DUIs aside, who would you rather have? Freeney or Jared Allen?

[HemiEd]

Remember, off field record is stricken. Who would you prefer and why?

Last three years=2004,2005,2006
Freeney
sacks 16 11 5.5
Passes Defensed 3 3 3
Tackles 31 29 26


Allen
sacks 9 11 7.5
Passes Defensed 0 5 10
Tackles 29 48 65


I see a trend, it is going in the up direction for Jared, and down for Freeney. Maybe it is the scheme they play in, but Freeney looks one demensional compared to Jared.

[htismaqe]

You're not serious are you?

[HemiEd]

You're not serious are you?

Yes, I am. It is hard to forget his off field issues, but Jared is a player on the rise. Is Freeney going to pick it up again?

Just curious what your thoughts are, I don't have all the answers.

The Freeney contract got me wondering what JA would command if he didn't have the problems.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

If Jared had no off the field problems, I would choose him over Freeney easily. He has a better motor than Freeney and longer arms.

[Splat420]

Jared Allen is a much better all around player and younger as well I would take him over DF for sure.

[beer bacon]

Maybe if we didn't have Tamba, a good all-around DE on the other side, it would be different, but Freeney would do much more for our team then JA. JA is a great football player, but the single most important thing for the cover 2 is a good pass rush from the front four.

[InChiefsHeaven]

JA. Younger and cheaper, and plenty of upside. I don't see his production dropping of like Freeny's did last season.

[HemiEd]

JA. Younger and cheaper, and plenty of upside. I don't see his production dropping of like Freeny's did last season.

That is the reason I started this thread. I wonder how much JA has cost himself now with the DUIs?

[Eleazar]

I don't understand how anyone can pick Allen, except out of homerism. He's a nice player, but sheesh.

[HemiEd]

I don't understand how anyone can pick Allen, except out of homerism. He's a nice player, but sheesh.
Last three years=2004,2005,2006
Freeney
sacks 16 11 5.5
Passes Defensed 3 3 3
Tackles 31 29 26


Allen
sacks 9 11 7.5
Passes Defensed 0 5 10
Tackles 29 48 65


I see a trend, it is going in the up direction for Jared, and down for Freeney. Maybe it is the scheme they play in, but Freeney looks one demensional compared to Jared.

[Logical]

I don't understand how anyone can pick Allen, except out of homerism. He's a nice player, but sheesh.Yup

[Direckshun]

Freeney's a sack machine, but there's a reason Indy's so poor against the run and he contributes to it.

Jared's game is already more complete, and he's got 8 years ahead of him.

[morphius]

I picked allen, because I'm a homer, wanted the score closer and wanted to test why this piece of crap crashed!!!

[JBucc]

I'll consider last year a fluke and take Freeney for now, but another year like that and I'll change my mind.

[CHENZ A!]

Freeney no doubt

[Saulbadguy]

You'd have to be a retard to pick Allen.

[HemiEd]

Freeney's a sack machine, but there's a reason Indy's so poor against the run and he contributes to it.

Jared's game is already more complete, and he's got 8 years ahead of him.
I agree, Freeney has only had 5 more sacks than Jared over the last three years, but Jared has blown him away in tackles. In fact, Jared has increased his tackles by around 50% each year.

But since Jared is a Chief, the other guy has to be better! :rolleyes:

[keg in kc]

That's like asking if I'd rather have Reuben Droughns or Larry Johnson. Do I want a servicable guy who can do some nice things, or do I want a gamechanging player?

In other words...

Freeney every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[HemiEd]

You'd have to be a retard to pick Allen.

Or a homerphob not to. The numbers don't lie

[Sully]

Allen, good player, good motor, makes some plays

Freeney, great player, great motor, game changer

[HemiEd]

That's like asking if I'd rather have Reuben Droughns or Larry Johnson. Do I want a servicable guy who can do some nice things, or do I want a gamechanging player?

In other words...

Freeney every day of the week and twice on Sunday.


Sounds like you are not even on the fence, you pretty well have your mind made up.

[orange]

Or a homerphob not to. The numbers don't lie

Freeney gets his numbers against a double-team on virtually every play, opening things up for the rest of Colts D.

[the Talking Can]

Freeney is one of the worst DE's in the league against the run, but when he is healthy he is a great pass rusher...I'd rather have JA at a reasonable price then Freeney at his price...plus JA is younger...

