Royals could be major players at trade deadline

[Mr. Laz]

Holding all the cards

Royals GM has valuable pieces to deal at deadline

Posted: Friday July 20, 2007 11:34AM; Updated: Friday July 20, 2007 12:42PM
www.cnnsi.com


Octavio Dotel didn't make his first appearance since May 23, but he has been dominant (24 Ks in 20 IP) since then.

Maybe Dayton Moore, the still-new general manager of the suddenly surprising Royals, makes a stunner of a deal in the next week and a half before the trade deadline. Maybe he quietly swaps one minor part of his team for an unknown part of someone else's. Maybe he just sits and does nothing.

Whatever happens before the July 31 deadline, though, you'd better believe this about Moore and the Royals this trade season: They're players. They have some chips. And what they do, or what they don't do, matters. The question is: What should they do?

The Royals have one piece in this game, Octavio Dotel, who represents maybe the most coveted type of player in this summer's trade market: a hard-throwing, experienced and relatively cheap reliever. They have another, Reggie Sanders, who would provide someone with a proven bat for a run at the pennant, another valuable commodity.

They have other players, too, that Moore may be willing to deal and that some team might be willing to take. Yet even though he has some currency in this game, Moore is not pants-on-fire ready to trade. He has to weigh the effects of landing a player or two that could help the team in the future against the effects of breaking up a team that is just beginning to find its footing. He has to think about changing course while not going off course.

It won't be easy, now that the offers are beginning to roll in. But nothing's ever easy for the Royals. "We'll listen to anybody. We're always going to try to be aggressive," Moore says. "We'll listen. But if we don't make a move, we don't make a move. That doesn't mean we're not getting better."

The reason the Royals are in this position in the first place is that they are a better team, from top to bottom, from the front office to the dugout. They're probably much better than anyone could have guessed. Certainly, they're much better than anyone could have envisioned six weeks ago.

At the beginning of June the Royals were 19-35. Many of their youngsters -- specifically, supposed phenom Alex Gordon -- were terrible. Some veterans, such as Sanders, were hurt, and most everybody else was struggling. The Royals had a .248 batting average, a .319 on-base percentage and a 4.82 ERA in the first two months of the season.

Since then, though, they've gone 22-18. They've hit .275 over the past six weeks and their on-base percentage is .333. Their pitchers have a 4.06 ERA in that span, an improvement of more than 3/4 of a run. Gordon -- with a .185 average and a .301 OBP before June 1 -- is hitting .303 since, with a .358 OBP.

All that has put Moore and the Royals in that awkward in-between land. The best part of their team is the bullpen; do they want to break that up, trading Dotel, weakening them for the rest of the season? Sanders is just now coming back from a pulled hamstring; do they want to trade him and forego the chance of finally getting the offense going?

It's easy to tell the Royals to take care of the future because they're not going anywhere this year. But what would sacrificing the rest of '07 tell this young team that's just now beginning to believe? Would the Royals be able to handle a precipitous fall in the second half? Would they understand? Would the people in Kansas City get it?

"The last six weeks we've been playing much better baseball. We've been more consistent," says starting pitcher Gil Meche, whose hot start helped put the Royals in this position. "It's a big step for us to get the young guys confident."

It's difficult to see which way Moore will proceed at the trade deadline, but the presence of Meche on this team, in a lot of ways, might be a clue. Moore, remember, stunned many in the baseball community by signing the free-agent right-hander to a five-year, $55 million contract last winter. Lots of teams liked Meche, but no one expected him to get $55 million. And no one figured the Royals to be the team to give it to him.

But Moore, after some careful deliberation with his scouts, took the chance, and so far it has paid off. Meche was 3-1 with a 1.91 ERA in his first nine starts. He has slid a little since, but he's still the team ace. "I think signing me was a huge statement, for the whole city, the owner, and for Dayton," Meche says.

Moore has been a bit of a gambler when it has come to building this team. ("Where we are," he says, "you've got to take risks.") But Moore is a smart gambler, one who prepares and uses all the information he can gather before making a decision. He's using everything at his disposal to make this team better, building up the Royals' presence in Latin America, re-working the scouting and development system and dipping into the free-agent pool.

Now comes another important way to improve his team: the midseason trade market. This, though, might be the toughest way. Mid-July is no time for careful deliberation and fact-finding. This time of year, July 31 looms large for every general manager. "During the offseason," Moore says, "you have a chance to be more proactive. Then, you don't have a deadline."

So, trade Dotel for some prospects and risk wrecking the best part of his young team? Swap Sanders for a young player and give up a good bat and a steadying presence? Deal or no deal? Gamble or play it safe?

