More from Peter King: MMQB 8/6

[OnTheWarpath15]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/08/05/camp.impressions/5.html

5. I think the three most impressive backs I saw in the last week, in order, have been Jamal Lewis, Cleveland; Marshawn Lynch, Buffalo; and Kolby Smith, Kansas City. That's right, Kolby Smith. You wonder why you don't hear the panicked bleatings of Chiefs worried about Larry Johnson's holdout? Here's why: running backs are among the most replaceable quantities on the NFL landscape. The 5-foot-11, 219-pound fifth-round back from Louisville played in Michael Bush's shadow for much of his college career, and the Chiefs saw enough last year (5.6 yards per carry, quickness around the corner) to think he'd be a good backup for Johnson and Michael Bennett. I do think Johnson will play, and I think he'll report by Labor Day, but if he doesn't, I don't think the Chiefs will have a rushing famine.

6. I think I have no idea why Priest Holmes is in camp with the Chiefs. And neither, frankly, do some Chiefs I talked to.

Can't believe I'm saying this, but:

Couldn't. Agree. More.

Discuss.

[pikesome]

Maybe he is paying attention to the Chiefs for once.

We do seem to be rather flush at RB this TC and he's very right about rushers being replaceable. I don't want to do without Larry but it might not be the end of the world either. I'd be ok with a Bennett/Smith depth chart. Not happy but ok.

[Reerun_KC]

Maybe he is paying attention to the Chiefs for once.

We do seem to be rather flush at RB this TC and he's very right about rushers being replaceable. I don't want to do without Larry but it might not be the end of the world either. I'd be ok with a Bennett/Smith depth chart. Not happy but ok.


So trading LJ would be a solid option at this point? Loading up on some early day picks for next year sounds mighty tempting..

[pikesome]

So trading LJ would be a solid option at this point? Loading up on some early day picks for next year sounds mighty tempting..

I'd entertain an offer of 2 first day picks, a first and something. My biggest worry about giving LJ his money is that by the time the rest of the team is tuned and ready to go, he'll be on the down side and his contract will be an impediment to putting the finishing touches on a SB ready team in a few years. That worry assumes a great many things that might not happen but...

[htismaqe]

I'd entertain an offer of 2 first day picks, a first and something. My biggest worry about giving LJ his money is that by the time the rest of the team is tuned and ready to go, he'll be on the down side and his contract will be an impediment to putting the finishing touches on a SB ready team in a few years. That worry assumes a great many things that might not happen but...

Basically how I feel.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'd entertain an offer of 2 first day picks, a first and something. My biggest worry about giving LJ his money is that by the time the rest of the team is tuned and ready to go, he'll be on the down side and his contract will be an impediment to putting the finishing touches on a SB ready team in a few years. That worry assumes a great many things that might not happen but...

Exactly.

And I'll give Mecca his due credit. He (and others) have been saying this for months.

[htismaqe]

Exactly.

And I'll give Mecca his due credit. He (and others) have been saying this for months.

Yep.

[the Talking Can]

isn't is a moot point?

do players get traded this close to the season?

[007]

Exactly.

And I'll give Mecca his due credit. He (and others) have been saying this for months.
Bite your tongue man. J/K

Mecca has been saying it forever as much as we didn't like it.

[StcChief]

two first day picks for LJ. Why not. I'm sure it's being floated at Arrowhead

[Chiefnj2]

King spends one day in camp and people are ready to believe him? What about his impression of Croyle? Should KC be bringing in another QB?

[Reerun_KC]

I'd entertain an offer of 2 first day picks, a first and something. My biggest worry about giving LJ his money is that by the time the rest of the team is tuned and ready to go, he'll be on the down side and his contract will be an impediment to putting the finishing touches on a SB ready team in a few years. That worry assumes a great many things that might not happen but...


Very solid! I agree 100%... When we are rebuilding we need a mega trade or something to load up on first day picks.. We are 2+ years from really competing in the playoffs anyway...

More picks the merrier at this point...

[pikesome]

I'd entertain an offer of 2 first day picks, a first and something. My biggest worry about giving LJ his money is that by the time the rest of the team is tuned and ready to go, he'll be on the down side and his contract will be an impediment to putting the finishing touches on a SB ready team in a few years. That worry assumes a great many things that might not happen but...

Things that could make trading LJ a bad idea:

1. The team comes together next year or the year after. It could happen, NO improved drastically one year to the next.

2. LJ's longevity is greater than we assume. It's impossible to know how long LJ plays, we're just guessing based on history.

3. The cap goes up fast. We could have enough room to sign a finishing touch even with LJ's monster contract if it balloons.

4. Smith is the next monster RB. If he's a feature back in a year or two it wouldn't hurt as much if we needed to move LJ to a backup role because he's falling off.

And lastly:

5. We draft like crap. So far Herm has overseen two drafts that look pretty damn good but a bad draft next year even with 2 extra first day picks would scuttle any chance of a SB team in a few years.

[pikesome]

King spends one day in camp and people are ready to believe him? What about his impression of Croyle? Should KC be bringing in another QB?

