First Rounders Make The Difference!

[chiefsfan1963]

Sunday's game shows why drafting playmaker's (franchise players) is so vital! We need more of them! Derrick Johnson, Tony Gonzales and Dwayne Bowe are 1st rounders that enable the Chief's to win Sunday's game. Chief's were dominated for three quarters of the game until the above players in 4 plays turned the game around!

Next year's draft is so important for the future of this franchise. Having all our picks plus extras is HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Getting a Top 5,10, or at the very least Top 15 is so important in the later rounds. We will have a better chance of picking up more than 1 franchise player which gives us more opportunities to win games that we would otherwise lose during the season.

By the way how are our other draft picks doing?

[chief52]

a...Larry Johnson?

[beach tribe]

D Bowe 23 LJ 27 our 2 best players. IMO

[beach tribe]

Picking high dont mean shit.

[ChiefsCountry]

Well if the greatest coach in NFL history could actually drafted we actually might have had some more talent on this roster.

[chief52]

Picking high dont mean shit.


No it does not. Picking well is what means something. The players are there.

[RealSNR]

Who's the last top 15 pick that did anything for us? And John Tait doesn't count.

[beach tribe]

No it does not. Picking well is what means something. The players are there.
You are a wise man.

[ChiefsCountry]

Picking high dont mean shit.

Yep look at the Chiefs "stud" first rounders:

13 - TG
15 - DJ
20 - Hali
23 - Bowe
27 - LJ

No top 10 picks out of that bunch.

[beach tribe]

Who's the last top 15 pick that did anything for us? And John Tait doesn't count.
And so are you........a wise man

[Ebolapox]

You are a wise man.

like a miniature buddha.

[suds79]

You know I used to believe that drafting in the top 5 every now and then is necessary for building a future team set for multiple payoff runs.

See: Peyton Manning.

But then I realized that the Peyton Mannings of the world are once in every 10 years type of players.

No drafting high doesn't make all the difference.

Just drafting well makes all the difference.

See: Larry Johnson & Dwayne Bowe (who was the 3rd WR taken and is looking like the best right now)

[chiefsfan1963]

Yep look at the Chiefs "stud" first rounders:

13 - TG
15 - DJ
20 - Hali
23 - Bowe
27 - LJ

No top 10 picks out of that bunch.

I agree. But would a Top 10 or Top 5 help us in the later rounds where there is a better chance to pick up quality players not picked up in the latter half of the prior round?

I'm glad we have the above players the question is could we have picked up more playmakers to accompany the playmakers we picked up earlier?

[beach tribe]

You know I used to believe that drafting in the top 5 every now and then is necessary for building a future team set for multiple payoff runs.

See: Peyton Manning.

But then I realized that the Peyton Mannings of the world are once in every 10 years type of players.

No drafting high doesn't make all the difference.

Just drafting well makes all the difference.

See: Larry Johnson & Dwayne Bowe (who was the 3rd WR taken and is looking like the best right now)
Exactly what I had to tell Hammas.

He said "look at the Colts, and all their young players" I then promptly informed him that the Colts had only lost more than 7 games once (and it was 6) in the LAST 9 YEARS.

[milkman]

Who's the last top 15 pick that did anything for us? And John Tait doesn't count.

DT?

[Mr. Plow]

Picking high dont mean shit.

Picking 20ish every year gets you playoff loss......at least for the Chiefs it does anyway.

[Ebolapox]

You know I used to believe that drafting in the top 5 every now and then is necessary for building a future team set for multiple payoff runs.

See: Peyton Manning.

But then I realized that the Peyton Mannings of the world are once in every 10 years type of players.

No drafting high doesn't make all the difference.

Just drafting well makes all the difference.

See: Larry Johnson & Dwayne Bowe (who was the 3rd WR taken and is looking like the best right now)

I still believe drafting in the top five every now and then is vital to being a GREAT team. let's face it, teams don't get far without a superior QB... the best two teams in the nfl are the colts and pats--see also, their QBs...

manning, obviously, is a once in ten years player.

but brady is a once in 20 years pick (last happened in 1979: joe montana)

the odds of picking a franchise QB in the top five picks of the draft are higher than the later rounds. there are busts in the top five, but there are much more qbs who never play at all taken later in the draft.

don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating going nuts and trading all of our picks to get that franchise QB. I believe we have a guy with that sort of talent sitting on the bench in brodie croyle.

the sad thing is that the 'best 1-3 team in nfl HISTORY' was built through the top five picks. twice they held the top overall pick, twice they traded it away and 'drafted well,' drafting tomlinson, kaeding, rivers, merroidman, and a few other top-line starters. if they had better coaching, they blow almost every other team away.

thanks, norvel!

[beach tribe]

Picking 20ish every year gets you playoff loss......at least for the Chiefs it does anyway.

[milkman]

Picking 20ish every year gets you playoff loss......at least for the Chiefs it does anyway.

Picking players that suck ass with those picks, along with poor in game decisions gets you playoff losses.

[beach tribe]

Picking players that suck ass with those picks, along with poor in game decisions gets you playoff losses.
:clap:

[suds79]

I think that when talking about drafting top 5 and getting that all important franchise QB, it's still pretty much a crapshoot.

Just off the top of my head if I had to name the top QBs in the game right now... Guys who are good enough QBs to win a SB, I'd say....

1 - Manning (1st overall draft pick)
2 - Brady (7th rounder or something like that?)
3 - Favre
4 - Romo
5 - Not sure who's all tied for this spot.

The way it looks to me, you don't necessarily have to draft top 5 to get that franchise QB.

[Skip Towne]

Third round QB's are shitty [/Hootie]

[Mr. Plow]

Picking players that suck ass with those picks, along with poor in game decisions gets you playoff losses.

Exactly why I said "at least for the Chiefs it does anyway."

[chiefsfan1963]

What about picking Top 5 or Top 10 in the later rounds does that get you any advantages?

[beach tribe]

I think that when talking about drafting top 5 and getting that all important franchise QB, it's still pretty much a crapshoot.

Just off the top of my head if I had to name the top QBs in the game right now... Guys who are good enough QBs to win a SB, I'd say....

1 - Manning (1st overall draft pick)
2 - Brady (7th rounder or something like that?)
3 - Favre
4 - Romo
5 - Not sure who's all tied for this spot.

The way it looks to me, you don't necessarily have to draft top 5 to get that franchise QB.
Yea, and last year Farve looked worse tha huard, but thats not the point.

Give me the last 15 super bowl winning QBs and where they were drafted.

**** it Ill do it

Manning 1st
Big Ben 11th
Brady 6th round
Brady
BJ 9th rnd
Brady
Dilfer 1st rnd hardly counts though
Warner arena
Elway 1st pick
Elway
Farve 2nd rnd
Aikman1st
Young supplemental
Aikman
Aikman
Phil simms 7th pick
Mark Rypien 6th rnd

Out of the 11 qbs that have won a SB since 90........5 are top 10 picks, and one of those is Dilfer.

[Mr. Plow]

Just as comparison....and to show that the draft can be a crap shoot, here are the top 5 draft picks & the last 5 picks of the first round.

