Is God Forsaking Humankind?

[Logical]

Perhaps God has given up on humankind and is in the process of eliminating us through Global Warming and Natural Disasters.

He afterall is a vengeful, jealous and spiteful God according to the Bible.:D

[crazycoffey]

STFU, not this crap again.....


not falling for it.

[kcfanXIII]

no thats the old testiment god. the new testiment god will ultimately forgive us.

[Phobia]

He's merely punishing you, Jim. Get with the program so the rest of us can be spared.

[007]

Did somebody say something?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

God is a 7 year old burning ants with a magnifying glass.

[crazycoffey]

God is a 7 year old burning ants with a magnifying glass.


I smite thee oh smite full one.

[KCBOSS1]

God didn't design the global warming and natural disaster process. He put the world into the hands of men in the beginning. A point too often missed.

Sin has much more profound affect than ticking God off. Death didn't just affect men, but everything that men is a part of. It is a perpetuating process, but will be resolved eventually.

[Fish]

........somehow it's a woman's fault...........

[KCBOSS1]

Oh yeah....well that too.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

........somehow it's a woman's fault...........


I keep telling mine that I want my rib back.

[KCBOSS1]

She's like, "Where do you want it?", right?

[Logical]

God didn't design the global warming and natural disaster process. He put the world into the hands of men in the beginning. A point too often missed.

Sin has much more profound affect than ticking God off. Death didn't just affect men, but everything that men is a part of. It is a perpetuating process, but will be resolved eventually.

So he is not the all knowing and all powerful God the Bible says he is?

[crazycoffey]

........somehow it's a woman's fault...........


Of course, now if we could only get them to admit it!



reminds me of an old joke, probably been heard by all, but since I just lost my last Hold'em hand, I'll shoot it out anyway.


God made the world and saw that it was good, then he made Adam and again saw that it was all good. He called to Adam one day and said;

"Adam, I see you here enjoying the world and all the animals I gave you, but I think I have something else for you to enjoy."

Adam, "really, I can't wait, you are a wonderful creator"

"Oh, I've been saving this as the 'best for last' creation. I have in mind for you a mate, a partner to enjoy this earth with. I call her 'woman' and she is magnificant. She is like you but different, captivating to look at and a complete joy to be with. You'll lose time in her arms and long for her respect. She'll be more than just a companion, she'll be a care taker for you and grant every wish and desire of your heart. She'll be everything and anything you could ever want."

Adam "Sounds awesome, Lord. Where is she?"

"well, there is a catch, she'll cost you an arm and a leg"

Adam, "Mmmmm, what can I get for a rib, my Lord?"

[RealSNR]

Jim, I'm sure when you were hanging out with Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson 250 years ago, this deism stuff was all the rage, but it doesn't really have a place anymore.

[Logical]

Jim, I'm sure when you were hanging out with Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson 250 years ago, this deism stuff was all the rage, but it doesn't really have a place anymore.
Deists, grow old, we never die.:evil:

[crazycoffey]

So he is not the all knowing and all powerful God the Bible says he is?


going against post number two.....



He is all knowing and all powerful, but one thing that is sooooo hard to comprehend, he is of a place/realm/existance that we know nothing of, in all our glory here on earth - not a one of us know what it is like to die and exist in another, non-physical, form.

[SLAG]

Perhaps God has given up on humankind and is in the process of eliminating us through Global Warming and Natural Disasters.

He afterall is a vengeful, jealous and spiteful God according to the Bible.:D
Vlad-

I would really put it the other way around,

HUMANKIND has given up On God

When this happens how could anyone expect for that God to be loving

(instert Reap Sow Cliche)

God is a vengeful God when he needs to be but it is brought where it belongs.

[KCBOSS1]

So he is not the all knowing and all powerful God the Bible says he is?

No, He is exactly what the Bible says He is. Just doesn't manipulate everything the way that church folk has interpreted Him to. He will call mankind to answer for what was entrusted to us as I understand it. When I lost my mom and dad too young and some other crap that didn't wash out with the patent answers, I started studying and pursuing for myself. All of the religious jargon just made me more frustrated. The whole "everything happens for a reason" just didn't cut it for me. I always felt that it was a lot more interactive.

I think that it takes insight from God to rightly interpret the Bible. That's my experience. It says in Psalms, "The heavens are the heavens of the Lord, but the earth He has given into the hands of the sons of men." paraphrase. Anyway, some of these things really helped me.

[Vegas_Dave]

God didn't design the global warming and natural disaster process. He put the world into the hands of men in the beginning. A point too often missed.

Sin has much more profound affect than ticking God off. Death didn't just affect men, but everything that men is a part of. It is a perpetuating process, but will be resolved eventually.

Actually, this world is currently in the hands of Satan. John 12:31 makes reference to Satan here as the "Ruler of this world". This is also why Satan's 2nd attempt of temptation of Jesus was also truly a temptation.

Satan offered Jesus command over the world right there and then if He bowed down and worshiped Satan. For this to truly be a tempation, Satan would need to be in charge over this world and have the authority to make good on this "deal" in order for it to be a true temptation to Jesus.



Sorry. In reference to the original question. I believe that God is simply foresaking the Chiefs. We are doomed to get soooo close, yet always be sooooo far from our goals.

[crazycoffey]

No, He is exactly what the Bible says He is. Just doesn't manipulate everything the way that church folk has interpreted Him to. He will call mankind to answer for what was entrusted to us as I understand it. When I lost my mom and dad too young and some other crap that didn't wash out with the patent answers, I started studying and pursuing for myself. All of the religious jargon just made me more frustrated. The whole "everything happens for a reason" just didn't cut it for me. I always felt that it was a lot more interactive.

I think that it takes insight from God to rightly interpret the Bible. That's my experience. It says in Psalms, "The heavens are the heavens of the Lord, but the earth He has given into the hands of the sons of men." paraphrase. Anyway, some of these things really helped me.Truth.


I grew up in a religious house with one parent and visited another parent that was quite a bit less than religious. In my teens I was curious with the "what if's" as in what if there is no God, what if Christianity is the wrong religion. So I went out to study other religions to find a better understanding. Do I know everything? Abso freakin lutely not. I still have some issues that I am dealing with, but when I really think about the basics of life and our existance, I just can't believe it's all accidental. And when you study all the religions with an open heart, the truth comes out.