His impressions of Smith jive with reports from other, unrelated, sources while his feelings on Croyle don't. We won't know for sure till games are played but believing in Smith and Croyle isn't crazy ATM.

[OnTheWarpath15]

King spends one day in camp and people are ready to believe him? What about his impression of Croyle? Should KC be bringing in another QB?

Personally, I don't know what to think about Kolby Smith.

Unlike last year, I'm not there to form an opinion for myself.

But for me, that wasn't the point. I was just pointing out that for all the heat Mecca and others have been taking for even suggesting that we don't pay LJ, or that RB's are easier to replace, someone outside the organization, fan or otherwise, shares the same opinion.

Is that enough commas for commatard status?

[htismaqe]

Personally, I don't know what to think about Kolby Smith.

Unlike last year, I'm not there to form an opinion for myself.

But for me, that wasn't the point. I was just pointing out that for all the heat Mecca and others have been taking for even suggesting that we don't pay LJ, or that RB's are easier to replace, someone outside the organization, fan or otherwise, shares the same opinion.

Is that enough commas for commatard status?

Exactly.

[pikesome]

But for me, that wasn't the point. I was just pointing out that for all the heat Mecca and others have been taking for even suggesting that we don't pay LJ, or that RB's are easier to replace, someone outside the organization, fan or otherwise, shares the same opinion.

Mecca's not always wrong, he's just always contrary. Somebody needs to look for the storm clouds instead of the silver lining.

[Messier]

1. The team comes together next year or the year after. It could happen, NO improved drastically one year to the next.


Everyone talks about the Chiefs like they were horrible last season. For a team that was thrown for a loop in the first game, I think they had a darn good year. I know when I saw Green carted off the field I assumed we'd be lucky to win four more games. They weren't great, but they don't need "drastic" improvement, they need improvement to compete in the playoffs.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Bite your tongue man. J/K

Mecca has been saying it forever as much as we didn't like it.
Mecca is the new Gaz.

[Deberg_1990]

Everyone talks about the Chiefs like they were horrible last season. For a team that was thrown for a loop in the first game, I think they had a darn good year. I know when I saw Green carted off the field I assumed we'd be lucky to win four more games. They weren't great, but they don't need "drastic" improvement, they need improvement to compete in the playoffs.


I keep saying the same thing...

I think people around here just like to hate on Herm in general.

[FAX]

Mecca's not always wrong, he's just always contrary. Somebody needs to look for the storm clouds instead of the silver lining.

I completely agree with this, Mr. pikesome. But actually, I'm beginning to worry about Mr. Mecca.

He is displaying many of the characteristics associated with rabies. I'm afraid he may have been bitten by an Olathe girl.

FAX

[pikesome]

I completely agree with this, Mr. pikesome. But actually, I'm beginning to worry about Mr. Mecca.

He is displaying many of the characteristics associated with rabies. I'm afraid he may have been bitten by an Olathe girl.

FAX

If she's hot then it's perfectly ok. :)

[OnTheWarpath15]

I keep saying the same thing...

I think people around here just like to hate on Herm in general.

You think?

If Herm-hating was an Olympic sport, this place would be buried under Gold Medals......


:)

[pikesome]

Everyone talks about the Chiefs like they were horrible last season. For a team that was thrown for a loop in the first game, I think they had a darn good year. I know when I saw Green carted off the field I assumed we'd be lucky to win four more games. They weren't great, but they don't need "drastic" improvement, they need improvement to compete in the playoffs.

New Orleans didn't have a shitty team these last few years, they have an incredibly shitty QB and problems getting the team to "jell". That's why they did so well all of a sudden, the pieces were there, they just needed to get them together. The Chiefs could do the same but we don't know.

[Reerun_KC]

You think?

If Herm-hating was an Olympic sport, this place would be buried under Gold Medals......


:)



True and I would have the majority of those gold badboys... I thought Herm was a Giant Craftsman Toolbox in NYJ... Now that he is the coach of the Chiefs I realized he is a Giant Craftsman Toolbox complete with a 2500 Piece tool set...


I never liked Herm in NYJ and it turns my stomach that he is the coach of the Chiefs. I don't like his press conferences, his lack of game plans, zero in game adjustments and just over all ignorance on the sideline.

Damn where is the Tylenol?

FYI, it was time for DV to go as well. I don't like "DICK" like a lot of our posters do.

[Reerun_KC]

New Orleans didn't have a shitty team these last few years, they have an incredibly shitty QB and problems getting the team to "jell". That's why they did so well all of a sudden, the pieces were there, they just needed to get them together. The Chiefs could do the same but we don't know.


Sean Peyton..........


Who was available when we were wooing Herm from NYJ with draft picks...

[pikesome]

Sean Peyton..........


Who was available when we were wooing Herm from NYJ with draft picks...

Well, if 3 years from now we're still a one and done playoff team I'll ride shotgun on the bandwagon. Until then I'm going to give Herm the benefit of the doubt.

[Reerun_KC]

Well, if 3 years from now we're still a one and done playoff team I'll ride shotgun on the bandwagon. Until then I'm going to give Herm the benefit of the doubt.