2000
1 (1) Cleveland Browns - Courtney Brown, DE Penn State
2 (2) Washington Redskins - LaVar Arrington, LB Penn State
3 (3) Washington Redskins - Chris Samuels, T Alabama
4 (4) Cincinnati Bengals - Peter Warrick, WR Florida State
5 (5) Baltimore Ravens - Jamal Lewis, RB Tennessee

27 (27) New York Jets - Anthony Becht, TE West Virginia
28 (28) Indianapolis Colts - Rob Morris, LB Brigham Young
29 (29) Jacksonille Jaguars - R.Jay Soward, WR USC
30 (30) Tennessee Titans - Keith Bulluck, LB Syracuse
31 (31) St. Louis Rams - Trung Canidate, RB Arizona


2001
1. Atlanta Falcons (from San Diego) - Michael Vick, QB Virginia Tech
2. Arizona Cardinals - Leonard Davis, OT Texas
3. Cleveland Browns - Gerard Warren, DT Florida
4. Cincinnati Bengals - Justin Smith, DE Missouri
5. San Diego Chargers (from Atlanta) - LaDainian Tomlinson, RB Texas Christian

27. Minnesota Vikings - Michael Bennett, RB Wisconsin
28. Oakland Raiders - Derrick Gibson, S Florida State
29. St. Louis Rams (from Tennessee) - Ryan Pickett, DE Ohio State
30. Indianapolis Colts (from New York Giants) - Reggie Wayne, WR Miami
31. Baltimore Ravens - Todd Heap, TE Arizona State


2002
1. Houston - David Carr, QB Fresno State
2. Carolina - Julius Peppers, DE North Carolina
3. Detroit - Joey Harrington, QB Oregon
4. Buffalo - Mike Williams, OT Texas
5. San Diego - Quentin Jammer, CB Texas

27. San Francisco - Mike Rumph, CB Miami (Fla)
28. Seattle (from Green Bay) - Jerramy Stevens, TE Washington
29. Chicago - Marc Colombo, OT Boston College
30. Pittsburgh - Kendall Simmons, OG Auburn
31. St. Louis - Robert Thomas, MLB UCLA
32. Washington (from New England) - Patrick Ramsey, QB Tulane


2003
1 Cincinnati - Carson Palmer, QB USC
2 Detroit - Charles Rogers, WR Michigan State
3 Houston - Andre Johnson, WR Miami (Fla.)
4 NY Jets - Dewayne Robertson, DT Kentucky
5 Dallas - Terence Newman, CB Kansas State

28 Tennessee - Andre Woolfolk, CB Oklahoma
29 Green Bay - Nick Barnett, OLB Oregon State
30 San Diego - Sammy Davis, CB Texas A&M
31 Oakland - Nnamdi Asomugha, CB California
32 Oakland - Tyler Brayton, DE Colorado


2004
1. San Diego - Eli Manning, QB Mississippi
2.Oakland - Robert Gallery, OT Iowa
3. Arizona - Larry Fitgerald, WR Pittsburgh
4. NY Giants - Philip Rivers, QB North Carolina State
5. Washington - Sean Taylor, S Miami (Fla)

28. Carolina (from Philadelphia thru San Francisco) - Chris Gamble, CB Ohio State
29. Atlanta (from Indianapolis) - Michael Jenkins, WR Ohio State
30. Detroit (from Kansas City) - Kevin Jones, RB Virginia Tech
31. San Francisco (from Carolina) - Rashaun Woods, WR Oklahoma State
32. New England - Ben Watson, TE Georgia

2005
1. San Francisco 49ers - Alex Smith*, QB Utah
2. Miami Dolphins - Ronnie Brown, RB Auburn
3.Cleveland Browns - Braylon Edwards, WR Michigan
4. Chicago Bears - Cedric Benson, RB Texas
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Carnell Williams, RB Auburn

28. San Diego Chargers - Luis Castillo, DT Northwestern
29. Indianapolis Colts - Marlin Jackson, CB Michigan
30. Pittsburgh Steelers - Heath Miller*, TE Virginia
31. Philadelphia Eagles - Mike Patterson, DT USC
32. New England Patriots - Logan Mankins, OG Fresno State


2006
1. Houston - Mario Williams, DE North Carolina State
2. New Orleans - Reggie Bush, RB USC
3. Tennessee - Vince Young, QB Texas
4. N.Y. Jets - D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT Virginia
5. Green Bay - A.J. Hawk, LB Ohio State

28. Jacksonville - Marcedes Lewis, TE UCLA
29. NY Jets (from Denver through Atlanta) - Nick Mangold, C Ohio State
30. Indianapolis - Joseph Addai, RB LSU
31. Seattle - Kelly Jennings, CB Miami (FL)
32. N.Y. Giants (from Pittsburgh) - Mathias Kiwanuka, DE Boston College

[chiefsfan1963]

Just as comparison....and to show that the draft can be a crap shoot, here are the top 5 draft picks & the last 5 picks of the first round.

2000
1 (1) Cleveland Browns - Courtney Brown, DE Penn State
2 (2) Washington Redskins - LaVar Arrington, LB Penn State
3 (3) Washington Redskins - Chris Samuels, T Alabama
4 (4) Cincinnati Bengals - Peter Warrick, WR Florida State
5 (5) Baltimore Ravens - Jamal Lewis, RB Tennessee

27 (27) New York Jets - Anthony Becht, TE West Virginia
28 (28) Indianapolis Colts - Rob Morris, LB Brigham Young
29 (29) Jacksonille Jaguars - R.Jay Soward, WR USC
30 (30) Tennessee Titans - Keith Bulluck, LB Syracuse
31 (31) St. Louis Rams - Trung Canidate, RB Arizona


2001
1. Atlanta Falcons (from San Diego) - Michael Vick, QB Virginia Tech
2. Arizona Cardinals - Leonard Davis, OT Texas
3. Cleveland Browns - Gerard Warren, DT Florida
4. Cincinnati Bengals - Justin Smith, DE Missouri
5. San Diego Chargers (from Atlanta) - LaDainian Tomlinson, RB Texas Christian

27. Minnesota Vikings - Michael Bennett, RB Wisconsin
28. Oakland Raiders - Derrick Gibson, S Florida State
29. St. Louis Rams (from Tennessee) - Ryan Pickett, DE Ohio State
30. Indianapolis Colts (from New York Giants) - Reggie Wayne, WR Miami
31. Baltimore Ravens - Todd Heap, TE Arizona State


2002
1. Houston - David Carr, QB Fresno State
2. Carolina - Julius Peppers, DE North Carolina
3. Detroit - Joey Harrington, QB Oregon
4. Buffalo - Mike Williams, OT Texas
5. San Diego - Quentin Jammer, CB Texas

27. San Francisco - Mike Rumph, CB Miami (Fla)
28. Seattle (from Green Bay) - Jerramy Stevens, TE Washington
29. Chicago - Marc Colombo, OT Boston College
30. Pittsburgh - Kendall Simmons, OG Auburn
31. St. Louis - Robert Thomas, MLB UCLA
32. Washington (from New England) - Patrick Ramsey, QB Tulane


2003
1 Cincinnati - Carson Palmer, QB USC
2 Detroit - Charles Rogers, WR Michigan State
3 Houston - Andre Johnson, WR Miami (Fla.)
4 NY Jets - Dewayne Robertson, DT Kentucky
5 Dallas - Terence Newman, CB Kansas State

28 Tennessee - Andre Woolfolk, CB Oklahoma
29 Green Bay - Nick Barnett, OLB Oregon State
30 San Diego - Sammy Davis, CB Texas A&M
31 Oakland - Nnamdi Asomugha, CB California
32 Oakland - Tyler Brayton, DE Colorado


2004
1. San Diego - Eli Manning, QB Mississippi
2.Oakland - Robert Gallery, OT Iowa
3. Arizona - Larry Fitgerald, WR Pittsburgh
4. NY Giants - Philip Rivers, QB North Carolina State
5. Washington - Sean Taylor, S Miami (Fla)

28. Carolina (from Philadelphia thru San Francisco) - Chris Gamble, CB Ohio State
29. Atlanta (from Indianapolis) - Michael Jenkins, WR Ohio State
30. Detroit (from Kansas City) - Kevin Jones, RB Virginia Tech
31. San Francisco (from Carolina) - Rashaun Woods, WR Oklahoma State
32. New England - Ben Watson, TE Georgia

