Bill Simmons on the Chiefs

['Hamas' Jenkins]

This is f*cking embarrassing.

31. Kansas City Chiefs
Can't NFL Films produce 32 versions of "Hard Knocks," so every team gets properly covered? Consider what we learned about the '07 Chiefs. The Brodie Croyle-Damon Huard QB battle was so uninspiring, Herm Edwards was forced to fake a scene in his office where he "agonized" about which guy to choose. (We haven't seen bad acting like that on HBO since ... oh, wait, we see it every week with Kevin Connelly and Adrian Grenier. My bad.) Their receivers were so bad, some random Arena League guy showed up in Episode 2 and nearly made the team. Their rookie kicker looked Kathy Ireland-level shaky in the preseason, although he's definitely the best left-footed African-American kicker in NFL history. Their best defensive player will miss the first four games following a pair of drunk-driving convictions. They put so much mileage on their franchise running back last season that he held out under the logic, "If you're making me become the next Earl Campbell, could you at least pay me up front with a giant signing bonus?" And if that's not enough, poor Herm became a summer TV laughingstock on par with Corey Haim, the Idaho senator, Parisa The Uptight Real World Roommate and Miss South Carolina.

(Does Herm seem like a fantastic guy? Absolutely. Would I want him coaching my favorite NFL team? Only if I was gunning for the No. 1 overall pick. The good news was that "Hard Knocks" finished on time every week -- it's the first time Herm ever finished a season without screwing up the clock.)

[L.A. Chieffan]

WTF Simmons, Jareds only out 2 games.

[KcMizzou]

Allen will miss 2 games, not 4.

[Mr. Plow]

Dear God. I knew we were bad, but man.....this is starting to hurt a little bit.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I have a hard time taking anyone seriously that thinks Jared Allen is suspended for the first FOUR games of the season.

And honestly, I'm not sure why anyone gives a shit what writers think of the team.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Allen will miss only two games and Bill Simmons sucks dead donkey dicks!

[L.A. Chieffan]

I like Simmons usually, he's pretty funny and honest even about the teams he likes.

[JBucc]

AARGH I HATE BILL SIMMONS NOW!!!!

[Skip Towne]

What a dumb motherf*cker. They seem to follow Hamas around.

[FAX]

Ouch.

Damn.

FAX

[NUMBER7]

Freakin Moron...get your facts right first before you attempt to write garbage.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

The four games was an honest mistake, given that almost all NFL substance abuse suspensions are four games.

Aside from that, I don't find a lot of people picking apart the rest of what he said :sulk:

[patteeu]

Their receivers were so bad, some random Arena League guy showed up in Episode 2 and nearly made the team.

LMAO

[StcChief]

Bill Simmons ? Who the F Cares what he thinks.
2 games dude. This info is available at NFL.com

[NUMBER7]

The four games was an honest mistake, given that almost all NFL substance abuse suspensions are four games.

Aside from that, I don't find a lot of people picking apart the rest of what he said :sulk:

True about the clock management crack...Herm sucks...get him a Timex.

[crazycoffey]

The four games was an honest mistake, given that almost all NFL substance abuse suspensions are four games.

Aside from that, I don't find a lot of people picking apart the rest of what he said :sulk:


Alright, he's way off base with the Entourage reference...
And Herm's an excellent actor.

I will hold other comments until I actuall see the Chiefs play this year. IMO - a smart move for anyone attempting to pass judgement on this team.

[Wile_E_Coyote]

"If we can just have a couple of 4-12 seasons. We can draft high and win later." Those who chanted that should be happy with this

[Archie Bunker]

Gonna be a long year.

[Basileus777]

Bill Simmons is good, just not on football. He just doesn't write NFL material well. He needs to stick to the MLB and NBA.

But really, don't take Simmons seriously, he writes for laughs, not for real commentary.

[siberian khatru]

Have we done ANYTHING in recent years (and by recent, I mean basically since 1970) that warrants any reaction other than casual dismissal to outright mockery?

[Scaga]

Dear Mr(s) Simmons...

Crow..it's what's for dinner.

[The Franchise]

I honestly don't care anymore what the media thinks of our team.

These are the same worthless ****s who pick the Cardinals to make the playoffs...and then when they don't....retract their statement.

[Radar Chief]

The four games was an honest mistake, given that almost all NFL substance abuse suspensions are four games.

Aside from that, I don't find a lot of people picking apart the rest of what he said :sulk:

Well, lets take a look at what he really said.
1. Croyle-Huard battle was “uninspiring”.
To a non-Chiefs fan, probably.
2. Herm “faked” a scene.
Five episodes and that’s the only one he thinks was faked? Hell, I thought all the phone conversations “Damn it” Carl and LJ had were faked. Big surprise, HBO faked a scene to add drama.
3. The rooky kicker is shakey.
Another surprise, a rooky is having troubles adjusting to the NFL.
4. A walk on free agent “almost” made the team.
And I’m sure this never happens among the 31 other NFL teams. Shocking, really.
5. LJ got paid.
As he should’ve.
6. The mistake on Jarred Allen’s suspension that everyone has already pointed out.

So really, what did he say that you didn’t already know?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Well, lets take a look at what he really said.
1. Croyle-Huard battle was “uninspiring”.
To a non-Chiefs fan, probably.
2. Herm “faked” a scene.
Five episodes and that’s the only one he thinks was faked? Hell, I thought all the phone conversations “Damn it” Carl and LJ had were faked. Big surprise, HBO faked a scene to add drama.
3. The rooky kicker is shakey.
Another surprise, a rooky is having troubles adjusting to the NFL.
4. A walk on free agent “almost” made the team.
And I’m sure this never happens among the 31 other NFL teams. Shocking, really.
5. LJ got paid.
As he should’ve.
6. The mistake on Jarred Allen’s suspension that everyone has already pointed out.

So really, what did he say that you didn’t already know?

It's not what I didn't know, it's what the homers aren't willing to admit.

[ct]

Well, you can refust to take the guy's opinion for anything, just cause he missed JA's suspension was reduced, but he's pretty much spot on with this.

[L.A. Chieffan]

He's gotta write something it's his freaking job.
What do you want him to say? That we're gonna finish 8-8 again? Is that really want you guys want to hear? Hell no.
Personally I like the fact that we're the underdogs and everybody thinks we're shit.

[wutamess]

I also thought HK's was nothing special.
The Cowboys & Raven's were better IMO.
:shrug:

[Hootie]

Simmons knows shit about the NFL. He proves it every year...

We have a 9 or 10 win team, the Chiefs are really going to surprise all of these assholes who keep putting us in the high 20's/low 30's in these preseason power rankings.

Yeah yeah yeah, I know it won't be good enough for anyone around here.

[Anyong Bluth]

Bill Simmons is good, just not on football. He just doesn't write NFL material well. He needs to stick to the MLB and NBA.


Agreed. The guy knows minimal about NFL and has a 6 year old's knowledge of college basketball.


I didn't think Herm came off as contrived deciding the QB situation. If Simmons was paying close attention he would know the game suspension was reduced to 2 in the 1st episode. Herm spending 2 days in his office going over film and deciding the starter doesn't sound like contrived acting? What it sounds like to me is a casual fan of the NFL that watched Hard Knocks passively b/c it wasn't a team of his interest. He even said it in the 1st few lines. Any "football" fan would watch Hard Knocks intently just for a football fix. Seems to me Bill watched it more out of job necessity.

I not buy this whole doom and gloom bullsh!t. We knew going into the season it was a f*cking Super Bowl year, so if you're a Chiefs fan enjoy the games and watching the new players. Everyone B!tches about how Carl does just enough to keep them decent, but a bunch of people on here are babies and can't suffer through a bad season in order to get better.

[Hootie]

we were a playoff team last year, we got better this year, our QB situation is the same as it was last year (except Huard > Green)...

yet everyone thinks we're in for a 3 win season.

MAKES SENSE

[Radar Chief]

It's not what I didn't know, it's what the homers aren't willing to admit.

What’s there for the “Homers” to admit? He rattled off a few mostly irrelevant points then proclaimed the Chiefs the master of all suckage. :shrug:

[Hootie]

and seriously, Bill Simmons hates the Chiefs. Honestly. I think he's a great writer and I read all of his articles, and he never has anything postive to say about the Chiefs. It stems back to everyone crowning the Chiefs Super Bowl Champions in 2003 and overlooking his beloved Patriots...