No words here on this forum or a TV evangelist or even your local preacher will ever give you all the answers. It is up to the individual to seek the truth. Logical, you have doubts, explore the answers for your questions. Look at science, look at all religions, look at history for you are not the first to question God, feed the hunger of your soul with knowledge and not from asking a loaded question in here to stir the pot.

[ClevelandBronco]

Perhaps God has given up on humankind and is in the process of eliminating us through Global Warming and Natural Disasters.

He afterall is a vengeful, jealous and spiteful God according to the Bible.:D

Can I get an antifreeze cocktail for my friend here?

[pikesome]

The short version of how I see it:

God is like a parent with many different children of every demeanor. He said and did what he thinks is best to get us on our way but some lessons you have to learn the hard way. Stepping in and poofing away the trouble we've brought on ourselves doesn't help anyone in the end. And while he loves each and every one of us we are also part of a greater whole, some changes can't be made in a generation or two, people suffer and die so that those who come behind might learn and live better.

So when it seems God has forsaken us maybe it's just like your dad telling you not to drink too much then you go out and hit a kegger. The best teacher is the pain and suffering you've caused yourself by disregarding the advise the first time. Maybe you'll listen afterwords.

[Fish]

Didn't you watch Bruce Almighty? sheesh......

[KCBOSS1]

Actually, this world is currently in the hands of Satan. John 12:31 makes reference to Satan here as the "Ruler of this world". This is also why Satan's 2nd attempt of temptation of Jesus was also truly a temptation.

Satan offered Jesus command over the world right there and then if He bowed down and worshiped Satan. For this to truly be a tempation, Satan would need to be in charge over this world and have the authority to make good on this "deal" in order for it to be a true temptation to Jesus.



Sorry. In reference to the original question. I believe that God is simply foresaking the Chiefs. We are doomed to get soooo close, yet always be sooooo far from our goals.

In the Bible, the world and the earth are two different things. The terms used for world usually speaks of a fallen system which is controlled by Satan. It was handed over to him by Adam in the garden. But, the earth is still the Lord's that was placed under the dominion of man. God designed the earth to be managed by human agency. All spirits need human agency for influence. That's why Jesus said that 'when a demon goes out of a man, he searches through dry places looking for a 'house' and finding none, he returns back to his house and finding it swept and garnished, re-enters it' and actually makes things worse.

This is by design. Jesus re-purchased the thing legally, coming as a man. After resurrection, He says all power is given unto me in heaven and earth, go therefore. Our spiritual transformation process is, however, more complicated. However, the lease seems to be running out for us and we've trashed the place.

BUT YES, GOD MAY HAVE FORSAKEN THE CHIEFS.....aaaahhhhh!

[ClevelandBronco]

Perhaps God has given up on humankind and is in the process of eliminating us through Global Warming and Natural Disasters.

He afterall is a vengeful, jealous and spiteful God according to the Bible.:D

The Father will turn His back on us; The Son will make Him show His face in kindness; the Spirit will make us rejoice and be one.

Then there are those who don't believe what I just said.

I think your understanding of the Bible is either shallow or you're just trying to make a point. I wish you'd get to it rather than flirt around the edges of it.

I'm betting that you're just trying to make a point, because you usually don't enter a fight unarmed. Your initial post was seemingly an indefensible statement. What are you driving at?

[Logical]

The Father will turn His back on us; The Son will make Him show His face in kindness; the Spirit will make us rejoice and be one.

Then there are those who don't believe what I just said.

I think your understanding of the Bible is either shallow or you're just trying to make a point. I wish you'd get to it rather than flirt around the edges of it.

I'm betting that you're just trying to make a point, because you usually don't enter a fight unarmed. Your initial post was seemingly an indefensible statement. What are you driving at?

I like to make people think, to challenge their own preconceived notions. I am as properly guessed by SNR a Deist and as such like to get people to look at things from a new perspective for most of them. Natural law is powerful and should not be ignored.

[Pitt Gorilla]

HUMANKIND has given up On GodI have no idea what that means.

[pikesome]

I have no idea what that means.

Maybe that it's part of the problem that Hilton, Lohan, or Spears gets way more coverage than some like Mother Theresa if she were still alive.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Maybe that it's part of the problem that Hilton, Lohan, or Spears gets way more coverage than some like Mother Theresa if she were still alive.That means that humankind has given up on God? Come on.

[ClevelandBronco]

God hasn't "given up on" me yet, Logical. He hasn't "given up on" my wife or my kids. I have some friends that He hasn't "given up on" yet.

But then again, maybe your imaginings are the center of the universe.

I've got your theme song ready: "You're Living in Your Own Private Ptolemy."

It's all about you, Logical. You are the center.

[pikesome]

That means that humankind has given up on God? Come on.

Not in so many words but it is shameful that the wrong kind of people get made in to celebrities and those really worth celebrating toil in obscurity and/or ridicule.

[ClevelandBronco]

those really worth celebrating toil in obscurity and/or ridicule.

Yes, sir. The vast majority serve man and God anonymously. The small minority are exposed for the frauds they are.That's been the history of the faith for centuries.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Not in so many words but it is shameful that the wrong kind of people get made in to celebrities and those really worth celebrating toil in obscurity and/or ridicule.I agree completely, but I don't think it provides any evidence that mankind has "given up" on God.

[pikesome]

I agree completely, but I don't think it provides any evidence that mankind has "given up" on God.

Maybe in a less literal fashion than "giving up on God". Less weight is also given to religion in general, with that comes both good and bad. Religion ties people together regardless of the denomination and the weakening of those bonds, and others like them, are partly responsible for a lot of the things we don't like. People spend less time and thought on what others think about them and that's not always good.

[Logical]

God hasn't "given up on" me yet, Logical. He hasn't "given up on" my wife or my kids. I have some friends that He hasn't "given up on" yet.

But then again, maybe your imaginings are the center of the universe.

