Chiefs' Ruining QBOTFs the most illustrious example..

[Logical]

I know many of you younger fans feel that our latest venture in ruining another potential QBOTF in the Brodie Croyle fiasco is the most shameful, but let me assure it is not.

A story far worse is the story of a Penn State All American, All Academic QB who led his Nittany Lions to the national championship. Who was the MVP on that day after he threw the most beautiful 40 yard strike that led to a TD you could ever hope for in the National Championship game. He led the Nittany Lions to a three year record of 31-5 with three bowl victories. This story gets worse, this talented young man was picked 7th overall in that draft.

Yes the Chiefs have had an amazing ability to flameout their drafted QBs. Todd is just one of many Livingston, Fuller, Barnes, Stenstrom, Elkins, McManus, Jaynes, Carlson, Woods, and Blundin also joined the parade.

So when the Chiefs finally delegate Brodie to the scrapheap, remember that he is not alone, no he his one of a long lineage of wasted QB draft picks. Heck take solace that they cannot even all be blamed on Carl Peterson.

[Smed1065]

Blah, blah, blah again.

[blueballs]

you clean septic tanks for a living
don't you

[milkman]

What about that Beathard kid, and that Huarte(?) kid in the 60's?

Clearly Hank Stram couldn't develop QBs either.

[Logical]

you clean septic tanks for a living
don't you

No, but based on your posts I am pretty sure yours is backed up.

[milkman]

No, but based on your posts I am pretty sure yours is backed up.

Based on his name, that's not the only thing.

[blueballs]

No, but based on your posts I am pretty sure yours is backed up.

nice comeback
but keep your hose out of my septic

[Logical]

What about that Beathard kid, and that Huarte(?) kid in the 60's?

Clearly Hank Stram couldn't develop QBs either.Damn you milkman, I racked my brain to remember all that I could and you come up with two more classic examples. As I recall Huarte was an all american at Notre Dame. I remember Beathard but not much about him.

[Predarat]

Don't forget Ted White.

[Buck]

**** you, Ryan Leaf was worse than all those QBs combined.

Quit yer bitching

[blueballs]

Ted White won the lottery
or another such scmuck

[Logical]

**** you, Ryan Leaf was worse than all those QBs combined.

Quit yer bitching

You are of course correct.:D

[milkman]

Damn you milkman, I racked my brain to remember all that I could and you come up with two more classic examples. As I recall Huarte was an all american at Notre Dame. I remember Beathard but not much about him.

I don't really remember all that much about them, except that were pretty highly regarded prospects coming out of college.

Neither ever amounted to anything.

Isn't there the possibility that some of thes QBs just weren't as good as they were touted, and that developing them was not the issue?

[Logical]

I don't really remember all that much about them, except that were pretty highly regarded prospects coming out of college.

Neither ever amounted to anything.

Isn't there the possibility that some of thes QBs just weren't as good as they were touted, and that developing them was not the issue?

Of course but let's face facts 40+ years without developing one quarterback says something basic about the organization. If they were all talentless hacks the organization has never had any scouting ability. If they actually had some talent we fail as an organization in the ability or patience to develop them. Either way the organization is a basic failure in this regard.

[Smed1065]

No, they all would have been SB QB's drafted by any other team!

[Logical]

No, they all would have been SB QB's drafted by any other team!

Not suggesting any such thing.

[Dartgod]

Isn't there the possibility that some of thes QBs just weren't as good as they were touted, and that developing them was not the issue?
Not in Jim's world.

No ****ing way.

[Direckshun]

Not suggesting any such thing.
You've suggested that the Chiefs have both "ruined" and "flamed out" QBOTFs.

So, yes, you are suggesting that exact thing.

[milkman]

Of course but let's face facts 40+ years without developing one quarterback says something basic about the organization. If they were all talentless hacks the organization has never had any scouting ability. If they actually had some talent we fail as an organization in the ability or patience to develop them. Either way the organization is a basic failure in this regard.

The reality is that there have been only two or three bonafide prospects drafted by the Chiefs over all those years, and in the case of Beathard and Huarte, they were drafted when Dawson was in his prime.

Most of those guys had questions about their ability when they were drafted.

The ones drafted in the last 19 years are very probably the victim a lack of commitment to developing a young QB.

The ones drafted in the 70's and 80's were probably the result of poor evaluation.

The organization has failed, but I think the reasons have changed from the Steadman to the Carl era.

