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View Full Version : Microchip implants in workers raise privacy concerns


DenverChief
07-21-2007, 10:51 PM
Poll: Good idea or Bad idea? I think this is definitely a road we DO NOT want to go down...

CityWatcher.com, a provider of surveillance equipment, attracted little notice itself — until a year ago, when two of its employees had glass-encapsulated microchips with miniature antennas embedded in their forearms.

The "chipping" of two workers with RFIDs — radio frequency identification tags as long as two grains of rice, as thick as a toothpick — was merely a way of restricting access to vaults that held sensitive data and images for police departments, a layer of security beyond key cards and clearance codes, the company said.

"To protect high-end secure data, you use more sophisticated techniques," Sean Darks, chief executive of the Cincinnati-based company, said. He compared chip implants to retina scans or fingerprinting. "There's a reader outside the door; you walk up to the reader, put your arm under it, and it opens the door."

Innocuous? Maybe.

But the news that Americans had, for the first time, been injected with electronic identifiers to perform their jobs fired up a debate over the proliferation of ever-more-precise tracking technologies and their ability to erode privacy in the digital age.

To some, the microchip was a wondrous invention — a high-tech helper that could increase security at nuclear plants and military bases, help authorities identify wandering Alzheimer's patients, allow consumers to buy their groceries, literally, with the wave of a chipped hand.

To others, the notion of tagging people was Orwellian, a departure from centuries of history and tradition in which people had the right to go and do as they pleased, without being tracked, unless they were harming someone else.

Chipping, these critics said, might start with Alzheimer's patients or Army Rangers, but would eventually be suggested for convicts, then parolees, then sex offenders, then illegal aliens — until one day, a majority of Americans, falling into one category or another, would find themselves electronically tagged.

The concept of making all things traceable isn't alien to Americans. Thirty years ago, the first electronic tags were fixed to the ears of cattle, to permit ranchers to track a herd's reproductive and eating habits. In the 1990s, millions of chips were implanted in livestock, fish, dogs, cats, even racehorses.

Microchips are now fixed to car windshields as toll-paying devices, on "contactless" payment cards (Chase's "Blink," or MasterCard's "PayPass"). They're embedded in Michelin tires, library books, passports, work uniforms, luggage, and, unbeknownst to many consumers, on a host of individual items, from Hewlett Packard printers to Sanyo TVs, at Wal-Mart and Best Buy.

But CityWatcher.com employees weren't appliances or pets: They were people made scannable.

"It was scary that a government contractor that specialized in putting surveillance cameras on city streets was the first to incorporate this technology in the workplace," says Liz McIntyre, co-author of "Spychips: How Major Corporations and Government Plan to Track Your Every Move with RFID."

Darks, the CityWatcher.com executive, dismissed his critics, noting that he and his employees had volunteered to be chip-injected. Any suggestion that a sinister, Big-Brother-like campaign was afoot, he said, was hogwash.

"You would think that we were going around putting chips in people by force," he told a reporter, "and that's not the case at all."

Yet, within days of the company's announcement, civil libertarians and Christian conservatives joined to excoriate the microchip's implantation in people.

RFID, they warned, would soon enable the government to "frisk" citizens electronically — an invisible, undetectable search performed by readers posted at "hotspots" along roadsides and in pedestrian areas. It might even be used to squeal on employees while they worked; time spent at the water cooler, in the bathroom, in a designated smoking area could one day be broadcast, recorded and compiled in off-limits, company databases.

"Ultimately," says Katherine Albrecht, a privacy advocate who specializes in consumer education and RFID technology, "the fear is that the government or your employer might someday say, 'Take a chip or starve.'"

Some Christian critics saw the implants as the fulfillment of a biblical prophecy that describes an age of evil in which humans are forced to take the "Mark of the Beast" on their bodies, to buy or sell anything.

Gary Wohlscheid, president of These Last Days Ministries, a Roman Catholic group in Lowell, Mich., put together a Web site that linked the implantable microchips to the apocalyptic prophecy in the book of Revelation.