I've got your theme song ready: "You're Living in Your Own Private Ptolemy."

It's all about you, Logical. You are the center.

Why do you assume that I am the center, nature is the center

The first Law of nature is that every man ought to endeavour peace, as far as he has hope of obtaining it; and when he cannot obtain it, that he may seek and use all helps and advantages of war.
The second Law of nature is that a man be willing, when others are so too, as far forth, as for peace, and defence of himself he shall think it necessary, to lay down this right to all things; and be contented with so much liberty against other men, as he would allow other men against himself.
The third Law is that men perform their covenants made. In this law of nature consisteth the fountain and original of justice... when a covenant is made, then to break it is unjust and the definition of injustice is no other than the not performance of covenant. And whatsoever is not unjust is just.
The fourth Law is that a man which receiveth benefit from another of mere grace, endeavour that he which giveth it, have no reasonable cause to repent him of his good will. Breach of this law is called ingratitude.
The fifth Law is complaisance: that every man strive to accommodate himself to the rest. The observers of this law may be called sociable; the contrary, stubborn, insociable, forward, intractable.
The sixth Law is that upon caution of the future time, a man ought to pardon the offences past of them that repenting, desire it.
The seventh Law is that in revenges, men look not at the greatness of the evil past, but the greatness of the good to follow.
The eighth Law is that no man by deed, word, countenance, or gesture, declare hatred or contempt of another. The breach of which law is commonly called contumely.
The ninth Law is that every man acknowledge another for his equal by nature. The breach of this precept is pride.

[Pitt Gorilla]

People spend less time and thought on what others think about them and that's not always good.
This one has me puzzled. I think it's much better to be comfortable with who you are in your relationship with God than it is to keep up appearances.

[Imon Yourside]

Rest assured that it is all scheduled to happen, and when man figures it out is when the apocalypse will be upon us. Sound frustrating? remember everyone in the world spoke the same language until we screwed up again and built the tower of babel. Face it mankind is an utter failure, and the quicker we all realise it the more LOGICAL we can reason. Yes our flesh is useless.

[greg63]

Perhaps God has given up on humankind and is in the process of eliminating us through Global Warming and Natural Disasters.

He afterall is a vengeful, jealous and spiteful God according to the Bible.:D

Are you typing?

[Bootlegged]

Another week another Logical/jIZ political/God post in the main forum..

[King_Chief_Fan]

God hasn't given up. He has already won. Through Jesus, death and resurrection the Kingdom is established. People continue to have a choice to join or not. God is clear about his expectations. However, he doesn't force anyone to comply. You choose.

[Micjones]

Don't you just love it when people impose natural laws on a supernatural God?

[Reerun_KC]

Wouldnt Believer had a hayday with this thread......

Very insightful thread, nice job guys...

Seriously though, Humankind has given up on God you see it all over the newspapers, TV, etc....

Mankind will crush itself under the weight of its own sins....

[Splat420]

God doesn't give up on people people give up on God which is really sad I feel sorry for people that make a joke out of the subject.

[jidar]

heh...
sweet

[Iowanian]

Could you try any harder to be an instigating asshole Denim...I mean MeMylogical?

[Ultra Peanut]

God is a 7 year old burning ants with a magnifying glass.Shovel.

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Seriously though, Humankind has given up on God you see it all over the newspapers, TV, etc....

Mankind will crush itself under the weight of its own sins....LMAO

God doesn't give up on people people give up on God which is really sad I feel sorry for people that make a joke out of the subject.So God gives up on people and walks into a bar...

[sedated]

remember everyone in the world spoke the same language until we screwed up again and built the tower of babel.

fiction is fun.

[Ultra Peanut]

fiction is fun.That's not fiction! I saw this at a MUSEUM:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=70177&stc=1

[KC Kings]

Truth.


I grew up in a religious house with one parent and visited another parent that was quite a bit less than religious. In my teens I was curious with the "what if's" as in what if there is no God, what if Christianity is the wrong religion. So I went out to study other religions to find a better understanding. Do I know everything? Abso freakin lutely not. I still have some issues that I am dealing with, but when I really think about the basics of life and our existance, I just can't believe it's all accidental. And when you study all the religions with an open heart, the truth comes out.

No words here on this forum or a TV evangelist or even your local preacher will ever give you all the answers. It is up to the individual to seek the truth. Logical, you have doubts, explore the answers for your questions. Look at science, look at all religions, look at history for you are not the first to question God, feed the hunger of your soul with knowledge and not from asking a loaded question in here to stir the pot.

You wasted a lot of time writing those 2 paragraphs. Logical will see that he hasn't rattled your chain and skip to the next post.

[Eleazar]

That's not fiction! I saw this at a MUSEUM:


What's so kooky about that?

Sure, you might not agree with it, but it's just a mainline religious idea.

[pikesome]

This one has me puzzled. I think it's much better to be comfortable with who you are in your relationship with God than it is to keep up appearances.

Kinda. It's a double edged sword like most things. Public pressure, in many ways, helps keep us together. There are many who take it to extremes but the idea that others' perceptions of you act as a sort of collective "conscience" helps people get along in their day-to-day activities. I'm not saying that public shunning and the like are the best way but when less weight is given to other's perceptions it requires the individual to rely on their own internal conscience and not everyone can do that.

[Redrum_69]

Its because all you sinners out there had random pre-marital sex.

[Reerun_KC]

Its because all you sinners out there had random pre-marital sex.


At least we have had sex....

[Vegas_Dave]

Its because all you sinners out there had random pre-marital sex.

Mysteries of religion solved by Redrum_69. The source for all things good.

[Redrum_69]

At least we have had sex....


Losing your virginity to your hand doesnt count

[Reerun_KC]

Losing your virginity to your hand doesnt count

:cuss:

[crazycoffey]

You wasted a lot of time writing those 2 paragraphs. Logical will see that he hasn't rattled your chain and skip to the next post.



I noticed that last night, but the good news is - it didn't take alot of time to write those two paragraphs, and I wasn't doing anything else at the time anyway.

[Reerun_KC]

I noticed that last night, but the good news is - it didn't take alot of time to write those two paragraphs, and I wasn't doing anything else at the time anyway.

