What's the deal..some thoughts on the team

[Mecca]

Ok I'll make a thread for this because well I'm gonna throw a lot of shit out here because I've been thinking about this.

Ok firstly it's pretty obvious what the Chiefs are trying to do here. With their typical status quo of winning their 7 games and giving the illusion of competing. It obviously isn't going to work there because they banked on a few things happening, like Huard playing like last year, that obviously won't.

So here's my thing, why do people support this crap? You support just competing, really why? We should demand and strive to be a top organization on the field like the Pats or Colts that compete for a Bowl year in and year out.

Instead we are fed this same crap year in and year out to keep buying tickets and filling up Carls pocket while he puts inferior teams on the field that we know have no chance of winning anything. Then we have fans who actually back this up and act like it is a good thing. Just getting in the playoffs isn't good enough, we knew before last years playoffs even started we had no chance to win the Bowl.

Or how about the pure deflection of "well we aren't any worse off than last year" really you wanna be like last year? Just making the playoffs isn't successful and should be viewed as such. It's as if some take some sort of success in trying not to be a complete bottom feeder and that's good enough.

Or "Damn it we should be 26 instead of 32 in the power ranking we aren't that bad" really who gives a ****? Either way the team isn't good and will not be winning anything.

Personally I think this organization and some of the people who support it need a wakeup call. There needs to be major change, I hope they go 0-16 to get Carl, Herm and all of those dipshits out of here. Now someone will call me a shitty fan for wanting the team to lose but guess what, I don't care. It's for the best of the future of the team..

I think sitting around swallowing everything the team feeds you hook line and sinker and blindly supporting a team makes you a shitty ****in fan. We all follow this team we have every right to bitch when they do stupid shit or don't do what they should. Right now the Chiefs deserved to be bashed to every degree possible. Just because I and some other fans believe that while others don't doesn't make one group a better fan than others we just have different views on that.

But at the same time I don't ever play the card that gets played on us numerous times like "you aren't a fan of this team **** you" really I'm not? I don't fire back with well "what are you a dipshit you blindly support an organization that is doing nothing but taking your money and being inferior".

This team has earned every bit if bashing and media smearing they get, they haven't won anything since I was born. They've done a hell of a job at deflecting that into making people think they are this great organization when they aren't.

All in all this team needs a making ****ing enema and if going 0-16 will get that done then I'm all for it. This team needs to get a real direction and a real identity because at this time and for a long time that hasn't existed.

We as fans should demand excellence from this team not the mediocrity they strive for each and every year.

[Bob Dole]

Bob Dole is a "better fan" because Bob Dole is taller.

[The Franchise]

Bob Dole is a "better fan" because Bob Dole is taller.

Does that make me a better fan because I'm wider?

[Mecca]

Bob Dole is a "better fan" because Bob Dole is taller.

You also have cooler eyebrows so I'll go with that.

[MichaelH]

It's been the same crap each year for many years. And the question remains, Why support the Chiefs? I do because they're my favorite team. I don't like the present coaching staff and I wish Peterson's nuts sack would catch on fire and fall off. But I love the Chiefs. I have since birth. I has pained me many times to keep being supportive. This year, All I hope for is some wins that I can see on TV. And hopefully a good draft next year.

[Baby Lee]

In the immortal words of David St. Hubbins, "it's a fine line between stupid and clever.'
Think of the crappy 1998 Rams, and what they became.
Think of the crappy 1999 Ravens, particularly after we whipped them mercilessly in the regular season, and what they became.
The naming of Huard as the starter is a deep dark stain on progress. Otherwise, I'm seeing glimpses of potential, enough to keep me interested.

[Bob Dole]

You also have cooler eyebrows so I'll go with that.

Bob Dole will have you know that the eyebrows were fully groomed by a strange, scissor-bearing female visitor just a few weeks ago.

[Dartgod]

So because I don't want to give up my season tickets, that I've had for nearly 20 years, that makes me a shitty fan?

You're a ****ing retard.

[Mecca]

No...you took that the wrong way....

[KcMizzou]

In the immortal words of David St. Hubbins, "it's a fine line between stupid and clever.'
Think of the crappy 1998 Rams, and what they became.
Think of the crappy 1999 Ravens, particularly after we whipped them mercilessly in the regular season, and what they became.
The naming of Huard as the starter is a deep dark stain on progress. Otherwise, I'm seeing glimpses of potential, enough to keep me interested.We do seem to have more young players with potential than we did in the Vermiel days. I like what Herm's done so far in the draft.

If he is as bad as everyone says, he won't be around for more than a couple more seasons, and the cupboard won't be bare for the next guy.

As for why I, personally, support the Chiefs... well, I'm a Chiefs fan. I don't know anything else. I may want change, but I'm not going to trash every player at every position, and act like they're all a bunch of worthless scrubs.

I support Mizzou and the Royals when they're shitty too. That doesn't mean I don't get pissed, but I do tend to look for reasons for optimism.

I do wish they'd just commit to developing the youth (i.e. starting Croyle), and forget about trying to pretend this season's team is something it isn't.

[TinyEvel]

This reminds me of part of a corny email my aunt sent me...

4 - Fourth Important Lesson. - The obstacle in Our Path.

In ancient times, a King had a boulder placed on a
roadway. Then he hid himself and watched to see if
anyone would remove the huge rock. Some of the
king's wealthiest merchants and cou rtiers came by
and simply walked around it. Many loudly blamed the
King for not keeping! the roads clear, but none did
anything about getting the stone out of the way.

Then a peasant came along carrying a load of
vegetables. Upon approaching the boulder, the
peasant laid down his burden and tried to move the
stone to the side of the road. After much pushing
and straining, he finally succeeded. After the
peasant picked up his load of vegetables, he noticed
a purse lying in the road where the boulder had
been. The purse contained many gold coins and a note
from the King indicating that the gold was for the
person who removed the boulder from the roadway. The
peasant learned what many of us never understand!

Every obstacle presents an opportunity to improve
our condition.

[Bob Dole]

Every obstacle presents an opportunity to improve
our condition.

That was before the invention of the Victim Card.

[beach tribe]

Look dude, you can sit around and bitch , and make the same complaints, about the same obvious shit, that we ALL have to endure, over and over and over, but the fact is.....WE CAN'T DO SHIT ABOUT IT. This team is what we've got for THIS SEASON. Do I hate and despise our front office and coaching staff? YES. Do I want to go to the Playoffs? Hell Yea! I want to see this franchise change it's ways, but if we go 4-12, OR 10-6 Carl aint going anywhere, and I would much rather beat down the Donks Bolts and Raiduhs a little until the idiots are finally gone. It won't be this year or next, but you can beat a dead horse if you want.

[orange]

...

So here's my thing, why do people support this crap? You support just competing, really why? We should demand and strive to be a top organization on the field like the Pats or Colts that compete for a Bowl year in and year out.

...

The Pats and Colts "compete for a Bowl year in and year out" because they have deluxe quarterbacks.

The Colts got theirs by really, really sucking and getting lucky that a great one became available on their year.

The Patriots got lucky in the sixth round with a guy who no one - not even them - really wanted.

When you have one of those quarterbacks, you can build a winner around him. Look at Philadelphia when McNabb was good (healthy). A team without a legitimate running game and still they were in the championship round year after year.

The number of teams that are good year in and year out without a special quarterback are few and far between. Only Denver and Pittsburgh come to mind off the top of my head... and the common denominator there is coaching.

Chiefs -> No top QB. No top coach. No realistic championship aspirations. Past, present, ... and future?

[cdcox]

I bash Herm because I'm loyal to the TEAM, not the individuals on it.

The fans are the legacy of any team. They stick around longer than players, coaches, GMs and even owners. I was here before Carl, and I'll be around long after he is gone.

So I'll bash whoever I please. That doesn't mean I don't support the team.

[the Talking Can]

preach on brother...

[Mecca]

I bash Herm because I'm loyal to the TEAM, not the individuals on it.

The fans are the legacy of any team. They stick around longer than players, coaches, GMs and even owners. I was here before Carl, and I'll be around long after he is gone.

So I'll bash whoever I please. That doesn't mean I don't support the team.

That is what I agree with 100%

[FringeNC]

What does rebuilding mean in the current NFL? How come NE never rebuilds? The reason we suck is because we have a bad GM and terrible coach. The problem isn't that we refuse to rebuild, the problem is Carl and Herm simply don't know what they are doing.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I completely agree with the thread starter. This team needs its marionettes exposed for what they are for us to have any chance to succeed.

Carl (and Herm) will never take the requisite risks of succeeding because they are too afraid of failure.

Until those tumors (along with Kuharich) are expunged from this franchise, we have little hope.

[Mecca]

What does rebuilding mean in the current NFL? How come NE never rebuilds? The reason we suck is because we have a bad GM and terrible coach. The problem isn't that we refuse to rebuild, the problem is Carl and Herm simply don't know what they are doing.

Those teams have successful coaches and systems in place along with the core group of players.....

They are also good in the draft and know when to let guys walk away and replace them without much of an issue, that is why.

Us on the other hand we continue to resign our old players that use to be good because fans have an attachment to them...

The Colts walked away from Edge James, what did we do with our RB?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

The Pats and Colts "compete for a Bowl year in and year out" because they have deluxe quarterbacks.

The Colts got theirs by really, really sucking and getting lucky that a great one became available on their year.

The Patriots got lucky in the sixth round with a guy who no one - not even them - really wanted.



The Dolphins were not serious contenders for the last 12 years of Marino's tenure there.

