PDA

View Full Version : Whitlock: This defense should be among league’s best


keg in kc
08-01-2007, 09:55 PM
WHITLOCK: This defense should be among league’s best (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/215125.html)

JASON WHITLOCK COMMENTARY
Posted on Wed, Aug. 01, 2007

RIVER FALLS, Wis. | You know, this Chiefs defense reminds me of the 1998 Dream Team Defense — yeah, the defense that had me loopy and fantasizing about the Chiefs finishing 16-0.

Yeah, that defense, the one with Derrick Thomas and Leslie O’Neal rushing off the ends, James Hasty and Dale Carter locking up receivers, Donnie Edwards running like a deer, Chester McGlockton anchored at the line of scrimmage and Reggie Tongue and Jerome Woods patrolling the middle of the field.

Yeah, the defense that caused Marty Schottenheimer to quit, melted down on “Monday Night Football” and made me get out of the prediction business.

Yes, sir, the 2007 Kansas City defense brings back all of those memories, but in a good way. These guys make me optimistic. They make me think the Chiefs could win 10 or 11 games and be a real threat at playoff time. I’ll never feel the way I did in 1998 again, but there’s nothing wrong with a little excitement.

“I do see similarities,” said Donnie Edwards, a member of the 1998 Dream Team Defense and the 2007 unit. “Man, we had two lock-down corners in James and Dale just like we have now with Ty (Law) and Pat (Surtain). With me, Napoleon (Harris) and Derrick (Johnson), we can all run. Jared (Allen) and Tamba (Hali) are two beasts.

“On paper, this could be a very good defense.”

On paper, the 1998 defense reminded me of the 1985 Bears. The Dream Team turned into a nightmare. It couldn’t stop the run or the pass. McGlockton, the big-ticket offseason acquisition, laid a gigantic turd. Derrick Thomas and Wayne Simmons had bad years.

“Man, I can’t remember what happened that year,” Edwards said. “It seemed like we had internal problems. I just remember the Denver game. What did we finish, 7-9?”

That would be correct. Just nine games short of my prediction.

That won’t happen this year. Not if Larry Johnson reports. This is going to be a very good defensive team. All that’s missing is a dominant superstar, an impossible matchup problem. Kansas City’s defense needs its Brian Urlacher, Deion Sanders, Derrick Thomas, Shawne Merriman, etc.

“Jared Allen is a very, very good football player,” Edwards said. “He’s definitely getting confident and getting the mindset to dominate.”

Yeah, Allen looks the part. Scared straight by the league’s substance-abuse program and looking for a Dwight Freeney-like contract, Allen appears primed to become a 15-sack game-changer at defensive end. He’s tall and lean and nasty, a bigger, stronger, half-step-slower version of Simeon Rice in his prime.

If not Allen, then Derrick Johnson might be ready to put it all together in his third season and become a Pro Bowl linebacker.

Here’s what we know for sure: Allen, Edwards, Law and Jarrad Page are going to create turnovers. Allen, Edwards and Law produce turnovers; it’s part of their football DNA. Page has the quick feet and instincts to get to the ball from his safety position.

Those four are good for four turnovers apiece. You can book that. It’s done.

If Hali and Johnson improve at all, we’re looking at a top-10 defense. If Bernard Pollard uses his massive frame to blow up receivers coming across the middle, then we’re looking at a top-eight defense.

The two rookies in the middle — Tank Tyler and Turk McBride — are going to give the Chiefs more than Ryan Sims, and they’re going to make Ron Edwards and James Reed better.

I’ll be disappointed if this isn’t a top-five defense.

“On paper, it looks like a great defense,” Donnie Edwards repeated. “But we have to play great on Sundays. You don’t become a No. 1 defense on talent alone. You have to get 11 guys to the football. You have to get on the same page. And in a 4-3, everybody has to get in their gaps and trust the other guys. If you’re not in your gap, that’s when the other team is off and running.”

I wish someone had told me that in 1998.

RustShack
08-01-2007, 10:01 PM
I agree with him 100% I've been pretty impressed with Whitlock these last couple days.

Hammock Parties
08-01-2007, 10:01 PM
Biggest difference between this defense and the 1998 defense - NO BULLSHIT. NO PRIMA DONNAS. NO OUT OF LINE THUGS.

Just hard work and ASS KICKING.

Simply Red
08-01-2007, 10:02 PM
Finally he compliments the Chiefs.

Hootie
08-01-2007, 10:04 PM
I've been saying this for months on other boards...

The Chiefs are going to have an ELITE defense...

Now, the offense...

pikesome
08-01-2007, 10:05 PM
Biggest difference between this defense and the 1998 defense - NO BULLSHIT. NO PRIMA DONNAS. NO OUT OF LINE THUGS.

Just hard work and ASS KICKING.

I'm not sure you've typed words I agree with more. :bravo:

I'm stealing that last line for a sig BTW.

FAX
08-01-2007, 10:06 PM
I swear, Whitless is bi-polar. However, I'm encouraged by the D, as well. Especially the interesting mix of youth and experience.

If we can hold the enemy to 3 points per half, we should be okay.

FAX

Hammock Parties
08-01-2007, 10:09 PM
I'm not sure you've typed words I agree with more. :bravo:

I'm stealing that last line for a sig BTW.

It really shows out there in practice. EVERYONE on this defense is a hard worker. The defensive linemen especially. They don't quit.

The linebackers are like brothers. Derrick is the little brother. Today I saw Nap, DJ and Donnie huddled together on the sideline just talking. Donnie brought over a water boy and they grabbed a backup linebacker and used them as "mock linemen."

Then they started going through their own little individual "drill" about how to attack certain blocking schemes. People were talking about how Donnie is going to teach DJ all this stuff - HE IS. The three starting linebackers are practically glued together.

Deberg_1990
08-01-2007, 10:10 PM
You know, this Chiefs defense reminds me of the 1998 Dream Team Defense — yeah, the defense that had me loopy and fantasizing about the Chiefs finishing 16-0.

.

oops, he lost me right there...

DMAC
08-01-2007, 10:10 PM
Stop it! You are building hopes..all of you!!

Demonpenz
08-01-2007, 10:11 PM
DJ is going to be a game changer I hope it isn't wasted on 2 or 3 bad teams hopefully he is still healtyh when we are really ready

noa
08-01-2007, 10:14 PM
I'm really excited about our defense. I know people are concerned about our offense, but if Herm turns this defense into a top 5 in two years, people better start coming around to his side. That would be an incredible accomplishment, and a lot of it through the draft.

morphius
08-01-2007, 10:16 PM
I'm really excited about our defense. I know people are concerned about our offense, but if Herm turns this defense into a top 5 in two years, people better start coming around to his side. That would be an incredible accomplishment, and a lot of it through the draft.
eh, if we fall to a bottom 20 offense all he did is basically flip it from one kind of suck to another kind of suck.

Deberg_1990
08-01-2007, 10:16 PM
I know people are concerned about our offense, but if Herm turns this defense into a top 5 in two years, people better start coming around to his side.

He better be able to build a balanced and creative offense as well or hes just another DV. Just on the flip flop...

Archie Bunker
08-01-2007, 10:18 PM
Hard not to get excited about this group. Nice mix of youth, vets, and speed. The sky is the limit for the D.

If Brodie and the OL are half as good as the reports say, this team is gonna surprise alot of people this year.

Despite his flaws Herm has turned an aging, slow, soft team into a young, fast, tough team in a very short time.

WestCoastReggie
08-01-2007, 10:18 PM
McGlockton, the big-ticket offseason acquisition, laid a gigantic turd.

That is disgusting coming from him. :shake:

noa
08-01-2007, 10:19 PM
eh, if we fall to a bottom 20 offense all he did is basically flip it from one kind of suck to another kind of suck.

I can't really blame him for that. He inherited an old QB, and old offensive line, a crappy WR corps, plus a horrible defense. There's only so much a team can do through two drafts and two free agencies, and I like that he focused mostly on the defense considering we have an elite RB to keep our offense somewhat afloat.
IMO, the biggest thing he could do to help his cause with the offense is get rid of Mike Solari.

noa
08-01-2007, 10:20 PM
He better be able to build a balanced and creative offense as well or hes just another DV. Just on the flip flop...


