Do Kansas Citians have the pocket book power to support the P+L District?

[|Zach|]

I was taking photographs a little while ago downtown and all the construction caught my eye. I have also taken a lot at all the plans. Shops, restaraunts, Sprint Center...the whole bit.

Do you folks really believe Kansas City will be able to support all this?

http://z.about.com/d/kansascity/1/0/x/0/-/-/PowerandLight.jpg

[Adept Havelock]

If Cleveland could, I think KC can. :shrug:

[|Zach|]

If Cleveland could, I think KC can. :shrug:
I really do hope so. I know there isn't a lot to bring people into downtown at night right now...but even so...the place is so amazingly barren. The idea of these places just flourishing all at the same time?

I hope it all works out. It would be great.

[StcChief]

It will happen slowly with some growing pains (some places will make it, others won't)

If it tracks anything like Washington Ave loft district in STL.

[ChiefsCountry]

Basically the P&L district is fixing the things from the 70's that went bad ie Kemper, the shopping malls, etc.

[HonestChieffan]

I think its a huge gamble but something had to be done. To make it, a lot of things have to happen:

1) The money is in the outlying areas..JoCo, Cass County, Jackson County, and northof the river.
Getting that money back to downtown will be a rough go.

2) People with the money and willing to spend it wont go where its hard to get around. No parking in Downtown...any moron can see thats going to be a huge negative.

3) Safety. Downtown will have to have visible active clean, aggressive cops and keep the trash, riffraff, and thugs away. Downtown has never done that. If it becomes a place for the young people who hang out, act ignorant, and not spend money its doomed. Rich folk wont go where they have to put up with trash.

Quality. It has to deliver quality. Im not talking beer joints and sports bars. Food has to be great. The ambiance has to be right. It has to be a great experience. If not...the plaza, JoCo, and Parkville will continue to draw the folks with the cash. Trash has no cash. like it or not...

[Deberg_1990]

I think the money in KC is there. "If you build it, they will come"


Isnt KC building alot of upscale lofts for young, single urbanites? That seems to be the trend in alot of inner cities these days. That will definately help some.

[SLAG]

The short answer:

I highly Doubt it

[Demonpenz]

it's going to be hard to take my car downtown with the pot holes traffic and crime. I would rather go out by the race track. Good roads. well lit doesn't smell like urine

[jiveturkey]

My bet is on the development.

People in this town love to eat out and if it's good they'll drive there to do it. Have any of you spent any time downtown lately? It's already a lot busier at night than it used to be. Try and get a table at Jack Stack or Lydia's on a weekend night.

[Brock]

I don't know why not. This town has needed this kind of stuff for a long time. I hate to say it, but downtown Denver has this place beat all to hell.

[Micjones]

The revitalization project will work for the next 10 years I'd imagine.

I'd look for Westport to have a resurgence itself here very soon.
Local musicians won't be welcome Downtown so the only way the rival entertainment hotspot will be able to compete is to make a renewed commitment to the local music scene.

[2bikemike]

A lot of cities are doing this. I think it will fly. In San Diego we have the Gas Lamp District. It used to be a piece of crap area. They have done a lot to make it a place to be. KC can do the same thing. They just have to put in the things people want. Night clubs and Restaraunts. Some shopping and it will go.

[teedubya]

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I went down there on Thursday to look for office space for my venture thats about to be funded. The area is going to be kick ass. Plus, my office will overlook the Sprint Center, which will kick ass.

[cdcox]

If they get people living downtown in lofts and condos, it will work for sure. Track the $/sf for downtown residential space. If that starts going up, you know it will be successful.

[Valiant]

I think its a huge gamble but something had to be done. To make it, a lot of things have to happen:

1) The money is in the outlying areas..JoCo, Cass County, Jackson County, and northof the river.
Getting that money back to downtown will be a rough go.

2) People with the money and willing to spend it wont go where its hard to get around. No parking in Downtown...any moron can see thats going to be a huge negative.

3) Safety. Downtown will have to have visible active clean, aggressive cops and keep the trash, riffraff, and thugs away. Downtown has never done that. If it becomes a place for the young people who hang out, act ignorant, and not spend money its doomed. Rich folk wont go where they have to put up with trash.

Quality. It has to deliver quality. Im not talking beer joints and sports bars. Food has to be great. The ambiance has to be right. It has to be a great experience. If not...the plaza, JoCo, and Parkville will continue to draw the folks with the cash. Trash has no cash. like it or not...


If the plans go through with Metro North Mall the P&L will not be getting a lot of Northland money.. Metro North is suppose to be half-way razed, lofts and condo's put in with restaurants and a theatre in the park put in.. This is suppose to rival Zona Rosa, so if this is done P&L will be competing with Zona and Metro for the bar scene...

