The Defense

[Tribal Warfare]

Where's the Top 10 caliber defense we've been hearing out of TC?

I've watched both preseason games, and the D makes me more uneasy than it did last year since KC the squad is gonna be heavily relied for the base of success. The Chiefs looked mediocre out their, not bad but average. They look solid on one play then forget the fundementals of tackling on another. This is quite troublsome due to the team is gonna lean on the D for holding the opposition's offense to minimal points scored, and trying to be a ball-hawking squad too but the tackling is F*cked and the DT's look rather average.

Tank looks out of shape and needs to lose 20 pounds, Boone looks good on one play then disappears on the next 4 or 5 plays. McBride seems at times lost out their. As I reiterate it really bothers me with reasons given to rely on a middle of the pack D for this season.

[Mr Luzcious]

Rebuilding.

[Tribal Warfare]

Rebuilding.


On Defense it should be no worries KC has established LBs and a good defensive backfield, good DEs, but no presence in the middle.This shouldn't be the worry, the rebuilding issue is on the offense

[jidar]

I agree. didn't like what I saw, more than a few missed tackles and defenders bouncing off of guys.

[Hammock Parties]

What's amazing is that people are sitting here bitching about the defense, and they gave up three points! Three! I'm not saying they were perfect - the tackling was abysmal on a few plays - but you can tell the times have definitely changed.

[Tribal Warfare]

What's amazing is that people are sitting here bitching about the defense, and they gave up three points! Three! I'm not saying they were perfect - the tackling was abysmal on a few plays - but you can tell the times have definitely changed.


Yeah, they also decided to go for it on 4th down's which doesn't mean shit in the preseason, this Defense was suppose to be like the mid 90's D? Those D's never looked borderline shitty like this year's squad

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I think some people's expectations are WAY too high for this year.

We aren't going to win a lot of games, but we'll improve. Like Mr. Luz said, we're rebuilding. This is going to be bittersweet to watch this year. We are NOT a playoff team.

[Tribal Warfare]

I think some people's expectations are WAY too high for this year.

We aren't going to win a lot of games, but we'll improve. Like Mr. Luz said, we're rebuilding. This is going to be bittersweet to watch this year. We are NOT a playoff team.


No Joke, but the Defense is supposed to be a rock, it's the Offense is what should be the most bothersome issue. Defense is suppose to be Herm's specialty, and from gochiefs reports I thought we were gonna be bad MOTHERF*CKERS on that side of the ball. Well the two preseason games have shown me that the base defense hasn't improved from last year specifically the D-Line. What I should be worried about is the Offense's lack of a deep threat at the WR department that actually can catch, and the O-line in general.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

No Joke, but the Defense is supposed to be a rock, it's the Offense is what should be the most bothersome issue. Defense is suppose to be Herm's specialty, and from gochiefs reports I thought we were gonna be bad MOTHERF*CKERS on that side of the ball. Well the 1st to two preseason games have shown me that the base defense hasn't improved from last year specifically the D-Line. What I should be worried about is the Offense's lack of a deep threat the WR department that actually can catch, and the O-line in general.

I, for one, don't think Herm is the answer at coach, but we'll soon see; this year and next.

His conservative style is obsolete.

[Tribal Warfare]

I, for one, don't think Herm is the answer at coach



I never said Herm was a bad coach, but the Defense is developing too slow for my taste for the reason given with Herm's defensive based philosophy.

[Smed1065]

Yeah, they also decided to go for it on 4th down's which doesn't mean shit in the preseason, this Defense was suppose to be like the mid 90's D? Those D's never looked borderline shitty like this year's squad

So they give up 6 instead of 3 instead. Last year I would have been psyched for 6 points in the preseason? The starting D played half the game and not all of them. I agree the tackling was disappointing but I am not so worried until next week and then it might make me so concerned.

[Tribal Warfare]

So they give up 6 instead of 3 instead.



They also gave up hu huge chunks of yardage to a team who's rebuilding on offense in it's 1st year.

[Extra Point]

Hali and Allen looked great. So did Wilkerson. Turk and Tank need more reps.

Wesley. What to do with Wesley?

[ChiefsCountry]

Starting defense has not given up a touchdown this preseason. I could care less if teams march up and down the field as long as they dont freaking score.

[Hammock Parties]

Starting defense has not given up a touchdown this preseason. I could care less if teams march up and down the field as long as they dont freaking score.

Bingo. The other thing that caught my eye was the Dolphins going no-huddle. Our defense really wasn't prepared for that and did a great job.

[Smed1065]

They also gave up hu huge chunks of yardage to a team who's rebuilding on offense in it's 1st year.