[L.A. Chieffan]

He hates the Chiefs because 4 years ago they were getting attention in the media?

[El Jefe]

Allen will miss only two games and Bill Simmons sucks dead donkey dicks!
LMAO

[BigRock]

Aside from that, I don't find a lot of people picking apart the rest of what he said :sulk:
Okay, how about saying he'd want Herm "only if I was gunning for the #1 pick" when Herm has made the playoffs 4 of the 6 years he's been a head coach? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Considering we haven't won a Super Bowl since half past forever, Simmons should embrace the Chiefs. Because his grasp on relevance has been slipping ever since the Red Sox won the World Series and the wagon he hooked his career to came to a stop. Now he's stuck writing about the Celtics in that same RAH RAH BAHSTAN way, as if anybody cares. It's just not the same.

[HolmeZz]

Some of you need to lighten up.

[Basileus777]

Okay, how about saying he'd want Herm "only if I was gunning for the #1 pick" when Herm has made the playoffs 4 of the 6 years he's been a head coach? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Considering we haven't won a Super Bowl since half past forever, Simmons should embrace the Chiefs. Because his grasp on relevance has been slipping ever since the Red Sox won the World Series and the wagon he hooked his career to came to a stop. Now he's stuck writing about the Celtics in that same RAH RAH BAHSTAN way, as if anybody cares. It's just not the same.

Simmons is a Boston homer. Patriots fans love to make fun of Herm because of his time with the Jets. What he said is basically the same thing you will hear about Herm on a Patriots message board.

Some of you need to lighten up.

Definitely. Getting all worked up about an espn page 2 writer is a bit silly.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

What’s there for the “Homers” to admit? He rattled off a few mostly irrelevant points then proclaimed the Chiefs the master of all suckage. :shrug:

I fail to realize how the outstandingly piss poor nature of our quarterbacks constitutes an "irrelevant" point, nor does the fact that we had an Arena League receiver make our team after only attending half of training camp.

And furthermore, Herm did make an ass out of himself on that show. Upon watching that show, I wondered how a locker room full of NFL players could respect that guy for multiple seasons. He's a buffoon.

[siberian khatru]

I loved Hard Knocks, and I'll root for the Chiefs and hope we have a good season (or at least show progress and lay the groundwork for good seasons in the near future).

But I fail to see why anyone who isn't a Chiefs fan should share those sentiments or even give a crap. To most folks, we're a mediocre franchise with a long history of playoff chokes (read: a rep for being pretenders, not contenders) and a goofy head coach.

[Radar Chief]

I fail to realize how the outstandingly piss poor nature of our quarterbacks constitutes an "irrelevant" point, nor does the fact that we had an Arena League receiver make our team after only attending half of training camp.

And furthermore, Herm did make an ass out of himself on that show. Upon watching that show, I wondered how a locker room full of NFL players could respect that guy for multiple seasons. He's a buffoon.

That’s two of the six points I listed, though the walk on free agent didn’t quite “make the team”.
The other four would constitute “mostly”.

[Baby Lee]

nor does the fact that we had an Arena League receiver make our team after only attending half of training camp.
An Arena league receiver who set all sorts of records, and was catching everything thrown at him, and who ultimately made the practice sqaud, not the team, apparently over his speed.
You think that's outrageous, there was a team a few years back who made an arena league QB their effing starter. Forget how that worked out for them.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

That’s two of the six points I listed, though the walk on free agent didn’t quite “make the team”.
The other four would constitute “mostly”.

Let's say you're a Chiefs player, and you watch that final episode.

You see Carl is the one calling all the shots on player decisions, and Herm over in the corner as a yes man. You already know he's not an X's and O's guy.

How the hell do you respect a guy who as the head coach, has that little input into the team? How do you play hard for that guy when the chips are down? He already showed his ass with the Croyle/Huard decision--

CP: Gentleman, we want to win in the regular season
Herm: Yessum, sir.


The LJ/Earl Campbell thing is a salient point to make. LJ himself has made it on several occassions, our kicker is a legitimate head case at this point, and Herm is an idiot when it comes to clock management.

[FAX]

There are some positives here. He left out the part where our new DT tried to raid another man's corn field in search of food.

Thank God for that, at least.

FAX

[Deberg_1990]

Let's say you're a Chiefs player, and you watch that final episode.

You see Carl is the one calling all the shots on player decisions, and Herm over in the corner as a yes man. You already know he's not an X's and O's guy.

How the hell do you respect a guy who as the head coach, has that little input into the team? How do you play hard for that guy when the chips are down? He already showed his ass with the Croyle/Huard decision--

CP: Gentleman, we want to win in the regular season
Herm: Yessum, sir.


The LJ/Earl Campbell thing is a salient point to make. LJ himself has made it on several occassions, our kicker is a legitimate head case at this point, and Herm is an idiot when it comes to clock management.

Yes because Herm is the worst HC of all time!! We might as well hire Frank Ganz Sr. back. :)

['Hamas' Jenkins]

An Arena league receiver who set all sorts of records, and was catching everything thrown at him, and who ultimately made the practice sqaud, not the team, apparently over his speed.
You think that's outrageous, there was a team a few years back who made an arena league QB their effing starter. Forget how that worked out for them.

Conflating Bobby Sippio with Kurt Warner would be like opening up a KC telephone book to a random page and hoping to hit on a future NFL star.

Question:

If it is so assured of success, why did no other team claim Sippio?? Are the other GM's that bad at their jobs??

Kurt Warner is the exception of exceptions to the rule. If I were to take your advice, couldn't I just as easily try and invite a bunch of UDFA NAIA All Americans to my rookie camp with the hope that they'll emerge into multiple MVPs because they happened to put up excellent numbers against horrendous competition?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Yes Warner set Arena League records and had two great NFL seasons:

Where are all the other Arena League Gods??

What happened to Brian Shay??

Where is Boomer Grigsby, the leading tackler in I-AA his senior year?

Where is the reigning NFL Europa MVP??

They are either on the street, or playing backup at a position on the other side of the ball.

[Chief Faithful]

This is f*cking embarrassing.

31. Kansas City Chiefs
Can't NFL Films produce 32 versions of "Hard Knocks," so every team gets properly covered? Consider what we learned about the '07 Chiefs. The Brodie Croyle-Damon Huard QB battle was so uninspiring, Herm Edwards was forced to fake a scene in his office where he "agonized" about which guy to choose. (We haven't seen bad acting like that on HBO since ... oh, wait, we see it every week with Kevin Connelly and Adrian Grenier. My bad.) Their receivers were so bad, some random Arena League guy showed up in Episode 2 and nearly made the team. Their rookie kicker looked Kathy Ireland-level shaky in the preseason, although he's definitely the best left-footed African-American kicker in NFL history. Their best defensive player will miss the first four games following a pair of drunk-driving convictions. They put so much mileage on their franchise running back last season that he held out under the logic, "If you're making me become the next Earl Campbell, could you at least pay me up front with a giant signing bonus?" And if that's not enough, poor Herm became a summer TV laughingstock on par with Corey Haim, the Idaho senator, Parisa The Uptight Real World Roommate and Miss South Carolina.

(Does Herm seem like a fantastic guy? Absolutely. Would I want him coaching my favorite NFL team? Only if I was gunning for the No. 1 overall pick. The good news was that "Hard Knocks" finished on time every week -- it's the first time Herm ever finished a season without screwing up the clock.)

That is a bold prediction for a team that went 9-7 last year and boasts the same or better starters at all positions except one, RG.

[Chiefnj2]

Simmons is right on (except for the 2 vs. 4 games) The biggest and best battle this preseason for KC was who is hotter - Croyle's wife or Gonzo's life partner.

[Brock]

If it is so assured of success, why did no other team claim Sippio?? Are the other GM's that bad at their jobs??


This is what I wonder about all the whining about Printers.

[Dr. Van Halen]

Let's say you're a Chiefs player, and you watch that final episode.

You see Carl is the one calling all the shots on player decisions, and Herm over in the corner as a yes man. You already know he's not an X's and O's guy.

