Chiefs bringing in Paul Oliver [Archive]

Direckshun

06-26-2007, 10:53 PM

That said, Oliver was bonafide first round talent. He can play safety, sure, but he was tailor-made for Cover 2 CB. Gives us flexibility in case Chad Williams sucks at S, not to mention it finally gives us a true #3 CB, and we'll be halfway home in finding eventual replacements for Law and Surtain.

How high do you think the Chiefs bid?

If they like what they see, I bet they bid a 3rd.

Anyong Bluth

06-26-2007, 11:35 PM

Depending on his workouts, they may bid a 2nd. If the guy is true 1st round talent and tailor made for cover 2, why not snag him up? We are going to have a number of picks next year, and how can you complain about taking a 1st rounder w/ your 2nd.

I know it seems high, but I'm assuming that they base our pick based upon our slotting for last years draft. I think I remember reading that something like 23 teams gave him a look. Might be a bit tough to sneak him out w/ a 3rd based upon our slotting if the above is true.

Silock

06-27-2007, 12:04 AM

Offer a 2nd. There's no reason not to.

RustShack

06-27-2007, 12:18 AM

I'm sure we all know that the Chiefs drafting has gotten way better since Herm and the crew came to town. If they like him they will bring him in, especially because they wanted to draft one, and recently Herman said they picked up a CB late last year, and they will again this year. I think Paul Oliver is that CB, he was made for our system.

Logical

06-27-2007, 12:53 AM

bkkcoh

06-27-2007, 05:42 AM

What is the downside if they take him in the 1st round of the supplemental draft. I mean, they lose next years #1, but they get the use of another quality player for another year. You would never know what next years draft will hold either. The draft is always a crap-choot. Regardless if it is the regular or supplemental..

mylittlepony

06-27-2007, 07:04 AM

Sanka

06-27-2007, 07:11 AM

First round talent with a 2nd or 3rd round pick is a steal, just like Tank was.

Buehler445

06-27-2007, 07:24 AM

The only time I saw this kid play was when he shut down Calvin Johnson. At the end of the game, I said put him in Red. I think he also took a pass from the Colorado QB yard, but that may not be.

From one of the other threads, I read that he is ineligable for his Sr. year because of grades.

If I were the GM, I would pull the trigger on him. He appears to have the fundementals of a solid corner. I don't think we are getting Champ Bailey, but I think he can do good things for the team. I especially like that he will get another year of experience before Surtan and Law see the grave....I mean retire. But thank God I'm not the GM.

I'm going to leave this one to Herm. I think he has a good eye for defensive talent. If it were an offensive player, I'd be more concerned, but it appears that his eye for defensive talent is much better than anyone else's that KC could have making the decisions. On top of that, if he is a complete toolbag (e.g. failing out of Georgia), Herm is strong willed enough to pass on him.

I hope to good christ we get a steal of a pick on this guy.

Micjones

06-27-2007, 07:38 AM

I'd offer a #2 for the kid.

He'd be a great addition and solve half of the problem we'll have with replacing Surtain and Law next season.

I'm stoked about the possibility of Oliver being taken by the Chiefs.

Rudy tossed tigger's salad

06-27-2007, 07:46 AM

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=164938&highlight=oliver

those numbers would make me nervous to spend a 2nd on him

bkkcoh

06-27-2007, 08:12 AM

I would think there would be more impact on this years salary cap and rookie slice of the pie. Wouldn't it cause someone else to have to be let go, granted that wouldn't be a bad thing in most cases. But, with as much turn over in the roster as there has been so far or will be, we could be letting go a good player that can benefit us on the field...

It is a tough call...

ChiefsCountry

06-27-2007, 08:13 AM

No no 2nd round pick. Just wait and offer a later pick. 3rd is normally the highest any team offers in a suppelmental draft anyway.

Direckshun

06-27-2007, 09:23 AM

I heard next year should be a good O-line draft. I would hate to trade away a chance of getting our LT of the future. Just looking across the board I see (Long, Gaither, Richardson, Baker) as potential 1st round picks next year.

If he is still around for a 2nd or a 3rd then by all means, its a need.
Bingo. Don't burn a 1st on him. That negates any chance of getting value out of the kid. Plus we're going to need that 1st on an LT.

kcchiefsus

06-27-2007, 10:49 AM

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=164938&highlight=oliver

those numbers would make me nervous to spend a 2nd on him

Keep in mind all of the other cornerback prospects taken in the regular draft had several months to prepare for their workouts. Paul Oliver didn't have that luxury.

Also, look at Daymeion Hughes. He had worst numbers than that and fell to the 3rd even though he was still a 1st round talent. And who is it that picked him up? Indianapolis, another cover 2 defense. Oliver would do just fine in our scheme.

kcchiefsus

06-27-2007, 10:50 AM

No no 2nd round pick. Just wait and offer a later pick. 3rd is normally the highest any team offers in a suppelmental draft anyway.

