Dolphins up offer

[Carlota69]

Sorry if this is a repost...didnt see it so....

DOLPHINS
Miami tweaks bid for QB Green
BY BARRY JACKSON
bjackson@MiamiHerald.com

Brian Bahr / Getty Images
The Kansas City Chiefs and Miami Dolphins have yet to reach an agreement on a trade for quarterback Trent Green.The Dolphins recently modified their trade offer for Kansas City Chiefs quarterback Trent Green, his agent, Jim Steiner, said Thursday morning. And although the Chiefs didn't immediately accept, Steiner said he continues to believe Green will end up with the Dolphins.

''I think we will get a deal done,'' Steiner said. ``There have been a lot of conversations.''

But Steiner said he has no idea when Green will become a Dolphin or whether it will be in time for the team's final minicamp June 8-10.

According to Steiner, the Dolphins offered a conditional sixth-round pick that would become a fifth-rounder if Green meets certain undisclosed conditions. But the Chiefs have asked for a fourth-round pick.

Several media reports have suggested the Atlanta Falcons might pursue Green because of the uncertain status of Michael Vick, who has been investigated for dog fighting. But Steiner said he has not heard from the Falcons or any team other than the Dolphins.

Steiner has not revealed if Green will report to the Chiefs' training camp if his status hasn't been resolved by late July.

Steiner said Green's $7.2 million salary would not become guaranteed until the Chiefs cut down to their 53-man roster the weekend before the regular-season opener.

Could the Chiefs actually hold onto Green until then?

''It could go to that point,'' Steiner said. ``I wish I had that crystal ball.''

Although it's difficult to envision the Chiefs keeping Green at his current salary, Steiner said the team has not addressed that issue with him.

The Chiefs recently told Green he will be given a fair chance to win the starting job against Brodie Croyle and Damon Huard.

But Steiner said, ``It would be very, very difficult to convince Trent he would be given a fair opportunity to win a starting job based on what's been said publicly and privately.''

Steiner said Chiefs coach Herman Edwards previously said that anyone who beats out Croyle ``would have to do it by a wide margin.''

[StcChief]

Take the conditional 5th and move on Carl.

[Reerun_KC]

Get it done Carl....

[Carlota69]

Take the conditional 5th and move on Carl.

That was my first thought. Just Do eeeeaaaattt!!!!!

[crazycoffey]

sit on him just a bit longer......

:D

[Direckshun]

I heard the condition was that Trent has to throw for a billion gillion yards and then poop an entire bag of blow which he will then ingest on ESPN with Dick Vermeil standing next to him, crying.

...but I think Carl should not accept.

[keg in kc]

Probably not enough.

My guess is the reply was "make it a 5th, conditional to a 4th, or don't bother calling again".

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Trent Greens retarted and both teams know it. Nobody really wants Green!

[ct]

Tell them to add an additional conditional to the 4th, and we got a deal.

6th round pick, unconditional
5th round pick, if Trent plays majority of offensive plays in 8 games.
4th round pick, if Trent plays majority of offensive plays in 14 games.

So if TG is the starting QB for 1/2 the season, it's a 5th, but if TG is the starting QB for the full season (minus a couple minor injury games out, only takes 1 fluke followthrough smacking a DLineman's helmet) then it's a 4th. If he rides pine or only plays a few games, it's a 6th.

[Mr. Laz]

i see no real reason to take any offer yet.

there are too many things that could happen that would send his value skyrocketing.


if Green starts crying too much then send him home.

[Wile_E_Coyote]

The fins are waiting for an offer on Culpepper. Green needs to keep his deal with GutterPro in KC

[Chiefaholic]

Make it a guaranteed 5th, conditional 4th if he's a starter for all 16 games, and conditional 3rd if he's a Pro-Bowl QB. This scenario gives their rookie time to learn the system from a classy veteran and puts more fans in the seats.

[Reerun_KC]

Trent Greens retarted and both teams know it. Nobody really wants Green!


I think you better give your donkey some water, He isnt looking to good....