How the hell do you respect a guy who as the head coach, has that little input into the team? How do you play hard for that guy when the chips are down? He already showed his ass with the Croyle/Huard decision--

CP: Gentleman, we want to win in the regular season
Herm: Yessum, sir.


The LJ/Earl Campbell thing is a salient point to make. LJ himself has made it on several occassions, our kicker is a legitimate head case at this point, and Herm is an idiot when it comes to clock management.

So your point isn't that we should be humiliated by the article. It's that we should agree with the article, and think that Edwards is a failure, think that Peterson is a joke, and believe that the team is horrible?

Okay. Whatever. You seem pretty upset about a season that hasn't started yet.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

So your point isn't that we should be humiliated by the article. It's that we should agree with the article, and think that Edwards is a failure, think that Peterson is a joke, and believe that the team is horrible?

Okay. Whatever. You seem pretty upset about a season that hasn't started yet.

D) All of the above :(

[HemiEd]

There are some positives here. He left out the part where our new DT tried to raid another man's corn field in search of food.

Thank God for that, at least.

FAX
ROFL and no mention of his sleeping issues either.

[HemiEd]

Question:

If it is so assured of success, why did no other team claim Sippio?? Are the other GM's that bad at their jobs??



Darn, this post hits on about 10 different points in the CP Lexicon. I can't decide which is most applicable.

1. Pissed Away - Any draft pick traded by KC
2. Wasted/Reach - Any draft pick used by KC to select a player
3. QBOTF - Any QB taken in the first 5 rounds of the draft, by any NFL franchise other than KC.
4. QB Bust - Any QB taken in any round of the draft by KC
5. Draft pick 'value' chart - A ruse by Carl planted in the media to 'justify' the Ryan Sims trade up in 2002.
6. Waste of Cap Dollars - Any FA that KC picks up
7. Cap Friendly Contract - Any contract signed by a FA to an NFL Franchise other than KC
8. Overpaid - Any trade, FA, draft pick signing made by KC
9. Good Cap Mgmt - Any trade, FA, draft pick signing made by any NFL franchise other than KC
10. Blind Homer - Any Chiefs fan that finds any 'good' value in any FA, draft pick, trade that KC makes. Can also include those who celebrate Chiefs victories during a losing season.
11. High on Pot/Heroine/Crack... - See Blind Homer.
12. The System - the reason why high quality players are cut from KC in favor of 'Waste of Cap Dollars' FA's or 'Wastes/Reaches'
13. High Profile College Prospects - Undrafted Free Agents that were not signed by KC
14. College Nobodies - Undrafted Free Agents signed by KC
15. gloom, despair, agony on me - a thread bemoaning the end of the upcoming KC season that's over 3-9 months away or just prior to the seasons start.
16. Dont question my fandom! - the flame war that ensues after a blind homer/High on Crack/Pot/Heroine posts in a 'gloom, despair, agony on me' thread.
17. Agressive-win now approach - When any other NFL franchise other than KC signs a veteran FA.
18. Short-sighted - When KC signs a veteran FA.
19. NFL Caliber Talent - something KC does not have, especially at 'key' positions, that all other NFL Franchises are teeming with.
20. Get Lucky - What caused FA, draft pick, traded player to have a 'good' season. b) Could also be the cause of a playoff win or SB win.
21. Good Season - Something that doesnt happen to the KC franchise.
22. Moron - Any of the numerous members of the Chiefs organization. Examples include: Dick Vermiel and Carl Peterson. b)Can also be used to identify a blind homer in a gloom, despair, agony on me thread
23. Winning the Lottery- What happens if a coach or player currently with KC had played in and won the SB with a another NFL franchise. This term will also be used to describe a KC SB winning season. See also 'Get Lucky'
24. The Profile - A mythical paradigm usually used as an excuse by the Chief's front office as a reason for not signing an impact free agent in their continued attempt to keep the team mediocre and fill the seats of Arrowhead stadium.
25. Prolific Success - KC going .500 with Gunther and or Marty
26. Decent Contract Offer - A contract not offered by Carl to sign a player in time for Training Camp. See Also Overpaid
27. Attempting to get better - Any FA signing by any NFL club other than KC. See also Agressive-win now approach
28. Genious - Any Internet BB poster who claims to know more about NFL talent evaluation, running an NFL franchise or playing in the NFL than those currently employed in the NFL.
29. Looser - The certified spelling of the commonly understood word 'Loser'. Extra 'o' is added for emphasis as to how big a loser receipient of said word really is.
30. Retart - The ChiefsPlanet spelling of the commonly understaood word 'Retard'. Replacing the 'd' with a 't' is added for emphasis as to how stupid recipient of said word really is.
31. Minion/Cannon Fodder - See Blind Homer.
32. Circus Offense - A NFL leading offense in almost every statistical category when run by the Chiefs. See: 2001 - 2005 KC Chiefs

33. Real Offense - A NFL leading offense in almost every statistical category except when run by the Chiefs. See 2002-2006 Indianapolis Colts

[redbrian]

D) All of the above :(

Well I think it's time you found a new team, why stick with such a hoard organization.

Another fair weather fan jumping off the ship before it sails.

[Chiefnj2]

Well I think it's time you found a new team, why stick with such a hoard organization.

Another fair weather fan jumping off the ship before it sails.


How can anyone be a fair weather fan of a team that hasn't won a playoff game since 1993? There hasn't been fair weather in over a decade.

[SBK]

Hamas has turned into the pimple on Dr. Doom's buttcrack.

[Baby Lee]

Conflating Bobby Sippio with Kurt Warner would be like opening up a KC telephone book to a random page and hoping to hit on a future NFL star.

Question:

If it is so assured of success, why did no other team claim Sippio?? Are the other GM's that bad at their jobs??

Kurt Warner is the exception of exceptions to the rule. If I were to take your advice, couldn't I just as easily try and invite a bunch of UDFA NAIA All Americans to my rookie camp with the hope that they'll emerge into multiple MVPs because they happened to put up excellent numbers against horrendous competition?
The point is not that anything is assured. The point is that a stint in the Arena league is not some iron-clad assurance that the player is an embarassment to even be associated with.
I don't have the time to assemble the list of castoffs, undrafted, late round drafted or otherwise unpedigreed players who have come in and made a career in the league. You go by how they perform for you. Geez, do we keep the guy who catches everything thrown his way, or the guy who drops easy passes, WAIT!! Did I mention that guy who catches the ball has been sighted in an Arena league uniform? Case closed.

[redbrian]

How can anyone be a fair weather fan of a team that hasn't won a playoff game since 1993? There hasn't been fair weather in over a decade.

Strange logic, but I'm thinking you were not around during the 80's, those were the years that seperated the men from the wagon jumpers.

[Ugly Duck]

Simmons is right on

I'm with Chiefnj2 and the other ChiefsFanz that say Simmons is right. Raiders at #18, Chiefs at #31... thats just about right considering the opposing directions that our respective teams are heading.

[HemiEd]

The point is not that anything is assured. The point is that a stint in the Arena league is not some iron-clad assurance that the player is an embarassment to even be associated with.
I don't have the time to assemble the list of castoffs, undrafted, late round drafted or otherwise unpedigreed players who have come in and made a career in the league. You go by how they perform for you. Geez, do we keep the guy who catches everything thrown his way, or the guy who drops easy passes, WAIT!! Did I mention that guy who catches the ball has been sighted in an Arena league uniform? Case closed.

The only thing I find disturbing about the Sippio situation, is that he doesn't have Parker's roster spot.

[HemiEd]

I'm with Chiefnj2 and the other ChiefsFanz that say Simmons is right. Raiders at #18, Chiefs at #31... thats just about right considering the opposing directions that our respective teams are heading.
ROFL ROFL Sing it man, because the grim reality of not having any losses in the 2007 season is about to come to an end.

[Radar Chief]

I'm with Chiefnj2 and the other ChiefsFanz that say Simmons is right. Raiders at #18, Chiefs at #31... thats just about right considering the opposing directions that our respective teams are heading.

Yea, whose your owner/GM/Head Coach again? Al Davis

[htismaqe]

How can anyone be a fair weather fan of a team that hasn't won a playoff game since 1993? There hasn't been fair weather in over a decade.

I've been a fan since the early 1980's.