Well I for one havent given him the benefit and have caught alot of flack over it...


I think he drafts well, but it is like watching 1989 all over agian with Herm.

Oh well bring on the season already.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Sean Peyton..........


Who was available when we were wooing Herm from NYJ with draft picks...


No one had the faintest clue if Peyton would be a good coach or not.

Let's face it, it helps to sign Brees, have the #2 OVR pick (Some guy named Bush....ask Mecca 'bout him), McAllister, etc.

They brought in countless FA's and made some excellent trades. Most if not all their offseason moves worked out.

I'm not saying Peyton isn't a good coach. I think I'd like to see a few more years before I make that assessment.

But I think it would be fair to say that he wouldn't have done ANY better than 9-7 with the team we had last year.

[Chiefnj2]

..but believing in Smith and Croyle isn't crazy ATM.

There is nothing wrong with being hopeful for Croyle and Smith. It's premature to talk about trading away the #2 rusher in the NFL when your backups are a vet that is always injured and a 5th round pick that has zero NFL carries and had very limited playing time in college.

[Mecca]

Mecca is the new Gaz.

Do I get to be in all the polls?

And anyway I'm really not that contrary, I haven't bashed Herm or what the Chiefs are doing. Now I've been contrary on some of the players I thought the Chiefs should keep, I remember people exploding on me about midseason last year when I said Kawika Mitchell sucked ass and should be let go....

For a good year now I've been pretty in favor of what the Chiefs are doing in general.

[el borracho]

Why can't we simply front-load LJ's contract? That way we compensate him well for the time we expect him to do well (the next two years) and would have more flexibility with his contract if we needed to move him later.

[Mecca]

I apparently shouldn't have turned 810 on today, I thought I might hear some good Chiefs coverage.....

I'm listening to Petro rip on Bowe and say they should have taken Joe Staley....."This team needs a LT and they passed on one for WR with a sub standard 40, that pick may haunt this team"

He's also saying McIntosh sucks....

[pikesome]

No one had the faintest clue if Peyton would be a good coach or not.

Let's face it, it helps to sign Brees, have the #2 OVR pick (Some guy named Bush....ask Mecca 'bout him), McAllister, etc.

They brought in countless FA's and made some excellent trades. Most if not all their offseason moves worked out.

I'm not saying Peyton isn't a good coach. I think I'd like to see a few more years before I make that assessment.

But I think it would be fair to say that he wouldn't have done ANY better than 9-7 with the team we had last year.

They also benefited from trading a certain running back who liked the ganja.

[ct]

No one had the faintest clue if Peyton would be a good coach or not.

Let's face it, it helps to sign Brees, have the #2 OVR pick (Some guy named Bush....ask Mecca 'bout him), McAllister, etc.

They brought in countless FA's and made some excellent trades. Most if not all their offseason moves worked out.

I'm not saying Peyton isn't a good coach. I think I'd like to see a few more years before I make that assessment.

But I think it would be fair to say that he wouldn't have done ANY better than 9-7 with the team we had last year.

I'll wait to pass judgment on Sean Payton until I see if he can build a defense to support that great offense. the Saints looked eerily familiar to some recent Chiefs teams that were damn exciting, but ultimately aggravating.

[htismaqe]

I apparently shouldn't have turned 810 on today, I thought I might hear some good Chiefs coverage.....

I'm listening to Petro rip on Bowe and say they should have taken Joe Staley....."This team needs a LT and they passed on one for WR with a sub standard 40, that pick may haunt this team"

He's also saying McIntosh sucks....

I just don't get it. McIntosh isn't Willie Roaf, we've established that already.

He's also not JORDAN BLACK.

I'm not gonna sit here and suggest that McIntosh is great - hell, I won't even say he's above average.

But he's LIGHT YEARS better than Black and a 275-pound Kyle Turley.

The Chiefs over/under is at 7.5 and he wouldn't bet the over. Interesting, considering we won 9 games last year with a still somewhat mediocre defense and a worse offensive line than we have now.

[Mecca]

He was acting like McIntosh wasn't any better than Black he made the comment "Kyle Turley may end up as the LT which is a scary proposition"

Then he was going on and on about how guys were going to get injured because of the LT problem...I think he's overblowing it.

[htismaqe]

There is nothing wrong with being hopeful for Croyle and Smith. It's premature to talk about trading away the #2 rusher in the NFL when your backups are a vet that is always injured and a 5th round pick that has zero NFL carries and had very limited playing time in college.

It's not premature in light of the fact that he's holding out and reportedly wants an outrageous contract. It's a very real possibility that he won't be here, so it might be prudent to get something out of him while we can.

[dirk digler]

I apparently shouldn't have turned 810 on today, I thought I might hear some good Chiefs coverage.....

I'm listening to Petro rip on Bowe and say they should have taken Joe Staley....."This team needs a LT and they passed on one for WR with a sub standard 40, that pick may haunt this team"

He's also saying McIntosh sucks....

Is Petro up in camp because the McIntosh I saw didn't suck. He actually played really well against the Vikes.