2005
1. San Francisco 49ers - Alex Smith*, QB Utah
2. Miami Dolphins - Ronnie Brown, RB Auburn
3.Cleveland Browns - Braylon Edwards, WR Michigan
4. Chicago Bears - Cedric Benson, RB Texas
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Carnell Williams, RB Auburn

28. San Diego Chargers - Luis Castillo, DT Northwestern
29. Indianapolis Colts - Marlin Jackson, CB Michigan
30. Pittsburgh Steelers - Heath Miller*, TE Virginia
31. Philadelphia Eagles - Mike Patterson, DT USC
32. New England Patriots - Logan Mankins, OG Fresno State


2006
1. Houston - Mario Williams, DE North Carolina State
2. New Orleans - Reggie Bush, RB USC
3. Tennessee - Vince Young, QB Texas
4. N.Y. Jets - D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT Virginia
5. Green Bay - A.J. Hawk, LB Ohio State

28. Jacksonville - Marcedes Lewis, TE UCLA
29. NY Jets (from Denver through Atlanta) - Nick Mangold, C Ohio State
30. Indianapolis - Joseph Addai, RB LSU
31. Seattle - Kelly Jennings, CB Miami (FL)
32. N.Y. Giants (from Pittsburgh) - Mathias Kiwanuka, DE Boston College


How about Top 10? How about teams that pick in the Top 5 or Top 10 in the later rounds? Who do they get versus the teams in the latter half of the later rounds?

[ChiefsCountry]

Who's the last top 15 pick that did anything for us? And John Tait doesn't count.

There is this tight end we have, I cant think of his name though......

[beach tribe]

How about Top 10? How about teams that pick in the Top 5 or Top 10 in the later rounds? Who do they get versus the teams in the latter half of the later rounds?
How about........research.

[beach tribe]

Just as comparison....and to show that the draft can be a crap shoot, here are the top 5 draft picks & the last 5 picks of the first round.

2000
1 (1) Cleveland Browns - Courtney Brown, DE Penn State
2 (2) Washington Redskins - LaVar Arrington, LB Penn State
3 (3) Washington Redskins - Chris Samuels, T Alabama
4 (4) Cincinnati Bengals - Peter Warrick, WR Florida State
5 (5) Baltimore Ravens - Jamal Lewis, RB Tennessee

27 (27) New York Jets - Anthony Becht, TE West Virginia
28 (28) Indianapolis Colts - Rob Morris, LB Brigham Young
29 (29) Jacksonille Jaguars - R.Jay Soward, WR USC
30 (30) Tennessee Titans - Keith Bulluck, LB Syracuse
31 (31) St. Louis Rams - Trung Canidate, RB Arizona


2001
1. Atlanta Falcons (from San Diego) - Michael Vick, QB Virginia Tech
2. Arizona Cardinals - Leonard Davis, OT Texas
3. Cleveland Browns - Gerard Warren, DT Florida
4. Cincinnati Bengals - Justin Smith, DE Missouri
5. San Diego Chargers (from Atlanta) - LaDainian Tomlinson, RB Texas Christian

27. Minnesota Vikings - Michael Bennett, RB Wisconsin
28. Oakland Raiders - Derrick Gibson, S Florida State
29. St. Louis Rams (from Tennessee) - Ryan Pickett, DE Ohio State
30. Indianapolis Colts (from New York Giants) - Reggie Wayne, WR Miami
31. Baltimore Ravens - Todd Heap, TE Arizona State


2002
1. Houston - David Carr, QB Fresno State
2. Carolina - Julius Peppers, DE North Carolina
3. Detroit - Joey Harrington, QB Oregon
4. Buffalo - Mike Williams, OT Texas
5. San Diego - Quentin Jammer, CB Texas

27. San Francisco - Mike Rumph, CB Miami (Fla)
28. Seattle (from Green Bay) - Jerramy Stevens, TE Washington
29. Chicago - Marc Colombo, OT Boston College
30. Pittsburgh - Kendall Simmons, OG Auburn
31. St. Louis - Robert Thomas, MLB UCLA
32. Washington (from New England) - Patrick Ramsey, QB Tulane


2003
1 Cincinnati - Carson Palmer, QB USC
2 Detroit - Charles Rogers, WR Michigan State
3 Houston - Andre Johnson, WR Miami (Fla.)
4 NY Jets - Dewayne Robertson, DT Kentucky
5 Dallas - Terence Newman, CB Kansas State

28 Tennessee - Andre Woolfolk, CB Oklahoma
29 Green Bay - Nick Barnett, OLB Oregon State
30 San Diego - Sammy Davis, CB Texas A&M
31 Oakland - Nnamdi Asomugha, CB California
32 Oakland - Tyler Brayton, DE Colorado


2004
1. San Diego - Eli Manning, QB Mississippi
2.Oakland - Robert Gallery, OT Iowa
3. Arizona - Larry Fitgerald, WR Pittsburgh
4. NY Giants - Philip Rivers, QB North Carolina State
5. Washington - Sean Taylor, S Miami (Fla)

28. Carolina (from Philadelphia thru San Francisco) - Chris Gamble, CB Ohio State
29. Atlanta (from Indianapolis) - Michael Jenkins, WR Ohio State
30. Detroit (from Kansas City) - Kevin Jones, RB Virginia Tech
31. San Francisco (from Carolina) - Rashaun Woods, WR Oklahoma State
32. New England - Ben Watson, TE Georgia

2005
1. San Francisco 49ers - Alex Smith*, QB Utah
2. Miami Dolphins - Ronnie Brown, RB Auburn
3.Cleveland Browns - Braylon Edwards, WR Michigan
4. Chicago Bears - Cedric Benson, RB Texas
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Carnell Williams, RB Auburn

28. San Diego Chargers - Luis Castillo, DT Northwestern
29. Indianapolis Colts - Marlin Jackson, CB Michigan
30. Pittsburgh Steelers - Heath Miller*, TE Virginia
31. Philadelphia Eagles - Mike Patterson, DT USC
32. New England Patriots - Logan Mankins, OG Fresno State


2006
1. Houston - Mario Williams, DE North Carolina State
2. New Orleans - Reggie Bush, RB USC
3. Tennessee - Vince Young, QB Texas
4. N.Y. Jets - D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT Virginia
5. Green Bay - A.J. Hawk, LB Ohio State

28. Jacksonville - Marcedes Lewis, TE UCLA
29. NY Jets (from Denver through Atlanta) - Nick Mangold, C Ohio State
30. Indianapolis - Joseph Addai, RB LSU
31. Seattle - Kelly Jennings, CB Miami (FL)
32. N.Y. Giants (from Pittsburgh) - Mathias Kiwanuka, DE Boston College
Good post. My point exactly.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

People tend to forget that the lynchpin of the Patriots defense was a high first round pick.

[beach tribe]

People tend to forget that the lynchpin of the Patriots defense was a high first round pick.
And that their QB was a 6th

['Hamas' Jenkins]

And that their QB was a 6th

If you think you can build a team hoping to land Terrell Davises and Tom Bradys, then good f*cking luck.

You'd be better off putting all of your money on the 0 in Roulette two times in a row.

[beach tribe]

If you think you can build a team hoping to land Terrell Davises and Tom Bradys, then good f*cking luck.

You'd be better off putting all of your money on the 0 in Roulette two times in a row.
I like when the wheel lands on David Carr.

[BigRedChief]

We are still suffering because of the drafts of 2000-2002. Those 3 drafts yielded Greg Wesley and Dante Hall.

Because we whiffed on 3 high pick DT's(Sims, Freeman and Savili) we couldn't draft an OL even though we knew Shields and Roaf were on their last legs. So we had to gamble with 6th and 7th rounders OL picks. Which have also not worked out.

Also the FA pickups haven't filled any holes so we had to use picks to fill those bad choices.