I've ALWAYS given them a chance.

I'm finally fed up with it, and I'm a fair weather fan?

ROFL

['Hamas' Jenkins]

My family has supported this team for two decades of season tickets. We've been through the shittiest years.

I have them this year, and in spite of my gloom and doom, I won't give them up.

No, I'm not saying that I'm a "Real Kansas City Chiefs fan" because of the tickets, but just because I'm not optimistic about this season, doesn't mean that I'm a fairweather fan.

How in the hell could a team that hasn't won a playoff game since 90210 was a hot new show have ANY fairweather fans??

['Hamas' Jenkins]

The point is not that anything is assured. The point is that a stint in the Arena league is not some iron-clad assurance that the player is an embarassment to even be associated with.
I don't have the time to assemble the list of castoffs, undrafted, late round drafted or otherwise unpedigreed players who have come in and made a career in the league. You go by how they perform for you. Geez, do we keep the guy who catches everything thrown his way, or the guy who drops easy passes, WAIT!! Did I mention that guy who catches the ball has been sighted in an Arena league uniform? Case closed.

I'm not denying that there are exceptions, but the fact that you used Kurt Warner as your first and only example was kind of a telling admission.

The point isn't to denigrate Bobby Sippio or his abilities. The point is that this franchise is in such dire straits that a guy who everyone looked over and who passed through waivers after some pretty nice pub made the 53 man roster despite showing up halfway through training camp.

What does that say about the state of our wide receivers??

[Zouk]

The perceptions of Herm are so out of touch with reality.

It needs to be said over and over again - he's gone to the playoffs in 4 out of 6 years in coaching.

Even though he was in the same division as the Patriots when they were winning multiple Super Bowls.

Even when Samie Parker, Jordan Black, and James Reed were starters on his team.

Even though he's had to deal with loads of fluke QB injuries.

He's beaten Peyton Manning 41-0 in the playoffs.

He's won a road playoff game while playing with a QB with a torn rotator cuff.

Face the facts - there are not 10 coaches in football who can match that resume.

[Stryker]

I hate to say it but sans the mistake of a 4 game suspension verses 2, HE IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!

I cannot remember a time going into any season not feeling confident in my team. This season, I honestly do not know what to expect and it sucks. :shake:

[el borracho]

we were a playoff team last year, we got better this year, our QB situation is the same as it was last year (except Huard > Green)...

yet everyone thinks we're in for a 3 win season.

MAKES SENSE
Even if McIntosh is an improvement over Black (remains to be seen) and Turley is an improvement over Welbourn (can he stay healthy?) and Welbourn is an improvement over Shields (remains to be seen) please keep in mind our schedule has changed. As has been pointed out multiple times, Huard did well against the pathetic NFCW last year and not very well against the rest of the NFL. I wouldn't imagine us finishing as poorly as 3-13 but I can imagine us finishing 6-10. We were crap in preseason. We were completely inept on offense- we couldn't score points and we lost the time-of-possession battle. This is not good for a ball-control team.

Believe what you want to believe (everyone does, anyway) but this team is not going anywhere unless we see significant improvement on the Oline and as of this moment we have no real reason to believe that will happen this season.

[HemiEd]

The perceptions of Herm are so out of touch with reality.

It needs to be said over and over again - he's gone to the playoffs in 4 out of 6 years in coaching.

Even though he was in the same division as the Patriots when they were winning multiple Super Bowls.

Even when Samie Parker, Jordan Black, and James Reed were starters on his team.

Even though he's had to deal with loads of fluke QB injuries.

He's beaten Peyton Manning 41-0 in the playoffs.

He's won a road playoff game while playing with a QB with a torn rotator cuff.

Face the facts - there are not 10 coaches in football who can match that resume.

Oh Herm is a genious alright. He is single handedly responsible for rebuilding this defense to respectable.
However, he is to be given no blame for the #1 offense freefall to 16th on the way to 32nd.
He is also did an incredible job getting the previous 10-6 Chiefs to the playoffs his first year with a 9-7 record.

Don't forget, you said it, facts are facts. No explaining them away and no butts. We are so ****ing lucky to have this genious.

[Baby Lee]

I'm not denying that there are exceptions, but the fact that you used Kurt Warner as your first and only example was kind of a telling admission.

The point isn't to denigrate Bobby Sippio or his abilities. The point is that this franchise is in such dire straits that a guy who everyone looked over and who passed through waivers after some pretty nice pub made the 53 man roster despite showing up halfway through training camp.

What does that say about the state of our wide receivers??
Kurt Warner is the perfect example to cite when someone says 'an Arena leaguer almost made the team, that is embarassing.'
And here's where I think our disconnect is, I'm not evaluating Sippio regarding how he reflects on the rest of the receivers. I'm evaluating him on reports and footage of HOW HE PERFORMED.
The NFL is about today. What can you do for me today? How are you performing today. I'd have the same opinion on Sippio if he'd spent the last 3 years bagging groc. . . err . . . opening for Celine Dion.

[Zouk]

Oh Herm is a genious alright. He is single handedly responsible for rebuilding this defense to respectable.
However, he is to be given no blame for the #1 offense freefall to 16th on the way to 32nd.
He is also did an incredible job getting the previous 10-6 Chiefs to the playoffs his first year with a 9-7 record.

Don't forget, you said it, facts are facts. No explaining them away and no butts. We are so ****ing lucky to have this genious.


Whether Herm is a success in KC will depend on where we are after his 3rd year coaching the team. He didn't exactly take over a team loaded with good young talent. I though he did a good job last year given what he had (Huard, Parker, Bell, Black, etc.).

I was merely defending his full 6 year resume. He may yet be a failure with the Chiefs.

[Chief Faithful]

I'm with Chiefnj2 and the other ChiefsFanz that say Simmons is right. Raiders at #18, Chiefs at #31... thats just about right considering the opposing directions that our respective teams are heading.
LMAO

Keep the faith.

[Rausch]

I've been a fan since the early 1980's.

I've ALWAYS given them a chance.

I'm finally fed up with it, and I'm a fair weather fan?

ROFL

Forgive the rest of us if we think this new white-flag-attitude is beneath you...

['Hamas' Jenkins]

The perceptions of Herm are so out of touch with reality.

It needs to be said over and over again - he's gone to the playoffs in 4 out of 6 years in coaching.

Even though he was in the same division as the Patriots when they were winning multiple Super Bowls.

Even when Samie Parker, Jordan Black, and James Reed were starters on his team.

Even though he's had to deal with loads of fluke QB injuries.

He's beaten Peyton Manning 41-0 in the playoffs.

He's won a road playoff game while playing with a QB with a torn rotator cuff.

Face the facts - there are not 10 coaches in football who can match that resume.

Shanahan, Holmgren, Martz, Lovie Smith, Andy Reid, Joe Gibbs, Tom Coughlin, Belichick, Billick, Tony Dungy, Jeff Fischer, John Fox, Jon Gruden all have accomplished more than Herm

Fortunately for you, Parcells and Cowher retired in the offseason, Marty was fired, and you could make a strong case that Denny Green did a hell of a lot more than Herm ever did.

[Zouk]

Shanahan, Holmgren, Martz, Lovie Smith, Andy Reid, Joe Gibbs, Tom Coughlin, Belichick, Billick, Tony Dungy, Jeff Fischer, John Fox, Jon Gruden all have accomplished more than Herm

Fortunately for you, Parcells and Cowher retired in the offseason, Marty was fired, and you could make a strong case that Denny Green did a hell of a lot more than Herm ever did.


I agree with all of the above except John Fox and Tom Coughlin. Fox made the Super Bowl one year in a weak NFC. If he spent the early 2000's in the same division as the Patriots he would not have made a Super Bowl either.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Kurt Warner is the perfect example to cite when someone says 'an Arena leaguer almost made the team, that is embarassing.'
And here's where I think our disconnect is, I'm not evaluating Sippio regarding how he reflects on the rest of the receivers. I'm evaluating him on reports and footage of HOW HE PERFORMED.
The NFL is about today. What can you do for me today? How are you performing today. I'd have the same opinion on Sippio if he'd spent the last 3 years bagging groc. . . err . . . opening for Celine Dion.