Like last year it was scoring that saved them or I should say not TD's.

Do you see a pattern?
We should be fine as long as we meet Herm type teams on offense..............................







:)

[Smed1065]

No Joke, but the Defense is supposed to be a rock, it's the Offense is what should be the most bothersome issue. Defense is suppose to be Herm's specialty, and from gochiefs reports I thought we were gonna be bad MOTHERF*CKERS on that side of the ball. Well the two preseason games have shown me that the base defense hasn't improved from last year specifically the D-Line. What I should be worried about is the Offense's lack of a deep threat at the WR department that actually can catch, and the O-line in general.

I noticed DJ whiff more than once but no started a thread about DJ's game tonight?

I know all players have bad games but @ the Planet and preseason, it surprised me.

[big nasty kcnut]

i think the d is good we just havn't seen our starters play that long and they ar more heads up then any of grob defense and this team will be top 15 or higher.

[ChiefaRoo]

I noticed DJ whiff more than once but no started a thread about DJ's game tonight?

I know all players have bad games but @ the Planet and preseason, it surprised me.

DJ had a bad game. This is the year where KC finds out if he really is the stud everyone said he was coming out of college. He can do it, but will he?

[Ebolapox]

it's the effing preseason. do you really think that they've let the mad scientist (gunther) go to work yet?

[Chiefs=Champions]

DJ had a bad game. This is the year where KC finds out if he really is the stud everyone said he was coming out of college. He can do it, but will he?

I'm sorry but DJ did NOT have a bad game. Yes he missed one tackle ONE, but that can be improved upon very quickly. DJ was all over the place, and when i saw he only had three tackles posted i was shocked. When it comes to regular season and he misses crucial takles like that ONE tackle then i will worry, however if it wasnt for that tackle, in the limited time he played he was very solid and impressed me alot.

P.S. not having a go at you just stating my opinion.

[Smed1065]

I'm sorry but DJ did NOT have a bad game. Yes he missed one tackle ONE, but that can be improved upon very quickly. DJ was all over the place, and when i saw he only had three tackles posted i was shocked. When it comes to regular season and he misses crucial takles like that ONE tackle then i will worry, however if it wasnt for that tackle, in the limited time he played he was very solid and impressed me alot.

P.S. not having a go at you just stating my opinion.

One?

You must have went to get popcorn or were the one on the cell phone.

Shocked with 3 tackles that could have doubled ona ordinary night for DJ.

Hello DJ's agent.
That jockstap was in your mouth I guess.

Great game DJ

[the Talking Can]

I can't wait to see Gun watching film of those missed tackles.

Our starting DTs still get no pressure on the QB. Just like last year, Hali and Allen fly to the QB only to watch him step up and avoid them. Allen would have had 2 sacks if we had a DT getting any pressure.

Wilkerson looked good with the 2nd and 3rd stringers.

Safties and LBs whiffed badly on some plays. Hope that is a fluke.

[Ultra Peanut]

Damnit, if they keep this up, there's no WAY we'll win the Preseason Super Bowl. :deevee:

I can't wait to see Gun watching film of those missed tackles.God, I wish Hard Knocks was all season long.

[Bwana]

There are some positive signs to work with, but there were WAY to many missed tackles. From that angle, it reminded me of one of Dickey Vs teams on that side of the ball. Herm needs to take about three days with the D and make them work on that aspect of the game, or we are going to be up poop creek.

[htismaqe]

Yeah, they also decided to go for it on 4th down's which doesn't mean shit in the preseason, this Defense was suppose to be like the mid 90's D? Those D's never looked borderline shitty like this year's squad

Umm, the 90's D wasn't this mythical unit like you're making it out to be. They gave up lots of yards, lots of times. And Dale Carter was notorious for making a great play and following it by getting burned for a TD. The 90's D created turnovers and scored. They weren't a shutdown unit.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kanindex.htm

[ChiefaRoo]

Umm, the 90's D wasn't this mythical unit like you're making it out to be. They gave up lots of yards, lots of times. And Dale Carter was notorious for making a great play and following it by getting burned for a TD. The 90's D created turnovers and scored. They weren't a shutdown unit.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kanindex.htm


Points allowed is all that matters and they did that twice in the 1990's with the lowest points allowed.

[htismaqe]

Points allowed is all that matters and they did that twice in the 1990's with the lowest points allowed.

Precisely.

The current defense hasn't given up a TD yet. They've given up yards.

Which immediately brings out the "what is wrong? this is isn't the 90's D!"

Fact is, the 1990's defense only finished in the top 10 in yardage 4 times under Marty. Their best year (1997) they finished 1st in scoring and FIFTEENTH in yardage.