Yes, it would be great to finally see some balance as a Chiefs fan. Something we've been waiting a long time for.

kcxiv
08-01-2007, 10:20 PM
You seen flashes of it in 2005. Just not enough. 2006 you seen even more flashes of it. 2007, i hope we consistantly see it.

I really ****ing hated the fact that everyone laughed at our defense. We were the laughing stock of the league for years. I hated that shit as a fan.

kcxiv
08-01-2007, 10:21 PM
eh, if we fall to a bottom 20 offense all he did is basically flip it from one kind of suck to another kind of suck.
We also never had a runningback like LJ back in the 90's Okoye's career was cut very short due to injury. Allen was just to old when we got him.

I rather see a top defense.

Eleazar
08-01-2007, 10:21 PM
You can kind of see it, but without better play from the defensive tackles they might not be that much better.

Rain Man
08-01-2007, 10:22 PM
He better be able to build a balanced and creative offense as well or hes just another DV. Just on the flip flop...

He'll become VD.

Deberg_1990
08-01-2007, 10:24 PM
He'll become VD.

Vick Dermeil?

Demonpenz
08-01-2007, 10:25 PM
This offensive line looks so shitty who knows in reality how good they will do

RustShack
08-01-2007, 10:26 PM
I think the offence will be slightly improved from last year, especially if Brodie Croyle, Jeff Webb, and Dwayne Bowe pan out like they should, and of course we need LJ back. Holmes coming back and making the team will help too, maybe not as much on the field, but overall his presence will be good. The defence should be greatly improved in just about every way. Overall the Chiefs are alot better than last year, and everyone overlooking them is only going to help out more.

Color Red
08-01-2007, 10:29 PM
Hey if the Chiefs are a top 5 defense, it changes the approach to the offense. Croyle better put up top shelf performance or you're going to be sick about the benching of Huard, last year's 5 - 3 starter. It also heightens the drama around LJ. If we are a top 5 defense, get out the check book and pay that guy, because this team could compete in the playoffs with him in the fold. And while you're at it, let's get Bowe into camp, because we can't afford him to miss another day.

KCChiefsMan
08-01-2007, 10:30 PM
I'm pretty excited to see the bonecrusher in action!

Bob Dole
08-01-2007, 10:36 PM
I've been saying this for months on other boards...

The Chiefs are going to have an ELITE defense...

Now, the offense...

We're going to have to shut out a lot of teams. 9 points isn't going to win too many games otherwise.

Direckshun
08-01-2007, 10:36 PM
Chiefs can win 10 games this year.

Top 10 defense. If we're a top 10 defense this year, we'll easily have created a top 10 defense far more quietly than any other team in the league this side of Minnesota.

I think it's possible, but I think a lot of things have to happen at the same time this year.

1. DJ needs to become a Pro Bowler (possible).
2. Hali needs to continue to ascend (likely).
3. The DT rotation needs to generate a pass rush (no idea).
4. Pollard needs to bring it (possible).
5. We need some sort of depth at CB (unlikely).

I think this is a top 10 defense.

FAX
08-01-2007, 10:39 PM
I tried to google this up, but all I got was a small amount of spittle.

Last year, what did the top 5 defenses average in terms of scoring allowed? Anybody know how/where to find this information? I tried NFL.com but their stats page doesn't seem to have that information.

What I'm interested in is this. If Hermoine can somehow field a top 5 defense, what level of scoring do we need out of the offense on average to win?

FAX

Direckshun
08-01-2007, 10:43 PM
FAX, I was just at that exact page.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-SCORING/2006/regular?sort_col_1=3

The Chiefs had the 12th ranked scoring defense, allowing only 19.7 points a game.

The top 5?

Baltimore 12.6
New England 14.8
Chicago 15.9
Jacksonville 17.1
Miami 17.7

pikesome
08-01-2007, 10:46 PM
FAX, I was just at that exact page.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-SCORING/2006/regular?sort_col_1=3

The Chiefs had the 12th ranked scoring defense, allowing only 19.7 points a game.

The top 5?

Baltimore 12.6
New England 14.8
Chicago 15.9
Jacksonville 17.1
Miami 17.7

12.6 is pretty damn low.

Bob Dole
08-01-2007, 10:53 PM
12.6 is pretty damn low.

It's still larger than 9.

FAX
08-01-2007, 10:54 PM
Thanks, Mr. Direckshun. That's a huge spread. Even for the NFL.

So, to be safe, we still need an offense that can average 20 plus points a game. Not good. Maybe the D can score a TD or two for us each week.

FAX

Mojo Rising
08-01-2007, 10:54 PM
Top 5 D? We wil be a 15 - 20 D.

DT's are horrible. The ends are aggressive which often leads to over-running plays and poor play vs. the run. Hali has great potential and I like him. He has a lot to prove. Allen still disappears in big games and when called out.

LB's are a question mark as well. Edwards still whiffs on tackles and is a tad light, and now old. There was a reason why Harris was not retained by the Vikes and Raiders. Johnson has a lot of potential and started to play up to the level that he was drafted. However, Merriman was drafted 2 picks ahead of him and SD hasn't had wait for him to develop.

Law and Surtain are serviceable for their role in the cover 2. Their better than average skill does allow the D to get creative at times. Sometimes to their detriment. Law has to stay on his feet.

The Safeties are too slow

There is potential for Allen, Johnson and Hali to be better than average players that border on Pro Bowl level. Other than that we are average to below average.

Direckshun
08-01-2007, 10:55 PM
12.6 is pretty damn low.
That team was armed with a top 5 DL, the best LB corps in the league, the best safety, and a pair of upper echelon corners.

That's the kind of statistical stamp the Chiefs need to bring to the table if they're going to crack top 5.

They're not there yet. The DEs are set, but the DT will take a season to shuffle itself out. The LB corps is on the cusp if Harris can pan out, and the secondary's probably not going to be near that level until more CBs start showing up and Page and Pollard need time to grow.

Top 10 is very realistic, but Top 5 is a reach, and will take another season or two of the improvements we've seen this year.

pikesome
08-01-2007, 10:58 PM
FAX, I was just at that exact page.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-SCORING/2006/regular?sort_col_1=3

The Chiefs had the 12th ranked scoring defense, allowing only 19.7 points a game.

The top 5?

Baltimore 12.6
New England 14.8
Chicago 15.9
Jacksonville 17.1
Miami 17.7

I'd also like to know how NE got 2nd? You know they have a good D but it seems to remain under the radar a bunch.

Oh, and after a quick look the 1997 Chiefs had a 14.5 average.

cdcox
08-01-2007, 10:59 PM
FAX, I was just at that exact page.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-SCORING/2006/regular?sort_col_1=3

The Chiefs had the 12th ranked scoring defense, allowing only 19.7 points a game.

The top 5?

Baltimore 12.6
New England 14.8
Chicago 15.9
Jacksonville 17.1
Miami 17.7

So going from top 12 to top 5 nets you 2 points per game. IMO, slots 5 to 12 are pretty similar. Have we made enough improvements to drop under 16 points per game allowed? That would be a very significant improvement (more than a FG per game).

Direckshun
08-01-2007, 11:11 PM
Mojo Rising,

Two words, way off.

This D, ranked 15-20? Do I need to remind you of the curses our 16th ranked D had to overcome last offseason?

1. We were literally two-deep at DT.
2. Bell at Will.
3. Kawika couldn't cover but the slowest of TEs.
4. Greg Wesley.
5. Lenny Walls at CB.

We've rectified and improved every one of these situations, except for #5, which we've still probably improved.

DTs are horrible? We were two-deep. We dumped Sims and brought in a veteran about six times better, Alphonso Boone. We also drafted two guys who will provide depth and have the potential to start by the end of the season.

DEs are too aggressive? I'll take it. You cry that they overrun plays, yet Allen and Hali managed a statistical barrage that few DE tandems in the league can match -- without a consistent push from the middle, which all other serious DE tandems have.

Edwards whiffs on tackles? So you're saying he could be racking up 170 tackles instead of 140... Harris was not retained for a variety of reasons from the Vikes, most notably cap space and his lack of durability, but he excelled in the Cover 2 and is much faster than Kawika. Johnson plays a completely different role than Merriman, and he's developed fine. He just needs to take it to the next level now.