What has Sippio shown that he can do? He's caught passes in practice. That's great. So did Richard Smith. Remember when everyone was on his dick? He still hasn't played against NFL-level competition, and he still doesn't know the offense.

Maybe he'll learn, I hope he does, but let's not forget how bad our wide receivers were, and how, in spite of that, he couldn't hold on to a roster spot, and that is a reflection on his talent.

There are a lot of guys who can catch the football. It doesn't mean that they can get open against NFL competition, that they run good routes, or that they can learn an NFL playbook.

You could have the hands of Jerry Rice dipped in 8 quarts of super glue and it won't matter if you are wearing a DB like a cheap vest.

The speed thing is just one of many aspects.

[KCTitus]

It's like clockwork...after the preseason is done and just before the first game the mood of 'panic' is at its height. I see no reason not to anticipate the worst from this club. With its OL having issues and the 1 page offensive playbook, it's difficult to see where the points are coming from.

I discount the sports pundits...they have as some of their members some of the biggest idiots on the face of the earth -- King, 'Z' and Pastabelly -- to name a few, but that blurb wrote itself.

We, along with the pundits, have heard this tune before...the 'pull the horns in' play not to lose strategy was a KC staple for a decade and they've returned to their roots after their flirtations with a Circus Offense that managed to get STL their SB win 99.

[L.A. Chieffan]

What has Sippio shown that he can do? He's caught passes in practice. That's great. So did Richard Smith. Remember when everyone was on his dick? He still hasn't played against NFL-level competition, and he still doesn't know the offense.

Maybe he'll learn, I hope he does, but let's not forget how bad our wide receivers were, and how, in spite of that, he couldn't hold on to a roster spot, and that is a reflection on his talent.

There are a lot of guys who can catch the football. It doesn't mean that they can get open against NFL competition, that they run good routes, or that they can learn an NFL playbook.

You could have the hands of Jerry Rice dipped in 8 quarts of super glue and it won't matter if you are wearing a DB like a cheap vest.

The speed thing is just one of many aspects.
But...D. Bowe said they we're gonna do touchdown dances. Get out your cameras.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I agree with all of the above except John Fox and Tom Coughlin. Fox made the Super Bowl one year in a weak NFC. If he spent the early 2000's in the same division as the Patriots he would not have made a Super Bowl either.

Tom Coughlin won a playoff game on the road against the #1 seeded Broncos with a 2nd year expansion team.

He also beat the Dolphins 62-7 in the playoffs.

He's coached in two AFC championship games.


John Fox has made the playoffs with Carolina more than once, and took those same Patriots to the limit when they had arguably their strongest of their 3 Super Bowl teams.

Has coached in a Super Bowl, let alone an AFC Ch. game?? I think not.

Has he beaten anyone in the playoffs not from the uber-conservative Marty tree?? Nope.

[Baby Lee]

What has Sippio shown that he can do? He's caught passes in practice. That's great. So did Richard Smith. Remember when everyone was on his dick? He still hasn't played against NFL-level competition, and he still doesn't know the offense.

Maybe he'll learn, I hope he does, but let's not forget how bad our wide receivers were, and how, in spite of that, he couldn't hold on to a roster spot, and that is a reflection on his talent.

There are a lot of guys who can catch the football. It doesn't mean that they can get open against NFL competition, that they run good routes, or that they can learn an NFL playbook.

You could have the hands of Jerry Rice dipped in 8 quarts of super glue and it won't matter if you are wearing a DB like a cheap vest.

The speed thing is just one of many aspects.
Now I'm confused, is it embarassing he didn't make the team, or that he almost did?

[88TG88]

Simmons knows shit about the NFL. He proves it every year...


:clap:

[tk13]

Anybody who would rather have Tom Coughlin than Herm needs to have their brain pressed against a bench grinder for about 12 hours. This crap is getting hard to read... there seem to be a lot of well respected people on here losing their minds.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Now I'm confused, is it embarassing he didn't make the team, or that he almost did?

It's embarrassing that we were in the situation that some dude off the street with no knowledge of our playbook and could actually be in contention for a roster spot.

What does that say about the quality of the players that we already had here?? Why might one be pessimistic about the season's outlook because of this?

We *think* that Sippio can catch. He's done so in practice, and against St. Louis' 5th stringers. That's great. We've been fooled before. Richard Smith, Chris Horn, etc.

We know he's not fast.

Does he run good routes? No one has said. Can he grasp an NFL playbook? Hopefully? Can he get open? All we've seen is him run 5 yard outs against a sideline on Hard Knocks. Did 31 other teams have a chance to pick him up not once, but twice after all of his good pub and pass? Yup.

1) We don't have good players
2) Sippio isn't and won't be that good (I hope I'm wrong, but I fear I'm not).

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Anybody who would rather have Tom Coughlin than Herm needs to have their brain pressed against a bench grinder for about 12 hours. This crap is getting hard to read... there seem to be a lot of well respected people on here losing their minds.

Rather have Tom Coughlin does not = Coughlin's Resume> Herm's Resume. It's undoubtedly true.

At this point, I'd rather have Herm than Jimmy Johnson, but that doesn't mean that JJ has accomplished less than Herm.

Two totally different parameters.

[noa]

Tom Coughlin sucks and he's going to prove it again this year.

[Baby Lee]

It's embarrassing that we were in the situation that some dude off the street with no knowledge of our playbook and could actually be in contention for a roster spot.

What does that say about the quality of the players that we already had here?? Why might one be pessimistic about the season's outlook because of this?

We *think* that Sippio can catch. He's done so in practice, and against St. Louis' 5th stringers. That's great. We've been fooled before. Richard Smith, Chris Horn, etc.

We know he's not fast.

Does he run good routes? No one has said. Can he grasp an NFL playbook? Hopefully? Can he get open? All we've seen is him run 5 yard outs against a sideline on Hard Knocks. Did 31 other teams have a chance to pick him up not once, but twice after all of his good pub and pass? Yup.

1) We don't have good players
2) Sippio isn't and won't be that good (I hope I'm wrong, but I fear I'm not).
Nothing, without more information.
We KNOW that;
He was in ALF
He came in off the street
He was close to making the cut
He didn't
No one else picked him up

That tells us nothing about;
How good he is at picking up the playbook
How well he runs routes
The extent of his reported speed deficit

And it definitely tells us nothing about how good the rest of the squad is, except that, in the eyes of the organization, they each have more positives than Sippio.

[Zouk]

Rather have Tom Coughlin does not = Coughlin's Resume> Herm's Resume. It's undoubtedly true.

At this point, I'd rather have Herm than Jimmy Johnson, but that doesn't mean that JJ has accomplished less than Herm.

Two totally different parameters.


I think you make fair points on Coughlin and Fox - you may be right. I still might take Herm's resume because of the context of the injuries and the division.

So we have him somewhere between 10-15.

But let's also remember Belichick didn't become Belichick until his 5th year or so, and that Cowher won his Super Bowl in his 10th plus year (and plenty of silly Steelers fans wanted him fired beofre that).

And I still think the point holds that becuase of his manner of speaking and his preferred style of play, the perception does not match the resume at all.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

This is f*cking embarrassing.

31. Kansas City Chiefs
Can't NFL Films produce 32 versions of "Hard Knocks," so every team gets properly covered? Consider what we learned about the '07 Chiefs. The Brodie Croyle-Damon Huard QB battle was so uninspiring, Herm Edwards was forced to fake a scene in his office where he "agonized" about which guy to choose. (We haven't seen bad acting like that on HBO since ... oh, wait, we see it every week with Kevin Connelly and Adrian Grenier. My bad.) Their receivers were so bad, some random Arena League guy showed up in Episode 2 and nearly made the team. Their rookie kicker looked Kathy Ireland-level shaky in the preseason, although he's definitely the best left-footed African-American kicker in NFL history. Their best defensive player will miss the first four games following a pair of drunk-driving convictions. They put so much mileage on their franchise running back last season that he held out under the logic, "If you're making me become the next Earl Campbell, could you at least pay me up front with a giant signing bonus?" And if that's not enough, poor Herm became a summer TV laughingstock on par with Corey Haim, the Idaho senator, Parisa The Uptight Real World Roommate and Miss South Carolina.