To my best knowledge, Warren Moon never even played in a Championship game.

One of the main reasons why is that they couldn't field teams that were balanced offensively, or that had a competitive defense.

Simply saying that you need a QB and that solves all ills is a gross oversimplification.

Horseface got smoked in the Bowl until he had a 2000 yard rusher and a top 5 defense.

[FringeNC]

Those teams have successful coaches and systems in place along with the core group of players.....

They are also good in the draft and know when to let guys walk away and replace them without much of an issue, that is why.

Us on the other hand we continue to resign our old players that use to be good because fans have an attachment to them...

The Colts walked away from Edge James, what did we do with our RB?

Exactly. These teams will let their aging stars walk -- something Carl won't do (Trent Green is the exception -- and he was purged because he was part of the old guard that undermined the Hermification of the offense). It's not such much rebuilding as reloading. Carl doesn't know how to build a winner, and Herm couldn't coach himself out of a wet paper bag, and they both believe winning playoff games is a coin flip rather than the team that has invested in the higher-payoff schemes winning.

[Hammock Parties]

What's wrong with Kuharich?

[Mecca]

He's another Carl cronie...he's also a guy who traded an entire draft for 1 player.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

What's wrong with Kuharich?

Other than the fact that he traded away his entire draft for one player....nothing.

[Hammock Parties]

Other than the fact that he traded away his entire draft for one player....nothing.

Who cares what he did in New Orleans?

Since he replaced Lynn Stiles our drafts have been much better. I don't see the problem with the guy.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Who cares what he did in New Orleans?

Since he replaced Lynn Stiles our drafts have been much better. I don't see the problem with the guy.

Then we should hire Rich Kotite after Herm gets the axe. Who cares what he did with the Jets??

[Mecca]

We need an entirely new front office.

[cdcox]

We need an entirely new front office.

Ding.

Kuharich as GM (after Carl retires or moves to a higher position) will just be a continuation of more of the same.

[tk13]

I just don't feel very confident that they'll overhaul the entire front office kinda like the Royals did. If we do truly end up with one of the worst 2-3 records in the league... maybe Carl would retire. I could see that happening. But I'd bet the top 2 candidates would be Kuharich and Terry Bradway.

[orange]

...
Simply saying that you need a QB and that solves all ills is a gross oversimplification.



And who exactly ever said that in the first place?

...

When you have one of those quarterbacks, you can build a winner around him. Look at Philadelphia when McNabb was good (healthy). A team without a legitimate running game and still they were in the championship round year after year.

...

(Emphasis added for readers with poor eyesight)

[Hammock Parties]

Denny Thum is going to be the GM.

[orange]

...

When you have one of those quarterbacks, you can build a winner around him. Look at Philadelphia when McNabb was good (healthy). A team without a legitimate running game and still they were in the championship round year after year.

...

Good luck building a winner around SF's or Minnesota's or Miami's third-string castoffs, though.

(And before you say "Marty won with those guys," remember we're talking about winning championships, here)

[Mecca]

Denny Thum is going to be the GM.

And that is a problem with this organization....

The only way we'll ever get what we really need is for this team to be so bad we become a national laughing stock.

[cdcox]

Denny Thum is going to be the GM.

Whew! At least we don't have to worry about Denny getting it.

[Hammock Parties]

Why is everyone so upset with the front office? I think Thum and Kuharich know what they're doing.

[ChiefsCountry]

Denny Thum is going to be the GM.

He will be president but I seriousally doubt he will be gm.

[Hammock Parties]

He will be president but I seriousally doubt he will be gm.

He's already Carl's right hand man...

[Mecca]

Why is everyone so upset with the front office? I think Thum and Kuharich know what they're doing.

Kuharich was shitty with the Saints, Terry Bradway worked here when he got his GM shot he sucked....

Our front office is great at breeding mediocrity and other shitty GM's, we have every right to be upset with them.

[ChiefsCountry]

He's already Carl's right hand man...

True but like I said he will be president but somebody else will have the title of GM.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

And who exactly ever said that in the first place?



(Emphasis added for readers with poor eyesight)



The Pats and Colts "compete for a Bowl year in and year out" because they have deluxe quarterbacks.



You tell me, ****stick.

[orange]

You tell me, ****stick.


When you have one of those quarterbacks, you can build a winner around him

The line you deliberately cut out of your so-called quote above.

[RustShack]

our offense could be good if we had a QB. We have decent receivers(Bowe on the uprise so they should only get better), great receiving TE, very good receiving FB, one of the top RB's in the NFL, Improved Oline from last year. All we need is someone other that Huard to step in. We need to put Croyle in, test him out, hopefully open up the offense to make him and the rest of the team better. If he dosn't have an absolute horrible year keep him because the experience should only make him better for next year. If he totally sucks draft a QB first round. I don't see the CHIEFS drafting a QB first for a long long time though. I just really want to see some offense coaching changes after this year, ESPECIALLY IF THEY DON'T CHANGE THEIR SHITTY PLAY CALLING SOON.

[Mecca]

I don't care how much talent is on that offense we'll never be good because Herm doesn't want it to be good.

[KcMizzou]

our offense could be good if we had a QB. We have decent receivers(Bowe on the uprise so they should only get better), great receiving TE, very good receiving FB, one of the top RB's in the NFL, Improved Oline from last year. All we need is someone other that Huard to step in. We need to put Croyle in, test him out, hopefully open up the offense to make him and the rest of the team better. If he dosn't have an absolute horrible year keep him because the experience should only make him better for next year. If he totally sucks draft a QB first round. I don't see the CHIEFS drafting a QB first for a long long time though. I just really want to see some offense coaching changes after this year, ESPECIALLY IF THEY DON'T CHANGE THEIR SHITTY PLAY CALLING SOON.You've got to trust the O-line enough to throw down field. If you don't, improve the line.

We've been playing scared on offense.

I want to see Croyle play, but I'm afraid they'll hamstring him with playcalling. We're so scared of losing, we.... well... lose.

[KcMizzou]

I don't care how much talent is on that offense we'll never be good because Herm doesn't want it to be good.Come on now... I don't believe that. Do you think Herm gets pissed if his team scores points?

That's just moronic.

[RustShack]

As long as McIntosh is in there, I have plenty of faith in the line. Svitek in there is another story.

[cdcox]

our offense could be good if we had a QB. We have decent receivers(Bowe on the uprise so they should only get better), great receiving TE, very good receiving FB, one of the top RB's in the NFL, Improved Oline from last year. All we need is someone other that Huard to step in. We need to put Croyle in, test him out, hopefully open up the offense to make him and the rest of the team better. If he dosn't have an absolute horrible year keep him because the experience should only make him better for next year. If he totally sucks draft a QB first round. I don't see the CHIEFS drafting a QB first for a long long time though. I just really want to see some offense coaching changes after this year, ESPECIALLY IF THEY DON'T CHANGE THEIR SHITTY PLAY CALLING SOON.

Herm is the offensive philosopher of this team. Changing the offensive coaches won't have any effect.

[Logical]

Good luck building a winner around SF's or Minnesota's or Miami's third-string castoffs, though.

(And before you say "Marty won with those guys," remember we're talking about winning championships, here)

By the way Denver has won no championships post premier QB (Elway) so much for your superior coaching statement for the Broncos.

[KcMizzou]

By the way Denver has won no championships post premier QB (Elway) so much for your superior coaching statement for the Broncos.Jim? Is that really you?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

When you have one of those quarterbacks, you can build a winner around him

The line you deliberately cut out of your so-called quote above.

Deliberately cut out? It was two paragraphs down, you dumb sonofabitch, and it clearly wasn't the main thrust of your post.

You can build a winner when you don't have one of the best five QBs of all-time. Of course you can build a winner around those guys...that wasn't the point. You can build a winner around Jim McMahon or Bob Griese. The point is, and once again, referring to your initial post, that it's not simply because of the QB position that those teams are good.

You said they compete year in and year out because they have deluxe QB's, which I have now quoted twice. Would you like Print-Screen proof as well?

The truth is that they compete year in and year out because they have the best two FO's in the league AND because they get great play out of the most important position on the field.

[Logical]

Come on now... I don't believe that. Do you think Herm gets pissed if his team scores points?

That's just moronic.

No, but Herm is worried the offense will move the ball quickly and efficiently thus putting his beloved defense on the field faster. Mecca is not entirely wrong.

[Logical]

Jim? Is that really you?I hate for anybody to try and get away with bullshit. I really don't hate the Chiefs, just the way they are run.

[KcMizzou]

No, but Herm is worried the offense will move the ball quickly and efficiently thus putting his beloved defense on the field faster. Mecca is not entirely wrong.I know... I understand the thought process, but.... damn.

You score every chance you get, right?

I find it hard to believe that Herm would ever be upset that his offense scored. I can't really wrap my head around that.

The "30 points is ARL" stuff was a joke.

[stevieray]

Demanding excellence in a league of parity with a game that can be determined by a lucky bounce, a half step, a FG in the last second or a one missed tackle? A game that can change on a single play?

No wonder you are a wrestling fan.


Just because the media have made the players and coaches bigger than the game.. still doen't guarantee any absolutes, other than its the game that people love, and it's the game that will continue to bring people to Arrowhead, regardless of the over indulged, self-entitlement rhetoric that propigates todays sports world. The Chiefs don't owe you a damn thing, not one person in that organization forces you to be a fan. That is a choice you make...if you can't handle the consequences that come with that choice, that's on you.

[KcMizzou]

Demanding excellence in a league of parity with a game that can be determined by a lucky bounce, a half step, a FG in the last second or a one missed tackle? A game that can change on a single play?

