The Chiefs are officially the Cheaps

[Hammock Parties]

Lowballing bastards.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10262309

Chiefs, Johnson in standoff over new deal

By Adam Schefter
Special to NFL.com


(July 19, 2007) -- We interrupt the wall-to-wall Michael Vick coverage that is going to last all summer to present another football story.

The biggest training camp battle isn't going to be between Kansas City quarterbacks Brodie Croyle and Damon Huard. It's going to be between Kansas City running back Larry Johnson and the Chiefs.

Over the past month, the two sides have been on vacation, not having had any contract talks since around mid-June. But each side returned this week, the first contract proposal was sent to the Chiefs, and now the game within the game begins.

Johnson is said to be dug in, entrenched, refusing to report to training camp until he has a new contract.

The Chiefs believe Johnson already has a contract, which has one year remaining on it, scheduled to pay the running back over $1.9 million this season.

Larry Johnson wants a deal similar to LaDainian Tomlinson's, but the Chiefs aren't budging.

Johnson is seeking somewhere in the vicinity of $28 million in guaranteed money, which is an easy enough number to trace. Three years ago, San Diego gave running back LaDainian Tomlinson a deal that included $21 million in bonuses. Since then, the salary cap has increased about 35 percent, which would make the guaranteed money in Tomlinson's deal worth about $28 million. At this time, Johnson is unwilling to take much less.

The Chiefs have countered with an offer of guaranteed money somewhere between $11 and $14 million, which is the bonus money paid to some of the game's other highest paid running backs, including San Francisco's Frank Gore, who received $14 million worth of guaranteed money last spring; Seattle's Shaun Alexander, who received $13.5 million worth of guaranteed money last year; Arizona's Edgerrin James, who got $11.5 million worth of guaranteed money last year; and New Orleans' Deuce McAllister, who landed $11 million worth of guaranteed money in his extension in 2005. At this time, the Chiefs are unwilling to pay much more.

Johnson feels like the $1.9 million that he's scheduled to make this season -- a $1.7 million base salary, plus a $200,000-plus escalator he triggered in his contract from past performance -- is not enough of an incentive to come in and play when a severe injury could rob him of millions more. The potential lost wages are enough to keep away Johnson.

Kansas City takes an opposite view. Johnson is scheduled to make more than $111,000 per game, wages he would lose if he has not reported. Plus, the Chiefs could opt to fine Johnson $14,000 each day he is not at training camp while also pursuing a pro-rated portion of his initial signing bonus that could amount to as much as $660,000. The potential lost wages could prove to be enough to bring back Johnson.

Johnson thinks, correctly, that salaries from premium NFL players are skyrocketing. Just last week, Indianapolis showered $30 million in guaranteed money on defensive end Dwight Freeney. This offseason, defensive stalwarts such as linebackers Adalius Thomas and Joey Porter, as well as cornerback Nate Clements, each received at least $20 million in guaranteed money. Even Kansas City tight end Tony Gonzalez commanded an $18 million signing bonus just last year.

The Chiefs know that while the "franchise" number for running backs this season is $7 million, it is projected to drop next season to $6.5 million, a number that indicates that running backs are not valued the way defensive ends and cornerbacks are.

Right now the two sides are somewhere $14 million in guaranteed money apart. Neither is in a compromising mood. Should the staredown continue, speculation about a trade will increase, as it did at Warpaintillustrated.com this week. Green Bay, Tennessee and even the New York Giants each have questions at running back that Johnson would help answer. A trade is a possibility here, an outcome that could appease all sides.

Highest-paid RBs based on guaranteed money
Player Year signed Amount (in millions)

L. Tomlinson, SD '04 $21
C. Portis, WAS '04 $17
F. Gore, SF '07 $14
S. Alexander, SEA '06 $13.5
E. James, ARI '06 $11.5
D. McAllister, NO '05 $11

But right now, each side has its stance, it is a strong one, and neither is willing to budge. But the Chiefs are not scheduled to report to training camp until July 27. The two sides have until then to continue to try working out a deal.

Kansas City already proved this offseason in its dealings with quarterback Trent Green how headstrong it can be. Johnson is said to be equally resolute, an attitude matching his physical gifts.

It sets up a showdown that could be the most compelling one of the summer.

[Wile_E_Coyote]

yawn

~Peterson, Carl Peterson

[Mile High Mania]

Not sure why anyone is shocked... this is what Carl does. I think he'll break and pay the man want he wants.

[Redrum_69]

This is going to get worse before it gets better

[JimNasium]

It's just business. There will be conflict followed by compromise followed by public displays of affection.

[SBK]

Typically when negotiating you start with a low offer.....

Hasn't anyone here ever purchased a car?

[Messier]

I've never seen a standoff like this before. This is unprecedented in football! The Chiefs are setting a new low for negotiating tactics. This further proves Carl Peterson and that front office doesn't care about winning games, just the bottom line.

Just thought I'd write Kevin Kietzman's take for him.

[Eric]

You have to ask this question.

If Johnson signs a big contract and does get injured,what does it do to the salary cap?

These ridiculous bonuses are a joke.

[Christofire]

The longer Carl waits, and the more the market gets pushed up by other guys getting bigger and bigger contracts, the tougher it will be.

I don't blame the Chiefs for trying to be smart with the cap, but you just ran Larry Johnson more times than any horse in NFL HISTORY last season. That is worth SOMETHING. I don't often side with greedy players, but I'm on LJ's side on this somewhat.

[StcChief]

Guaranteed 14M vs 28M is quite large. This has really gotten out of hand.

[Wile_E_Coyote]

Priest is waiting in anticipation, with nacho breath

[kaplin42]

Not sure why LJ thinks he is worth LT money? LT has been doing it year in and year out, he is practicaly a one man football team, and he doesn't have "personality issues" to boot. LJ can pound the rock, thats great, but its not worth $21 Mil.

[Eleazar]

Both sides know that a deal is going to get done before the season. Larry is asking for more than he thinks is possible. Carl is offering more than he thinks is possible. They will meet in the middle. He won't get a Tomlinson contract but it will be better than the others.

[the Talking Can]

LJ isn't going to sign for less than a $20 mill bonus, and he shouldn't given the market...

the Chiefs have never given one this big...not sure what will happen....

he sure as hell isn't signing for less than Gonzo got, plus this is only shot at a payday, he'll be too used up by his next contract...

[bringbackmarty]

Larry worth millions?
unreachable incentives,
give cap protection.

[Hammock Parties]

Not sure why LJ thinks he is worth LT money?

Because their production is similar?

Over the last two years LT has 4,155 totnal yards and 51 total touchdowns.

LJ has 4,292 total yards and 40 total touchdows.

[AustinChief]

Should the staredown continue, speculation about a trade will increase, as it did at Warpaintillustrated.com this week.