[the Talking Can]

Freeney gets his numbers against a double-team on virtually every play, opening things up for the rest of Colts D.

and JA has played with Hicks and trash DTs since he's been in the league....

[Mecca]

Well at least he didn't say Julius Peppers.....wasn't it Frankie who said he'd rather have Allen than Peppers...I know someone did.

[Sully]

FOr those saying Allen...
DO you honestly believe teams gameplan around him? (I mean above the normal gameplanning around any NFL player's skill-set).
I have doubts that they do, but I feel pretty strongly that teams must account for Freeney every play.

[Direckshun]

FOr those saying Allen...
DO you honestly believe teams gameplan around him? (I mean above the normal gameplanning around any NFL player's skill-set).
Yes.

[Skip Towne]

Allen is surprisingly fast. He makes a lot of tackles on the other side of the field.

[HemiEd]

and JA has played with Hicks and trash DTs since he's been in the league....

Egg****ingzacktly! The knock against Jared Allen, early on, was that he couldn't stop the run. You don't hear that anymore, he has improved each year.

I would love to see some stats on forced fumbles.

[orange]

and JA has played with Hicks and trash DTs since he's been in the league....

... and he still doesn't get doubleteamed. This helps the pro-Allen position how?

[Fish]

according to nfl.com stats:

Forced Fumbles

Allen

05:0
06:7
07:3

Freeney

02:9
03:4
05:4
06:6
07:4

[orange]

according to nfl.com stats:

Forced Fumbles

Allen

05:0
06:7
07:3

Freeney

02:9
03:4
05:4
06:6
07:4

The edge clearly to Freeney: 5.4 per year, vs, 3.33 per year. Have you come around yet, HemiEd?

[Simply Red]

Interesting thread. I can't really determine which of the two I'd take. Probably Allen, largely because he is an above average tackler.

[HemiEd]

according to nfl.com stats:

Forced Fumbles

Allen

05:0
06:7
07:3

Freeney

02:9
03:4
05:4
06:6
07:4

Thanks, very interesting. So if you take out Allen's rookie year, and just look at the last two, they both have 10. :D

[HemiEd]

The edge clearly to Freeney: 5.4 per year, vs, 3.33 per year. Have you come around yet, HemiEd?

Oh hell no, and you haven't proven a thing just saying he doesn't get doubled. I would love for GoChiefs to provide some video on the subject, but I think he is stranded in Springfield.

Their FF numbers are even the last two years.

[the Talking Can]

... and he still doesn't get doubleteamed.

????

[orange]

Okay, how about we ask the experts:

Pollian thinks Freeney is worth more than $10 million a year.

Peterson doesn't think Allen is worth what an average starting DE makes, which is what JA is asking for.

[the Talking Can]

Okay, how about we ask the experts:

Pollian thinks Freeney is worth more than $10 million a year.

Peterson doesn't think Allen is worth what an average starting DE makes, which is what JA is asking for.


uh, that's been my point all along....Allen is a better value, imo, as I said explicitly in my first post....

Allen will provide more productivity per dollar over his next contract than Freeney will.

[orange]

Remember, off field record is stricken. Who would you prefer and why?

....

I thought the whole point of this discussion was "based on their performance," not price-tag. If we're going to add in off-field stuff, factor in the fact that Allen is only a Chief for 12 more games, then he's gone.

"But we'll just franchise his ass..." Sorry, but if the Chiefs won't pay him $5 million, their not going to pay him the $12 million or so franchise price.

[HemiEd]

Okay, how about we ask the experts:

Pollian thinks Freeney is worth more than $10 million a year.

Peterson doesn't think Allen is worth what an average starting DE makes, which is what JA is asking for.

I am glad you brought that up, and it is what sparked this thread idea.
I wonder how much money the DUIs will end up costing Allen?
Carl is in a position of already having him locked up, for 2007 and I think he will tag him 2008.
If JA stays clean that long, and is still not descending, he will get a huge payday IMO.
The Freeney contract will get Allen some money next year, if he is tagged, if I understand the process correctly.

Oh, and Jared's agent is much more greedy than you think.

[orange]

See my post above, edited while you were writing yours. Sorry about that, it's a habit I've got to break.