[penguinz]

Petro likes to talk out his ass. I can not remember the last time he said something intelligent about the NFL.

[Mecca]

Is Petro up in camp because the McIntosh I saw didn't suck. He actually played really well against the Vikes.

They're up there starting today through the week, they made several LT jokes about how this team needs to find a LT and going "didn't see one this morning" and chuckling.

[keg in kc]

Petro just got to camp in the last day or two, I don't know how he could have seen enough to say anything yet, since the team was off yesterday.

[htismaqe]

Why can't we simply front-load LJ's contract? That way we compensate him well for the time we expect him to do well (the next two years) and would have more flexibility with his contract if we needed to move him later.

It's not the base salary. Base salaries are so easily manipulated that they've become irrelevant, for both the player and the salary cap.

Signing bonuses are the issue, because the player gets them up front but the team pays for them for the life of the contract.

[Messier]

I just don't get it. McIntosh isn't Willie Roaf, we've established that already.

He's also not JORDAN BLACK.

I'm not gonna sit here and suggest that McIntosh is great - hell, I won't even say he's above average.

But he's LIGHT YEARS better than Black and a 275-pound Kyle Turley.

The Chiefs over/under is at 7.5 and he wouldn't bet the over. Interesting, considering we won 9 games last year with a still somewhat mediocre defense and a worse offensive line than we have now.


I was just going to post something about this. I like Petro, but he's being really harsh about McIntosh. Doesn't he know McIntosh is better than anything we had last year. Petro is saying things like what are we going to do, not if but when, Croyle goes down because of McIntosh.

[Mecca]

Petro just got to camp in the last day or two, I don't know how he could have seen enough to say anything yet, since the team was off yesterday.

He was making comments like "the Dolphins didn't want this guy" "he was playing LT when Drew Brees was awful in SD" stuff like that.

[htismaqe]

Petro likes to talk out his ass. I can not remember the last time he said something intelligent about the NFL.

It's been a couple of years. 810 has gotten to him - he sounds just like Keitzman anymore...

[dirk digler]

They're up there starting today through the week, they made several LT jokes about how this team needs to find a LT and going "didn't see one this morning" and chuckling.

Well he must be blind. I don't think McIntosh gave up any sacks this weekend but I could be wrong

[keg in kc]

He was making comments like "the Dolphins didn't want this guy" "he was playing LT when Drew Brees was awful in SD" stuff like that.Yeah, I've been listening.

And you may be right, Parker, although even if he's gone KK, he's probably still my favorite sports host in KC. Which says a lot about how bad the rest of them are, in a way.

[Mecca]

I'm about 99% convinced Joe Staley is at very best an average RT in the NFL......so bagging on a team for not picking him blows my mind.

It goes back to draft day and the people who wanted to pick a lineman just because no matter if the guy was worthy of the pick or not.

[Messier]

They're up there starting today through the week, they made several LT jokes about how this team needs to find a LT and going "didn't see one this morning" and chuckling.


They're in shells this morning. How can you possible judge when they aren't going full speed?

[Mecca]

They're in shells this morning. How can you possible judge when they aren't going full speed?

Call in and ask them that.......watch as Petro yells at you calls you names and hangs up on you.....

I also find the fact that he basically said Croyle would get injured because of McIntosh pretty absurd.

[Direckshun]

I think the jury's out on LJ's worth to this team. I agree with Pikesome's pro-LJ arguments.

It's entirely possible that LJ's longevity is capable of defying history. The RBs that have broken down after monster rushing seasons remained the team's workhorse. It's entirely possible that LJ doesn't reach 350 touches this year, with the development of Kolby Smith and a revamped Michael Bennett at the handle. Plus, Priest might rejoin us at some point.

Even if LJ disintegrates, he's likely still got three quality seasons left. He may not be a 1,800 yard back for much longer, but he's still going to be good for 1,500 yards of total offense for a long time.

I'd say Croyle's the bigger impediment than LJ is, with all the RB depth we already have. If Croyle doesn't work out, the Chiefs' chances for a Super Bowl in the Herm Edwards era nosedives.

[keg in kc]

It goes back to draft day and the people who wanted to pick a lineman just because no matter if the guy was worthy of the pick or not.Petro was one of those people, too; he's been harping on taking Bowe over Staley for 3 months now, and it started about 3 seconds after the pick. (Meanwhile, the guys on 610 wanted Alan Branch).

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'm about 99% convinced Joe Staley is at very best an average RT in the NFL......so bagging on a team for not picking him blows my mind.

It goes back to draft day and the people who wanted to pick a lineman just because no matter if the guy was worthy of the pick or not.

Goddammit.

I'm agreeing with you again.

Twice in one day.

WTF is wrong with me?

:)

[Messier]

I'm about 99% convinced Joe Staley is at very best an average RT in the NFL......so bagging on a team for not picking him blows my mind.

It goes back to draft day and the people who wanted to pick a lineman just because no matter if the guy was worthy of the pick or not.

