffee for less than that, do not bother to respond.

Shit. I paid $4.16 for my coffee this morning and the guy next to me said he got the same thing for $2.10.

What am I doing wrong?

[The Bad Guy]

Too be honest, it was a long time ago...

This reminds me of KCJ.

By the way, remembering doesn't have anything to do with intelligence. :D

It reeks of insecurity - just like all of KCJ's posts.

You're right ChiefNJ, Luzap will appear from time to time, rip off Gaz and sing sunshine up our ass that only someone like Chris Meck could understand.

[htismaqe]

Intelligent, huh? Have you had a job where you have to show your intelligence? You have no right to question someone's intelligence until you have had a job that requires real intelligence. Explain yourself! I am SO intelligent I have the bank paying ME interest on my mortgage and my boss gave me a 200 percent raise and a night with his daughter. You are so stupid you probably have your retirement in mutual funds instead of earning REAL money through residual income from snake oil sales. Quit being a punk and tell us what you have done that is so intelligent.

ROFL

[The Bad Guy]

Shit. I paid $4.16 for my coffee this morning and the guy next to me said he got the same thing for $2.10.

What am I doing wrong?

Not going to Maui to listen to the almighty Luzap tell you how to negotiate.

[htismaqe]

It reeks of insecurity - just like all of KCJ's posts.

You're right ChiefNJ, Luzap will appear from time to time, rip off Gaz and sing sunshine up our ass that only someone like Chris Meck could understand.

At least Chris Meck's rays of hope are well-reasoned. I don't think I've ever seen him end one of his page-long posts with "you wouldn't know what I'm talking about because I'm better than you!"

[The Bad Guy]

At least Chris Meck's rays of hope are well-reasoned. I don't think I've ever seen him end one of his page-long posts with "you wouldn't know what I'm talking about because I'm better than you!"

You're right. I shouldn't dog Chris Meck like that because he is informed.

[unothadeal]

~

[KC Jones]

Intelligent, huh? Have you had a job where you have to show your intelligence? You have no right to question someone's intelligence until you have had a job that requires real intelligence. Explain yourself! I am SO intelligent I have the bank paying ME interest on my mortgage and my boss gave me a 200 percent raise and a night with his daughter. You are so stupid you probably have your retirement in mutual funds instead of earning REAL money through residual income from snake oil sales. Quit being a punk and tell us what you have done that is so intelligent.


ROFL

Speaking of snake oil, I decided to do a little research on our brilliant Luzap's MLM and found these gems:

I was an "IBO" with CyberWize late last year. I lost almost $1200 over four months and this was *after* I built my downline.

Remember that you only have 72 hours to get a 100% refund. http://scam.com/newreply.php?do=new...uote=1&p=28325#

I found this on another sight. I wish I had seen this last October:

1. In the summer of 2004, CyberWize was fined $100,000 by the Economic
Crime Division of the Florida Office of the Attorney General.

http://www.bbbwestflorida.org/commo...tml?bid=6180112

2. Former CyberWize executive Gregg Sturz has said that, "In addition
to the deceptive statements and practices of the Plaintiff its
promotion of an inherently fraudulent pyramid scheme "omits to state a
material fact" when it does not explain to its Êdistributors that the
program is bound to collapse."

http://www.davideisenstein.com/Answ...claim070204.pdf

3. According to the Better Business Bureau, CyberWize has an
"unsatisfactory" record in dealing with customer complaints.

http://www.bbbwestflorida.org/commo...tml?bid=6180112

4. In October of 1996, CyberWize owner Mark McCool "agreed to pay
restitution and agreed to a revocation of his insurance license. This
action was based on allegations of utilizing premiums for his own
use."

http://oci.wi.gov/admact/nr1096.htm

5. "The mean average income of the bottom 99% of the active Cyberwize
sales representatives was $5.61 per week (before expenses and taxes
are deducted resulting in a significant loss)."

http://www.falseprofits.com/MythofMLMIncome.doc.pdf

6. CyberWize was fined $3,000 in 2004 through "Project Biz Opp Flop, a
coordinated attack on misleading and bogus money-making schemes."

http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/press/2005/02222005.html


My family and several friends joined Cyberwize 2 years ago. The quality of the products are excellent. However, it is not a get rich quick plan. The business has many hidden cost. Do you really think you can start any business with just $99.00. When we joined we believe in what we were doing. Every time we turned around they change the products. The Health Care Program was great with the residual income and just after we spent MONEY in training, they pulled the program. Ouch! Then the Travel Program was changed from what we purchased, again Ouch!

Sounds like he's really helping people (to put money in his pocket).

[htismaqe]

You're right. I shouldn't dog Chris Meck like that because he is informed.

:D

Given what goes on here on a daily basis, I'd have to say that ill-informed is better than uninformed.

[penguinz]

Luz - Did you model your life after Richard Addison's?

[crazycoffey]

I once wrote a guy four traffic tickets and got a handshake and a "thank you" on his way off.

If that's not negotiation skill, then I fail to reckonize you definition. :)


-Oh, and I only am up for the change of Carl because he's been there for soooooo long. Really, I've always felt that he has done a good job signing players, trying to bring in talent (not entirely his fault that at times his talent evaluators stunk) He gave support to his coachs and sometimes went over them with a decision that needed to be made (LJ, duh).

I know, I know - five year plan? But overall, I've not been a basher.....

[Nzoner]

I really don't have anything to say about CP, but my opinion is that if you are a customer and buy tickets, jerseys, etc., then you do have a right to bash the front office, even if your opinions that you are expressing aren't that well thought out. Customers always have a right to be heard, even if they are idiots and their kids don't dress as preppy as Luz's.

:)

This is one of the most intelligent posts of this thread,as a full time negotiator myself I rely on my customers and their input to help me to continue to build my business.

As a long time "real fan" of the Chiefs I was appalled that neither Carl nor the organization sent me a thank you for my years of support.Hell I recently had a customer who had been with me for 15 years decide to go elsewhere and instead of having the attitude of oh well I'll just replace him I sent him a nice thank you for his years of support and partnership and assured him if he ever needed our product again we'd be there for him.

I won't discount the fact that Carl had a good run but business is business and your fans/customers are the backbone.

[chagrin]

ROFL

Speaking of snake oil, I decided to do a little research on our brilliant Luzap's MLM and found these gems:





Sounds like he's really helping people (to put money in his pocket).


Excellent find dude, that's going to be good ammo for when he appears again, if it's really him like someone eluded to earlier.

[Mr. Laz]

hehe ... about the only time Luzap posts anymore is when he feels the need to scold us.


from Mod to residence mother is such a short time ROFL

[Frazod]

Well, I'll say this for Luz, he doesn't post very often, but when he does, he certainly makes an impact. :)

[Abba-Dabba]

Excellent find dude, that's going to be good ammo for when he appears again, if it's really him like someone eluded to earlier.

Last activity 10:28am today.

He did say somewhere last night he would be on around 10am to respond to everyone. Guess he thought better of it. :shrug:

[Reerun_KC]

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/gay.jpg

[Iowanian]

KCJONES! IF YOU HAVE THE BOAWS TO DEBATE THAT!!!!!!!!!!