[Hootie]

I assume no one is taking into account that we basically sent ZERO blitzes and sat back in base coverage the entire first half...

Let's wait until week 1 of the REGULAR season to start judging ANYTHING...

[Hootie]

Precisely.

The current defense hasn't given up a TD yet. They've given up yards.

Which immediately brings out the "what is wrong? this is isn't the 90's D!"

Fact is, the 1990's defense only finished in the top 10 in yardage 4 times under Marty. Their best year (1997) they finished 1st in scoring and FIFTEENTH in yardage.
Exactly.

I see the Chiefs being a VERY GOOD defense this year, but in a Cover 2, we're always going to be a "bend don't break" kind of defense, giving up underneath passes left and right...that's just how it works, but we'll have a very good red zone defense and force a lot of turnovers once teams start pressing and trying to take shots down field...

[dirk digler]

Precisely.

The current defense hasn't given up a TD yet. They've given up yards.

Which immediately brings out the "what is wrong? this is isn't the 90's D!"

Fact is, the 1990's defense only finished in the top 10 in yardage 4 times under Marty. Their best year (1997) they finished 1st in scoring and FIFTEENTH in yardage.

Yep. In 2 pre-season games they have given up 6 points. Pretty damn good if you ask me.

[tmax63]

I saw some missed tackles out there last night but I also saw some solid tackles. Sapp made a stop on 3rd down that was nice. I thought the D did okay but later in the game their 3rd-4th stringers beat the Chiefs 3rd-4th stringers. I thought Croyle made a nice drive and showed a glimmer of what he can do then made a rookie mistake on the next one. Huard didn't look like he was fighting very hard for the starting qb spot but they didn't let him open it up very much. The way the line looked I thought Printers made his case for having a mobile qb pretty well. Ross made a case for Priest to make the team in his place IMHO.

[htismaqe]

I assume no one is taking into account that we basically sent ZERO blitzes and sat back in base coverage the entire first half...

Let's wait until week 1 of the REGULAR season to start judging ANYTHING...

Not even then. Probably best to wait until about Week 4.

See 2003.

[Tribal Warfare]

Umm, the 90's D wasn't this mythical unit like you're making it out to be. They gave up lots of yards, lots of times.X
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kanindex.htm





Yes, and do you know how the generated those turnovers? It was caused by the overall pressure of DT Neil Smith, and pretty damn goo D-Tackles . That D had a great rush defense. thus putting the oppisition where they had to pass. This D doesn't have that inside D-Tackle that would occupy or blow past the oppisitions O-line which gave them a astonishing turnover ratio from pressuring the QB.

[Tribal Warfare]

Like last year it was scoring that saved them or I should say not TD's.








:)



Yeah, that's playing with fire, especially when the oppisition , has players that can deliver quick strikes in the endzone.

[Chiefnj2]

Bingo. The other thing that caught my eye was the Dolphins going no-huddle. Our defense really wasn't prepared for that and did a great job.
You really think they did a "great" job?? Trent was underthrowing and the receivers were dropping passes. There were a lot of unforced errors on Miami's behalf.

[htismaqe]

Yes, and do you know how the generated those turnovers? It was caused by the overall pressure of DT Neil Smith, and pretty damn goo D-Tackles . That D had a great rush defense. thus putting the oppisition where they had to pass. This D doesn't have that inside D-Tackle that would occupy or blow past the oppisitions O-line which gave them a astonishing turnover ratio from pressuring the QB.

They don't have them YET, but the flashes I've seen from McBride and Tyler have me wanting to see more. They're going to make mistakes, just like Brodie, but they have the upside and athleticism to take it to a new level.

[bringbackmarty]

Precisely.

The current defense hasn't given up a TD yet. They've given up yards.

Which immediately brings out the "what is wrong? this is isn't the 90's D!"

Fact is, the 1990's defense only finished in the top 10 in yardage 4 times under Marty. Their best year (1997) they finished 1st in scoring and FIFTEENTH in yardage.
best year was 95, and we were 1 and 4 in the respective aforementioned categories.

[Chris Meck]

Neil Smith was a defensive end, not a tackle. He played what is now Tamba Hali's spot.

[DJJasonp]

DJ did miss some tackles, but he was also flying around everywhere and was in on a lot of plays (one where he went low through the line of scrimmage and tripped up the runner for no gain)

One thing about the D that has impressed me so far is people are flying to the ball....there's not a lot of one on one tackles...lots of gang tackling....and I've been impressed with a lot of big hitting as well.

I think our defense is going to be fine (maybe even top 10).