I am impressed that you can type while half hammered?

[Redrum_69]

Mysteries of religion solved by Redrum_69. The source for all things good.


I'm going to hell as well. I just have to keep my end of the deal and never get a divorce.



If you break a promise with God...thats about the worst thing you could do.

[crazycoffey]

I am impressed that you can type while half hammered?



Hell, that's when I hit my pinnacle.

[greg63]

Perhaps God has given up on humankind and is in the process of eliminating us through Global Warming and Natural Disasters...

Ok I'll give a serious response to this; the global warming you speak of which in turn directly affects/creates the natural disasters come about solely through mans, not God's, devices.

[Simply Red]

Are you typing?
ROFL

[greg63]

ROFL

LMAO

[Sully]

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Always makes me laugh...

"Maybe he's forgotten you!"

[Mr. Kotter]

Three words, man:

Free will, baby.


Being accountable for ourselves is a bitch, ain't it? :)

[Iowanian]

I don't know about forsaking mankind memylogical....be he deForeskinned the Jews.

[greg63]

Three words, man:

Free will, baby.


Being accountable for ourselves is a bitch, ain't it? :)

Exactly! :clap:

[Logical]

Another week another Logical/jIZ political/God post in the main forum..There is no prohibition for God posts in the main forum.

[Donger]

He is all knowing and all powerful, but one thing that is sooooo hard to comprehend, he is of a place/realm/existance that we know nothing of, in all our glory here on earth - not a one of us know what it is like to die and exist in another, non-physical, form.

How cool is it that we know that "He is all knowing and all powerful," but "He is of a place/realm/existance that we know nothing of"?

[Logical]

Truth.


I grew up in a religious house with one parent and visited another parent that was quite a bit less than religious. In my teens I was curious with the "what if's" as in what if there is no God, what if Christianity is the wrong religion. So I went out to study other religions to find a better understanding. Do I know everything? Abso freakin lutely not. I still have some issues that I am dealing with, but when I really think about the basics of life and our existance, I just can't believe it's all accidental. And when you study all the religions with an open heart, the truth comes out.

No words here on this forum or a TV evangelist or even your local preacher will ever give you all the answers. It is up to the individual to seek the truth. Logical, you have doubts, explore the answers for your questions. Look at science, look at all religions, look at history for you are not the first to question God, feed the hunger of your soul with knowledge and not from asking a loaded question in here to stir the pot.
Nothing wrong with this, if believing in the tooth fairy makes you feel better when you lose a tooth there is nothing wrong with that either. It is a personal choice. Same concept where you believe there is an easter bunny so that you can better stand sitting through all those Easter services. Enjoy your faith in your personal choice of fictions it is all many have.

[pikesome]

Nothing wrong with this, if believing in the tooth fairy makes you feel better when you lose a tooth there is nothing wrong with that either. It is a personal choice. Same concept where you believe there is an easter bunny so that you can better stand sitting through all those Easter services. Enjoy your faith in your personal choice of fictions it is all many have.

You know that the Easter Bunny and Easter services don't have anything to do with each other, right?

[Mr. Laz]

no thats the old testiment god. the new testiment god will ultimately forgive us.
so which is right?


and since when is it ok for all the religious men to going around editing the content of the bible?

[Ultra Peanut]

Three words, man:

Free will, baby.


Being accountable for ourselves is a bitch, ain't it? :)Mother Goose created us in her image, and left us free will and a box of mysteries to sort through.

[sedated]

You know that the Easter Bunny and Easter services don't have anything to do with each other, right?

well, they kinda do.

easter.

no?

[sedated]

Christianity has a built-in defense system: anything that questions a belief, no matter how logical the argument is, is the work of Satan by the very fact that it makes you question a belief. It's a very interesting defense mechanism and the only way to get by it -- and believe me, I was raised Southern Baptist -- is to take massive amounts of mushrooms, sit in a field, and just go, "Show me."

Childbirth is no more a miracle then eating food and a turd coming out of your ass.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are.

I love the Pope, I love seeing him in his Pope-Mobile, his three feet of bullet proof plexi-glass. That's faith in action folks! You know he's got God on his side.


-Bill Hicks

[Ultra Peanut]

Christianity has a built-in defense system: anything that questions a belief, no matter how logical the argument is, is the work of Satan by the very fact that it makes you question a belief. It's a very interesting defense mechanism and the only way to get by it -- and believe me, I was raised Southern Baptist -- is to take massive amounts of mushrooms, sit in a field, and just go, "Show me."

Childbirth is no more a miracle then eating food and a turd coming out of your ass.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are.

I love the Pope, I love seeing him in his Pope-Mobile, his three feet of bullet proof plexi-glass. That's faith in action folks! You know he's got God on his side.


-Bill Hicks

http://i15.tinypic.com/661084x.jpg

[Donger]

Christianity has a built-in defense system: anything that questions a belief, no matter how logical the argument is, is the work of Satan by the very fact that it makes you question a belief. It's a very interesting defense mechanism and the only way to get by it -- and believe me, I was raised Southern Baptist -- is to take massive amounts of mushrooms, sit in a field, and just go, "Show me."

Childbirth is no more a miracle then eating food and a turd coming out of your ass.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are.

I love the Pope, I love seeing him in his Pope-Mobile, his three feet of bullet proof plexi-glass. That's faith in action folks! You know he's got God on his side.


-Bill Hicks

And how is Mr. Hicks today?

[crazycoffey]

Nothing wrong with this, if believing in the tooth fairy makes you feel better when you lose a tooth there is nothing wrong with that either. It is a personal choice. Same concept where you believe there is an easter bunny so that you can better stand sitting through all those Easter services. Enjoy your faith in your personal choice of fictions it is all many have.


Your ignorance is very perceptive. You belittle my point. I said the same thing, in a more respectful manner. I am not the one pushing a religious perspective on you. I said, you asked a loaded question on the internet, but if you have real questions, you should try to get them answered for real, and by using all available resources at your disposal. The truth will come out, if your truth is different than mine, so be it.