[the Talking Can]

my opinion of Freeney is forever tainted by watching him get embarrassed repeatedly by Roaf....I've never seen a single player whipped, beaten, and humiliated as Freeney was by Roaf in that playoff game.

Every snap it was as if Freeney jumped into a dark, bottomless well....he literally disappeared off the screen into the abyss that was our Hall of Fame LT....

[orange]

...

Oh, and Jared's agent is much more greedy than you think.

Allen signed the one-year deal for $2.5 million for 2007 (according to Wikipedia).

That's less than half what his backup Eric Hicks made last year on the bench.

[milkman]

This is actually harder than some people make it out to be.

Freeny is (or perhaps was) a great pass rusher, but he has never had the impact on that Colt D that DT had for the Chiefs.

He's not as much a liability against the run that DT was, but neither is he a good run defender.

His sacks can be momentum, game changing plays, but JA has also had some game changing plays.

JA is more complete, and still ascending, while Freeny may be descending.

The fact is, neither are the impact type player that Peppers is, or DT was.

Freeny 3 years ago would have been the easy answer.
But that isn't the case.

Right now, I think I'd take JA.

[Simply Red]

my opinion of Freeney is forever tainted by watching him get embarrassed repeatedly by Roaf....I've never seen a single player whipped, beaten, and humiliated as Freeney was by Roaf in that playoff game.

Every snap it was as if Freeney jumped into a dark, bottomless well....he literally disappeared off the screen into the abyss that was our Hall of Fame LT....
yeah, but quit blaming god every time we lose. :p

[the Talking Can]

He's not as much a liability against the run that DT was, but neither is he a good run defender.



wow, I really disagree with this...my memory of DT is probably too kind, but Freeney gets destroyed regularly against the run...

[the Talking Can]

yeah, but quit blaming god every time we lose. :p

but that's the only thing God is good for....

[HemiEd]

my opinion of Freeney is forever tainted by watching him get embarrassed repeatedly by Roaf....I've never seen a single player whipped, beaten, and humiliated as Freeney was by Roaf in that playoff game.

Every snap it was as if Freeney jumped into a dark, bottomless well....he literally disappeared off the screen into the abyss that was our Hall of Fame LT....
Was big Willie needing double team help? ROFL



Allen signed the one-year deal for $2.5 million for 2007 (according to Wikipedia).

That's less than half what his backup Eric Hicks made last year on the bench.
Allen had no choice, he was a RESTRICTED free agent. His choice was to sign or set out. Or somebody give up a first and a third IIRC.
Its a business, and Carl runs it like one. Jared's agent wanted to renegoiate after his rookie year.

[Simply Red]

but that's the only thing God is good for....
That's fine, if that is what you believe. I have no issue's with opinions. God has much more severe things to concern himself w/ aside from footballl. : )

[HemiEd]

This is actually harder than some people make it out to be.

Freeny is (or perhaps was) a great pass rusher, but he has never had the impact on that Colt D that DT had for the Chiefs.

He's not as much a liability against the run that DT was, but neither is he a good run defender.

His sacks can be momentum, game changing plays, but JA has also had some game changing plays.

JA is more complete, and still ascending, while Freeny may be descending.

The fact is, neither are the impact type player that Peppers is, or DT was.

Freeny 3 years ago would have been the easy answer.
But that isn't the case.




Right now, I think I'd take JA.


Well said! I agree on all counts.

[milkman]

wow, I really disagree with this...my memory of DT is probably too kind, but Freeney gets destroyed regularly against the run...

Freeny doesn't run himself out of almost every running play that DT did.

That wasn't entirely DT's fault.

[HemiEd]

Freeny doesn't run himself out of almost every running play that DT did.

That wasn't entirely DT's fault.

DT was improving against the run, in his latter years though.

[Splat420]

You'd have to be a retard to pick Allen.

No you just have to know football and not let the media tell you who is a great player DF is overrated can he get to the QB yes but he can't stop the run. I would take Allen he is more of a play maker and has a higher motter can play the run and pass and is always knocking the ball loose he has more up side.