"The Bible tells us that God's wrath will come to those who take the Mark of the Beast," he says. Those who refuse to accept the Satanic chip "will be saved," Wohlscheid offers in a comforting tone.


more @

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070721/ap_on_hi_te/chipping_america

Hammock Parties
07-21-2007, 10:55 PM
What about wristwatches?

DenverChief
07-21-2007, 10:59 PM
What about wristwatches?


what about them? as tracking devices? I don't care my concern is that it is inside you, never removable without the help of a physician or a DIY kit

DaFace
07-21-2007, 11:02 PM
I'm sure I'll be in the minority here, but it wouldn't bother me any. I think it'd be cool to not have to carry a wallet and instead have a chip track ID, credit card info, etc.

I've got nothing to hide, so track away.

Hammock Parties
07-21-2007, 11:03 PM
what about them? as tracking devices? I don't care my concern is that it is inside you, never removable without the help of a physician or a DIY kit

I was just referring to the asinine "mark of the beast" correlation.

kcfanXIII
07-21-2007, 11:04 PM
WPI is reporting the chiefs are about to implant microchips in all the players

Hammock Parties
07-21-2007, 11:04 PM
WPI is reporting the chiefs are about to implant microchips in all the players

Why do you keep posting about Warpaint?

kcfanXIII
07-21-2007, 11:05 PM
because i like focking with you. i see its working.

Hammock Parties
07-21-2007, 11:10 PM
Yeah, it is. I wish you'd stop being such a dipshit.

DenverChief
07-21-2007, 11:12 PM
I'm sure I'll be in the minority here, but it wouldn't bother me any. I think it'd be cool to not have to carry a wallet and instead have a chip track ID, credit card info, etc.

I've got nothing to hide, so track away.


What about someone like say a stalker ex who has found a way to track your every move and knows when you leave so she can go in and poop on your stove....seriously the chance of abuse is far too high for my taste

DaFace
07-21-2007, 11:15 PM
What about someone like say a stalker ex who has found a way to track your every move and knows when you leave so she can go in and poop on your stove....seriously the chance of abuse is far too high for my taste

Well, kind of. In order to do something like that you'd have to be talking about a chip that was GPS capable (these are not). They'd have to actually install a reader in your place to be able to track when you come and go, and even that would be difficult.

I'm thinking of this more as an identification device rather than a tracking device.

BigRedChief
07-21-2007, 11:16 PM
It's coming like it or not. At first it will be voluntary for "sensitive" areas. Later it will be "voluntary" for all areas that need security.

I use to work for the Department of Homeland Security. I had to give up some of my rights to work for them. Thats part of the deal. You don't want to make that deal then don't go to work for them.

kcfanXIII
07-21-2007, 11:17 PM
Yeah, it is. I wish you'd stop being such a dipshit.

don't worry, i'm sure i'll get bored with the easy target soon enough.

DenverChief
07-21-2007, 11:21 PM
Well, kind of. In order to do something like that you'd have to be talking about a chip that was GPS capable (these are not). They'd have to actually install a reader in your place to be able to track when you come and go, and even that would be difficult.

I'm thinking of this more as an identification device rather than a tracking device.


it was a very long article so I didn't post the whole thing here is a snippet from the second half of the article

Do the current chips have global positioning transceivers that would allow the government to pinpoint a person's exact location, 24-7? (No; the technology doesn't yet exist.)

But could a tech-savvy stalker rig scanners to video cameras and film somebody each time they entered or left the house? (Quite easily, though not cheaply. Currently, readers cost $300 and up.)

How about thieves? Could they make their own readers, aim them at unsuspecting individuals, and surreptitiously pluck people's IDs out of their arms? (Yes. There's even a name for it — "spoofing.")

What's the average lifespan of a microchip? (About 10-15 years.) What if you get tired of it before then — can it be easily, painlessly removed? (Short answer: No.)

DenverChief
07-21-2007, 11:22 PM
It's coming like it or not. At first it will be voluntary for "sensitive" areas. Later it will be "voluntary" for all areas that need security.

I use to work for the Department of Homeland Security. I had to give up some of my rights to work for them. Thats part of the deal. You don't want to make that deal then don't go to work for them.