SPITBAOWS!!!!
http://2004.georgewbush.org/convention/images/zell-miller.jpg

[KC Jones]

KCJONES! IF YOU HAVE THE BOAWS TO DEBATE THAT!!!!!!!!!!

SPITBAOWS!!!!
http://2004.georgewbush.org/convention/images/zell-miller.jpg

I have craps bigger and meaner than zell miller every day. Usually right after my 4th cup of coffee.

:D

[chagrin]

Just some more dirt, lol!

"From Cyberwize's own promotional informationl
The disclaimer on this company's own streaming video recruitment promotion indicates that 52 percent of the 'business owners' actually made NO sales in 2005 and of the remaining 48 percent, the average income was a little over 6000 dollars.

And like most MLM recruitments, it cuts off just as it appeared to be beginning to give any concrete info on what the business really sells."

This was taken from one of THESE articles (http://ripoffreport.com/searchresults.asp?q1=ALL&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0&submit2=Search%21&q5=cyberwize)

Haha, I guess Luz and Consuela are enjoying themselves on all the vacations at the expense of a bunch of fools.

[Mr. Laz]

Haha, I guess Luz and Consuela are enjoying themselves on all the vacations at the expense of a bunch of fools.
so you're saying that Luzap doesn't post much anymore because he now lives a "mobile" life?!? :hmmm:

[Brock]

so you're saying that Luzap doesn't post much anymore because he now lives a "mobile" life?!? :hmmm:

Private jets usually have wifi, so I don't know why that would be.

[htismaqe]

so you're saying that Luzap doesn't post much anymore because he now lives a "mobile" life?!? :hmmm:

"mobile" = "on the run"

[Otter]

Does Rick Moranis know you're posting pictures of him on your website?

http://www.thebeststuffintheworld.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/rick-moranis-21437.jpg

[KC Jones]

Private jets usually have wifi, so I don't know why that would be.

He negotiated a discount on an older model jet without wifi?

:shrug:

[Iowanian]

I'd like to stay and chat, but off to have a negotiation with an American Standard about its true load capacity and then hit the road.

[chagrin]

Does Rick Moranis know you're posting pictures of him on your website?

http://www.thebeststuffintheworld.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/rick-moranis-21437.jpg

heh or this:

http://tinyurl.com/27a8cr

INCONCEIVABLE!!

[Phobia]

I'm not a fan of MLM's. My wife has done the Mary Kay thing, some other energy/supplement thing, and now Arbonne. In every case (except for the most recent Arbonne), we've lost money. The only reason she's doing it again is because she's zero money out of pocket at this point.

But I've "known" Luz for almost a decade. He's done well for himself, obviously. Anytime somebody gets rich, it's usually at the expense of others. Why else are you paying thousands for some programming code to the richest man in the world.

While the MLM thing probably isn't for me, Luzap has obviously negotiated his way to personal wealth, more than most of us can say on this board. Trash him all you want, but he does have more authority on the matter than most of us.

[Bob Dole]

I'm not a fan of MLM's. My wife has done the Mary Kay thing, some other energy/supplement thing, and now Arbonne. In every case (except for the most recent Arbonne), we've lost money. The only reason she's doing it again is because she's zero money out of pocket at this point.

But I've "known" Luz for almost a decade. He's done well for himself, obviously. Anytime somebody gets rich, it's usually at the expense of others. Why else are you paying thousands for some programming code to the richest man in the world.

While the MLM thing probably isn't for me, Luzap has obviously negotiated his way to personal wealth, more than most of us can say on this board. Trash him all you want, but he does have more authority on the matter than most of us.

Come clean.

You got a $500 check for that post, didn't you?

[Phobia]

Come clean.

You got a $500 check for that post, didn't you?

No, I still haven't learned a thing about negotiation.

Luzap, call me or I'm gonna pile on.

[Brock]

While the MLM thing probably isn't for me, Luzap has obviously negotiated his way to personal wealth, more than most of us can say on this board. Trash him all you want, but he does have more authority on the matter than most of us.

Nothing personal, but bull ****ing shit.

[chagrin]

I'm not a fan of MLM's. My wife has done the Mary Kay thing, some other energy/supplement thing, and now Arbonne. In every case (except for the most recent Arbonne), we've lost money. The only reason she's doing it again is because she's zero money out of pocket at this point.

But I've "known" Luz for almost a decade. He's done well for himself, obviously. Anytime somebody gets rich, it's usually at the expense of others. Why else are you paying thousands for some programming code to the richest man in the world.

While the MLM thing probably isn't for me, Luzap has obviously negotiated his way to personal wealth, more than most of us can say on this board. Trash him all you want, but he does have more authority on the matter than most of us.


Dude, he kind of asked for it, no?

When I said at the expense of fools, "usually" they take advantage of otherwise poor people by playing on their will to get out of the struggle. That's what I meant, I have some knowledge on the subject and am not talking out of my ass.

[Luzap]

Interesting... Do I get my Shock Jock media credentials now?

Throw out a lot of arrogance, be a self proclamed expert, and bash people for their perfomance and people get fighting mad...

But isn't this exactly what the Carl Bashers do?

I'm not talking about the people that debate or disagree with Carl's decisions, I'm talking about those that spew vitrol like there's no tomorrow. We find many of these types in the media, the fan base, and even on this BB.

I don't buy into this 'I paid for my ticket so I'll say anything I want' garbage. That is true arrogance. There is no such thing as having 'rights' without responsibility.

As much as I admire Charles Barkley, a few years ago he said something totally assanine. He said that he wasn't a role model, never asked to be a role model, and that professional athletes shouldn't be held to that standard. What he missed (and what many of us are missing) is that EVERYONE is a role model. Our actions and words have conequences. They affect those around us (especially our kids) and over time, can change the perspective of a community, fan base, or even a nation.

You don't believe me? It's happened in KC. I'd wager that 90+% of the fans in the community (and on this BB) believe that Carl laid out a five year plan when he came to KC ~ no such thing ever happened. This is a total fabrication of certain media. When we allow it to become 'popular' to engage in disrespectful and uninformed bashing of things we care about we sow the seeds of our own destruction.

If a paying customer (that's never done your job before) started publically criticizing the way you do your job at work (how you do it, not the results), then progressed to criticizing you personaly, then continued long enough to to change the way your neighbors and community looked at you, you'd start wondering why there's an agenda against you and why more people didn't realize that there's nothing to it except an agenda.

This is what the KC media has done to Carl and many around him. Personaly, I think being a GM of a major sports team is probably one of the hardest jobs in America and his peers around the country generally feel he's done it very well.

Showing respect to others, even if you don't like them, is a sign of maturity. Perhaps each one of us should ask ourselves what kind of role model we're going to be for our kids, our family, and our community?

Luz
/end rant/...

[Phobia]

Nothing personal, but bull ****ing shit.

I don't take too much personal, Brock. Who would you rather listen to a lecture on negotiation from, me - the idiot who took a long ride on the road to nowhere with Nick Athan or Luzap - the dude who has amassed millions of dollars in personal wealth in the past decade? He has a right to feel a sense of authority on the matter, IMO.