[Kylo Ren]

Looking at the stats, HemiEd makes a very good point. Jared has only 5 less sacks in 3 seasons and he blows Freeney out of the water in tackles. However, we all know that stats don't tell the whole story. I just hope these stats and Freeney's new contract don't give Allen's agent any crazy ideas. If JA gets a much more reasonable contract than Freeney, then I would pick JA as the player who is producing, dollar for dollar, way more. But, if you just choose one over the other without takinng dollars into account, then you have to choose Freeney. Clear as mud?

[milkman]

Looking at the stats, HemiEd makes a very good point. Jared has only 5 less sacks in 3 seasons and he blows Freeney out of the water in tackles. However, we all know that stats don't tell the whole story. I just hope these stats and Freeney's new contract don't give Allen's agent any crazy ideas. If JA gets a much more reasonable contract than Freeney, then I would pick JA as the player who is producing, dollar for dollar, way more. But, if you just choose one over the other without takinng dollars into account, then you have to choose Freeney. Clear as mud?

No, it's not clear as mud.

When you look at those stats, and you also actually watch some games, you can see that Freeny hasn't really been the same player the last couple of seasons that he was before.

The fact is, while Allen has a tendency to diappear in games, Freeny was virtually invisible last year.

3 of his 5 sacks last year came in a game against a backup tackle.

[blueballs]

Freeny has sex with the corn muffin

[Direckshun]

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/73717583.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1930EC3535F149CDF2300188724AE4B25FE

[Direckshun]

It's also entirely possible to say this is an apples and oranges battle, here.

Under the Herm Edwards gameplan, both teams are fighting for field position, making stopping the run the most prominent aspect of the DL. Jared Allen gets okay sack numbers, but good fumble and tackle numbers.

Under Peyton Manning's Colts, the offense typically builds up a lead and the other team has to pass every down to catch up, allowing one-dimensional pass rushers like Freeney to kick ass.

It's doubtful that either player could out-play the incumbent in either system.

[milkman]

It's also entirely possible to say this is an apples and oranges battle, here.

Under the Herm Edwards gameplan, both teams are fighting for field position, making stopping the run the most prominent aspect of the DL. Jared Allen gets okay sack numbers, but good fumble and tackle numbers.

Under Peyton Manning's Colts, the offense typically builds up a lead and the other team has to pass every down to catch up, allowing one-dimensional pass rushers like Freeney to kick ass.

It's doubtful that either player could out-play the incumbent in either system.

It's the same system (Cover Two), only the game situations are different.

It might be interesting to find out how many sacks Allen could accumulate if he had the chance to pin his ears back.

I do agree, though, that Freeney would be out of his element if he had to play in KC.

[Splat420]

No, it's not clear as mud.
When you look at those stats, and you also actually watch some games, you can see that Freeny hasn't really been the same player the last couple of seasons that he was before.


I agree now that OT's have learned how to play DF he can be shut down he is not very strong and like others have said he really only does the spin move. I mean if you step back and let him spin there is nothing much he can do after that he is not going to over power to many OT's. I'm in no way saying he is not a good player he is he is crazy fast for a DE if he does get past you your QB is toast but if you play him smart he can be shut down.

[Demonpenz]

I would take allen. He holds up better against the run

[HemiEd]

No you just have to know football and not let the media tell you who is a great player DF is overrated can he get to the QB yes but he can't stop the run. I would take Allen he is more of a play maker and has a higher motter can play the run and pass and is always knocking the ball loose he has more up side.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I find it hilarious that a very knowledgable poster in this thread asked me if I was serious.

Give me the country boy that drives the old Cadillac.

[Rain Man]

Start with post #48 in this thread, http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3663363#post3663363, and you'll see how Allen is a more productive player than Freeney. Hali, too.

[Sully]

This is pretty easy to figure out, if we are patient.
Next season, Allen will either be signed by the Chiefs or become a free agent.
I doubt the Chiefs are going to get a home town discount, so when this goes down we can measure our judgment on what the real experts, those handing out contracts, think of who is better. Not a perfect way to judge it, but as close as you can get.

[orange]

Start with post #48 in this thread, http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3663363#post3663363, and you'll see how Allen is a more productive player than Freeney. Hali, too.

And yet nobody thought he was worth a 1st and 3rd to sign him as a free agent.

This league needs more Chiefs homers as GMs, that's obvious.

[milkman]

And yet nobody thought he was worth a 1st and 3rd to sign him as a free agent.