But the last drafts since Herm got here have to be some of the best in the NFL. Maybe is just pot luck? Maybe Herm said get this guy and overruled King Carl's minions? Who knows?

[beach tribe]

We are still suffering because of the drafts of 2000-2002. Those 3 drafts yielded Greg Wesley and Dante Hall.

Because we whiffed on 3 high pick DT's(Sims, Freeman and Savili) we couldn't draft an OL even though we knew Shields and Roaf were on their last legs. So we had to gamble with 6th and 7th rounders OL picks. Which have also not worked out.

Also the FA pickups haven't filled any holes so we had to use picks to fill those bad choices.

But the last drafts since Herm got here have to be some of the best in the NFL. Maybe is just pot luck? Maybe Herm said get this guy and overruled King Carl's minions? Who knows?
Its who you pick, and whose diong the picking. Not what pick you have.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I like when the wheel lands on David Carr.

No one said that Houston had to pick David Carr. Charlie Casserley is a f*cking idiot.

They could have just as easily ended up with Julius Peppers, who would have made them far more competitive than Mr. hold on to the ball for 13 seconds.

Here are the five picks immediately after Sims' fat ass in the same draft:

Bryant McKinnie, Roy Williams (S), John Henderson, Levi Jones, and Dwight Freeney.

These are all top 11 guys. The Chiefs were in a position to really strike gold (save for Williams, I think he's overrated), and they missed....but you can't miss if you never have the shot to do it.

[beach tribe]

No one said that Houston had to pick David Carr. Charlie Casserley is a f*cking idiot.

They could have just as easily ended up with Julius Peppers, who would have made them far more competitive than Mr. hold on to the ball for 13 seconds.

Here are the five picks immediately after Sims' fat ass in the same draft:

Bryant McKinnie, Roy Williams (S), John Henderson, Levi Jones, and Dwight Freeney.

These are all top 11 guys. The Chiefs were in a position to really strike gold (save for Williams, I think he's overrated), and they missed....but you can't miss if you never have the shot to do it.
I wanted John Henderson so bad.

BUT! Everyone had Sims rated that high. Im telling man you just never know.

[Skip Towne]

Wouldn't you think a guy like DV would be aware that they are shitty talent evaluators? Why don't they hire a guy to do it for them?

[Ebolapox]

Yea, and last year Farve looked worse tha huard, but thats not the point.

Give me the last 15 super bowl winning QBs and where they were drafted.

**** it Ill do it

Manning 1st
Big Ben 11th
Brady 6th round
Brady
BJ 9th rnd
Brady
Dilfer 1st rnd hardly counts though
Warner arena
Elway 1st pick
Elway
Farve 2nd rnd
Aikman1st
Young supplemental
Aikman
Aikman
Phil simms 7th pick
Mark Rypien 6th rnd

Out of the 11 qbs that have won a SB since 90........5 are top 10 picks, and one of those is Dilfer.

I'll even submit that young was a surefire first round pick that went to the USFL-- so he pretty much qualifies as a 'first round' qb.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Sunday's game shows why drafting playmaker's (franchise players) is so vital! We need more of them! Derrick Johnson, Tony Gonzales and Dwayne Bowe are 1st rounders that enable the Chief's to win Sunday's game. Chief's were dominated for three quarters of the game until the above players in 4 plays turned the game around!

Next year's draft is so important for the future of this franchise. Having all our picks plus extras is HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Getting a Top 5,10, or at the very least Top 15 is so important in the later rounds. We will have a better chance of picking up more than 1 franchise player which gives us more opportunities to win games that we would otherwise lose during the season.

By the way how are our other draft picks doing?
So, you want us to tank games? Maybe we can draft the next Shuler, Leaf, Akili Smith, Marinovich, Ware, Klingler, McNown, or Jeff George!

[beach tribe]

I'll even submit that young was a surefire first round pick that went to the USFL-- so he pretty much qualifies as a 'first round' qb.
Top 10?

[beach tribe]

So, you want us to tank games? Maybe we can draft the next Shuler, Leaf, Akili Smith, Marinovich, Ware, Klingler, McNown, or Jeff George!
Thats exactly what hes been saying.

He hopes we lose.

[milkman]

We are still suffering because of the drafts of 2000-2002. Those 3 drafts yielded Greg Wesley and Dante Hall.

Because we whiffed on 3 high pick DT's(Sims, Freeman and Savili) we couldn't draft an OL even though we knew Shields and Roaf were on their last legs. So we had to gamble with 6th and 7th rounders OL picks. Which have also not worked out.

Also the FA pickups haven't filled any holes so we had to use picks to fill those bad choices.

But the last drafts since Herm got here have to be some of the best in the NFL. Maybe is just pot luck? Maybe Herm said get this guy and overruled King Carl's minions? Who knows?

Uhhh......King Carl's minions that he usually listens to on draft day are the HC and his coordinators.

[beach tribe]

Uhhh......King Carl's minions that he usually listens to on draft day are the HC and his coordinators.
Yup.

[Ebolapox]

Top 10?

Young signed a record 10-year, $40 million contract with the Los Angeles Express of the now-defunct United States Football League in 1984. He agreed to take his payment in the form of an annuity to help the fledgling team; he would receive $1 million every year for 40 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Young_(athlete)

another (not as reliable) source:

Steve Young was projected to be the number one pick in the 1984 NFL draft.
Steve opted, instead, to go with the new USFL (United States Football League) and signed to play with the L.A. Express. L.A. was closer to home (Provo, Utah), and he thought he would have the opportunity to start at the quarterback position right away-something that probably wouldn't happen in the NFL.

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/5649/history_young.html

[BigRedChief]

Uhhh......King Carl's minions that he usually listens to on draft day are the HC and his coordinators.
So what about the LJ pick? That was the DV's pick?

[tk13]

I feel confident enough in Herm's drafting ability that I don't think we need a top 5 pick to get somebody good in the 1st round.

[Ebolapox]

so basically, he was projected to go first overall, but got wooed by the biggest contract in sports history from college to the USFL... recall, NOBODY was getting those kinds of contracts in those days.

that would be like the arena league offering peyton manning 500 million right out of college (back in 1998)

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Its who you pick, and whose diong the picking. Not what pick you have.

Tommie Harris, John Henderson, Kevin Williams, Marcus Stroud.

4 of the top 5 D-Tackles in the game, all top fifteen picks, and Williams and Henderson were top 10. (and Jamal Williams was a supplemental choice)


Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Tom Brady

The top 3 QBs in the league. 1 was a sixth rounder. The other two were #1 overall.

LaDainian Tomlinson was #5 overall

Take a look at the top tackles in the game (or recent history)

Roaf was a top 10 pick
Walter Jones--6 overall
Orlando Pace--#1 overall
Jonathon Ogden--#4 overall
Willie Anderson--#10 overall
Chris Samuels--#2 Overall


Champ Bailey, the best corner alive, was #7 overall, Chris McAlister was 10th

Urlacher was drafted 9th



Look, no one is
saying that you only need a high pick, but in order to get a truly transcendent player, your odds are greatly improved if you have a high pick AND your team can scout and draft well.

[beach tribe]

So what about the LJ pick? That was the DV's pick?
No DV wanted defense.

[milkman]

So what about the LJ pick? That was the DV's pick?

No.

Carl overruled Dick on that pick.

Dick wanted Tyler Brayton.

But it's fairly rare that the King doesn't select the coach's choice.

[chief52]

Its who you pick, and whose diong the picking. Not what pick you have.

Exactly. In order to build a team you have to be able to pick well no matter what your selection number is. Hopefully it is not a top 10 or you are obviously doing something wrong in your drafting/scouting department.

[88TG88]

So what about the LJ pick? That was the DV's pick?
Didn't he want Boss Bailey ?

[beach tribe]

Tommie Harris, John Henderson, Kevin Williams, Marcus Stroud.