Well, also the fact that he felt he needed to bag on Bowe to make his point. I understand Petro doesn't like McIntosh, and he wishes we drafted Staley but why say Bowe was a bad pick?

Also his logic is really twisted. He thinks you NEED a LT from the 1st or 2nd round otherwise you can't compete.

[Mecca]

Petro was one of those people, too; he's been harping on taking Bowe over Staley for 3 months now, and it started about 3 seconds after the pick. (Meanwhile, the guys on 610 wanted Alan Branch).

Petro just annoys me with that shit "you gotta win in the trenches" well um you aren't gonna win in the trenches if you take shitty guys not worthy of the picks...Vermiel used a ton of picks on Dline it never helped cause they were the wrong guys.

I swear some people can't open their damn eyes sometimes when making comments they can't even realize what just went on here for 5 years.

[the Talking Can]

will staley be better than McIntosh this year? highly doubt it....

now image our WR core without Bowe coming in...ugh...I'll take my chances with Bowe, thank you...

[Messier]

Call in and ask them that.......watch as Petro yells at you calls you names and hangs up on you.....

I also find the fact that he basically said Croyle would get injured because of McIntosh pretty absurd.


Thats' what they want I know. Petro is hoping for exactly the reaction that we're having.

[Direckshun]

He thinks you NEED a LT from the 1st or 2nd round otherwise you can't compete.
You do.

Only one playoff team from 2006 had an LT from anywhere lower than a 2nd round pick, and that was Jordan Black, who got devoured by Dwight Freeney.

[Mecca]

Let's ignore the fact that we've needed a WR for about um 20 years now.

Oh here goes Petro with his list about how you have to have a 1st or 2nd round LT to be any good.

[dirk digler]

Hey Mecca is he still talking Chiefs?

[Mecca]

Hey Mecca is he still talking Chiefs?

Appears that way, he's still busting on LT and saying the Chiefs screwed up not resigning Tait.

[Direckshun]

now image our WR core without Bowe coming in...ugh...I'll take my chances with Bowe, thank you...
Yeah, matter of fact it wouldn't be a bad idea for us to maybe spend a high draft pick in 2008 on a WR, too.

[htismaqe]

Yeah, I've been listening.

And you may be right, Parker, although even if he's gone KK, he's probably still my favorite sports host in KC. Which says a lot about how bad the rest of them are, in a way.

He's still my favorite because, like you said, there aren't any viable alternatives.

The guy used to be a fountain of research and knowledge. I never used to have a problem with the way he treated callers (Laz and I have gone round and round about it in the past) because I always felt he could back up his opinion with facts.

Lately, though, he's just gotten bitchy about everything. He doesn't seem at all as well-informed as he used to be, and I find myself agreeing with Laz - the way he treats callers is laughable.

[Messier]

You do.

Only one playoff team from 2006 had an LT from anywhere lower than a 2nd round pick, and that was Jordan Black, who got devoured by Dwight Freeney.


Every team that's ever won had a 1st or 2nd round LT? Really? McIntosh is a 3rd, I guess he just misses the cut. Damn!

[dirk digler]

Appears that way, he's still busting on LT and saying the Chiefs screwed up not resigning Tait.

Cool I just sent him an IM maybe he will bust on me on the air.

I know you can tell how great a player is by working in shells but I was up there all weekend and McIntosh played really well against the Vikings. McIntosh is a million times better than Jordan Black so relax.

[Chief Chief]

Without Roaf & Shields, the KC O-line looks rather ordinary now, which means LJ (and Priest for that matter) just aren't going to run rampantly into defenses' secondaries as they have in the past. Yeah, Bowe will keep a safety from creeping into the box to stop LJ but that's the equalizer to KC having mediocrity along the line. Last time I checked, LJ still had difficulties in catching short, check-down passes and blocking effectively. Also, last time I checked, several RBs of a certain other team (i.e., the Bonkos) had great years but then were traded and didn't have the same success. Why would that be? Maybe it's because they had carried the ball too many times early in their career and their bodies couldn't keep up the pace later on. Just maybe...

Anyway, LJ rates a $12M bonus at best with me. Remember, he isn't worth much when he's failing to hang on to a simple swing pass, and when he's not keeping that extra rusher from getting to our QB, and when the offensive linemen aren't doing their jobs...and how much are we paying them?

[Direckshun]

Let's ignore the fact that we've needed a WR for about um 20 years now.

Oh here goes Petro with his list about how you have to have a 1st or 2nd round LT to be any good.
Again, you do.

LTs that have been picked any lower have fared horrendously in the playoffs in recent history.

[Mecca]

You do.

Only one playoff team from 2006 had an LT from anywhere lower than a 2nd round pick, and that was Jordan Black, who got devoured by Dwight Freeney.

He didn't point out that for a few years San Diego used ROMAN OBEN as a stop gap LT......SD's line was built on the 2nd day of the draft they took McNeil because he was far and away the best guy left in the 2nd round at the time.

[Direckshun]

Every team that's ever won had a 1st or 2nd round LT? Really? McIntosh is a 3rd, I guess he just misses the cut. Damn!
Yeap.

