Cutting Medlock

[siberian khatru]

Too soon or the right time?

Just want to try to quantify the opinion on the board.

Poll to follow.

[Hammock Parties]

Knee jerk reaction and a clear sign we're not interested in building a young team.

[NUMBER7]

I just hope we can get him back for the PS. He is a project....a 5th round pick...stupid Carl.

[smittysbar]

I believe that they didn't cut him, they signed Dave Rayner, but just to be the guy for this year, 610 was reporting that they hope Medlock can improve to the guy we go with next year and years to come.

[teedubya]

Nah, we should have drafted Mason Crosby, like I said in March.

[Simplex3]

Nah, we should have drafted Mason Crosby, like I said in March.
Bingo.

[Simplex3]

There was no chance of taking Crosby, however. We all know players from UCLA are the best.

[Mecca]

Now we need to carry 2 kickers, instead of just letting the young guy kick and develop...

[Brock]

Knee jerk reaction and a clear sign we're not interested in building a young team.

Bullshit. Crosby made 3/3 including a game winner and a 53 yarder. You can either do it or you can't, and that guy sucked balls.

[splatbass]

Knee jerk reaction and a clear sign we're not interested in building a young team.

Dave Rayner is 24. Is that old?

[thehead]

Thought it was too soon , oh well next , If Parker drops passes this week do they cut him ?( parker had a good game by the way)

[JBucc]

I thought it was too soon. Oh welll I'm willing to give Rayner a shot. He was 8-11 from 40-49 yards last year. Not bad.

[CHENZ A!]

Bullshit. Crosby made 3/3 including a game winner and a 53 yarder. You can either do it or you can't, and that guy sucked balls.

exactly

[DaKCMan AP]

Way too soon. If we did indeed cut Medlock, I'm disgusted by the decision.

[FAX]

I voted "too soon".

Mainly because Herm's going to need to cut a kicker pretty much every week to A) Make a statement to the team, B) Convince the media and fans he's actually solving problems, and C) We're going to run out of FA 70% kickers before week 4.

FAX

[BigMeatballDave]

I wonder how stupid Herm and Carl feel for not inviting any other PKs to camp?

[Uncle_Ted]

The stupid move was to just hand him the job on draft day. We should have had a FA kicker in for competition. If the FA beat him out then we could just cut Medlock and if we still wanted to keep him, put him on the practice squad -- extremely doubtful another team would snap up a rookie kicker and put him on their active roster when he didn't kick well enough to win the job in camp.

[penchief]

Wow.

Without reading any of these posts, I have to confess that I'm actually torn. I think it was the right thing to do for the team (that miss was a momentum killer) but I also think the kid could turn out to be pretty good (he has a unique style that seems smooth in it's technique. So if he ever got the rest of it resolved he just might end up being automatic).

But in the end I'd have to say it was probably the right thing to do because I have to believe that reason it happened was because he lost the confidence of his teammates.

[htismaqe]

You can either do it or you can't, and that guy sucked balls.

Here's the real bullshit, right here.

Adam Vinatieri started his career 2 of 5. Clearly, he couldn't do it.

[Brock]

You'd think Chiefs fans would have learned something about the perils of neurotic kickers over the years.

[DaKCMan AP]

Here's the real bullshit, right here.

Adam Vinatieri started his career 2 of 5. Clearly, he couldn't do it.

LMAO bingo

[Mr. Laz]

could you imagine what the reaction would be if people around here said a draft pick "was a bust" after just 1 game?

[htismaqe]

You'd think Chiefs fans would have learned something about the perils of neurotic kickers over the years.

You'd think Chiefs fans would have learned something about the perils of getting rid of players before they've had a chance to prove themselves...

[Logical]

You'd think Chiefs fans would have learned something about the perils of getting rid of players before they've had a chance to prove themselves...

I am wondering if anyone can example of someone we let go that went on to an outstanding career. There is that guard who we tried to slip onto the practice squad but that is the only one I can think of.

[DaKCMan AP]

I am wondering if anyone can example of someone we let go that went on to an outstanding career. There is that guard who we tried to slip onto the practice squad but that is the only one I can think of.

Joe Horn

[kcxiv]

Its to damn soon. He's still a rook. Just let him suffer through the bumbs just like our supposedly veteran offense. Just play him. We wont be winning anything anyways.

[Brock]

Joe Horn

Ha ha, why didn't you say Neil Smith or Rich Gannon, they're about as relevant.

[DenverChief]

Joe Horn


bingo

[Coach]

Way the hell too soon. Why cut a kicker who went 1/2? I mean, there are some kickers that went 1/2.

Not to mention that this was his first NFL game. I mean, Christ Almighty, should we cut Bowe for his 3 drops?

[htismaqe]

Ha ha, why didn't you say Neil Smith or Rich Gannon, they're about as relevant.

Joe Horn is EVERY BIT as relevant as Lin Elliot. Which is the only example you can think of for your side of the argument...

[Archie Bunker]

Way too soon. His mechanics can be fixed and in a season with little or no hope the Chiefs should have giving him more time.

Then again Rayner is young and has a big leg so maybe he will work out and this will all be for the best.

[Hammock Parties]

Joe Horn AND Chris Hannon.

[runnercyclist]

A kicker should never be drafted.

Kickers - $0.10/dozen

[htismaqe]

Way too soon. His mechanics can be fixed and in a season with little or no hope the Chiefs should have giving him more time.