4 of the top 5 D-Tackles in the game, all top fifteen picks, and Williams and Henderson were top 10. (and Jamal Williams was a supplemental choice)


Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Tom Brady

The top 3 QBs in the league. 1 was a sixth rounder. The other two were #1 overall.

LaDainian Tomlinson was #5 overall

Take a look at the top tackles in the game (or recent history)

Roaf was a top 10 pick
Walter Jones--6 overall
Orlando Pace--#1 overall
Jonathon Ogden--#4 overall
Willie Anderson--#10 overall
Chris Samuels--#2 Overall


Champ Bailey, the best corner alive, was #7 overall, Chris McAlister was 10th

Urlacher was drafted 9th



Look, no one is
saying that you only need a high pick, but in order to get a truly transcendent player, your odds are greatly improved if you have a high pick AND your team can scout and draft well.
Good Point. yet only Brady and Manning Have a ring :hmmm:

[Mr. Plow]

Its who you pick, and whose diong the picking. Not what pick you have.

But.....I think you have a better shot at getting a franchise player with an earlier pick than you do with a later pick.

Then again, not every pick needs to be a franchise player.

[beach tribe]

so basically, he was projected to go first overall, but got wooed by the biggest contract in sports history from college to the USFL... recall, NOBODY was getting those kinds of contracts in those days.

that would be like the arena league offering peyton manning 500 million right out of college (back in 1998)
Yea, I was looking at that too. So we will add young , but can Dilfer really be counted?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Good Point. yet only Brady and Manning Have a ring :hmmm:

Yeah, and Steve Kerr has 5 rings and John Stockton has 0. Which one would you want as your point guard?

[tk13]

I actually agree that it's more important to have a 1st round LT than a lot of other positions. You can at least find guys like Brady, Bulger, Hasselbeck, Romo, and on and on that weren't 1st round picks. But a lot of these good teams had guys like Pace, Odgen, Tarik Glenn, Walter Jones, etc. playing LT. That's probably because the QB position requires some intangible things that people don't always evaluate well.

[beach tribe]

Good Point. yet only Brady and Manning Have a ring :hmmm:
OOOps Ogdon sorry. with Manning and Ogdon the only !st rounders with a ring. Two True No brainers.

[OnTheWarpath15]

OOOps Ogdon sorry. with Manning and Ogdon the only !st rounders with a ring. Two True No brainers.

Pace and Jones have rings as well.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I actually agree that it's more important to have a 1st round LT than a lot of other positions. You can at least find guys like Brady, Bulger, Hasselbeck, Romo, and on and on that weren't 1st round picks. But a lot of these good teams had guys like Pace, Odgen, Tarik Glenn, Walter Jones, etc. playing LT. That's probably because the QB position requires some intangible things that people don't always evaluate well.

And what does this year have in the top 10?

Two surefire franchise left tackles.

[beach tribe]

Yeah, and Steve Kerr has 5 rings and John Stockton has 0. Which one would you want as your point guard?
The one whose team had better over all drafts, and 5 rings.

[Valiant]

No it does not. Picking well is what means something. The players are there.


And picking well in the top 5 or 10 means even more..

[beach tribe]

The one whose team had better over all drafts, and 5 rings.
This is a dumb post on my part.. I mean Michael Jordan Damn.

[Mr. Plow]

The one whose team had better over all drafts, and 5 rings.

ROFL

[beach tribe]

And what does this year have in the top 10?

Two surefire franchise left tackles.
I agree that a high pick in the draft gives us a better chance at a left tackle, but what do you want to do? tank the season or what?

[Valiant]

I think that when talking about drafting top 5 and getting that all important franchise QB, it's still pretty much a crapshoot.

Just off the top of my head if I had to name the top QBs in the game right now... Guys who are good enough QBs to win a SB, I'd say....

1 - Manning (1st overall draft pick)
2 - Brady (7th rounder or something like that?)
3 - Favre
4 - Romo
5 - Not sure who's all tied for this spot.

The way it looks to me, you don't necessarily have to draft top 5 to get that franchise QB.


No but what he is saying is you have a better shot at it.. Say a QB taken in the top 5 gives you a 1 and 10 shot that they will be a franchise QB..

Where a QB taken after that in rounds 1-7 would give you a 1 in 100 shot at getting a franchise QB...

I am doing some work right now and just taking a small break but if someone would actually break down each QB taken in the last ten years in all rounds you would get a higher chance at a franchise QB with the first 5 picks then the other rounds..

[beach tribe]

ROFL
Its already been addressed, it was a foolish post.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I agree that a high pick in the draft gives us a better chance at a left tackle, but what do you want to do? tank the season or what?

I want us to play Brodie Croyle. If we win 9 games with Croyle, I'll dance a f*cking jig. If we lose 12 and he shows some promise, then great, we get Long or Baker. If we lose 12 and he looks like Ryan Leafs southern cousin, then we can think about another QBOTF.

Playing Croyle is a win-win situation for the future of the franchise. Huard is a lose-lose, because this team has no shot of making any noise in the playoffs with the way the AFC stacks up this year.

[Mr. Plow]

Its already been addressed, it was a foolish post.

I know, but it doesn't mean I can't laugh.

[Mr. Plow]

if someone would actually break down each QB taken in the last ten years in all rounds you would get a higher chance at a franchise QB with the first 5 picks then the other rounds..

It was a lot easier than I thought.....


1995 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 3 Steve McNair Alcorn State Houston Oilers
1 5 Kerry Collins Penn State Carolina Panthers
2 45 Todd Collins Michigan Buffalo Bills
2 60 Kordell Stewart Colorado Pittsburgh Steelers
3 80 Stoney Case New Mexico Arizona Cardinals
3 84 Eric Zeier Georgia Cleveland Browns
4 99 Rob Johnson USC Jacksonville Jaguars
4 111 Chad May Kansas State Minnesota Vikings
4 119 Dave Barr California Philadelphia Eagles
4 134 Steve Stenstrom Stanford Kansas City Chiefs
5 160 Jay Barker Alabama Green Bay Packers
6 197 Craig Whelihan U. of Pacific San Diego Chargers
7 213 John Walsh Brigham Young Cincinnati Bengals


1996 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
2 42 Tony Banks Michigan State St. Louis Rams
3 85 Bobby Hoying Ohio State Philadelphia Eagles
4 100 Jeff Lewis Northern Arizona Denver Broncos
4 130 Danny Kanell Florida State New York Giants
7 238 Jon Stark Trinity International Baltimore Ravens
7 240 Kyle Wachholtz USC Green Bay Packers


1997 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 26 Jim Druckenmiller Virginia Tech San Francisco 49ers
2 42 Jake Plummer Arizona State Arizona Cardinals
4 99 Danny Wuerffel Florida New Orleans Saints
4 110 Pat Barnes California Kansas City Chiefs
6 171 Mike Cherry Murray State New York Giants
6 191 Chuck Clements Houston New York Jets
7 204 Tony Graziani Oregon Atlanta Falcons
7 207 Koy Detmer Colorado Philadelphia Eagles
7 234 Wally Richardson Penn State Baltimore Ravens


1998 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 1 Peyton Manning Tennessee Indianapolis Colts
1 2 Ryan Leaf Washington State San Diego Chargers
2 60 Charlie Batch Eastern Michigan Detroit Lions
3 86 Jonathan Quinn Middle Tennessee State Jacksonville Jaguars
3 91 Brian Griese Michigan Denver Broncos
6 187 Matt Hasselbeck Boston College Green Bay Packers
7 232 Moses Moreno Colorado State Chicago Bears