The safeties' speed is fine. They aren't the fastest guys on the planet (even though Chad Williams and Jon McGraw, their backups, have ideal speed), but speed isn't everything. You can't damn Page for speed especially, as he plays faster than he's timed and came away with three picks playing only a fraction of the team's snaps.

Your problems is inferring that this team has made NO progress over the offseason, or even worse, REGRESSED.

beer bacon
08-01-2007, 11:19 PM
That team was armed with a top 5 DL, the best LB corps in the league, the best safety, and a pair of upper echelon corners.

That's the kind of statistical stamp the Chiefs need to bring to the table if they're going to crack top 5.

They're not there yet. The DEs are set, but the DT will take a season to shuffle itself out. The LB corps is on the cusp if Harris can pan out, and the secondary's probably not going to be near that level until more CBs start showing up and Page and Pollard need time to grow.

Top 10 is very realistic, but Top 5 is a reach, and will take another season or two of the improvements we've seen this year.

The thing that put Baltimore over the top last season was their front seven. Samari Rolle was burnt toast when offenses had the time to actually go at him, but they rarely did. Suggs, Lewis, Scott, and Thomas had a combined 353 tackles and 35 sacks.

Direckshun
08-01-2007, 11:20 PM
Unreal.

beer bacon
08-01-2007, 11:21 PM
Top 5 D? We wil be a 15 - 20 D.

DT's are horrible. The ends are aggressive which often leads to over-running plays and poor play vs. the run. Hali has great potential and I like him. He has a lot to prove. Allen still disappears in big games and when called out.

LB's are a question mark as well. Edwards still whiffs on tackles and is a tad light, and now old. There was a reason why Harris was not retained by the Vikes and Raiders. Johnson has a lot of potential and started to play up to the level that he was drafted. However, Merriman was drafted 2 picks ahead of him and SD hasn't had wait for him to develop.

Law and Surtain are serviceable for their role in the cover 2. Their better than average skill does allow the D to get creative at times. Sometimes to their detriment. Law has to stay on his feet.

The Safeties are too slow

There is potential for Allen, Johnson and Hali to be better than average players that border on Pro Bowl level. Other than that we are average to below average.

Allen totally disappears in big games and he is obviously horrible against the run. That is why he was third on the team with 77 tackles last season.

Hali and Allen had a combined 135 tackles. The Horror!

beer bacon
08-01-2007, 11:23 PM
Unreal.

I really hope Adalius decides to take his signing bonus and moves to Hawaii. I am really sick of NE dominating the AFC.

Mojo Rising
08-01-2007, 11:31 PM
Allen totally disappears in big games and he is obviously horrible against the run. That is why he was third on the team with 77 tackles last season.

Hali and Allen had a combined 135 tackles. The Horror!

Do you remember late in '05 when the lead-up to the Giants game was that they were missing 2 starters on the OL? Then, their LT couldn't play. They had Bob Whitfield come off the bench and call Jarred Allen out.

Whitfield owned Allen and when Barber realized it...Barber ownerd the Chiefs. That was the game that cost us that year.

Allen still disappears in games and parts of games after a big play. He is very streaky and still a detriment in the running game.

He does have game turning ability, however, he needs to focus on every play.

As I mentioned, Allen does have PB potential. During a contract year he will be very motivated.

Bob Dole
08-01-2007, 11:35 PM
As I mentioned, Allen does have PB potential. During a contract year he will be very motivated.

That whole "sober" thing--if true--might help some, too.

beer bacon
08-01-2007, 11:47 PM
Do you remember late in '05 when the lead-up to the Giants game was that they were missing 2 starters on the OL? Then, their LT couldn't play. They had Bob Whitfield come off the bench and call Jarred Allen out.

Whitfield owned Allen and when Barber realized it...Barber ownerd the Chiefs. That was the game that cost us that year.

Allen still disappears in games and parts of games after a big play. He is very streaky and still a detriment in the running game.

He does have game turning ability, however, he needs to focus on every play.

As I mentioned, Allen does have PB potential. During a contract year he will be very motivated.

One game in 2005 does not make an argument. Allen was one of the better DEs in the league against the run last season.

Mojo Rising
08-02-2007, 12:00 AM
Allen had a habit of disapperaing last year too.

My point is that he has a one in three chance to be one of our best defensive players this year. We will only have him for 7/8'ths of the year.

If he steps up in his contract year, and in the 10 step program, he could be a Pro Bowler. He has the best chance.

That leaves us far from a top 5, 8, 10 Defense.

beer bacon
08-02-2007, 12:05 AM
Allen had a habit of disapperaing last year too.

My point is that he has a one in three chance to be one of our best defensive players this year. We will only have him for 7/8'ths of the year.

If he steps up in his contract year, and in the 10 step program, he could be a Pro Bowler. He has the best chance.

That leaves us far from a top 5, 8, 10 Defense.

We were 12th in scoring last season. In order to have finished 8th in scoring defense last season we would have had to given up .6 less points per game. If we would have given up 10 points less last season we would have been 8th in scoring (real) defense.

Silock
08-02-2007, 12:09 AM
It really shows out there in practice. EVERYONE on this defense is a hard worker. The defensive linemen especially. They don't quit.

The linebackers are like brothers. Derrick is the little brother. Today I saw Nap, DJ and Donnie huddled together on the sideline just talking. Donnie brought over a water boy and they grabbed a backup linebacker and used them as "mock linemen."

Then they started going through their own little individual "drill" about how to attack certain blocking schemes. People were talking about how Donnie is going to teach DJ all this stuff - HE IS. The three starting linebackers are practically glued together.

Encouraging stuff. Thanks!

Direckshun
08-02-2007, 12:13 AM
We were 12th in scoring last season. In order to have finished 8th in scoring defense last season we would have had to given up .6 less points per game. If we would have given up 10 points less last season we would have been 8th in scoring (real) defense.
FAR FROM A TOP 10 DEFENSE, WE BE.

FAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH.

http://www.codealchemy.org/ufximages/space/pirate.jpg

Bob Dole
08-02-2007, 12:13 AM
Allen had a habit of disapperaing last year too.

My point is that he has a one in three chance to be one of our best defensive players this year. We will only have him for 7/8'ths of the year.

If he steps up in his contract year, and in the 10 step program, he could be a Pro Bowler. He has the best chance.

That leaves us far from a top 5, 8, 10 Defense.

You missed the Hali Jiu-Jitsu threads?

Mojo Rising
08-02-2007, 12:15 AM
We were 12th in scoring last season. In order to have finished 8th in scoring defense last season we would have had to given up .6 less points per game. If we would have given up 10 points less last season we would have been 8th in scoring (real) defense.


That's because our opponents didn't feel the need to score a bunch of points vs. our O and Herm.

Direckshun
08-02-2007, 12:16 AM
That's because our opponents didn't feel the need to score a bunch of points vs. our O and Herm.
Ahhhhhh... okay.

So basically your rebuttal is that our defense simply survived by the mercy of our opponents. Brilliant!

beer bacon
08-02-2007, 12:18 AM
Ahhhhhh... okay.

So basically your rebuttal is that our defense simply survived by the mercy of our opponents. Brilliant!

Thank God that Jake Plummer, in his wisdom, saw fit to only score 19 points against us.

Direckshun
08-02-2007, 12:24 AM
Thank the lord that Alex Smith spared us from the humiliation of them scoring even once.

Mojo Rising
08-02-2007, 12:51 AM
Last year we ranked 18th (run), 18th (pass) and 16th (total) in ypg. We ran a very conservative offense that forced our opponent to play conservative as well. Hence, the lower point totals for both.

The game vs. the lowly Niners was great (the Niners grew up last year and when we faced them they still s****ed.) They did get better as their new offensive coordinator and second year QB started to gel. Keep in mind Smith had his lone TD the season before on the last game.

The Niners were the worse O the season before and weren't much better when played them.

How good was the D when we faced vs. the Browns when it counted? Derrick Anderson? The Raiders were one Aaron Brooks throw away from driving down the field on us for a victory.

Another Rookie, Seneca Wallace had his way with the D most of the day.

Thanks for bringing up the SF game. KC followed that up with 2 gems. The Cards shredded our D. If they weren't destined to be losers then we would have lost.

Then the D followed that with a shut down performance against the Steelers who were amongst the worse in football at the time.

kcfanXIII
08-02-2007, 01:13 AM
Do you remember late in '05 when the lead-up to the Giants game was that they were missing 2 starters on the OL? Then, their LT couldn't play. They had Bob Whitfield come off the bench and call Jarred Allen out.