Then again Rayner is young and has a big leg so maybe he will work out and this will all be for the best.

They cut Medlock after 4 preseason games and 1 regular season game.

Rayner kicked for an entire season and was a PATHETIC 26 of 36.

We downgraded, AGAIN.

[siberian khatru]

Here's the real bullshit, right here.

Adam Vinatieri started his career 2 of 5. Clearly, he couldn't do it.

But he was 10 for 10 in the preseason!

[DaKCMan AP]

But he was 10 for 10 in the preseason!

So it's more important to do well in the preseason?

[siberian khatru]

I must say I'm surprised by the poll results so far (37-18). Based on the comments earlier today on the Medlock threads, I'd have assumed the exact opposite.

FTR, I voted "too soon."

[siberian khatru]

So it's more important to do well in the preseason?

No, I was making a joke. :)

A lot of Medlock critics pointed to his poor preseason as a big reason to give up on him (the ONE regular season game was icing on the cake). So I was placing lots of emphasis on Vinatieri's preseason (which I have no idea how he did).

[DaKCMan AP]

No, I was making a joke. :)

A lot of Medlock critics pointed to his poor preseason as a big reason to give up on him (the ONE regular season game was icing on the cake). So I was placing lots of emphasis on Vinatieri's preseason (which I have no idea how he did).

I was wondering where you even found those numbers. ;)

[the Talking Can]

just more proof that this organization is constantly in a state of panic, making short term decisions to appear "proactive," and to reassure our knuckle dragging fan base that they are trying to "win now" - while always and only moving further away from anything that would resemble a coherent plan to build a truly competitive team for the long term...

risk averse idiots....cowards...buffoons...losers....proven losers

[Coach]

just more proof that this organization is constantly in a state of panic, making short term decisions to appear "proactive," and to reassure our knuckle dragging fan base that they are trying to "win now" - while always and only moving further away from anything that would resemble a coherent plan to build a truly competitive team for the long term...

risk averse idiots....cowards...buffoons...losers....proven losers

This organization really reminds me of the Chicago Cubs organization. They have done alot of inept decision making, such as hiring Dusty Baker, hiring shitty baseball players with a OPS of less than 60, etc. etc.

Kansas City Chiefs is the Chicago Cubs in the NFL.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/SwedeCarlson/Chiefs/Cubschiefsavatar.jpg

[the Talking Can]

This organization really reminds me of the Chicago Cubs organization. They have done alot of inept decision making, such as hiring Dusty Baker, hiring shitty baseball players with a OPS of less than 60, etc. etc.

Kansas City Chiefs is the Chicago Cubs in the NFL.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/SwedeCarlson/Chiefs/Cubschiefsavatar.jpg

yeah

[Archie Bunker]

They cut Medlock after 4 preseason games and 1 regular season game.

Rayner kicked for an entire season and was a PATHETIC 26 of 36.

We downgraded, AGAIN.

Thats why I feel its too soon. Medlock didn't get close to enough time and letting him kick meaningless FGs on the practice squad doesn't do any good since he needs to experience game conditions.

I'm just saying that Rayner is only 1 yr older than Medlock, he has made some big kicks and he still has a chance to get better.

[unlurking]

Thats why I feel its too soon. Medlock didn't get close to enough time and letting him kick meaningless FGs on the practice squad doesn't do any good since he needs to experience game conditions.

I'm just saying that Rayner is only 1 yr older than Medlock, he has made some big kicks and he still has a chance to get better.
He can't even manage to kick meaningless FGs in training camp / pre-season? I think the practice squad is the perfect place for him. Isn't that where we develop our project players?

I don't know anything about Rayner, good or bad, but if this were a stop gap measure to let Rayner Medlock develop I would have tried someone a little more experienced.

[DomerNKC]

nice way to fix the problem of scoring points. Now we can lose 20-6 every game. Way to profess your incompetence of picking a kicker in the 5th round that should not have been picked at all. FIRE HERM NOW!!!!

[plbrdude]

Dave Rayner is 24. Is that old?

dyslexians unite!!!! i thought he was 42 :shake:

[Brock]

nice way to fix the problem of scoring points. Now we can lose 20-6 every game. Way to profess your incompetence of picking a kicker in the 5th round that should not have been picked at all. FIRE HERM NOW!!!!

What, it's too early to decide he sucks. ROFL

[ChiTown]

dyslexians untie!!! i thought he was 42 :shake:

fyp

[digger]

Who is in change at arrowhead? Yes too soon, The trade LT, instead of having to make the rookie earn the job. And now after 1 game the rookie is out? Or we have two kickers on the team? And can not bring Sippo up from the PS now that we need another WR. It's going from bad to worse.

[plbrdude]

fyp
yt

[ChiTown]

yt


:LOL:

[Frazod]

Christ, how long were we supposed to coddle this prick? Sure, it was four preseason games and another than we lose whether he kicks well or not.

But this is a rookie who certainly figured out at least by the third preseason game that he was KICKING FOR HIS JOB. Sure, winning the big game with a last minute FG is important, but in the grand scheme of things, is it more important to a player than keeping his job? With his own future on the line, this turd choked ON HIMSELF. Seriously, what could be a better indicator of Medlock's complete unsuitability for this job? Much better to pull the plug now than after he went Elliot on us when it mattered.

I really can't believe people are so bunged up over shitcanning a kicker who can't kick. Don't we have enough f#cking deadweight on this team?

