Seeking thoughts on aborted ebay transaction.

[Baby Lee]

In a bit of a funk and trying to think through what tact to take.

I bid on a subwoofer driver and won the auction last week.
It was a very good unit, the guy stated he hated to part with it, but was selling it b/c his gf was wanting something less intrusive in the living room.
The driver retails for $275 shipped. The opening bid was for $150. He said he'd had it for 6 months. He also placed a shipping calculator on the auction, which calculated shipping at $24.00 to my Zip Code.
Well I won the auction, for the opening and only bid of $150.00. Then I get the invoice from the guy and suddenly shipping is $35.00.
I send a reply e-mail saying "the shipping calculator you provided cited shipping at $24.00. $11.00 is not an unsubstantial difference. Please advise if I will be able to submit payment in accord with the terms listed in the auction." That was early Saturday morning.
No reply that e-mail. No reply at all until last night. Then, an hour apart I get two e-mails. First one "please send payment." Second, "do not send payment, buddy fell on the unit and destroyed it."

Needless to say, my spidey-sense tells me the guy was disappointed about not getting more for the unit. First he tried to get a little more by jacking up shipping. Then he decided to weasel out of the transaction.

But I'm not sure how far I want to pursue. I did spend some time drafting up some preliminary plans for the sub enclosure, doing the Theil Small calculations, comparing the output for differrent configurations, reading some DIY forums about people's experiences with this particular unit in different application, measuring what would be a good fit for my HT space, etc., and that's all pretty much wasted time, now.

My initial response was 'ask him for a picture of the 'destroyed' unit.'

Could press for specific performance, but if it is destroyed, why would I want that?

I haven't looked in to the ebay terms regarding where liability for safety of products contracted for attaches and is handed off.

Don't do a lot of transactions on there, and this isn't the biggest of deals. But it is a bummer, and I'd like the benefit of the bargain I made. Just looking to those with more experience, or just pain brainstorming.

[Skip Towne]

Hire a good lawyer.

[Bob Dole]

Bob Dole would at the very least ask for photographic evidence of the destroyed item.

[Brock]

I'm afraid you're just gonna have to let it go. Business on ebay is full of this kind of crap, and ebay doesn't care.

[TinyEvel]

I would just leave neutral feedback and in the comment say "transaction didn;t work out" or something non-flammatory.

They guy's a loser, but not worth trying to force him to sell you something he doesn't want to sell. And not worth trying to start a feedback war. IMO.

I was taken by a real scam artist for $2500 for a laptop. I lost COUNTLESS hours of sleep over that but I did my homework and eventually got the FBI to force him to pay me. That was a big deal over a LOT of money I lost. You are ahead of the curve, don't let it ruin your days.

[Lzen]

Just forget about it........after you leave a buyer comment about this douchebag.

[Baby Lee]

I'm afraid you're just gonna have to let it go. Business on ebay is full of this kind of crap, and ebay doesn't care.
Do they care how savage I am on his reputation comments? :fire:

[TrickyNicky]

He's gouging obviously, and will not have anything done to him because he can always claim the $11 was for packaging and special care for electronics in transit or some such thing.

If you have perfect feedback, I wouldn't go off on him or anything because he will pop your neg cherry. People do this all the time.

[trndobrd]

From the seller non-performance section of the ebay website...

"If a seller has refused to complete a sale, and payment has not been sent or payment has been refunded, report the seller. Make sure to include a copy of the email documenting the seller's refusal to complete the sale with the full message text and complete email headers when making your report."

Or you could just whip up a nasty demand letter and scare the poo-poo out of him.

[BucEyedPea]

Maybe he didn't really know the correct shipping costs.
You could check that out....but is he worth it?
It's only $150....but I guess if you mad enough....pursue.
I've done small claims before....if you need advice....pm! :p

[Redrum_69]

Do they care how savage I am on his reputation comments? :fire:


Reputation is very important in any online community.

One or two negative feedbacks and you are screwed.




Break a deal...spin the wheel....

[Baby Lee]

He's gouging obviously, and will not have anything done to him because he can always claim the $11 was for packaging and special care for electronics in transit or some such thing.