[Micjones]

Do the deal.

This is silly.

[Direckshun]

Do the deal.

This is silly.
Well I know how to win negotiations with you, then.

Make a low offer and just wait you out.

[ct]

Well I know how to win negotiations with you, then.

Make a low offer and just wait you out.

You know nothing, I OWN YOU!! /Luzap

[eazyb81]

Well I know how to win negotiations with you, then.

Make a low offer and just wait you out.

ROFL

[Chiefaholic]

Do the deal.

This is silly.

I'll give you 60% the assessed value of your home. In a month, I may consided upping the ante to 65% if the market appears to show a possible increase in value.

Do the deal....This is silly.

[Frankie]

Tell them to add an additional conditional to the 4th, and we got a deal.

6th round pick, unconditional
5th round pick, if Trent plays majority of offensive plays in 8 games.
4th round pick, if Trent plays majority of offensive plays in 14 games.
What if green takes them to the Superbowl? then we should at least get the 2nd we were asking for in the first place. I think something covering that remote eventuality needs to be included in the conditions.

[jynni]

Hmmm...I think they should wait till someone's QB gets hurt in training camp. It's bound to happen...it seems to every year...hell...it could be Croyle that gets hurt and if that happens, we'd be very happy that Green is still hanging around.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

What if green takes them to the Superbowl? then we should at least get the 2nd we were asking for in the first place. I think something covering that remote eventuality needs to be included in the conditions.

Yeah. They are supposed to be major contenders next year!ROFL

[Mr. Laz]

Hmmm...I think they should wait till someone's QB gets hurt in training camp. It's bound to happen...it seems to every year...hell...it could be Croyle that gets hurt and if that happens, we'd be very happy that Green is still hanging around.
yep

huard or croyle might get hurt

huard or croyle might suck

some other team without a viable backup might lose their starter to injury or dog attack.


the only thing that could really happen to screw us is if Green gets hurt.

[Frankie]

Yeah. They are supposed to be major contenders next year!ROFL
I didn't say that. But strange things have happened. Who could have thought that the Rams would win the SB after 3 poor years. What does it hurt to include an additional sentence in the conditions?

[Tribal Warfare]

I'd wait to see what the Falcons do with the Vick situation

[OnTheWarpath15]

Someone with a decent understanding of conditional picks answer this question please:

Couldn't the Dolphins easily manipulate whether Trent meets the conditions of the better pick?

If he's nearing certain "requirements" couldn't they pull him, play Beck or Lemon and give us the guaranteed pick?

It's not like they are going to be in a playoff race or anything, it wouldn't hurt to get their young QB's (Beck especially) some playing time late in the year, screwing us in the process.

I can just see Carl giving in, taking a conditional pick, and Trent coming up with some mysterious injury in Week 11, 1 game and 200 yards short of a better pick......

[Mr. Laz]

Someone with a decent understanding of conditional picks answer this question please:

Couldn't the Dolphins easily manipulate whether Trent meets the conditions of the better pick?

If he's nearing certain "requirements" couldn't they pull him, play Beck or Lemon and give us the guaranteed pick?

It's not like they are going to be in a playoff race or anything, it wouldn't hurt to get their young QB's (Beck especially) some playing time late in the year, screwing us in the process.

I can just see Carl giving in, taking a conditional pick, and Trent coming up with some mysterious injury in Week 11, 1 game and 200 yards short of a better pick......
yes, they could manipulate the conditions ..... some teams have been accused of doing just that.

but if they are too obvious they run the risk of losing the ability to do any conditional pick in the future.

why would any team trust them if they have already shown they will do anything to screw up a deal.


if Trent gets hurt they may keep him out an extra game to screw the conditions ..... but i doubt they just blatantly pull him.

[Direckshun]

I'd think any contract at this level would have to have stipulations like "barring any obvious manipulation of statistics of or by the player in question."

But I've never held an NFL contract in my hand, so I don't know for sure.

[HemiEd]

Wait it out, they are blinking. Once he is gone, he is gone, no "do overs."