:shake:

[htismaqe]

Christ, how long were we supposed to coddle this prick? Sure, it was four preseason games and another than we lose whether he kicks well or not.

But this is a rookie who certainly figured out at least by the third preseason game that he was KICKING FOR HIS JOB. Sure, winning the big game with a last minute FG is important, but in the grand scheme of things, is it more important to a player than keeping his job? With his own future on the line, this turd choked ON HIMSELF. Seriously, what could be a better indicator of Medlock's complete unsuitability for this job? Much better to pull the plug now than after he went Elliot on us when it mattered.

I really can't believe people are so bunged up over shitcanning a kicker who can't kick. Don't we have enough f#cking deadweight on this team?

:shake:

How long should New England have coddled Adam Vinatieri? He started his career 2 of 5.

I really can't believe people are so pumped over dumping a rookie, who still has a chance to be a very productive player in this league, just because it might pay IMMEDIATE dividends to the tune of losing by 14 instead of 20...

[OnTheWarpath15]

I guess Herm and Carl figured they couldn't cut Drummond, Wilson, Pollard, Huard or Bowe, so Medlock was the obvious choice.....

:rolleyes:

[htismaqe]

I guess Herm and Carl figured they couldn't cut Drummond, Wilson, Pollard, Huard or Bowe, so Medlock was the obvious choice.....

:rolleyes:

They cut players much the same way they play football...

SAFE.

[Mecca]

They provide all the fans a scapegoat and sad thing is most of them will buy it.

"we got rid of that shitty kicker we're better now"

[Frazod]

How long should New England have coddled Adam Vinatieri? He started his career 2 of 5.

I really can't believe people are so pumped over dumping a rookie, who still has a chance to be a very productive player in this league, just because it might pay IMMEDIATE dividends to the tune of losing by 14 instead of 20...
I don't give a shit about the game. And he's not Vinatieri. He's a kicker who couldn't kick to save his job.

HE SUCKS. HE'S GONE.
THE END.
Perhaps you should take up a f#cking collection for him or something.

[BigMeatballDave]

Christ, how long were we supposed to coddle this prick? Sure, it was four preseason games and another than we lose whether he kicks well or not.

But this is a rookie who certainly figured out at least by the third preseason game that he was KICKING FOR HIS JOB. Sure, winning the big game with a last minute FG is important, but in the grand scheme of things, is it more important to a player than keeping his job? With his own future on the line, this turd choked ON HIMSELF. Seriously, what could be a better indicator of Medlock's complete unsuitability for this job? Much better to pull the plug now than after he went Elliot on us when it mattered.

I really can't believe people are so bunged up over shitcanning a kicker who can't kick. Don't we have enough f#cking deadweight on this team?

:shake:Agreed. This place would've imploded had he missed a game-winner.

[Frazod]

Agreed. This place would've imploded had he missed a game-winner.

This is just one less thing to bitch about, which is, perhaps, the problem.

[DaKCMan AP]

I don't give a shit about the game. And he's not Vinatieri. He's a kicker who couldn't kick to save his job.

HE SUCKS. HE'S GONE.
THE END.
Perhaps you should take up a f#cking collection for him or something.

You can tell all that after the preseason and 1 game? It's a wonder you haven't won the lottery yet.

[Mecca]

By your logic Adam Vinatieri should have been cut his rookie year because he was a prick that didn't need to be coddled and couldn't make a kick.

Hey let's cut Bernard Pollard too he got burned for a TD, let's cut Kris Wilson he doesn't do anything and fumbled a ball that led to a TD.

[DaKCMan AP]

By your logic Adam Vinatieri should have been cut his rookie year because he was a prick that didn't need to be coddled and couldn't make a kick.

Amazing, isn't it?

[Mecca]

Amazing, isn't it?

This is why we basically can't play a young QB. To many in this market will say he sucks ass and want to cut him after 1 game.

[penchief]

Agreed. This place would've imploded had he missed a game-winner.

I like the kid but, IMO, it was a game-winner that he missed. He had alot to prove and he failed to prove it from chip-shot range. That missed kick could have meant the difference between momentum in our favor instead of momentum in their favor.

I think Medlock will probably make it as a reliable kicker in the NFL somewhere sometime. But, IMO, the organization had to put its money where it mouth was.

Did they do the right thing? I don't know. In the short run, probably. In the long run, who knows?

[DaKCMan AP]

This is why we basically can't play a young QB. To many in this market will say he sucks ass and want to cut him after 1 game.

Yet they complain that we haven't rebuilt the team or developed our own players.. it's a lose/lose.

[Frazod]

Apparently some of you haven't been a fan of this team very goddamn long.

Personally, I'm sick of getting burned by choke artist kickers.

When this guy actually becomes Adam f#cking Vinateiri, come see me with your crow shovels. But my money's on stockboy at Kurt Warner's old grocery store.

[DomerNKC]

What, it's too early to decide he sucks. ROFLhe is a bad kicker. He is also the fall guy for a horrible offense. Our kicker is the least of our problems.

[Mecca]

Apparently some of you haven't been a fan of this team very goddamn long.

Personally, I'm sick of getting burned by choke artist kickers.

When this guy actually becomes Adam f#cking Vinateiri, come see me with your crow shovels. But my money's on stockboy at Kurt Warner's old grocery store.

That's good then just say you support veteran laden teams and don't want to go young. Going with young guys means you have growing pains simple as that. If you want everyone to be proven then hey you want a team like Vermiel built that was all about older proven players.