Moore isn't saying. A good gambler never does.

[Splat420]

Royals and major players in the same title classic.

[Demonpenz]

Sazuki, pujols, maybe the underachieving beltran coming back?

[Chiefspants]

I'm thinking Huber, Dotel, and Brown are going

[KCChiefsMan]

I decided to try out some sports online betting tonight and I put money on these Royals and hey! they're up 4-1!!!!

[Mr. Laz]

Royals and major players in the same title classic.
the Royals having a headline at all is a real improvement. PBJ PBJ

[Mecca]

The Royals told the Dodgers they wanted James Loney or Matt Kemp for Dotel and got laughed at by the Dodgers....

[Coach]

The Royals told the Dodgers they wanted James Loney or Matt Kemp for Dotel and got laughed at by the Dodgers....

Heh, no. More of like the Dodgers are not interested in improving their pen. If they wanted Dotel that bad, they'd have to part one of those two.

[Mecca]

Heh, no. More of like the Dodgers are not interested in improving their pen. If they wanted Dotel that bad, they'd have to part one of those two.

They'd be completely retarded to trade a top young player like that for a guy who's on a 1 year deal with not a great past....

I wouldn't trade either of those guys for Dotel either.

[Chiefspants]

I'm guessing at least one move will happen

[Blair Thomas]

When did Kansas City get a baseball team?

[Coach]

They'd be completely retarded to trade a top young player like that for a guy who's on a 1 year deal with not a great past....

I wouldn't trade either of those guys for Dotel either.

Your loss then. Dotel is probably the best choice in the market thus far.

[kcfanXIII]

dotel would be the only pitcher i would deal, but aside from gordon, butler, TJ, and teahen, i really think any other position player is available.

[Thig Lyfe]

I say trade Sweeney for Dontrelle Willis!!!!

[Bob Dole]

Bob Dole would be perfectly content to see them stay put and let the team build some sort of chemistry. They're actually starting to look and play like a team...it might be prudent not to **** with it.

[SCTrojan]

dotel would be the only pitcher i would deal, but aside from gordon, butler, TJ, and teahen, i really think any other position player is available.

I agree with this sentiment. Dotel won't be in a Royals uniform for long, so getting something for him wouldn't be a bad thing.

It would change the bullpen dynamics, so I can understand why Moore would proceed carefully.

[Mr. Laz]

Bob Dole would be perfectly content to see them stay put and let the team build some sort of chemistry. They're actually starting to look and play like a team...it might be prudent not to **** with it.
good point ....


Dotel, Sanders and emile brown are the only guys i want them to consider trading. All 3 of those guys are gone after this year.


oh ... and sweeney, i'd trade him for a good lookin' ball girl right now.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

When did Kansas City get a baseball team?
When Dayton Moore was hired.

[KcMizzou]

I never knew Bob Dole was a Royal's fan.

Cool.

[Bob Dole]

I never knew Bob Dole was a Royal's fan.

Cool.

Bob Dole tries...but they sure do make it hard a lot of the time.

[KevB]

The Royals told the Dodgers they wanted James Loney or Matt Kemp for Dotel and got laughed at by the Dodgers....

The Royals have the leverage right now as sellers of arguably the most attractive player on the market. Of course Dayton will start by asking for the moon....maybe one of the 8-10 teams that want Dotel will go for it.

[KcMizzou]

Bob Dole tries...but they sure do make it hard a lot of the time.Understood.

[WilliamTheIrish]

The Royals told the Dodgers they wanted James Loney or Matt Kemp for Dotel and got laughed at by the Dodgers....

That's what good GM's do. Ask for more than what you'll get. As the article states, it's up to Moore. The Dodgers want Dotel. They can 'laugh at' the Royals all they want. You don't want to lose a division pennant or WC because you didn't pick up a guy to set up or close.

FTR, if I were the Dodgers GM I wouldn't trade either of those guys.
Right now. But the chance to win now can make a big difference.

[Mecca]

The Dodgers already have a a good setup guy and closer....Dotel would help them but he isn't enough of a need for them to trade those guys.

[tk13]

The good thing is we know Dayton will be aggressive. Everybody laughs at those Dodgers rumors but he needs to keep banging on that door. There are so many teams looking for any kind of pitching help, Dotel is going to have value. I've seen more than one person say Eric Gagne might get dealt for a top-flight prospect like a Kemp. If he can get a good prospect Dotel should get us something. I wouldn't be afraid to trade almost anyone in that bullpen except for Soria and maybe Greinke if people are willing to give something up. Maybe the market won't actually play out that way, but we'll see.