If you quote an article, DO NOT change it without letting the readers know. VERY poor form Clayton. You know better than that.

[bringbackmarty]

another poem from another thread about our RT situation....
heh, gaz said cock, needs a root canal, and ripped a noob.
It's too bad he's on lortab if he wasn't he could watch some boob tube.
Turley's all set to return, but does he have a bad back?,
His sole believer is an true optimist, call sign: "rustshack"
Does any of this matter, of course not, there is no doubt,
because in 2007 big Larry is going to hold out.
King Carl will trade him to the bears, or the giants, you'll see....
Our right tackle in 2008 will be drafted in rounds 1,2, or three.......

[Hammock Parties]

he sure as hell isn't signing for less than Gonzo got.

It's a slap in the face to offer him less than Gonzo. Pure BS.

[kaplin42]

Because their production is similar?

Over the last two years LT has 4,155 totnal yards and 51 total touchdowns.

LJ has 4,292 total yards and 40 total touchdows.


Sure, if you ignore everything else that LT does on the field that doesn't involve rushing stats, then yeah your right.

[Eleazar]

LJ isn't going to sign for less than a $20 mill bonus, and he shouldn't given the market...

the Chiefs have never given one this big...not sure what will happen....

he sure as hell isn't signing for less than Gonzo got, plus this is only shot at a payday, he'll be too used up by his next contract...

Yeah, I can see it this way.

It seems like Carl pays his marquee players, the people he squeezes are the tweeners. But we've never had one wanting this much money before.

Combined with what you say about how LJ will probably not have another chance for a big payday, I can see this becoming protracted on the other hand.

All these reasons are why I would have dealt him before the draft. We could have found a first and second or some such package. Running backs aren't that hard to find, and we might as well have one that doesn't have a bunch of miles on him, who matches up with the new young core of the team that is 2-3 years away.

[Hammock Parties]

Sure, if you ignore everything else that LT does on the field that doesn't involve stats, then yeah your right.

It's quite irrelelvant. Dwight Freeney had 5.5 whopping sacks last year and got 30 million guaranteed.

[Eleazar]

Sure, if you ignore everything else that LT does on the field that doesn't involve rushing stats, then yeah your right.

Just ignore it... Larry Johnson could pistol whip his girlfriend and GoChiefs would say we should make him the highest paid player in the NFL. Oh... wait...

[the Talking Can]

Yeah, I can see it this way.

It seems like Carl pays his marquee players, the people he squeezes are the tweeners. But we've never had one wanting this much money before.

Combined with what you say about how LJ will probably not have another chance for a big payday, I can see this becoming protracted on the other hand.

All these reasons are why I would have dealt him before the draft. We could have found a first and second or some such package. Running backs aren't that hard to find, and we might as well have one that doesn't have a bunch of miles on him.

I don't think we had any real solid offers though before the draft...I'm fine either way: trade or keep. Both options have pitfalls.

But you can't (not that you are) blame LJ for expecting 20+ mill...that's the market now.

[Eleazar]

I don't think we had any real solid offers though before the draft...I'm fine either way: trade or keep. Both options have pitfalls.

But you can't (not that you are) blame LJ for expecting 20+ mill...that's the market now.

Yeah, nobody is in the wrong here. Chiefs trying to save money. Johnson trying to pump up the only payday he's likely to ever get.

I don't really care if he stays or goes, honestly. We have a year or two of watching a bad football team or watching a bad football team with Larry Johnson. Is that worth $20 million? Is it worth passing up several draft picks over?

[DMAC]

LJ will sign, and he will sign for what Carl wants him to. For he is King. Bow down.

[Skyy God]

Larry worth millions?
unreachable incentives,
give cap protection.

So you're saying his agent is Master P?

[kaplin42]

It's quite irrelelvant. Dwight Freeney had 5.5 whopping sacks last year and got 30 million guaranteed.

Thanks for proving my point.

Freeney commanded double teams ALL YEAR LONG. Yeah his personal stats didnt show the numbers, but thats because by being doubled he was allowing his fellow team members to get the stats.

When LT touches the ball, the opposing D has to be scared, hell just by having LT on the field the opposing D has to account for him. LT blocks, passes, catches and rushes the ball with an equal amount of skill and talent that are unmatched in the NFL. LJ pounds that rock like a champion, but he can't block to save his life, and I have seen him drop quite a few passes out of the backfield as well, and a pass hasn't even been attempted from him.

I'm sorry man, LJ does not deserve LT money. LT spent the first several years of his career EARNING that $$ amount. LJ has been a starter for 1.5 seasons. While he is a great back, and I love watching him run, he still has a lot of work to do to earn that $$$.

[the Talking Can]

Alexander got 13 mill in 06
Portis got 17 mill in 04

one of these players has a good agent....can you guess which one?

[kaplin42]

Just ignore it... Larry Johnson could pistol whip his girlfriend and GoChiefs would say we should make him the highest paid player in the NFL. Oh... wait...

Meh, it's Friday, and I feel like arguing.

[bringbackmarty]

personally I think we should trade him if we can get a couple of firsts out of the deal. or a 1,2, and 3. In many ways we do have leverage because holding out will cost LJ money. We are at least two years away from being solid, and three extra first day picks next year will go farther than poor larry will after herm is through with him this season. Dude is going to run johnson's legs down to little nubs with our line and green quarterback.
We could let Johnson hold out this whole season, and next season too - then we should give him his deal, save his legs for when we can do something. we would have high first round picks if we do nothing with him.

[Hammock Parties]

Freeney commanded double teams ALL YEAR LONG. Yeah his personal stats didnt show the numbers, but thats because by being doubled he was allowing his fellow team members to get the stats.

Because this was the first year teams started doubling Freeney? C'mon.

His stats suffered because he was injured all year.

and a pass hasn't even been attempted from him.

If you're not even going to get the facts right, why argue with me?


While he is a great back, and I love watching him run, he still has a lot of work to do to earn that $$$.

You've got to be frickin' kidding me. Did you ignore the last two seasons?

If a friggin one-year wonder defensive tackle gets $18 million guaranteed, LJ deserves at LEAST 20.

[Eleazar]

Thanks for proving my point.

Freeney commanded double teams ALL YEAR LONG. Yeah his personal stats didnt show the numbers, but thats because by being doubled he was allowing his fellow team members to get the stats.


But you come to the conclusion that Freeney is only a 5.5 sack player if you draw what you know about players and the league from profootballreference.com or the box scores.

Anyone who saw the Colts last year saw that Freeney is still effective, he changes the way your offense has to do things, and while he may have gotten a little more money than he deserved, it isn't like he is worthless like someone who just looked at "5.5 sacks" and made a total player judgement by that number might think.

[Eleazar]

If a friggin one-year wonder defensive tackle gets $18 million guaranteed, LJ deserves at LEAST 20.