[BigRock]

How long should New England have coddled Adam Vinatieri? He started his career 2 of 5.

I really can't believe people are so pumped over dumping a rookie, who still has a chance to be a very productive player in this league, just because it might pay IMMEDIATE dividends to the tune of losing by 14 instead of 20...
He does have a chance to be good, and that's part of why I don't think it's a bad move. I seriously can't imagine some team is going to open a spot on their roster for a struggling left footed rookie kicker, so tomorrow he goes on the PS. He's clearly having problems somewhere, either in his head or with his mechcanics. Let him work them out.

The whole notion of a coach saying "Well, hell, I know it's only 1 game into the season, but we're not winning anything this year anyway, so let's keep the kid on the field and see if he gets any better" is so silly that it doesn't deserve a response, but a disturbing amount of people keep saying it like it should actually happen. Not only is that a reality that only exists on fan message boards, how does that actually help Medlock?

Like frazod was saying, there's been pressure on the kid for weeks. Hell, the team brought in 6 kickers a week ago. He hasn't responded. Is making it worse by keeping him out there going to help him? When his teammates cuss and slam their helmets after this sorry offense has to fight and claw and struggle to actually move down the field, and he blows it like he did on the first drive yesterday, will that help the problem? Is getting booed off the field at home after every miss going to improve things? Or getting grilled about it after every game by the media?

He can work out the kinks on the PS with no pressure and hopefully get back to where he was. I think it could end up being better for him than leaving him out there to struggle.

[HemiEd]

Joe Horn
Ethan Hortan, Harvey Williams.......oh wait.

[Mecca]

Alright that's great then I think we should cut half the team, let's start with the entire offensive unit.

[DomerNKC]

Much better to pull the plug now than after he went Elliot on us when it mattered.


:shake:i thought we ALL agreed never to mention this name again.

[penchief]

Apparently some of you haven't been a fan of this team very goddamn long.

Personally, I'm sick of getting burned by choke artist kickers.

When this guy actually becomes Adam f#cking Vinateiri, come see me with your crow shovels. But my money's on stockboy at Kurt Warner's old grocery store.

I hope you aren't referring to me. I've been a fan of this team ever since I was ten and watched Jan Stenerud miss those field goals against Miami on Xmas day. In fact, that was the day that I became a chiefs fan.

Even though I don't agree with your assessment about those who don't agree with you on this topic, I'm beginning to wonder if I'm not a glutton for punishment because being a chiefs fan is definitely an invitation to placekicker hell.

I can't condemn the move but I still like the kid as a future kicker in the league.

[KCChiefsMan]

I noticed that John Carney is available, wouldn't he be a better replacement than the guy that I never heard of?

[Frazod]

That's good then just say you support veteran laden teams and don't want to go young. Going with young guys means you have growing pains simple as that. If you want everyone to be proven then hey you want a team like Vermiel built that was all about older proven players.

What a crock of shit.

I've said this before - HE'S A KICKER. This isn't like other positions. The ball doesn't get stronger, or faster, or hit harder than in high school or college. It's just a ball. Same ball, same goalposts. The only thing that changed, apparently, was his ability to deal with his own self-imposed pressure at the professional level. If he's folding like a cheap tent now, what will he do when it really matters? I'd just as soon not find out.

Do I know for sure that I'm right? No. But all of you who seem convinced that he's the second coming of Vinateiri just because he missed half his field goals are, IMO, directly out of your f#cking minds. I think you're all just so focused in on Herm/Carl bashing that you'll bash anything they do. God knows I want Herm/Carl whacked as well - but I just happen to believe they made the right call here.

[Frazod]

i thought we ALL agreed never to mention this name again.

Apparently some of these people need to be reminded.

[Mecca]

All rookie kickers will struggle, it's just how it goes. Vinatieri is brought up because he's an example of it, if you want to develop a young kicker it takes more than 1 game to know what he is.

I'm pretty sure the Chiefs record this year and how bad they are has little to do with developing a kicker but hey I guess they needed a scapegoat to try to appease some, appears to be working.

[HemiEd]

So does anyone really think Medlock was going to be a good kicker? Why?
I have said all along, all he needs is counciling from Dick Vermeil, he would be squared away.

[Mecca]

I think some people have been fans of this team for to long, you are buying right into how the Chiefs do things like it's the right way.

[DaKCMan AP]

Matt Stover was 0 for 1 in his first NFL start in 1991. I guess the Browns (now Ravens) should have given up on him. The idiots there stuck with him and they've suffered through him becoming a 93% kicker last season.

[Mecca]

Matt Stover was 0 for 1 in his first NFL start in 1991. I guess the Browns (now Ravens) should have given up on him. The idiots there stuck with him and they've suffered through him becoming a 93% kicker last season.

We should trade all our draft picks for proven players, we don't have time to wait for anyone to develop.

[DomerNKC]

I think some people have been fans of this team for to long, you are buying right into how the Chiefs do things like it's the right way.i have been a fan of too for too long. :p

[Frazod]

So is he Stover or Vinateiri? It's so hard to keep track.

Since I'm not aware of a database that keeps track of washout-placekickers-currently-selling-insurance, I can't back up my contention that odds are this guy never catches on anywhere, with anybody. But I'm thinking there may be more than two of them.

And supporting ONE thing these assholes have done this offseason, whether it was for the right reason or not, does not mean I have a candle-lit Carl shrine in my closet.

[DaKCMan AP]

So is he Stover or Vinateiri? It's so hard to keep track.