[chagrin]

Interesting...Showing respect to others, even if you don't like them, is a sign of maturity.

no, respect is earned, you speak of common courtesy, that is supposed to be shown, you showed no courtesy or respect to anyone here with your rant.

[Brock]

I don't take too much personal, Brock. Who would you rather listen to a lecture on negotiation from, me - the idiot who took a long ride on the road to nowhere with Nick "The Erroneous One" Athan or Luzap - the dude who has amassed millions of dollars in personal wealth in the past decade? He has a right to feel a sense of authority on the matter, IMO.

You're buying into bullshit, just like you did with Athan. I've talked to scamway salesmen before too -I didn't want or need any lectures from them on what to think about my football team either.

[Phobia]

You're buying into bullshit, just like you did with Athan. I've talked to scamway salesmen before too -I didn't want or need any lectures from them on what to think about my football team either.
I'm not buying anything from Bill. I just think that he's more likely to understand the negotiation process in which Carl is currently involved than your average joker on a message board.

[Abba-Dabba]

He has a right to feel a sense of authority on the matter, IMO.

That being said, being a authority on something doesn't give you a license to be a arrogant prick about it, IMO.

[Brock]

I'm not buying anything from Bill. I just think that he's more likely to understand the negotiation process in which Carl is currently involved than your average joker on a message board.

Yeah, right. There's a ton of experience needed to understand that one party wants "A", and the other party wants "C", and they'll probably both settle for "B". That's a 100 level business course. I may not be a pyramid scheme mogul, but I think I can grasp the concept.

[KC Jones]

Anytime somebody gets rich, it's usually at the expense of others. Why else are you paying thousands for some programming code to the richest man in the world.


Apples and Oranges... Economics is not a zero-sum game.

Mary Kay has a legitimate product. They've been behind that product for decades. Hagger enterprises is selling to the 'employees' or excuse me their IBOs. The product changes from time to time, so they can keep the long term IBOs forced to re-train and buy new materials, classes, etc. I'm sure the guys at the top are making huge money, but I don't think it comes close to being a legitimate business. They're just milking people who are greedy and stupid. They aren't trying to sell the energy drink anyway, they are selling their programs to suckers. You need to buy their 'virtual office' software, buy a website (on their web site), buy training classes, buy business cards, buy brochures, pamphlets, etc.

Hey if you can get in at the top and make millions and still sleep well at night more power to you, but it's not a legitimate business venture in my opinion.

http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/

[The Bad Guy]

I'm not a fan of MLM's. My wife has done the Mary Kay thing, some other energy/supplement thing, and now Arbonne. In every case (except for the most recent Arbonne), we've lost money. The only reason she's doing it again is because she's zero money out of pocket at this point.

But I've "known" Luz for almost a decade. He's done well for himself, obviously. Anytime somebody gets rich, it's usually at the expense of others. Why else are you paying thousands for some programming code to the richest man in the world.

While the MLM thing probably isn't for me, Luzap has obviously negotiated his way to personal wealth, more than most of us can say on this board. Trash him all you want, but he does have more authority on the matter than most of us.

As with most things, it's with his delivery.

I don't care what he's negotiated. I know of a wealthy person on this board that would never, ever come on here pounding his chest like this douche.

I negotiated things all the time when I was freelance. I don't need his validation to know that Carl Peterson hasn't won a playoff game in 14 years - and that's what he should be based on.

[Luzap]

no, respect is earned, you speak of common courtesy, that is supposed to be shown, you showed no courtesy or respect to anyone here with your rant.

No Chagrin, I respectfully disagree...

Respect is freely given and then can be lost. You really don't want to live in a world where no one pays enough attention to you to even know if you've earned it or not.

Luz
...

[The Bad Guy]

I don't take too much personal, Brock. Who would you rather listen to a lecture on negotiation from, me - the idiot who took a long ride on the road to nowhere with Nick "The Erroneous One" Athan or Luzap - the dude who has amassed millions of dollars in personal wealth in the past decade? He has a right to feel a sense of authority on the matter, IMO.

Is he a football general manager? If he amassed his wealth that way, then he'd be an authority.

But he didn't.

No one on here claims to be an authority on being a general manager, but that doesn't mean that every one of us can't voice our displeasure with a team that we have had a vested interest in for a long, long time.

[Phobia]

I think he's trying to prove a point with the arrogant act. I've never known Bill to act like this, FWIW.

[Nzoner]

If a paying customer (that's never done your job before) started publically criticizing the way you do your job at work (how you do it, not the results), then progressed to criticizing you personaly, then continued long enough to to change the way your neighbors and community looked at you, you'd start wondering why there's an agenda against you and why more people didn't realize that there's nothing to it except an agenda.

This is what the KC media has done to Carl and many around him. Personaly, I think being a GM of a major sports team is probably one of the hardest jobs in America and his peers around the country generally feel he's done it very well.

Showing respect to others, even if you don't like them, is a sign of maturity. Perhaps each one of us should ask ourselves what kind of role model we're going to be for our kids, our family, and our community?

Luz
/end rant/...


Sounds like you've taken the Carl Spin 101 course yourself.I don't mean to come across like an ass but Carl gets paid damn well for what he does and with a position like his criticism comes with the territory.

As for a paying customer criticizing me in my line of work and how I do it,I better take notice of that customer's complaint or I'm not going to have a paying customer very long.

Lastly,I don't disrespect Carl as a businessman,he's more than proven he knows how to be a success at making money but in the end that's not all there is to it,you may have a good ride for awhile but let the so called success go to your head and eventually it will come around to bite you.I think the John Tait negotiations speaks volumes on that.

[BIG_DADDY]

I don't know whether I would consider myself a Carl Basher but you can't be happy witht he performance of the Chiefs as an organization under him. I have been in sales my whole life so negotiating goes with that whether we are talking fee's or liquidity structures ect. If this is about Green I understand why Carl is doing what he is doing there. I would rather Trent stay than give him up for a 6th. Give us something of equal value or **** off IMO.

[Bob Dole]

Perhaps each one of us should ask ourselves what kind of role model we're going to be for our kids...?

Bob Dole chose not to have kids.

It's also the Earth friendly choice!

[Easy 6]

KCJONES! IF YOU HAVE THE BOAWS TO DEBATE THAT!!!!!!!!!!

SPITBAOWS!!!!
http://2004.georgewbush.org/convention/images/zell-miller.jpg

... LMAO ...

~Luz
About to get run out on a rail...

[ct]

ROFL

Speaking of snake oil, I decided to do a little research on our brilliant Luzap's MLM and found these gems:





Sounds like he's really helping people (to put money in his pocket).

You sunk my battleship!! /Luzap

[Direckshun]

Interesting... Do I get my Shock Jock media credentials now?

Throw out a lot of arrogance, be a self proclamed expert, and bash people for their perfomance and people get fighting mad...

But isn't this exactly what the Carl Bashers do?

I'm not talking about the people that debate or disagree with Carl's decisions, I'm talking about those that spew vitrol like there's no tomorrow. We find many of these types in the media, the fan base, and even on this BB.