This league needs more Chiefs homers as GMs, that's obvious.

There's only a select few players that I would give up a first and third for, and niether Freeney or Allen would be one of those.

I wouldn't do it for LJ.

I would do it for Tomlinson.
I might do it for Peppers.

A couple of others maybe.

[orange]

There's only a select few players that I would give up a first and third for, and niether Freeney or Allen would be one of those.

I wouldn't do it for LJ.

I would do it for Tomlinson.
I might do it for Peppers.

A couple of others maybe.

But that thread referenced above "clearly demonstrates" that JA is the top defensive lineman in the league ROFL. Julius Peppers - a weak #10.

[milkman]

But that thread referenced above "clearly demonstrates" that JA is the top defensive lineman in the league ROFL. Julius Peppers - a weak #10.

I think his point was that Allen might be underrated.

I doubt that Rainman would argue that Allen is better than Peppers.

[Demonpenz]

it depends alittle on what the team plays off. In that shit arrowhead calls grass freeney wouldn't be near as effective as when he is on the turf

[Rain Man]

And yet nobody thought he was worth a 1st and 3rd to sign him as a free agent.

This league needs more Chiefs homers as GMs, that's obvious.

So you disagree with math?

This league needs fewer Broncos homers as salary cap accountants.

[Mecca]

I think it is a bit funny to see people talk about Jared Allen like he's Jason Taylor or Julius Peppers.....

Where are his pro bowl appearances....where is his DPOY.....where is really any achievement that shows he's a top player at his position?

He's a good player he's not an elite player.

[orange]

So you disagree with math?

This league needs fewer Broncos homers as salary cap accountants.

I disagree with you putting emphasis on a bunch of phony, meaningless numbers. Who are the top six on that list: Jared Allen, Aaron Kampman, Aaron Schobel, Ty Warren, Justin Smith, Leonard Little.

Now there's a gallery of stars for you. They're not bad players, but I'm sure Offensive Coordinators all over the league don't stay up nights worrying about these guys. ROFL Warren gets a lot of tackles, for example, because teams are running away from Richard Seymour.

You want to know how important the official "tackles" statistic is? The Chiefs let their leading tackler Kawika Mitchell walk because he wasn't good enough to pay... just like they're going to watch Jared Allen walk next year.

P.S. This is apparently news to you, but Freeney isn't a Bronco. Bronco homerism has nothing to do with the fact that he's twice the player Jared Allen is (maybe five times the player, if you think salaries mean anything; you know, dollars and cents, the only numbers with any real meaning in pro sports).

[HemiEd]

I think it is a bit funny to see people talk about Jared Allen like he's Jason Taylor or Julius Peppers.....

Where are his pro bowl appearances....where is his DPOY.....where is really any achievement that shows he's a top player at his position?

He's a good player he's not an elite player.

Now that is just silly. We are comparing him to the guy that just got $30 million put in his bank account.

[orange]

Now that is just silly. We are comparing him to the guy that just got $30 million put in his bank account.

"Freeney, a first-round draft pick in 2002, missed the Pro Bowl this year for the first time since his rookie season. He was held to a career-low 5½ sacks while fighting shoulder and leg injuries, the only time he has been under double digits in sacks.

Freeney has 56½ sacks and forced 27 fumbles during his first five seasons with the Colts." www.nfl.com

You mean that guy, the one with four pro-bowls in five years? The guy with double-digit sacks every year he's been healthy?

[Rain Man]

I disagree with you putting emphasis on a bunch of phony, meaningless numbers. Who are the top six on that list: Jared Allen, Aaron Kampman, Aaron Schobel, Ty Warren, Justin Smith, Leonard Little.

Now there's a gallery of stars for you. They're not bad players, but I'm sure Offensive Coordinators all over the league don't stay up nights worrying about these guys. ROFL Warren gets a lot of tackles, for example, because teams are running away from Richard Seymour.

You want to know how important the official "tackles" statistic is? The Chiefs let their leading tackler Kawika Mitchell walk because he wasn't good enough to pay... just like they're going to watch Jared Allen walk next year.

P.S. This is apparently news to you, but Freeney isn't a Bronco. Bronco homerism has nothing to do with the fact that he's twice the player Jared Allen is (maybe five times the player, if you think salaries mean anything; you know, dollars and cents, the only numbers with any real meaning in pro sports).