No wonder you are a wrestling fan.


Just because the media have made the players and coaches bigger than the game.. still doen't guarantee any absolutes, other than its the game that people love, and it's the game that will continue to bring people to Arrowhead, regardless of the over indulged self entitlement rhetoric that propigated todays sports world. The Chiefs don't owe you a damn thing, not one person in that organization forces you to be a fan. That is a choice you make...if you can't handke the consequences that come with it, that's on you.Great points. Great post.

[Dartgod]

The number of teams that are good year in and year out without a special quarterback are few and far between. Only Denver and Pittsburgh come to mind off the top of my head... and the common denominator there is coaching.
The Donkeys have won exactly ONE playoff game since Horseface left. You obviously don't know what the **** you are talking about.

[ChiefsCountry]

Dang Herm has more playoffs wins than Shanrat since Elway retired.

[Logical]

Demanding excellence in a league of parity with a game that can be determined by a lucky bounce, a half step, a FG in the last second or a one missed tackle? A game that can change on a single play?

No wonder you are a wrestling fan.


Just because the media have made the players and coaches bigger than the game.. still doen't guarantee any absolutes, other than its the game that people love, and it's the game that will continue to bring people to Arrowhead, regardless of the over indulged, self-entitlement rhetoric that propigates todays sports world. The Chiefs don't owe you a damn thing, not one person in that organization forces you to be a fan. That is a choice you make...if you can't handle the consequences that come with that choice, that's on you.

I call BS, demanding a championship once in two decades is not being unreasonable. Look at the last 20 years, Seattle, Oakland, Denver all have been to the Super Bowl only the Chiefs have not. Hell some of us would just be satisfied to win two or three playoff games and get to the AFC championship again.

[Mecca]

I enjoy how being a fan of wrestling is brought into this, that has nothing to do with this convo and is completely pointless to even bring up.

If you wanna be happy with mediocrity that is great, but there is a reason the same 2 teams have been Superbowl favorites every year for 5 years now...and 1 of those 2 seems to always be in there..or at least playing for that chance.

We accepted this mediocrity for far to long, we can't even get a damn playoff win. We as far as success which is what this league is about are a bottom feeder. We dwell with the Lions of the world, we just have some nice regular seasons to fool people into thinking we aren't.

At least other teams appear to try to win, any other team would have canned Carl's ass years ago, but not this one....being competitive is good enough to the Chiefs and apparently good enough for a lot of fans as well.

[KcMizzou]

I enjoy how being a fan of wrestling is brought into this, that has nothing to do with this convo and is completely pointless to even bring up.

If you wanna be happy with mediocrity that is great, but there is a reason the same 2 teams have been Superbowl favorites every year for 5 years now...and 1 of those 2 seems to always be in there..or at least playing for that chance.

We accepted this mediocrity for far to long, we can't even get a damn playoff win. We as far as success which is what this league is about are a bottom feeder. We dwell with the Lions of the world, we just have some nice regular seasons to fool people into thinking we aren't.

At least other teams appear to try to win, any other team would have canned Carl's ass years ago, but not this one....being competitive is good enough to the Chiefs and apparently good enough for a lot of fans as well. Ok, so how do we, as fans, change it?

You're in charge, Mecca.

[Dartgod]

I enjoy how being a fan of wrestling is brought into this, that has nothing to do with this convo and is completely pointless to even bring up.

If you wanna be happy with mediocrity that is great, but there is a reason the same 2 teams have been Superbowl favorites every year for 5 years now...and 1 of those 2 seems to always be in there..or at least playing for that chance.

We accepted this mediocrity for far to long, we can't even get a damn playoff win. We as far as success which is what this league is about are a bottom feeder. We dwell with the Lions of the world, we just have some nice regular seasons to fool people into thinking we aren't.

At least other teams appear to try to win, any other team would have canned Carl's ass years ago, but not this one....being competitive is good enough to the Chiefs and apparently good enough for a lot of fans as well.
KCMizzou already posted what I was going to say.

I've been to tons of games and talked to a lot of fans and I have yet to find one who is happy with the situation in the front office. But at the same time, the majority of them (me included) go to the games because we enjoy the game day experience. It goes way beyond the bufoons who are in charge of the team.

I'll be damned if I'm going to give that experience up to send some kind of "message" to King Carl.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Demanding excellence in a league of parity with a game that can be determined by a lucky bounce, a half step, a FG in the last second or a one missed tackle? A game that can change on a single play?

No wonder you are a wrestling fan.


Just because the media have made the players and coaches bigger than the game.. still doen't guarantee any absolutes, other than its the game that people love, and it's the game that will continue to bring people to Arrowhead, regardless of the over indulged, self-entitlement rhetoric that propigates todays sports world. The Chiefs don't owe you a damn thing, not one person in that organization forces you to be a fan. That is a choice you make...if you can't handle the consequences that come with that choice, that's on you.


Who supports the franchise??

How does Clark pay his players??

Who buys the products, that advertisers promote, that leads to fat television contracts??

Who spends hours of their lives that they don't have to following and dedicating their time to a football team.

Look, most people don't really choose what football team they want to root for, and the ones who do are usually fairweather fans.

Demanding excellence does not mean that we are demanding that the team win the bowl every year. But if we are going to continue to invest our time and money, we should at least be treated to a concerted attempt by our team to attempt to win a Super Bowl, rather than worry about the profit margins, and keeping asses in the seats.

THE CHIEFS OWE US EVERYTHING...

Arrowhead was a f*cking ghostown in the 1980's. Kauffman outdrew it. The Chiefs don't have a homefield advantage without us, and all those years of narrow playoff births become playoff misses.

For someone who owns his own business, I find it astounding that you don't realize that a businessman's ultimate responsibility is to his customers, and when things get in the way of that, things fall apart.

[orange]

By the way Denver has won no championships post premier QB (Elway) so much for your superior coaching statement for the Broncos.

They played in the AFC Championship game two years ago, with Jake Plummer.

That's farther than Marty ever got with any team* not quarterbacked by someone named Montana, right?

*out of at least four, to my recollection

['Hamas' Jenkins]

They played in the AFC Championship game two years ago, with Jake Plummer.

That's farther than Marty ever got with any team not quarterbacked by someone named Montana, right?

Bernie Kosar just called...

You're a dumbass.

[L.A. Chieffan]

I would settle for competence. Super Bowl or no, there's no excuse for idiotic decisions.

[Halfcan]

When the schedule came out-I figured we would be 0-2 going into the H O. I see us breaking the losing streak-at least for a week.

[orange]

Bernie Kosar just called...


I'll give you that one.

(Though I'm surprised you could make out what Bernie had to say through the sobbing)

[L.A. Chieffan]

They played in the AFC Championship game two years ago, with Jake Plummer.

That's farther than Marty ever got with any team* not quarterbacked by someone named Montana, right?

*out of at least four, to my recollection
You obviously know dick. Please go blow the barrel man. Thanks.

[orange]

I'll give you that one.

(Though I'm surprised you could make out what Bernie had to say through the sobbing)


I guess Kosar was just better than all those other Chiefs qbs.

[Dartgod]

They played in the AFC Championship game two years ago, with Jake Plummer.

That's farther than Marty ever got with any team* not quarterbacked by someone named Montana, right?

*out of at least four, to my recollection
That was a gift from the refs, no way they deserved to beat NE that year to advance.

And one season out of eight is hardly being good "year in and year out".

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I just Kosar was just better than all those other Chiefs qbs.

I'm sure you're going to need another one soon, with the hole that your dumbassery has dug you...

Consider it an early Xmas gift

http://www.erichufschmid.net/Dumb-down/shovel.jpg


Now go pull your dick through your asshole.

[KcMizzou]

When the schedule came out-I figured we would be 0-2 going into the H O. I see us breaking the losing streak-at least for a week.Meh... I gave you a hard time... but it's about time somebody had some positivity.

This is not a bad team. It's not great, but it's not bad either. We'll have a winning record at Arrowhead... we always do.

[orange]

The point remains that the Patriots and Colts are contenders every year because they have stars at the most important position.

Teams like Baltimore and Tampa Bay were one year wonders because of their lack at that position.

Trying to win consistently without a stud qb is a formula for disappointment... yet the Chiefs under Carl Peterson have never made a commitment to develop one.

They brought in old Joe Montana for one last shot and they got what playoff success they've had. But until they get someone to man that position who's not a space-filler, they're not going to be strong contenders.

[orange]

The point remains that the Patriots and Colts are contenders every year because they have stars at the most important position.

Teams like Baltimore and Tampa Bay were one year wonders because of their lack at that position.

Trying to win consistently without a stud qb is a formula for disappointment... yet the Chiefs under Carl Peterson have never made a commitment to develop one.

They brought in old Joe Montana for one last shot and they got what playoff success they've had. But until they get someone to man that position who's not a space-filler, they're not going to be strong contenders.


And I'll add that Trent Green was a valiant effort. At least he brought hope to the franchise; a shame he was wasted on teams with abysmal defenses.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

The point remains that the Patriots and Colts are contenders every year because they have stars at the most important position.

Teams like Baltimore and Tampa Bay were one year wonders because of their lack at that position.

Trying to win consistently without a stud qb is a formula for disappointment... yet the Chiefs under Carl Peterson have never made a commitment to develop one.

They brought in old Joe Montana for one last shot and they got what playoff success they've had. But until they get someone to man that position who's not a space-filler, they're not going to be strong contenders.