[Logical]

You've suggested that the Chiefs have both "ruined" and "flamed out" QBOTFs.

So, yes, you are suggesting that exact thing.Other people are presenting legitimate points of contention. You are letting your dislike of my posting style influence you. No where did I come close to suggesting they would all be Super Bowl QBs if drafted by other teams.

Serious question does QBOTF suggest Super Bowl QB in your world, not in mine?

[Logical]

The reality is that there have been only two or three bonafide prospects drafted by the Chiefs over all those years, and in the case of Beathard and Huarte, they were drafted when Dawson was in his prime.

Most of those guys had questions about their ability when they were drafted.

The ones drafted in the last 19 years are very probably the victim a lack of commitment to developing a young QB.

The ones drafted in the 70's and 80's were probably the result of poor evaluation.

The organization has failed, but I think the reasons have changed from the Steadman to the Carl era.

I think the basic reason, lack of commitment to any other principle that filling the seats after we won a Super Bowl remains the constant. Lamar and Clark can be blamed for that.

[Hammock Parties]

I think the basic reason, lack of commitment to any other principle that filling the seats after we won a Super Bowl remains the constant. Lamar and Clark can be blamed for that.

You know what's kinda scary? We did an interview with Clark...he talked about what he wanted his legacy to be in 15 years...I didn't hear the word "Super Bowl."

In fact...jeez...he didn't say "Super Bowl" or "championship" in the entire interview once.

[milkman]

I think the basic reason, lack of commitment to any other principle that filling the seats after we won a Super Bowl remains the constant. Lamar and Clark can be blamed for that.

That may well be true, and I agree that blame can be laid at Lamar's feet, though I am willing, at this point in time to give Clark the benefit of the doubt.

That being said, when the seats weren't being filled in the 80's, there was not one single valid reason not to attempt to develop a QB.

I think that simply goes back to poor evaluation.

[Skip Towne]

Jackie Lee?

[Logical]

You know what's kinda scary? We did an interview with Clark...he talked about what he wanted his legacy to be in 15 years...I didn't hear the word "Super Bowl."

In fact...jeez...he didn't say "Super Bowl" or "championship" in the entire interview once.

You are suprised? I bet you he talked a lot about the stadium improvements and fulfilling his fathers dream (that stadium expansion of luxury boxes, revenue generating concession stands and the upper tier revenue generating Lounge and bars.

[Skip Towne]

Fuller is a SB QB. He has a ring.

[Logical]

Jackie Lee?Not sure if he was drafted by the Chiefs or by Houston, but definitely a young QB they did not develop. But like milkman correctly stated that was during the Len Dawson era.

[milkman]

Fuller is a SB QB. He has a ring.

So does Livingston.

[Logical]

Fuller is a SB QB. He has a ring.

LOL as a safety, hell of a safety though.

[Logical]

So does Livingston.I also wondered about whether the Chiefs drafted Livingston. Unfortunately that site that allowed you to look up all the Chiefs draft picks over the years is no longer active.

[the Talking Can]

Carl will never allow us to groom a QB.

That would be risky and painful. He will never allow that, the record is clear on that.

[milkman]

I also wondered about whether the Chiefs drafted Livingston. Unfortunately that site that allowed you to look up all the Chiefs draft picks over the years is no longer active.

I can't say with certainty, but I believe that they did.

But he was only a game manager, and when he became the starter, the team had already started it's decline, and game managers can't win without talent surrounding them.

[Logical]

So does Livingston.I also wondered about whether the Chiefs drafted Livingston. Unfortunately that site that allowed you to look up all the Chiefs draft picks over the years is no longer active.

[milkman]

I also wondered about whether the Chiefs drafted Livingston. Unfortunately that site that allowed you to look up all the Chiefs draft picks over the years is no longer active.

repost

[Eleazar]

Just stop replying to this drivel. please.

[RJ]

So then this thread begs the question.......which franchises are good at drafting and developing quarterbacks? Its not an easy thing to do, after all.

Patriots - Drafted Bledsoe and Brady, not too shabby

Bengals - Kenny Anderson, Boomer Esiason, Carson Palmer. They've had some good QB's aside from the shameful years.

Chargers - Fouts, Brees and Rivers isn't bad but that Ryan Leaf thing brings down the grade.


I don't know. The Chiefs record with QB's is abysmal but looking around the league I see they're not alone. Any team stand out to you as the best in this regard?