Neither. Now he's Jason Hanson who should have been cut from the Lions back in 1992 when he was 3/6 after his first 3 games of the season. MORONS! They stuck with him for three whole games! Unfortunately for them their poor decision has led him to having a career 82% FG percentage including 88% last season. Fools!

[Mecca]

Explain to me how the team changes with or without Medlock, at least if they keep him through the year they can see if he gets better and can be a good kicker.

It's not like this team can win anything where a kicker can make a difference. This isn't 95 this team in general is bad.

[DaKCMan AP]

Or maybe he's Jeff Reed, who missed a FG and an XP in his first career start with the Steelers. He went on to kick 89.5 % that season and is over 80% for his career.

[Frazod]

Neither. Now he's Jason Hanson who should have been cut from the Lions back in 1992 when he was 3/6 after his first 3 games of the season. MORONS! They stuck with him for three whole games! Unfortunately for them their poor decision has led him to having a career 82% FG percentage including 88% last season. Fools!

Why don't YOU give ME the winning lottery numbers, since you've obviously got this whole knowing-the-future thing down.

[Mecca]

Why don't YOU give ME the winning lottery numbers, since you've obviously got this whole knowing-the-future thing down.

You think you know the future too.....you are basically banking that he will never be good.

[DaKCMan AP]

Why don't YOU give ME the winning lottery numbers, since you've obviously got this whole knowing-the-future thing down.


I don't know what the future holds for Medlock. However, I do know we wont find out unless he's given the opportunity over the course of at least an entire season.

[Simply Red]

Why don't YOU give ME the winning lottery numbers, since you've obviously got this whole knowing-the-future thing down.
Power Ball? Easy - 4 23 33 40 49 pwr ball - 12

[DomerNKC]

I don't know what the future holds for Medlock. However, I do know we wont find out unless he's given the opportunity over the course of at least an entire season....and there really is nothing to lose either. He is not going to get a lot of practice kicking extra points. Unless the defense scores.

[Frazod]

You think you know the future too.....you are basically banking that he will never be good.

This is a decision I would have made myself for the reasons I've already stated. Could be the right one, could be the wrong one. I guess time will tell.

[wazu]

It's only too soon if we want the #1 pick in 2008.

[DaKCMan AP]

It's only too soon if we want the #1 pick in 2008.

Yeah, because Medlock is what was standing between us and the playoffs. ROFL

[htismaqe]

I don't give a shit about the game. And he's not Vinatieri. He's a kicker who couldn't kick to save his job.

HE SUCKS. HE'S GONE.
THE END.
Perhaps you should take up a f#cking collection for him or something.

I don't care about Medlock.

I care about the Chiefs.

And they, yet again, make a hasty decision in the interest of a mediocre season...

[htismaqe]

Personally, I'm sick of getting burned by choke artist kickers.

How many of them were drafted by us? And how many of them were free agent cast-offs like the guy we JUST SIGNED?

:hmmm:

[Frazod]

I don't care about Medlock.

I care about the Chiefs.

And they, yet again, make a hasty decision in the interest of a mediocre season...

Hasty decision to whack somebody who actually sucks? US? Yeah, those happen every day. :spock:

[htismaqe]

The ball doesn't get stronger, or faster, or hit harder than in high school or college. It's just a ball. Same ball, same goalposts.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

First, Jerry Markbreit:

I have a couple of questions about the special kicking or K balls used in the NFL. Are there differences between the kicking balls and the regular balls, other than the "K" markings on the ball? Are kicking balls used in other levels of the game, such as NCAA or high school? --Jon Luttrell, Bolingbrook, Ill.

There are no differences between the kicking balls and the regular balls, other than the "K" marking. These balls are handled by special ball boys and are kept separated from the regular game balls, even though they are the same. The purpose of the K ball is to make sure that a clean, fresh ball is used for the kicking part of the game. Under NCAA or high school rules, kicking balls are not used; however, each team is allowed to use its own ball when they are on offense.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/askthereferee/cs-061220askjerrymarkbreit,1,1178612.story?coll=cs-bears-asktheref-headlines

And then Jay Feeley:

FBG: One of the adjustments from college to the NFL was the new K-balls used in each game. Does it really make as much difference as we're led to believe?

JF: Yes, it does. The interesting thing is that you can get a good K-ball or a bad K-ball. A K-ball is not a different ball in anyway than the regular game ball; it's just a ball that has not been broken in. The balls the quarterbacks use, they'll take them down, they'll rub them, they'll break them in, and use them throughout the week to have them not be so new. The K-balls are brand new right out of the box. You're not allowed to do anything to them. You're not allowed to kick them at all before the game. You can get a good new ball, or a bad new ball. The difference between a good new ball and a bad new ball is probably about ten yards on a kickoff or a field goal. If you get a bad ball when you go to kickoff, I'll even tell our guys on our kickoff team, "Hey it's a bad ball, be ready for a short kick." Because I know regardless of how well I kick it, it's not gonna come down probably any deeper than the ten yard line.

[htismaqe]

Hasty decision to whack somebody who actually sucks? US? Yeah, those happen every day. :spock:

Do you have ANY idea how many of the starting kickers in today's NFL struggled as rookies?

Honestly, I can't believe you've taken the bait hook, line, and sinker.

[donkhater]

You don't become a kicker that's good enough for a franchise to spend a 5th round pick on by consistently missing 30-yard kicks.