I'd love to have a stud QB, but they are the rarest of all commodities. There are three in this league at present, if you count the playoff winless Carson Palmer.

[ChiefsCountry]

I guess Kosar was just better than all those other Chiefs qbs.

Really you think? I would have sworn that Steve DeBerg, Steve Bono, and Elvis Grbac were better. :p

[Mecca]

Meh... I gave you a hard time... but it's about time somebody had some positivity.

This is not a bad team. It's not great, but it's not bad either. We'll have a winning record at Arrowhead... we always do.

I think it's a pretty bad team......when watching other games around the league we don't stack up well with anyone other than the other bad teams.

[L.A. Chieffan]

And I'll add that Trent Green was a valiant effort. At least he brought hope to the franchise; a shame he was wasted on teams with abysmal defenses.
What's your point? That Carl Peterson is an idiot? That you need a good QB? That our D sucked under Dick?
WOW, you're so perceptive, NOBODY has ever brought these issues to light here before. Do you get paid for your expert analysis or do you just accept shots in the face from other Donk fans as reimbursement?

[orange]

I'd love to have a stud QB, but they are the rarest of all commodities. There are three in this league at present, if you count the playoff winless Carson Palmer.

There are young guys in San Francisco, San Diego, Dallas, and, yes, Denver, who at least have a good shot at becoming one.

No team will ever get a stud QB by settling for a known mediocrity.

[Hammock Parties]

I think it's a pretty bad team......when watching other games around the league we don't stack up well with anyone other than the other bad teams.

WTF?

You do realize we just went into Chicago and barely lost, right?

Average margin of victory for the Bears last year in home games was over 20 points.

[orange]

What's your point? That Carl Peterson is an idiot? That you need a good QB? That our D sucked under Dick?
WOW, you're so perceptive, NOBODY has ever brought these issues to light here before. Do you get paid for your expert analysis or do you just accept shots in the face from other Donk fans as reimbursement?

The thread is titled "What's the deal... some thoughts on the team."

As in, why can't the Chiefs get over the hump.

My point is pretty simple, I'd think. "The Chiefs can't get over the hump... and WON'T get over the hump... until they get a stud qb."



Whether it's Carl Peterson in charge or anyone else.

[Brock]

Lots of things get changed by bitching about them on the internet, don't they?

[ChiefsCountry]

My point is pretty simple, I'd think. "The Chiefs can't get over the hump... and WON'T get over the hump... until they get a stud qb."

I think most agree with that, trouble is the Chiefs have not sucked enough to get that elite qb in the draft.

[Mecca]

WTF?

You do realize we just went into Chicago and barely lost, right?

Average margin of victory for the Bears last year in home games was over 20 points.

I'm impressed by barely losing in a game that Rex Grossman was his awful self in....Each team got some breaks it could have been 20-17 it also could have been 31-10...

So I try to look at it both ways.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

There are young guys in San Francisco, San Diego, Dallas, and, yes, Denver, who at least have a good shot at becoming one.

No team will ever get a stud QB by settling for a known mediocrity.
Smith, Rivers, Romo, or Cutler would do well just to be as good as
Marc Bulger, Drew Brees, and McNabb.

The one guy you could have made a case for joining the elite group of QBs, Leinart, was conveniently left out.

[orange]

Smith, Rivers, Romo, or Cutler would do well just to be as good as
Marc Bulger, Drew Brees, and McNabb.

The one guy you could have made a case for joining the elite group of QBs, Leinart, was conveniently left out.

Not conveniently, deliberately. I thought about him, but it gets back to him being a Cardinal, the kiss of death for many good football players.

[Hammock Parties]

I'm impressed by barely losing in a game that Rex Grossman was his awful self in....Each team got some breaks it could have been 20-17 it also could have been 31-10...

So I try to look at it both ways.

Whatever.

We went in there and competed with a Super Bowl team.

I'm sure you thought we were going to lose by 40 before the game started.

[Mecca]

Yes it must really suck to have 2 awesome receivers a nice young TE and some coaches that know about Oline and young QB's what a bad spot Leinart is in.

[KcMizzou]

Lots of things get changed by bitching about them on the internet, don't they?Eh, not really.

You have a good point, but it's pretty much all we do here.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Not conveniently, deliberately. I thought about him, but it gets back to him being a Cardinal, the kiss of death for many good football players.

If you think that Philip Rivers is going to be a better quarterback than Matt Leinart, you need serious help.

[Mecca]

Whatever.

We went in there and competed with a Super Bowl team.

I'm sure you thought we were going to lose by 40 before the game started.

If Grossman had been the good Grossman it was possible....some of the teams on the schedule are going to totally roast us..

I think Green Bay is going to kill us, honestly.

[orange]

Yes it must really suck to have 2 awesome receivers a nice young TE and some coaches that know about Oline and young QB's what a bad spot Leinart is in.


Excuse me, please tell me about the Cardinals' bitchin' playoff history. I'm afraid I don't recall, well, ANY really.

[Hammock Parties]

If Grossman had been the good Grossman it was possible....some of the teams on the schedule are going to totally roast us..

I think Green Bay is going to kill us, honestly.

You do realize Bears fans are sitting around saying "damn, if Larry Johnson had been his normal self we could have lost the game..."

[L.A. Chieffan]

Whatever.

We went in there and competed with a Super Bowl team.

I'm sure you thought we were going to lose by 40 before the game started.
Uhhh...IIRC, you did.

[Hammock Parties]

Uhhh...IIRC, you did.

Yep. And we didn't. The Chiefs showed me something...

[Logical]

They played in the AFC Championship game two years ago, with Jake Plummer.

That's farther than Marty ever got with any team* not quarterbacked by someone named Montana, right?

*out of at least four, to my recollection

Look you picked the wrong person to defend Marty, I won't I just think your overestimation of Shanahan needed to be challenged, he has won no championships without a premier QB.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Excuse me, please tell me about the Cardinals' bitchin' playoff history. I'm afraid I don't recall, well, ANY really.

15 years ago, a certain franchise was so listless that it was all but packed for St. Louis.

Now, those same f*cks have three Super Bowl rings and 4 appearances since.

Things change.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Look you picked the wrong person to defend Marty, I won't I just think your overestimation of Shanahan needed to be challenged, he has won no championships without a premier QB, 2000 yard rusher and elite defense.


FYP :D

[orange]

Look you picked the wrong person to defend Marty, I won't I just think your overestimation of Shanahan needed to be challenged, he has won no championships without a premier QB.

Not saying he has. I simply meant that he's always in the playoffs or knocking at the door*, despite lack of consistency at QB. He actually got good years out of Plummer and Griese, players with dramatic limitations.

Not good enough to work miracles, however.


*I also included Cowher in that original statement, IIRC.

[ChiefaRoo]

What's wrong with Kuharich?

Kuharich was the drafting guru GM who built the early 1990's Saints. You know the team that had never been to a playoff game despite having top draft positions year in and year out.

[ChiefsCountry]

15 years ago, a certain franchise was so listless that it was all but packed for St. Louis.

Now, those same f*cks have three Super Bowl rings and 4 appearances since.

Things change.

Differnece - Bidwell isnt going to turn into Bob Kraft.

[orange]

FYP :D

Did I miss something? Did TD rush for 2000 yds TWICE?? Damn, put him in the Hall of Fame right now!

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Did I miss something? Did TD rush for 2000 yds TWICE?? Damn, put him in the Hall of Fame right now!

OJ didn't have to kill Ron Goldman to be considered a murderer after he'd already hacked his wife's head off

[dirk digler]

Who supports the franchise??

How does Clark pay his players??

Who buys the products, that advertisers promote, that leads to fat television contracts??

Who spends hours of their lives that they don't have to following and dedicating their time to a football team.

Look, most people don't really choose what football team they want to root for, and the ones who do are usually fairweather fans.

Demanding excellence does not mean that we are demanding that the team win the bowl every year. But if we are going to continue to invest our time and money, we should at least be treated to a concerted attempt by our team to attempt to win a Super Bowl, rather than worry about the profit margins, and keeping asses in the seats.

THE CHIEFS OWE US EVERYTHING...



Arrowhead was a f*cking ghostown in the 1980's. Kauffman outdrew it. The Chiefs don't have a homefield advantage without us, and all those years of narrow playoff births become playoff misses.

For someone who owns his own business, I find it astounding that you don't realize that a businessman's ultimate responsibility is to his customers, and when things get in the way of that, things fall apart.

Amen brother

:clap:

[orange]

OJ didn't have to kill Ron Goldman to be considered a murderer after he'd already hacked his wife's head off


And the Broncos won a Super Bowl without anyone who was a 2000 yard rusher. Right?

You want to get that shovel back for yourself? At least I admitted I was wrong on the Kosar thing.

[dirk digler]

WTF?

You do realize we just went into Chicago and barely lost, right?

Average margin of victory for the Bears last year in home games was over 20 points.

We were lucky they have possibly the worst starting QB in the NFL.

If it wasn't for his dumbassary the game wouldn't have been close.

The Bears will never win anything with that hack as a QB.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

And the Broncos won a Super Bowl without anyone who was a 2000 yard rusher. Right?

You want to get that shovel back for yourself? At least I admitted I was wrong on the Kosar thing.

Nope, they sure didn't.

They never won one without TD, who the last time I checked, was in fact a 2000 yard rusher.

Show me where I said they had a 2000 yard rusher *every season* and I'll let you stare at my asshole as it pisses Natural Light and intestinal lining on you.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

If a guy does something, he's capable of doing it.