I still do not see what your purpose with these threads are. You say it is to "make us think", but who put you in charge of that? I didn't hire you for any consulting purpose, I don't need your approval for my actions/thoughts/beliefs. Why do you need mine?

[crazycoffey]

BTW, I do believe in only one God, a creator, that we are not cosmic accidents. The thing that is hard to share about it is, I truely believe this and that some of us call this creator Jesus, God, Allah, Yahweh, Brahma, etc.

[Donger]

BTW, I do believe in only one God, a creator, that we are not cosmic accidents. The thing that is hard to share about it is, I truely believe this and that some of us call this creator Jesus, God, Allah, Yahweh, Brahma, etc.

Was Jesus not the Son of God?

[crazycoffey]

Was Jesus not the Son of God?


I was trying to paint a very broad religious stroke with that last post.

Yes I believe he was.




What does the historian have to say about Jesus?

[Donger]

I was trying to paint a very broad religious stroke with that last post.

Yes I believe he was.

So, you believe in two gods, not one?

What does the historian have to say about Jesus?

The skeptic in me thinks that Jesus of Nazareth did indeed exist. He may well have been the son of God. However, I think it more likely that he was just a revolutionary of human origin, and that his preachings had more to do with removing the Romans than with saving mankind.

But, since I can't prove anything, I keep an open mind about it. Much more so than when I was younger.

[Ultra Peanut]

Was Jesus not the Son of God?This is the Son of Man:

[Frosty]

So, you believe in two gods, not one?

Boy, you just had to open that can of worms, didn't you? :shake:

[Donger]

Boy, you just had to open that can of worms, didn't you? :shake:

Well, it's one of the pesky aspects of Christianity that has always irked me. Many Christians say that they believe in one God, and then talk about Jesus.

Well, which is it?

[LOCOChief]

Well, it's one of the pesky aspects of Christianity that has always irked me. Many Christians say that they believe in one God, and then talk about Jesus.

Well, which is it?

father, son, holy ghost = 1 or ONE

But I personally would rather that you remain irked and memylogical walow in its current state of confusion for eternity.

[Donger]

father, son, holy ghost = 1 or ONE

Isn't that called "the Holy Trinity"?

But I personally would rather that you remain irked and memylogical walow in its current state of confusion for eternity.

Gee, thanks. Very Christian of you.

[crazycoffey]

So, you believe in two gods, not one?



The skeptic in me thinks that Jesus of Nazareth did indeed exist. He may well have been the son of God. However, I think it more likely that he was just a revolutionary of human origin, and that his preachings had more to do with removing the Romans than with saving mankind.

But, since I can't prove anything, I keep an open mind about it. Much more so than when I was younger.



Looking at Jesus' life objectively I would think he'd be a very interesting study, The Jewish organized religion can say he existed but wasn't a form of God, just a person with delusions of grandeur.

Many of his followers believe him to be the actual son of God, or God incarnate in human form. And while they believed him, many of them had actions on earth that contradicted this belief until after Jesus died.

The Koran (or Quran) says he was born of a virgin and was a healing prophet of Allah but not an actual god, so he will be in charge of a lesser heaven because of it.

The Romans crucified him and now the head of the organized Catholic religion is in Rome.

Chrisianty has more denominations/forms than any other religion, been the most persecuted through out time and is still one of the largest religions on earth, even with more criticism and perversions of it's primary message, than any other religion.

Remember, and bear with me if you don't believe, but if there is a God, and Jesus was his human form to share a message of love, then you would also have to believe Lucifer the morning star, the Devil, Satan, etc. also exists. The devil was beside God when humanity was born, he has seen the blueprints to your soul and he knows the buttons you need to have pushed to feel "alone" in this world, empty inside, hollow and needing of superficial love, drug euphoria, money lust, etc.

[Donger]

Looking at Jesus' life objectively I would think he'd be a very interesting study, The Jewish organized religion can say he existed but wasn't a form of God, just a person with delusions of grandeur.

Many of his followers believe him to be the actual son of God, or God incarnate in human form. And while they believed him, many of them had actions on earth that contradicted this belief until after Jesus died.

The Koran (or Quran) says he was born of a virgin and was a healing prophet of Allah but not an actual god, so he will be in charge of a lesser heaven because of it.

The Romans crucified him and now the head of the organized Catholic religion is in Rome.

Chrisianty has more denominations/forms than any other religion, been the most persecuted through out time and is still one of the largest religions on earth, even with more criticism and perversions of it's primary message, than any other religion.

Remember, and bear with me if you don't believe, but if there is a God, and Jesus was his human form to share a message of love, then you would also have to believe Lucifer the morning star, the Devil, Satan, etc. also exists. The devil was beside God when humanity was born, he has seen the blueprints to your soul and he knows the buttons you need to have pushed to feel "alone" in this world, empty inside, hollow and needing of superficial love, drug euphoria, money lust, etc.

Well, thanks for depressing me.

[Logical]

You know that the Easter Bunny and Easter services don't have anything to do with each other, right?ROFL

[crazycoffey]

Isn't that called "the Holy Trinity"?


I know what you are referring to, I understand what you say irks you, yes it's called the holy trinity, my understanding is it is three sides of the same God, but again you are crossing into an area that is impossible to describe or making questions that are impossible to give real answers to, because that is where faith and reality collide.

I can tell you what I believe and why, just as you can to me, or Logical can on his threads, but the reality is, we don't really know, the answer has eluded mankind, because if there is a spiritual world, we aren't in it and do not know how it will be experienced.

[Logical]

Your ignorance is very perceptive. You belittle my point. I said the same thing, in a more respectful manner. I am not the one pushing a religious perspective on you. I said, you asked a loaded question on the internet, but if you have real questions, you should try to get them answered for real, and by using all available resources at your disposal. The truth will come out, if your truth is different than mine, so be it.

I still do not see what your purpose with these threads are. You say it is to "make us think", but who put you in charge of that? I didn't hire you for any consulting purpose, I don't need your approval for my actions/thoughts/beliefs. Why do you need mine?

If you don't want to think and you know my motives you are either stupid for opening the thread or lying when you say you don't want to think. It is Satan at work I tell you.