What the list of top six guys shows me is the league's rising stars at the position, guys whose accolades are running a year or two behind their performance.

And of course the middle linebacker is going to lead the team in tackles, even if he's not the best player. Show me a middle linebacker who doesn't lead his team in tackles, and I'll show you a really, really bad middle linebacker. As Mitchell shows, a good middle linebacker does much more than that.

And as far as Freeney not being a Bronco, I know that. I just thought it bore repeating that anyone related to the Broncos is going to discount numbers because they're so used to seeing the Broncos cheat on the salary cap that numbers are meaningless to them. In terms of salary, the thing that's killing Allen is that he's only going to play 3/4ths of the year at best because he's using Leonard Little as his mentor, and he's at risk of getting suspended for the whole season if he doesn't get his alcohol problem under control. For that reason, he's certainly going to bring in far less money than other players who don't carry that risk.

[milkman]

I think it is a bit funny to see people talk about Jared Allen like he's Jason Taylor or Julius Peppers.....

Where are his pro bowl appearances....where is his DPOY.....where is really any achievement that shows he's a top player at his position?

He's a good player he's not an elite player.

I can't speak for anyone else, but speaking for myself only, I am not comparing Allen to Peppers or Taylor, except to say that he doesn't compare to those guys.

But neither does Freeney.

He's a one dimensional player that has declined at that one dimension over the last 3 years.

He only got 5 sacks last season, 3 of which came in one game against a backup tackle for the Bengals.

Freeney has become the most overrated player at his position, and by extension, the most overpaid.

I wouldn't trade Allen for Freeney straight up, Pro Bowls and media hype notwithstanding, because he just isn't as good as everone seems to think he is.

[Ultra Peanut]

Freeney is two years older than Allen. Two years and two months.

He has four seasons of 10+ sacks out of five years in the league. Allen has one out of three.

JA is more complete, and still ascending, while Freeny may be descending.He just turned 27 years old.

Start with post #48 in this thread, http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3663363#post3663363, and you'll see how Allen is a more productive player than Freeney. Hali, too.Was. In 2006. Maybe.

Is Chike Okeafor better than Dwight Freeney?

[milkman]

Freeney is two years older than Allen. Two years and two months.

He has four seasons of 10+ sacks out of five years in the league. Allen has one out of three.

He just turned 27 years old.

So he's only 27.
He's may be decending because he's a one dimensional palyer who only has one dimension (speed) to the single dimension, and LTs have realized that and adjusted their protection to neutralize that.


Is Chike Okeafor better than Dwight Freeney?

I haven't watched the 9ers and Cardinals much over the years (did he play somewhere else also?), so without seeing him play that much, I won't make that judgement.

[Ultra Peanut]

Or he may be "descending" because he had a bad year, by his standards, which followed an average year by his standards (9th in sacks, for instance), which followed a GREAT year.

[HemiEd]

I wouldn't trade Allen for Freeney straight up, Pro Bowls and media hype notwithstanding, because he just isn't as good as everone seems to think he is.

Bullseye on the reason for the thread. $30 million, is going to make Jared money, I think. Not as much as it could be, but a lot of money.

Do you agree that they will tag him next year? If he can stay clean of course.

[GoTrav]

Last three years=2004,2005,2006
Freeney
sacks 16 11 5.5
Passes Defensed 3 3 3
Tackles 31 29 26


Allen
sacks 9 11 7.5
Passes Defensed 0 5 10
Tackles 29 48 65


I see a trend, it is going in the up direction for Jared, and down for Freeney. Maybe it is the scheme they play in, but Freeney looks one demensional compared to Jared.

How often is Allen drawing double teams? Sure, he's a good player with a good motor but hardly the marked man that Freeney has been. Freeney draws more attention than Allen on any given play.

[InChiefsHeaven]

This'll be the season for Allen to make or break, at least in Kansas City. He'll only have 12 games to do it in, so it will be interesting to see if he makes the most of that time.

[crazycoffey]

Allen; because he's younger, faster, and a more complete player. But not at the same money Freeney got.... :p

[Hammock Parties]

Allen; because he's younger, faster, and a more complete player. But not at the same money Freeney got.... :p

Now Allen is faster than Freeney? What fantasy world do you live in? Freeney was clocked at 4.38 coming out of college. Allen has probably never even run a 4.5.