If Jordan wins 6 Finals MVPs and leads the NBA in all-time scoring average, it makes it all the more amazing that Dean Smith held him under 20.

You can't just say, "Oh well, that guy at the time only averaged 18 PPG"....that was still Michael f*cking Jordan.

[boogblaster]

No fighting we suck but we're on a comeback ....

[RedThat]

Ok I'll make a thread for this because well I'm gonna throw a lot of shit out here because I've been thinking about this.

Ok firstly it's pretty obvious what the Chiefs are trying to do here. With their typical status quo of winning their 7 games and giving the illusion of competing. It obviously isn't going to work there because they banked on a few things happening, like Huard playing like last year, that obviously won't.

So here's my thing, why do people support this crap? You support just competing, really why? We should demand and strive to be a top organization on the field like the Pats or Colts that compete for a Bowl year in and year out.

Instead we are fed this same crap year in and year out to keep buying tickets and filling up Carls pocket while he puts inferior teams on the field that we know have no chance of winning anything. Then we have fans who actually back this up and act like it is a good thing. Just getting in the playoffs isn't good enough, we knew before last years playoffs even started we had no chance to win the Bowl.

Or how about the pure deflection of "well we aren't any worse off than last year" really you wanna be like last year? Just making the playoffs isn't successful and should be viewed as such. It's as if some take some sort of success in trying not to be a complete bottom feeder and that's good enough.

Or "Damn it we should be 26 instead of 32 in the power ranking we aren't that bad" really who gives a ****? Either way the team isn't good and will not be winning anything.

Personally I think this organization and some of the people who support it need a wakeup call. There needs to be major change, I hope they go 0-16 to get Carl, Herm and all of those dipshits out of here. Now someone will call me a shitty fan for wanting the team to lose but guess what, I don't care. It's for the best of the future of the team..

I think sitting around swallowing everything the team feeds you hook line and sinker and blindly supporting a team makes you a shitty ****in fan. We all follow this team we have every right to bitch when they do stupid shit or don't do what they should. Right now the Chiefs deserved to be bashed to every degree possible. Just because I and some other fans believe that while others don't doesn't make one group a better fan than others we just have different views on that.

But at the same time I don't ever play the card that gets played on us numerous times like "you aren't a fan of this team **** you" really I'm not? I don't fire back with well "what are you a dipshit you blindly support an organization that is doing nothing but taking your money and being inferior".

This team has earned every bit if bashing and media smearing they get, they haven't won anything since I was born. They've done a hell of a job at deflecting that into making people think they are this great organization when they aren't.

All in all this team needs a making ****ing enema and if going 0-16 will get that done then I'm all for it. This team needs to get a real direction and a real identity because at this time and for a long time that hasn't existed.

We as fans should demand excellence from this team not the mediocrity they strive for each and every year.

Well, after reading your post Mecca, I have to say I really enjoyed it.
I am in support of most of what you said, and I totally understand what you mean.

I feel your frustration brother. Let it out man. Let it out. But, be very careful about what you say. Because their may be some people around who will not appreciate certain comments that you have made. And the comment I am referring to is this one, I think sitting around swallowing everything the team feeds you hook line and sinker and blindly supporting a team makes you a shitty ****in fan.

This is the one part of your post where I really think you should of kept that to yourself. No offense, but that really wasn't an appropriate thing to say. You see there are people who view this team a certain way, and of course others are different. but whatever a certain fans point of view may be about the team, or opinion whatever, may be different than yours than thats fine. Let it be. Its way beyond your control anyway.

I strongly feel that their are certain fans that want to have a good time watching the games at arrowhead there is nothing wrong with that. That is there view. Let it be. It part of the reason why they watch football, to be entertained. That part you must understand. Of course they're going to cheer for the Chiefs, and that's part of showing their love for the team. And some fans will do that year in and year out.

But on other hand, I think I understand what you want to happen. And I am on the same page as you are. I REALLY REALLY want this team to win a championship. And with the way this FO is running the show, sad to say, it won't happen. And possibly not for a very long time.

I think your vision of what you want to see happen with this franchise is VERY good. I am the same way, in a way I want to see us become really crappy. And I honestly think that will happen this year. I think the way Carl is running things will eventually catch up to him. Yes, this is the year I say we won't be mediocre anymore. We will be a bad team. possibly a 4-12 team.

I know certain people may say, what?? Are you crazy? you really want to see your team finish 4-12. Sad to say, YES I DO!! Because I am tired of this crap of mediocrity. It is getting us nowhere but the exact same crap. I agree with you, this franchise needs a wake up call. BUT, in order for that to happen, I think it will take possibly 2 or 3 4-12 seasons in order to see them start losing fanbase.

I want to see a change. We need the bad to happen. don't take it the wrong way people. Look at it as hope. The way management is running the show here, it the same crap over and over and over. It's no different then insanity? coincedence, same results.

A new direction is needed badly. but I think it's clear the Chiefs are a bad team. We're headed in the bad direction. But I view that as a positive. Management won't change there ways unless the BAD really happens. Mediocrity has happened on to many occasions to count. that does nothing but sell tickets. I am under the impression that management is taking of advantage of the fans, and not giving them what they want. Managements way of thinking needs to change, the only way that will happen is if they are hit with a BIG cold slap of reality. Again, 2 or 3 4-12 seasons and losing fanbase could possibly do it imo.

*The only way I see the Chiefs winning is IF CLARK REALLY WANTS TO WIN! so far he hasn't given me any indication that he wants to do that.

Unless, we are a laughing stock and his thoughts change, or he sells the team to some other owner who really really wants to build a championship contender. Then I might be convinced.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Unfortunately, even the most diehard fans who come to Arrowhead "to be entertained" will be bored to tears by Herm's shiny new Model T offense.

[Mecca]

I probably should have clarified what I meant when I said the shitty fan thing and buy into it. If you have season tickets and enjoy going to games by all means go, you not going to games is your call.

When I say that I mean the people who back the team 100% no matter what they do then say if we are negative or call it a stupid move aren't "real fans" and the team doesn't need us. Or we should **** off things like that, when the team does dumb things you should say it and not go into this blind support that they are right no matter what they do.

That was basically what I meant, I'm not busting on anyone for having season tickets.

[MadMax]

Well, after reading your post Mecca, I have to say I really enjoyed it.
I am in support of most of what you said, and I totally understand what you mean.

I feel your frustration brother. Let it out man. Let it out. But, be very careful about what you say. Because their may be some people around who will not appreciate certain comments that you have made. And the comment I am referring to is this one, I think sitting around swallowing everything the team feeds you hook line and sinker and blindly supporting a team makes you a shitty ****in fan.

This is the one part of your post where I really think you should of kept that to yourself. No offense, but that really wasn't an appropriate thing to say. You see there are people who view this team a certain way, and of course others are different. but whatever a certain fans point of view may be about the team, or opinion whatever, may be different than yours than thats fine. Let it be. Its way beyond your control anyway.

I strongly feel that their are certain fans that want to have a good time watching the games at arrowhead there is nothing wrong with that. That is there view. Let it be. It part of the reason why they watch football, to be entertained. That part you must understand. Of course they're going to cheer for the Chiefs, and that's part of showing their love for the team. And some fans will do that year in and year out.

But on other hand, I think I understand what you want to happen. And I am on the same page as you are. I REALLY REALLY want this team to win a championship. And with the way this FO is running the show, sad to say, it won't happen. And possibly not for a very long time.

I think your vision of what you want to see happen with this franchise is VERY good. I am the same way, in a way I want to see us become really crappy. And I honestly think that will happen this year. I think the way Carl is running things will eventually catch up to him. Yes, this is the year I say we won't be mediocre anymore. We will be a bad team. possibly a 4-12 team.

I know certain people may say, what?? Are you crazy? you really want to see your team finish 4-12. Sad to say, YES I DO!! Because I am tired of this crap of mediocrity. It is getting us nowhere but the exact same crap. I agree with you, this franchise needs a wake up call. BUT, in order for that to happen, I think it will take possibly 2 or 3 4-12 seasons in order to see them start losing fanbase.

I want to see a change. We need the bad to happen. don't take it the wrong way people. Look at it as hope. The way management is running the show here, it the same crap over and over and over. It's no different then insanity? coincedence, same results.

A new direction is needed badly. but I think it's clear the Chiefs are a bad team. We're headed in the bad direction. But I view that as a positive. Management won't change there ways unless the BAD really happens. Mediocrity has happened on to many occasions to count. that does nothing but sell tickets. I am under the impression that management is taking of advantage of the fans, and not giving them what they want. Managements way of thinking needs to change, the only way that will happen is if they are hit with a BIG cold slap of reality. Again, 2 or 3 4-12 seasons and losing fanbase could possibly do it imo.

*The only way I see the Chiefs winning is IF CLARK REALLY WANTS TO WIN! so far he hasn't given me any indication that he wants to do that.

Unless, we are a laughing stock and his thoughts change, or he sells the team to some other owner who really really wants to build a championship contender. Then I might be convinced.


OMG! You called out the Hunts rofl yep untill they do what's needed we are stuck with the same ol same ol....Pleas Hunt family either give a **** or sell the team...............

[stevieray]

Who supports the franchise??

How does Clark pay his players??

Who buys the products, that advertisers promote, that leads to fat television contracts??

Who spends hours of their lives that they don't have to following and dedicating their time to a football team.

Look, most people don't really choose what football team they want to root for, and the ones who do are usually fairweather fans.