:spock: I was referring to chipping in general...I mean sure it starts with employees but where does it stop?

kcfanXIII
07-21-2007, 11:24 PM
never in a million years would i take a chip. if carrying a wallet is that big a deal to you, i feel sorry for you.

Ultra Peanut
07-21-2007, 11:41 PM
If this is one of Willie’s friends or clients, Willie is in prison. I guess it was just more important to him to look after you than it was to take care of me & anna-marie. I hope you think it was worth it. I’m still waiting for the Glorious Resistance to send me a box of diapers and some baby food and job that pays more than minimum wage. Oh—right. Those jobs are for people who AREN’T married to dissidents.

Ultra Peanut
07-21-2007, 11:45 PM
1. I was a medic jabbing bums in Belfast and Wight
for onwards of 8 year. I know what I’m doing. Don’t
think for yourself, it’s not your strong suit. Just do
EXACTLY what I ****ing tell you.
2. You need: a non-cotton bandage (I recommend
Telfa), tweezers, a lighter, a sharp knife (scalpel
preferred) and a disinfectant. NOT peroxide. Sod
your mum – peroxide is an acid and eats the edges of
the wound. Tough to lie to a grasshopper when
you’re sporting a homemade scar. I recommend
green antibacterial soap.
3. Sterilise your knife with the lighter. Heat both
sides just above the tip of the flame.
4. Lay your left index and middle fingers over that
bracelet of three wrinkles at your right wrist. The tip
of your left middle finger should be on top of the two
tendons that rise when you clench your fist. Keep
your eyes on the V of your two fingers. Mark that
spot with a biro.
5. Daub that spot with a 2-3 cm diameter circle of
disinfectant.
6. Cut a 1 cm long incision parallel to your tendons.
No, you will not accidentally slash your wrists. Yes,
there will be blood. Yes, it will ****ing hurt. Pull your
knickers out of your arse and bite on a ****ing stick.
7. Flex your hand backwards. The wound will flex.
Have a good long butchers.
8. The nerochip is just under 0.5 cm long and is
bright red. Gently grasp it with the tweezers and tug
straight up out of the wound. Yes, it will ****ing hurt.
Your right fingers may start to twitch or curl. Go slow.
9. Peel up the chip and put it in some cellotape. Stick
the cellotape inside something like a bus or taxi to
keep it moving. Bikes are also good—pick a courier or
student.
If the operation goes tits up, you’re going to find the prison doctor reinserting it. Before I took out my first, I
practiced cutting the inside of my bicep. It’s sensitive and private.

Remember – you’re just meat. You’ll heal. Every drop you bleed is a reminder you’re alive and free. ****ing use it.

DaFace
07-21-2007, 11:46 PM
What's the average lifespan of a microchip? (About 10-15 years.) What if you get tired of it before then — can it be easily, painlessly removed? (Short answer: No.)

This statement reveals the bias in the article. They've been microchipping pets for quite a few years now, and it's supposed to hurt about as much as a shot. It's not like it requires surgery to get it in and our or anything.

DenverChief
07-22-2007, 12:55 AM
This statement reveals the bias in the article. They've been microchipping pets for quite a few years now, and it's supposed to hurt about as much as a shot. It's not like it requires surgery to get it in and our or anything.


They were talking about taking it out not putting it in....

unlurking
07-22-2007, 01:11 AM
I wonder if tasers are part of the exit interview?

HR: Do you have your key cards?
Employee: Why yes, here they are.
HR: Remember that violating your SBI will put you in jail.
Employee: Yes ma'am.
HR: OK, roll up your sleeve?
Employee: Umm.........OK?
HR: Hold still?
Employee: What are you doing?!?!?!
HR: Disabling your access chip.
ZZZZZAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!
HR: OK, have a nice day!!
Employee: oooooh...oooooh...oooooh...oooooh...oooooh...oooooh...oooooh...oooooh...oooooh...oooooh

mikey23545
07-22-2007, 07:02 AM
Anybody tracking my comings and goings is going to get pretty damn bored pretty damn quickly.

Simplex3
07-22-2007, 08:46 AM
I've got nothing to hide, so track away.
That's the most common, and insane, excuse. What are you going to do when someone hijacks your number? It's easy. All I have to do to steal identities is walk down the street with a reader, then reproduce the output by creating a chip that broadcasts the same thing.