[Buehler445]

So then this thread begs the question.......which franchises are good at drafting and developing quarterbacks? Its not an easy thing to do, after all.

Patriots - Drafted Bledsoe and Brady, not too shabby

Bengals - Kenny Anderson, Boomer Esiason, Carson Palmer. They've had some good QB's aside from the shameful years.

Chargers - Fouts, Brees and Rivers isn't bad but that Ryan Leaf thing brings down the grade.


I don't know. The Chiefs record with QB's is abysmal but looking around the league I see they're not alone. Any team stand out to you as the best in this regard?

What did the Colts do before Manning. Did they draft Unitas?

What about the Jets?

[milkman]

What did the Colts do before Manning. Did they draft Unitas?

What about the Jets?

Unitas was playing Semi Pro ball and was signed as a street free agent.

The Jets have drafted Namath, Richard Todd, and Pennington.

Cowboys have done pretty good over the years with Don Meredith, Roger Staubaugh, Danny White and Aikman.

edit:The Colts have also drafted John Elway, who of course refused to play for them, and manipulated the trade to Denver,

They also drafted Bert Jones, who was a pretty damn good QB for a few years.

[orange]

The Colts did okay with Bert Jones.

{Edit} Loitered too long before posting.

[el borracho]

What did the Colts do before Manning. Did they draft Unitas?
Didn't the Colts draft some turd named Elway.

[milkman]

The Colts did okay with Bert Jones.

{Edit} Loitered too long before posting.

Didn't the Colts draft some turd named Elway.

You guys are slow.

[RJ]

See what I mean? Its tough to come up with teams that have done well with drafting and developing multiple QB's. Where the Chiefs have failed isn't in not developing all those players mentioned in the thread starter. Most if not all of them would have ended up the same way regardless of the franchise they were drafted by. But it is fair to point out that we've not accomplished this at least once after all these years.

[Buehler445]

Thanks for the info milkman.

[milkman]

See what I mean? Its tough to come up with teams that have done well with drafting and developing multiple QB's. Where the Chiefs have failed isn't in not developing all those players mentioned in the thread starter. Most if not all of them would have ended up the same way regardless of the franchise they were drafted by. But it is fair to point out that we've not accomplished this at least once after all these years.

I think that is the point.

In 47 years, this organization has never drafted and developed it's own QB,

Not one.

[RealSNR]

How about Tampa Bay? They have Shaun King and Trent Dilfer. That's... about it.

[Logical]

How about Tampa Bay? They have Shaun King and Trent Dilfer. That's... about it.

Hmmm, another good example but they have not been around but about half as long as the Chiefs.

[RealSNR]

Seattle? Again, another expansion team that came after the Chiefs, I guess.

How about the Ravens/old Browns? Who have they drafted in their extensive history?

[RJ]

I think that is the point.

In 47 years, this organization has never drafted and developed it's own QB,

Not one.



I agree, but the list in the thread starter implies (as I'm reading it) that those guys might have been studs but the Chiefs failed them. If that were the case then surely at least one Kurt Warner would have emerged from the group.

In my mind the failure is probably more in the drafting than the developing. There are very few QB's who become consistent Pro Bowl type players. The Chiefs failure has been an inability to recognize and draft even one.

[RJ]

Seattle? Again, another expansion team that came after the Chiefs, I guess.

How about the Ravens/old Browns? Who have they drafted in their extensive history?


Brian Sipe and Bernie Kosar weren't bad. I think they were both drafted by the Browns.

[Logical]

Brian Sipe and Bernie Kosar weren't bad. I think they were both drafted by the Browns.For one Bernie Kosar

[milkman]

Seattle? Again, another expansion team that came after the Chiefs, I guess.

How about the Ravens/old Browns? Who have they drafted in their extensive history?

They've had some fair QB's, but not great. I don't know if they were drafted bt the team.

If you measure greatness by Championships, then it could be argued that Otto Graham is among the all time greats, having won 10 consecutive championships (combined) in the AAFC and NFL.

3 of those, I think, were NFL Championships.

Might have been 4.

[SBK]

The stupid part of this question is that there's only a handful of guys in the history of the league that were drafted and turned into stud QB's for the same team.

There can't be more that a couple dozen stud QB's in history of the league. There's far more busts and flameouts than Dan Marino's & the like.