If you have perfect feedback, I wouldn't go off on him or anything because he will pop your neg cherry. People do this all the time.
Thing was, it was a decent enough deal that if he'd explained himself I might've acceded to the $35 shipping charge. And I didn't indicate that I wouldn't. I just inquired, because HE'S the one who put the shipping calculator on there and represented that it reflected what the charges would be, if he was going to honor the terms of the auction.

[Al Bundy]

I would say to just forget about it. You didn't lose any money. I would also keep the item on your watch list to see if he relists it. That way you can bust him for not selling it to you at the price you bid on.

[Baby Lee]

Also, what about the fact that, whether he tries to bust me on it or not, ebay has an unpaid item sitting on my account?

[Redrum_69]

Do you have the sellers name and address?

Call information and find out his number

Go to the EBAY forums and post the problem and see what the community says

[Mr. Laz]

send him a message that you will negative comment him and send aborted sale to Ebay if he doesn't complete sale.

he probably won't.....


but after a report and neg rep he won't be doing much business on ebay in the future.

[Mr. Laz]

Also, what about the fact that, whether he tries to bust me on it or not, ebay has an unpaid item sitting on my account?
why you need to be the one who reports it first ....... in detail ..... to prevent his spin.

[Al Bundy]

why you need to be the one who reports it first ....... in detail ..... to prevent his spin.
We have a winner.

[el borracho]

He is obviously in the wrong here and merits some kind of chastisement but the damage to you is minimal so I would not recommend starting WWIII over it. Make the official E-bay report, leave mildly neg comment on his feedback and then forget about it.

[Kylo Ren]

You've not paid anything. You're not out anything. Leave him some crappy feedback and just leave it alone. Forget about it.

[Baby Lee]

Well, I reported the matter to ebay, couching it in terms of while I'd like the contract honored, my primary consideration was addressing the unpaid item listed on my account.
I also sent a reply to the seller, through the ebay e-mail/inquiry/reply system, asking for a photo of the item in it's present condition.

[Simply Red]

I'd recommend neutral feed back stating that the item was unable to ship and move along. See Brock's post...

[Groves]

Any ebay tale of woe that ends in "I haven't lost any money" is a very very happy ending.

Keep looking for your woofer driver.

[Kylo Ren]

Any ebay tale of woe that ends in "I haven't lost any money" is a very very happy ending.

Keep looking for your woofer driver. Exactamundo.

[percysnow]

what u need to do is to email him and so no problem i understand and ask him if he could to give u positive feedback, once he does that trhen turn around and give him some real negative feedback. .

[Redrum_69]

Those woofers make great shark bait

[Mr. Laz]

Any ebay tale of woe that ends in "I haven't lost any money" is a very very happy ending
yea .... but he also needs to let the rest of the Ebay nation know that this guy isn't reliable.

Ebay depends on the members policing themselves

[Groves]

There's a new feature if I recall, that allows you to leave special information with the feedback that the person you're leaving feedback for doesn't see, but that others do.

[Fire Me Boy!]

I haven't read all the responses, so please forgive if this is a repost... I'd want pictures of the destroyed unit, and then I'd probably save his username info and every week or so for the next month (four times, not a lot of investment) check to make sure he didn't try to re-list the item.

[Simplex3]

Heh. This is nothing. I had a guy sell me a copy of Quickbooks "new and in the box" only to send me a burned CD that had been written on with a Sharpie. When I called Intuit (who dealt with it pretty reasonably) they said that guy had been selling copies with that license key for months. Despite a police report eBay wouldn't refund the transaction.

Do not count on eBay to help you deal with the miscreants on their site. They don't care.

[memyselfI]

Be thankful you learned the guy was a shark BEFORE you sent the money. This is a gifthorse. Consider yourself blessed.

Ebay has become a scammer haven and really a risky proposition anymore. I had someone sell me 'new' DVDs of seasons 1-4 of Sex and the City. They were burned on a computer and had ink jet printer jackets. I reported it to Ebay who did NADA. I reported it to my credit card company who refunded the money...

I got to keep the fake DVDs. :)

[Baby Lee]

Doesn't help to see the model I got screwed out of in action.

