Conversation we haven't had: Waivers.

[Direckshun]

As far as I understand it, sometime between your last preseason game and your first regular season game, we whittle our team down to a 53-man squad and the 8 man practice squad. The practice squad, of course, belonging to people who don't have the opportunity to make the team (either they're not quite at that level or the position is too deep), usually young guys who need another year of development.

But. Before you can place a player on the practice squad, you have to put him on a bizarre form of waiting list called waivers, a period where the player is totally available for anybody else in the league to pick him up.

If he clears waivers, he's on your practice squad and he's yours. But there is that brief moment when anybody in the league can pounce. This happened with 2006 5th round pick Marcus Maxey last year. The Chiefs believed he needed more time to develop, placed him on waivers, and the Bears snatched him up (before releasing him later in the season).

Historically, do we usually lose a player or two a year off of waivers? Do we usually claim a player or two off somebody else's waivers? I wouldn't put it past this team -- under the Herm Edwards tenure, we've brought in people from the Arena Football league, Division III, and players who've been completely out of football for a while.

Thoughts.

[Redrum_69]

Put Larry Johnson on Waivers

[pikesome]

I'm not 100% but it seems like the Chiefs lose more people to the waiver wire than they pick up. Didn't Lilja go that way too?

If I remember right anyone who gets cut, for whatever reason, goes through the wire.

[Direckshun]

Why would they need to go through a waiver wire if they've been cut? They're available either way.

Another question for those more knowledgeable than I: how does claiming a player off waiver wire work -- do you have to bid for the player, or is it first-come, first-serve?

[Fire Me Boy!]

Also happened with Ryan Lilja... Colts' STARTING left guard.

"Claimed off waivers from Kansas City on September 6, 2004…originally signed as FA by Kansas City on April 27, 2004…waived on September 5, 2004."

I remember after the Colts signed him we actually said that we tried to sneak him on the practice squad. Obviously, it didn't work.

Still pisses me off. The dude's from KC, went to K-State... we HAD him and tried to sneak him on the PS, and he quickly became a starter for the Colts.

[jAZ]

Ryan Lilja, starting LG for the Colts... was a guy they tried to sneak on the PS.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Ryan Lilja, starting LG for the Colts... was a guy they tried to sneak on the PS.
Thank you, Mr. Repost.

:p

[jAZ]

Still pisses me off. The dude's from KC, went to K-State... we HAD him and tried to sneak him on the PS, and he quickly became a starter for the Colts.
Not to make it worse, but I think he started there that same season, IIRC.

[pikesome]

From the NFL Fact Book:
WAIVERS
The waiver system is a procedure by which player contracts or
NFL rights to players are made available by a club to other clubs
in the League. During the procedure, the 31 other clubs either file
claims to obtain the players or waive the opportunity to do so—
thus the term “waiver.” Claiming clubs are assigned players on a
priority based on the inverse of won-and-lost standing. The
claiming period is three business days from the beginning of the
League Year through the last business day before July 4, and 24
hours after July 4 through the conclusion of the regular season.
If a player passes through waivers unclaimed, he becomes a free
agent. All waivers are no recall and no withdrawal. Under the
Collective Bargaining Agreement, from the beginning of the
waiver system each year through the trading deadline (October
17, 2006), any veteran who has acquired four years of pension
credit is not subject to the waiver system if the club desires to
release him. After the trading deadline, such players are subject
to the waiver system.

So vets with 4 yrs in don't go if it's before the trading deadline, every one else does.

[jAZ]

Why would they need to go through a waiver wire if they've been cut? They're available either way.

Another question for those more knowledgeable than I: how does claiming a player off waiver wire work -- do you have to bid for the player, or is it first-come, first-serve?
There is an order.. just like in FFL, IIRC.

[pikesome]

Why would they need to go through a waiver wire if they've been cut? They're available either way.

Another question for those more knowledgeable than I: how does claiming a player off waiver wire work -- do you have to bid for the player, or is it first-come, first-serve?

It goes by draft spot, the first picking team gets first dibs then down the line.

[Direckshun]

Somebody break that shit down.

[pikesome]

Not to make it worse, but I think he started there that same season, IIRC.

That's how I remember it.

[Bowser]

We also tried to sneak George Layne through waivers a few years back, but the Panthers snatched him up. Layne was LaDanian Tomlinson's fullback at TCU. And, iirc, didn't we lose KU receiver Isaac Byrd like this a while back, as well?

[Direckshun]

It goes by draft spot, the first picking team gets first dibs then down the line.
Follow up.

So team after team has an opportunity to claim any players off waivers, or just one player at a time?

Since Raiders are going first this year, they can only select one player and have to wait all the way through the Colts before getting another shot?

[ChiefsfaninPA]

Ryan Lilja, starting LG for the Colts... was a guy they tried to sneak on the PS.

It worked out good for us. Brian Waters isn't too shabby.