1999 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 1 Tim Couch Kentucky Cleveland Browns
1 2 Donovan McNabb Syracuse Philadelphia Eagles
1 3 Akili Smith Oregon Cincinnati Bengals
1 11 Daunte Culpepper Central Florida Minnesota Vikings
1 12 Cade McNown UCLA Chicago Bears
2 50 Shaun King Tulane Tampa Bay Buccaneers
3 77 Brock Huard Washington Seattle Seahawks
4 101 Joe Germaine Ohio State St. Louis Rams
4 131 Aaron Brooks Virginia Green Bay Packers
5 151 Kevin Daft California-Davis Tennessee Titans
7 227 Michael Bishop Kansas State New England Patriots
7 239 Chris Greisen Northwest Missouri State Arizona Cardinals
7 245 Scott Covington Miami (Fla.) Cincinnati Bengals


2000 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 18 Chad Pennington Marshall New York Jets
3 65 Giovanni Carmazzi Hofstra San Francisco 49ers
3 75 Chris Redman Louisville Baltimore Ravens
5 163 Tee Martin Tennessee Pittsburgh Steelers
6 168 Marc Bulger West Virginia New Orleans Saints
6 183 Spergon Wynn Texas State Cleveland Browns
6 199 Tom Brady Michigan New England Patriots
6 202 Todd Husak Stanford Washington Redskins
7 212 Tim Rattay Louisiana Tech San Francisco 49ers
7 214 Jarious Jackson Notre Dame Denver Broncos
7 234 Joe Hamilton Georgia Tech Tampa Bay Buccaneers


2001 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 1 Michael Vick Virginia Tech Atlanta Falcons
2 32 Drew Brees Purdue San Diego Chargers
2 53 Quincy Carter Georgia Dallas Cowboys
2 59 Marques Tuiasosopo Washington Oakland Raiders
4 106 Chris Weinke Florida State Carolina Panthers
4 109 Sage Rosenfels Iowa State Washington Redskins
4 125 Jesse Palmer Florida New York Giants
5 149 Mike McMahon Rutgers Detroit Lions
5 155 A.J. Feeley Oregon Philadelphia Eagles
6 172 Josh Booty Louisiana State Seattle Seahawks
6 177 Josh Heupel Oklahoma Miami Dolphins


2002 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 1 David Carr Fresno State Houston Texans
1 3 Joey Harrington Oregon Detroit Lions
1 32 Patrick Ramsey Tulane Washington Redskins
3 81 Josh McCown Sam Houston State Arizona Cardinals
4 108 David Garrard East Carolina Jacksonville Jaguars
4 117 Rohan Davey Louisiana State New England Patriots
5 137 Randy Fasani Stanford Carolina Panthers
5 158 Kurt Kittner Illinois Atlanta Falcons
5 163 Brandon Doman Brigham Young San Francisco 49ers
5 164 Craig Nall Northwestern State-Louisiana Green Bay Packers
6 186 J.T. O'Sullivan California-Davis New Orleans Saints
7 216 Seth Burford Cal Poly-S.L.O. San Diego Chargers
7 232 Jeff Kelly Southern Mississippi Seattle Seahawks
7 235 Ronald Curry North Carolina Oakland Raiders
7 236 Wes Pate Stephen F. Austin St. Baltimore Ravens


2003 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 1 Carson Palmer USC Cincinnati Bengals
1 7 Byron Leftwich Marshall Jacksonville Jaguars
1 19 Kyle Boller California Baltimore Ravens
1 22 Rex Grossman Florida Chicago Bears
3 88 Dave Ragone Louisville Houston Texans
3 97 Chris Simms Texas Tampa Bay Buccaneers
4 110 Seneca Wallace Iowa State Seattle Seahawks
5 163 Brian St. Pierre Boston College Pittsburgh Steelers
6 192 Drew Henson Michigan Houston Texans
6 200 Brooks Bollinger Wisconsin New York Jets
6 201 Kliff Kingsbury Texas Tech New England Patriots
7 232 Gibran Hamdan Indiana Washington Redskins
7 241 Ken Dorsey Miami (Fla.) San Francisco 49ers


2004 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 1 Eli Manning Mississippi San Diego Chargers
1 4 Philip Rivers North Carolina State New York Giants
1 11 Ben Roethlisberger Miami (Ohio) Pittsburgh Steelers
1 22 J.P. Losman Tulane Buffalo Bills
3 90 Matt Schaub Virginia Atlanta Falcons
4 106 Luke McCown Louisiana Tech Cleveland Browns
5 148 Craig Krenzel Ohio State Chicago Bears
6 185 Andy Hall Delaware Philadelphia Eagles
6 187 Josh Harris Bowling Green State Baltimore Ravens
6 193 Jim Sorgi Wisconsin Indianapolis Colts
6 201 Jeff Smoker Michigan State St. Louis Rams
7 202 John Navarre Michigan Arizona Cardinals
7 217 Cody Pickett Washington San Francisco 49ers
7 218 Casey Bramlet Wyoming Cincinnati Bengals
7 225 Matt Mauck Louisiana State Denver Broncos
7 248 B.J. Symons Texas Tech Houston Texans
7 250 Bradlee Van Pelt Colorado State Denver Broncos


2005 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 1 Alex Smith Utah San Francisco 49ers
1 24 Aaron Rodgers California Green Bay Packers
1 25 Jason Campbell Auburn Washington Redskins
3 67 Charlie Frye Akron Cleveland Browns
3 69 Andrew Walter Arizona State Oakland Raiders
3 85 David Greene Georgia Seattle Seahawks
4 106 Kyle Orton Purdue Chicago Bears
4 121 Stefan LeFors Louisville Carolina Panthers
5 145 Dan Orlovsky Connecticut Detroit Lions
5 152 Adrian McPherson Florida State New Orleans Saints
6 213 Derek Anderson Oregon State Baltimore Ravens
7 230 Matt Cassel USC New England Patriots
7 250 Ryan Fitzpatrick Harvard St. Louis Rams


2006 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 3 Vince Young Texas Tennessee Titans
1 10 Matt Leinart USC Arizona Cardinals
1 11 Jay Cutler Vanderbilt Denver Broncos
2 49 Kellen Clemens Oregon New York Jets
2 64 Tarvaris Jackson Alabama State Minnesota Vikings
3 81 Charlie Whitehurst Clemson San Diego Chargers
3 85 Brodie Croyle Alabama Kansas City Chiefs
5 148 Ingle Martin Furman Green Bay Packers
5 164 Omar Jacobs Bowling Green State Pittsburgh Steelers
6 194 Bruce Gradkowski Toledo Tampa Bay Buccaneers
7 223 D.J. Shockley Georgia Atlanta Falcons


2007 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 1 JaMarcus Russell Louisiana State Oakland Raiders
1 22 Brady Quinn Notre Dame Cleveland Browns
2 36 Kevin Kolb Houston Philadelphia Eagles
2 40 John Beck Brigham Young Miami Dolphins
2 43 Drew Stanton Michigan State Detroit Lions
3 92 Trent Edwards Stanford Buffalo Bills
5 151 Jeff Rowe Nevada-Reno Cincinnati Bengals
5 174 Troy Smith Ohio State Baltimore Ravens
6 205 Jordan Palmer Texas-El Paso Washington Redskins
7 217 Tyler Thigpen Coastal Carolina Minnesota Vikings

[beach tribe]

I want us to play Brodie Croyle. If we win 9 games with Croyle, I'll dance a f*cking jig. If we lose 12 and he shows some promise, then great, we get Long or Baker. If we lose 12 and he looks like Ryan Leafs southern cousin, then we can think about another QBOTF.

Playing Croyle is a win-win situation for the future of the franchise. Huard is a lose-lose, because this team has no shot of making any noise in the playoffs with the way the AFC stacks up this year.
So you want to play Croyle..Me too,very much so, but one second, you want to Draft Brian Brohm, The next you want a LT. If Croyle does a good job and wins 5-6 games we still have no shot at Brohm or the Tackles. So basically youre saying, and have been saying, that you want us to lose so we can get a high pick.