My guess is that Colquitt and the long snapper struggled early in camp adjusting for a left-footed kicker and that messed with Medlock's timing/confidence in his holder. Rather than work through that, KC decided to bail.

I assume Rayner is a right footed kicker so they have to readjust for him now.

Good job, Herm. :rolleyes:

[Frazod]

How many of them were drafted by us? And how many of them were free agent cast-offs like the guy we JUST SIGNED?

:hmmm:

What difference does it make where he came from? HE CAN'T DO HIS JOB. Doesn't matter if we drafted him, traded a pick for him or brought him in from a halfway house - he sucks.

[DomerNKC]

Hasty decision to whack somebody who actually sucks? US? Yeah, those happen every day. :spock:I think we should stay true to form. Your performance should alone seal your fate, just like the kickers performance did. FIRE HERM NOW!!!!!!!

[Ultra Peanut]

An absolutely ****ing retarded move.

"Yeah, kid, the job's yours. Don't worry about it... GET THE **** OUT OF HERE!!!!!!!!!!!"

[htismaqe]

What difference does it make where he came from? HE CAN'T DO HIS JOB. Doesn't matter if we drafted him, traded a pick for him or brought him in from a halfway house - he sucks.

YOU said you were sick of choke artist kickers.

ALL of those choke artist kickers were FREE AGENT CAST-OFFS like the guy we JUST SIGNED. He was 26 of 36 last year in Green Bay - 26 of 36.

It absolutely makes a difference, but only if you're actually interested in CHANGING something. You don't really want a good kicker, because bad kickers make convenient scapegoats. Just ask Herm.

[Frazod]

Do you have ANY idea how many of the starting kickers in today's NFL struggled as rookies?

Honestly, I can't believe you've taken the bait hook, line, and sinker.

I hate Herm. I hate Carl. I'd fire them both in a second if it was up to me. I haven't bought into jackshit. Quit f#cking putting words in my mouth.

ONE THING they've done, I agree with. Firing some idiot who has a 50% failure rating at the one thing he's been hired to do. How long would you last at your job with a 50% failure rate?

And I don't buy into that bullshit with the ball, either. It's still just a damn ball. You don't think he practices with same type of balls he kicks in the game? Give me a break.

[htismaqe]

I hate Herm. I hate Carl. I'd fire them both in a second if it was up to me. I haven't bought into jackshit. Quit f#cking putting words in my mouth.

ONE THING they've done, I agree with. Firing some idiot who has a 50% failure rating at the one thing he's been hired to do. How long would you last at your job with a 50% failure rate?

And I don't buy into that bullshit with the ball, either. It's still just a damn ball. You don't think he practices with same type of balls he kicks in the game? Give me a break.

ROFL

The kickers themselves say it's a HUGE deal, but you don't buy it.

This conversation is over, you've crossed over into Jim territory.

[donkhater]

I hate Herm. I hate Carl. I'd fire them both in a second if it was up to me. I haven't bought into jackshit. Quit f#cking putting words in my mouth.

ONE THING they've done, I agree with. Firing some idiot who has a 50% failure rating at the one thing he's been hired to do. How long would you last at your job with a 50% failure rate?

And I don't buy into that bullshit with the ball, either. It's still just a damn ball. You don't think he practices with same type of balls he kicks in the game? Give me a break.
Morton Anderson missed a 30 yarder in the playoff game against the Colts in 2003. One of the all-time greats.

Yet our draft pick gets one game. One miss. You're cut. Wow.

[Chiefnj2]

Does anyone have stats on how other modern kickers fared in their first NFL games. I'm pretty sure Scobee got off to a rough start and i thought Janikowski might have missed one in his first game.

I voted too soon. I would have given him at least 3 games since the team valued him as a 5th rounder.

[Frazod]

ROFL

The kickers themselves say it's a HUGE deal, but you don't buy it.

This conversation is over, you've crossed over into Jim territory.
There's the f#cking pot calling the kettle black.

And nothing in either of pieces talked about the type of ball affecting missing left or right - it talked about it affecting distance. His kicks have been all over the place. You going to blame that on the f#cking ball, too? Is Medlock your girlfriend or something?

[Skip Towne]

Nick Lowery was cut 8 times before coming to the Chiefs.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Does anyone have stats on how other modern kickers fared in their first NFL games. I'm pretty sure Scobee got off to a rough start and i thought Janikowski might have missed one in his first game.

I voted too soon. I would have given him at least 3 games since the team valued him as a 5th rounder.


Seabass missed THREE yesterday alone. He's been in the league what, 6 years?

And he was a FIRST ROUND PICK.

[Coach]

I guess what I can't understand is that most of us accepted the fact that the Chiefs isn't going anywhere this year. So wouldn't the simple logic tell you that let the kicker work out his problems this year, regardless of what happens?

[Ultra Peanut]

There's the f#cking pot calling the kettle black.

And nothing in either of pieces talked about the type of ball affecting missing left or right - it talked about it affecting distance. His kicks have been all over the place. You going to blame that on the f#cking ball, too? Is Medlock your girlfriend or something?KICKERS ARE JERKS GRRRRRRRR

[donkhater]

I put the blame on Medlock, but not all of it.

Kickers get into a rythym kicking the ball. To start your career with a snapper and holder having to adjust to your left foot, it's got to be damn hard to get that timing and trust down pat. It is the snapper and holder's jobs to keep Medlock from having to worry about the ball being in the right place at the right time.