[KcMizzou]

The good thing is we know Dayton will be aggressive. Everybody laughs at those Dodgers rumors but he needs to keep banging on that door. There are so many teams looking for any kind of pitching help, Dotel is going to have value. I've seen more than one person say Eric Gagne might get dealt for a top-flight prospect like a Kemp. If he can get a good prospect Dotel should get us something. I wouldn't be afraid to trade almost anyone in that bullpen except for Soria and maybe Greinke if people are willing to give something up. Maybe the market won't actually play out that way, but we'll see.I'd really hate to see them give up Greinke. Better be a hell of a prospect.

I heard a guy on the radio the other day... said Greinke, with his... issues... might not be nearly as good in a big city. (I think he was talking about Chicago.. and the Cubs)

Interesting thought... I think he was talking about anxiety. I'm not sure how you'd take the mound for any major league team, if that was your issue, though.

[Chiefspants]

I think its too early to deal Greinke, he just has so many weapons and is so young...

[WilliamTheIrish]

The Dodgers already have a a good setup guy and closer....Dotel would help them but he isn't enough of a need for them to trade those guys.

I'm aware the Dodgers have a closer and set up guy. But Dotel would be cheap and he would be kept out of the hands of the division opponents. And in a division as balanced as the NL West....

Like I said, I wouldn't trade Loney or Kemp either. Funny we're talking about this, because it I read an interesting fact related to Dodgers and pitching reading the LA Times last week. It's not related to this topic, but an interesting fact.

BTW, of the 17 pitchers taken by the Dodgers in the first round or the supplemental first round of the amateur draft since 1979, only Darren Dreifort and Chad Billingsley have reached the majors. ...

That's pretty wild for a franchise that at one time produced one great pitcher after another.

[Coach]

The Dodgers already have a a good setup guy and closer....Dotel would help them but he isn't enough of a need for them to trade those guys.

I disagree. You gotta have good arms, especially in September and October.

The cost of winning is steep. If the Dodgers want to win, they're gonna have to part away their best or 2nd best prospect.

[Chiefspants]

Also, there are other teams interested in Dotel

[Coach]

Also, there are other teams interested in Dotel

That is correct. Interested teams include the Dodgers, Indians, Tigers, Braves and Red Sox.

[kcbronco]

Love to have Kemp for Dotel and yes the Dodgers are "desperate" to finally get back to the Series so I can actually see this happening. Can't trade Grienke unless it's for a ton like the Saltaaaaaaaaaa catcher from Atlanta plus a pitching prospect. Grienke is a good cheap option for the Royals until 2010.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Love to have Kemp for Dotel and yes the Dodgers are "desperate" to finally get back to the Series so I can actually see this happening. Can't trade Grienke unless it's for a ton like the Saltaaaaaaaaaa catcher from Atlanta plus a pitching prospect. Grienke is a good cheap option for the Royals until 2010.

Dotel for Saltamachia would be beautiful.

[VonneMarie]

Dotel for Saltamachia would be beautiful.
I think he was placed on the DL today.

[Coach]

I think he was placed on the DL today.

No, he's referring to this guy from Atlanta.

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=457454

You're thinking of the pitcher from Washington that went to the DL.

http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=421004

I can see how it can be confusing though, since their last names.

[WilliamTheIrish]

No, he's referring to this guy from Atlanta.

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=457454

You're thinking of the pitcher from Washington that went to the DL.

http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=421004

I can see how it can be confusing though, since their last names.

Yup.

[VonneMarie]

No, he's referring to this guy from Atlanta.

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=457454

You're thinking of the pitcher from Washington that went to the DL.

http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=421004

I can see how it can be confusing though, since their last names.
Weird names. Salta-whatever is a pretty good player. It would be nice to get him.

[HemiEd]

To borrow a line from Sterling Sharpe. "I like what I am seein'."

[Coach]

Weird names. Salta-whatever is a pretty good player. It would be nice to get him.

I agree. I like his numbers for a 22 year old player.

DeJesus LF
Grud 2B
Teahen RF
Butler 1B
Gordon 3B
Saltalamacchia C
Buck DH
Pena SS
Gathright CF

Not a shabby lineup. And Salt and Buck can switch positions.

[KcMizzou]

To borrow a line from Sterling Sharpe. "I like what I am seein'."LMAO

It fits.

[VonneMarie]

I agree. I like his numbers for a 22 year old player.