After watching those first few drives of the game...and the play calling...I think we have much more serious things to worry about this year other than the defense.

[htismaqe]

best year was 95, and we were 1 and 4 in the respective aforementioned categories.

That was one year.

The Chiefs defense under Marty averaged like 13th in yards allowed over those 10 years.

[Deberg_1990]

What's amazing is that people are sitting here bitching about the defense, and they gave up three points! Three! I'm not saying they were perfect - the tackling was abysmal on a few plays - but you can tell the times have definitely changed.


Exactly. Yes, they missed a few tackles. But they have come a long way since 2 or 3 years ago.

[Chief Faithful]

DJ did miss some tackles, but he was also flying around everywhere and was in on a lot of plays (one where he went low through the line of scrimmage and tripped up the runner for no gain)



The starting defense looked like it will be ready when it is time to pick it up a notch.

The DJ reference was a beautiful thing. That was the second play in a row where DJ went low and made a tackle behind the line. And Edwards was a monster in traffic. The starting LB core is outstanding. They are doing things I have not seen a Chiefs LB do in decades.

I have no doubt this defense at worst is top 10.

[GoHuge]

I never said Herm was a bad coach, but the Defense is developing too slow for my taste for the reason given with Herm's defensive based philosophy.He's had two years.....

[Tribal Warfare]

He's had two years.....



Yeah 1st year is the muligan because of a new scheme, and the second year dictates what his team is all about

[Tribal Warfare]

They don't have them YET, but the flashes I've seen from McBride and Tyler have me wanting to see more. They're going to make mistakes, just like Brodie, but they have the upside and athleticism to take it to a new level.


so you agree that the D-line's interior is mediocre? This was my main point besides the the complete void of proper tackling fundementals on a string of plays

[Wile_E_Coyote]

Now picture Eric Hicks strolling after Jake Plummer

[Chris Meck]

Young players will make mistakes. It's how they become veterans. Get used to it.

[Brock]

Wow, stupid thread.

[Tribal Warfare]

Young players will make mistakes. It's how they become veterans. Get used to it.


They make mistakes, but will they learn from it? D-Line isn't the most cerebral of positions on the football field either one is quick and strong, or they're not.

[htismaqe]

so you agree that the D-line's interior is mediocre? This was my main point besides the the complete void of proper tackling fundementals on a string of plays

Edwards and Reed look mediocre.

Tyler and McBride look inexperienced. They shown flashes of obvious physical talent that the other guys don't appear to possess.

[FAX]

I'm on the doom train.

FAX

[Tribal Warfare]

Tyler and McBride look inexperienced. They shown flashes of obvious physical talent that the other guys don't appear to possess.



potential is scary, because one doesn't know the said player can reach to that apex consistently

[BigRock]

Because it deserves repeating...

While Edwards wants to win today against Cleveland, don’t expect him to try anything fancy. Last preseason, the Chiefs ran about eight plays on offense. And they ran exactly one defense the entire time.

“You should should have seen Gun (defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham). He was going crazy. The players were howling. They were like, ‘Coach! Coach!’ And I said, ‘Nah, run it again.’

“You know why? It makes you tough. When you play Cover 2, you have to be very disciplined and very tough. And that’s all I’m looking at. Also, there are no excuses. A player can’t say, ‘Well, I didn’t know what to do.’ Yeah, you did. It’s the same coverage.”

[htismaqe]

potential is scary, because one doesn't know the said player can reach to that apex consistently

Potential is far less scary than perpetual mediocrity.

[Chief Faithful]

Edwards and Reed look mediocre.

Tyler and McBride look inexperienced. They shown flashes of obvious physical talent that the other guys don't appear to possess.

But, the wild card, Boone looked good.

[Chief Faithful]

potential is scary, because one doesn't know the said player can reach to that apex consistently

What you are saying reminds me of Ryan Sims. The thing is we have already seen more effort from Turk and Tank than we did from Sims. I think Turk and Tank are really going to help the rotation this year.

[kcxiv]

The Mid 90's defense used to bend like a champ, but theyrarely ever broke. Thats the same thing thats happening here. They will bend and bend, but they stepped up when they had to. IF they can keep them to hell 3-4 3's instead of 7's your doing great.

[mylittlepony]

I saw huge similarities with the Defence that came out for the second pre season game against NYG last year. The Giants ran all over us and the tackling looked just like it did against Miami, when the regular season came rolling by it looked alot better. Its just pre-season really, cant make to much out of it.