[kcchiefsus]

If the plans go through with Metro North Mall the P&L will not be getting a lot of Northland money.. Metro North is suppose to be half-way razed, lofts and condo's put in with restaurants and a theatre in the park put in.. This is suppose to rival Zona Rosa, so if this is done P&L will be competing with Zona and Metro for the bar scene...

I don't think they will be competing. Zona Rosa is nice but it is more for a young crowd. What do they really have for bars? O'Dowds and Tomfooleries is all I can think of. I prefer the Legends out by the racetrack to Zona Rosa. I live about 10 minutes away from the Legends and about 7 minutes away from Zona Rosa but I would not mind the drive downtown to go to the P&L district.

Personally, I like the changes I have seen in KC in recent years and I have recently started going downtown more often. I think the place is cleaning up.

Plus, the P&L district has one thing Zona Rosa or Metro North will never have. Bazookas and Temptations are a short distance from where the sprint center and the P&L district are located. That is definitely worth the trip downtown.

[Demonpenz]

Ugh. Yeah bazooka's would be a nice selling point that have no game

[cdcox]

If they get people living downtown in lofts and condos, it will work for sure. Track the $/sf for downtown residential space. If that starts going up, you know it will be successful.

From what I can see, loft space in downtown KC in the heart of the P&L district is going for under $200 per square foot. For perspective, it is selling for over $200 per square foot in Knoxville, TN and is going up fast. Looks like a good opportunity to me.

[Bearcat]

I think so... we'll also get a lot more conventions and tourism money. I'm also interested in seeing what happens with the light rail issue.


No parking in Downtown



it's going to be hard to take my car downtown with the pot holes traffic and crime. I would rather go out by the race track. Good roads. well lit doesn't smell like urine

Maybe once people actually go downtown they're realize it's not the traffic-infested, no-parking, bullets-flying, monsters-hanging-from-skyscrapers place I hear from others when I tell them I work downtown.

There are going to be 7000 spots within walking distance of the arena, including 6 stories under the H&R block building and 6 stories north of the arena. There's already plenty of parking elsewhere. It would be no worse than trying to find a place to park on the Plaza.

They have repaved Broadway from basically the bridge to Truman Road, and are working on Truman Road right now... and they're also working on Grand, and have been working on the loop forever. They've even gotten rid of some of the metal plates that had been there since the Royals' WS parade.

I don't hear about crime downtown anymore than anywhere else besides the area east of downtown and KCK. There are already tourist people on street corners to help people during the day; and while they are certainly not the cops it's a good start... and I'm sure it'll be expanded when there's more of a nightlife.

[Demonpenz]

i like the plaza grand fallon is always a good time

[HonestChieffan]

always nice to park in an unlit lot and have to fold your bills into a tiny little wad and slide into a gigantic box.

KC downtown will end up about 2 blocks short of classy

[Dayze]

I hope so; god knows there isn't a lot to do down there.
Other than good eat 'em up joints (Los Corales, etc); not a lot to 'do'.

[redbrian]

People living downtown, young professionals, empty nesters are grabbing up the condo’s faster than they are being built, and these are folks with large quantities of disposable cash.

Parking, I know suburbanites are not really savvy to they ways of the city, they will park in a fifty acre lot and hike a mile to the mall entrance but good grief if they have to walk two blocks they cringe.
Here is an idea if coming from Johnson County, park on the Plaza for free, and ride the Max in.

Crime; not that much crime in the area of the P&L you are more likely to get kidnapped at a Johnson County mall.

Roads; as the infrastructure is repaired and up graded the roads are being paved; Broadway is done between the loop.

Events, no where else in the metro will you get the events you will Downtown, from sporting both professional and collegian and armature, concerts and other entertainments, well except NASCAR and broke down horse racing tracks but we will leave that out there where it belongs.

[HonestChieffan]

after they pay for their high end loft, rent a parking place, get the bill on the car insurance after they do change of address, and find out the city 3x the property tax from what they escrow....yea disposable cash...not to mention they have car payments and student loans.

This entire downtown KC thing is linked to getting some new folks moving in and having someone not gang related on the street after 10pm. And hopefully its not just a larger group than the freak show in crossroads district....should be called crossdress district or crossgender district. Then the second step is drag in Money from those who have it and spend it.

So far the list of teneants being committed in the PL District is the same old same old mall and outdoor shopping center dreck food. If you think someone will go down there to eat at some spagetti factory dive and not go to Garrozos on College where you can walk 20 steps to your car...and have big plans to go see a HOCKEY game....Please.

Sprint Center may be a bigger hay barn than Kemper. KC will be known for having two empty areans with bad access, no parking and a good view of the ally just north of the building.

[Demonpenz]

nascar, greg wolf, lodge, sandstone, pretty much suck agree

[Fire Me Boy!]

The worst part... people visiting KC are going to think Famous Dave's is KC barbecue.