EDIT: This is the TC-3000, not the 2000 I bid on, but the excursion of both units is the same.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jbc4fW66U34"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jbc4fW66U34" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[Baby Lee]

OK, I've gotten back from ebay, in reply to an e-mail that laid everything out that 'you don't have an Unpaid Item strike on your account for this purchase [yet].'

So I guess I'm safe for now, but still need to remain vigilant for a while.

But the seller still hasn't responded to my request for a picture of the unit.

While I might've been amenable to neutral feedback, if he doesn't substante his claim that the item was 'destroyed,' I'm inclined to give negative feedback laying out the whole situation.

How much time to give this?

[tomahawk kid]

OK, I've gotten back from ebay, in reply to an e-mail that laid everything out that 'you don't have an Unpaid Item strike on your account for this purchase [yet].'

So I guess I'm safe for now, but still need to remain vigilant for a while.

But the seller still hasn't responded to my request for a picture of the unit.

While I might've been amenable to neutral feedback, if he doesn't substante his claim that the item was 'destroyed,' I'm inclined to give negative feedback laying out the whole situation.

How much time to give this?

A week at the very most.

Seriously, I wouldn't spend much more time worrying about it.

To everyone else's point, you've lost nothing and learned a valuable lesson in the process.

[Dunit35]

Heh. This is nothing. I had a guy sell me a copy of Quickbooks "new and in the box" only to send me a burned CD that had been written on with a Sharpie. When I called Intuit (who dealt with it pretty reasonably) they said that guy had been selling copies with that license key for months. Despite a police report eBay wouldn't refund the transaction.

Do not count on eBay to help you deal with the miscreants on their site. They don't care.


Sounds like the time I bought a CD in high school off Ebay. The doushe said it was brand new, never opened. The damn thing was burned and had a homemade cover label on it.

So, we made him send me the actually cd and sure enough it was a burned one again. We said screw it and left him negative feedback.

[Baby Lee]

Hee!!! After I asked him to send a picture of the unit in its present condition on MONDAY:

07/11/07 10:34 PM - oh man i have two subs one was damaged yours however is just dandy just waiting for payment

07/12/07 09:20 AM - actually man me and my fiance talked about it and I really just dont think I can sell this driver for so little so keep your money, give me bad feedback if you must but I cant afford to get a new sub and I dont want to have no sub so I guess ill just keep this one sorry for any trouble.

[HemiEd]

Hee!!! After I asked him to send a picture of the unit in its present condition on MONDAY:

Pathetic. Ebay has lost its burst.

[trndobrd]

Hee!!! After I asked him to send a picture of the unit in its present condition on MONDAY:



I assume you've already sent Lenny and Vic over to have a little talk about the importance of keeping a deal.

[Baby Lee]

I assume you've already sent Lenny and Vic over to have a little talk about the importance of keeping a deal.
Not yet. I have his telephone # as well as his e-mail addy, and am pondering what would be the best approach.

IF, that's IF, I decide I want to realize the contract, I'm couching it in terms of 'just looking out for him.' ie, He doesn't realize the ramifications of his decision. He's sent me correspondence, through the ebay email system, documenting that he intends to break a contract of sale because he reconsidered the bargain after it was struck. Point out how pissed he'd be, and all the recourse he'd have, if I'd OVERbid and reconsidered. Point out this isn't just a bad mark on a comment card, I'd need to make sure ebay was aware of the situation and they might think it merited suspension of his account. Point all the trouble I've gone through, and ask him if he thinks the pending trouble coming his way is worth the few bucks he thought the auction would bring but didn't.

[Eleazar]

When I got a pair of Chiefs tickets for opening day on there once for only $5-$10 over face value, the seller tried to charge me $30 for S&H, even though he lived in Overland Park. I offered to meet him anytime in the next 2+ weeks at the time and place of his choosing but he refused. He threatened to leave me negative feedback but I retorted that I would raise hell with ebay so nothing ever came of it and he relisted them.

Even if it has a shipping calculator, you can build in a fee for your handling charge when you create the auction.

I will never bid on an auction that does not have calculated shipping, nor will I pay any more than the calculated value.