Cut Medlock, but you could easily cut Colquitt and the long snapper (I can't remember his name) for his inconsistent start.

[htismaqe]

There's the f#cking pot calling the kettle black.

And nothing in either of pieces talked about the type of ball affecting missing left or right - it talked about it affecting distance. His kicks have been all over the place. You going to blame that on the f#cking ball, too? Is Medlock your girlfriend or something?

Like I said before (and you conveniently ignored since it doesn't jive with your view) I don't care about Medlock.

I care about the Chiefs.

I would like to see the Chiefs BUILD a team that can contend for a Super Bowl. Cutting a rookie, AT ANY POSITION, after one game is a DESPERATE move, and not the type of move a champion makes.

Enjoy it, they did what you wanted. And 5 years from now, when we're still wondering where our next free agent kicker is going to come from, I hope you're still enjoying it.

[Fish]

Seabass missed THREE yesterday alone. He's been in the league what, 6 years?

And he was a FIRST ROUND PICK.

Cut his ass..... we won't stand for this BS.....

:BLVD:

[Zouk]

This was a bad pick to begin with. The smart way to go is to let other teams bear the costs of breaking in young kickers.

That being said - I doubt Medlock ever makes it. It's tougher for lefty kickers, since it makes it so uncomfortable for the snappers and holders. And what really made me question him was his pathetic kickoff in the Browns game after he nailed a 40 yarder.

But Dave Rayner seems promising. What's not to like? He was pretty decent last year even though the Packers had multiple games in freezing and wet conditions. KC ain't Southern California.

[siberian khatru]

Like I said before (and you conveniently ignored since it doesn't jive with your view) I don't care about Medlock.

I care about the Chiefs.

I would like to see the Chiefs BUILD a team that can contend for a Super Bowl. Cutting a rookie, AT ANY POSITION, after one game is a DESPERATE move, and not the type of move a champion makes.


What he said.

[Mecca]

Seabass missed THREE yesterday alone. He's been in the league what, 6 years?

And he was a FIRST ROUND PICK.

In fairness they were all like 50 yarders.

[donkhater]

In fairness they were all like 50 yarders.
Seabass doesn't get that benefit of the doubt. He was drafted in the first round because he is supposed to make 50+ yard field goals.

[Mecca]

1 of them was like 57 yards it's not like very many guys will ever knock that down.

[Zouk]

Like I said before (and you conveniently ignored since it doesn't jive with your view) I don't care about Medlock.

I care about the Chiefs.

I would like to see the Chiefs BUILD a team that can contend for a Super Bowl. Cutting a rookie, AT ANY POSITION, after one game is a DESPERATE move, and not the type of move a champion makes.

Enjoy it, they did what you wanted. And 5 years from now, when we're still wondering where our next free agent kicker is going to come from, I hope you're still enjoying it.


This is really silly. Kickers are not like any other positon on the football team, because there is only 1 of them. And they frequently hold the whole game in their hands. You want to keep a 5th rounder who missed loads of kicks in practice, preseason, and his 1 real game based on what Adam Vinatieri did 10 years ago? Is there anything he could have done to lose the job in your eyes?

The team has got youth all over on D and is inexorably moving towards Croyle and Bowe on offense. The Chiefs are clearly transitioning towards youth, just let it develop.

[htismaqe]

This is really silly. Kickers are not like any other positon on the football team, because there is only 1 of them. And they frequently hold the whole game in their hands. You want to keep a 5th rounder who missed loads of kicks in practice, preseason, and his 1 real game based on what Adam Vinatieri did 10 years ago? Is there anything he could have done to lose the job in your eyes?

Adam Vinatieri is a convenient one.

At least TEN others have been named today in various threads.

As for what he could have done in my eyes - how about "miss 50% of his kicks over FIVE games instead of ONE".

The team has got youth all over on D and is inexorably moving towards Croyle and Bowe on offense. The Chiefs are clearly transitioning towards youth, just let it develop.

ROFL

You're asking me to "let it develop" in the same breath that your condoning them cutting a rookie after ONE GAME.

[Frazod]

For a kicker playing for his job, how the hell is a preseason game different from a regular season game?

Is the ball vanilla?

Do they put in third string goal posts in the second half?

Please, enlighten me. :whackit:

[Coach]

For a kicker playing for his job, how the hell is a preseason game different from a regular season game?

Is the ball vanilla?

Do they put in third string goal posts in the second half?

Please, enlighten me. :whackit:

Going from a college football to those special "K" balls does make a difference.

I know I can't explain it, but the majority of the rookie kickers has mentioned that the ball is completely different from the college level, and it does take adjusting to it.

[Frazod]

Going from a college football to those special "K" balls does make a difference.

I know I can't explain it, but the majority of the rookie kickers has mentioned that the ball is completely different from the college level, and it does take adjusting to it.

That wasn't my question. Everybody's got their tit in a ringer because he was greased after one regular season game. But he also played in four preseason games and sucked in them as well. I'm thinking they don't use college balls in either preseason NFL games or NFL practice, so he should have had plenty of time to adjust. And again, according the articles sited by the Great-And-All-Knowing-Parker, the main effect is on distance, not accuracy.

[Deberg_1990]

I wish we could have had a bonus episode of Hard Knocks this week:

Medlock meets Mr. Farmer

[Coach]

That wasn't my question. Everybody's got their tit in a ringer because he was greased after one regular season game. But he also played in four preseason games and sucked in them as well. I'm thinking they don't use college balls in either preseason NFL games or NFL practice, so he should have had plenty of time to adjust. And again, according the articles sited by the Great-And-All-Knowing-Parker, the main effect is on distance, not accuracy.