He's an end, Swami.

[bringbackmarty]

So you're saying his agent is Master P?
larry is simple,
egomaniac is he.
saves clark money.

[ChiefsCountry]

Running backs are the biggest ri$k in the NFL. Personally if I was running an NFL team, I would pay the most for a top flight OL and DL, and a franchise QB.

[Hammock Parties]

He's an end, Swami.

I wasn't talking about Freeney.

[DMAC]

If LJ could have another just under 2000 yard season THIS YEAR, ...THEN...pay the man.

Because if he can do it with no line and no weapons and every D just waiting for him to get the ball every play, then he must be the greatest ever.

[Hammock Parties]

Because if he can do it with no line and no weapons and every D just waiting for him to get the ball every play, then he must be the greatest ever.

He did it last year under FAR worse circumstances.

[ClevelandBronco]

personally I think we should trade him if we can get a couple of firsts out of the deal. or a 1,2, and 3. In many ways we do have leverage because holding out will cost LJ money. We are at least two years away from being solid, and three extra first day picks next year will go farther than poor larry will after herm is through with him this season. Dude is going to run johnson's legs down to little nubs with our line and green quarterback.
We could let Johnson hold out this whole season, and next season too - then we should give him his deal, save his legs for when we can do something. we would have high first round picks if we do nothing with him.

So he's worth two round 1 picks, but he's not worth more than $11–14 guaranteed? Dude, your own team is saying he's not a top back with this lowball BS.

[bringbackmarty]

Running backs are the biggest ri$k in the NFL. Personally if I was running an NFL team, I would pay the most for a top flight OL and DL, and a franchise QB.
Winner :toast:

[Hammock Parties]

Dude, your own team is saying he's not a top back with this lowball BS.

All the Chiefs are saying is "we're cheap."

[FAX]

If LJ could have another just under 2000 yard season THIS YEAR, ...THEN...pay the man.

Because if he can do it with no line and no weapons and every D just waiting for him to get the ball every play, then he must be the greatest ever.

A fine example of posting excellence right there.

LJ was great behind a great line but it took him 8 billion carries to get his yardage last year, which was ridiculous. Let him hold out if he wants to and we'll see what that does to his career.

FAX

[stevieray]

The Chiefs are cheap?

and people wonder why the cost keeps getting passed onto the fans...

[Hammock Parties]

LJ was great behind a great line but it took him 8 billion carries to get his yardage last year, which was ridiculous.

No one questioned LT when his average dipped under 4 YPC.....TWICE...

[luv]

No one questioned LT when his average dipped under 4 YPC.....TWICE...
You really think LJ is as good as LT?

[Hammock Parties]

You really think LJ is as good as LT?

He's not as verstaile, but LJ is a better runner IMO. I don't think LT could have done what LJ did in KC last year. He would have gotten hurt.

[DMAC]

He did it last year under FAR worse circumstances.FAR worse? What the heck are you talking about? Shields is far worse?

[Felch83]

This is why this franchise hasnt amounted to $hit...yet I still follow them religiously.

[FAX]

No one questioned LT when his average dipped under 4 YPC.....TWICE...

The "ridiculous" reference had to do with the number of carries. That wasn't LJ's fault and I don't blame him for that. However, if this franchise was serious about fielding a fearsome running game, we would be focusing on building a premier o-line ... not how many tens of millions of dollars we should pay to LJ, Mr. GoChiefs.

FAX

[kaplin42]

Because this was the first year teams started doubling Freeney? C'mon.

His stats suffered because he was injured all year.

uh huh, yeah, you're right, completely ineffective, and so not worth money. See, unlike most people, the actual coaches and GM's pay attention to what really happens in the games, not just how many times one guy touched the other guy with the ball.

If you're not even going to get the facts right, why argue with me?

Enlighten me please. I don't remember LJ trying a pass. But hey, my memory isn't infallible.

You've got to be frickin' kidding me. Did you ignore the last two seasons?

NOpe, but again only the last 1.5 seasons count, since thats how long LJ has been starting, which, oh wise an knowledgeble one of fooball, how long has LT been starting.

If a friggin one-year wonder defensive tackle gets $18 million guaranteed, LJ deserves at LEAST 20.

A one year wonder huh? Here's a challenge, watch other football games than just the Chiefs. While stats are great indicators, they don't, by any means tell the whole story.

[luv]

He's not as verstaile, but LJ is a better runner IMO. I don't think LT could have done what LJ did in KC last year. He would have gotten hurt.
Did I see where someone wrote that he still has a year left on his contract? If so, why is this an issue this year? I agree with DMAC. Let's wait and see what he does this year. I think he improved in catching, passing, etc (things that would make him more verstile), but will that happen with a different QB, newer players, etc.

[bringbackmarty]

So he's worth two round 1 picks, but he's not worth more than $11–14 guaranteed? Dude, your own team is saying he's not a top back with this lowball BS.
no, he is worth the money, just not to us right now because it would be a waste. Our team is lowballing him because it would be a waste to pay him 28 million guaranteed and run him into the ground when we are rebuilding. A team with a solid o'line and perhaps a quarterback with some experience and other weapons is a better fit for all that dough seeing as they might be closer to a championship. I have no delusions about our upcoming season, we will be hurting in many a game.
He also is troubled to say the least. I do not like him on this particular team. He can run, but that is only 1/4 of the total picture. I would rather get a good cornerback from the draft, a shiny new RB that can block and catch, and a stud left tackle that all don't have the baggage he does.
Baltimore, Chicago, New York would be a good fit for him. He will be 30 and worn out by the time the rest of our team catches up to him.

[pikesome]

If LJ could have another just under 2000 yard season THIS YEAR, ...THEN...pay the man.

Because if he can do it with no line and no weapons and every D just waiting for him to get the ball every play, then he must be the greatest ever.

If you subscribe to the conspiracy, that's what the Chiefs want. Another 2000 yard season then the team lets him walk. I see it from LJ's point of view but it's insane to pay that kind of money if KC thinks they're more than a couple of years out from a real shot at the postseason. The team could/would be saddled with his salary on the cap while they're putting the finishing touches for a SB run while he's sliding in to the tail of his career. From the Chiefs' point of view it depends on two things: 1. How long it'll take the team to contend and 2. How long before LJ declines.

[DMAC]

Did I see where someone wrote that he still has a year left on his contract? If so, why is this an issue this year? Because he can hold out, wanting a new contract. Saying he won't play unless he gets paid.

[Hammock Parties]

uh huh, yeah, you're right, completely ineffective, and so not worth money. See, unlock most people, the actual coaches and GM's pay attention to what really happens in the games, not just how many times one guy touched the other guy with the ball.

I didn't say Freeney wasn't effective. But if a guy is going to be paid that kind of money for so little actual production, LJ IS worth the same kind of jack.