[crazycoffey]

If you don't want to think and you know my motives you are either stupid for opening the thread or lying when you say you don't want to think. It is Satan at work I tell you.


:Poke:

[Frosty]

Well, it's one of the pesky aspects of Christianity that has always irked me. Many Christians say that they believe in one God, and then talk about Jesus.

Well, which is it?

Well, I know that I am in the minority but I believe scripture when it says that there is one god - God, the Father and that Jesus is "the firstborn of creation". He is called the "begotten" son. Begotten implies more than just simple creation. It implies a transferring of characteristics or a cleaving. The Holy Spirit is what scripture says it - the spirit of God; the part of God that dwells in us. Not a separate "person".

Watching churchians try to explain the trinity is almost as entertaining as watching them try to reconcile a sovereign God with "free will".
:)

[Donger]

I know what you are referring to, I understand what you say irks you, yes it's called the holy trinity, my understanding is it is three sides of the same God, but again you are crossing into an area that is impossible to describe or making questions that are impossible to give real answers to, because that is where faith and reality collide.

I can tell you what I believe and why, just as you can to me, or Logical can on his threads, but the reality is, we don't really know, the answer has eluded mankind, because if there is a spiritual world, we aren't in it and do not know how it will be experienced.

How many times does Jesus refer to God as "Father" in the NT?

[BigCatDaddy]

Good luck with discussing God with Logical. I made that mistake and the next thing I know he is comparing the Apostles to Charlie Sheen and Rosie O'Donnell. I kind of figured it was a lost cause then.

[Donger]

Well, I know that I am in the minority but I believe scripture when it says that there is one god - God, the Father and that Jesus is "the firstborn of creation". He is called the "begotten" son. Begotten implies more than just simple creation. It implies a transferring of characteristics or a cleaving. The Holy Spirit is what scripture says it - the spirit of God; the part of God that dwells in us. Not a separate "person".

Watching churchians try to explain the trinity is almost as entertaining as watching them try to reconcile a sovereign God with "free will".
:)

I remember being a young boy and going to school in England, where (at least then) bible study was required. When we got to The Gospels, I asked my teacher, "Why are there four Gospels? Couldn't they decide or something?"

That got me caned.

[Logical]

...
Remember, and bear with me if you don't believe, but if there is a God, and Jesus was his human form to share a message of love, then you would also have to believe Lucifer the morning star, the Devil, Satan, etc. also exists. The devil was beside God when humanity was born, he has seen the blueprints to your soul and he knows the buttons you need to have pushed to feel "alone" in this world, empty inside, hollow and needing of superficial love, drug euphoria, money lust, etc.

Since you don't feel the need to think what exactly brought this on? By the way if you question why I need your thoughts, why do you feel compelled to provide them?

[ClevelandBronco]

Watching churchians try to explain the trinity is almost as entertaining as watching them try to reconcile a sovereign God with "free will".

“God, his Word, and his Wisdom.” — Theophilus of Antioch

[Frosty]

I remember being a young boy and going to school in England, where (at least then) bible study was required. When we got to The Gospels, I asked my teacher, "Why are there four Gospels? Couldn't they decide or something?"

LMAO

[cdcox]

For those interested, here is the Christian Church's confession regarding the Holy Trinity:

http://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html

[LOCOChief]

Isn't that called "the Holy Trinity"?



Gee, thanks. Very Christian of you.

It's a joke Donger, actually I would prefer to not question the things that help people get by, i just felt the way you posed the question was sort of cocky, no offense intended though.

[crazycoffey]

How many times does Jesus refer to God as "Father" in the NT?



Several times, so what?

Best answer I can give, Physical Form of God (best described to us as "son") praying to the Spirtual Form of God (best described to us as "father")

questions that are impossible to give real answers to, because that is where faith and reality collide.

[Logical]

Good luck with discussing God with Logical. I made that mistake and the next thing I know he is comparing the Apostles to Charlie Sheen and Rosie O'Donnell. I kind of figured it was a lost cause then.

Actually you have to be confusing me with someone else, I have never compared the apostles with Charlie Sheen and Rosie O'Donnell. That would be absurd, I know that Charlie Sheen and Rosie 0'Donnell exist, something I cannot say about the nice 12 characters from a great work of moral fiction known as the Bible.

[Logical]

Several times, so what?

Best answer I can give, Physical Form of God (best described to us as "son") praying to the Spirtual Form of God (best described to us as "father")The spiritual form of God is the Holy Spirit not God.

[Donger]

It's a joke Donger, actually I would prefer to not question the things that help people get by, i just felt the way you posed the question was sort of cocky, no offense intended though.

Me? Cocky?

[crazycoffey]

Since you don't feel the need to think what exactly brought this on? By the way if you question why I need your thoughts, why do you feel compelled to provide them?


Because you perverted my statement and passed it off as saying something I wasn't, you are fishing for a discussion/fight/argument but I already know the outcome is pointless at this point, because you are not asking to gather information, you are trying to bait us.

oh, and I'm tired of talking about Trent Green? :shrug:


Good luck with discussing God with Logical. I made that mistake and the next thing I know he is comparing the Apostles to Charlie Sheen and Rosie O'Donnell. I kind of figured it was a lost cause then.

Yeah, I've known that all along, that's why he doesn't get under my skin....

[crazycoffey]

The spiritual form of God is the Holy Spirit not God.



:rolleyes:

[Logical]

Could you try any harder to be an instigating asshole Denim...I mean MeMylogical?

Who is the instigator?

[Frosty]

I know that Charlie Sheen and Rosie 0'Donnell exist

Really? Have you ever seen them up close in person? Or are you you just taking it on faith that the images that you see on the screen are actually those people?

[Logical]

:rolleyes:

Why the rolleyes, I thought you believed in the holy trinity?

[crazycoffey]

I am the instigator


fyp

[Frosty]

The spiritual form of God is the Holy Spirit not God.

The Holy Spirit = God (God is called a spirit in scripture). How they are perceived by us is the only difference.

[Logical]

Really? Have you ever seen them up close in person? Or are you you just taking it on faith that the images that you see on the screen are actually those people?

Good point, they must be Gods they appear before me out of thin air on a little box.