[Bowser]

Follow up.

So team after team has an opportunity to claim any players off waivers, or just one player at a time?

Since Raiders are going first this year, they can only select one player and have to wait all the way through the Colts before getting another shot?

Correct. It works the same way as the supplemental draft, in order of slotting.

[pikesome]

Somebody break that shit down.

Which shit? Essentially anyone who meets the requirement for the waiver wire marches their happy butt, metaphorically speaking, past the other 31 teams in the same order as draft day. Whoever picks him gets first chance to sign him. If no team picks him up he becomes a FA.

[Direckshun]

It worked out good for us. Brian Waters isn't too shabby.
I think Will Shields was working out for us, too.

[Direckshun]

So vets with 4 yrs in don't go if it's before the trading deadline, every one else does.
I wonder why they make that distinction.

To give younger players greater opportunity to get on the field?

[pikesome]

I wonder why they make that distinction.

To give younger players greater opportunity to get on the field?

To give 4yr men greater flexibility to negotiate their contracts.

[Direckshun]

What kind of contract negotiations come out of waivers?

Does the player and a team operate from essentially a blank slate in negotiations, or does the picking-up team have to accept whatever contract the waived player might have been under prior to waivers?

[pikesome]

On a related note, I hate ****ing Fantasy Football. Do a search for info on the NFL's waiver wire and it's a never ending series of FF pages pontificating on waiver steals.

[pikesome]

What kind of contract negotiations come out of waivers?

Does the player and a team operate from essentially a blank slate in negotiations, or does the picking-up team have to accept whatever contract the waived player might have been under prior to waivers?

I'm not sure, see my last post for the result of my search so far.

on edit:

As best I can find the outstanding contract is just picked up by the receiving team. If there isn't a contract they're not really getting "cut" so waivers don't apply.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Not to make it worse, but I think he started there that same season, IIRC.
He did. That's why I said he "quickly" became a starter.

And yeah, we had Waters and Shields, and bother were doing quite well. But you gotta wonder if he'd have been able to play tackle... and in my opinion, it all starts on the OL and DL... you do NOT get rid of quality players at any position on the line.

[patteeu]

As far as I understand it, sometime between your last preseason game and your first regular season game, we whittle our team down to a 53-man squad and the 8 man practice squad. The practice squad, of course, belonging to people who don't have the opportunity to make the team (either they're not quite at that level or the position is too deep), usually young guys who need another year of development.

But. Before you can place a player on the practice squad, you have to put him on a bizarre form of waiting list called waivers, a period where the player is totally available for anybody else in the league to pick him up.

If he clears waivers, he's on your practice squad and he's yours. But there is that brief moment when anybody in the league can pounce. This happened with 2006 5th round pick Marcus Maxey last year. The Chiefs believed he needed more time to develop, placed him on waivers, and the Bears snatched him up (before releasing him later in the season).

Historically, do we usually lose a player or two a year off of waivers? Do we usually claim a player or two off somebody else's waivers? I wouldn't put it past this team -- under the Herm Edwards tenure, we've brought in people from the Arena Football league, Division III, and players who've been completely out of football for a while.

Thoughts.

Not only that, but even after they make it through waivers and the Chiefs (or any other team) signs them to a practice squad, they are completely unprotected. Any team can sign them at any(?) time.

[patteeu]

I wonder why they make that distinction.

To give younger players greater opportunity to get on the field?

I agree with Pikesome that it's intended to benefit the veteran players. Whatever the reason, I'm pretty sure that the mechanics are a part of the collective bargaining agreement.

[pikesome]

Not only that, but even after they make it through waivers and the Chiefs (or any other team) signs them to a practice squad, they are completely unprotected. Any team can sign them at any(?) time.

To their 53 man roster. AFAIK you can't poach a player from a practice roster to put on your own practice roster.

[B_Ambuehl]

Lilja is not even a very good guard no way could he play tackle. Even if he was on this team he still might only be 3rd string left guard behind Waters and Bober.

[pikesome]

I sent an email to the Chiefs (using their web site and got back this response from Brad Kuhbander, the Chiefs' Manager of Football Information.

Thank you very much for replying. The one question I haven't been able to answer is what benefits grabbing a player off of waivers gives a team. Can the player only negotiate with that club? Can he say "no, I don't want to play for you, I want to go to ____"? Is there some kind of exclusivity for signing? I know contracts in the NFL are byzantine at best but I'm having a tough time understanding the place the waiver wire has in the NFL.
Once a player is put on the waiver system, that player is awarded to the first team that claims him. He cannot negotiate with any team he wants.
Teams like the waiver system because when you get a player you assume that player's contract. Sometimes those contracts are better than if you signed that player as a free agent. It also keeps that player from signing a player with a rival.

He sent me two emails, I asked for more info the second time around, very nice in my book. Answering little questions from a nameless fan halfway through the preseason so quickly is appreciated by me.