Enlighten me please. I don't remember LJ trying a pass. But hey, my memory isn't infallible.

Jacksonville game.


NOpe, but again only the last 1.5 seasons count, since thats how long LJ has been starting, which, oh wise an knowledgeble one of fooball, how long has LT been starting.

LT is irrelevant in this part of the discussion. LJ DESERVES a bonus after playing for peanuts and producing ELITE results. There's no way around it.

A one year wonder huh? Here's a challenge, watch other football games than just the Chiefs. While stats are great indicators, they don't, by any means tell the whole story.

I probably watched more football than you did a year ago. Do you even realize who I'm referring to?

[luv]

Because he can hold out, wanting a new contract. Saying he won't play unless he gets paid.
So someone else will want him for more money next year after he's another year older and hasn't played? There's got to be more I'm not understanding here, so I'll shoosh.

[RustShack]

FAR worse? What the heck are you talking about? Shields is far worse?

No, but our LT and RT positions have improved, and Shields isn't as good as he used to be, Welborn wont have any problems playing RG. For the most part the line has improved from last year, Shields wasn't our whole line.

[Hammock Parties]

So someone else will want him for more money next year after he's another year older and hasn't played?

Actually there probably will be someone willing to pay him next year. There always is. If an over-the-hill RB like Edgerrin James can pull it off, so can LJ.

The issue is that he's chiseled out of destiny and should remain a Chief for life.

[pikesome]

So someone else will want him for more money next year after he's another year older and hasn't played? There's got to be more I'm not understanding here, so I'll shoosh.

It's brinkmanship. The thinking is that the Chiefs won't be willing to go without him for 10 games (he'd only hold out that much so the season gets counted as a season played). In addition to losing his production when he becomes a free agent the Chiefs would get nothing when he moved on. He's banking on the fact that him not being there will be worse than KC ponying up the cash. The Chiefs are probably thinking the same as you.

[Hammock Parties]

Here's an interesting stat.

LJ account for 43 percent of our offense last year.

LT accounted for 38 percent of San Diego's offense.

Still think he's not worth it?

[Messier]

All the Chiefs are saying is "we're cheap."


Wow, I thought you knew football.

[Hammock Parties]

Wow, I thought you knew football.

Wow, I thought you were a troll. Guess I was right.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

LMAO I swear he only tried that pass in the JAX game because he wanted LT status. Herm actually let him do it too.............

[Hammock Parties]

LMAO I swear he only tried that pass in the JAX game because he wanted LT status. Herm actually let him do it too.............

He has a good arm. We should try it more.

[Messier]

Wow, I thought you were a troll. Guess I was right.


And now I know you're very defensive too.

[luv]

Here's an interesting stat.

LJ account for 43 percent of our offense last year.

LT accounted for 38 percent of San Diego's offense.

Still think he's not worth it?
Depends. How comparable were our offenses last year?

[Hammock Parties]

And now I know you're very defensive too.

Do you seriously believe the tripe you're typing? If the Chiefs didn't think LJ was an elite back he'd have been traded long ago.

[Wile_E_Coyote]

When ever the LJ & Chiefs war gets you down. Just remember this: Ryan Sims is getting his Krispy Kreme's in Florida. Hicks is strolling after the bootleg in New York & Dante Hall is going backward in St. Louis

[Calcountry]

The Chiefs are cheap?

and people wonder why the cost keeps getting passed onto the fans...What if Carl said, o.k., heres your money, but I am passing an LJ surcharge on all tickets this year to pay for it.

approx 70k seats x8 home games = 560k seats 20 million/560,000 = $35/ticket.

Of course I would need to know the % total revenue is derived from gate receipts in order to properly weight the surcharge.

CDcox, you are good at digging stats, why dont' you come up with number to carry this excercise forward a little more.

We could have a concert and call it the live LJ aid concert to raise money to pay it.

<>

[Christofire]

>>LJ DESERVES a bonus after playing for peanuts and producing ELITE results. There's no way around it.<<

I agree. Additionally, injury aside, LJ can't afford to wait till the end of this year to get paid. If the offensive line does drop off without Shields and he has nowhere to run, everybody is going to say he isn't that good after all, and he'll get crap.

[BigRock]

Why is it more "official" when that diaper stain Schefter says it than when Whitlock says the exact same thing? Whitlock's last column on LJ was probably his source.

[Hammock Parties]

Depends. How comparable were our offenses last year?

Not comparable at all. The Chargers had more weapons and ranked #1. But it just goes to show you how valuable LJ is to the Chiefs, that's all.

[Hammock Parties]

Why is it more "official" when that diaper stain Schefter says it than when Whitlock says the exact same thing? Whitlock's last column on LJ was probably his source.

Warpaint has been reporting these numbers for over a week. :)

[Hammock Parties]

What if Carl said, o.k., heres your money, but I am passing an LJ surcharge on all tickets this year to pay for it.

approx 70k seats x8 home games = 560k seats 20 million/560,000 = $35/ticket.



Man I was thinking about this in the shower this morning. ROFL

[Stinger]

Do you seriously believe the tripe you're typing? If the Chiefs didn't think LJ was an elite back he'd have been traded long ago.

So the chiefs never hang on to non elite players? :hmmm:

Care to explain Hicks and Bartee situation?


Damnit Carl!!!!! :cuss:

[luv]

Not comparable at all. The Chargers had more weapons and ranked #1. But it just goes to show you how valuable LJ is to the Chiefs, that's all.
To the Chiefs, yes. But I dont think he should be comparing himself to LT. I'd say settle at $18-19M.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

He has a good arm. We should try it more.



Not with our current team. We need a line that can provide the protection for a gimmick play like that. We also need the talent surrounding LJ that LT has surrounding him. I don't have a problem with LJ's arm, I have a problem with the team he's trying to pull this shit off with.

[Messier]

Do you seriously believe the tripe you're typing? If the Chiefs didn't think LJ was an elite back he'd have been traded long ago.


Relax. All I've said is the Chiefs aren't being cheap here. You seem to want this to be some personal attack on you. Peterson has a huge ego, and he loves Johnson. This is part of a negotiation. Peterson nor Johnson will stay where they're at. What tripe am I typing? I'm being reasonable here and looking at history, you seem to be letting your love of LJ make you believe this is some sort of insult to him and somehow to you as well.

[Hammock Parties]

To the Chiefs, yes. But I dont think he should be comparing himself to LT. I'd say settle at $18-19M.

Why not? LJ had superior production than LT in 2005. Suddenly LT has a better year and everyone thinks LJ is dogshit? Whatever.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

To the Chiefs, yes. But I dont think he should be comparing himself to LT. I'd say settle at $18-19M.


This may piss people off, but I think he deserves more than TG. He's arguably the 2nd best RB in the game. I think he's worth the same LT signed for. The cap has changed since then.