[Direckshun]

See, I agree with HemiEd.

We've come this far.

Give us a 5th, you bastards! Or, if you're going to set conditions, they better include a 4th in there.

[bringbackmarty]

About a month ago, before trint started whining and crying like a little bitch, I would have been more apt to take the deal.

Now, let him rot on the bench until Grody Boil and Lamon Peeyouard get hurt.

Seriously, Carl needs to keep waiting. if he does he will get his price, maybe even better than a fourth.
What are we risking by holding onto him until final cuts? Nothing. It's a business. Who cares about a sixth or even a fifth. At this point Carl has a lot to gain by rolling the dice, and very little to lose.

Trent could be in Miami already if he had shut his mouth and been the team player he was purported to be the last six seasons. This whole sour grapes business pissed Carl off, and Miami might have offered something closer to Carl's demand if Trent and company hadn't negotiated a contract and indicated that they prefer to play in Miami. Some team player Green is. He basically backed Carl into a corner and said "You have to trade me". Nobody likes to be told what to do, and like it or not Trent Owes K.C. and Carl a huge debt of gratitude for the money he made here, and the loyalty we showed him after last season's injury.

[tk13]

I think I'd hold out for at least a 5th/conditional 4th. That way, we trade him for less than Steve McNair since he's older, but if he does succeed like McNair did with the Ravens, we essentially get similar value with a 4th. I've thought all along that a 4th rounder was good value here, if we can get that on the condition he plays well, I'd probably take it.

[ct]

What if green takes them to the Superbowl? then we should at least get the 2nd we were asking for in the first place. I think something covering that remote eventuality needs to be included in the conditions.

IMO, you're wasting your time with those conditions. All CP is saying is if they are trading for a starting QB, he's worth a 4th. So to come in and now ask for the wildest scenario conditional clauses will kill the deal at this point. jmo

[htismaqe]

Take the conditional 5th and move on Carl.

It's not a conditional 5th. It's a conditional 6th. We're gonna need more than that.

[the Talking Can]

wow, I just noticed that...the 6th is condition as well, meaning they aren't actually offering anything...

breathtaking...what an insult


cue wackenpuss

[Manila-Chief]

What if green takes them to the Superbowl? then we should at least get the 2nd we were asking for in the first place. I think something covering that remote eventuality needs to be included in the conditions.

I agree ... I like the idea of a 6th. unconditional with the conditional going even to a 1st. if they win the S.B. with him as the QB. No, it is not likely to happen but strange things do happen. Why would the fins not want to go with a deal like that. I'd certainly be willing to give up a 1st. round pick if a player came in and helped us win the big prize. If they win a championship it doesn't matter how old, how many years he has left, or any of that stuff.

Frankie is correct ... on asking for more conditional picks the better he plays.

[Slick32]

Steiner said Chiefs coach Herman Edwards previously said that anyone who beats out Croyle ``would have to do it by a wide margin.''

If true that means that the competition for the position was a lie. Why should we believe anything Steiner or Herman says?

[ROYC75]

Probably not enough.

My guess is the reply was "make it a 5th, conditional to a 4th, or don't bother calling again".


Agree ........ screw Miami. They just want to low ball the offer for a starting OB in the NFL.

[Mr. Laz]

If true that means that the competition for the position was a lie. Why should we believe anything Steiner or Herman says?
you shouldn't

the reality is you have to judge by actions as much as what they say.


agents by their very nature tend to be misleading

Herman Edwards has only been here a year and we have already seen signs that he's full of crap.

Carl peterson is a liar of legendary status ... he'll say whatever he needs to say to benefit himself at that time.

[hawkchief]

I think the odds of another team needing a "Trent Green" before the season are woth wating on a better offer than a 6/5. That's a bogus offer from the 'Fins and until it's a 4/3, I say hold your cards.

[Mile High Mania]

"barring any obvious manipulation of statistics of or by the player in question."


I am not sure how you'd get two teams to decide on what the terms of conditional would be... it's a chance you take, but if Green is doing what they think he can do... they won't hold him back from reaching milestones.