I don't buy into this 'I paid for my ticket so I'll say anything I want' garbage. That is true arrogance. There is no such thing as having 'rights' without responsibility.

As much as I admire Charles Barkley, a few years ago he said something totally assanine. He said that he wasn't a role model, never asked to be a role model, and that professional athletes shouldn't be held to that standard. What he missed (and what many of us are missing) is that EVERYONE is a role model. Our actions and words have conequences. They affect those around us (especially our kids) and over time, can change the perspective of a community, fan base, or even a nation.

You don't believe me? It's happened in KC. I'd wager that 90+% of the fans in the community (and on this BB) believe that Carl laid out a five year plan when he came to KC ~ no such thing ever happened. This is a total fabrication of certain media. When we allow it to become 'popular' to engage in disrespectful and uninformed bashing of things we care about we sow the seeds of our own destruction.

If a paying customer (that's never done your job before) started publically criticizing the way you do your job at work (how you do it, not the results), then progressed to criticizing you personaly, then continued long enough to to change the way your neighbors and community looked at you, you'd start wondering why there's an agenda against you and why more people didn't realize that there's nothing to it except an agenda.

This is what the KC media has done to Carl and many around him. Personaly, I think being a GM of a major sports team is probably one of the hardest jobs in America and his peers around the country generally feel he's done it very well.

Showing respect to others, even if you don't like them, is a sign of maturity. Perhaps each one of us should ask ourselves what kind of role model we're going to be for our kids, our family, and our community?
el oh el

According to MicroSoft Word, you just typed 438 words and absolutely zero of them serve as a defense for any move Carl has made over the past 20 years as GM of the Kansas City Chiefs.

What it was was a flowery non-sequitor about Loving Thy Team's GM and a strawman argument. Not to mention you're implicitly suggesting the First Amendment has the words "as long as you're responsible!" tagged on the end.

I don't know much about you, but Phil's vouching for you so you're probably just coming off like a condescending douche when in reality you're a pleasant, modest guy. But you came in here rattling your sword, claiming it was longer than everybody else's and therefore you're the most qualified swashbuckler. Not your finest moment, is what I'm saying.

[Phobia]

I don't know that I'm really vouching for him so much as pointing out he's never been like this before. However, I will note that tons of money has an affect on character. It's entirely possible that he has been affected. I just don't know him well enough to be certain.

I really think he's just taking on the Carl personna to prove the point that it's really easy to turn on a guy quickly when he comes off like he does, no matter how much success he's brought.

[Direckshun]

Well I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, and assume this is just an elaborate farce, designed to give guys like me something to do.

[chagrin]

No Chagrin, I respectfully disagree...

Respect is freely given and then can be lost. You really don't want to live in a world where no one pays enough attention to you to even know if you've earned it or not.

Luz
...

So we disagree, I live in the world as it is - I'm okay with that and I don't expect any respect be freely given to me and I don't freely give it out either.

[luv]

I don't know that I'm really vouching for him so much as pointing out he's never been like this before. However, I will note that tons of money has an affect on character. It's entirely possible that he has been affected. I just don't know him well enough to be certain.

I really think he's just taking on the Carl personna to prove the point that it's really easy to turn on a guy quickly when he comes off like he does, no matter how much success he's brought.
I can see how money could change people, but the type of person who belittles people would do so rich or poor.

I think he must just be taking on the Carl persona, like you said. That, or he's just having some fun. Either way, this is the type of argument (if people would get to the facts) that could be both entertaining and educational for lowly football peons, such as myself.

[Luzap]

I think most of you have figured out by now that the thread starter was intended for shock value ~ but like most things, there are elements of truth.

Almost all of the recent criticism being foisted on Carl in the Trent Green situation is about a process that most don't understand. They're piling on the anti Carl bandwagon because it's the popular thing to do, or they have an agenda.

Certain KC media definitely have an agenda against Carl and have propagandized many into their crusade.

It's amazing how easy it is to get some people to bash other people and things they don't understand. The anti network mareting posts here are probably a good example. Never mind that network marketing is taught in college, that most Fortune 500 Companies have network marketing divisions, or that you can buy stock in a number of network marketing companies on the exchanges ~ I'm sure several of you know more about it than anyone else.

This thread is not about network marketing, intelligence, wealth, or even so much about negotiation as it is some people's zeal in bashing others and/or the ease that they can be maipulated to someone elses agenda.

Are some of you mad at me because I made an arrogant post, or because it revealed your arrogant, bashing nature?

Luz
food for thought...

[rad]

It's funny this thread came up today, as I just picked my car up from the transmission shop where I was charged $731.00.

I got it down to $640.00. Thats only about 12 1/2% but still better than nothing.

4 days ago I negotiated a lower interest rate on my credit card.

2 months ago I got my cable provider to provide me with 6 months of extended programming at no charge.

That's some of the most recent stuff, but I consider myself to be a pretty solid negotiator.

[chagrin]

Well I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, and assume this is just an elaborate farce, designed to give guys like me something to do.

pussy :p




just kidding

[Frazod]

I don't know that I'm really vouching for him so much as pointing out he's never been like this before. However, I will note that tons of money has an affect on character. It's entirely possible that he has been affected. I just don't know him well enough to be certain.

I really think he's just taking on the Carl personna to prove the point that it's really easy to turn on a guy quickly when he comes off like he does, no matter how much success he's brought.
Oh yes he has. I've gone around with him a few times. But not for a long time, and I'm not looking to pile on now. He's made enough new friends on this thread.

One of my best friends is kind of like this. Very successful and very smart. And boy, can he be an arrogant, annoying, condescending jackass. In fact, he is more often than he isn't. He always seems to know just a little bit more about whatever the subject at hand is than me, his stuff is always a nicer and model up from mine, and he makes sure I know it, which gets a little old. But, I've learned to deal with it over the years, and I know that he means well and is always there when I need him. And he's certainly earned everything he's got. I also know he just doesn't realize what a gasbag he is; some people are just like that. (He also does all the work on my computers for free, so it's worthwhile not to piss him off :D ).

I get the feeling that Luz was venting a bit last night, but he's not the type to back down.

[luv]

Are some of you mad at me because I made an arrogant post, or because it revealed your arrogant, bashing nature?

Luz
food for thought...
Are you new here? :p

[ChiTown]

the dude who has amassed millions of dollars in personal wealth in the past decade? He has a right to feel a sense of authority on the matter, IMO.

Well, I'd disagree.

There's about a Grand Canyon sized difference between being a negotiator in a public arena like the NFL vs. a Pyramid Scheme salesman that swindles personal finances out of people who don't know better.

jmho

[Phobia]

Well, I'd disagree.

There's about a Grand Canyon sized difference between being a negotiator in a public arena like the NFL vs. a Pyramid Scheme salesman that swindles personal finances out of people who don't know better.

jmho
What's the difference in swindling $200 out of people for the emotional high a that hope and potential of a SuperBowl winning team can provide and swindling $200 out of somebody for the emotional high that hope and potential of personal wealth can provide? Nevermind that the odds of either are long - though admittedly better in the NFL where it's 1 in 32 but fans have zero control in that regard. At least you have some control over your destiny in an MLM.