[Skyy God]

larry is simple,
egomaniac is he.
saves clark money.

Was lead paint your favorite snack as a child?

[luv]

Why not? LJ had superior production than LT in 2005. Suddenly LT has a better year and everyone thinks LJ is dogshit? Whatever.
I would never consider giving $18-19M to dogshit. Also, look at the source. This is me you're talking to. :)

[Hammock Parties]

Not with our current team. We need a line that can provide the protection for a gimmick play like that. We also need the talent surrounding LJ that LT has surrounding him. I don't have a problem with LJ's arm, I have a problem with the team he's trying to pull this shit off with.

It's not that complicated. It's not like Larry has to sit in the pocket when he passes the ball.

[cookster50]

If you quote an article, DO NOT change it without letting the readers know. VERY poor form Clayton. You know better than that.
BAN HIM!!

[Mr. Flopnuts]

It's not that complicated. It's not like Larry has to sit in the pocket when he passes the ball.


Right. But he needs to strike the kind of fear in the hearts of db's that LT and the Chargers do. I just don't think our squad has that ability no matter how good LJ is.

[Hammock Parties]

But he needs to strike the kind of fear in the hearts of db's that LT and the Chargers do.

The only reason we didn't score a touchdown on that play was because the DB stayed with Kennison. He wasn't fooled. It has nothing to do with fear.

[FAX]

If we're basing this decision on LJ's passing ability, I'd say just release him.

FAX

[ChiefaRoo]

Not sure why LJ thinks he is worth LT money? LT has been doing it year in and year out, he is practicaly a one man football team, and he doesn't have "personality issues" to boot. LJ can pound the rock, thats great, but its not worth $21 Mil.

LJ is better than Portis.

[luv]

One more thing I'm not understanding. How can a player under contract refuse to play?

[DMAC]

No, but our LT and RT positions have improved, Let's not say that just yet. If you asked the Phins, they would say it is a wash.

[Hammock Parties]

One more thing I'm not understanding. How can a player under contract refuse to play?

He just can. It's how the system works. He won't get paid (players get paid by the game), but it works sometimes. Teams can cut players at any time, too, so it works both ways.

[DMAC]

He just can. It's how the system works. He won't get paid (players get paid by the game), but it works sometimes. Teams can cut players at any time, too, so it works both ways.
Plus, this can happen...

"Kansas City takes an opposite view. Johnson is scheduled to make more than $111,000 per game, wages he would lose if he has not reported. Plus, the Chiefs could opt to fine Johnson $14,000 each day he is not at training camp while also pursuing a pro-rated portion of his initial signing bonus that could amount to as much as $660,000. The potential lost wages could prove to be enough to bring back Johnson."

[luv]

He just can. It's how the system works. He won't get paid (players get paid by the game), but it works sometimes. Teams can cut players at any time, too, so it works both ways.
I see. It's just a pay contract. Thanks.

[bringbackmarty]

Was lead paint your favorite snack as a child?
No but your mommy's
sweet pink little pussie was
too bad it had you.

[alanm]

If you quote an article, DO NOT change it without letting the readers know. VERY poor form Clayton. You know better than that.
Responsibility isn't the norm at WPI.
And I bet he didn't get permission from the Star to redistribute this article either. :)

[Hammock Parties]

And I bet he didn't get permission from the Star to redistribute this article either. :)

This is a real dumbass post. The article didn't appear in the Star.

[Calcountry]

Man I was thinking about this in the shower this morning. ROFLwho would have guessed it, YOU, thinking of how to make LJ happy in the shower this morning.

[bringbackmarty]

wow could have fooled me I figured it was either the star or the national enquirer the way it was written with that WPI reference.

[Micjones]

Johnson isn't really asking for LT money.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I love LJ, but get real. This is a negotiation.

I'm guessing CP "lowballed" him because he thinks LJ's demands are out of whack. My guess is that CP figures somewhere in the vicinity of $18-22M guaranteed money.

LJ is great at one thing:

Toting the rock.

When he learns to catch the ****ing ball, and become a weapon out of the backfield, and when he learns (or decides he wants to ) block, THEN he deserves LT money.

I'm sorry LJ, but there's Tomlinson, and then there's everyone else.

You're part of the everyone else. And it could (and has) been aregues that you aren't the best back in THAT group. You've been a great RUNNER for the past year-and-a-half. LT has done it year in-year out.

Become a complete back, and you'll get your payday.

[Calcountry]

One more thing I'm not understanding. How can a player under contract refuse to play?You need an asterisk *






* See Terrel Owens season with the Eagles for a text book example of how to deal with overplaying your contract.

[kcxiv]

I think GoChiefs is like owning this thread. Keep it up. I agree with just about everything you say.


Pay him. If you dont, welcome to 4-12 and i wasted 250 on sunday ticket. I rather have my team compete then tank a season.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Johnson isn't really asking for LT money.

Where do you get that idea?

Larry Johnson wants a deal similar to LaDainian Tomlinson's, but the Chiefs aren't budging.

Johnson is seeking somewhere in the vicinity of $28 million in guaranteed money, which is an easy enough number to trace. Three years ago, San Diego gave running back LaDainian Tomlinson a deal that included $21 million in bonuses. Since then, the salary cap has increased about 35 percent, which would make the guaranteed money in Tomlinson's deal worth about $28 million. At this time, Johnson is unwilling to take much less.

[Deberg_1990]

When he learns to catch the ****ing ball, and become a weapon out of the backfield, and when he learns (or decides he wants to ) block, THEN he deserves LT money.


Actually, hes a better pass catcher than he gets credit for. Hes not awesume, but hes decent enough.

Hes still working on his blocking though, and im sure he would be the first to admit hes not the best at it.

[Hammock Parties]

LJ is great at one thing:

Toting the rock.

When he learns to catch the ****ing ball, and become a weapon out of the backfield.

I just get more and more pissed off everytime I see this.

LJ has 74 receptions over the last two seasons.

LT has 107.

Is there a difference? Yeah. But it's not like LJ has ZERO skills in the passing game. I think he's quite good. He came out of college rated as a very good pass receiver. He just loses concentration sometimes and drops the ball. By reports this offseason he's been working on it.

[luv]

Where do you get that idea?

Larry Johnson wants a deal similar to LaDainian Tomlinson's, but the Chiefs aren't budging.

Johnson is seeking somewhere in the vicinity of $28 million in guaranteed money, which is an easy enough number to trace. Three years ago, San Diego gave running back LaDainian Tomlinson a deal that included $21 million in bonuses. Since then, the salary cap has increased about 35 percent, which would make the guaranteed money in Tomlinson's deal worth about $28 million. At this time, Johnson is unwilling to take much less.
I thought maybe he was being sarcastic, and that he meant to put a question mark behind it.