:Lin:

[HonestChieffan]

to the loft dwelling yupsters.....it is

[Demonpenz]

I went to the killers at river market in may. My car had door dings all over it we walked a mile. Down there it smelled like catfish. It swayed me enough not to by incubus or modest mouce tickets They didn't have any it was stand up if you wanted to be close Then they ran out of beer.

[Demonpenz]

i am glad the K didn't move down there I love the parking and being able to tailgate out there. It is easy to get in and out off too.

[chiefqueen]

The worst part... people visiting KC are going to think Famous Dave's is KC barbecue.

:Lin:

Especially if that 21-story hotel is built near JackStack making it impossible to get a table @ JackStack's. (the proposed hotel will not have a restaurant.)

[cdcox]

Geez, some of you people have no vision. Do you think billions of $ of investment in an area might affect the crime rate and the way a neighborhood smells? Have you never been anywhere outside of KC? Neighborhoods far worse than downtown KC all over the nation are being transformed into very desirable living and entertainment districts for over 20 years now. The Inner Harbor area in Baltimore was once just a bunch of deserted docks. Much smaller towns, such as Chattanooga, Okahoma City, and Des Moines have already rehabed their downtown areas with great results.

[redbrian]

Geez, some of you people have no vision. Do you think billions of $ of investment in an area might affect the crime rate and the way a neighborhood smells? Have you never been anywhere outside of KC? Neighborhoods far worse than downtown KC all over the nation are being transformed into very desirable living and entertainment districts for over 20 years now. The Inner Harbor area in Baltimore was once just a bunch of deserted docks. Much smaller towns, such as Chattanooga, Okahoma City, and Des Moines have already rehabed their downtown areas with great results.

most of these folks don't get out of the burbs,


Little boxes on the hillside
Little boxes made of ticky-tacky
Little boxes on the hillside
Little boxes all the same
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same

And the people in the houses
All went to the university
Where they were put in boxes
And they came out all the same
And there's doctors and there's lawyers
And A. E. C. executives
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same

And they all play on the golf course
And drink their martinis dry
And they all have pretty children
And the children go to school
And the children go to summer camp
And then to the university
Where they're all put in boxes
And they come out all the same

And the boys go into business
And marry and raise a family
In boxes made of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same

[Pitt Gorilla]

Moving the K downtown is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard.

[HonestChieffan]

Yep Brian, I have.

Denvers Downtown is becoming a shithole filled with hookers, cops and conventioneers. The light rail laid a turd from the get go.

Real big cities with vision and leadership like Boston, Chicago, SF....all magnificent but not ever haven fallen into decay and squalor and led by loonies like the City Council in KC.

Minneapolis is doing OK...Omaha is just Omaha. Dallas Downtown? Not so much


So ya bud Ive been in a few places and the missing element in KC is a vision long term and a history of success. The longer KC goes with an empty arena, the worse it becomes. Thats why no high end outfits are buying into P and L.....its all low end/low cost/dressed up fast food.

[Simplex3]

Geez, some of you people have no vision. Do you think billions of $ of investment in an area might affect the crime rate and the way a neighborhood smells? Have you never been anywhere outside of KC? Neighborhoods far worse than downtown KC all over the nation are being transformed into very desirable living and entertainment districts for over 20 years now. The Inner Harbor area in Baltimore was once just a bunch of deserted docks. Much smaller towns, such as Chattanooga, Okahoma City, and Des Moines have already rehabed their downtown areas with great results.
Of course it's achievable. The question is whether or not the boobs that the Jackson County and KCMO voting public keep voting in can do it. See, that whole area is famous for it's fraud, crony-ism, and outright lies.

Sure, they're playing nice right now, but I fully expect them to get back to form sooner rather than later.

[underEJ]

I think it will do just fine. I haven't lived full time in KC for 17 years because of the serious lack of anything to do, but I have a house in Midtown, visit often, and can't wait to go to some fun events in downtown revived. The art developments are continuing and making it a very vibrant area. All my old friends who have left are excited to see it thrive so we can come home. I personally hope to split my time about half way between LA and KC when it's all said and done. Right now I'd be too bored. I don't go to the suburbs. I'm a city snob.

Yay Power and Light! And as far as chains go, Gordon Biersch is pretty good.

[KC Jones]

Yep Brian, I have.

Denvers Downtown is becoming a shithole filled with hookers, cops and conventioneers. The light rail laid a turd from the get go.


:LOL:

That would be news to those of us who live in Denver.

[redbrian]

:LOL:

That would be news to those of us who live in Denver.

Not sure what Denver the ole boy has been to but it's not the one I've been to.

He is a real world travler isn't he.

[SBK]

This looks cool. It will bring a ton of money into the area, just like has happened in downtown Des Moines--and now where live in Atlanta in Buckhead, Midtown and even Downtown.