McIntosh is a stop-gap. He can play OG pretty well, and might even be able to hold down RT, so if/when we draft a stud LT we should be set.

[Mecca]

The Chargers did the exact same thing we're doing with McIntosh with Roman Oben, what's the problem?

[htismaqe]

Well, also the fact that he felt he needed to bag on Bowe to make his point. I understand Petro doesn't like McIntosh, and he wishes we drafted Staley but why say Bowe was a bad pick?

Also his logic is really twisted. He thinks you NEED a LT from the 1st or 2nd round otherwise you can't compete.

It's not just that he thinks Bowe was a bad pick, it's WHY.

Because he had a sub-standard 40-time.

[Direckshun]

He didn't point out that for a few years San Diego used ROMAN OBEN as a stop gap LT......SD's line was built on the 2nd day of the draft they took McNeil because he was far and away the best guy left in the 2nd round at the time.
Hey, you can build your OL through the second day. That's what Herm's been trying to do with Stallings and Taylor, who should both be interior lineman in the NFL.

But not LT. LT you've got to pull the trigger in the first two rounds.

[Direckshun]

The Chargers did the exact same thing we're doing with McIntosh with Roman Oben, what's the problem?
How successful have the Chargers been in the postseason?

[Mecca]

It's not just that he thinks Bowe was a bad pick, it's WHY.

Because he had a sub-standard 40-time.

Because we all know how fast you run a straight line 40 is the most important quality in a WR.......let's ask Samie Parker how he's doing.

[dirk digler]

It's not just that he thinks Bowe was a bad pick, it's WHY.

Because he had a sub-standard 40-time.

The Chiefs drafted him because supposedly he is a reliable pass catcher not a burner. Add to the fact he is alot bigger than your average WR he makes a very good target for a QB.

[Mecca]

How successful have the Chargers been in the postseason?

You can argue this till you're blue in the face with me but last year was not the year to be picking LT's. You can say you need this or that but this past draft was not the year. I'd rather not bust on 3 LT picks because my god we are so desperate for one.

[the Talking Can]

Yeah, matter of fact it wouldn't be a bad idea for us to maybe spend a high draft pick in 2008 on a WR, too.


which is why some picks for LJ would be nice...we need a LT, a #1 WR, a young CB, etc...

[htismaqe]

Appears that way, he's still busting on LT and saying the Chiefs screwed up not resigning Tait.

We could have kept Victor Riley too.

[Mecca]

Hey if this year isn't great maybe we can get Sam Baker....I'll back that pick and then all the LT people can shutup.

[the Talking Can]

Staley is an overrated prospect in a weak OL class from a small school...thank god we passed....

BAA

BAA

BAA

[Chiefnj2]

Hey if this year isn't great maybe we can get Sam Baker....I'll back that pick and then all the LT people can shutup.

Pimping a Trojan, what a surprise.

[Mecca]

Someone should call in and tell Petro that Staley is the classic draft player you avoid. A small school player that was thought of a 3rd rounder then worked out and moved into the 1st....

Those are the guys you avoid and have huge bust warning signs on them.

[Direckshun]

You can argue this till you're blue in the face with me but last year was not the year to be picking LT's. You can say you need this or that but this past draft was not the year. I'd rather not bust on 3 LT picks because my god we are so desperate for one.
Hey I agree with you. I didn't like any of the LT prospects except for McNeill in the second round. I thought we should have taken him over that Turk McBride guy that I had never heard of at that point.

I was just debating the point. I understand McIntosh is a stop-gap (unless he continues to only allow 4-5 sacks a season), and will fill his role dutifully until we draft a stud.

But if we're going to go anywhere, we need to get a stud LT, and you only find those in the first two rounds. Period.

[Mecca]

Pimping a Trojan, what a surprise.

He'll be the best LT in next years class Trojan or not.....

[el borracho]

It's not the base salary. Base salaries are so easily manipulated that they've become irrelevant, for both the player and the salary cap.

Signing bonuses are the issue, because the player gets them up front but the team pays for them for the life of the contract.
I'm guessing the Chiefs could structure the guaranteed money into the first year somehow instead of into the signing bonus. Lower signing bonus with a large base the first two years and some combination of roster bonuses and/ or easily met incentives.

Instead of 22 million signing bonus structure a 12 million signing bonus and 10 million roster bonus in the first year. That would be 22 million front-loaded into guaranteed money, no? If it were a 4 year contract the signing bonus would only cost 3 million a year which we could reasonably absorb even if he were traded or released two years from now.

[Direckshun]

Pimping a Trojan, what a surprise.
We want Sam Baker.

I'd support trading up for Sam Baker.

[htismaqe]

Hey if this year isn't great maybe we can get Sam Baker....I'll back that pick and then all the LT people can shutup.

Baker is gonna be a stud, IMO.

The other guy I like is Jake Long, but unless he has a bad season, he's gonna be a top 5 pick. Scott Wright has him overall #1 on his board.

[Mecca]

Hey I agree with you. I didn't like any of the LT prospects except for McNeill in the second round. I thought we should have taken him over that Turk McBride guy that I had never heard of at that point.