Jamal Williams for the Chargers was drafted in the 2nd round of the supplemental draft.

pikesome

06-27-2007, 10:57 AM

We don't want to get too set on him. We still have holes to fill that aren't at CB. If we miss out on him with a 3rd we can always go CB shopping next draft.

Chiefnj

06-27-2007, 11:06 AM

Also, look at Daymeion Hughes. He had worst numbers than that and fell to the 3rd even though he was still a 1st round talent. And who is it that picked him up? Indianapolis, another cover 2 defense. Oliver would do just fine in our scheme.

Hughes wasn't a first round talent, nor was he a 2nd round talent. The market spoke and he was a very late 3rd round talent.

Rankings can change dramatically over one year. Just because Oliver rates highly right now, doesn't mean that had he kept his eligibility he'd be a 1st round talent in April 2008.

I'd like KC to keep their 1st and 2nd round picks. They could easily have a top 10 2nd round pick.

ChiefsCountry

06-27-2007, 11:09 AM

Jamal Williams for the Chargers was drafted in the 2nd round of the supplemental draft.

I said normally besides DT is a major position, CB is not.

Tribal Warfare

06-27-2007, 11:15 AM

I said normally besides DT is a major position, CB is not.

Dude, every position on the field is important because with one weakness the team is F*CKED.

Hog's Gone Fishin

06-27-2007, 11:15 AM

Would somebody explain the supplemental draft to me. I'm understanding if we use a 1st, 2nd,or whatever then we forfeit a pick in next years draft. That don't make any kinda sense to me.

Direckshun

06-27-2007, 11:20 AM

Would somebody explain the supplemental draft to me. I'm understanding if we use a 1st, 2nd,or whatever then we forfeit a pick in next years draft. That don't make any kinda sense to me.
Well that's the rules. It's an optional draft.

You can bid a 3rd rounder on a guy. If that's the highest bid, you win him, but you give up a 3rd rounder next year.

noa

06-27-2007, 11:20 AM

Would somebody explain the supplemental draft to me. I'm understanding if we use a 1st, 2nd,or whatever then we forfeit a pick in next years draft. That don't make any kinda sense to me.

Yep, you're right. I guess one of the ways the Chiefs could justify it is that we are stockpiling picks for next year, so we can probably afford to lose one in the supplemental if the player is a very good prospect.

pikesome

06-27-2007, 11:24 AM

Would somebody explain the supplemental draft to me. I'm understanding if we use a 1st, 2nd,or whatever then we forfeit a pick in next years draft. That don't make any kinda sense to me.

It depends on what you think you could get with that pick next year. One way to look at it like we get to "borrow" next year's pick to take a player in this draft. And we don't even have to pay interest.

shaneo69

06-27-2007, 11:26 AM

I believe Carl took Darren Mickell in the 2nd round of the '92 supplemental draft.

He was a starter for awhile, but then we let him walk after his 4th year as a UFA. IIRC, he had some substance abuse issues before and after he became a pro.

Buehler445

06-27-2007, 11:28 AM

It depends on what you think you could get with that pick next year. One way to look at it like we get to "borrow" next year's pick to take a player in this draft. And we don't even have to pay interest.

I'd be OK with it because we are drafting with our draft picks. I'm sure Herm will know what he is worth as to whether or not KC should offer up a pick. But I'm OK with getting someone out of the supplimental draft, as long as it isn't a no-talent kid. If he's got an upside, it is no different than the regular draft.

Hog's Gone Fishin

06-27-2007, 11:30 AM

Ok. I think I understand that part. Now why was this Oliver not in this years draft? Is he due to come out next year and we can go ahead and take him now or what.

Brock

06-27-2007, 11:32 AM

Ok. I think I understand that part. Now why was this Oliver not in this years draft? Is he due to come out next year and we can go ahead and take him now or what.

Academically ineligible to return to college. Read: Stupid.

pikesome

06-27-2007, 11:35 AM

Academically ineligible to return to college. Read: Stupid.

Or irresponsible. Neither are good.

DaneMcCloud

06-27-2007, 11:43 AM

Direckshun

06-27-2007, 11:46 AM

Oliver has off-field issues outside of academic problems?

Because the Commissioner isn't going to punish you for being dumb.

DaneMcCloud

06-27-2007, 11:48 AM

Oliver has off-field issues outside of academic problems?

Because the Commissioner isn't going to punish you for being dumb.

Oh. Misread. But he should. :p

pikesome

06-27-2007, 11:50 AM

Oh. Misread. But he should. :p

Then we'd have no one playing football. It'd have to be 8 man football played both ways.