[Direckshun]

I think most of you have figured out by now that the thread starter was intended for shock value ~ but like most things, there are elements of truth.

Almost all of the recent criticism being foisted on Carl in the Trent Green situation is about a process that most don't understand. They're piling on the anti Carl bandwagon because it's the popular thing to do, or they have an agenda.

Certain KC media definitely have an agenda against Carl and have propagandized many into their crusade.

It's amazing how easy it is to get some people to bash other people and things they don't understand. The anti network mareting posts here are probably a good example. Never mind that network marketing is taught in college, that most Fortune 500 Companies have network marketing divisions, or that you can buy stock in a number of network marketing companies on the exchanges ~ I'm sure several of you know more about it than anyone else.

This thread is not about network marketing, intelligence, wealth, or even so much about negotiation as it is some people's zeal in bashing others and/or the ease that they can be maipulated to someone elses agenda.

Are some of you mad at me because I made an arrogant post, or because it revealed your arrogant, bashing nature?
You know, I made sure I went to this (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=113843207) myspace page and played "Grass Beatbox" as I read this post, and it's a lot more entertaining.

[luv]

You know, I made sure I went to this (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=113843207) myspace page and played "Grass Beatbox" as I read this post, and it's a lot more entertaining.
Those guys don't look like the types that would make music like that.

[Direckshun]

Hey look, I've found footage of Luz at work.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/n9qVUUIDhWc"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/n9qVUUIDhWc" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[bogie]

I don't know Luzap. Based on this thread, I don't want to know Luzap. I already have a dick, I don't need another.

[KC Jones]

Hey look, I've found footage of Luz at work.



<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IweJ_7RgG5Q"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IweJ_7RgG5Q" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[Eleazar]

If you can dupe enough morons into paying $210 for four bottles of an energy drink to make a living, you deserve to be rich. Probably don't deserve to sleep at night, but you do deserve to be rich.

[bogie]

Here's what I understand. Carl played his hand too soon. He let Miami know that he doesn't want Green. Miami is using that against him. It's bad negotiating to play your hand too soon.

[Direckshun]

If you can dupe enough morons into paying $210 for four bottles of an energy drink to make a living, you deserve to be rich. Probably don't deserve to sleep at night, but you do deserve to be rich.
I applied for one of those jobs before without knowing it. It's sneaky how they get their employees, too.

I got a phone call... saying "Hi, we're from [company], and we've been referred to you as a great customer service guy."

Really, from who? "I don't have that information, sir. But we're looking for some people with good customer relations and sales experience. Would you be interested?"

Is it flexible? I'm a college student and I could use another job on the side. "Very flexible."

What's the job? "Meeting with clients and creating sales opportunities."

What am I selling? "I'm sorry?"

What product or service does the company sell. "Oh, you'll get a full explanation when you get here."

So I go. Suit and tie, as instructed. It's upstairs in this decent looking office building near midtown KC. As soon as I get there, there's this loud, happy music playing, and a lot of people talking and socializing. I'm college-aged, and I'm not noticeably younger or older than anybody in the room. Brunette comes over and grabs my arm and instigates conversation.

What is this? "Oh, we just like everybody to be comfortable before we get into it."

I know, but what are we doing? "We have a very organized way of letting you in, so I'll just let the presentation do it."

I tell her about myself, she laughs the whole time, sympathizing with my concerns over college and the job market. Assures me that she was in the same position (although I believe I'm older than her) and tells me that this job was the way out. I look around and notice they're having one-on-ones across the room just like the one I'm going through.

So we finally have a seat, and they launch into it. They speak at breakneck paces and they're talking about exponentials and a bunch of stuff that is barely understandable. They talk about how difficult the job market can be, and hell, how difficult jobs can be in general, and how glorious financial independence is, which is why they want to make this job easy. They go on to say that we're selling to a huge demographic of middle- and latter-aged folks, a booming economical treasure chest, to be sure.

They have a video they played, too, and included talking heads saying nothing about the product but instead things like "hooray for financial independence" and people dancing in palaces and shit. Only about 25 minutes into the presentation did anybody say anything about the product we were selling -- some fountain-of-youth creams and drinks that you usually see in late night infomercials.

The speaker says something about how people who care about how they look can try medication and "all its crazy side affects," or they can try our product and watch the results.

They then congratulate you, wish you the best, and hand you a pad and paper to essentially sign yourself over to the job. There were about five others with me, again, all the same age, and they started signing. I couldn't help but look at the display product and think everything was a crock of shit.

I put down the pad, I get up. Dead serious, two people politely step in my way.

"What's up?" This doesn't feel like my scene, I don't think I want to do this.

"Why not?" I just really, really don't. I'm gonna take off.

"Well--" says one guy, before the other one interrupts him and allows me to take off without any more hassle before, I guess, I threaten to make a scene and scare off the other applicants.

There are quite a few jobs out there like that that feed off of the bottom tier of college-aged folks. I might recommend the job to a high school graduate who didn't want to do college but was good with sales, but even then I think I'd just be like "go get a job at Borders, man."

[vailpass]

Intelligent, huh? Have you had a job where you have to show your intelligence? You have no right to question someone's intelligence until you have had a job that requires real intelligence. Explain yourself! I am SO intelligent I have the bank paying ME interest on my mortgage and my boss gave me a 200 percent raise and a night with his daughter. You are so stupid you probably have your retirement in mutual funds instead of earning REAL money through residual income from snake oil sales. Quit being a punk and tell us what you have done that is so intelligent.
ROFL

[seclark]

i have bargained and negotiated contracts w/my company. i have represented the union(gasp!) employees for 7contracts now.

i don't like the job. i don't like the work and preparation that it takes. i do it because i look around and honestly believe i am doing it for the sake of the entire unit and the company. other people can very easily use the job for their own agenda.

i feel to be able to do the job right, you have to be open minded enough to not just listen, but to put yourself in the other sides position to get a fair contract for all.

i don't talk about it very often, because so many others are anti-union. this is their right, and i never argue about the pros and cons of unions.

it's a lot easier to negotiate for ones self, than to negotiate for a group.

sec

[Eleazar]

I applied for one of those jobs before without knowing it. It's sneaky how they get their employees, too.

I got a phone call... saying "Hi, we're from [company], and we've been referred to you as a great customer service guy."...

There is a company like that advertising on a radio station I listen to - make money from home and anyone can do it, etc. I was totally skeptical, but I went to the website anyways and someone called me back from it. I just wanted to figure out what the model was, I wasn't going to get sucked in.

She was like, blah blah, "this is a great opportunity, it's easy" and I was basically like, cut the BS, what do I have to do to make money. She said that it required about $500 to get started and asked me if that would be a problem. I said that was no problem, I figured that I had to act interested to find out the details. She tried to sign me up right away but I said I wasn't going to write any checks until I knew what I was going to be selling. She sent me to their website to watch a video, it was the same thing you as what describe, some herbal pills or something from the mountains in Asia... snake oil. the deal was that I would have to buy this crap from the person who recruited me and sell it, or I could recruit more "distributors" to whom I could turn around and sell the stuff to, like some kind of chain selling. Of course nobody in their right mind is going to pay money for that garbage, which is no doubt super expensive, so I figure that you can only sell it to others that you recruit into the scam.