(Does Herm seem like a fantastic guy? Absolutely. Would I want him coaching my favorite NFL team? Only if I was gunning for the No. 1 overall pick. The good news was that "Hard Knocks" finished on time every week -- it's the first time Herm ever finished a season without screwing up the clock.)

Awesome. It's so true.

[tk13]

Rather have Tom Coughlin does not = Coughlin's Resume> Herm's Resume. It's undoubtedly true.

At this point, I'd rather have Herm than Jimmy Johnson, but that doesn't mean that JJ has accomplished less than Herm.

Two totally different parameters.
Depends on what you consider in the resume. As Bill Simmons himself jokes in that article... Coughlin's gonna go after the record for "most times a coach convinced the same team to quit on him." If your resume is solely playoff wins, and playoff wins alone, then maybe. Even then, Coughlin hasn't won a playoff game in 7 years. His teams routinely quit on him. He makes up silly rules that make his players hate him and take the focus away from football. He probably had the best team in the AFC for a 2 or 3 year period in the late 90's and did nothing with it.

I think Herm's resume isn't that far behind honestly. Coughlin beat the crap out of Miami in 99. Herm beat the crap out of Colts in the playoffs, 41-0, shutting out Peyton Manning, not a washed up Dan Marino. Herm won a playoff game on the road in San Diego, and should've won in Pittsburgh, where nobody but the Patriots succeeds in the playoffs. We shut down Manning again last year too... the only person that's had more success in the playoffs against Manning than Herm is Belichick, and this is the greatest QB of our time. I think it's marginal at best.

[FringeNC]

Anybody who would rather have Tom Coughlin than Herm needs to have their brain pressed against a bench grinder for about 12 hours. This crap is getting hard to read... there seem to be a lot of well respected people on here losing their minds.


Tom Coughlin is a total asshole, I agree. There is a huge downside risk that the season may be a debacle because the team quits on him. In my mind, there is no doubt the upside is higher with Coughlin, though. He is not of the "play-not-to-lose" mindset. The team might not quit on him.

On the other hand, there is nothing to look forward with Herm other than one-and-done in the playoffs. His shit just DOES NOT WORK in the playoffs. End of story. I'll take Coughlin any day over Herm.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Depends on what you consider in the resume. As Bill Simmons himself jokes in that article... Coughlin's gonna go after the record for "most times a coach convinced the same team to quit on him." If your resume is solely playoff wins, and playoff wins alone, then maybe. Even then, Coughlin hasn't won a playoff game in 7 years. His teams routinely quit on him. He makes up silly rules that make his players hate him and take the focus away from football. He probably had the best team in the AFC for a 2 or 3 year period in the late 90's and did nothing with it.

I think Herm's resume isn't that far behind honestly. Coughlin beat the crap out of Miami in 99. Herm beat the crap out of Colts in the playoffs, 41-0, shutting out Peyton Manning, not a washed up Dan Marino. Herm won a playoff game on the road in San Diego, and should've won in Pittsburgh, where nobody but the Patriots succeeds in the playoffs. We shut down Manning again last year too... the only person that's had more success in the playoffs against Manning than Herm is Belichick, and this is the greatest QB of our time. I think it's marginal at best.


This goes to Zouk. The aforementioned list had only to do with accomplishments. If I had to choose game day coaches, I'd extend it farther.

If I had to choose coaches I'd rather have Herm than, the list would probably be: Lane Kiffin, Norv Turner, Jack Del Rio, Romeo Crennell, Wade Phillips, McCarthy in Green Bay (???), with unknowns for Petrino. Whisenhunt, and Tomlin.

I really can't think of many worse coaches than Herm, and if you are going from a gameday perspective, that list might shrink to a handful.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Nothing, without more information.
We KNOW that;
He was in ALF
He came in off the street
He was close to making the cut
He didn't
No one else picked him up

That tells us nothing about;
How good he is at picking up the playbook
How well he runs routes
The extent of his reported speed deficit

And it definitely tells us nothing about how good the rest of the squad is, except that, in the eyes of the organization, they each have more positives than Sippio.

Ummm...we know that we have a 600 year old #1 WR. A first round pick who hasn't shown much of anything in either camp or the preseason. A #2 whose nickname is Stonehands, and a 2nd year 6th round pick who has shown he can be a mediocre kick returner.

Can you honestly name 3 WR corps in the NFL that are worse??

And, we know from the waiver wire that 31 other teams felt that all of their wide receivers had more positives than Sippio

[Zouk]

This goes to Zouk. The aforementioned list had only to do with accomplishments. If I had to choose game day coaches, I'd extend it farther.

If I had to choose coaches I'd rather have Herm than, the list would probably be: Lane Kiffin, Norv Turner, Jack Del Rio, Romeo Crennell, Wade Phillips, McCarthy in Green Bay (???), with unknowns for Petrino. Whisenhunt, and Tomlin.

I really can't think of many worse coaches than Herm, and if you are going from a gameday perspective, that list might shrink to a handful.


Here I strongly disagree with you. Herm has not had great rosters with great QBs, but he still manages to win. Gameday coaching goes into that. The conservative style may not excite you, but it works - particularly if you don't have a great QB.

[Chiefnj2]

Here I strongly disagree with you. Herm has not had great rosters with great QBs, but he still manages to win. Gameday coaching goes into that. The conservative style may not excite you, but it works - particularly if you don't have a great QB.

Herm hasn't been handed bad rosters in either of his two coaching stints.

[|Zach|]

My family has supported this team for two decades of season tickets. We've been through the shittiest years.

I have them this year, and in spite of my gloom and doom, I won't give them up.

No, I'm not saying that I'm a "Real Kansas City Chiefs fan" because of the tickets, but just because I'm not optimistic about this season, doesn't mean that I'm a fairweather fan.

How in the hell could a team that hasn't won a playoff game since 90210 was a hot new show have ANY fairweather fans??
I don't think you are a fair weather fan.

I do think you enjoy being unhappy. Love it. Hell, one of your team's won a world championship and you were whining and bitching and crying the whole way.

You love being unhappy, you don't know anything else.

To each their own I suppose.

[Ugly Duck]

Yea, whose your owner/GM/Head Coach again? Al Davis

Oh hey c'mon now you guyz.... Big Al is a gamblin' kinda guy. He'll take a flyer on some youngster as HC - guyz like Madden & Flores & Shanahan & Gruden. Hit pay dirt with Madden & Flores, went bust with Ratface & Gruden. Big Al wins big & he loses big. He's gamblin' on Kid Kiffin now & we only have one direction we can go - up.

Now KC... not the gamblin' type, eh? Steady as she goes, don't lose big but don't win big. A durn near steady power team thats a bitch for anybody to beat at Arrowhead. Its a safe road that the Chiefs have traveled. Reliable, moderate success. You might not crash & burn on the safe road, but you can sure have a major recall... and thats what folks are smelling right now...

[KcMizzou]

The only thing "Big Al"'s gambling on is whether or not his adult diaper can withstand a three hour game.

[tk13]

Tom Coughlin is a total asshole, I agree. There is a huge downside risk that the season may be a debacle because the team quits on him. In my mind, there is no doubt the upside is higher with Coughlin, though. He is not of the "play-not-to-lose" mindset. The team might not quit on him.

On the other hand, there is nothing to look forward with Herm other than one-and-done in the playoffs. His shit just DOES NOT WORK in the playoffs. End of story. I'll take Coughlin any day over Herm.
I think you guys are slowly losing your minds. There are tons of names on these lists I wouldn't even put in Herm's neighborhood. Coughlin hasn't done crap for years, he doesn't "play to win", he hasn't won a playoff game since 1999, what's he playing to win? Even in 1999 he was eventually taken to school by Jeff Fisher for a 3rd time that season, great coaching adjustments those were! Despite having the best record in the AFC.... nothing.

Wade Phillips? The same guy that played prevent defense and let Joe Montana work the sidelines up the field for one of the greatest MNF comebacks in history? The same guy who's special teams were so prepared they allowed maybe the greatest special teams miracle finish in NFL history? The Norv Turner who had 8 billion years in Washington and never accomplished anything? Why don't we throw in Bobby Ross, Bill Callahan, and Mike Tice while we're at it.

I don't think Herm is the greatest tactician of all time or anything like that, but he's had a winning record and made the playoffs every single year except a couple years his team was beat up by injury, and he even overcame that last year. He's not nearly as bad as everyone is shooting him down to be.