I was just debating the point. I understand McIntosh is a stop-gap (unless he continues to only allow 4-5 sacks a season), and will fill his role dutifully until we draft a stud.

But if we're going to go anywhere, we need to get a stud LT, and you only find those in the first two rounds. Period.

McNeill got drafted the year before......last years mid round Tackles were guys like Ryan Harris.

[jAZ]

I heard Peter King on ESPN Radio a few minutes ago say he was from Missouri. I assume that's St. Louis given his ability to trash the Chiefs pretty regularly.

I know this comment probably belongs on a PK thread where he's not quite so supportive... but this one is here, and it'll do.

[Mecca]

I heard Adam Schefter saying Kolby Smith was looking great as well so that isn't just a King thing.

[Direckshun]

McNeill got drafted the year before......last years mid round Tackles were guys like Ryan Harris.
Alright. I'm getting the drafts confused.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I heard Peter King on ESPN Radio a few minutes ago say he was from Missouri. I assume that's St. Louis given his ability to trash the Chiefs pretty regularly.

I know this comment probably belongs on a PK thread where he's not quite so supportive... but this one is here, and it'll do.

That's interesting.

His bio says he was born in Massachusetts and raised in Connecticut.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/writers/peter_king/archive/index.html

[dirk digler]

I heard Adam Schefter saying Kolby Smith was looking great as well so that isn't just a King thing.

He is looking very good IMO. The RB position maybe the strongest it has been in quite some time.

[Direckshun]

Baker is gonna be a stud, IMO.

The other guy I like is Jake Long, but unless he has a bad season, he's gonna be a top 5 pick. Scott Wright has him overall #1 on his board.
2008 is a fantastic year for OTs.

Long and Baker, sure.

But Gosder Cherilus is a monster and a surefire first rounder out of Boston College -- Chiefs probably have the best chance of landing him if everything stays the same.

Barry Richardson is a potential first-rounder, and would be a steal in the 2nd.

Kirk Barton is a 1st or 2nd rounder.

Heath Benedict is a guy out of Newberry, of all places, but he's got the size and is lightning fast. Should fly up some draft boards.

Vanderbilt's got a guy, too, whose size and speed project very well to the NFL, making him a top round pick.

[FAX]

The availability of all these OTs in the next draft are causing me to lean a little more toward the "trade LJ" side of the boat.

FAX

[Messier]

Hey, you can build your OL through the second day. That's what Herm's been trying to do with Stallings and Taylor, who should both be interior lineman in the NFL.

But not LT. LT you've got to pull the trigger in the first two rounds.


Wow. You're mainly right, just about super bowl winners though. However Tony Jones started at LT for the Broncos in 1998 and he was undrafted.

[Mecca]

If the Chiefs could trade LJ for a first and pull down a LT and one of those 2 DT's it would be great, there's 2 DT's made for the Chiefs defense in next years draft.

[Direckshun]

Wow. You're mainly right, just about super bowl winners though. However Tony Jones started at LT for the Broncos in 1998 and he was undrafted.
I understand there are exceptions, and that's a great one.

But yeah, only one team made the playoffs in 2006 with an LT picked lower than the 2nd round, and Black sabotaged our offense repeatedly against the Colts.

[Direckshun]

If the Chiefs could trade LJ for a first and pull down a LT and one of those 2 DT's it would be great, there's 2 DT's made for the Chiefs defense in next years draft.
Can you give me names? I'm in a researching mood.

[Chiefnj2]

The Chiefs should have given up a 5th round pick for Gaither. They could have a future RT on the roster today. Heck with the way Terry has been playing, the kid might have played this year.

[Mecca]

Can you give me names? I'm in a researching mood.

Nat Dorsey out of LSU and Sedrick Ellis out of USC....those guys are perfect fits, big time penetrator get after DT types.

[Messier]

I understand there are exceptions, and that's a great one.

But yeah, only one team made the playoffs in 2006 with an LT picked lower than the 2nd round, and Black sabotaged our offense repeatedly against the Colts.


I agree, and I hope McIntosh is our LT for no more than a few years, but he's better than Black, and Petro just is convinced he's not.

[Direckshun]

I agree, and I hope McIntosh is our LT for no more than a few years, but he's better than Black, and Petro just is convinced he's not.
Well Petro is a dum dum.

[the Talking Can]

2008 is a fantastic year for OTs.

Long and Baker, sure.

But Gosder Cherilus is a monster and a surefire first rounder out of Boston College -- Chiefs probably have the best chance of landing him if everything stays the same.

Barry Richardson is a potential first-rounder, and would be a steal in the 2nd.

Kirk Barton is a 1st or 2nd rounder.

Heath Benedict is a guy out of Newberry, of all places, but he's got the size and is lightning fast. Should fly up some draft boards.

Vanderbilt's got a guy, too, whose size and speed project very well to the NFL, making him a top round pick.


which is why it was right of us to draft WR this year...we'll get a tackle next year...