Whitfield owned Allen and when Barber realized it...Barber ownerd the Chiefs. That was the game that cost us that year.

Allen still disappears in games and parts of games after a big play. He is very streaky and still a detriment in the running game.

He does have game turning ability, however, he needs to focus on every play.

As I mentioned, Allen does have PB potential. During a contract year he will be very motivated.

i think it was the o'le block of fujita by LJ in the dal game that cost us that season.

BigRock
08-02-2007, 01:13 AM
The Niners were the worse O the season before and weren't much better when played them.

The Niners had the 4th ranked offense in the league when they came to Arrowhead.

Another Rookie, Seneca Wallace had his way with the D most of the day.

Seattle scored 28 points. Here was 21 of them: Huard turned the ball over about 5 feet from KC's endzone, Colquitt's batted pass was returned to the house after the bad snap on a FG, and Law fell down and left his WR open for a 50 yard TD. Seattle managed one actual sustained scoring drive the entire game.

The Cards shredded our D.

From the beginning of the second quarter to the end of the game, the Cards' managed all of 2 field goals.

Yeah, there were bad games like Cleveland. There was also Denver, where the D gave up 9 total points and became the first unit in 40-some years to not let Denver score at home in the first half.

But note that nobody who's talking up the defense is getting their facts as wrong as you did in some of these examples.

Anyong Bluth
08-02-2007, 04:11 AM
****BREAKING NEWS****

Mojo Rising meets back of the woodshed. The D won't be top 5 unless some other units take a pretty nasty fall, but I expect all of the AFC West D's to end up in the top 10.

Tribal Warfare
08-02-2007, 06:13 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=162362&highlight=Whitlock

The KC media is really optimistic this year, but that reminds me what Whitlock said at the end of last season. About false hope

Mecca
08-02-2007, 06:39 AM
I think 10 is about the peak for the defense this year...I expect to see improvement in a lot of area's. I think we need some more Dline help but it's a nice start so far. Unless Allen or Hali develops into an elite player we made need another end also. But the problems are...Pollard is still young I expect at least early he will blow some things it's to be expected. No corner depth behind to older corners that have tended to miss a game or 2. Nap Harris same thing....overall I think it will be a better more athletically gifted defense moving in the right direction that needs some more experience and a few more holes filled in.

Also Mojo is way off with most of what he said but I will agree with 1 thing. Jared Allen does disappear for games at a time. He is very similiar to Aaron Schoble who finishes seasons with 12 sacks but got them all in 6 games and didn't do a lot in the others. At the end of the season the stats look nice but then you realize it was a big games mixed with disappearing. He needs to work on being consistent every single week. That's what seperates him from guys who are the top ends like Taylor and Peppers, those guys are relentless and show up every single game.

TEX
08-02-2007, 06:40 AM
The defense will be good, but it won't matter because the _ffense is going to be worse then the defense is good. IMO, We're headed for a total reverse of the DV years and we've all been there before. However, this time arround our O will be even more predictable than it was under Marty. Bottom line is the more things change - the more they remain the same as the Chiefs are building an incomplete team once again.

the Talking Can
08-02-2007, 06:54 AM
Whitlock live from his hotel room.


I'd say 15-10 is a realistic ranking. I would expect us to be much better at the end of the season. Early on, our young safeties could get burnt. Plus, no Allen.

We won't be a top 10 D till we have better play from the DT position.

King_Chief_Fan
08-02-2007, 06:55 AM
Whitlock is optimistic. The read was better than all of the hate CP articles. We (me at least) will be happy if they are top 10. I will be thrilled if top 5. I don't think that is going to happen this year. Herm is putting the D puzzle together. We may be missing a few pieces, but we won't know for sure until we see what they do.
I am not too worried about the D. (haven't said that in about 5-6 years).

I am concerned about the offense ( I haven't said that in about 5 years). Last years performance was extremely poor. Get LJ and Bowe in camp and I will be a little more encouraged. However, I still think it is going to be a run run pass offense. That is disturbing.

TEX
08-02-2007, 07:02 AM
Whitlock is optimistic. The read was better than all of the hate CP articles. We (me at least) will be happy if they are top 10. I will be thrilled if top 5. I don't think that is going to happen this year. Herm is putting the D puzzle together. We may be missing a few pieces, but we won't know for sure until we see what they do.
I am not too worried about the D. (haven't said that in about 5-6 years).

I am concerned about the offense ( I haven't said that in about 5 years). Last years performance was extremely poor. Get LJ and Bowe in camp and I will be a little more encouraged. However, I still think it is going to be a run run pass offense. That is disturbing.

Very well said.
I'd just like to add that the offense will be a run run pass offense and EVERYONE will KNOW it and we'll still do it. To me, that is what is truly disturbing.

Mecca
08-02-2007, 07:03 AM
Man people are gonna go apeshit when they see what happens when you play a young QB....

And I still think the Chiefs are smart for not giving into LJ.

el borracho
08-02-2007, 07:07 AM
You can kind of see it, but without better play from the defensive tackles they might not be that much better.
And there it is. We have reason to hope but until we see improvement in the middle we won't have a functional cover 2.

el borracho
08-02-2007, 07:08 AM
Vick Dermeil?
Victor Meil

Mecca
08-02-2007, 07:09 AM
So are people already counting down to Sedrick Ellis and Nat Dorsey then?

FAX
08-02-2007, 07:11 AM
We have to have an inside push. No question. But I ask you this ... isn't any push at all better than no pushy whatsoever?

FAX

dirk digler
08-02-2007, 07:16 AM
The defense will be good, but it won't matter because the _ffense is going to be worse then the defense is good. IMO, We're headed for a total reverse of the DV years and we've all been there before. However, this time arround our O will be even more predictable than it was under Marty. Bottom line is the more things change - the more they remain the same as the Chiefs are building an incomplete team once again.

Exactly right. We saw the future against the Colts. All D and no O.

No thanks.

Chiefnj2
08-02-2007, 07:33 AM
Lets win some road games in November and December before declaring the defense "among the league's best".

Also, does Whitlock even attend practice?

JimNasium
08-02-2007, 07:34 AM
Meh, I've read this story before. I want to see it on the field.

htismaqe
08-02-2007, 08:02 AM
Man people are gonna go apeshit when they see what happens when you play a young QB....

And I still think the Chiefs are smart for not giving into LJ.

Playing a 2nd-year QB is NOT a guarantee that you're gonna struggle. In fact, 2nd-year QB's that held the clipboard their first year tend to play better more often than they play worse.

Baby Lee
08-02-2007, 08:32 AM
He better be able to build a balanced and creative offense as well or hes just another DV. Just on the flip flop...
Not exactly a flip flop.
DV had the elements of the offense in place pretty quick [the core of which was FA acquisitions Green, Roaf and Holmes] then spent 4 years failing to get decent D players on any front.
If in a few years our top draft and FA acquisitions on O are the mirror of Sims, Siavii, R-Kal Truluck, Barber, Dalton, etc., then yeah the flip-flop is on.

htismaqe
08-02-2007, 08:56 AM
Not exactly a flip flop.
DV had the elements of the offense in place pretty quick [the core of which was FA acquisitions Green, Roaf and Holmes] then spent 4 years failing to get decent D players on any front.
If in a few years our top draft and FA acquisitions on O are the mirror of Sims, Siavii, R-Kal Truluck, Barber, Dalton, etc., then yeah the flip-flop is on.

Let's just hope the first 3rd-round pick of the Herm era doesn't end up like the first 3rd-round pick of the DV era...

Chief Faithful
08-02-2007, 08:59 AM
This offensive line looks so shitty who knows in reality how good they will do

You made your statement like it was a known fact, but it is not. Thus, I have you assume you are making this statement strictly to stir up crap. Every indication I have seen to date says this offensive line will be very good.

LOCOChief
08-02-2007, 09:12 AM
The defense will be good, but it won't matter because the _ffense is going to be worse then the defense is good. IMO, We're headed for a total reverse of the DV years and we've all been there before. However, this time arround our O will be even more predictable than it was under Marty. Bottom line is the more things change - the more they remain the same as the Chiefs are building an incomplete team once again.