[trndobrd]

Not yet. I have his telephone # as well as his e-mail addy, and am pondering what would be the best approach.

IF, that's IF, I decide I want to realize the contract, I'm couching it in terms of 'just looking out for him.' ie, He doesn't realize the ramifications of his decision. He's sent me correspondence, through the ebay email system, documenting that he intends to break a contract of sale because he reconsidered the bargain after it was struck. Point out how pissed he'd be, and all the recourse he'd have, if I'd OVERbid and reconsidered. Point out this isn't just a bad mark on a comment card, I'd need to make sure ebay was aware of the situation and they might think it merited suspension of his account. Point all the trouble I've gone through, and ask him if he thinks the pending trouble coming his way is worth the few bucks he thought the auction would bring but didn't.


I wouldn't go to the trouble of a demand letter. At the end of the day, he would probably ship you a sub containing human fecal matter. I would just contact ebay directly with his emails and try to have him suspended.

On the other hand, Lenny and Vic could ensure that his fingers don't do any more dancing across the keyboard.

[Simply Red]

Not yet. I have his telephone # as well as his e-mail addy, and am pondering what would be the best approach.

IF, that's IF, I decide I want to realize the contract, I'm couching it in terms of 'just looking out for him.' ie, He doesn't realize the ramifications of his decision. He's sent me correspondence, through the ebay email system, documenting that he intends to break a contract of sale because he reconsidered the bargain after it was struck. Point out how pissed he'd be, and all the recourse he'd have, if I'd OVERbid and reconsidered. Point out this isn't just a bad mark on a comment card, I'd need to make sure ebay was aware of the situation and they might think it merited suspension of his account. Point all the trouble I've gone through, and ask him if he thinks the pending trouble coming his way is worth the few bucks he thought the auction would bring but didn't.
Man you must've really wanted those suckers. Crap with all the time you've put in to this you could have earned enough to buy a nicer pair.

I understand though, I think. I guess at this point it is all about principal and the dirtbag breaking a promise and swerving protocal because he decided to break the deal.

Gotcha...

fugging ADD!
:)

[Simply Red]

Being that I'm a n00b and well an ebay n00b as well. Is it common for a buyer to wait until day seven to pay after winning the auction?

[OnTheWarpath15]

As someone who uses Ebay quite a bit, I appreciate the time BL is taking in this situation.

As BL said, had the roles been reversed, and he wanted out of the contract, all hell would've broke loose.

People like this need to be exposed to the rest of the Ebay community, and accurate feedback is essential when determining who to do business with.

[Simply Red]

As someone who uses Ebay quite a bit, I appreciate the time BL is taking in this situation.

As BL said, had the roles been reversed, and he wanted out of the contract, all hell would've broke loose.

People like this need to be exposed to the rest of the Ebay community, and accurate feedback is essential when determining who to do business with.

So can you please answer post 43 now? :)

[OnTheWarpath15]

Being that I'm a n00b and well an ebay n00b as well. Is it common for a buyer to wait until day seven to pay after winning the auction?

When I buy, I pay immediately. I figure the quicker I pay, the quicker I get the item.

When I sell, I either demand immediate payment, or specifically say in the listing that payment must be made within 24 hours of the auctions end.......non-payment resulting in neg. feedback and I relist the item.

And I've never had a problem, either way.

However, I'm sure that there are people out there who string it out.....

[Simply Red]

When I buy, I pay immediately. I figure the quicker I pay, the quicker I get the item.

When I sell, I either demand immediate payment, or specifically say in the listing that payment must be made within 24 hours of the auctions end.......non-payment resulting in neg. feedback and I relist the item.

And I've never had a problem, either way.
Just my luck. Plus the dumbass is fifty/fifty he's/she's been neg. for not paying one other time.

Can you call them a dumbass in the comments like you can here?

J/K...

[Baby Lee]

I wouldn't go to the trouble of a demand letter. At the end of the day, he would probably ship you a sub containing human fecal matter. I would just contact ebay directly with his emails and try to have him suspended.