[htismaqe]

I'm guessing the Chiefs could structure the guaranteed money into the first year somehow instead of into the signing bonus. Lower signing bonus with a large base the first two years and some combination of roster bonuses and/ or easily met incentives.

Instead of 22 million signing bonus structure a 12 million signing bonus and 10 million roster bonus in the first year. That would be 22 million front-loaded into guaranteed money, no? If it were a 4 year contract the signing bonus would only cost 3 million a year which we could reasonably absorb even if he were traded or released two years from now.

Signing bonus is guaranteed. Other bonuses and base salary are not. There are hundreds of ways teams can get around paying roster/incentive bonuses.

It's just not going to happen. If LJ were willing to agree to such things, the deal would already be done and he'd be in camp.

[pikesome]

Signing bonus is guaranteed. Other bonuses and base salary are not. There are hundreds of ways teams can get around paying roster/incentive bonuses.

It's just not going to happen. If LJ were willing to agree to such things, the deal would already be done and he'd be in camp.

He wants that big ass signing bonus because he's aware that RBs with his amount of carries, historically, wear out quick and are relatively easy to replace. The same reasons the Chiefs don't want to give him the money.

[htismaqe]

He wants that big ass signing bonus because he's aware that RBs with his amount of carries, historically, wear out quick and are relatively easy to replace. The same reasons the Chiefs don't want to give him the money.

Yep.

[el borracho]

The only way out of a roster bonus is to cut or trade the player. The only way LJ wouldn't see the money would be an immediate trade; LJ could easily prevent this by inserting a no-trade in the first year clause. I don't know, I admit I'm completely ignorant about how it all works but I think there are ways it could work.

[sedated]

talking about next year's draft before the first preseason game?

jumping the gun just a tad

[pikesome]

The only way out of a roster bonus is to cut or trade the player. The only way LJ wouldn't see the money would be an immediate trade; LJ could easily prevent this by inserting a no-trade in the first year clause. I don't know, I admit I'm completely ignorant about how it all works but I think there are ways it could work.

What if week 14, 2007, he tears his leg up kind of like Culpepper? Bye, bye cash. That's why it's always about the signing bonus. A year of recovery and the Chiefs will have likely moved on, they won't keep him if they have to pay a big roster bonus.

[htismaqe]

The only way out of a roster bonus is to cut or trade the player. The only way LJ wouldn't see the money would be an immediate trade; LJ could easily prevent this by inserting a no-trade in the first year clause. I don't know, I admit I'm completely ignorant about how it all works but I think there are ways it could work.

The Chiefs aren't gonna entertain a no-trade clause.

[el borracho]

What if week 14, 2007, he tears his leg up kind of like Culpepper? Bye, bye cash. That's why it's always about the signing bonus. A year of recovery and the Chiefs will have likely moved on, they won't keep him if they have to pay a big roster bonus.
In the scenario I'm proposing he would get his roster bonus in 2007 not long after signing, say if he is on the roster opening day. Either way, roster bonus or signing bonus, he would get his money unless you think he will somehow be gone before opening day this year which is why I said he (LJ) would need some kind of no-trade in the first year clause. I'm not sure if any of this would be approved by the league, of course.

[el borracho]

The Chiefs aren't gonna entertain a no-trade clause.
Even it the no-trade clause were only for the first year? It seems reasonable to me but I admit I don't know much at all about these contracts. I don't even know if the NFL would approve such a contract (even assuming the player and the organization agreed to it).

[htismaqe]

Even it the no-trade clause were only for the first year? It seems reasonable to me but I admit I don't know much at all about these contracts. I don't even know if the NFL would approve such a contract (even assuming the player and the organization agreed to it).

1) I'm guessing the NFL would look at a 1-year no-trade as an attempt to circumvent the salary cap.

2) I'm guessing that the NFLPA would be opposed to no-trade clauses of any kind, simply because of precedent.

[Easy 6]

Gosder Cherilus is a monster

Damn, i have no idea who that guy is...but with a name like that he probably IS a manster.

Sounds like some insidious disease..."Gosder Cherilus Syndrome".

[ct]

Damn, i have no idea who that guy is...but with a name like that he probably IS a manster.

Sounds like some insidious disease..."Gosder Cherilus Syndrome".

If this desease involves opposing DEs getting repeatedly squished like a bug, then we need a pandemic at Arrowhead next year.

[SBK]

What ever happened to Svitek? Wasn't he the next great white hype?

[Easy 6]

What ever happened to Svitek? Wasn't he the next great white hype?

He's still in the mix & was working at G today.

Theres still hope for him.

[Ebolapox]

The Chargers did the exact same thing we're doing with McIntosh with Roman Oben, what's the problem?

sign of the apocalypse number one trillian: mecca talking positively about the chiefs (and not how they'll positively suck)

[Ebolapox]

Hey I agree with you. I didn't like any of the LT prospects except for McNeill in the second round. I thought we should have taken him over that Turk McBride guy that I had never heard of at that point...

mcneill came out in LAST YEAR'S draft... we'd have had to have passed on bonecrusher to get mcneill, and IIRC, roaf wasn't retired by that point, meaning LT wasn't a concern (and safety was)