In regards to your signature and as it applies to your post as well, The coach's definitely know more. Does that suprise you?

sedated
08-02-2007, 09:27 AM
people here still think Croyle will start?

Huard did far better behind a crap OLine last year than Green did, what makes you think Croyle could do as good getting the ball out quickly and staying calm under pressure? That's what this O needs with a good D, someone who won't get flustered and make dumb mistakes.

And our OLine won't be as bad as it was last year. There's no way our tackles this year could be as inept as that atrocity

StcChief
08-02-2007, 09:30 AM
Top 10 works for me.

Chief Faithful
08-02-2007, 09:46 AM
Under Edwards the defense progressively gets younger, faster, hungrier and more disciplined. I have every reason to believe this trend will continue. Outside of corner they have improved at every position either through upgrading the starters or upgrading the depth.

I believe top 10 is realistically within reach and top 5 may be possible.

Mama Hip Rockets
08-02-2007, 09:48 AM
i agree, i will be disappointed if this is not a top defense.

Reerun_KC
08-02-2007, 09:51 AM
people here still think Croyle will start?

Huard did far better behind a crap OLine last year than Green did, what makes you think Croyle could do as good getting the ball out quickly and staying calm under pressure? That's what this O needs with a good D, someone who won't get flustered and make dumb mistakes.

And our OLine won't be as bad as it was last year. There's no way our tackles this year could be as inept as that atrocity


Fumbling the ball once a game as a Starting QB didnt give alot of us any faith in Huard...

Please God, dont let Huard start!

LOCOChief
08-02-2007, 09:56 AM
Fumbling the ball once a game as a Starting QB didnt give alot of us any faith in Huard...

Please God, dont let Huard start!

Agreed Reerun, how does it make you feel to have a crazy or LOCO man agree with you?

Huards been a backup his entire career for a reason. He was an outstanding backup last year but a backup all the same. It's hard for me to understand why some people on this board don't want to see KC develope a QB. This could be one of the most exciting things to happen to this team in a long time.

keg in kc
08-02-2007, 10:01 AM
Let's just hope the first 3rd-round pick of the Herm era doesn't end up like the first 3rd-round pick of the DV era...Or the second. Or the third. Or the fouth (well, at least he's still on the team). The fifth at least seems to be developing. Ironic that DV's only succesful 3rd rounder is a punter.

htismaqe
08-02-2007, 10:03 AM
people here still think Croyle will start?

Huard did far better behind a crap OLine last year than Green did, what makes you think Croyle could do as good getting the ball out quickly and staying calm under pressure? That's what this O needs with a good D, someone who won't get flustered and make dumb mistakes.

And our OLine won't be as bad as it was last year. There's no way our tackles this year could be as inept as that atrocity

Every person/reporter at camp says Croyle's throws are better, from his release, to velocity, to everything.

As for Huard staying calm under pressure, have people forgotten that he fumbled NINE TIMES last year?

Hootie
08-02-2007, 10:11 AM
It's funny that the casual fan still thinks Allen can't play against the run...

Last year he was PHENOMENAL against the run and his improvement from 2005 to 2006 was outstanding...shit, 100 tackles and 15 sacks wouldn't even surprise me with this guy...(that would be awesome)

Hootie
08-02-2007, 10:12 AM
I'm a BIG LJ fan...I really am...

But our most valuable player last year was Jared Allen and I really do think that.

Hootie
08-02-2007, 10:16 AM
Every person/reporter at camp says Croyle's throws are better, from his release, to velocity, to everything.

As for Huard staying calm under pressure, have people forgotten that he fumbled NINE TIMES last year?
two of them being in that joke of a game against Cincinnati week 1...

Huard was awesome last year, plain and simple...

You can keep bashing him all you want, but Croyle has no chance to replicate what Huard did last year...not even Damon himself could replicate those performances.

htismaqe
08-02-2007, 10:19 AM
two of them being in that joke of a game against Cincinnati week 1...

Huard was awesome last year, plain and simple...

You can keep bashing him all you want, but Croyle has no chance to replicate what Huard did last year...not even Damon himself could replicate those performances.

9 fumbles, 8 starts. About the only QB's that could recreate that are Culpepper and Dave Krieg.

beach tribe
08-02-2007, 10:20 AM
By mid-season I fully expect the D to be feared.The overall ranking will depend on how we perform at the beginning of the season.In Nov-Dec we will have one of the the top ten units in the game,and be nearly invincible at home with the crowd.(Of course I am putting some stock in Tank,Turk,and Boone)

htismaqe
08-02-2007, 10:20 AM
two of them being in that joke of a game against Cincinnati week 1...

Huard was awesome last year, plain and simple...

You can keep bashing him all you want, but Croyle has no chance to replicate what Huard did last year...not even Damon himself could replicate those performances.

If Croyle starts 8 games this year, I GUARANTEE he will have more than 11 TD passes.

Hootie
08-02-2007, 10:21 AM
he had 7 fumbles in 8 starts...

he had 2 fumbles in a game that was a lost cause before he even got in.

the Talking Can
08-02-2007, 10:21 AM
Huards job is to keep the women away from Brodie.

That's it. And keep the bench warm.

keg in kc
08-02-2007, 10:24 AM
he had 7 fumbles in 8 starts...That right there pretty much sums it up.

Hootie
08-02-2007, 10:26 AM
That right there pretty much sums it up.
this is fun...

let's bash the guy who pretty much saved our season and helped us reach the playoffs for the first time since 2003...

THIS IS FUN

keg in kc
08-02-2007, 10:28 AM
You call it 'bashing'. I call it 'making note of relevant facts'.

You call it 'supporting'. I call it 'burying your head in the sand'.

htismaqe
08-02-2007, 10:28 AM
this is fun...

let's bash the guy who pretty much saved our season and helped us reach the playoffs for the first time since 2003...

THIS IS FUN

Saved our season?

ROFL

Hootie
08-02-2007, 10:32 AM
Saved our season?

ROFL
Yeah, because EVERYONE here thought we had an awesome chance of making the playoffs once Green went down and Huard filled in.

Yep, everyone thought we were in good hands...everyone expected Huard to put up a 98 QB rating...

I'm pretty sure that, had someone made a poll and we knew Green would be out until week 10, less than 1% of all of us would've voted yes to the Chiefs making the playoffs.

Chiefnj2
08-02-2007, 10:34 AM
There is no reason for the D not to be a top 10 unit by November. They will face a lot of teams that are struggling on offense and/or have new head coaches with new systems and/or new OC's. Texans (always have an atrocious OL), Bears (struggle on offense), Vikings (Jackson QB), Chargers (new head coach and system), Jax (new OC and history of poor offense), Oakland (Culpepper and horrible OL). The only team that should pose big offensive problems before the bye week is Cincy.

pikesome
08-02-2007, 10:34 AM
this is fun...

let's bash the guy who pretty much saved our season and helped us reach the playoffs for the first time since 2003...

THIS IS FUN

Just because you placed in a race with your 1976 Caprice Classic doesn't make it a great car. Be reasonable, Huard played really well but he isn't going to be the answer, we need Brodie to play well or show us he can't so we can draft/acquire someone else. We can respect what he did do and note what he couldn't/didn't without going weak-kneed over him.

htismaqe
08-02-2007, 10:35 AM
Yeah, because EVERYONE here thought we had an awesome chance of making the playoffs once Green went down and Huard filled in.

Yep, everyone thought we were in good hands...everyone expected Huard to put up a 98 QB rating...

I'm pretty sure that, had someone made a poll and we knew Green would be out until week 10, less than 1% of all of us would've voted yes to the Chiefs making the playoffs.

Damon "Lug Nut" Huard managed to keep the wheels from falling off.

Give him a medal.

He threw 11 TD's. It's pretty obvious what his role was.

Hootie
08-02-2007, 10:37 AM
Damon "Lug Nut" Huard managed to keep the wheels from falling off.

Give him a medal.

He threw 11 TD's. It's pretty obvious what his role was.
Well...

Apparently we should've dumbed down the playbook for Trent Green then, because he was TEN TIMES LESS EFFECTIVE than Huard.

Trent Green cost us games.