On the other hand, Lenny and Vic could ensure that his fingers don't do any more dancing across the keyboard.
That's why I'm musing over the telephone call angle. I'm trying to suss out whether the guy is a general issue douchbag, or just a usually decent guy feeling buttsexxed by an auction that didn't draw the attention he thought it would and responding poorly.
I don't particularly get off on destroying peoples' reputations, so if he's a decent guy responding badly, I'd like to offer him an opportunity to stand up. But at the end of the day, if this doesn't end to my satisfaction [for whatever reason], Ebay will know all about it.

[burt]

Let's be real honest with ourselves here.....the interweb is swimming with scam artist sharks and bungled business proposals. Whenever you do business with an anonymous entity and have no relationship whatsoever....shits gonna happen. I do some extremely guarded business on the web, but I am always aware of the most negative sides to be prepared.

Not trying to insult anyone, but if you are going to risk a large amount of money($2500.00 for instance), purchasing on the ineternet, you had better build in as many safeguards as possible...these are hardened scam artists for that sum. Remember, if it seems tooo good to be true....it usually isn't true.

I recently had someone attempt to scam my dealership through emails..I called the local PD and they said it was best to just drop it and be glad that I recognized the scam. They continued to say that there are so many scams out there that unless there is a VERY large amount of money lost that they don't get involved and when they do, usually nothing can be done.

[OnTheWarpath15]

That's why I'm musing over the telephone call angle. I'm trying to suss out whether the guy is a general issue douchbag, or just a usually decent guy feeling buttsexxed by an auction that didn't draw the attention he thought it would and responding poorly.
I don't particularly get off on destroying peoples' reputations, so if he's a decent guy responding badly, I'd like to offer him an opportunity to stand up. But at the end of the day, if this doesn't end to my satisfaction [for whatever reason], Ebay will know all about it.

Not to be a prick, but if you (seller) are worried about what the item might bring, you should set a reserve price. Then, if the reserve isn't met, which in this case it wouldn't have, you are under no obligation to sell.

Even decent people need to learn a lesson sometimes.....

[Simply Red]

Not to be a prick, but if you (seller) are worried about what the item might bring, you should set a reserve price. Then, if the reserve isn't met, which in this case it wouldn't have, you are under no obligation to sell.

Even decent people need to learn a lesson sometimes.....


What if I'm not decent? Can you still share some additional ebay tips?

[OnTheWarpath15]

What if I'm not decent? Can you still share some additional ebay tips?


I guess so......

[Redrum_69]

Buy my star wars collection

[HemiEd]

Not to be a prick, but if you (seller) are worried about what the item might bring, you should set a reserve price. Then, if the reserve isn't met, which in this case it wouldn't have, you are under no obligation to sell.

Even decent people need to learn a lesson sometimes.....

Many sellers try and avoid the extra cost for this option, getting burned.

[Baby Lee]

Many sellers try and avoid the extra cost for this option, getting burned.
I don't know the differences between a reserve and an opening bid, but the opening bid amount is what I bid, and apparently I was the only bidder.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Many sellers try and avoid the extra cost for this option, getting burned.

Then they deserve to get burned. JMO.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't know the differences between a reserve and an opening bid, but the opening bid amount is what I bid, and apparently I was the only bidder.

A reserve price is the minimum amount you are willing to complete the sale at. A seller uses it to guarantee a certain $ amount for his item.

He could have set the opening bid at $150, but set a reserve price, which is unknown to bidders, at $200.

Then, if the winning bid is under $200, he's not obligated to complete the transaction.

It's a safeguard for situations like this, and he blew it......

[Baby Lee]

E-mail, somewhat compromised by ebay's character limitations

Please, Mr XXXX, for your sake I don't think you want to do this. There's a little more than bad feedback involved here. When an item is placed by one party and a winning bid is placed by another, a binding contract is formed. Ebay rules expressly expect that this contract be honored. Failure to do so can result in account adjustment, up to suspension, forfeiture of fees, even referral to law enforcement. And really, your activities have ranged beyond just not honoring the auction contract terms. You raised the shipping beyond that you represented in the auction. You lied about the unit being destroyed. You lied about having two subs. And in the end you admitted all of this was because you didn't want to honor the sale.
I have not reported these developments because I really don't want to ding your reputation unless I have to. Ebay users I've spoken to about this are concerned that I've given the matter this much leeway without reporting it. Contact me regarding how we can resolve.