[siberian khatru]

I applied for one of those jobs before without knowing it. It's sneaky how they get their employees, too.

I got a phone call... saying "Hi, we're from [company], and we've been referred to you as a great customer service guy."

Really, from who? "I don't have that information, sir. But we're looking for some people with good customer relations and sales experience. Would you be interested?"

Is it flexible? I'm a college student and I could use another job on the side. "Very flexible."

What's the job? "Meeting with clients and creating sales opportunities."

What am I selling? "I'm sorry?"

What product or service does the company sell. "Oh, you'll get a full explanation when you get here."

So I go. Suit and tie, as instructed. It's upstairs in this decent looking office building near midtown KC. As soon as I get there, there's this loud, happy music playing, and a lot of people talking and socializing. I'm college-aged, and I'm not noticeably younger or older than anybody in the room. Brunette comes over and grabs my arm and instigates conversation.

What is this? "Oh, we just like everybody to be comfortable before we get into it."

I know, but what are we doing? "We have a very organized way of letting you in, so I'll just let the presentation do it."

I tell her about myself, she laughs the whole time, sympathizing with my concerns over college and the job market. Assures me that she was in the same position (although I believe I'm older than her) and tells me that this job was the way out. I look around and notice they're having one-on-ones across the room just like the one I'm going through.

So we finally have a seat, and they launch into it. They speak at breakneck paces and they're talking about exponentials and a bunch of stuff that is barely understandable. They talk about how difficult the job market can be, and hell, how difficult jobs can be in general, and how glorious financial independence is, which is why they want to make this job easy. They go on to say that we're selling to a huge demographic of middle- and latter-aged folks, a booming economical treasure chest, to be sure.

They have a video they played, too, and included talking heads saying nothing about the product but instead things like "hooray for financial independence" and people dancing in palaces and shit. Only about 25 minutes into the presentation did anybody say anything about the product we were selling -- some fountain-of-youth creams and drinks that you usually see in late night infomercials.

The speaker says something about how people who care about how they look can try medication and "all its crazy side affects," or they can try our product and watch the results.

They then congratulate you, wish you the best, and hand you a pad and paper to essentially sign yourself over to the job. There were about five others with me, again, all the same age, and they started signing. I couldn't help but look at the display product and think everything was a crock of shit.

I put down the pad, I get up. Dead serious, two people politely step in my way.

"What's up?" This doesn't feel like my scene, I don't think I want to do this.

"Why not?" I just really, really don't. I'm gonna take off.

"Well--" says one guy, before the other one interrupts him and allows me to take off without any more hassle before, I guess, I threaten to make a scene and scare off the other applicants.

There are quite a few jobs out there like that that feed off of the bottom tier of college-aged folks. I might recommend the job to a high school graduate who didn't want to do college but was good with sales, but even then I think I'd just be like "go get a job at Borders, man."

That's more depressing than the dead dog thread.

[ChiTown]

What's the difference in swindling $200 out of people for the emotional high a that hope and potential of a SuperBowl winning team can provide and swindling $200 out of somebody for the emotional high that hope and potential of personal wealth can provide? Nevermind that the odds of either are long - though admittedly better in the NFL where it's 1 in 32 but fans have zero control in that regard. At least you have some control over your destiny in an MLM.

I'm not sure wtf you are talking about. If you are talking about the Chiefs advertising their product as a source of entertainment to their fans and comparing that to a "money making venture" (read: pyramid scheme) that bilks people out of their hard earned money so they can make money, then I'm not sure I can reason with you. One is an "investment into their future" (BIG LOL), and the other is a debate as to how one utilizes their discretionary income.

It's like trying to arguing the similarities between a Buick and a pineapple.

[Nzoner]

I applied for one of those jobs before without knowing it. It's sneaky how they get their employees, too.




There's a fine line between true salespeople and con artists,the best I ever heard it put was like this

Love people and use money don't use people and love money.

Either one can make you a damn good living but only the first one will truly create great relationships that can last a lifetime.

[Fairplay]

I applied for one of those jobs before without knowing it. It's sneaky how they get their employees, too.




That job place sounds wierd man.

I bet it was a pyramid scheme type of business. I've been through something similar. I could see the game plan a mile a way. So i let them do their lengthy drawn out sales pitch. Politey decline, then they get all pissed.

[RJ]

If this is all about Peterson and the Green situation, I don't think that can really be called negotiating. Carl has his heels dug in and is waiting for a 4th round pick, from what I've read. If so, that's not a negotiation, that's a demand. NTTAWWT, I happen to agree with his stance. But negotiation it is not.

Also, I think Luz is sort of missing the definition in his thread starter. Negotiation implies a give and take, i.e., I'd like to buy your car but can't afford the $3000 you are asking. You agree to accept the $2000 I have now and then four $250 payments over the next four months. I'd say getting your car for $50 over invoice or not paying "sticker" for your kids clothes would fall in the category of haggling, or hondling as the older Jewish folks used to call it. The haggler usually gives up nothing on the front end but does lose in terms of service and other considerations on the back end.

Incidentally, it's never occurred to me to haggle over the price of my daughter's clothes, but that's another issue.

Maybe all of this is just semantics but I wanted to throw my one cents worth in.......I know it's supposed be my two cents, but no way am I paying retail! :)

[Phobia]

I'm not sure wtf you are talking about. If you are talking about the Chiefs advertising their product as a source of entertainment to their fans and comparing that to a "money making venture" (read: pyramid scheme) that bilks people out of their hard earned money so they can make money, then I'm not sure I can reason with you. One is an "investment into their future" (BIG LOL), and the other is a debate as to how one utilizes their discretionary income.

It's like trying to arguing the similarities between a Buick and a pineapple.

My submission is that the NFL is bilking fans in similar ways. I mean, if you were from backwoods Peru and not familiar with professional sports I'm guessing you'd feel the same way about the $200 game experience as you do about the snake oil. What an absolute ripoff....

[Direckshun]

If this is all about Peterson and the Green situation, I don't think that can really be called negotiating. Carl has his heels dug in and is waiting for a 4th round pick, from what I've read. If so, that's not a negotiation, that's a demand. NTTAWWT, I happen to agree with his stance. But negotiation it is not.

Also, I think Luz is sort of missing the definition in his thread starter. Negotiation implies a give and take, i.e., I'd like to buy your car but can't afford the $3000 you are asking. You agree to accept the $2000 I have now and then four $250 payments over the next four months. I'd say getting your car for $50 over invoice or not paying "sticker" for your kids clothes would fall in the category of haggling, or hondling as the older Jewish folks used to call it. The haggler usually gives up nothing on the front end but does lose in terms of service and other considerations on the back end.

Incidentally, it's never occurred to me to haggle over the price of my daughter's clothes, but that's another issue.

Maybe all of this is just semantics but I wanted to throw my one cents worth in.......I know it's supposed be my two cents, but no way am I paying retail! :)
:shake:

We're talking about snake oil now, man. You can't go all on-topic on us now.

[shaneo69]

Almost all of the recent criticism being foisted on Carl in the Trent Green situation is about a process that most don't understand.