Hound333
08-02-2007, 10:44 AM
Honestly I don't think KC will end up with a top 10 scoring def and it won't be because they didn't play well enough. It will be because the offense keeps getting to many 3 and outs thus putting them back on the field and tiring them out. If Croyle is the QB he will make to many young mistakes and throw int in very bad spots. I don't care how good you are on defense if you keep giving the other team the ball in good field position you are gonna get scored on.

Hootie
08-02-2007, 10:46 AM
Honestly I don't think KC will end up with a top 10 scoring def and it won't be because they didn't play well enough. It will be because the offense keeps getting to many 3 and outs thus putting them back on the field and tiring them out. If Croyle is the QB he will make to many young mistakes and throw int in very bad spots. I don't care how good you are on defense if you keep giving the other team the ball in good field position you are gonna get scored on.
With LJ and Bennett, Croyle should be able to make some easy throws in the play-action game...

Of course, we need a lot out of Bennett and LJ this year.

I honestly expect Bennett to rush for 500 yards this season. He needs to be getting 6-12 carries per game.

htismaqe
08-02-2007, 10:50 AM
Well...

Apparently we should've dumbed down the playbook for Trent Green then, because he was TEN TIMES LESS EFFECTIVE than Huard.

Trent Green cost us games.

We absolutely should have dumbed down the playbook for Green. It could have made him look better, just like it made an over-the-hill career backup look good...

the Talking Can
08-02-2007, 10:54 AM
i literally forget that hootie exists until someone quotes him...


what a ****ing retard...going "Denise" over a career bench warmer....

LMAO

Hootie
08-02-2007, 10:54 AM
We absolutely should have dumbed down the playbook for Green. It could have made him look better, just like it made an over-the-hill career backup look good...
well let's home the playbook is an ultra-dumb mode for Croyle, because he has a tough road ahead of him the first 1/4 of the season.

Hootie
08-02-2007, 10:55 AM
Yeah, you're right talking can...I'm the dumb one on this board.

I'm never right. Nothing I say ever makes any sense...

Yep.

CoMoChief
08-02-2007, 10:58 AM
The bottom line is that you need good players on both sides of the ball. We have all seen what it's like when you try to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. If you are gonna have a good defense, you need good players. I can't think of any good defense that doesn't have a good mix of really good players mixed with some role playing guys. We were so terrible in the draft and FA under DV that we clearly saw the effects of it all. You can't win without defense. If this team gets good pressure up the middle from the interior Dline, then this defense is gonna be scary good. At worst I see this defense being 15th in the NFL, which sucks because that's all we would have needed in the DV era to win us a SB.

Same goes with offense, if you want to have a good offense you need good players. The system we ran under DV required to have pro bowl calibur players at such positions. We had about 7 pro bowlers on that offense if you count Weigman being an alternate IIRC. From what everyone has been saying, Croyle is looking sharp in camp. That will soon change when he has different teams coming at him with different things he's never seen before. You can hold the clipboard all you want but you can't get any better without actually playing snaps on the field. I guess this is gonna have to be a wait n see kind of thing.

If Croyle does well this season, we have the chance to be a good football team. If he struggles like most young QB's in this league that have hardly played, then we are doomed to have a 5 or 6 win season "because at the end of the day" your offense has to score points to win games. The defense isn't going to stop teams all the time because very very very few defenses ever have done that. If we wanna be good we need to avg 24 ppg.

FAX
08-02-2007, 11:02 AM
Just remember, Mr. CoMoChief, there's a "do" in "doomed".

FAX

Hootie
08-02-2007, 11:03 AM
how could we possibly only win 5 or 6 games?

Our QB play can't be any worse than what Green provided us last year...

Assuming LJ plays, how can we be any worse than last year? The only argument would be is we have a tougher schedule...but still, there is no way we aren't going to win at least 7, 8 games...

I just love these preseason power rankings that have us at 23, 24, 25...

It's hilarious. We GOT BETTER this offseason, not worse...we didn't lose anyone of importance...Green and Hall were awful last year, we upgraded considerably at linebacker, safety and defensive line and added a 1st round WR...

CoMoChief
08-02-2007, 11:07 AM
how could we possibly only win 5 or 6 games?

Our QB play can't be any worse than what Green provided us last year...

Assuming LJ plays, how can we be any worse than last year? The only argument would be is we have a tougher schedule...but still, there is no way we aren't going to win at least 7, 8 games...

I just love these preseason power rankings that have us at 23, 24, 25...

It's hilarious. We GOT BETTER this offseason, not worse...we didn't lose anyone of importance...Green and Hall were awful last year, we upgraded considerably at linebacker, safety and defensive line and added a 1st round WR...

Simple, we are playing a rookie QB. We don't have a good core of WR's and a great defense to help out a rookie QB like PIT did with Big Ben.

LJ is holding out, and it doesn't appear he's gonna be with the team any time soon.

Bowe holding out is also going to affect the passing game. The more he's holding out the more it's gonna decrease his PT because he's not gonna be up to par without getting his needed reps, and he didn't really look all that great in mini camp and OTA's this spring either. We have all seen this before.

CoMoChief
08-02-2007, 11:10 AM
If the Chiefs are gonna make the playoffs they must:

-Get interior pressure from the Dline.
-Create turnovers on defense.
-The Oline MUST protect Croyle/Huard.
-WR's must be able to run routes and get open.
-The offense MUST not be as predictable as we've seen with the run run pass offense in INDY last season.
-Croyle needs to not turn the ball over and make good decisions. This all comes with experience, something he does not have.

Hootie
08-02-2007, 11:22 AM
We are a better team than last year...

It's that simple...

And Green played like a rookie QB last year, so the dropoff can't be that much.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Croyle actually played better than Green this year...he was THAT bad last year.

MOhillbilly
08-02-2007, 11:23 AM
im ****ing giddy about the prospect of this years D. a good mix of old and young guys who can make plays and players w/ talent that doesnt need to be hyped by the machine.
The D tackle position and Gunthers play calling worries me the most, more than the offense not being productive.

keg in kc
08-02-2007, 11:31 AM
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Croyle actually played better than Green this year...he was THAT bad last year.Yes he was.

I think it all boils down to the line play, in the end.

dirk digler
08-02-2007, 11:33 AM
Simple, we are playing a rookie QB. We don't have a good core of WR's and a great defense to help out a rookie QB like PIT did with Big Ben.

LJ is holding out, and it doesn't appear he's gonna be with the team any time soon.

Bowe holding out is also going to affect the passing game. The more he's holding out the more it's gonna decrease his PT because he's not gonna be up to par without getting his needed reps, and he didn't really look all that great in mini camp and OTA's this spring either. We have all seen this before.

Exactly right.

Hootie
08-02-2007, 11:36 AM
I'm more worried about our running backs than our quarterbacks...

dirk digler
08-02-2007, 11:37 AM
I'm more worried about our running backs than our quarterbacks...

Why it appears Bennett and Kolby Smith are doing really good in camp?

We are set at RB it all is going to depend on how Croyle plays this season.

Hootie
08-02-2007, 11:42 AM
Why it appears Bennett and Kolby Smith are doing really good in camp?

We are set at RB it all is going to depend on how Croyle plays this season.
I'm worried because we proved last year we can win even when our QB is awful...

but we have no chance if LJ and Bennett aren't getting nice gains and picking up first downs...

If someone told me Bennett would stay healthy the entire season I'd have no problem with him as our #1, he has #1 talent, he just can't stay healthy...

htismaqe
08-02-2007, 12:58 PM
how could we possibly only win 5 or 6 games?

Our QB play can't be any worse than what Green provided us last year...

Assuming LJ plays, how can we be any worse than last year? The only argument would be is we have a tougher schedule...but still, there is no way we aren't going to win at least 7, 8 games...

I just love these preseason power rankings that have us at 23, 24, 25...

It's hilarious. We GOT BETTER this offseason, not worse...we didn't lose anyone of importance...Green and Hall were awful last year, we upgraded considerably at linebacker, safety and defensive line and added a 1st round WR...

:clap:

htismaqe
08-02-2007, 12:58 PM
Simple, we are playing a rookie QB. We don't have a good core of WR's and a great defense to help out a rookie QB like PIT did with Big Ben.

LJ is holding out, and it doesn't appear he's gonna be with the team any time soon.

Bowe holding out is also going to affect the passing game. The more he's holding out the more it's gonna decrease his PT because he's not gonna be up to par without getting his needed reps, and he didn't really look all that great in mini camp and OTA's this spring either. We have all seen this before.