[Logical]

fyp
It takes two to tango.

[crazycoffey]

Why the rolleyes, I thought you believed in the holy trinity?


because you are still poking.

I do believe, do you?


I was trying to point out that we can't explain something like an afterlife or a spiritual world we know nothing of and have no base of comparision.

to better clarify the statement you are questioning, how about this; God as the Father/creator is neither a spirit or physical being. Jesus was God in human form, the holy spirit is God's spiritual form to interact with his believers on earth and God the father exists in another realm that you and I have no way to explain further let alone explain why we do believe it or do not believe it.

[Frosty]

It is true that there is a Father and there is a Son and there is a holy Spirit, but they are not three Beings in one, still less are they one in three.

The Father is God in absolute right; He was, is, and always will be, the Supreme. As such, He is entitled to the worship and adoration and affection of all.

The Son is God in a relative sense only. He is "the only- begotten God" (John 1:18). As the Original of God's creation (Rev.3:14), the Firstborn of every creature (Col.1:15), He appeared before creation "in the form of God" (Phil.2:6) so that He might reveal to creation the God Whose true Image He is. But invariably the Son is pointing to the Father, and directing that glory be given to Him. It is the Father, Who (subsequent to obedience of His Son on the cross) ordains that acclamation be given to Christ, when He highly exalts Him, and gives Him a name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow. It is clearly stated that this acclamation is "for the glory of God, the Father."

The holy Spirit is not a god at all, but simply the power of God as manifested in His invisible, intangible operations. For example, it operated invisibly in order to bring about the conception of the babe Jesus (Matt.1:18). It operated, too, on the minds of the various ones chosen by God to write down His Word (2 Peter 1:21). Now it dwells in the hearts of God's saints (1 Cor.3:16). It is never, in itself, an object of worship, but directs praise and acclamation to God and to His Son.

The beautiful relationship which exists between the Father and the Son was most aptly expressed by Jesus, when He said, "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30), but this can by no means be used to support the theory of the Trinity, for later Jesus prayed that His disciples may also "be one, according as We are" (John 17:11), and later in the same chapter, "that they may all be one, according as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in Us" (v.21).

Jesus always recognized the Deity of His Father, and will always do so, for at the consummation He gives up the kingdom to His God and Father, and Himself is subject to the One Who has subjected all to Him, that God may be All in all (1 Cor.15:24-28).

http://www.godstruthfortoday.org/Library/essex/TheDeityOfGod02.htm

[BigCatDaddy]

Actually you have to be confusing me with someone else, I have never compared the apostles with Charlie Sheen and Rosie O'Donnell. That would be absurd, I know that Charlie Sheen and Rosie 0'Donnell exist, something I cannot say about the nice 12 characters from a great work of moral fiction known as the Bible.


http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=4018365#post4018365

[Frosty]

Good point, they must be Gods they appear before me out of thin air on a little box.

Or maybe it's all a man-made fake - meant to deceive the masses.

[asdf]

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Da2byMoEG30"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Da2byMoEG30" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[Calcountry]

going against post number two.....



He is all knowing and all powerful, but one thing that is sooooo hard to comprehend, he is of a place/realm/existance that we know nothing of, in all our glory here on earth - not a one of us know what it is like to die and exist in another, non-physical, form.No, that is not true. Jim most certainly is prescient and has knowledge of what it is like, after all, he is a god unto himself.

[Calcountry]

Because you perverted my statement and passed it off as saying something I wasn't, you are fishing for a discussion/fight/argument but I already know the outcome is pointless at this point, because you are not asking to gather information, you are trying to bait us.

oh, and I'm tired of talking about Trent Green? :shrug:




Yeah, I've known that all along, that's why he doesn't get under my skin....THere is a verse in the Bible that is fitting for what you just descovered about Jim.

It says something like, "cast not your pearls before swine".

The Pearl of great price, is not to be cast before an impudent swine who is seeking only to anger, confuse, and disturb people for his own amuzement.

[Bowser]

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cNV9FEKi9FQ"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cNV9FEKi9FQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[Stewie]

Have confidence in your beliefs and don't waste your time in debate when there are better things to do.

Telling someone they're stupid gets you nowhere.

[HolyHandgernade]

Jim, I'm sure when you were hanging out with Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson 250 years ago, this deism stuff was all the rage, but it doesn't really have a place anymore.

Actually, that was just the beginning, the infancy stages, Deism is the future of spirituality. Spirituality has evolved from animisms (prepersonal conceptions) to theisms (personal conceptions) and then eventually into deisms (transpersonal conceptions).

-HH

[Logical]

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=4018365#post4018365

I have quoted the post you linked to above, please show me where I mention Rosie O'Donnell and Charlie Sheen.

The problem with his part of the statement is that most of them did not die for what they wrote, even if you go by the fables only a couple died so I admit I discarded the died portion and only went with the page after page of written text. Sorry for not being clear.

[Logical]

because you are still poking.

I do believe, do you?


I was trying to point out that we can't explain something like an afterlife or a spiritual world we know nothing of and have no base of comparision.

to better clarify the statement you are questioning, how about this; God as the Father/creator is neither a spirit or physical being. Jesus was God in human form, the holy spirit is God's spiritual form to interact with his believers on earth and God the father exists in another realm that you and I have no way to explain further let alone explain why we do believe it or do not believe it.

Except of course when he appears as a burning bush, right?

[Logical]

No, that is not true. Jim most certainly is prescient and has knowledge of what it is like, after all, he is a god unto himself.No, remember I am evil incarnate.

[Logical]

Have confidence in your beliefs and don't waste your time in debate when there are better things to do.

Telling someone they're stupid gets you nowhere.

Just to be clear Stewie, I am pretty sure I have told no one they are stupid.

[Logical]

src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Da2byMoEG30"

That one is great.

[Hammock Parties]

Perhaps God has given up on humankind and is in the process of eliminating us through Global Warming and Natural Disasters.

He afterall is a vengeful, jealous and spiteful God according to the Bible.:D


OK, ive never given rep before, so i dont know how to do it yet, but my friend, you will get rep from me on this one.