[B_Ambuehl]

Realistically if the D is as good as it was last year I'll be happy. The d-tackle spot hasn't really been upgraded. Harris isn't an upgrade over Mitchell. Losing Sammy Knight will hurt in the running game. Page can't tackle anybody. The only true upgrade is Donnie Edwards.

The schedule is tougher and the offense most assuredly won't be on the field as long. Both of those put even more pressure on the D.

[ChiefsCountry]

Realistically if the D is as good as it was last year I'll be happy. The d-tackle spot hasn't really been upgraded. Harris isn't an upgrade over Mitchell. Losing Sammy Knight will hurt in the running game. Page can't tackle anybody. The only true upgrade is Donnie Edwards.

The schedule is tougher and the offense most assuredly won't be on the field as long. Both of those put even more pressure on the D.

Man you are retarded.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Man you are retarded.


LMAO

Beat me to it.....

[talastan]

Again the O-Line and D-Line are where it all begins and ends. Turk and Tank, and Boone will need to pick it up. Gunther will be sure to help them out with some clever blitzing schemes. O-Line will decide if either QB can succeed and if we are able to move the chains with our running game.

[beer bacon]

I saw huge similarities with the Defense that came out for the second pre season game against NYG last year. The Giants ran all over us and the tackling looked just like it did against Miami, when the regular season came rolling by it looked alot better. Its just pre-season really, cant make to much out of it.

Even with the couple big runs Brown had, we still only allowed 3.6 ypc in the first half. We had a lot of stuffs.

[FAX]

Due to the miracle of Sopcast, it's difficult to tell.

But, have we generated any kind of push or pressure up the middle with our DTs in the first two games?

FAX

[B_Ambuehl]

Where are all the upgrades? Both of the starting safeties are young and have growing pains to get through yet. None of the rookie DTs are even gonna start. Somene tell me where the defense is so much better other than ROLB.

[htismaqe]

Where are all the upgrades? Both of the starting safeties are young and have growing pains to get through yet. None of the rookie DTs are even gonna start. Somene tell me where the defense is so much better other than ROLB.

One of the rookie DT's is gonna start at DE.

[go bo]

* * *

Tank looks out of shape and needs to lose 20 poundsdid you see him with his shirt off in hard knocks?

sucker is covered with huge globs of fat...

he needs to lose a lot more than 20 pounds...

he needs to get a sleep study and then a cpap machine...

i'm sure he could slay awake during the day (as opposed to drifting off to sleep in meetings) if he'd just use a cpap machine....

even if he lost 50 pounds, that guy would still be huge...

did you see the play when tank knocked a running back on his ass in the backfield?...

at first i thought he had killed the guy...

i see why they call him tank...

this might turn out to be a fun season...

[go bo]

so you agree that the D-line's interior is mediocre? This was my main point besides the the complete void of proper tackling fundementals on a string of playsby d-line's interior i assume you mean the dt's...

once tank learns how to play in the nfl, he's going to be a monster, a really big monster...

and mcbride will move back inside once jared gets done with his suspensiuon...

imagine tank and turk together on the d-line... (if they can get tank in football shape and teach him his role on rhe defense)...

watching tank flatten people sends little quivers down imy spine...

[Tribal Warfare]

did you see him with his shirt off in hard knocks?

sucker is covered with huge globs of fat...

he needs to lose a lot more than 20 pounds...






yeah the guy had 4 rolls of fat where his ribs should be

[Hammock Parties]

Wilkerson looked really good at DT last night. Everyone else kinda sucked. On passing downs anyway. He was the only one getting penetration.

[FAX]

So, are you guys saying that we did, indeed, get some push/penetration up the middle by the DTs?

FAX

[OnTheWarpath15]

Wilkerson looked really good at DT last night. Everyone else kinda sucked. On passing downs anyway. He was the only one getting penetration.

I thought Boone did a pretty good job, especially this being his first game.

There were several plays where he either made the play, or turned the play aside because he was clogging the hole.

[Hammock Parties]

I thought Boone did a pretty good job, especially this being his first game.

There were several plays where he either made the play, or turned the play aside because he was clogging the hole.

I've been meaning to go back and watch him, because we need him. I didn't see the dude penetrating on passing downs though, and that's what he's here for.

[Easy 6]

Wilkerson looked really good at DT last night. Everyone else kinda sucked. On passing downs anyway. He was the only one getting penetration.

Yep, he really did look good out there, last year has carried over.

But i was also very disappointed with the penetration from the rest, Boone & Edwards looked to be doing exactly what i hated about Edwards last year...stand the guy up & just hand battle him without pushing into the pocket.

They need to tighten that shit up.

[B_Ambuehl]

I think Wilkerson should start at RDE in place of Allen for the first 2 games.