DeJesus LF
Grud 2B
Teahen RF
Butler 1B
Gordon 3B
Saltalamacchia C
Buck DH
Pena SS
Gathright CF

Not a shabby lineup. And Salt and Buck can switch positions.
That's great. You'd have Buck at DH?

[HemiEd]

LMAO

It fits.

Yeah, it really is nice to see them coming together and playing some real baseball. It has been a long time since they have shown this much improvement.
I think it was two outings ago, Zach Grienke threw a 71 mph change up, then came back with a 98 mph fb high and tight, to get a strike out and end a threat. He was unhittable that night, fun to watch.

[Coach]

That's great. You'd have Buck at DH?

Well him or Salt can, depending on who can play the catcher position better, and also add in that some pitchers perfer one or the other.

[Chiefspants]

Im excited for this, btw 100th post!

[beer bacon]

The Dodgers already have a a good setup guy and closer....Dotel would help them but he isn't enough of a need for them to trade those guys.

Then obviously they aren't the type of team Moore is really interested in trading Dotel to.

[RJ]

Dotel used to be a great set-up pitcher. He then became a mediocre closer, then he became an injured closer. Truth be told, he doesn't have much value at this point and the Royals can't expect much for him.

[Eleazar]

Read some rumors about Greinke this week too. He's someone that a lot of teams might be high on right now. Obviously, you'd need something really nice to part with a guy who still carries potential like he does, and he's been great in that bullpen role.

Maybe if they don't think he's ever going to figure into the rotation again you could do it.

At least Dotel should net us a good prospect and Sanders should net us something more than what we have now. He might be the biggest guy out there to be had, since this is looking to be an unspectacular deadline.

Kudos to the Royals for bringing him in. Very little risk, and you can flip the guy for a prospect. We need to play the free agent stock market like that to fill the minors with some talent.

[KevB]

Dotel used to be a great set-up pitcher. He then became a mediocre closer, then he became an injured closer. Truth be told, he doesn't have much value at this point and the Royals can't expect much for him.

The truth is that he's a 33 year old reliever who had arm surgery almost two years ago. He's now fully recovered, and anyone that's watched him pitch sees that he has recovered his mid 90s fastball and biting slider. He's getting people out in pressure situations, and he's striking guys out frequently (just what you need in a pennant chase/playoffs). He doesn't have a big contract, nor would a team be saddled with additional years. I don't think he gets a top shelf prospect, but he is in high demand, so who knows. It's going to be a seller's market, with so many teams still in the race and so many of those teams need bullpen help.

[DJ's left nut]

Re: Greinke

Would you guys consider sending him to STL for Anthony Reyes? Reyes has stellar AAA #s and has pitched his best games in the AL Central when he relies on his heater and being aggressive.

Back in the NL, he gets cute and tries to pitch backwards (using a plus changeup to set up his fastball). Dunno why he does it, it's stupid and it gets him rocked.

Both guys are highly regarded prospects whose stocks have taken quite a tumble. Both guys could probably use a change of scenery to unlock the rest of their potential.

As for LA, they have Broxton and Saito, they don't need Dotel. They certainly don't need him at the cost of Loney or Kemp. If they deal either of those guys, it needs to be for a competent 3b. I'd imagine they'd listen if you folks put Teahan on the block.

[SPchief]

Re: Greinke

Would you guys consider sending him to STL for Anthony Reyes? Reyes has stellar AAA #s and has pitched his best games in the AL Central when he relies on his heater and being aggressive.

Back in the NL, he gets cute and tries to pitch backwards (using a plus changeup to set up his fastball). Dunno why he does it, it's stupid and it gets him rocked.

Both guys are highly regarded prospects whose stocks have taken quite a tumble. Both guys could probably use a change of scenery to unlock the rest of their potential.

As for LA, they have Broxton and Saito, they don't need Dotel. They certainly don't need him at the cost of Loney or Kemp. If they deal either of those guys, it needs to be for a competent 3b. I'd imagine they'd listen if you folks put Teahan on the block.

No way in hell do I want to see Grienke in another uniform, even worse would be a Card uniform. I'd drive down to the K and shoot Moore myself if he traded Grienke to the Tards.

[DJ's left nut]

Okay, now how about someone who's opinion isn't fueled by jealousy.

I get it, Royals fans don't like the Cardinals. Cardinals fans don't give a crap about the Royals. I guess it's some kind of circle of life.

In any event, I probably wouldn't do the deal if I'm Moore b/c of Greinke's upside. It's an intriguing idea because both clubs need starting pitchers and both clubs have potentially top shelf starting pitchers that haven't transitioned well into the role and probably have more value to other clubs than the club they are currently on.