[Imon Yourside]

God doesn't give up on people people give up on God which is really sad I feel sorry for people that make a joke out of the subject.

GOD does give up on people, note the Flood. An example of someone that GOD may have given up on is Sam Kinison no relation to Eddie.

[crazycoffey]

Just to be clear Stewie, I am pretty sure I have told no one they are stupid.



Nor have I....

[Logical]

Nor have I....I agree, I think this thread was well conducted by all parties.:thumb:

[Logical]

GOD does give up on people, note the Flood. An example of someone that GOD may have given up on is Sam Kinison no relation to Eddie.I agree on the flood example, not sure what you are talking about with Sam Kinison.

[DaneMcCloud]

I agree on the flood example, not sure what you are talking about with Sam Kinison.

He's trying to say that since Kinison had some "questionable" material about God & the Devil, he was killed by God for it.

God apparently didn't mind about Stalin, Hitler or even Ed Gein. But Kinison, boy look out!

[Calcountry]

Of course you know Jim, that if there really is a God, and he is "throwing us under the bus" with global warming, as you suggest, then is there anything that we, or our governments can do about it?

Ahh, but if we are all gods, then of course we can stop the sun from taking a big enough fart to wipe us out tomorrow?

[ClevelandBronco]

He's trying to say that since Kinison had some "questionable" material about God & the Devil, he was killed by God for it.

God apparently didn't mind about Stalin, Hitler or even Ed Gein. But Kinison, boy look out!

Um, yeah. Even if you could guess enough into God's intentions to say that He gave up on Kinison (and that's a pretty crazy premise), Kinison gave up on God long before. That is, if you can believe what Kinison said and how he lived. No one can know what he really believed.

I'm really just typing because I'm still awake. Celebrity salvation is about as tangentical as a discussion can go...

[DaneMcCloud]

Um, yeah. Even if you could guess enough into God's intentions to say that He gave up on Kinison (and that's a pretty crazy premise), Kinison gave up on God long before. That is, if you can believe what Kinison said and how he lived. No one can know what he really believed.

I'm really just typing because I'm still awake. Celebrity salvation is about as tangentical as a discussion can go...

No one can really know what "who" believed? Kinison? Uh, there are plenty of people still in LA that know exactly what Kinison did or didn't believe, so I'm not sure if there's a point in that statement.

[ClevelandBronco]

No one can really know what "who" believed? Kinison? Uh, there are plenty of people still in LA that know exactly what Kinison did or didn't believe, so I'm not sure if there's a point in that statement.

Dane, my wife and kids aren't entirely clear on what I believe, even though I've been trying to explain it for 20 years.

If you think that there's anyone in this world who understands what you believe, you're wrong. Just wrong.

By the same token, if you think that there's anyone in LA who understood what Kinison believed, you're wrong. Just wrong.

Only Kinison and God Himself understood what Kinison really believed. That was the point.

[DaneMcCloud]

Dane, my wife and kids aren't entirely clear on what I believe, even though I've been trying to explain it for 20 years.

If you think that there's anyone in this world who understands what you believe, you're wrong. Just wrong.

By the same token, if you think that there's anyone in LA who understood what Kinison believed, you're wrong. Just wrong.

Only Kinison and God Himself understood what Kinison really believed. That was the point.

I think the point is that it sounds like you're a very confused individual in need of serious introspection. Life is as easy as you make it or as difficult as you make it. If your wife of 20 years doesn't understand you, then pal, you need to put down the keyboard and make a connection.

As far as the LA thing, I must disagree. While I didn't personally know Sam, I've been friends with people that were very, very close to him. And it's pretty obvious what he "believed".

As far as I'm concerned, outside of this forum, I'm an open book. All of my friends know about all of my escapades, good and bad, as does my wife. Sometimes, I wonder why she even sticks around. But it's certainly not guesswork.

Good luck.

[ClevelandBronco]

I think the point is that it sounds like you're a very confused individual in need of serious introspection. Life is as easy as you make it or as difficult as you make it. If your wife of 20 years doesn't understand you, then pal, you need to put down the keyboard and make a connection.

As far as the LA thing, I must disagree. While I didn't personally know Sam, I've been friends with people that were very, very close to him. And it's pretty obvious what he "believed".

As far as I'm concerned, outside of this forum, I'm an open book. All of my friends know about all of my escapades, good and bad, as does my wife. Sometimes, I wonder why she even sticks around. But it's certainly not guesswork.

Good luck.

Anyone outside your mind can know what's inside your mind, simply because you "share" it?

You're the man who needs to examine his presumptions, IMHO.

My friend, you can be as honest as possible with everyone in your life and still you won't be known to anyone the way you know yourself, or the way God knows you.

If you've found a way to explain yourself fully to anyone, I'd say that you've led a shallow existence.

[DaneMcCloud]

Anyone outside your mind can know what's inside your mind, simply because you "share" it?

You're the man who needs to examine his presumptions, IMHO.

My friend, you can be as honest as possible with everyone in your life and still you won't be known to anyone the way you know yourself, or the way God knows you.

If you've found a way to explain yourself fully to anyone, I'd say that you've led a shallow existence.

Then we'll agree to disagree and leave it at that. :) Good luck to you.

[Logical]

Very interesting discussion between Dane and Cleveland. Congrats to them both for keeping it civil.

[CoMoChief]

Are we ever gonna sign Ty Law?

[Donger]

Very interesting discussion between Dane and Cleveland. Congrats to them both for keeping it civil.

Go f*ck yourself, Logical.

[chagrin]

No spiteful enough, you're still surviving - oh, forgot this :D

[Ultra Peanut]

Um, yeah. Even if you could guess enough into God's intentions to say that He gave up on Kinison (and that's a pretty crazy premise), Kinison gave up on God long before. That is, if you can believe what Kinison said and how he lived. No one can know what he really believed.

I'm really just typing because I'm still awake. Celebrity salvation is about as tangentical as a discussion can go...I would like to officially give up on the word "tangentical."

[Logical]

Go f*ck yourself, Logical.ROFL
Respect

[Logical]

No spiteful enough, you're still surviving - oh, forgot this :Dnlm(did not forget this)