[Hammock Parties]

I think Wilkerson should start at RDE in place of Allen for the first 2 games.

I'm kinda leaning that way. McBride looks a little heavy for an edge rusher. I'd rather just play him inside on passing downs where he can beat a guard or something.

[Mecca]

My opinion is in the first half the defense will look good, but with the offense doing a lot of 3 and outs and putting them back out there and in general not being a good offense.....

They'll be tired by the end of games and give up points then.

[TEX]

My opinion is in the first half the defense will look good, but with the offense doing a lot of 3 and outs and putting them back out there and in general not being a good offense.....

They'll be tired by the end of games and give up points then.

Yep, except it will be at the end of each half and especially at the end. This is going to be far worse for the "D" than "scoring a lot" was. I can't believe some actually believe that was bad... :shake:

[kcchiefsus]

Yeah, they also decided to go for it on 4th down's which doesn't mean shit in the preseason, this Defense was suppose to be like the mid 90's D? Those D's never looked borderline shitty like this year's squad

And this squad isn't going to be borderline shitty either so quit your bitching.

[kcchiefsus]

Wow, stupid thread.

Agreed.

[kcchiefsus]

Realistically if the D is as good as it was last year I'll be happy. The d-tackle spot hasn't really been upgraded. Harris isn't an upgrade over Mitchell. Losing Sammy Knight will hurt in the running game. Page can't tackle anybody. The only true upgrade is Donnie Edwards.

The schedule is tougher and the offense most assuredly won't be on the field as long. Both of those put even more pressure on the D.

- So a Boone, Edwards, Tyler, Reed, McBride rotation is not an upgrade over a Edwards, Reed, Sims, (Stephen) Williams rotation at DT?

- Yes, Napoleon Harris is an upgrade over Mitchell. Mitchell could not cover worth a damn. Napoleon Harris had 3 interceptions last year in the cover 2. He is a perfect fit here.

- Knight is a strong safety, Page is a free safety. The loss of Knight has nothing to do with Page. Bernard Pollard will take over where Knight left off.

Your an idiot.

[kcchiefsus]

Where are all the upgrades? Both of the starting safeties are young and have growing pains to get through yet. None of the rookie DTs are even gonna start. Somene tell me where the defense is so much better other than ROLB.

- Derrick Johnson is going to breakout.
- Tamba Hali will be improved in his second year.
- Who cares if none of the rookie DT's will start. In this defense that doesn't matter. We rotate defensive linemen so they are still going to contribute.
- Who gives a shit if Pollard and Page are young players. Both have a year of experience under their belt and are ready to knock some heads off.

As somebody else mentioned, your a retard.

[Mojo Rising]

As much as I love Gun...he is the reason the D will cost us victories this season.

Gun likes un-convential schemes that rely on flooding zones and superior talent to create pressure behind the line of scrimmage. With game changers like DT, N Smith, D Carter, K Ross, A Lewis he had the luxury of rolling the dice with his play calling.

We do not have that talent on this team (Hali and Allen are the only PB possibilities we have.)

Couple that with the fact our head coach runs a defense that is the polar opposite (cover 2.) Herm wants to keep all of the plays in front of the D and let the O make mistakes. A big part of this is to let the superior talent that we don't have create mistakes.

We need to have defensive coordinator that runs the type of d the hc does. Guns d lacks discipline. Discipline is the foundation of Herm's d.

The player I am most excited about on our D is Hali. I was hoping DJ would develop into a stud but so far I am disappointed. He was the next LB taken after Merriman and has a lot to prove to deserve his high first round draft position.

[milkman]

Who cares?

With or without great defensive play, this team isn't going anywhere this year.

So if it takes a little longer for these guys to develop than some hope, it's no big deal.

We are not going to win a lot of games this year, so just enjoy the youth movement and the growth.

Not every player is going to pan out, but there is some talent to build with.

[milkman]

As much as I love Gun...he is the reason the D will cost us victories this season.

Why would anyone love Gunt?

The guy is useless.

He's never built a defense.

Those defenses of the 90s were Marty's.

This defense is Herman ****ing Edwards.

Gunt had 3 years to build a defense under Dick, and his defenses sucked as badly as Spinners'

I just don't get why anyone thinks that Gunt has ever accomplished anything.

He's a useless POS.

[Tribal Warfare]

And this squad isn't going to be borderline shitty either so quit your bitching.


If the D is down right mediocre it will be, take off the rose colored glasses

[Tribal Warfare]

Who cares?

With or without great defensive play, this team isn't going anywhere this year.