[Hammock Parties]

If you dont, welcome to 4-12 and i wasted 250 on sunday ticket. I rather have my team compete then tank a season.

The only thing getting my ass in a seat at Arrowhead this season is Larry Johnson.

[Fire Me Boy!]

I just get more and more pissed off everytime I see this.

LJ has 74 receptions over the last two seasons.

LT has 107.

Is there a difference? Yeah. But it's not like LJ has ZERO skills in the passing game. I think he's quite good. He came out of college rated as a very good pass receiver. He just loses concentration sometimes and drops the ball. By reports this offseason he's been working on it.
Not arguing, just curious... do you have any stats comparing number of DROPPED passes?

[Fire Me Boy!]

The only thing getting my ass in a seat at Arrowhead this season is Larry Johnson.
I would have guessed vasoline.

[Calcountry]

Relax. All I've said is the Chiefs aren't being cheap here. You seem to want this to be some personal attack on you. Peterson has a huge ego, and he loves Johnson. This is part of a negotiation. Peterson nor Johnson will stay where they're at. What tripe am I typing? I'm being reasonable here and looking at history, you seem to be letting your love of LJ make you believe this is some sort of insult to him and somehow to you as well.uh, heheh he h ehhehe Hey Beavis, he said Peterson LOVES JOHNSON, hehehh ehhehhheh

yeha yeah, and he said peters son is huge. ah ehhehheheheh

[Hammock Parties]

Not arguing, just curious... do you have any stats comparing number of DROPPED passes?

According to Stats, Inc. Larry dropped five passes last year. I have no idea what the number is for Tomlinson.

[keg in kc]

Hi kids. Welcome to Remedial Negotiations 001.

[kcxiv]

The only thing getting my ass in a seat at Arrowhead this season is Larry Johnson.
I think our d is going to be pretty damn good, but without LJ, we are going to be the 2006 Raiders. Its going to be that bad.

[bringbackmarty]

If we kept him I would be happy with around 22 million in guarantees at the most. anyting more is overpaying him. Make the rest up in performance incentives. more than 30 total td's 3 mil, more than 2,000 rushing or 2,500 total yds 3 mil, more than 12 recieving td's 3 mil. actually blocks worth a shit, causes no problems off the field, attends all meetings and is awake and attentive, doesn't hold out, keeps his playbook, and doesn't pistol whip his old lady 3 mil. if he reaches three of those we might even win a super bowl.

[Fire Me Boy!]

According to Stats, Inc. Larry dropped five passes last year. I have no idea what the number is for Tomlinson.
I don't know that I believe that number. I do admit, however, that some of those balls that he didn't catch were clearly not his fault... Trent threw some turds last year.

[Calcountry]

I think GoChiefs is like owning this thread. Keep it up. I agree with just about everything you say.


Pay him. If you dont, welcome to 4-12 and i wasted 250 on sunday ticket. I rather have my team compete then tank a season.Unless they think they have somehow learned to evaluate talent and draft better after a tank job, yeah, I agree.

[Calcountry]

Heck, LJ need gas just like the rest of us FOO. That alone entitles him to a higher Bonus. Peterson is living in the past. He still thinks gas is 50 cent

[bringbackmarty]

this also is exactly how I figured it would go with larry after the green thing. Carl is tough and doesn't like to overpay. His ego is huge after bending miami over his knee, and doesn't want another priest.

[Calcountry]

According to Stats, Inc. Larry dropped five passes last year. I have no idea what the number is for Tomlinson.Well, there is the answer, just dock him a million dollars per dropped pass.

[kcxiv]

Unless they think they have somehow learned to evaluate talent and draft better after a tank job, yeah, I agree.
I hope they do know how to draft an elite one if they arent ready to pony up to LJ. Who was our last running back drafted before LJ that was worth a ****? Barry Word? I dont even know if we drafted him, it was to long ago, and i am to lazy to check.

[Calcountry]

Well, there is the answer, just dock him a million dollars per dropped pass.Think that bitch could learn to catch a friggen screen pass?

[OnTheWarpath15]

I just get more and more pissed off everytime I see this.

LJ has 74 receptions over the last two seasons.

LT has 107.

Is there a difference? Yeah. But it's not like LJ has ZERO skills in the passing game. I think he's quite good. He came out of college rated as a very good pass receiver. He just loses concentration sometimes and drops the ball. By reports this offseason he's been working on it.

Get pissed all you want. And pick and choose how you want to spin the stats. I'm asking for LJ to prove he's in LT's class before he's given LT money. Tomlinson is the poster child for consistency. He's done it for SIX straight years.

LT has never registered LESS than 51 receptions in a season. He's gone for as many as 100 and 79. He AVERAGES 66 catches a year.

Meanwhile, LJ has topped out at 41.

LJ is averaging 37 catches over his 2 1/2 years.

I'd say that is a significant difference.

14 RB's had more receptions last year than LJ. FOURTEEN.

If he wants to be paid like the best, he's gotta do better than that....

[Hammock Parties]

I dont even know if we drafted him, it was to long ago, and i am to lazy to check.

We didn't draft Word, but we drafted Okoye. That's still 20 years ago. :shake:

[Hammock Parties]

14 RB's had more receptions last year than LJ. FOURTEEN.

If he wants to be paid like the best, he's gotta do better than that....

Consider the offense he plays in. Curtis Martin averaged about 40 catches per year under Herm. This isn't DV's offense.

I'll be satisfied if he just makes the most of the passes thrown his way.

[OnTheWarpath15]

According to Stats, Inc. Larry dropped five passes last year. I have no idea what the number is for Tomlinson.

I'm sorry, but I'm calling shenanigans.

And I'd bet we could argue the difference between what STATS, Inc considers a "dropped pass" and what we would consider a ball he SHOULD have caught......

[El Jefe]

LJ isn't going to sign for less than a $20 mill bonus, and he shouldn't given the market...

the Chiefs have never given one this big...not sure what will happen....

he sure as hell isn't signing for less than Gonzo got, plus this is only shot at a payday, he'll be too used up by his next contract...



I agree with you Can, a lot of good points there. I agree his only shot at big time money is now, because if he has a few more seasons of abuse he isnt gonna be worth much no matter what kind of numbers he puts up. I wouldnt want to get the crap beat out of me like he has for average money, I would want to be up there with the big paydays also. He is looking out for himself, like everyone has said it's a business and his body is his investment.

[FAX]

I'm sorry, but I'm calling shenanigans.

And I'd bet we could argue the difference between what STATS, Inc considers a "dropped pass" and what we would consider a ball he SHOULD have caught......

It's funny how certain plays are permanently burned into your brainpan. I have several in which LJ is drifting into the flat and Trent passes his direction after going through his checkdowns and finding nothing worthwhile downfield. LJ is wide open, but doesn't turn his head or make any kind of play at the ball whatsoever. I'm thinking "Randy Moss".