So big whoop, the Chiefs haven't hit a homerun yet. They're not alone, and they will develop one someday....

[milkman]

The stupid part of this question is that there's only a handful of guys in the history of the league that were drafted and turned into stud QB's for the same team.

There can't be more that a couple dozen stud QB's in history of the league. There's far more busts and flameouts than Dan Marino's & the like.

So big whoop, the Chiefs haven't hit a homerun yet. They're not alone, and they will develop one someday....

I think you'd have to look at each team that were in existence when the Dallas Texans came to be.

[RealSNR]

They've had some fair QB's, but not great. I don't know if they were drafted bt the team.

If you measure greatness by Championships, then it could be argued that Otto Graham is among the all time greats, having won 10 consecutive championships (combined) in the AAFC and NFL.

3 of those, I think, were NFL Championships.

Might have been 4.Ah. See, I'm only 27. I wasn't around back then when all those old farts were playing, so they slip my mind often :evil:

[milkman]

Ah. See, I'm only 27. I wasn't around back then when all those old farts were playing, so they slip my mind often :evil:

So, you're saying that senility is starting to affect you entirely too soon?

[SBK]

I think you'd have to look at each team that were in existence when the Dallas Texans came to be.

Does that change how many stud QB's have been around in the history of the league? :p

[Logical]

I think you'd have to look at each team that were in existence when the Dallas Texans came to be.

Interesting idea

Oakland - check Lamonica and Stabler for sure.
San Diego - check Fouts, Brees, Rivers
Jets - check Namath, Pennington
Houston/Tennesse - check McNair, Vince Young
New England - check Bledsoe and Brady
Miami - check Bob Griese and Marino
Denver - check Brian Griese and Cutler (not steller but starters at least)
Buffalo -Jack Kemp and Jim Kelly and JP Losman

Yup only the Chiefs have never developed a QB out of the old AFL teams.

[shrek6849]

Batman and Superman have NOTHING on Dr. Doom.

[Logical]

Batman and Superman have NOTHING on Dr. Doom.

That is right, I seek out evil no matter how it hides itself. And just like Batman I have my demons (Chiefs history) that haunt my daily existence.

[ChiefsCountry]

How about Tampa Bay? They have Shaun King and Trent Dilfer. That's... about it.

Tampa Bay drafted Doug Williams and Steve Young.

[Logical]

Tampa Bay drafted Doug Williams and Steve Young.

In fairness Doug Williams was developed by the Redskin and Steve Young by the 49ers.

[DaneMcCloud]

In fairness Doug Williams was developed by the Redskin and Steve Young by the 49ers.

Sorry, Jim.

BULL F*CKING SH*T.

Sorry to rain on your Chiefs pity party, but how could Doug Williams POSSIBLY be developed by the Redskins when:

He was drafted in 1978 by Tampa Bay.
He led the Bucs to the NFC Championship in 1980
He left for the USFL in 1984.
He joined the 'Skins in 1985 and didn't play until late in the 1986 season.
Once he finally took to the field in 1987 (after sitting beind Jay Shroeder? for 30 games), he led the team through the playoffs and the to the Super Bowl.

He was ousted as QB, shortly thereafter and the Skins won again in 1992.

Williams had played Pro Football for 10 YEARS before winning a Super Bowl.

So please explain to me: How and WHEN did Washington DEVELOP Doug Williams?

[Valiant]

I think it would be more interesting to go back and look at all franchises drafting elite players in the big three positions that became elite with their drafting team..

Qb, Wr, RB... If you add it all up with teams that have been around for 20+ years it might get scary.. Defensively we have been great though..

[KC Jones]

**** you, Ryan Leaf was worse than all those QBs combined.

Quit yer bitching

Yeah, but you guys hit one out of the ball park with Drew Brees...


oh wait, nevermind ROFL

[Chiefnj2]

Interesting idea

Oakland - check Lamonica and Stabler for sure.
San Diego - check Fouts, Brees, Rivers
Jets - check Namath, Pennington
Houston/Tennesse - check McNair, Vince Young
New England - check Bledsoe and Brady
Miami - check Bob Griese and Marino
Denver - check Brian Griese and Cutler (not steller but starters at least)
Buffalo -Jack Kemp and Jim Kelly and JP Losman

Yup only the Chiefs have never developed a QB out of the old AFL teams.

Young, Losman and Cutler have not yet, and may never, develop into good QB's.