If the Defense plays like the mid-90's squad , they might surprise of course that is if everything gels on Offense with the O-line, Croyle, and Bowe but this is the perfect world scenario

[Sure-Oz]

The defense should keep us in most games, my worries is with the offense specifically.

[Rasputin]

They have to start Brodie this year because he brings "It" to the table. An energy that both the Offense and Defense can feed off of. I saw life in players when Brodie got into the game. The Chiefs went right down the field and scored a TD, next they forced a turnover on Defense. That is going to be the way it is this season Brodie fireing the ball down field for TDs, and the D getting turnovers. Now even if Brodie throws INTs, (and he will) not to panic because our Defense is going to get the ball back for him. With Huard we are dead in the water, with Brodie we have life for the whole team and we are going to kick ass.

It is a work in progress, I'm sure we will have set backs on both sides of the ball but as the season goes on the better the team gets and watch out other teams will not want to play against :arrow:

[milkman]

If the Defense plays like the mid-90's squad , they might surprise of course that is if everything gels on Offense with the O-line, Croyle, and Bowe but this is the perfect world scenario

Last time I checked, we don't live in a perfect world.

[Chief Faithful]

Why would anyone love Gunt?

The guy is useless.

He's never built a defense.

Those defenses of the 90s were Marty's.

This defense is Herman ****ing Edwards.

Gunt had 3 years to build a defense under Dick, and his defenses sucked as badly as Spinners'

I just don't get why anyone thinks that Gunt has ever accomplished anything.

He's a useless POS.

So you are saying good defenses are built by head coaches and bad defenses are made by defensive coordinators? If you give Marty and Herm the credit for the good defenses then you need to be fair and give the bad defenses to DV. If you weren't hating on Gun so much maybe you could see that Gun is a big part of the current resurgence.

Even under DV we saw improvement in the defense each year even though Gun was not allowed to pick his own coaching staff. With Robinson we saw the defense crumble to the worst in the NFL in the same period of time.

[Skip Towne]

It is true that Gun's defenses are only good when he has a mentor around.

[Tribal Warfare]

Last time I checked, we don't live in a perfect world.



Again, if everything worksout, I'm a type of person who looks at all possible scenarios.

[milkman]

So you are saying good defenses are built by head coaches and bad defenses are made by defensive coordinators? If you give Marty and Herm the credit for the good defenses then you need to be fair and give the bad defenses to DV. If you weren't hating on Gun so much maybe you could see that Gun is a big part of the current resurgence.

Even under DV we saw improvement in the defense each year even though Gun was not allowed to pick his own coaching staff. With Robinson we saw the defense crumble to the worst in the NFL in the same period of time.

No, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that Gunt is a marginal DC.

He's a bad talent evaluator, and he can't build a defense.

Under Marty, and now Herman ****ing Edwards, Gunt wasn't given the reins to the defense.

Under Dick he was.

[milkman]

Again, if everything worksout, I'm a type of person who looks at all possible scenarios.

Ah.

You're one of those.

[Chief Faithful]

No, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that Gunt is a marginal DC.

He's a bad talent evaluator, and he can't build a defense.

Under Marty, and now Herman ****ing Edwards, Gunt wasn't given the reins to the defense.

Under Dick he was.

I'll agree that any DC needs a HC that believes in defense to really be successful. Also, it has helped a lot that Edwards strength is talent evaluation. Herm was a top notch scout before he became a DB coach. It has been a big boost to Gun to have an HC that can correctly evaluate talent.

As for Edwards not giving the reins to the DC you have to remember that Gun was Edwards first choice in NY and KC for DC. Edwards and Gun have both said several times in the media that they are and have always been on the same wave length to the point it is frightening. Unless they are lying, which would be out of character for both, then it says what we are seeing is as much Gun's vision as Edwards. This suggests that Gun does have the reins although Edwards, as the HC, has final say.

Second, with Edwards, according to Edwards and Gun, Gun had significant influence on selection of the defensive assistants. According to Edwards for example, Krumrie was Gun's choice.

With DV the situation was just the opposite. Gun had no say on who would be his assistants.

Based on what we have heard in the media it appears to me that Gun had to live with what he got under DV, but has had almost total control under Edwards.

Either way, Gun is a big part of the current resurgence.

[milkman]

I'll agree that any DC needs a HC that believes in defense to really be successful. Also, it has helped a lot that Edwards strength is talent evaluation. He was a top notch scout before he became a DB coach. It has been a big boost to Gun to have an HC that can correctly evaluation talent.

As for Edwards not giving the reins to the defense you have to remember that Gun was Edwards first choice in NY and KC for DC. Edwards and Gun have both said several times in the media that they are and have always been on the same wave length to the point it is frightening. Unless they are lying, which would be out of character for both, then it says what we are seeing is as much Gun's vision as Edwards. This suggests he does have the reins although Edwards, as the HC, has final say.