[kcfanXIII]

no way do you deal grienke

[Mecca]

Re: Greinke

Would you guys consider sending him to STL for Anthony Reyes? Reyes has stellar AAA #s and has pitched his best games in the AL Central when he relies on his heater and being aggressive.

Back in the NL, he gets cute and tries to pitch backwards (using a plus changeup to set up his fastball). Dunno why he does it, it's stupid and it gets him rocked.

Both guys are highly regarded prospects whose stocks have taken quite a tumble. Both guys could probably use a change of scenery to unlock the rest of their potential.

As for LA, they have Broxton and Saito, they don't need Dotel. They certainly don't need him at the cost of Loney or Kemp. If they deal either of those guys, it needs to be for a competent 3b. I'd imagine they'd listen if you folks put Teahan on the block.

One of their top prospects...Andy LaRoche is a 3rd baseman, he's mashing in AAA right now, odds are he'll be called up to be given the job before they trade something for a guy.

[teedubya]

Grienke would do great in the national league, where he would get to bat.

He REALLY likes to bat... and he really likes sunsets.

[KcMizzou]

Grienke would do great in the national league, where he would get to bat.

He REALLY likes to bat... and he really likes sunsets.And puppies.

[Valiant]

Okay, now how about someone who's opinion isn't fueled by jealousy.

I get it, Royals fans don't like the Cardinals. Cardinals fans don't give a crap about the Royals. I guess it's some kind of circle of life.

In any event, I probably wouldn't do the deal if I'm Moore b/c of Greinke's upside. It's an intriguing idea because both clubs need starting pitchers and both clubs have potentially top shelf starting pitchers that haven't transitioned well into the role and probably have more value to other clubs than the club they are currently on.


But you guys do not have anything to offer of Greinke's skill, the kid will be a star one day with our team or some other.. But you will have to offer up more then just Reyes..

[SPchief]

Can we get a sticky?

[ILChief]

And puppies.

and chilpolte burritos

[DJ's left nut]

Mecca,

Yes, but they're playing Nomar at 3b right now. He's possibly the worst hitting regular in baseball. I'm pretty sure his slg% is actually lower than his OB%, his lack of power is amazing. They need somebody better at 3b if they're going to make a good run in the playoffs. They tried LaRoche already this year and he fell on his face. They need to make a move for a veteran 3bman.

Valiant,

I think the question is ultimately, do you think Greinke will be a better starting pitcher for the Royals than Reyes would be for the Royals.

I don't think he would be. Reyes is a guy whose focus wanes and he gets beat by banjo hitters. In the AL, he's always focused better because he knows he doesn't have that pitchers out at the end of the order. His best ML games have actually been better than Greinke's best ML games. There's also an argument that Dave Duncan has got his so wound up in STL that he'll never get it done there, but he's still performing in the minors. So it's not as though his ability has left him. He'll be a very good pitcher, but I think he needs to get away from Dave Duncan and into an environment like KC where more is asked from him.

As for Greinke, he's exactly the opposite. He'd do much better in the NL where he gets that pitchers spot up in the order. He can relax and take a step back a little. It would allow him to regroup and hopefully avoid that big inning that has been killing him. It also allows him to escape his demons, to some degree. I just don't see him turning into an elite starting pitcher with KC. Since his move to middle relief, most people seem to have forgotten how truly horrendous he was as a starter. Maybe he stays as a great middle reliever, but are you really willing to keep Greinke the middle reliever over Reyes the starter?

In the end, I think Reyes would be a better starter for KC than Greinke would be for KC. I also think Greinke would be a better starter for STL than Reyes would be for STL. It is a winner of a trade for both sides. The only question becomes, do the Royals think they can get better than Reyes on the trade market.

I'll bet you they can't/won't. The Royals need pitching far more than they need Loney or Kemp. Reyes is going to be the best available young pitcher.

[RP_McMurphy]

Big salary for a soft as butter player. He's injury prone and not worth anything over the major league min. at this point. The best the Royals could hope for in a trade is maybe some dirty socks or batting pratice baseballs.

I say trade Sweeney for Dontrelle Willis!!!!

[AirForceChief]

I'm loath to give up on Greinke just yet...I probably tought too highly of him a couple of years back and don't want to realize he can't be the success I'd hoped in K.C. Perhaps Greinke could be converted to a closer. At least from a mental stand-point he'd be "in the game" on a more frequent basis.

Trade Dotel and Saunders for the best pitching prospects you can get and give Zack a shot at the closers role through the end of the year! This minimizes the impact on the bull pen and still gets you something for tomorrow.