Demanding excellence does not mean that we are demanding that the team win the bowl every year. But if we are going to continue to invest our time and money, we should at least be treated to a concerted attempt by our team to attempt to win a Super Bowl, rather than worry about the profit margins, and keeping asses in the seats.

THE CHIEFS OWE US EVERYTHING...

Arrowhead was a f*cking ghostown in the 1980's. Kauffman outdrew it. The Chiefs don't have a homefield advantage without us, and all those years of narrow playoff births become playoff misses.

For someone who owns his own business, I find it astounding that you don't realize that a businessman's ultimate responsibility is to his customers, and when things get in the way of that, things fall apart.

fans support the franchise. personal choice.


who buys the products? people, some who aren't even football fans..personal choice.

spends time and energy? personal choice.

most people don't choose their team...ROFL...try again...


profit margins? good luck with that worn out argument...

The Chiefs owe us everything?....HAHAHAHAHAHA...thanks for proving my point...

the games will go on whether the fans are there or not.

astounded? I know that when they pay me for my services, they don't demand something that isn't part of the business deal.

last time I checked, I'm paying to be entertained at a football game...I didn't see the part on the ticket that said this ticket is indicitive of the level of desire they have to win a SB.

[stevieray]

We were lucky they have possibly the worst starting QB in the NFL.

If it wasn't for his dumbassary the game wouldn't have been close.

The Bears will never win anything with that hack as a QB.


this method works good doesn't it?...we don't play well, others play crappy...it's a built in excuse to be a whiner.

[CupidStunt]

If you wanna be happy with mediocrity that is great

No one is HAPPY with it, you fukking moron. We just know what it is and deal with it accordingly. That is, aspiring for more but being fans nonetheless and doing our best to enjoy the game.

You, on the other hand, don't know how to do that, which is why you should fukk off and root for another team.

The vast majority of posters on this forum are unhappy with the state of the Chiefs. The vast majority of those posters, though, watch the Chiefs each week -- or do their best to listen to or follow the games -- and root for them to do well.

Quite simply, those that don't are morons and shouldn't call themselves Chiefs fans.

[Katie]

"Look, most people don't really choose what football team they want to root for, and the ones who do are usually fairweather fans."

I'm not sure exactly what you men by this, but I did chose my football team and I'm definitely not a "fair weather" fan...

[crazycoffey]

Ok, so how do we, as fans, change it?

You're in charge, Mecca.


bystanders and some active posters would like to know if this post has been addressed yet?

[King_Chief_Fan]

The vast majority of posters on this forum are unhappy with the state of the Chiefs. The vast majority of those posters, though, watch the Chiefs each week -- or do their best to listen to or follow the games -- and root for them to do well.

Quite simply, those that don't are morons and shouldn't call themselves Chiefs fans.

The king of fans has spoken.

How does your statement make you any more of a fan?

[KcMizzou]

The king of fans has spoken.
That's amusing, considering your user name.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

fans support the franchise. personal choice.


who buys the products? people, some who aren't even football fans..personal choice.

spends time and energy? personal choice.

most people don't choose their team...ROFL...try again...


profit margins? good luck with that worn out argument...

The Chiefs owe us everything?....HAHAHAHAHAHA...thanks for proving my point...

the games will go on whether the fans are there or not.

astounded? I know that when they pay me for my services, they don't demand something that isn't part of the business deal.

last time I checked, I'm paying to be entertained at a football game...I didn't see the part on the ticket that said this ticket is indicitive of the level of desire they have to win a SB.


Sometimes I feel sorry for you...I really do.

People also by movie tickets, it's a choice, it's a choice that comes with an expectation of receiving something in return. The same goes for any product that you buy.

Say I go into your store and buy a fridge (hypothetical). It breaks down 3 months later. What is your defense? "That was your choice?"

Shouldn't my purchase be backed up with a promise that the goods or services I'm paying for should meet certain standards of reliability and performance?

If you think that fans by tickets solely to be entertained you are deluding yourself. Fans buy tickets to be entertained, but also to win.

Ask how many Mizzou fans who went to the 2nd Round game against UCLA in '95 left feeling "entertained" as opposed to incredibly depressed. Fans go to games to watch their teams SUCCEED AND to be entertained.

If you went solely for entertainment then Arrowhead would have been no more or less full in the 80's than it is now. Funny how when the team starts to SUCCEED, attendance grows....I wonder why??

You know what else happens when that attendance grows and the team succeeds?? Profits for the franchise go up.

More people buy jerseys, watch it on TV, go to the games, it's all related.

How many Cleveland Browns jerseys do you think were sold last year in comparision to Colts jerseys??

When the DV Chiefs were the most entertaining team in the league, do you think their merchandise outpaced New England's??


No--why not?? Because ultimately, this is a service-based business contingent upon performance of the team to necessitate further patronage.

[RedThat]

Sometimes I feel sorry for you...I really do.

People also by movie tickets, it's a choice, it's a choice that comes with an expectation of receiving something in return. The same goes for any product that you buy.

Say I go into your store and buy a fridge (hypothetical). It breaks down 3 months later. What is your defense? "That was your choice?"

Shouldn't my purchase be backed up with a promise that the goods or services I'm paying for should meet certain standards of reliability and performance?

If you think that fans by tickets solely to be entertained you are deluding yourself. Fans buy tickets to be entertained, but also to win.

Ask how many Mizzou fans who went to the 2nd Round game against UCLA in '95 left feeling "entertained" as opposed to incredibly depressed. Fans go to games to watch their teams SUCCEED AND to be entertained.

If you went solely for entertainment then Arrowhead would have been no more or less full in the 80's than it is now. Funny how when the team starts to SUCCEED, attendance grows....I wonder why??

You know what else happens when that attendance grows and the team succeeds?? Profits for the franchise go up.

More people buy jerseys, watch it on TV, go to the games, it's all related.

How many Cleveland Browns jerseys do you think were sold last year in comparision to Colts jerseys??

When the DV Chiefs were the most entertaining team in the league, do you think their merchandise outpaced New England's??


No--why not?? Because ultimately, this is a service-based business contingent upon performance of the team to necessitate further patronage.

:clap:

[crazycoffey]

People also by movie tickets, it's a choice, it's a choice that comes with an expectation of receiving something in return....


Does it disappoint you this much if that movie doesn't win an Oscar?
How about if it doesn't even get an Oscar nomitation? Can you not enjoy a movie that doesn't win an award, even an MTV award?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Does it disappoint you this much if that movie doesn't win an Oscar?
How about if it doesn't even get an Oscar nomitation? Can you not enjoy a movie that doesn't win an award, even an MTV award?

If I paid 8 dollars to go see "Knocked Up" and instead got "Funny Farm" or "Caddieshack 2", I'd be pretty f*cking pissed off.

I didn't say that you had to win the bowl to excuse the purchase of a ticket, I said that you had the right to expect the best that the vendor/retailer has to offer for the price of admission, and the Carl Peterson-era Chiefs have been nothing other than a half-assed, dishonest effort.

[FringeNC]

You do realize Bears fans are sitting around saying "damn, if Larry Johnson had been his normal self we could have lost the game..."

What Larry had WAS his normal game when he faces 9, 10, 13 men in the box. Larry sucked because Herm doesn't understand the necessity of stretching the field.

[crazycoffey]

...and the Carl Peterson-era Chiefs have been nothing other than a half-assed, dishonest effort.

Do you honestly expect me to believe this? Do you really believe they purposely have given us a less than honest or honorable effort? Come on, now. I understand being frustrated, but the NFL is very much a league of parity and so many variables go into winning a superbowl.

I think the product has been solid every year, I wish more came from it as well, but to say the efforts of the owner and GM are half assed or dishonest is really not accurate.

[Dartgod]

If I paid 8 dollars to go see "Knocked Up" and instead got "Funny Farm" or "Caddieshack 2", I'd be pretty f*cking pissed off.
That's a pretty poor analogy. I've been paying for season tickets to the Chiefs for 18 years now and every game I've been to, the Chiefs took the field....as promised.

[RedThat]

fans support the franchise. personal choice.


who buys the products? people, some who aren't even football fans..personal choice.

spends time and energy? personal choice.

most people don't choose their team...ROFL...try again...


profit margins? good luck with that worn out argument...

The Chiefs owe us everything?....HAHAHAHAHAHA...thanks for proving my point...

the games will go on whether the fans are there or not.

astounded? I know that when they pay me for my services, they don't demand something that isn't part of the business deal.

last time I checked, I'm paying to be entertained at a football game...I didn't see the part on the ticket that said this ticket is indicitive of the level of desire they have to win a SB.

But the point is, as Hamas said we watch the games to be both entertained and to see our team win.

It's pretty deep meaning if you think of it?

There are certain fans that are upset because they are being taken advantage of. We want to see our Chiefs win a SB, we are constantly paying these guys revenue and they are not rewarding us. That is the point. We are getting ripped off and constantly disappointed. Are you in favor of supporting that crap?

It is not fair to say, quote, "personal choice" imo....It is about customer satisfaction in this case.

*Ownership deserves a a sour taste in their mouths as a result. That is a couple of 4-12, 3-13 seasons, and start losing fanbase.

If that what it takes to turn the ship forward, Im for it. Because it certainly isn't happening with mediocrity? What are we seeing, constant "mediocrity", and ticket prices going up all the time.

Same stuff over and over. It's insanity. Fans are bitter over that, including myself.

And guess what Carl Peterson still has a job here? What a coincedence.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Do you honestly expect me to believe this? Do you really believe they purposely have given us a less than honest or honorable effort? Come on, now. I understand being frustrated, but the NFL is very much a league of parity and so many variables go into winning a superbowl.