[el borracho]

"the Dolphins offered a conditional sixth-round pick that would become a fifth-rounder if Green meets certain undisclosed conditions"

Not even close, IMO. Maybe they can have Printers for that but not Green.

[kcxiv]

Hold it down Carl, once Vick get charged, and i beleive he will. They could possibly get what they want out of this. No reason to take it right now. Hold firm Carl.

[Sanka]

HOLD OUT FOR A FIRST!

[bkkcoh]

Hold it down Carl, once Vick get charged, and i beleive he will. They could possibly get what they want out of this. No reason to take it right now. Hold firm Carl.


They were saying on ESPN radio that it is going to take a long time to build a case and any evidence against Vick. I would tend to agree with this. Unless they can actually obtain video proof that show Vick actively participating in the illegal activity, it is going to be difficult.

I heard today that there are some of Vick's endorsements were already pulling away from him or going to start doing so.

[OnTheWarpath15]

They were saying on ESPN radio that it is going to take a long time to build a case and any evidence against Vick. I would tend to agree with this. Unless they can actually obtain video proof that show Vick actively participating in the illegal activity, it is going to be difficult.

I heard today that there are some of Vick's endorsements were already pulling away from him or going to start doing so.


Keep in mind, Goodell has already set the precedent that he doesn't have to wait for a player to be charged before issuing a suspension.

Pacman Jones still hasn't been charged to my knowledge.

Nike and AirTran airlines have pulled their sponsorship.

[Valiant]

Keep in mind, Goodell has already set the precedent that he doesn't have to wait for a player to be charged before issuing a suspension.

Pacman Jones still hasn't been charged to my knowledge.

Nike and AirTran airlines have pulled their sponsorship.


Suspending Pacman for stuff he knowingly did and has not been charged with yet and suspending Vick for stuff there is no proof of other then hearsay is two totally different things...

Then add the fact that Vick is a high-profile QB that fills the seats compared to an average CB with constant troubles...

[OnTheWarpath15]

Suspending Pacman for stuff he knowingly did and has not been charged with yet and suspending Vick for stuff there is no proof of other then hearsay is two totally different things...

Then add the fact that Vick is a high-profile QB that fills the seats compared to an average CB with constant troubles...

I guess we'll see.

The way Goodell has started (Jones, Henry, Alcohol ban) makes me thing that if the prosecuting attorney decides he has enough evidence to send it to a Grand Jury, Goodell has enough info to make a decision.

And personally, I wouldn't be shocked to see him make an example of a high profile player. Send a message.

JMO.

[Cannon1987]

Yeah, very adjust points

[bkkcoh]

Keep in mind, Goodell has already set the precedent that he doesn't have to wait for a player to be charged before issuing a suspension.

Pacman Jones still hasn't been charged to my knowledge.

Nike and AirTran airlines have pulled their sponsorship.


They mentioned that and said that pacman has been mentioned numerous times in shady and iffy conduct.

Vick's water bottle at the airport was evidently nothing.

[Fish]

Keep in mind, Goodell has already set the precedent that he doesn't have to wait for a player to be charged before issuing a suspension.

Pacman Jones still hasn't been charged to my knowledge.

Nike and AirTran airlines have pulled their sponsorship.

No matter what happens..... that cost him a lot of money.....

[milkman]

Herman Edwards has only been here a year and we have already seen signs that he's full of crap.

Signs?

If you mean like giant Las Vegas neon signs, then yeah.

[Buehler445]

I think it is important to get the best deal for him. Peterson needs to communicate to everyone that Green is here until there is a good deal offered. If I were Peterson, I would get my big white butt on the phone with the Falcons and play up Trent's squeaky clean image. They may pay the 7 mil and the picks. If he felt compelled to do Green right, he could drag his feet for a few days and give Miami the chance to one-up the offer.

I haven't heard anything official that the Falcons are in for Green, but if I were Arthur Blank, Vick would have his pink slip.