The Royals are one game under .500 since 1 May; this team is closer than a lot of folks think. Two solid starters away, IMO. No reason to blow this thing up now...

[KevB]

I think the question is ultimately, do you think Greinke will be a better starting pitcher for the Royals than Reyes would be for the Royals.

I don't think he would be. Reyes is a guy whose focus wanes and he gets beat by banjo hitters. In the AL, he's always focused better because he knows he doesn't have that pitchers out at the end of the order. His best ML games have actually been better than Greinke's best ML games. There's also an argument that Dave Duncan has got his so wound up in STL that he'll never get it done there, but he's still performing in the minors. So it's not as though his ability has left him. He'll be a very good pitcher, but I think he needs to get away from Dave Duncan and into an environment like KC where more is asked from him.

As for Greinke, he's exactly the opposite. He'd do much better in the NL where he gets that pitchers spot up in the order. He can relax and take a step back a little. It would allow him to regroup and hopefully avoid that big inning that has been killing him. It also allows him to escape his demons, to some degree. I just don't see him turning into an elite starting pitcher with KC. Since his move to middle relief, most people seem to have forgotten how truly horrendous he was as a starter. Maybe he stays as a great middle reliever, but are you really willing to keep Greinke the middle reliever over Reyes the starter?

In the end, I think Reyes would be a better starter for KC than Greinke would be for KC. I also think Greinke would be a better starter for STL than Reyes would be for STL. It is a winner of a trade for both sides. The only question becomes, do the Royals think they can get better than Reyes on the trade market.

I'll bet you they can't/won't. The Royals need pitching far more than they need Loney or Kemp. Reyes is going to be the best available young pitcher.

Greinke is two years younger, has better stuff, and more success at the major league level than Reyes. I don't think Greinke is easily projected....he's taken an interesting path. But Reyes has been given opportunities with St. Louis, and failed miserably. You may be right that he needs a change of scenery, as he's been very successful in AAA....but the Royals aren't going to give up someone with Greinke's talent to find out.

[DJ's left nut]

Okay, so with Soria showing success in the closers role and the Royals being "2 solid starters away"...why put keep Greinke in the pen, even as a closer, if you can get a starter for him.

Reyes does have the upside of Soria. A team with Reyes in the rotation and Soria closing is better than a team with Soria in the rotation and Greinke closing.

[DJ's left nut]

Greinke is two years younger, has better stuff, and more success at the major league level than Reyes. I don't think Greinke is easily projected....he's taken an interesting path. But Reyes has been given opportunities with St. Louis, and failed miserably. You may be right that he needs a change of scenery, as he's been very successful in AAA....but the Royals aren't going to give up someone with Greinke's talent to find out.

He doesn't have better stuff, he has different stuff.

Again, talk to a Cardinals fan about Reyes' "opportunities" in STL. Duncan has tried to get him to give up on his 4-seamer and he's rebelled. When Reyes is pitching correctly, using his 4 seamer to set up his changeup and his slider, he's extremely good. When he's scared of his fastball and he uses his changeup to set up his hard stuff, he's not so good.

You have to look at his game by game results to see how he's actually done. Reyes would get hit hard at the beginning of a game, then he'd retire the next 15 hitters, then he'd throw a cock-shot fastball to Nook Logan after walking the 7 and 8 hitters to give up 3 runs.

He aggregate results do not show how well he actually pitched for large stretches during those games, but he'd always screw off at the bottom of the order and get hit. If you take that away from him, his focus is much stronger. He's a guy that will respond well to the pressure. Take away his safety net (the pitchers spot in the order) and I'll bet he actually pitches better.

As for Greinke's "success" at the ML level. It's 3 years and a nervous breakdown in his rearview. Greinke has not done anymore as a starting pitcher in the last 2 seasons than Reyes has. He certainly doesn't have a start like the WS start that Reyes hung on the Tigers. Do you really think Greinke has the makeup to go out there in game 1 of the WS and shut down the Tigers?

All I'm saying is remember the last 3 years with Greinke. It was 2 years of nothing and then getting torched as a starter this year. He had 3 good starts and 4 where he got blown apart. He is not as valuable to the Royals as a MR as Reyes would be to them as a starter. He also doesn't seem to have the capacity to be a great SP for the Royals.

[alnorth]

He doesn't have better stuff, he has different stuff.