[Baby Lee]

Love how big Al gambles on cutting draft picks he wanted to keep. :thumb:

[beer bacon]

Bill Simmons also thinks dreaminess is the most important quality for a successful QB.

[Baby Lee]

Nothing, without more information.
We KNOW that;
He was in ALF
He came in off the street
He was close to making the cut
He didn't
No one else picked him up

That tells us nothing about;
How good he is at picking up the playbook
How well he runs routes
The extent of his reported speed deficit

And it definitely tells us nothing about how good the rest of the squad is, except that, in the eyes of the organization, they each have more positives than Sippio.
Ummm...we know that we have a 600 year old #1 WR. A first round pick who hasn't shown much of anything in either camp or the preseason. A #2 whose nickname is Stonehands, and a 2nd year 6th round pick who has shown he can be a mediocre kick returner.

Can you honestly name 3 WR corps in the NFL that are worse??

And, we know from the waiver wire that 31 other teams felt that all of their wide receivers had more positives than Sippio
No, you're right. I should have bolded it, too.


On the issue of the suckiness of the WR corps. That issue will rise or fall on their play in the regular season. Point still stands that the Sippio-meter, and his plusses and minuses, and his pedigree, had no bearing on the merits of that issue.

[Easy 6]

I'd pay more attention to what Gene Simmons had to say about the Chiefs.

[Zouk]

Herm hasn't been handed bad rosters in either of his two coaching stints.


Please explain the following:

1) Samie Parker
2) Jordan Black
3) The revolving door at right tackle
4) Eric Hicks
5) John Browning
6) Ryan Sims
7) Junior Siavii
8) Kendrell Bell
9) Kawika Mitchell
10) Eric Warfield
11) Dexter McCleon
12) Dewayne Washington
13) William Bartee
14) An aging Sammy Knight
15) Jerome Woods

This is what Herm inherited here. Only 2 really good young players (LJ and Allen). And 1 young guy who might develop to be really good (DJ).

[Chiefnj2]

I don't think Herm is the greatest tactician of all time or anything like that, but he's had a winning record and made the playoffs every single year except a couple years his team was beat up by injury, and he even overcame that last year. He's not nearly as bad as everyone is shooting him down to be.

Herm was fortunate to take over 2 teams that were in pretty good shape.

[beer bacon]

Herm was fortunate to take over 2 teams that were in pretty good shape.

The Chiefs were in horrible shape when he showed up. Poor talent on defense, and they were overall one of the oldest teams in the league.

[Chiefnj2]

Please explain the following:
.

He inherited one of the top offenses in the league. Yes, they were getting old, but he still had one hell of a foundation of skill players with Green (one of the top passers for the 4 years prior to Herm), LJ, TG, and a solid OL with Waters, Weigman, Shields.

On defense he had less - Allen, DJ and Surtain. However, Gun was improving the D before Herm showed up. They were the #16 team in points against. Not great, but no longer the 32 defense. They gave up 30+ points in 3 games (the same # Herm's team gave up last year). I'm pretty sure defensive passing yards per attempt and rushing yards per attempt were virtually identical for Herm's first year and DV's last as well. I think both teams held opposing teams to 18 or less points in 7 games.

He took over a team that had 10 wins. It's not like they were 3-13.

[tk13]

Herm was fortunate to take over 2 teams that were in pretty good shape.
Yes, Herm's record and success is solely because the previous coaches did a good job. I hear even during his two playoff wins, Bill Parcells had his hand up Herm's colon guiding him like a puppet to victory.

Is he supposed to be punished for that? I don't understand... it's not like either team he took over was perfect... he turned over the roster in NY from an aging team with an old QB, a solid RB, an older defense, etc. He drafted Vilma, he drafted Santana Moss, he drafted Kerry Rhodes and Erik Coleman, he drafted Justin Miller. The young players he did have like Pennington, Abraham, Ellis all developed under him.

If he does the same thing here, and we develop a QB, stay with our solid RB, Bowe develops into a decent WR, Hali and Allen turn into stud DE's, Page and Pollard turn into stud safeties, we're gonna be a really good football team.

[|Zach|]

Herm was fortunate to take over 2 teams that were in pretty good shape.
That defense was in great shape.

[Mecca]

Simmons knows shit about the NFL. He proves it every year...

We have a 9 or 10 win team, the Chiefs are really going to surprise all of these assholes who keep putting us in the high 20's/low 30's in these preseason power rankings.

Yeah yeah yeah, I know it won't be good enough for anyone around here.

So what drugs were you hitting today? 10 wins my ass, I'd bet every single thing I own on the under for that.

Seriously you'd either have to be really stoned, stupid or just about as delusional as a person could possible be to believe the Chiefs will win 9 or 10 games.

[Chiefnj2]

Yes, Herm's record and success is solely because the previous coaches did a good job. I hear even during his two playoff wins, Bill Parcells had his hand up Herm's colon guiding him like a puppet to victory.

Is he supposed to be punished for that? I don't understand... it's not like either team he took over was perfect... he turned over the roster in NY from an aging team with an old QB, a solid RB, an older defense, etc. He drafted Vilma, he drafted Santana Moss, he drafted Kerry Rhodes and Erik Coleman, he drafted Justin Miller. The young players he did have like Pennington, Abraham, Ellis all developed under him.

If he does the same thing here, and we develop a QB, stay with our solid RB, Bowe develops into a decent WR, Hali and Allen turn into stud DE's, Page and Pollard turn into stud safeties, we're gonna be a really good football team.

He shouldn't be punished for his success. But his success has to be measured in part by what he inherited. Parcells inherited a horrible Jets team and turned it around. Herm kept a decent team playing well. He's a C+ coach. He'll typically get you 7-10 wins, but not over the hump. He bailed in NY when he thought it was going to get tough.

We'll see what he does this year. Personally, my enthusiasm and expectations for the Chiefs is, and will be, at an all time low until Herm and Carl leave KC.

[Chief Faithful]

He's gamblin' on Kid Kiffin now & we only have one direction we can go - up.



He is gamblin on Kiffin because no established coach will go to Oakland.

[Zouk]

He shouldn't be punished for his success. But his success has to be measured in part by what he inherited. Parcells inherited a horrible Jets team and turned it around. Herm kept a decent team playing well. He's a C+ coach. He'll typically get you 7-10 wins, but not over the hump. He bailed in NY when he thought it was going to get tough.

We'll see what he does this year. Personally, my enthusiasm and expectations for the Chiefs is, and will be, at an all time low until Herm and Carl leave KC.


The team Herm inherited from Al Groh was average. But he changed all the players anyway.

Check the following links:

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/rosters.nsf/Annual/2000-nyj

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/rosters.nsf/Annual/2004-nyj

I counted 9 names on both lists.

[tk13]

He shouldn't be punished for his success. But his success has to be measured in part by what he inherited. Parcells inherited a horrible Jets team and turned it around. Herm kept a decent team playing well. He's a C+ coach. He'll typically get you 7-10 wins, but not over the hump. He bailed in NY when he thought it was going to get tough.

We'll see what he does this year. Personally, my enthusiasm and expectations for the Chiefs is, and will be, at an all time low until Herm and Carl leave KC.
I don't understand. I mean I'd agree, he's never started with a 3 win team and rebuilt it. But who cares? He didn't take over a 3 win team here. What's that have to do with the Chiefs? Are the only good coaches the ones who can do that?

I mean, being put in that situation, I think Herm would do okay, he's good at evaluating talent in the draft, and he'd have lots of high draft picks.

[Hootie]

So what drugs were you hitting today? 10 wins my ass, I'd bet every single thing I own on the under for that.

Seriously you'd either have to be really stoned, stupid or just about as delusional as a person could possible be to believe the Chiefs will win 9 or 10 games.
Whatever.

We're a better team this year than we were last year.

How can you judge what kind of team we are going to be by that preseason? No LJ and Huard/Tony G/Kennison hardly played.

I'm concerned about the defense. If we have the type of D I think we do, we can easily win 10 games. I expect great things from our defense...

If our defense is average, we're not going to be very good. Our success hinges on the D, not the O.