DaneMcCloud

06-27-2007, 11:53 AM

Then we'd have no one playing football. It'd have to be 8 man football played both ways.

Yeah, I know. I was just kidding because *I* was the one who misinterpreted the other posts without reading.

I still wouldn't bid higher than a 5th.

Hog's Gone Fishin

06-27-2007, 11:56 AM

Academically ineligible to return to college. Read: Stupid.

Academically ineligible wouldn't have to mean he was stupid. Maybe he just skipped class cause he wanted to be out honing his football skills. I say take him if he was able to shut down Calvin Johnson. But thanks for the education.

RustShack

06-27-2007, 11:57 AM

Using a fifth round pick on Oliver would be very nice, and impossible. With the Chiefs picking late I think a forth would be pushing it too. If they draft Oliver it would most likely have to be in the third round, and theres still a chance someone else will draft him in the third before us.

Sure-Oz

06-27-2007, 12:00 PM

What is the supplemental draft and who is this guy?

tomahawk kid

06-27-2007, 12:00 PM

If they want him, they should just bid a second and call it a day.....

Brock

06-27-2007, 12:04 PM

Academically ineligible wouldn't have to mean he was stupid.

Actually, it does.

pikesome

06-27-2007, 12:04 PM

If they want him, they should just bid a second and call it a day.....

I wouldn't for a second. It seems, and I'll admit I didn't see him play, that he's trading on his one performance against Johnson. That, combined with the ineligiblity, would make me hesitant to do anything more than a 3rd. Hell, I'd be leery of anything more than a 4th without seeing game tape myself and talking to him personally.

Sure-Oz

06-27-2007, 12:07 PM

Actually, it does.
That are extremely lazy and didn't give a shit, but stupid sounds good.

Hog's Gone Fishin

06-27-2007, 12:07 PM

What is the supplemental draft and who is this guy?

At least I'm not the only one here that's stuped!

Go read the last 20 posts:p

Sure-Oz

06-27-2007, 12:09 PM

At least I'm not the only one here that's stuped!

Go read the last 20 posts:p
I'm lazy

kcchiefsus

06-27-2007, 12:17 PM

Hughes wasn't a first round talent, nor was he a 2nd round talent. The market spoke and he was a very late 3rd round talent.

Rankings can change dramatically over one year. Just because Oliver rates highly right now, doesn't mean that had he kept his eligibility he'd be a 1st round talent in April 2008.

I'd like KC to keep their 1st and 2nd round picks. They could easily have a top 10 2nd round pick.

No, Hughes was a first round talent until his slow 40 time scared teams off. 40 times shouldn't matter. If a guy can play he can play. If 40 times were not known for players Hughes would have been a 1st round pick last year simply because he was one of the best cornerbacks in the draft. He is a good player regardless of his 40 time.

Eric

06-27-2007, 12:18 PM

There are also those Otackles.

kcchiefsus

06-27-2007, 12:18 PM

I said normally besides DT is a major position, CB is not.

Cornerbacks get paid more than defensive tackles. I beg to differ that DT is a more major position than CB.

kcchiefsus

06-27-2007, 12:20 PM

I'd say put in a 4th or a 5th. With his off-field issues and the Commissioner's policies, I don't think there's any way a team would take him higher than the third round anyway.

A fifth round pick would be perfect.

Off the field issues?

So the commisioner is going to start suspending people for not doing their homework?

kcchiefsus

06-27-2007, 12:22 PM

I wouldn't for a second. It seems, and I'll admit I didn't see him play, that he's trading on his one performance against Johnson. That, combined with the ineligiblity, would make me hesitant to do anything more than a 3rd. Hell, I'd be leery of anything more than a 4th without seeing game tape myself and talking to him personally.

Considering the Chiefs are bringing him in for a visit I'm pretty sure they will have done both. They have probably already seen some tape on him and they will talk to him themselves.

A player who was considered by some to be the top senior cornerback for 2008 and is almost a lock for the top 15 in the draft for only a 2nd or 3rd round pick? I'll take that anyday.

tomahawk kid

06-27-2007, 12:23 PM

I wouldn't for a second. It seems, and I'll admit I didn't see him play, that he's trading on his one performance against Johnson. That, combined with the ineligiblity, would make me hesitant to do anything more than a 3rd. Hell, I'd be leery of anything more than a 4th without seeing game tape myself and talking to him personally.

On of my co-workers is a huge Georgia fan (originally from Atlanta).

He said that Oliver is a good kid and would be well worth a second round selection.

He did mention something about him "needing help upstairs" so I can see where you're coming from.

I'd just like a good young corner to develop.

Hog's Gone Fishin

06-27-2007, 12:31 PM

You don't have to be a genious to play cornerback, you just need long arms and the ability to run really fast.

DaneMcCloud

06-27-2007, 12:47 PM

Off the field issues?