[beach tribe]

I know, but it doesn't mean I can't laugh.
very true.

[Mr. Plow]

Dear God. I had forgotten about this.....

1999 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 1 Tim Couch Kentucky Cleveland Browns
1 2 Donovan McNabb Syracuse Philadelphia Eagles
1 3 Akili Smith Oregon Cincinnati Bengals
1 11 Daunte Culpepper Central Florida Minnesota Vikings
1 12 Cade McNown UCLA Chicago Bears

['Hamas' Jenkins]

So you want to play Croyle..Me too,very much so, but one second, you want to Draft Brian Brohm, The next you want a LT. If Croyle does a good job and wins 5-6 games we still have no shot at Brohm or the Tackles. So basically youre saying, and have been saying, that you want us to lose so we can get a high pick.

You are such a typical Chiefs fan, and this is why our franchise continues to flounder in mediocrity.

I don't want us to lose, I want us to play the young quarterback so we can see what he has so that the future of this team isn't set back another 3 years to the point where we've wholly wasted the careers of LJ and Gonzalez.

I'm sorry if that outlook might lead to us losing 1 or 2 more games than we would with Huard, but if you had any kind of foresight other than feed me now, f*ck the future, you might realize that it's in the best longterm interests of the franchise to do so.

This is why I can't stand a lot of Chiefs fans. They're happy finishing 9-7 or 8-8, but they're too goddamned impatient to actually risk having a poor year on the chance that we might find out what we actually have and change the direction of our franchise accordingly.

Guys like you deserve Peterson, man. :shake:

['Hamas' Jenkins]

If we win 5 games, we'd have a pick in the 6-9 range. That easily puts us in the spot to draft Sam Baker.

[beach tribe]

You are such a typical Chiefs fan, and this is why our franchise continues to flounder in mediocrity.

I don't want us to lose, I want us to play the young quarterback so we can see what he has so that the future of this team isn't set back another 3 years to the point where we've wholly wasted the careers of LJ and Gonzalez.

I'm sorry if that outlook might lead to us losing 1 or 2 more games than we would with Huard, but if you had any kind of foresight other than feed me now, f*ck the future, you might realize that it's in the best longterm interests of the franchise to do so.

This is why I can't stand a lot of Chiefs fans. They're happy finishing 9-7 or 8-8, but they're too goddamned impatient to actually risk having a poor year on the chance that we might find out what we actually have and change the direction of our franchise accordingly.

Guys like you deserve Peterson, man. :shake:
Dude, I just said I want to play CROYLE!!!!

And I have NO CONTROL over CPs job, and neither do you.

We have already won 2 games if Croyle wins 5 thats 7.

Just fukin ADMIT that you hope we lose 11 or twelve games .Every time I ask you that, you say " I want to play Croyle" but you should say " I want to play Croyle, and I hope he does well, IN A BUNCH OF LOSSES.

[Mr. Plow]

He's saying that every game Croyle does not play - win or lose - is setting us back for the future. He, like myself, wants to know that this franchise has a QB that will be able to lead us into the future. Not continue to build the team around a 34 year old career backup.

[beach tribe]

He's saying that every game Croyle does not play - win or lose - is setting us back for the future. He, like myself, wants to know that this franchise has a QB that will be able to lead us into the future. Not continue to build the team around a 34 year old career backup.
I totally agree with that statement, but he and 63 are constantly talking about needing a high pick, and you have to lose to get it. That has nothing to do with Croyle. I have NEVER said I wanted Huard to start. Not once, but everytime I ask a question about whether they want us to suck this season for a high pick it goes back to Brodie.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I totally agree with that statement, but he and 63 are constantly talking about needing a high pick, and you have to lose to get it. That has nothing to do with Croyle. I have NEVER said I wanted Huard to start. Not once, but everytime I ask a question about whether they want us to suck this season for a high pick it goes back to Brodie.

If Brodie plays well behind this line and we win, then we have fewer problems than we may have anticipated. We could draft a guy like Ryan Clady in the mid-late 1st instead of needing a really high pick.

If Brodie plays well and we continue to suck, then we have problems that must be addressed before we can truly compete--namely T, OG, C, CB, and possibly another DT, WLB, or S.


If Brodie sucks and our line sucks, then we can either give him another year and draft a good LT, or go after Brohm or Woodson.

If Brodie sucks and our line gives him time, then we can go after a QBOTF.

If Brodie plays well and our line sucks, we can draft a LT with a higher pick.


If Huard plays, none of these scenarios are applicable, we end up somewhere in the mid first round, and will continue to cobble together mediocre teams until our playmaker are past their prime.

Awesome.

[Valiant]

It was a lot easier than I thought.....


1995 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 3 Steve McNair Alcorn State Houston Oilers
1 5 Kerry Collins Penn State Carolina Panthers
2 45 Todd Collins Michigan Buffalo Bills
2 60 Kordell Stewart Colorado Pittsburgh Steelers
3 80 Stoney Case New Mexico Arizona Cardinals
3 84 Eric Zeier Georgia Cleveland Browns
4 99 Rob Johnson USC Jacksonville Jaguars
4 111 Chad May Kansas State Minnesota Vikings
4 119 Dave Barr California Philadelphia Eagles
4 134 Steve Stenstrom Stanford Kansas City Chiefs
5 160 Jay Barker Alabama Green Bay Packers
6 197 Craig Whelihan U. of Pacific San Diego Chargers
7 213 John Walsh Brigham Young Cincinnati Bengals


1996 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
2 42 Tony Banks Michigan State St. Louis Rams
3 85 Bobby Hoying Ohio State Philadelphia Eagles
4 100 Jeff Lewis Northern Arizona Denver Broncos
4 130 Danny Kanell Florida State New York Giants
7 238 Jon Stark Trinity International Baltimore Ravens
7 240 Kyle Wachholtz USC Green Bay Packers


1997 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 26 Jim Druckenmiller Virginia Tech San Francisco 49ers
2 42 Jake Plummer Arizona State Arizona Cardinals
4 99 Danny Wuerffel Florida New Orleans Saints
4 110 Pat Barnes California Kansas City Chiefs
6 171 Mike Cherry Murray State New York Giants
6 191 Chuck Clements Houston New York Jets
7 204 Tony Graziani Oregon Atlanta Falcons
7 207 Koy Detmer Colorado Philadelphia Eagles
7 234 Wally Richardson Penn State Baltimore Ravens


1998 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 1 Peyton Manning Tennessee Indianapolis Colts
1 2 Ryan Leaf Washington State San Diego Chargers
2 60 Charlie Batch Eastern Michigan Detroit Lions
3 86 Jonathan Quinn Middle Tennessee State Jacksonville Jaguars
3 91 Brian Griese Michigan Denver Broncos
6 187 Matt Hasselbeck Boston College Green Bay Packers
7 232 Moses Moreno Colorado State Chicago Bears


1999 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 1 Tim Couch Kentucky Cleveland Browns
1 2 Donovan McNabb Syracuse Philadelphia Eagles
1 3 Akili Smith Oregon Cincinnati Bengals
1 11 Daunte Culpepper Central Florida Minnesota Vikings
1 12 Cade McNown UCLA Chicago Bears
2 50 Shaun King Tulane Tampa Bay Buccaneers
3 77 Brock Huard Washington Seattle Seahawks
4 101 Joe Germaine Ohio State St. Louis Rams
4 131 Aaron Brooks Virginia Green Bay Packers
5 151 Kevin Daft California-Davis Tennessee Titans
7 227 Michael Bishop Kansas State New England Patriots
7 239 Chris Greisen Northwest Missouri State Arizona Cardinals
7 245 Scott Covington Miami (Fla.) Cincinnati Bengals