Again, talk to a Cardinals fan about Reyes' "opportunities" in STL. Duncan has tried to get him to give up on his 4-seamer and he's rebelled. When Reyes is pitching correctly, using his 4 seamer to set up his changeup and his slider, he's extremely good. When he's scared of his fastball and he uses his changeup to set up his hard stuff, he's not so good.

You have to look at his game by game results to see how he's actually done. Reyes would get hit hard at the beginning of a game, then he'd retire the next 15 hitters, then he'd throw a cock-shot fastball to Nook Logan after walking the 7 and 8 hitters to give up 3 runs.

He aggregate results do not show how well he actually pitched for large stretches during those games, but he'd always screw off at the bottom of the order and get hit. If you take that away from him, his focus is much stronger. He's a guy that will respond well to the pressure. Take away his safety net (the pitchers spot in the order) and I'll bet he actually pitches better.

As for Greinke's "success" at the ML level. It's 3 years and a nervous breakdown in his rearview. Greinke has not done anymore as a starting pitcher in the last 2 seasons than Reyes has. He certainly doesn't have a start like the WS start that Reyes hung on the Tigers. Do you really think Greinke has the makeup to go out there in game 1 of the WS and shut down the Tigers?

All I'm saying is remember the last 3 years with Greinke. It was 2 years of nothing and then getting torched as a starter this year. He had 3 good starts and 4 where he got blown apart. He is not as valuable to the Royals as a MR as Reyes would be to them as a starter. He also doesn't seem to have the capacity to be a great SP for the Royals.

If Gretzy can be traded, then anyone is tradable. I wouldnt trade Greinke unless it was a pretty rediculous deal because I think he still has great potential as a starter. For some reason many Royal fans want to keep him in the bullpen, but if Greinke is truely done as a starter, then hell yes I'd trade him away for a good starter... but not Reyes. Hell, the man is 0-10 with an ERA north of 6 this year for crying out loud.

[AirForceChief]

Okay, so with Soria showing success in the closers role and the Royals being "2 solid starters away"...why put keep Greinke in the pen, even as a closer, if you can get a starter for him.

Reyes does have the upside of Soria. A team with Reyes in the rotation and Soria closing is better than a team with Soria in the rotation and Greinke closing.

I've read that the Royals believe that Soria will eventually move into the rotation and that Zack has trouble with down time between starts; thought this solution fits nicely in my rose-colored world!

[Stewie]

I've read that the Royals believe that Soria will eventually move into the rotation and that Zack has trouble with down time between starts; thought this solution fits nicely in my rose-colored world!

I thought they were going to give Soria a start or two this year to see how he handled it. Now, we get Elarton on the mound against the Yankees next week. He couldn't get AAA guys out while he was in Omaha and now we expect him to succeed against the Yanks? I don't get it.

[Sure-Oz]

Anyone think that Grudz will be traded as well, now that the mets valentin broke his leg? I think Dotel will definetly get us something pretty good, he is getting people out and his fastball and slider are back. He will get $$$ next year for sure.

[VonneMarie]

No way we trade Greinke.

[Valiant]

He doesn't have better stuff, he has different stuff.

Again, talk to a Cardinals fan about Reyes' "opportunities" in STL. Duncan has tried to get him to give up on his 4-seamer and he's rebelled. When Reyes is pitching correctly, using his 4 seamer to set up his changeup and his slider, he's extremely good. When he's scared of his fastball and he uses his changeup to set up his hard stuff, he's not so good.

You have to look at his game by game results to see how he's actually done. Reyes would get hit hard at the beginning of a game, then he'd retire the next 15 hitters, then he'd throw a cock-shot fastball to Nook Logan after walking the 7 and 8 hitters to give up 3 runs.

He aggregate results do not show how well he actually pitched for large stretches during those games, but he'd always screw off at the bottom of the order and get hit. If you take that away from him, his focus is much stronger. He's a guy that will respond well to the pressure. Take away his safety net (the pitchers spot in the order) and I'll bet he actually pitches better.

As for Greinke's "success" at the ML level. It's 3 years and a nervous breakdown in his rearview. Greinke has not done anymore as a starting pitcher in the last 2 seasons than Reyes has. He certainly doesn't have a start like the WS start that Reyes hung on the Tigers. Do you really think Greinke has the makeup to go out there in game 1 of the WS and shut down the Tigers?

All I'm saying is remember the last 3 years with Greinke. It was 2 years of nothing and then getting torched as a starter this year. He had 3 good starts and 4 where he got blown apart. He is not as valuable to the Royals as a MR as Reyes would be to them as a starter. He also doesn't seem to have the capacity to be a great SP for the Royals.