RFID is possibly the dumbest "security" measure.

Chief Roundup
07-22-2007, 09:17 AM
It is another one of those ideas that have so much positive possibilities, but because of other peoples activities it would be misused and abused. Therefore I think it is a bad idea other than in certain situations such as, known convicted sex offenders, murders and so forth.

JBucc
07-22-2007, 09:21 AM
I'll take them in my groceries and my dog. Not in me though. Therefore I think it is a bad idea other than in certain situations such as, known convicted sex offenders, murders and so forth.Let's just brand SO, M and J into people's heads instead.

mikey23545
07-22-2007, 10:07 AM
I'm glad all the resident Luddites have come out to play....

Adept Havelock
07-22-2007, 10:18 AM
Hell no. I don't want GPS in my phone, nor a tracking chip in my car either.

It's an interesting technology, but the potential for abuse is too high IMO. Not that I'm worried about the government being directly interested in little old me, but primarily due to principle.

I'm glad all the resident Luddites have come out to play....

:rolleyes:

Yes, mikey. Those of us who have a few reservations about the abuse of a new technology simply want to chuck all of industrial society in the wastebin and go back to a rural agrarian existence.

"Luddites" indeed. ROFL

Simplex3
07-22-2007, 10:40 AM
I'm glad all the resident Luddites have come out to play....
Not wanting anonymous govts and criminals knowing where I am and where I have been at all times has nothing to do with people inventing machines that put me out of work.

Play again sometime.

mikey23545
07-22-2007, 10:41 AM
Hell no. I don't want GPS in my phone, nor a tracking chip in my car either.

It's an interesting technology, but the potential for abuse is too high IMO. Not that I'm worried about the government being directly interested in little old me, but primarily due to principle.



:rolleyes:

Yes, mikey. Those of us who have a few reservations about the abuse of a new technology simply want to chuck all of industrial society in the wastebin and go back to a rural agrarian existence.

"Luddites" indeed. ROFL

I didn't say <i>you</i> were a Luddite....You're just an idiot.

Nice use of Google, btw....

Simplex3
07-22-2007, 11:00 AM
Nice use of Google, btw....
Assuming he did then it's certainly better than staying dumb isn't it?

Adept Havelock
07-22-2007, 11:24 AM
Assuming he did then it's certainly better than staying dumb isn't it?

Hey, it's working for Mikey. :shrug:

I didn't say <i>you</i> were a Luddite....You're just an idiot.

Nice use of Google, btw....

Nice assumption but incorrect. I don't require Google to tell me the meaning of such a commonplace word. My vocabulary is quite sufficent.

Calling folks a Luddite because they are hesitant about adopting a new technology? Let me guess, Mikey was one of the geniuses who ran out and plonked down $600 for a beta Iphone, and were waiting in line the night of the Windows 95 release.

Thanks for playing, and in Planet vernacular, isn't it "Your and idiot"?

You can be certain I'll put an appropriate value on his estimation of my intelligence:

boogblaster
07-22-2007, 11:29 AM
Way too much control now ....

Valiant
07-22-2007, 11:53 AM
I didn't say <i>you</i> were a Luddite....You're just an idiot.

Nice use of Google, btw....


I think Luddite is a group of people that fear/hate technology...

Thank you City of Heroes...

Reaper16
07-22-2007, 12:42 PM
I'll be a corpse before you'll find any "security" chip inside me. Unless they sneak it in with some sort of nano-technology bullshit, whereupon I will join the sure-to-be-growing civilian militia rebelling against the robot government horde.

Rain Man
07-22-2007, 12:53 PM
My cats have microchips. One of them wandered out of the yard a couple of years ago, and Zing! someone found him and Zam! They called an 800 number on his collar and Zow! We got a call that he'd been found and Zip! We called the finder and picked him up. Other than the fact that he wasn't really lost, it was a pretty cool system.


Edit: now that I think about this, the microchip played no part in this. However, it has the same ID code that was on his collar tag, so worst case, the pound would have found the code on the chip and called us.