So the commisioner is going to start suspending people for not doing their homework?

Thanks for playing along :thumb:

Chiefnj

06-27-2007, 12:51 PM

A player who was considered by some to be the top senior cornerback for 2008 and is almost a lock for the top 15 in the draft for only a 2nd or 3rd round pick? I'll take that anyday.

That's the part that confirms he is stupid. Look at the money made by a top 15 draft pick and that of a 2nd or 3rd round pick. The kid lost millions.

Silock

06-27-2007, 01:14 PM

You don't have to be a genious to play cornerback, you just need long arms and the ability to run really fast.

Exactly.

pikesome

06-27-2007, 01:15 PM

You don't have to be a genious to play cornerback, you just need long arms and the ability to run really fast.

But you need to be smart enough to stay away from strip clubs and your car when you've been drinking.

Direckshun

06-27-2007, 02:41 PM

You don't have to be a genious to play cornerback, you just need long arms and the ability to run really fast.
No effing way.

I'm willing to bet you'll see a larger variety of cornerbacks than you do at any other position in the NFL.

Some are tall and thin. Others short and fast. Some are slow and compensate with experience and veteran wiles.

It's a complicated act to keep someone from catching the ball. It's not as simply as speed and length.

Buehler445

06-27-2007, 02:46 PM

No effing way.

I'm willing to bet you'll see a larger variety of cornerbacks than you do at any other position in the NFL.

Some are tall and thin. Others short and fast. Some are slow and compensate with experience and veteran wiles.

It's a complicated act to keep someone from catching the ball. It's not as simply as speed and length.

Correct. Look at Devin Hester. He is a CB, and obviously fast as hell, but as I understand waaay too dumb to play CB, so they are trying to get him on Offense.

Chief Faithful

06-27-2007, 02:51 PM

Academically ineligible wouldn't have to mean he was stupid. Maybe he just skipped class cause he wanted to be out honing his football skills. I say take him if he was able to shut down Calvin Johnson. But thanks for the education.

From what I remember in college those guys that skipped class were not honing football skills. Instead they were honing their party skills.

Sounds like another kid who needs to grow up before he will be worth a spit. No higher than 3rd round based on the info in this thread.

Sully

06-27-2007, 03:11 PM

nyone else remember that MENSA Dale Carter?

ChiefsCountry

06-27-2007, 03:13 PM

Cornerbacks get paid more than defensive tackles. I beg to differ that DT is a more major position than CB.

You dont need stud CBs in a cover 2 system. We have went over this a thousand times on this board.

Silock

06-27-2007, 03:33 PM

Correct. Look at Devin Hester. He is a CB, and obviously fast as hell, but as I understand waaay too dumb to play CB, so they are trying to get him on Offense.

Yeah, but he's also only 5'11".

Direckshun

06-27-2007, 05:46 PM

Yeah, but he's also only 5'11".
Of the seven CBs elected to the Pro Bowl last year, here are the heights of five of them:

Champ Bailey, 6'0".
Ronde Barber, 5'10".
DeAngelo Hall, 5'10".
Walt Harris, 5'11".
Lito Shepard, 5'10".

The other two? Rashean Mathis and Chris McAlister, both 6'1".

Hester's height was not a liability. He just hasn't been that good of a CB on a defense deep at the position.

kcchiefsus

06-27-2007, 05:50 PM

You dont need stud CBs in a cover 2 system. We have went over this a thousand times on this board.

That's what everybody says but as I posted earlier then why did Chicago sign Nathan Vasher to such a big extension and why are they looking to re-sign Tillman to a big extension? Why has Indianapolis drafted 1 or 2 cornerbacks just about every year? These teams wouldn't invest so much in the position (both are cover 2 teams) if you didn't need stud cornerbacks.

beer bacon

06-27-2007, 06:00 PM

That's what everybody says but as I posted earlier then why did Chicago sign Nathan Vasher to such a big extension and why are they looking to re-sign Tillman to a big extension? Why has Indianapolis drafted 1 or 2 cornerbacks just about every year? These teams wouldn't invest so much in the position (both are cover 2 teams) if you didn't need stud cornerbacks.

The trick is that you still need good CBs for the cover 2. You don't need the track star CBs that usually garner 1st round picks in the draft.

The best CBs to draft for a cover 2 defense are the guys that have good coverage and tackling ability, that also might drop due to running a 4.5 40 instead of a 4.3. Hughes to Indianapolis is a perfect example of this. He could be a quality starting CB for the Colts, but if you put him on a team like Denver, a team that asks their CBs to play man coverage a lot, then he might just end up looking like burnt toast.

Vasher is a good example of a cover 2 CB. He dropped a bit in the draft due to relatively poor intangibles, and the Bears ended up being able to get him in the 4th round. Tillman was a 3rd round pick.