I think the product has been solid every year, I wish more came from it as well, but to say the efforts of the owner and GM are half assed or dishonest is really not accurate.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/furniture/in_depth/tennis/2002/wimbledon/legends/john_mcenroe.jpg

YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!


In all honesty, though, Carl's dual positions as GM and Pres are a conflict of interest. Seeing to the best economic interests of the team is not in concert with procuring the best talent for the team and taking the necessary risks that involves trying to win a Super Bowl in a league of parity.

[OnTheWarpath15]

People also by movie tickets, it's a choice, it's a choice that comes with an expectation of receiving something in return. The same goes for any product that you buy.

Say I go into your store and buy a fridge (hypothetical). It breaks down 3 months later. What is your defense? "That was your choice?"

Shouldn't my purchase be backed up with a promise that the goods or services I'm paying for should meet certain standards of reliability and performance?

No--why not?? Because ultimately, this is a service-based business contingent upon performance of the team to necessitate further patronage.

Just playing devils advocate here:

So you buy that fridge and it breaks down in 3 months.

Do you rush out and buy the same brand fridge? Maybe you'll give them a second chance.

But you're not gonna give them 18 chances.

You're not gonna keep buying a shitty fridge in the hopes that the company starts making better quality merchandise. You're gonna move on.

What I'm taking from Stevie's posts is that as a consumer (fan) we DO have a choice. No one is forcing you to keep buying that shitty fridge. The decision is yours, and yours alone.

I don't think the arguments made in this thread apply evenly to everyone.

Everyone here sacrifices something different to be a fan of this team.

[Dartgod]

I don't think the arguments made in this thread apply evenly to everyone.

Everyone here sacrifices something different to be a fan of this team.
This is the most accurate statement I've read on this site in some time. Everybody does have their own definition and expectations of what makes a successful season. However, I'm getting tired of so many people here implying that I'm some kind of moron for continuing to buy season tickets year after year.

[MahiMike]

HELL YEAH! YOU GET 'EM MECCA!!!

This post makes me wanna go out and grab a torch and shotgun and run thru the streets w/the masses of other disgruntled fans!

This is a sign that KC is FINALLY coming around. This is the 1st step in our 12 step recovery plan - admitting we have a problem.

I too have been cheering for 0-16. It's the only way we can ever truly rid this team of the leftovers from numerous coaching staffs. To quote the Joker, "this team needs an enema." Hey, this goes hand-in-hand w/the juicer thread. I say we send Clark Hunt a few dozen Jack Lalane juicers...

[crazycoffey]

In all honesty, though, Carl's dual positions as GM and Pres are a conflict of interest. Seeing to the best economic interests of the team is not in concert with procuring the best talent for the team and taking the necessary risks that involves trying to win a Super Bowl in a league of parity.


I can understand that thought process, but either Carl's doing a good job in the eyes of his employer or he had some darn good dirt on 'ol Lamar. I've enjoyed every season of his tenure, thought we had good choices and not so good choices, thought we fielded good teams and had chances of doing better than we did and could have lost a few games that we won. Every single year, this happens. I have enjoyment as my primary factor to watch, winning - I would love for more wins, but they aren't guaranteed and if they were, the enjoyment would go down. It sucks that we haven't done better, but we've done very well, and I'm still a fan.

I knew last week we had a chance to win if things went our way, and a few times I thought they would. But I enjoyed the game, frustration and all, I would rather hope for a win and be wrong than expect a loss and be right.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Just playing devils advocate here:

So you buy that fridge and it breaks down in 3 months.

Do you rush out and buy the same brand fridge? Maybe you'll give them a second chance.

But you're not gonna give them 18 chances.

You're not gonna keep buying a shitty fridge in the hopes that the company starts making better quality merchandise. You're gonna move on.

What I'm taking from Stevie's posts is that as a consumer (fan) we DO have a choice. No one is forcing you to keep buying that shitty fridge. The decision is yours, and yours alone.

I don't think the arguments made in this thread apply evenly to everyone.

Everyone here sacrifices something different to be a fan of this team.


Yeah, but most people who buy an LG fridge don't have intense, seething hatred bred into them for Frigidaire, or any other manufacturer of fridges.

Being a fan is a 'choice' to pick ONE team, and support them over all other teams. I guess you could be a sports bigamist and say "oh I like the Red Sox and the Yankees evenly" or "I'll think I'll follow the Jags this year," but sports is almost never like that.

I think you'll find that most people became fans of their teams in their formative years before they really had any critical thinking skills. They just accepted it.

Our teams are more like family members than they are disposable products or people.

How many people on this board shed a tear the last time their TV popped a picture tube? What if I asked the same question about Derrick Thomas?


What's the old BB joke about the Chiefs being a crackwhore daughter?? That's what it's like to be a fan of this franchise.

[OnTheWarpath15]

This is the most accurate statement I've read on this site in some time. Everybody does have their own definition and expectations of what makes a successful season. However, I'm getting tired of so many people here implying that I'm some kind of moron for continuing to buy season tickets year after year.


Thanks, DG.

I have season tickets as well, and at the end of each season I understand that there is a risk involved in renewing my tickets.

The team could suck, a star player could be injured, etc. Any number of factors effect the overall performance of the team.

I want and expect the team to win. If they don't meet my expectations, then it's my responsibility to make the decision to renew again or walk away.

[Baby Lee]

Yeah, but most people who buy an LG fridge don't have intense, seething hatred bred into them for Frigidaire, or any other manufacturer of fridges.

Being a fan is a 'choice' to pick ONE team, and support them over all other teams. I guess you could be a sports bigamist and say "oh I like the Red Sox and the Yankees evenly" or "I'll think I'll follow the Jags this year," but sports is almost never like that.

I think you'll find that most people became fans of their teams in their formative years before they really had any critical thinking skills. They just accepted it.

Our teams are more like family members than they are disposable products or people.

How many people on this board shed a tear the last time their TV popped a picture tube? What if I asked the same question about Derrick Thomas?


What's the old BB joke about the Chiefs being a crackwhore daughter?? That's what it's like to be a fan of this franchise.
Stop being intellectually dishonest and root for the objectively best team in each league. ;)

Oh, and DT popped a picture tube?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yeah, but most people who buy an LG fridge don't have intense, seething hatred bred into them for Frigidaire, or any other manufacturer of fridges.

Being a fan is a 'choice' to pick ONE team, and support them over all other teams. I guess you could be a sports bigamist and say "oh I like the Red Sox and the Yankees evenly" or "I'll think I'll follow the Jags this year," but sports is almost never like that.

I think you'll find that most people became fans of their teams in their formative years before they really had any critical thinking skills. They just accepted it.

Our teams are more like family members than they are disposable products or people.

How many people on this board shed a tear the last time their TV popped a picture tube? What if I asked the same question about Derrick Thomas?


What's the old BB joke about the Chiefs being a crackwhore daughter?? That's what it's like to be a fan of this franchise.

I agree, and that is the #1 reason why fans keep coming back year after year.

But again, it still comes back to choice, IMO.

There are people here that bitch and moan about the state of the franchise, year after year. They are NEVER happy. They criticize those of us who support the franchise.

Then what do they do on Sunday?

Support the franchise. They buy a t-shirt. Watch on TV. Attend a game in person.

It's beyond hypocritical.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Stop being intellectually dishonest and root for the objectively best team in each league. ;)

Oh, and DT popped a picture tube?

If you root for the objectively best God, we've got a deal.

Picture tubes, pulmonary emboli, what's the difference :shrug:

I *can* however, prove the Chiefs exist, even if there are times when I'd rather believe they didn't.

[tooge]

Please quit rooting for them. Turn in your season tickets. Please. I need two more by mine to include my kids. I just so happen to enjoy the entire gameday experience. From the ride to the stadium listening to the radio and getting pumped, to the first beer at the tailgate, to the walk into Arrowhead. Then, the game. Yeah, losing blows. But winning is great. The Pats and Colts endured 15 years of crappy teams to get where they are. We have had competetive teams for the past 18 years. Fun teams to watch. Yeah I want a superbowl. But I enjoy the games too much to just quit going and find something else to do on sundays. "to each his own", like I said, please give up those season tickets, I want em

[CupidStunt]

The king of fans has spoken.

How does your statement make you any more of a fan?

Let me see. Fan A watches the team and actually wants them to win. Fan B watches from time to time and, from the impression he gives, doesn't want them to win.

Whose the actual FAN here?

Make no mistake about it: I, like many others in my position, want things to change in a big way. I want the Super Bowl or the higher draft pick as opposed to a mediocre year, as I've made clear many times.

Still, when I see something positive I ENJOY it. When I see a team weaker than us upcoming, I say we're gonna beat 'em. And if that happens, I'm glad. If it doesn't, I'm almost certainly pissed off about it.

Keep piddling around the point, which is that almost everyone on this forum shows a great deal of emotion when the Chiefs play. You can see that in reading the threads. Even "negative" guys like Logical actually seem pissed off/upset if the Chiefs get a bad refs call against them.

Someone like Mecca? You'll be lucky to hear anything but "the Chiefs deserve a bad call. They're so awful, they need to be like the Colts or Patriots".

[Molitoth]

The Pats and Colts "compete for a Bowl year in and year out" because they have deluxe quarterbacks.

The Colts got theirs by really, really sucking and getting lucky that a great one became available on their year.

The Patriots got lucky in the sixth round with a guy who no one - not even them - really wanted.