[crazycoffey]

Now Allen is faster than Freeney? What fantasy world do you live in? Freeney was clocked at 4.38 coming out of college. Allen has probably never even run a 4.5.


I mean football fast, not 40 times, I see allen running all over the field all the time, big motor, plays with heart, that sort of stuff.

Plus he is younger and I agree with the thread starter that he is ascending while freeney is at his peak if not already showing signs of declining.

Just my opinion of them from watching them.

[Hammock Parties]

I mean football fast, not 40 times, I see allen running all over the field all the time, big motor, plays with heart, that sort of stuff.
.

Doesn't matter. There's no way Allen is faster than Freeney in any way.

[crazycoffey]

Doesn't matter. There's no way Allen is faster than Freeney in any way.



ok

[Buehler445]

Doesn't matter. There's no way Allen is faster than Freeney in any way.

Correct. A lot of the tackles that Freeney made in the playoffs were on the right side when they ran away from him. His closeout speed is rediculous.

[Rain Man]

Doesn't matter. There's no way Allen is faster than Freeney in any way.

How about outrunning the cops at a sobriety checkpoint?

[boogblaster]

Allen here...just like the guys motor ....

[HemiEd]

Doesn't matter. There's no way Allen is faster than Freeney in any way.

Are you home yet? Do you have any video you would contribute, to the double team discussion? We have several people that say he never gets double teamed, I find that hard to believe.

[Hammock Parties]

Are you home yet? Do you have any video you would contribute, to the double team discussion? We have several people that say he never gets double teamed, I find that hard to believe.

Allen? He gets double teamed all the time. The Broncos did it quite a bit last year, and they were holding him all game long Thanksgiving night.

[HemiEd]

Allen? He gets double teamed all the time. The Broncos did it quite a bit last year, and they were holding him all game long Thanksgiving night.

Exactly, but since I had no proof, it was hard to argue. I was hoping you could provide some video proof and shut Orange up. If you read the whole thread, many posts claim that Allen is not getting double teamed but Freeney is.
Freeney is a marked man, but Allen isn't. I say BS, teams game plan for Jared Allen. He is our best Defensive player IMO.

[Buehler445]

I say BS, teams game plan for Jared Allen. He is our best Defensive player IMO.

What else are (hopefully were) they going to gameplan about with our D? Of course they gameplanned him. If they stop him and Hali, who is going to even put pressure on the QB? James Reed? In the first quarter maybe. As for the whole game, they would have to game plan him or they aren't gameplanning at all.

[HemiEd]

What else are (hopefully were) they going to gameplan about with our D? Of course they gameplanned him. If they stop him and Hali, who is going to even put pressure on the QB? James Reed? In the first quarter maybe. As for the whole game, they would have to game plan him or they aren't gameplanning at all.

Ok Sarge. You must have forgotten about Ryan Sims.

[Buehler445]

Ok Sarge. You must have forgotten about Ryan Sims.

My bad.

[OctoberFart]

Freeney is much more effective and better against the run than given credit for.

[Rain Man]

Freeney is much more effective and better against the run than given credit for.

We probably underestimate him because the only times we've ever seen him, he was the pickle loaf in a Roaf-Earth sandwich.

[InChiefsHeaven]

We probably underestimate him because the only times we've ever seen him, he was the pickle loaf in a Roaf-Earth sandwich.

Mmmmmm....sandwich... :drool:

[HemiEd]

You're not serious are you?

Yes I am, who would you pick?

[Saulbadguy]

Freeney is black. That is why he is better.

[HemiEd]

Freeney is black. That is why he is better.

Only you would say it. ROFL

[HemiEd]

It is sure good to see him back!

[Buehler445]

He definitely rocked out today. I still stand behind my answer of big ol JA!

[Bwana]

Carl better show him the money.

[HemiEd]

Carl better show him the money.
Yep, I believe him when he says he has cleaned up his act. Pay him Carl! (If LJ didn't already take all the cash.)

[HemiEd]

I would say Jared Allen is clearly out playing Freeney so far.

Anybody want to change their vote?