I think most people here do understand the process that's going on. As Brock or someone else mentioned, it's not rocket science.

It's pretty much exactly what Tennessee did to McNair last year. They got a 4th round pick out of Baltimore. If Carl can do that, kudos to him. I just have a hard time believing that the Dolphins are as desperate as the Ravens were last year. The Ravens thought they were one player away from a Super Bowl. The Dolphins are nowhere near that level.

But to tell people here that they shouldn't be criticizing Carl because they aren't professional negotiators is asinine.

[Mr. Laz]

I don't know Luzap. Based on this thread, I don't want to know Luzap. I already have a dick, I don't need another.
:eek: wowser






ROFL

[trndobrd]

My submission is that the NFL is bilking fans in similar ways. I mean, if you were from backwoods Peru and not familiar with professional sports I'm guessing you'd feel the same way about the $200 game experience as you do about the snake oil. What an absolute ripoff....


I don't understand how the NFL is bilking fans. Every time you've gone to Arrowhead on game day, ticket in hand, there's been a game, right? The players you paid to see are out on the field engaging in a game of football. At the end of the day, that's all the Chiefs are claiming to provide, a few hours of entertainment.

"Bilking" is when you ask for money by promising something that is not delivered and usually has no intent of being delivered. Requiring a $200 to achieve 'financial independence' when 98% of the investors receive absolutely nothing is 'bilking'.

If you don't enjoy the games, don't go. If you don't feel you receive $200 worth of entertainment, spend your entertainment dollars elsewhere. But until the Chiefs start selling Superbowl tickets in July, they are not bilking anyone.

[RJ]

:shake:

We're talking about snake oil now, man. You can't go all on-topic on us now.



Sorry, I don't know what I was thinking.

[Bwana]

Numerous times.........

[Phobia]

I don't understand how the NFL is bilking fans. Every time you've gone to Arrowhead on game day, ticket in hand, there's been a game, right? The players you paid to see are out on the field engaging in a game of football. At the end of the day, that's all the Chiefs are claiming to provide, a few hours of entertainment.

"Bilking" is when you ask for money by promising something that is not delivered and usually has no intent of being delivered. Requiring a $200 to achieve 'financial independence' when 98% of the investors receive absolutely nothing is 'bilking'.

If you don't enjoy the games, don't go. If you don't feel you receive $200 worth of entertainment, spend your entertainment dollars elsewhere. But until the Chiefs start selling Superbowl tickets in July, they are not bilking anyone.

That's a fair argument. But all the MLM company promises is a product. They deliver the product. Does it work well? Who knows? Will your team win the SuperBowl? Who knows? The point I'm making is that it's all overpriced, unnecessary items. If either of these things dropped off the face of the Earth it would actually have very little impact on any of our lives.

[bogie]

That's a fair argument. But all the MLM company promises is a product. They deliver the product. Does it work well? Who knows? Will your team win the SuperBowl? Who knows? The point I'm making is that it's all overpriced, unnecessary items. If either of these things dropped off the face of the Earth it would actually have very little impact on any of our lives.

As sad as it sounds, if Chiefs football wasn't part of my life, it would have a negative impact.

[Bugeater]

If this is all about Peterson and the Green situation, I don't think that can really be called negotiating. Carl has his heels dug in and is waiting for a 4th round pick, from what I've read. If so, that's not a negotiation, that's a demand. NTTAWWT, I happen to agree with his stance. But negotiation it is not.

Also, I think Luz is sort of missing the definition in his thread starter. Negotiation implies a give and take, i.e., I'd like to buy your car but can't afford the $3000 you are asking. You agree to accept the $2000 I have now and then four $250 payments over the next four months. I'd say getting your car for $50 over invoice or not paying "sticker" for your kids clothes would fall in the category of haggling, or hondling as the older Jewish folks used to call it. The haggler usually gives up nothing on the front end but does lose in terms of service and other considerations on the back end.

Incidentally, it's never occurred to me to haggle over the price of my daughter's clothes, but that's another issue.

Maybe all of this is just semantics but I wanted to throw my one cents worth in.......I know it's supposed be my two cents, but no way am I paying retail! :)
I know a few people who want to haggle over every little ****ing thing they buy, and it's incredibly annoying and embarrassing to be around them when they pull that crap. I wish I understood what the hell makes them think they're so special that they don't have to pay as much as everyone else.

[Skip Towne]

That's a fair argument. But all the MLM company promises is a product. They deliver the product. Does it work well? Who knows? Will your team win the SuperBowl? Who knows? The point I'm making is that it's all overpriced, unnecessary items. If either of these things dropped off the face of the Earth it would actually have very little impact on any of our lives.
It wouldn't mine. I have been studying the Indians of this area of the 1860's. They were virtually on a perpetual camping trip. I'd like to live like they did for awhile.

[Phobia]

It wouldn't mine. I have been studying the Indians of this area of the 1860's. They were virtually on a perpetual camping trip. I'd like to live like they did for awhile.

Well, you've mastered the wasted and living off government subsidies portion of it.... now we just need to find you a better name and a 20'x20' tract of land for your wigwam.

[trndobrd]

It wouldn't mine. I have been studying the Indians of this area of the 1860's. They were virtually on a perpetual camping trip. I'd like to live like they did for awhile.


I hear the Gubment is giving away free blankets.

[HemiEd]

Well, you've mastered the wasted and living off government subsidies portion of it.... now we just need to find you a better name and a 20'x20' tract of land for your wigwam.

LMAO

[RJ]

I hear the Gubment is giving away free blankets.


Free goats if you move to Romania. I'm still negotiating with them.

[trndobrd]

Free goats if you move to Romania. I'm still negotiating with them.


ROFL

[RJ]

I know a few people who want to haggle over every little ****ing thing they buy, and it's incredibly annoying and embarrassing to be around them when they pull that crap. I wish I understood what the hell makes them think they're so special that they don't have to pay as much as everyone else.



Man, I know a few of those and I often have them for customers. It is indeed an embarrassment when it's a friend or relative.

If saving a few bucks by trying to haggle over everything they buy makes them smarter than me, so be it. Personally, I'd rather have my pride.

But, as I often tell customers.......Come on down to see us. Bring the wife, we'll dicker.

[htismaqe]

So the original thread starter was really a facade, intended to get a rise out of people to prove a point?

What kind of jerk does stuff like that?

:evil:

[KC Jones]

So the original thread starter was really a facade, intended to get a rise out of people to prove a point?

Unlikely, but after people started pointing out what an asshole he was he tried to claim that was the purpose.

[Cannibal]

In my book, you have the right to criticize anyone ~ including King Carl.

Luz
I may not always agree with you, but you've earned my respect...

God you're a queer... always have been in my book. What a fag.

[Mark M]

I convinced The Mrs. to marry me.

I win.

MM
~~:D

[BigMeatballDave]

Wow. A Luz appearance. I am having flashbacks of the Planet in the early days. The old Star BB, too.

[RJ]

God you're a queer... always have been in my book. What a fag.



Direct and to the point. I admire that.

[Phobia]

Direct and to the point. I admire that.
That's Cannibal for ya.