My problem is Greinke would tear it up on your team, kind of like how Meche would also.. You know it and I am sure the Cards know it, that is one reason why I would never trade Greinke for a player that has done horrible at the ML level and is only a AAA allstar.. You get a player that is younger and more upside, of course you will try to justify the thought of it being a better deal or fair deal for the royals. Reyes has had some success with the AL just because he does not have to face them all the time and no one knows all of his stuff.. The AL hands down is a tougher division on pitchers and Reyes would soon be torn apart by it..

People that I would not trade off of the Royals this year..

Baby DeJesus
Teahan
Gordon
Shealey
Butler
Buck
Meche
Bannister
Greinke
Riske
Soria

Everybody else is open for debate, But this group stays just this year and we work on getting better for next year by not trading away our stars that will be with us for a bit or our up and coming players..

[KevB]

He doesn't have better stuff, he has different stuff.

That's a matter of opinion. I've watched Reyes in more than a couple of games. I'm also aware of his pitches and how his games have evolved. I'm actually a fan of his....I've had him on my fantasy team at three different times, so I've tracked him closely. I'm not aware of the Duncan/Reyes issues, so I'll take your word for that part.

Greinke throws 4 or 5 pitches as a starter. All of them are major league quality. He's bumped his fastball into the upper 90s as a reliever. I'm making the assumption that as he matures, he'll handle the starter role more effectively. I don't see a 23/24 year old as being locked into a relief role. He simply has more upside than Reyes, bottom line. The Royals can't trade a pitcher who could be a #1 or #2 for a guy who's most likely going to be a #2 or #3 (Reyes) at their peaks. Again, Greinke is two years younger, which is a big factor as well.

[tk13]

I thought they were going to give Soria a start or two this year to see how he handled it. Now, we get Elarton on the mound against the Yankees next week. He couldn't get AAA guys out while he was in Omaha and now we expect him to succeed against the Yanks? I don't get it.
I'm pretty sure we're protecting his arm. He's coming off winter ball, and Buddy's done a pretty good job of not extending him. If he sees some starts I'd bet it'd be toward the end of the year.

[KevB]

People that I would not trade off of the Royals this year..

Baby DeJesus
Teahan
Gordon
Shealey
Butler
Buck
Meche
Bannister
Greinke
Riske
Soria

Everybody else is open for debate, But this group stays just this year and we work on getting better for next year by not trading away our stars that will be with us for a bit or our up and coming players..

Of this group, I'd listen to offers for DeJesus, Shealy, and Riske. Nobody wants Shealy I'm sure, but DeJesus and Riske could provide some value. I like those two guys, but Riske is expendable and DeJesus is never going to be better than a slightly above average center fielder.

[KevB]

I'm pretty sure we're protecting his arm. He's coming off winter ball, and Buddy's done a pretty good job of not extending him. If he sees some starts I'd bet it'd be toward the end of the year.

I want us to be very careful with Soria. He has too bright a future to throw his arm off this season. I'm very excited about the prospects of Soria in the rotation. He's comfortable throwing 4 pitches for strikes, and nobody can hit the guy. Meche, Bannister, Soria, Greinke (fingers crossed) and JDLR is a nice rotation with some upside.

[ChiefsCountry]

Remember we have Hochever and Lumpsen in the minors.

[KevB]

Remember we have Hochever and Lumpsen in the minors.

Lumsden's ERA is in the high 6's, and Hochever still has much to prove. I haven't forgotten them, but I'm not assuming they'll be ready next year.

[Coach]

Lumsden's ERA is in the high 6's, and Hochever still has much to prove. I haven't forgotten them, but I'm not assuming they'll be ready next year.

Maybe next year of Septemer.

[ClearmontChief]

Remember we have Hochever and Lumpsen in the minors.

I watched Hochever pitch in Omaha last night. Weird!

He opened the game with 10 straight balls. 2 on, no outs. Then, struck out 2 of 3 and got out of the inning w/o a score.

Then, next thing I know, I look up and he's got a no-hitter in the 5th. Then, another walk, stolen base, and a he gives up a hit and they pull him in the 5th. Game tied 1-1.

O Royals win 3-1 over Memphis Redbirds with Anthony Reyes pitching.

[cookster50]

That's great. You'd have Buck at DH?
And the worst DH in the league award goes to..... THE KANSAS CITY ROYALS with JOHN BUCK as the DH!!

[beavis]

I've read that the Royals believe that Soria will eventually move into the rotation and that Zack has trouble with down time between starts; thought this solution fits nicely in my rose-colored world!
If we do trade Dotel, I'd really like to see Zach get a shot at the closer role.