It seems simple, but...

BRODIE CROYLE IS NOT A ****ING ROOKIE.,

Hammock Parties
08-02-2007, 01:02 PM
Every time the Chiefs blitz Brodie in camp, he makes them pay.

He gets the ball out so fast. It's like night and day compared to Trent.

Hootie
08-02-2007, 01:07 PM
Every time the Chiefs blitz Brodie in camp, he makes them pay.

He gets the ball out so fast. It's like night and day compared to Trent.
I'm not sure I can trust training camp, but I'm beginning to be ok with this Brodie Croyle starting week 1 thing...

I just wish we didn't start the year with three tough road games =(

FAX
08-02-2007, 01:07 PM
Every time the Chiefs blitz Brodie in camp, he makes them pay.

He gets the ball out so fast. It's like night and day compared to Trent.

Hey, Mr. GoChiefs ... in a lot of the photos of Croyle, it appears to me that, along with the elf-jump, he's often throwing off his back foot. Please tell me that it's not real.

FAX

Hammock Parties
08-02-2007, 01:09 PM
Hey, Mr. GoChiefs ... in a lot of the photos of Croyle, it appears to me that, along with the elf-jump, he's often throwing off his back foot. Please tell me that it's not real.

FAX

Sometimes you have to throw off your back foot.

Chris Meck
08-02-2007, 01:15 PM
If we field a top ten defense this season, we'll win a bunch of games. Period.

Croyle is in the ideal scenario to break in a young QB. Good defense to back him up? Check. Stud runner to take pressure off? Check. Excellent TE safety valve? Check.

If we utilize play-action (and I would think you'd be dumb not to, with a runner the caliber of LJ drawing 8 and 9 man fronts) Croyle's got the arm to burn you deep. There are no questions whatsoever about his ability to make any throw on the field; only durability issues due to his injury history. Which, if you look at it objectively, two ACL's (one non-contact) and one injury to his left shoulder are what we're talking about. The ACL, once repaired, is more stable than before, although I'd imagine you lose a little lateral quickness. That's a problem if you're, say, a running back. Not if you're a QB.

Huard played well, but is not a guy who's gonna lead you to a SB. Croyle probably isn't there yet either, but has the potential to do so. Why wait?

And I don't agree that the entire offensive system needs to be scrapped. I just think we need to run a more early 90's Dallas version of the offense, in which you run the ball more than you pass, you utilize your TE a lot in the passing game, and use play action to get your big plays. I don't see any reason at all why we shouldn't be able to be successful in that strategy.

Chris

LOCOChief
08-02-2007, 01:16 PM
Every time the Chiefs blitz Brodie in camp, he makes them pay.

He gets the ball out so fast. It's like night and day compared to Trent.


This is great news! I'm excited to have Croyle here and competing. Even in the interviews it's almost like Haurd has conseded the starting qb spot, and Brodies going for it. Do you sense that also?

Hammock Parties
08-02-2007, 01:18 PM
This is great news! I'm excited to have Croyle here and competing. Even in the interviews it's almost like Haurd has conseded the starting qb spot, and Brodies going for it. Do you sense that also?

No. Brodie is humble as hell.

Which is a sign that he knows what's up. :D

FAX
08-02-2007, 01:20 PM
Sometimes you have to throw off your back foot.

ROFL

Thanks.

FAX

Ebolapox
08-02-2007, 02:20 PM
Then they started going through their own little individual "drill" about how to attack certain blocking schemes. People were talking about how Donnie is going to teach DJ all this stuff - HE IS. The three starting linebackers are practically glued together.

well, DUH!

that's the reason they'll be the best linebacking core in team history: that's what nick told me, at least
:hmmm:





















:spock:

chagrin
08-02-2007, 02:26 PM
What's the word on how Donnie edwards looks at training camp?

Dave Lane
08-02-2007, 04:56 PM
Now, the offense...

OH it will be elite all right :)

beach tribe
08-02-2007, 05:11 PM
If we field a top ten defense this season, we'll win a bunch of games. Period.

Croyle is in the ideal scenario to break in a young QB. Good defense to back him up? Check. Stud runner to take pressure off? Check. Excellent TE safety valve? Check.

If we utilize play-action (and I would think you'd be dumb not to, with a runner the caliber of LJ drawing 8 and 9 man fronts) Croyle's got the arm to burn you deep. There are no questions whatsoever about his ability to make any throw on the field; only durability issues due to his injury history. Which, if you look at it objectively, two ACL's (one non-contact) and one injury to his left shoulder are what we're talking about. The ACL, once repaired, is more stable than before, although I'd imagine you lose a little lateral quickness. That's a problem if you're, say, a running back. Not if you're a QB.

Huard played well, but is not a guy who's gonna lead you to a SB. Croyle probably isn't there yet either, but has the potential to do so. Why wait?

And I don't agree that the entire offensive system needs to be scrapped. I just think we need to run a more early 90's Dallas version of the offense, in which you run the ball more than you pass, you utilize your TE a lot in the passing game, and use play action to get your big plays. I don't see any reason at all why we shouldn't be able to be successful in that strategy.

Chris
Bravo 10-6 11-5,although Edwards will never throw as much as Dallas did.

BIG_DADDY
08-02-2007, 05:13 PM
OH it will be elite all right :)

Yea Herm is an offensive genius.

Reerun_KC
08-02-2007, 05:21 PM
two of them being in that joke of a game against Cincinnati week 1...

Huard was awesome last year, plain and simple...

You can keep bashing him all you want, but Croyle has no chance to replicate what Huard did last year...not even Damon himself could replicate those performances.


Your kidding right? These numbers are less than Awesome, actually very below normal for an NFL QB if you ask me...

vs Cinci: 12/20 140yds 1TD 2fmbls: Incredible!
vs Denver: 17/23 133yds 0TD 2fmbls: Masterful!
vs Frisco: 18/23 208yds 2TD: Amazing!
vs Arizona: 26/38 288yds 2TD 1fmbl: Holy Crap!
vs Pittsburg: 16/32 162yds 0TD 1int: No Way!
vs San Diego: 15/27 232yds 2TD 1fmbl:Hall ofFame!
vs Seattle: 17/25 312 yds 1TD 2fmbls: Special!
vs St Louis: 10/15 148yds 3TD 1fmbl: The Best!
vs Miami: 15/38 201yds: WOW!


so at what point did Huard become awesome? I think I missed that memo somewhere?

Calcountry
08-02-2007, 05:37 PM
eh, if we fall to a bottom 20 offense all he did is basically flip it from one kind of suck to another kind of suck.I kind of like the score at will O. Only we needed a different crewchief so that we could pit better, and be ahead at the end of the race.

Hootie
08-02-2007, 06:01 PM
Your kidding right? These numbers are less than Awesome, actually very below normal for an NFL QB if you ask me...

vs Cinci: 12/20 140yds 1TD 2fmbls: Incredible!
vs Denver: 17/23 133yds 0TD 2fmbls: Masterful!
vs Frisco: 18/23 208yds 2TD: Amazing!
vs Arizona: 26/38 288yds 2TD 1fmbl: Holy Crap!
vs Pittsburg: 16/32 162yds 0TD 1int: No Way!
vs San Diego: 15/27 232yds 2TD 1fmbl:Hall ofFame!
vs Seattle: 17/25 312 yds 1TD 2fmbls: Special!
vs St Louis: 10/15 148yds 3TD 1fmbl: The Best!
vs Miami: 15/38 201yds: WOW!


so at what point did Huard become awesome? I think I missed that memo somewhere?
Hope Croyle has a lot of 40-40 600 10 TD games...apparently it takes a lot to impress you.

TEX
08-02-2007, 06:15 PM
Every person/reporter at camp says Croyle's throws are better, from his release, to velocity, to everything.

As for Huard staying calm under pressure, have people forgotten that he fumbled NINE TIMES last year?

True, but Huard has proven that he's a "gamer" both times in his career when he got his chance to shine. You know there's more to a QB than his arm. Shoot, Grbac had a great arm.

Lzen
08-02-2007, 06:17 PM
The Cards shredded our D. If they weren't destined to be losers then we would have lost.

Uh, shredded? The Chiefs allowed the Cards 298 total yards in that game. If they could have averaged giving up 298 yards every game last year, they would have been a top 10 defense (#8).