FAX

[OnTheWarpath15]

Consider the offense he plays in. Curtis Martin averaged about 40 catches per year under Herm. This isn't DV's offense.

I'll be satisfied if he just makes the most of the passes thrown his way.

Consider the offenses that the 14 above him played in as well......

Steven Jackson
Reggie Bush
Brian Westbrook
Kevin Jones
Frank Gore
Tiki Barber
LaDainian Tomlinson
Ladell Betts
Michael Pittman
Maurice Jones-Drew
Ahman Green
Mewelde Moore
Kevin Faulk
Chester Taylor


I'll give you Jackson, Bush and Tomlinson being part of high-flying offenses.

But there are SEVERAL names there that LJ has NO BUSINESS being behind.

[beer bacon]

I love LJ, but get real. This is a negotiation.

I'm guessing CP "lowballed" him because he thinks LJ's demands are out of whack. My guess is that CP figures somewhere in the vicinity of $18-22M guaranteed money.

LJ is great at one thing:

Toting the rock.

When he learns to catch the ****ing ball, and become a weapon out of the backfield, and when he learns (or decides he wants to ) block, THEN he deserves LT money.

I'm sorry LJ, but there's Tomlinson, and then there's everyone else.

You're part of the everyone else. And it could (and has) been aregues that you aren't the best back in THAT group. You've been a great RUNNER for the past year-and-a-half. LT has done it year in-year out.

Become a complete back, and you'll get your payday.

This reminds me of something. I had a dream last night. I don't remember much of it. The one part I do remember involved LJ totally botching a pass out of the backfield. I think about the Chiefs way too much.

[beer bacon]

Get pissed all you want. And pick and choose how you want to spin the stats. I'm asking for LJ to prove he's in LT's class before he's given LT money. Tomlinson is the poster child for consistency. He's done it for SIX straight years.

LT has never registered LESS than 51 receptions in a season. He's gone for as many as 100 and 79. He AVERAGES 66 catches a year.

Meanwhile, LJ has topped out at 41.

LJ is averaging 37 catches over his 2 1/2 years.

I'd say that is a significant difference.

14 RB's had more receptions last year than LJ. FOURTEEN.

If he wants to be paid like the best, he's gotta do better than that....

If LJ can average 40 catches a year at 10 ypc, then I will be very happy.

[HemiEd]

At what point do athletes start honoring their contracts? He signed the ****ing thing, now honor it, simple as that.
Let the Kolby Smith era begin, ****ing greedy *******.

[beer bacon]

At what point do athletes start honoring their contracts? He signed the ****ing thing, now honor it, simple as that.
Let the Kolby Smith era begin, ****ing greedy *******.

That just isn't the way the NFL works. I am sure plenty of players would guarantee their contracts if their employers did the same.

[tk13]

Right now the two sides are somewhere $14 million in guaranteed money apart. Neither is in a compromising mood. Should the staredown continue, speculation about a trade will increase, as it did at Warpaintillustrated.com this week.

I have never said anything, because I think it's fine if you post articles and all that, even when people complain about WPI. But this is 100% spam. You should receive at least a temporary ban for this, or have your thread privileges revoked. I don't know why, that hacks me off for some reason, if I was a writer and saw you did this to my article I'd be furious. Complete lack of respect for your writing peers. You know better.

[HemiEd]

That just isn't the way the NFL works. I am sure plenty of players would guarantee their contracts if the their organizations did the same.

I am very aware of that, and thanks. :thumb: However, I still don't like employees dictating things, can't ****ing stand it. So, I feel the way I do.

[Hammock Parties]

I don't know why, that hacks me off for some reason, .

Jeez. It's all in good fun. People whined about my speculation the other and day now Schefter mentions it in an article, so I put that in there as a joke. Sorry it pissed you off.

[the Talking Can]

Complete lack of respect for your writing peers. You know better.


no he doesn't, that's why he works at WPI....

[StcChief]

At what point do athletes start honoring their contracts? He signed the ****ing thing, now honor it, simple as that.
Let the Kolby Smith era begin, ****ing greedy *******.
Yep.
Peddle LJ to East Coast team so he can hang closer with his rappers and ho's.

[HemiEd]

Yep.
Peddle LJ to East Coast team so he can hang closer with his rappers and ho's.

That is where he really wants to be anyway, soon, before he loses all his street cred.
But I would laugh my ass off if he ended up wearing the big G, but green and gold, instead of Red and Blue. LMAO

[BigRedChief]

UHHHH Tony G got a new contract at top $ this off season. It's most of the time they are cheap azz bastages but not all the time.

I say trade him anyway. We are just wasting his talent. Might as well get a 1st rounder and 3rd for King Carl to blow instead overpaying a LJ when we don't need his talents for 2-3 years when this team is ready to make a run at a Super Bowl. Who knows if he will still be the LJ of today then?

[Hammock Parties]

**** all of you.

[Redrum_69]

Trade LJ for future draft picks. That will free up cap space.

LJ whines too much. LJ cant catch and pass like Tomlinson.

LJ will forever be a running back...all run..no blocking, passing, catching.

LJ is all memememememem

Just trade LJ for some really good draft picks next year and give the ball to Kolby

[Redrum_69]

What if LJ gets hurt this season after his big contract payoff...then what...he'll be another Priest and eat doritos..only this time LJ will be in New York with jay-Z tagteaming Beyonce like a pair of fingercuffs listening to rap hiphop music and raising pitbulls.

trade LJ now before he gets hurt and ruins our future supeer bowl chances...

[Hammock Parties]

What if LJ gets hurt this season after his big contract payoff...then what...

http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/5435/chickenkchx9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

What if he doesn't get hurt and sets the all-time single season rushing record? Then I'll bet you'd wish we had kept him.

[Redrum_69]

http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/5435/chickenkchx9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

What if he doesn't get hurt and sets the all-time single season rushing record? Then I'll bet you'd wish we had kept him.


hell no...I'll be ecstatic. That would mean we'll get some really good draft picks for compensation..

[Redrum_69]

LJ will forever be in LT's shadow...

[OnTheWarpath15]

**** all of you.

Classy.

I don't understand why this is a big deal. Negotiation 101.

They'll meet somewhere around that $18-22M mark, or LJ will hold out.

I don't know how any other GM in the league would handle this much differently. I guess Carl's just supposed to give him $28 million guaranteed, just because he asked for it?

You wanna get paid like the best, then you should perform like the best, in ALL facets of the game. It's not that difficult a concept to understand.

[Hammock Parties]

LJ will forever be in LT's shadow...

How do you explain 2005?