[HemiEd]

I don't understand how anyone can pick Allen, except out of homerism. He's a nice player, but sheesh.
ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

[KCChiefsMan]

If we had to go back in time, I'd still take Jared Allen. I mean we got JA in the 4th round! Freeney was a 1st. JA is the most bang for your buck, and quite a bang it is

[penchief]

I haven't read this entire thread but I'm going to reiterate what I have said a million times. Jared Allen is Jason Taylor. He's all over the field making plays. Forget the sacks for a moment. Compare solo tackles for DEs in 2006. Then consider forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, and then sacks. When you do that Allen is as good as they come, IMO.

[HemiEd]

I haven't read this entire thread but I'm going to reiterate what I have said a million times. Jared Allen is Jason Taylor. He's all over the field making plays. Forget the sacks for a moment. Compare solo tackles for DEs in 2006. Then consider forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, and then sacks. When you do that Allen is as good as they come, IMO.
Bingo! My point with the thread. He is our best defensive player since DT. I can't think of many defensive players on any team I would trade him for. He changes the game.

[dj56dt58]

If we had to go back in time, I'd still take Jared Allen. I mean we got JA in the 4th round! Freeney was a 1st. JA is the most bang for your buck, and quite a bang it is
and quite a buck it's gonna be...

[InChiefsHeaven]

and quite a buck it's gonna be...

Worth every penny. He's a game changer and has a motor that won't quit. He should be a good one for years to come...potential HOFer if he keeps it up.

[Chiefnj2]

Allen. Not even close.

[HemiEd]

You'd have to be a retard to pick Allen.

ROFL

That's like asking if I'd rather have Reuben Droughns or Larry Johnson. Do I want a servicable guy who can do some nice things, or do I want a gamechanging player?

In other words...

Freeney every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

You still feel that way?

The edge clearly to Freeney: 5.4 per year, vs, 3.33 per year. Have you come around yet, HemiEd?

2007
DE 93 Freeney, Dwight TCKL 10 SCK 1.5 FF 2 5 games
DE 69 Allen, Jared TCKL 17 SCK 6 FF 2 4 games

Nope, I have not changed my mind.

[L.A. Chieffan]

ALLEN SUCKS, HE CANT STOP THE RUN AND **** HIM HE CANT STAY SOBER HES TOO MUCH OF A LIABILITY CUT HIM RIGHT NOW!!!!

[Saulbadguy]

Hmm...

[MadMax]

ALLEN SUCKS, HE CANT STOP THE RUN AND **** HIM HE CANT STAY SOBER HES TOO MUCH OF A LIABILITY CUT HIM RIGHT NOW!!!!

YES CUT HIM BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE, AND PRAY TO THE GOD THEY NAMED HUARD... TAMBA,TANK AND TURK SHALL BE SACRIFICED ALSO IN THE NAME OF CARL THE UNSPOKEN ONE...HERM HAS SPOKEN, SO SHALL IT BE DONE.

[boogblaster]

JA is will and forever be better than Freakly .....

[MadMax]

Dude was in Palmer's face ALL day long.. :)

[unothadeal]

2007
DE 93 Freeney, Dwight TCKL 10 SCK 1.5 FF 2 5 games
DE 69 Allen, Jared TCKL 17 SCK 6 FF 2 4 games
Damn. I was the one who wanted to compare their stats.

[Mecca]

I mean quoting a 6 month old thread is great and all but things do change over time.....

Guys get better other guys decline...like saying a guy is dumb for something he said 2 years ago when at the time it may have been correct.

[Simply Red]

Mecca, WTF? I like you and you know this. But why are you always so cynical? Always!!!

[StcChief]

Jared now he's clean/sober and ready to play at high level.

[HemiEd]

:D

[ChiefaRoo]

I'd still rather have Freeney/

[HemiEd]

I'd still rather have Freeney/

You must be drunker than I am.

[DaneMcCloud]

I don't trust Jared, whatsoever.

He's had a history of screwing over the people that believed in him. High school coaches, colleges coaches and NFL scouts.

He was exiled to 1-AA for a reason.

He was drafted in the fourth round for a reason.

He received TWO DUI's in KC alone for a reason.

TRADE HIM.

He CANNOT be trusted.

Mark. My. Words.

[HemiEd]

This thread gets funnier as time passes.ROFL

[Rain Man]

Those were the days, my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we'd choose
We'd fight and never lose
For we were young and sure to have our way