[Bugeater]

I think it is important to get the best deal for him. Peterson needs to communicate to everyone that Green is here until there is a good deal offered. If I were Peterson, I would get my big white butt on the phone with the Falcons and play up Trent's squeaky clean image. They may pay the 7 mil and the picks. If he felt compelled to do Green right, he could drag his feet for a few days and give Miami the chance to one-up the offer.

I haven't heard anything official that the Falcons are in for Green, but if I were Arthur Blank, Vick would have his pink slip.
Not if you want to sell tickets.

[pikesome]

Not if you want to sell tickets.

Blank ought to be looking around just in case. Who knows how this dog-fighting thing is going to play out but it could turn real sour quick. From watching media coverage you have to wonder if Falcon fans are getting tired of Vick yet. Every time I hear the question come up it doesn't seem to addressed. Just more of the "Vick is working hard and rededicating himself" line.

[Buehler445]

Not if you want to sell tickets.

Thats what I hear, but I can't speculate on that. I have no idea how much fans like him, but I would think they would get tired of the circus. And he did give them the finger last year after all. Either way, they are going to be in some serious doo doo if he is found guilty of all this. They have given him plenty of time to develop and clean up his act. He hasn't done either. I would take the risk and find some other way to market my product. Make Dunn the QB, it would be about the same:) JK.

[BIG K]

[QUOTE=Carlota69]Sorry if this is a repost...didnt see it so....

DOLPHINS
Miami tweaks bid for QB Green
BY BARRY JACKSON
bjackson@MiamiHerald.com




The Chiefs recently told Green he will be given a fair chance to win the starting job against Brodie Croyle and Damon Huard.


I am OK with a year or two of retooling...

[Direckshun]

According to nearly all accounts from fan appreciation day, Croyle is outplaying Trent anyway.

[pikesome]

According to nearly all accounts from fan appreciation day, Croyle is outplaying Trent anyway.

Maybe Trent's worried the Chiefs will want to keep him?

[Bugeater]

Thats what I hear, but I can't speculate on that. I have no idea how much fans like him, but I would think they would get tired of the circus. And he did give them the finger last year after all. Either way, they are going to be in some serious doo doo if he is found guilty of all this. They have given him plenty of time to develop and clean up his act. He hasn't done either. I would take the risk and find some other way to market my product. Make Dunn the QB, it would be about the same:) JK.
Fans don't show up to games to see guys that they "like", they show up to see guys who they think can help their team win. And yes, if he's proved to be involved in the dogfighting ring, or even if Goodell finds him guilty by association, then the point is moot and Blank is going to have to explore any options. My only concern is that it won't happen soon enough.

[pikesome]

Fans don't show up to games to see guys that they "like", they show up to see guys who they think can help their team win. And yes, if he's proved to be involved in the dogfighting ring, or even if Goodell finds him guilty by association, then the point is moot and Blank is going to have to explore any options. My only concern is that it won't happen soon enough.

If Vick's play doesn't step up he might find himself the victim of that stupidly large contract. It's got to be back-loaded like a MFer. I'm sure they'll get to a point where they won't pay him even if he puts butts in seats.

[Direckshun]

I say they drop Vick, assume Green for the entire salary (he's still going to be what, 10 mill cheaper?), and the Chiefs will take the 4th and draft a stud LT that'll guide us to the Super Bowl five years in a row and I'll win so much money that I'll get to sleep with five of my favorite porn stars.

Go Chiefs.

[pikesome]

I say they drop Vick, assume Green for the entire salary (he's still going to be what, 10 mill cheaper?), and the Chiefs will take the 4th and draft a stud LT that'll guide us to the Super Bowl five years in a row and I'll win so much money that I'll get to sleep with five of my favorite porn stars.

Go Chiefs.

A stud LT with a 4th? That's crazy talk. :)

[Frankie]

A stud LT with a 4th? That's crazy talk. :)
As if sleeping with 5 of his favorite porn stars is not!

[Frankie]

.....and I'll win so much money that I'll get to sleep with five of my favorite porn stars.

Go Chiefs.
That Holmes guy is dead. Who are the other four?