Lzen
08-02-2007, 06:22 PM
Another Rookie, Seneca Wallace had his way with the D most of the day.

15-30 for 198 yards, 3 TDs and 2 INTS is having his way with our defense? ROFL The Seahawks had 240 total yards in that game. The defense played very well.

Reerun_KC
08-02-2007, 06:37 PM
Hope Croyle has a lot of 40-40 600 10 TD games...apparently it takes a lot to impress you.

I guess it doesnt take much to impress you, you are swallowing the numbers of a QB that was less than stellar last year and you are trying to make him sound as the second coming of Montana...

It really doesnt take alot to impress me, just tired of you sucking off a below average career backup that no one wants but the Chiefs and you....

Hammock Parties
08-02-2007, 06:40 PM
It doesn't matter. I was once fiercely loyal to Damon Huard, and even made a tremendous highlight film glorifying his greatness, but Brodie Croyle is a better player. He was better today playing with backups than Huard was with starters.

Reerun_KC
08-02-2007, 06:44 PM
It doesn't matter. I was once fiercely loyal to Damon Huard, and even made a tremendous highlight film glorifying his greatness, but Brodie Croyle is a better player. He was better today playing with backups than Huard was with starters.


That is good to hear GoChiefs... Hopefully after 18 years of Carls reign, we might have finally, finally developed a QB....

If so, I will become a Herm supporter instead of a Herm is a pathetic coach hater....

the Talking Can
08-02-2007, 06:54 PM
It doesn't matter because Huard has nothing to do with the FUTURE of the Chiefs.

Croyle has everything to do with the future of the Chiefs.

Hootie has the dick hots for a career bench warmer who will be forgotten exactly 3 secs after he retires.

This has to be the dumbest school boy crush ever. At least get horny for a good player, a starter....or don't, hey, bench warmers need fans too.

milkman
08-02-2007, 07:16 PM
There is no reason for the D not to be a top 10 unit by November. They will face a lot of teams that are struggling on offense and/or have new head coaches with new systems and/or new OC's. Texans (always have an atrocious OL), Bears (struggle on offense), Vikings (Jackson QB), Chargers (new head coach and system), Jax (new OC and history of poor offense), Oakland (Culpepper and horrible OL). The only team that should pose big offensive problems before the bye week is Cincy.

I'm betting that OL in Houston doesn't appear to suck nearly as badly this year as it has in the last 5 years, even with Jordan Black there, now that David Carr is gone.

milkman
08-02-2007, 07:19 PM
That is good to hear GoChiefs... Hopefully after 18 years of Carls reign, we might have finally, finally developed a QB....

If so, I will become a Herm supporter instead of a Herm is a pathetic coach hater....

Carl hasn't drafted a QB that was developed here, but he isn't any worse in that regard than the Chiefs prior to his arrival.

This team has never in 44 years of existence, drafted and developed a QB.

Reerun_KC
08-02-2007, 07:29 PM
Carl hasn't drafted a QB that was developed here, but he isn't any worse in that regard than the Chiefs prior to his arrival.

This team has never in 44 years of existence, drafted and developed a QB.

Fair enough.

dtebbe
08-02-2007, 07:54 PM
I agree with him 100% I've been pretty impressed with Whitlock these last couple days.

I think for Fatlock BBQ is like liquor. Since he can't get good BBQ in River Falls, he is actually sober right now and writing stuff that half makes sense.

DT

Logical
08-02-2007, 08:19 PM
I swear, Whitless is bi-polar. However, I'm encouraged by the D, as well. Especially the interesting mix of youth and experience.

If we can hold the enemy to 3 points per half, we should be okay.

FAXYou really think so Mr FAX?:p

Logical
08-02-2007, 08:26 PM
eh, if we fall to a bottom 20 offense all he did is basically flip it from one kind of suck to another kind of suck.Amen brother, preach it.

milkman
08-02-2007, 08:31 PM
I think for Fatlock BBQ is like liquor. Since he can't get good BBQ in River Falls, he is actually sober right now and writing stuff that half makes sense.

DT

Given that theory, I have to ask.

Are you drinking?

Chiefs Pantalones
08-02-2007, 08:33 PM
WHITLOCK: This defense should be among league’s best (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/215125.html)

JASON WHITLOCK COMMENTARY
Posted on Wed, Aug. 01, 2007

RIVER FALLS, Wis. | You know, this Chiefs defense reminds me of the 1998 Dream Team Defense — yeah, the defense that had me loopy and fantasizing about the Chiefs finishing 16-0.

Yeah, that defense, the one with Derrick Thomas and Leslie O’Neal rushing off the ends, James Hasty and Dale Carter locking up receivers, Donnie Edwards running like a deer, Chester McGlockton anchored at the line of scrimmage and Reggie Tongue and Jerome Woods patrolling the middle of the field.

Yeah, the defense that caused Marty Schottenheimer to quit, melted down on “Monday Night Football” and made me get out of the prediction business.

Yes, sir, the 2007 Kansas City defense brings back all of those memories, but in a good way. These guys make me optimistic. They make me think the Chiefs could win 10 or 11 games and be a real threat at playoff time. I’ll never feel the way I did in 1998 again, but there’s nothing wrong with a little excitement.

“I do see similarities,” said Donnie Edwards, a member of the 1998 Dream Team Defense and the 2007 unit. “Man, we had two lock-down corners in James and Dale just like we have now with Ty (Law) and Pat (Surtain). With me, Napoleon (Harris) and Derrick (Johnson), we can all run. Jared (Allen) and Tamba (Hali) are two beasts.

“On paper, this could be a very good defense.”

On paper, the 1998 defense reminded me of the 1985 Bears. The Dream Team turned into a nightmare. It couldn’t stop the run or the pass. McGlockton, the big-ticket offseason acquisition, laid a gigantic turd. Derrick Thomas and Wayne Simmons had bad years.

“Man, I can’t remember what happened that year,” Edwards said. “It seemed like we had internal problems. I just remember the Denver game. What did we finish, 7-9?”

That would be correct. Just nine games short of my prediction.

That won’t happen this year. Not if Larry Johnson reports. This is going to be a very good defensive team. All that’s missing is a dominant superstar, an impossible matchup problem. Kansas City’s defense needs its Brian Urlacher, Deion Sanders, Derrick Thomas, Shawne Merriman, etc.

“Jared Allen is a very, very good football player,” Edwards said. “He’s definitely getting confident and getting the mindset to dominate.”

Yeah, Allen looks the part. Scared straight by the league’s substance-abuse program and looking for a Dwight Freeney-like contract, Allen appears primed to become a 15-sack game-changer at defensive end. He’s tall and lean and nasty, a bigger, stronger, half-step-slower version of Simeon Rice in his prime.

If not Allen, then Derrick Johnson might be ready to put it all together in his third season and become a Pro Bowl linebacker.

Here’s what we know for sure: Allen, Edwards, Law and Jarrad Page are going to create turnovers. Allen, Edwards and Law produce turnovers; it’s part of their football DNA. Page has the quick feet and instincts to get to the ball from his safety position.

Those four are good for four turnovers apiece. You can book that. It’s done.

If Hali and Johnson improve at all, we’re looking at a top-10 defense. If Bernard Pollard uses his massive frame to blow up receivers coming across the middle, then we’re looking at a top-eight defense.

The two rookies in the middle — Tank Tyler and Turk McBride — are going to give the Chiefs more than Ryan Sims, and they’re going to make Ron Edwards and James Reed better.

I’ll be disappointed if this isn’t a top-five defense.

“On paper, it looks like a great defense,” Donnie Edwards repeated. “But we have to play great on Sundays. You don’t become a No. 1 defense on talent alone. You have to get 11 guys to the football. You have to get on the same page. And in a 4-3, everybody has to get in their gaps and trust the other guys. If you’re not in your gap, that’s when the other team is off and running.”

I wish someone had told me that in 1998.

Yeaaaahhhhh righhhhtttt.

Logical
08-02-2007, 08:34 PM
It doesn't matter. I was once fiercely loyal to Damon Huard, and even made a tremendous highlight film glorifying his greatness, but Brodie Croyle is a better player. He was better today playing with backups than Huard was with starters.

Kiss of death, right there.

I am now putting my money on a back-up.ROFL