Second, with Edwards, according to Edwards and Gun, Gun had significant influence on the defensive assistants. According to Edwards for example, Krumrie was Gun's choice.

As for DV the situation was just the opposite. Gun has no say on how would be his assistants.

Based on what we have heard in the media it appears to me that Gun had to live with what he got under DV, but has had almost total control under Edwards.

Either way, Gun is a big part of the current resurgence.

Personally, I don't believe half of anything any coach has to say, and am skeptical of the other half.

As far as Gunt is concerned, I don't even believe he knows what the truth is.

[Chief Faithful]

As far as Gunt is concerned, I don't even believe he knows what the truth is.

Maybe it takes a delusional personality to be successful coaching and leading a defense. Robinson's biggest problem, besides bad talent choices, was he got too cerebral with his schemes.

Besides, the nearest you and I will ever get to knowing what really goes on inside the bowls of Arrowhead his by watching Hard Knocks. The only thing we can really judge is the results. The results of the current resurgence says Gun is getting the job done when Robinson could not.

[milkman]

Maybe it takes a delusional personality to be successful coaching and leading a defense. Robinson's biggest problem, besides bad talent choices, was he got too cerebral with his schemes.

Besides, the nearest you and I will ever get to knowing what really goes on inside the bowls of Arrowhead his by watching Hard Knocks. The only thing we can really judge is the results. The results of the current resurgence says Gun is getting the job done when Robinson could not.

Yeah.

And maybe you can make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

[teedubya]

The D is going to be fine. The O is what is going to be completely shittyesque.

[Chief Faithful]

Yeah.

And maybe you can make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

I guess my sarcasm was lost in the translation.

My point is Gun knows what he is doing and doing a great job.

[Mojo Rising]

Why would anyone love Gunt?

The guy is useless.

He's never built a defense.

Those defenses of the 90s were Marty's.

This defense is Herman ****ing Edwards.

Gunt had 3 years to build a defense under Dick, and his defenses sucked as badly as Spinners'

I just don't get why anyone thinks that Gunt has ever accomplished anything.

He's a useless POS.

When he had talent he did much better than his predecessor, Dave Adolph.

[milkman]

I guess my sarcasm was lost in the translation.

My point is Gun knows what he is doing and doing a great job.

And my point is that he's a suckass coach, and the only reason he appears to be doing a great job is because he has someone holding his hands.

[milkman]

When he had talent he did much better than his predecessor, Dave Adolph.

Yeah, Adolph sucked, andis on the same level as Spinner.

But as is often said around here, better than bad does not equal good.

[Chief Faithful]

And my point is that he's a suckass coach, and the only reason he appears to be doing a great job is because he has someone holding his hands.

I'll bet it takes guts to stand your ground when all the evidence is contrary.

[milkman]

I'll bet it takes guts to stand your ground when all the evidence is contrary.

I don't know about that.

What evidence?

The fact that Gunt was inconsistent in his first turn as DC here?

The fact that his "Falcon" scheme really hurt DT's career?

The fact that he took so long to get the defense to show improvement, when other coaches have changed their team's fortunes virtually overnight?

The fact that guys like Bell and Knight were the guys on his "wish list" a couple of years ago?

[Demonpenz]

we aren't very good on either side of the ball nor special teams

[Chief Faithful]

I don't know about that.

What evidence?

The fact that Gunt was inconsistent in his first turn as DC here?

The fact that his "Falcon" scheme really hurt DT's career?

The fact that he took so long to get the defense to show improvement, when other coaches have changed their team's fortunes virtually overnight?

The fact that guys like Bell and Knight were the guys on his "wish list" a couple of years ago?

Some of his experiments have not worked well, that we can agree on, but I'll bet he learned a lot in those mistakes.

I don't believe teams fortunes virtually change overnight. Show me a 32 defense that turned top ten the next year. Usually those teams that seem to change over night or make big leaps in a single year have a lot of good young talent they have been developing for a few years. I believe that is what the Chiefs have been doing the last two years and this is the year where their fortunes on defense will change.

As for Bell he sucks and Knight, while not great, did mediocre. I'll agree with you that Gun is not the best talent evaluator and it helps to have someone like Herm setting the direction and making the final calls. Gun is not HC material he tops out at DC.

Even with all the mistakes, we have seen noticeable improvement in the defense each year since he replaced Grob. That is fact.

I won't say Gun is the best, but he does not "suckass" and his results are better than mediocre.