Oh, and part of my calculus in pushing forward with this, in spite of inherent risks that he'd damage the item out of spite is, 1) he's already guaranteed the item, and more importantly 2) he's refusing sale because he wants to keep it. There's an obvious affinity for the unit, so I'm calculating that either that affinity if great enough that he'll tell me to do my worst to his ebay rep, or he'll be stand up about the matter as it goes out the door.

[HemiEd]

Then they deserve to get burned. JMO.

Exactly! Just as in Baby Lees case.

I have had it happen on both ends, buying and selling. I find that I usually get more bidding action without a reserve, but it is a risk I take. People are always looking for a bargain.

[trndobrd]

E-mail, somewhat compromised by ebay's character limitations

Looks good, including the thinly veiled reference to law enforcement. one urine soaked sub is probably on it's way to you right now.

[Baby Lee]

Looks good, including the thinly veiled reference to law enforcement. one urine soaked sub is probably on it's way to you right now.
Wouldn't have referenced it, if it didn't come straight from the non-performance page.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-non-performance.html

Violations of this policy by a seller may result in a range of actions, including:

Listing cancellation

Limits on account privileges

Account suspension

Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings

Selling fee schedule adjustments

Loss of PowerSeller status

Referral to Law Enforcement

[Skyy God]

E-mail, somewhat compromised by ebay's character limitations

Oh, and part of my calculus in pushing forward with this, in spite of inherent risks that he'd damage the item out of spite is, 1) he's already guaranteed the item, and more importantly 2) he's refusing sale because he wants to keep it. There's an obvious affinity for the unit, so I'm calculating that either that affinity if great enough that he'll tell me to do my worst to his ebay rep, or he'll be stand up about the matter as it goes out the door.

Four words. Just let it go. Move on the next deal and quit trying to be a cheapskate/angry spurned buyer.

[Baby Lee]

Four words. Just let it go. Move on the next deal and quit trying to be a cheapskate/angry spurned buyer.
As OnTheWarpath58 has pointed out, letting it go is a disservice to Ebay.
I think I'm being more than reasonable in giving the guy a chance to avoid having his reputation ruined, but if it comes to it, I need to make sure that Ebay is aware of what transpired.
If people are free to breach contracts made on Ebay without recourse, it's pretty much a useless site.

[Valiant]

Four words. Just let it go. Move on the next deal and quit trying to be a cheapskate/angry spurned buyer.


Screw that.. That is the cheapskate way, just turn your nose like all the other pussified Americans now with newer generations.. You and the other guy made an agreement and he should have to honor it, nail his ebay rep if he refuses and post why you did so.. It will kill people buying from him and hopefully he learns from it..

[Eleazar]

Four words. Just let it go. Move on the next deal and quit trying to be a cheapskate/angry spurned buyer.

Just mail him the sub dude, it's only money anyway. It's not worth getting the negative feedback. Just send it and this will all be over.

[trndobrd]

Wouldn't have referenced it, if it didn't come straight from the non-performance page.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-non-performance.html



I'm not complaining. Every good demand letter has some reference to law enforcement or the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. You did forget to suggest that you would seek punitive damages and attorney's fees.

[Baby Lee]

I'm not complaining. Every good demand letter has some reference to law enforcement or the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. You did forget to suggest that you would seek punitive damages and attorney's fees.
1. I'm straining to be reasonable. I'd rather walk away than go to the effort of report, though clearly getting the benefit of the bargain is still the optimum outcome. But I do fell constrained not to let this go without comment.
2. I was limited by the character count imposed on Ebay's e-mail system, so I had to chose the points I made carefully.

[trndobrd]

1. I'm straining to be reasonable. I'd rather walk away than go to the effort of report, though clearly getting the benefit of the bargain is still the optimum outcome. But I do fell constrained not to let this go without comment.
2. I was limited by the character count imposed on Ebay's e-mail system, so I had to chose the points I made carefully.



RIGHT ON! Aunty Entity wouldn't put up with that crap and neither should you.


(Lenny and Vic aren't constrained by character counts. They aren't constrained by charachter at all.)