[The Franchise]

I got a $10 lap dance for $5.....does that count?

[RJ]

I got a $10 lap dance for $5.....does that count?



Depends. Was it a $6-$10 value you got for $5 or a $5 or less value that you got for $5?

[Phobia]

I got a $10 lap dance for $5.....does that count?

Was this in 1985 or was it in Mexico?

[The Franchise]

Was this in 1985 or was it in Mexico?


Tucson,AZ .....and she was kinda ugly....but it was dark.

Hey I didn't shit on your examples!

[The Franchise]

Depends. Was it a $6-$10 value you got for $5 or a $5 or less value that you got for $5?


$10 VIP....for $5.

[Phobia]

Tucson,AZ .....and she was kinda ugly....but it was dark.

Hey I didn't shit on your examples!

Tucson is in Mexico. Heh.

[luv]

Someone told me that the ugliest of those girls are usually the ones that give the best lap dances.

[Phobia]

Someone told me that the ugliest of those girls are usually the ones that give the best lap dances.

And make your legs fall asleep.

[The Franchise]

Someone told me that the ugliest of those girls are usually the ones that give the best lap dances.

This is true....but that doesn't really work out for the guy.

[luv]

This is true....but that doesn't really work out for the guy.
It's like fat girls with blow jobs. Just close your eyes, lean back, and enjoy!

[The Franchise]

It's like fat girls with blow jobs. Just close your eyes, lean back, and enjoy!


You can't do that when your legs are falling asleep.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Oh yes he has. I've gone around with him a few times. But not for a long time, and I'm not looking to pile on now. He's made enough new friends on this thread.

One of my best friends is kind of like this. Very successful and very smart. And boy, can he be an arrogant, annoying, condescending jackass. In fact, he is more often than he isn't. He always seems to know just a little bit more about whatever the subject at hand is than me, his stuff is always a nicer and model up from mine, and he makes sure I know it, which gets a little old. But, I've learned to deal with it over the years, and I know that he means well and is always there when I need him. And he's certainly earned everything he's got. I also know he just doesn't realize what a gasbag he is; some people are just like that. (He also does all the work on my computers for free, so it's worthwhile not to piss him off :D ).

I get the feeling that Luz was venting a bit last night, but he's not the type to back down.


I've got a friend just like this. Only he has never accomplished shit. A career underachiever with visions of grandeur. Used to be close to me like a brother, now he just knows more than anyone else about everything. Yet has nothing, holds his victim card high, and says "If only things had been different growing up, I would be King!!!!!" That is waaaaaaaaay more annoying than listening to someone say it who has at least accomplished something first.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

It's like fat girls with blow jobs. Just close your eyes, lean back, and enjoy!


This is true. Gawdamn, it, is, true.

[milkman]

You don't believe me? It's happened in KC. I'd wager that 90+% of the fans in the community (and on this BB) believe that Carl laid out a five year plan when he came to KC ~ no such thing ever happened. This is a total fabrication of certain media. When we allow it to become 'popular' to engage in disrespectful and uninformed bashing of things we care about we sow the seeds of our own destruction

You are correct.
Carl never did lay out a 5 year plan.

However, he has publicly stated more the once, most recently in the last couple of months, that his goal when he took over this team was to get this team to a SB.

He's had 18 years to achieve that goal, and he's failed to achieve it.

If that failure hasn't earned him the criticism he's received, then what will?

As for the bolded part, that is simply bullshit.

[RJ]

$10 VIP....for $5.



Ok, not bad. She was offering retail, you got it for about cost.

Still, I call that haggling. not negotiating.

For instance, if you'd upped the price to $20 but gotten some "satisfaction" out of the deal.......that's negotiating.

A good deal isn't always about the price
:)

[The Franchise]

Ok, not bad. She was offering retail, you got it for about cost.

Still, I call that haggling. not negotiating.

For instance, if you'd upped the price to $20 but gotten some "satisfaction" out of the deal.......that's negotiating.

A good deal isn't always about the price
:)


lol...well my friend would be a good negotiator.....

[htismaqe]

God you're a queer... always have been in my book. What a fag.

Where in the **** have you been?

[htismaqe]

Here's what I understand. Carl played his hand too soon. He let Miami know that he doesn't want Green. Miami is using that against him. It's bad negotiating to play your hand too soon.

No, he did not.

Carl never said anything about Green until after the draft, when he started saying that Green would be the starter.

If anything, HERM showed their hand. He was the one talking about wanting to get younger and stuff.

[BigMeatballDave]

It's like fat girls with blow jobs. Just close your eyes, lean back, and enjoy!OMG!
ROFL

[KC Jones]

No, he did not.

Carl never said anything about Green until after the draft, when he started saying that Green would be the starter.

If anything, HERM showed their hand. He was the one talking about wanting to get younger and stuff.

Personally, I don't fault CP for what's currently going on. Neither do I fault Herm, he tipped his hand to Green and that's about it. I think he was trying to do the stand up thing for Green by letting him know he wasn't going to be handed the starting job and that he wanted to find a younger QB. Green is the one who decided to only look at Miami, and tip everyone off that he is leaving for Miami. If Miami doesn't want to give appropriate reimbursement for Green, then Green and Miami can wait til the end of training camp when he will be cut and be a free agent.

Not much more to it than Green acting up cause he can't go to Miami today.

[chagrin]

So the original thread starter was really a facade, intended to get a rise out of people to prove a point?



Well what was the point?

That he's made money through the world of MLM?
That he's been here longer than many of the other folks here?
That he several times posted today that "repsect should be feely given" only later to post that someone had to earn his respect to bash king Carl?
That he is as hypocritical as Logical?





~chagrin~ tired of the continued bullshit

[milkman]

Well what was the point?

That he's made money through the world of MLM?
That he's been here longer than many of the other folks here?
That he several times posted today that "repsect should be feely given" only later to post that someone had to earn his respect to bash king Carl?
That he is as hypocritical as Logical?





~chagrin~ tired of the continued bullshit

The point was to prove he could talk out of his ass while shitting at the same time.

[Mosbonian]

So the original thread starter was really a facade, intended to get a rise out of people to prove a point?

What kind of jerk does stuff like that?

:evil:

Unless I am reading the point of your post incorrectly, that would be most everyone on this board at least once in the ChiefsPlanet life....some more often than others.

mmaddog
*******

[Mosbonian]

I do find rather amusing that some people are calling him arrogant while not knowing him.....and also fail to look back at their own past posts.

Mirrors are a damning thing....

mmaddog
*******

[Iowanian]

a cannibal siting. Bigfoot does still lurk in the shadows.

[convict1983]

I was in Tijuana a couple of years ago and I successfully negotiated a hooker to give me a bj for 5 bucks when it was originally 15 bucks.
Hell, I should have Carl's job.

[keg in kc]

I was in Tijuana a couple of years ago and I successfully negotiated a hooker to give me a bj for 5 bucks when it was originally 15 bucks.
Hell, I should have Carl's job.Did you have her leave in her dentures or not?

[convict1983]

Did you have her leave in her dentures or not?

She was like a 15 yr old Mexican chick.