[HIChief]

I'm going to throw this out there for you all to chew on: If the Chiefs are a season or two away from a legit Superbowl run, then how about letting LJ sit out the season if he wants to? Use Michael Bennet, and develop that young talent that was tearing up NFL Europe this Spring? Renegotiate Johnson's contract when it's up, head into the 2008 season loaded for bear at running back behind what will by then be a rebuilt line? It'll ease the wear and tear on LJ, teach him a thing or two, and allow the Head Coach to work on putting the other pieces of the team together without the distraction of a running back controversy this year.

[Hammock Parties]

I don't understand why this is a big deal. Negotiation 101.


Negotiations have been proceeding for months now. If this is where the Chiefs truly have arrived, it's pathetic. The Colts got their superstar signed this offseason already, why haven't we?

If the Chiefs are only offering 14 million at this point, where did they START? Did they actually come to the negotiating table in the early stages and offer LJ a contract with 5-7 million in guaranteed money? That's a slap in the face. :shake:

[Hammock Parties]

If the Chiefs are a season or two away from a legit Superbowl run, then how about letting LJ sit out the season if he wants to? Use Michael Bennet, and develop that young talent that was tearing up NFL Europe this Spring?

Won't work for three reasons -

1. Bennett would get hurt, leaving Kolby friggin' Smith to carry the load.
2. Derrick Ross is in no shape to receive extended playing time this year. He took a big load in NFL Europe.
3. Brodie Croyle NEEDS LJ, otherwise his development is going to be stunted.

[StcChief]

I'm going to throw this out there for you all to chew on: If the Chiefs are a season or two away from a legit Superbowl run, then how about letting LJ sit out the season if he wants to? Use Michael Bennet, and develop that young talent that was tearing up NFL Europe this Spring? Renegotiate Johnson's contract when it's up, head into the 2008 season loaded for bear at running back behind what will by then be a rebuilt line? It'll ease the wear and tear on LJ, teach him a thing or two, and allow the Head Coach to work on putting the other pieces of the team together without the distraction of a running back controversy this year.

That is a good idea. Take the hit this year....
But a 4-12 season will further increase empty seats
and Carl / Clark won't like that.

Franchise him use him to learn and catch/block run 10-20 times a game.
Get K.Smith / Bennett or someon else to run.

[Skip Towne]

The only thing getting my ass in two seats at Arrowhead this season is Larry Johnson.
Fixed it.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Jeez. It's all in good fun. People whined about my speculation the other and day now Schefter mentions it in an article, so I put that in there as a joke. Sorry it pissed you off.
This pisses me off more than it being there. I actually didn't think anything about it, but you call your journalistic ethics into question when you, as a journalist, make alterations to a story you are quoting.

Not cool, in my book of journalism.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Negotiations have been proceeding for months now. If this is where the Chiefs truly have arrived, it's pathetic. The Colts got their superstar signed this offseason already, why haven't we?

If the Chiefs are only offering 14 million at this point, where did they START? Did they actually come to the negotiating table in the early stages and offer LJ a contract with 5-7 million in guaranteed money? That's a slap in the face. :shake:

Do you have proof that negotiations have been going on for months?

This is the first time I've seen solid numbers about what has been offered.

Don't you think that if LJ was offered less than $10M we would have heard about it?

You're assuming he's been offered anything before this.......

[Redrum_69]

Adj. 1. stunted - inferior in size or quality; "scrawny cattle"; "scrubby cut-over pine"; "old stunted thorn trees"

[ChiefsCountry]

If we could screw the Cowgirls out of thier two firsts next year, I would be all over that in a heartbeat. Doubt it would happen but that would help this team alot.

[Redrum_69]

We could draft a running back next year and they'd already be better than LJ.

[HemiEd]

**** all of you.

You would know nothing about that, by your own admission.

[Hammock Parties]

Do you have proof that negotiations have been going on for months?

Michael Smith of ESPN first reported that LJ wanted some absurd figure back in APRIL. In fact, his initial demand was $34 million guaranteed. Warpaint has covered it all offseason long and Whitlock had his "holdout" column about a month ago.

[Hammock Parties]

We could draft a running back next year and they'd already be better than LJ.

Now you're just trolling.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Michael Smith of ESPN first reported that LJ wanted some absurd figure back in APRIL. In fact, his initial demand was $34 million guaranteed. Warpaint has covered it all offseason long and Whitlock had his "holdout" column about a month ago.

That doesn't mean Carl has offered him a goddamned thing......

So what's your point? He wanted an asinine number back in April, and he wants an asinine number now.

That has nothing to do with whether or not the sides have actually been negotiating......

And even then, it doesn't matter. He'll get whatever CP decides to give him.

Not what the fans determine his value to be.

[Hammock Parties]

That has nothing to do with whether or not the sides have actually been negotiating......


Fine. Believe me. Or don't. The Chiefs have been negotiating with LJ since April. It's a fact.

[Rasputin]

Even if we trade LJ for a top pick next year and get "Our" guy, a blockbuster trade, the player or players we draft to replace LJ are going to expect $$$$$$$$$$$$$ Still looking at paying $$$$$$$$$$$$
I'm just saying $$$$$$ talks
just saying thats all

LJ is worth the money IMO.

[suds79]

I couldn't disagree more with the take that the Chiefs have now become the cheaps.

It's a good thing that "Lost in the mall" isn't running this franchise.

Handing out a big, fat, long-term contact to a guy who just broke the single season rushing attempts record would be a bad play. The statistics show that he won't last much longer in this league. And that's for production and/or health.

And I hope people are not going with the ole "LJ earned the right to be paid" because that's ridiculous. Yes he's done an outstanding job. But contacts are not about what you've done. Who cares about that now? They're about what you're going to do for the team in the future.

[Rasputin]

I don't think the Chiefs are cheap at all theyv'e paid good players good money, Trent Green got a hell of a deal, Preist Holmes got paid
Preist Holmes held out for much of preseason then he signed just before the season started (I think 3rd preseason game?)
The Cheifs are useually close to the top of the Cap room. (AM I RIGHT?)


If LJ doesn't get signed before week one against Houston Texasses Then I will worry about it. Right now I am not worried about him getting signed and into training camp. If he misses training camp then that just means he won't be on HBO Hard KNOCKS.

[plbrdude]

I couldn't disagree more with the take that the Chiefs have now become the cheaps.

It's a good thing that "Lost in the mall" isn't running this franchise.

Handing out a big, fat, long-term contact to a guy who just broke the single season rushing attempts record would be a bad play. The statistics show that he won't last much longer in this league. And that's for production and/or health.

And I hope people are not going with the ole "LJ earned the right to be paid" because that's ridiculous. Yes he's done an outstanding job. But contacts are not about what you've done. Who cares about that now? They're about what you're going to do for the team in the future.


he has earned the right to be paid. but 34 mil guarenteed is a touch high for me. i'm sure people could give a thousand reasons why not, but i'd like to see some performance based contracts written. a nice base number with some really good incentives written in.