[Mecca]

That D isn't that great, that is the major overhyped part. That is not a top 10 defense.....it's not a defense that is going to carry a team to wins.

[Hootie]

That D isn't that great, that is the major overhyped part. That is not a top 10 defense.....it's not a defense that is going to carry a team to wins.
and this is your opinion...

Quite frankly, I think our defense is going to be one of the biggest surprise stories in the NFL.

Am I allowed to have my own opinion?

And if the Chiefs do end up with the 6 or 7th best defense, we could easily wind up with 9, 10 even 11 wins.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I think you guys are slowly losing your minds. There are tons of names on these lists I wouldn't even put in Herm's neighborhood. Coughlin hasn't done crap for years, he doesn't "play to win", he hasn't won a playoff game since 1999, what's he playing to win? Even in 1999 he was eventually taken to school by Jeff Fisher for a 3rd time that season, great coaching adjustments those were! Despite having the best record in the AFC.... nothing.

Wade Phillips? The same guy that played prevent defense and let Joe Montana work the sidelines up the field for one of the greatest MNF comebacks in history? The same guy who's special teams were so prepared they allowed maybe the greatest special teams miracle finish in NFL history? The Norv Turner who had 8 billion years in Washington and never accomplished anything? Why don't we throw in Bobby Ross, Bill Callahan, and Mike Tice while we're at it.

I don't think Herm is the greatest tactician of all time or anything like that, but he's had a winning record and made the playoffs every single year except a couple years his team was beat up by injury, and he even overcame that last year. He's not nearly as bad as everyone is shooting him down to be.


Hate to break this to you TK, but Phillips and Turner were both coaches who I said I *didn't* prefer to Herm.

Trying to figure out your point there....

['Hamas' Jenkins]

and this is your opinion...

Quite frankly, I think our defense is going to be one of the biggest surprise stories in the NFL.

Am I allowed to have my own opinion?

And if the Chiefs do end up with the 6 or 7th best defense, we could easily wind up with 9, 10 even 11 wins.


I don't understand why all you guys are on Herm's dick so hard for making the playoffs last year.

He pulled off a superfecta to get in, and we got thoroughly embarrassed and destroyed as soon as we got there.

He got us 9 wins in the most Pyrrhic fashion possible--by grinding the bones of our best player into the dirt, scooping them up, and grinding some more.

Herm lacks the imagination and creativity to be a successful NFL coach. He has no spine. It's clear that he's nothing other than CP's yes man, a man whose only concern is the bottom line.

With a duo like that, you can't win.

[Hootie]

Everyone is in for a big surprise this year.

[Mecca]

Everyone is in for a big surprise this year.

What when the Chiefs screw up a top 5 pick?

[Ugly Duck]

He is gamblin on Kiffin because no established coach will go to Oakland.

Naw... he does pretty good scouting out young HC talent:

Madden, 1 Lombardi, Raiders
Flores, 2 Lombardis, Raiders
Shanahan, 2 Lombardis, Donks
Gruden, 1 Lombardi, Bucs

[Hootie]

What when the Chiefs screw up a top 5 pick?
I guarantee we won't be drafting in the top 10...

[StcChief]

Hate to break this to you TK, but Phillips and Turner were both coaches who I said I *didn't* prefer to Herm.

Trying to figure out your point there....
It's pretty simple. Throwing Herm under the bus is stupid at this point.
His coaching speaks for itself. Despite what NY/NJ media says.

[Mecca]

I guarantee we won't be drafting in the top 10...

I can't wait to see your melt down when the record is like 2-7.

[TEX]

Their rookie kicker looked Kathy Ireland-level shaky in the preseason, although he's definitely the best left-footed African-American kicker in NFL history.

ROFL

[TEX]

and this is your opinion...

Quite frankly, I think our defense is going to be one of the biggest surprise stories in the NFL.

Am I allowed to have my own opinion?

And if the Chiefs do end up with the 6 or 7th best defense, we could easily wind up with 9, 10 even 11 wins.


No way that happens because the defense is gonna be on the field a loooooooong time.

[TEX]

I can't wait to see your melt down when the record is like 2-7.

And the schedule is such that it is very possible.

[Mecca]

And the schedule is such that it is very possible.

Houston and Minnesota are the most winable and I won't be shocked if they lose both of those.

[cdcox]

What's funny is that anyone would read Simmons expecting to get an insider sports opinion.

He is a humorist who happens to (sometimes) write about sports. I read him for the laughs, not to get some kind of inside knowledge about the game, let alone a team that I follow closely.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Their rookie kicker looked Kathy Ireland-level shaky in the preseason, although he's definitely the best left-footed African-American kicker in NFL history.

ROFL



I think he read a post I made on another thread a couple of weeks ago.

[BigMeatballDave]

Damn. Carl must've ****ed his wife...

[chiefsfan1963]

looking forward to the end of the CP and the Herm era ending soon.

[TEX]

Houston and Minnesota are the most winable and I won't be shocked if they lose both of those.

I have the Chiefs losing to Houston this weekend...

[Mecca]

I think they're gonna lose too...

[TEX]

I think they're gonna lose too...

I'll be there - 40 yard line behind the Chiefs bench to witness it. I'm sure I'll be within shouting distance of Herm. I'll probably get kicked out of Reliant. :cuss:

[Brock]

No way that happens because the defense is gonna be on the field a loooooooong time.

Yeah. Ha ha. It's like the Chiefs offense has no weapons at all, isn't it?

I love it, it's the same thing every year, the same fools paying attention to preseason games.

[Reerun_KC]

Yeah. Ha ha. It's like the Chiefs offense has no weapons at all, isn't it?

I love it, it's the same thing every year, the same fools paying attention to preseason games.


Well maybe when KC can prove it in the post season... 9-7 really doesnt mean much year in and year out...

[Ugly Duck]

I love it, it's the same thing every year, the same fools paying attention to preseason games.

Every year: "Broncos finally have all the pieces in place to go all the way."

Year after year after year its the same ol' line.

[TEX]

Yeah. Ha ha. It's like the Chiefs offense has no weapons at all, isn't it?

I love it, it's the same thing every year, the same fools paying attention to preseason games.

We have 2 legit weapons on offense. Only a fool would think otherwise. BTW, what did you learn from preseason last year? How about the year before? What happened when it was for real? I'd say it's rather foolish to discount obvious weaknesses as simply being "preseason." I wonder how Medlock's gonna do this year? Oh - wait - it's only preseason. Nevermind. :rolleyes:

[Baby Lee]

A HATE MY FAVORITE TEAM MORE THAN ANYBODY!!!!!

[Reerun_KC]

A HATE MY FAVORITE TEAM MORE THAN ANYBODY!!!!!


ROFL

No you dont!

[KCChiefsMan]

whatever, Entourage rocks!

[Baby Lee]

ROFL

No you dont!
If I can survive the 'my daughter, who blows dudes for crack money' years under DV, I guess I can hang on a little longer.

[KcMizzou]

A HATE MY FAVORITE TEAM MORE THAN ANYBODY!!!!!Heh, no shit.

:shake:

[Brock]

We have 2 legit weapons on offense. Only a fool would think otherwise.


Yeah, right. Jesus H. Christ, you're stupid.

[Reerun_KC]

Yeah, right. Jesus H. Christ, you're stupid.


Good Lord, People are forgetting we have DownField Big Game Manager Huard behind center...



Championship!!!!!!!!!

[Reerun_KC]

If I can survive the 'my daughter, who blows dudes for crack money' years under DV, I guess I can hang on a little longer.


ROFL

[LOCOChief]

the games three days away and everyone is scaaaaared.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Simmons officially picks the Chiefs to finish 3-13...ouch.

[L.A. Chieffan]

Simmons officially picks the Chiefs to finish 3-13...ouch.
**** ****ING COCKSUCKING SIMMONS BURN IN ****ING HELL!11!111!!1!!!!

['Hamas' Jenkins]

So I listen to Simmons' podcast today where they predict NFL lines.

They get to Chicago/KC...Simmons stops and goes, "oh my god......oh my god....Chicago by....16??"

ROFL

Chicago/KC could be the Spinks/Tyson fight...that could be a 50-0 game.....


wow.

[Mecca]

LOL, I wonder if everyone still thinks he doesn't know what he's talking about.