When you have one of those quarterbacks, you can build a winner around him. Look at Philadelphia when McNabb was good (healthy). A team without a legitimate running game and still they were in the championship round year after year.

The number of teams that are good year in and year out without a special quarterback are few and far between. Only Denver and Pittsburgh come to mind off the top of my head... and the common denominator there is coaching.

Chiefs -> No top QB. No top coach. No realistic championship aspirations. Past, present, ... and future?

I will second this.

[crazycoffey]

Even "negative" guys like Logical actually seem pissed off/upset if the Chiefs get a bad refs call against them.

Someone like Mecca? You'll be lucky to hear anything but "the Chiefs deserve a bad call. They're so awful, they need to be like the Colts or Patriots".


This is exactly why, I can disagree and still have respect for only one of these two mentioned posters.

[Rasputin]

Joe "Freaking" Montana could not win us a Super Bowl. What the hell makes anybody think that an 11 year backup QB could win it for us?

I've been waiting for us to get a QB from the draft that we can call our own. Instead of getting a QB that is basically at the tail end or discarded from the other team, short term fix, nothing to build upon.

I would love to be a season ticket holder so I can cheer and boo if I so feel, I will support my team :arrow: I would go to every game if I could. I understand why some fans would chose not too, it is difficult to watch our team lose.

The problem we have now is that it is Nobodys fault that we are 0-2. Not the coaches fault not the QBs fault, not the O cordinaters fault not the Defense fault not my fault. MR. Nobodys Fault. It sure wasn't Huards fault that Sammie Parker was covered in the end zone. It wasn't the O cordinaters fault that the players didn't exicute the play. It wasn't the kickers fault that it was blocked, it wasn't MBs fault the ball slipped out of his grasp. It wasn't Anybodys fault but it was Nobodys fault.

I'm tired of the excuses from especially the coach. I'm tired of hearing that well this guy is a young player and the O cordinater is in his second year so they make mistakes they will grow from them. Yet he won't start Croyle. BS. This is not a year of transision(sp) DAMN IT!!!
I want to watch this team grow with Croyle as QB, see what happens.

[Baby Lee]

I *can* however, prove the Chiefs exist, even if there are times when I'd rather believe they didn't.
But you *can't* prove they'll ever reward your rooting interest. ;)

[Baby Lee]

Joe "Freaking" Montana could not win us a Super Bowl. What the hell makes anybody think that an 11 year backup QB could win it for us?

I've been waiting for us to get a QB from the draft that we can call our own. Instead of getting a QB that is basically at the tail end or discarded from the other team, short term fix, nothing to build upon.

I would love to be a season ticket holder so I can cheer and boo if I so feel, I will support my team :arrow: I would go to every game if I could. I understand why some fans would chose not too, it is difficult to watch our team lose.

The problem we have now is that it is Nobodys fault that we are 0-2. Not the coaches fault not the QBs fault, not the O cordinaters fault not the Defense fault not my fault. MR. Nobodys Fault. It sure wasn't Huards fault that Sammie Parker was covered in the end zone. It wasn't the O cordinaters fault that the players didn't exicute the play. It wasn't the kickers fault that it was blocked, it wasn't MBs fault the ball slipped out of his grasp. It wasn't Anybodys fault but it was Nobodys fault.

I'm tired of the excuses from especially the coach. I'm tired of hearing that well this guy is a young player and the O cordinater is in his second year so they make mistakes they will grow from them. Yet he won't start Croyle. BS. This is not a year of transision(sp) DAMN IT!!!
I want to watch this team grow with Croyle as QB, see what happens.
Whose fault is your spelling woes? :D

[FAX]

Reading this thread is like attending fight club.

Personally, I look at it this way. I've always been a Chiefs fan and I'll always be a Chiefs fan. I just feel a little better about it when we're winning. I would feel even better about it if we were winning in post season. I don't know how I'd feel if we were building a dynasty ... it's beyond imagination.

By this point it's possible that a sense of discomfort with the team's performance is part of a Chiefs fan's DNA because we haven't won anything to speak of for over 35 years. There have been some good wins, sure. Even some remarkable ones. But during that time, we have never really competed with the league's elite.

So, a Chiefs fan either lives with frustration or justifies his allegiance or clings to an increasingly fragile thread of hope that next year will be better.

What we have to remember is that a lot of Chiefs fans have died in those 35 years. And, those are the guys we should feel sorry for. Not Carl or Herm or whoever the next doofus is to come along and break our hearts.

FAX

[Mecca]

I'm not getting pissed because in the grand scheme of things this year it doesn't matter.....a bad call isn't the difference in this team doing something or not.

I've also never said "they deserved a bad call" I'll just give my opinion on whether I think it was bad or not. Ever since I nailed that Geathers wouldn't get fined for hitting Green people have been on my case.

Really what do you want me to say? I'd do that with any team I like I try to look at it realistically you know. Instead of a "OMG my team just got screwed" even though it was a questionable call that leaned more to right than wrong.

Like when I was watching Arkansas/Alabama if the Chiefs had gotten that call Bama got I'd have absolutely said it was a very lucky bad call, if it had went against them it was a bad call. That is how I would view it no matter who was playing.

I do however enjoy that no matter what I say "I'm not a real fan and I should Fukk off" good spelling on that too by the way. I'm not a real fan because I invest all my time in following the team and all that man, I need more to play my real fan card. I will not pay money to go to the games because I'm not happy with anything about the organization so I don't support them that way any longer.

Sorry that I think the organization needs an entire cleansing and the only way to get it is for them to be a laughing stock.

[stevieray]

Sometimes I feel sorry for you...I really do.

People also by movie tickets, it's a choice, it's a choice that comes with an expectation of receiving something in return. The same goes for any product that you buy.

Say I go into your store and buy a fridge (hypothetical). It breaks down 3 months later. What is your defense? "That was your choice?"

Shouldn't my purchase be backed up with a promise that the goods or services I'm paying for should meet certain standards of reliability and performance?

If you think that fans by tickets solely to be entertained you are deluding yourself. Fans buy tickets to be entertained, but also to win.

Ask how many Mizzou fans who went to the 2nd Round game against UCLA in '95 left feeling "entertained" as opposed to incredibly depressed. Fans go to games to watch their teams SUCCEED AND to be entertained.

If you went solely for entertainment then Arrowhead would have been no more or less full in the 80's than it is now. Funny how when the team starts to SUCCEED, attendance grows....I wonder why??

You know what else happens when that attendance grows and the team succeeds?? Profits for the franchise go up.

More people buy jerseys, watch it on TV, go to the games, it's all related.

How many Cleveland Browns jerseys do you think were sold last year in comparision to Colts jerseys??

When the DV Chiefs were the most entertaining team in the league, do you think their merchandise outpaced New England's??


No--why not?? Because ultimately, this is a service-based business contingent upon performance of the team to necessitate further patronage.

ya, good luck getting your money back if you don't like the movie.

hahahahahahahahahaha..please show me where the ticket says you are guaranteed a win, or success. you are guaranteed entry to watch a football game in person, you can only hope they win.

Whose name is on those jerseys? the Chiefs' , or the NFL's?

spare me your faux empathy...

[Mecca]

I'm sorry this argument between Hamas and Stevie ends with a simple line, with no fans there is no league and there is no team.

There's a reason bad teams don't draw and because your stadium sells out when you suck it's not a credit to your organization but to your fans. Carl is lucky this market supports the Chiefs because in many others he'd have been treated to half empty stadiums for years and been fired...

No other team would have left Carl in charge this long to begin with...

[KurtCobain]

No other team would have left Carl in charge this long to begin with...

Any money craving organization who doesn't care about championships, but only money, would love to have Carl.

[stevieray]

I'm sorry this argument between Hamas and Stevie ends with a simple line, with no fans there is no league and there is no team.



if you don't have the league and you don't have the team, the fan doesn't exist.

do you really think that if the fans weren't there, the games wouldn't be played.

[Mecca]

As soon as the league wasn't profitable anymore....if it was just the 1 team then they'd move.

[FAX]

...Carl is lucky this market supports the Chiefs because in many others he'd have been treated to half empty stadiums for years and been fired...

Carl sees it differently, Mr. Mecca. From his perspective, he is the reason the games sell out and there's so much fan loyalty. And, to a large extent, he's right about that.

In many respects, the Chiefs organization is more like an amazingly effective public relations agency than a football franchise. He's done a phenomenal job of building and maintaining fan interest. Guys like Carl are preeminient snake oil salesmen. You buy a 10 dollar bottle of goo and actually feel better when you drink it.

Whenever there's bad news it's packaged as good news. When there's a change, it's always a change for the better. When the present sucks, the past was worse. Frankly, it's Orwellianly beautiful.

FAX

[Rasputin]

Whose fault is your spelling woes? :D

I'm a product of the public school system, not my fault ;) It wasn't my teachers fault I couln't spell either, no it was n00bodys fault

['Hamas' Jenkins]

if you don't have the league and you don't have the team, the fan doesn't exist.

do you really think that if the fans weren't there, the games wouldn't be played.

Do you even know what your point is here, or are you just rambling incoherently?

[stevieray]

Do you even know what your point is here, or are you just rambling incoherently?

You huff and you puff and you're still just an insecure blowhard.

[Logical]

if you don't have the league and you don't have the team, the fan doesn't exist.

do you really think that if the fans weren't there, the games wouldn't be played.

If all the stadiums were empty, no the games would not be played. So what was your point?

[crazycoffey]

If all the stadiums were empty, no the games would not be played. So what was your point?


that if the games weren't played the stadium couldn't get filled.