Ah, my apologies. I mis-read your question. I know that he sucked in all 4 pre-season games, but they were "pre-season" games per-se'.

But I'm just simply saying, the majority of us here accepted the fact that the Chiefs aren't going anywhere, except possibly dead last in the AFC West, right?

If so, wouldn't it be fair to at least give him the benefit of the doubt for him to grow, make adjustments, etc? I mean, if Brodie Croyle threw 2 INT's, both of them thrown in the redzone, should the Chiefs get rid of him becuase of the bad performance?

If it was the Chiefs who were projected to make the playoffs, THEN I can understand the argument of shitcanning our kicker. But the odds of the Chiefs making the playoffs is very slim to none, especially with the way our offense has been performing.

And really, if you put it all together, the kicking is the least of the problems. The offense IS THE problem. If the offense actually can get TD's instead of settling FG's, then we wouldn't have this discussion.

[Zouk]

Adam Vinatieri is a convenient one.

At least TEN others have been named today in various threads.

As for what he could have done in my eyes - how about "miss 50% of his kicks over FIVE games instead of ONE".



ROFL

You're asking me to "let it develop" in the same breath that your condoning them cutting a rookie after ONE GAME.


There is no way you can hold the rest of the team hostage in the hopes of developing a kicker.

A quarterback yes, a kicker no.

And we did not make a Janikowski or Nugent-level investment in this kid. We're talking about a 5th round pick. 10-20 players drafted ahead of Medlock have already been cut.

I was scared to death about having this guy kick to Hester. Rayner is outstanding on kickoffs - kicking it high, not necessarily deep (see Ellis Hobbs yesterday, a deep kick is not always as good as a high one).

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/dr_z/10/11/kick.record/index.html

[Frazod]

My point about the games is for a KICKER there really is no difference between a preseason game and a regular season game. Vanilla playcalling and third string rejects have nothing to do with the mechanics of a kicker kicking.

We've watched this guy suck for over a month. Hell, we've also got to watch him suck on HBO. I had personally seen enough. Now, if he was cut to, as most here think, appease the fans, that's wrong. But if he was cut because the coaches just made the decision that he was beyond redemption, well, that's the way I see it, too.

[Fish]

And if Rayner makes 1/2 or heaven forbid...1/3 in the next game??

Who then will the scapegoat be? Can we shitcan another kicker?

[Coach]

My point about the games is for a KICKER there really is no difference between a preseason game and a regular season game. Vanilla playcalling and third string rejects have nothing to do with the mechanics of a kicker kicking.

We've watched this guy suck for over a month. Hell, we've also got to watch him suck on HBO. I had personally seen enough. Now, if he was cut to, as most here think, appease the fans, that's wrong. But if he was cut because the coaches just made the decision that he was beyond redemption, well, that's the way I see it, too.

I think that he was cut just to appease the fans. I just can't see how the coaches can cut him becuase of just 4 pre-season and 1 actual NFL game that he was beyond redemption.

As I mentioned, Bowe was selected as our receiver, who's supposed to be catching the ball and making blocks. I haven't seen him do that within the past 3 games (2 preseason and 1 live NFL game) and add in the drops. Is he beyond redemption as well?

[Frazod]

I think that he was cut just to appease the fans. I just can't see how the coaches can cut him becuase of just 4 pre-season and 1 actual NFL game that he was beyond redemption.

As I mentioned, Bowe was selected as our receiver, who's supposed to be catching the ball and making blocks. I haven't seen him do that within the past 3 games (2 preseason and 1 live NFL game) and add in the drops. Is he beyond redemption as well?

Huge difference between WR and PK. That's not a fair comparison.

[ARROW2]

"He's the kiiiiiiiiiickeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrr!!"

[ChiTown]

The fact that some of you guys don't see this as another act to maintain mediocrity, absolutely astounds me. "Hurry, if we whack our 5th rd PK for another scrub, we might be able to get to 6 wins this year.

This is a move of desperation, after WEEK FUGGIN 1!!!!!!!!

[PastorMikH]

I think it is too soon personally. How are we supposed to develope youth if we yank them with they make a mistake [have a learning opportunity]. I wonder how many rookie kickers through the course of NFL history hit their first FG attempt. I hope he clears waivers and makes it to the practice squad.

Add in that we bring in a guy that isn't exactly automatic to replace him.


BTW, we use a 5th round pick to take a guy so we don't need the other guy and trade the other guy for a 7th round pick, then cut the first guy. Why didn't we just trade the Giants our '07 5th for their '08 7th and keep Tynes?:rolleyes:

[Bwana]

IMHO............good move.

[wazu]

Yeah, because Medlock is what was standing between us and the playoffs. ROFL

No, as stated, he was the man who gave us a legitimate shot at a #1 pick. He would have lost us 3 games single-handedly.

[Mecca]

It's time to admit the Chiefs are not about developing young players.....

It doesn't jive with Peterson's role as president and making money off the stadium being full.

[PastorMikH]

No, as stated, he was the man who gave us a legitimate shot at a #1 pick. He would have lost us 3 games single-handedly.


Only if our O gave up a safety, our D held their O scoreless the entire game AND recovered a fumble inside FG range with the game winding down - in three different games...


(I guess I'm still frustrated with what I saw yesterday)