2000 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 18 Chad Pennington Marshall New York Jets
3 65 Giovanni Carmazzi Hofstra San Francisco 49ers
3 75 Chris Redman Louisville Baltimore Ravens
5 163 Tee Martin Tennessee Pittsburgh Steelers
6 168 Marc Bulger West Virginia New Orleans Saints
6 183 Spergon Wynn Texas State Cleveland Browns
6 199 Tom Brady Michigan New England Patriots
6 202 Todd Husak Stanford Washington Redskins
7 212 Tim Rattay Louisiana Tech San Francisco 49ers
7 214 Jarious Jackson Notre Dame Denver Broncos
7 234 Joe Hamilton Georgia Tech Tampa Bay Buccaneers


2001 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 1 Michael Vick Virginia Tech Atlanta Falcons
2 32 Drew Brees Purdue San Diego Chargers
2 53 Quincy Carter Georgia Dallas Cowboys
2 59 Marques Tuiasosopo Washington Oakland Raiders
4 106 Chris Weinke Florida State Carolina Panthers
4 109 Sage Rosenfels Iowa State Washington Redskins
4 125 Jesse Palmer Florida New York Giants
5 149 Mike McMahon Rutgers Detroit Lions
5 155 A.J. Feeley Oregon Philadelphia Eagles
6 172 Josh Booty Louisiana State Seattle Seahawks
6 177 Josh Heupel Oklahoma Miami Dolphins


2002 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 1 David Carr Fresno State Houston Texans
1 3 Joey Harrington Oregon Detroit Lions
1 32 Patrick Ramsey Tulane Washington Redskins
3 81 Josh McCown Sam Houston State Arizona Cardinals
4 108 David Garrard East Carolina Jacksonville Jaguars
4 117 Rohan Davey Louisiana State New England Patriots
5 137 Randy Fasani Stanford Carolina Panthers
5 158 Kurt Kittner Illinois Atlanta Falcons
5 163 Brandon Doman Brigham Young San Francisco 49ers
5 164 Craig Nall Northwestern State-Louisiana Green Bay Packers
6 186 J.T. O'Sullivan California-Davis New Orleans Saints
7 216 Seth Burford Cal Poly-S.L.O. San Diego Chargers
7 232 Jeff Kelly Southern Mississippi Seattle Seahawks
7 235 Ronald Curry North Carolina Oakland Raiders
7 236 Wes Pate Stephen F. Austin St. Baltimore Ravens


2003 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 1 Carson Palmer USC Cincinnati Bengals
1 7 Byron Leftwich Marshall Jacksonville Jaguars
1 19 Kyle Boller California Baltimore Ravens
1 22 Rex Grossman Florida Chicago Bears
3 88 Dave Ragone Louisville Houston Texans
3 97 Chris Simms Texas Tampa Bay Buccaneers
4 110 Seneca Wallace Iowa State Seattle Seahawks
5 163 Brian St. Pierre Boston College Pittsburgh Steelers
6 192 Drew Henson Michigan Houston Texans
6 200 Brooks Bollinger Wisconsin New York Jets
6 201 Kliff Kingsbury Texas Tech New England Patriots
7 232 Gibran Hamdan Indiana Washington Redskins
7 241 Ken Dorsey Miami (Fla.) San Francisco 49ers




Okay I stopped after 2003 draft, just because I believe you need a few years to see if your QB is a franchise talent or not...

Agian this is only for Franchise QB's.. The first number is for the first 5 picks, everything else is included in the second number.. Just to compare odds of nailing a franchise QB with a top 5 selection as opposed to picking one up elsewhere in the draft..

95:
1-2: Mcnair
0-11

96:
0-0
0-6

97:
0-0
0-9

98:
1-2: Peyton
1-5: Hasselbeck

99:
1-3 Mcnabb
0-10

00:
0-0
2-11: Brady, Bulger

01:
1-1: Vick(man I hate typing that)
1-10: Brees

02:
0-2
0-13

03:
1-1: Palmer
0-12

---------------------------------------(just from 95-03) someone else can do more to get a more accurate number...

So by the numbers of netting a franchise QB in the first 5 picks you have a 5 in 11 chance for 45% chance.. Where as getting a franchise QB with the remaining picks you have a 4 in 87 chance at 5%..


It's not guaranteed you will get a franchise QB by picking in the top 5, but your odds are a hell of a lot better...

[beach tribe]

Okay I stopped after 2003 draft, just because I believe you need a few years to see if your QB is a franchise talent or not...

Agian this is only for Franchise QB's.. The first number is for the first 5 picks, everything else is included in the second number.. Just to compare odds of nailing a franchise QB with a top 5 selection as opposed to picking one up elsewhere in the draft..

95:
1-2: Mcnair
0-11

96:
0-0
0-6

97:
0-0
0-9

98:
1-2: Peyton
1-5: Hasselbeck

99:
1-3 Mcnabb
0-10

00:
0-0
2-11: Brady, Bulger

01:
1-1: Vick(man I hate typing that)
1-10: Brees

02:
0-2
0-13

03:
1-1: Palmer
0-12

---------------------------------------(just from 95-03) someone else can do more to get a more accurate number...

So by the numbers of netting a franchise QB in the first 5 picks you have a 5 in 11 chance for 45% chance.. Where as getting a franchise QB with the remaining picks you have a 4 in 87 chance at 5%..


It's not guaranteed you will get a franchise QB by picking in the top 5, but your odds are a hell of a lot better...
Good work. I guess that puts the Raiders in the other 55%. :p

[beach tribe]

If Brodie plays well behind this line and we win, then we have fewer problems than we may have anticipated. We could draft a guy like Ryan Clady in the mid-late 1st instead of needing a really high pick.

If Brodie plays well and we continue to suck, then we have problems that must be addressed before we can truly compete--namely T, OG, C, CB, and possibly another DT, WLB, or S.


If Brodie sucks and our line sucks, then we can either give him another year and draft a good LT, or go after Brohm or Woodson.

If Brodie sucks and our line gives him time, then we can go after a QBOTF.

If Brodie plays well and our line sucks, we can draft a LT with a higher pick.


If Huard plays, none of these scenarios are applicable, we end up somewhere in the mid first round, and will continue to cobble together mediocre teams until our playmaker are past their prime.

Awesome.
Thats the thing. I think Brodie WILL play well, and we will have a 10 win season or more. He is a gun slinger and we have D Bowe and TG going up after the ball, and we will STILL need O-line. My Question that you have danced around is: would you rather us lose 10-11 games so we have a shot at that left tackle that we will need, whether Brodie plays well or not?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Thats the thing. I think Brodie WILL play well, and we will have a 10 win season or more. He is a gun slinger and we have D Bowe and TG going up after the ball, and we will STILL need O-line. My Question that you have danced around is: would you rather us lose 10-11 games so we have a shot at that left tackle that we will need, whether Brodie plays well or not?

If Brodie plays well and we win 10 games, then we can draft Gosder Cherlius out of BC, he can replace that sack of monkey shit Kyle Turley, and I would do this PBJ PBJ PBJ

[beach tribe]

If Brodie plays well and we win 10 games, then we can draft Gosder Cherlius out of BC, he can replace that sack of monkey shit Kyle Turley, and I would do this PBJ PBJ PBJ
Cool man. That would kick ass.

[Pitt Gorilla]

And what does this year have in the top 10?

Two surefire franchise left tackles.Ferguson was a "sure fire" franchise left tackle.

[BigRedChief]

I want us to play Brodie Croyle. If we win 9 games with Croyle, I'll dance a f*cking jig. If we lose 12 and he shows some promise, then great, we get Long or Baker. If we lose 12 and he looks like Ryan Leafs southern cousin, then we can think about another QBOTF.

Playing Croyle is a win-win situation for the future of the franchise. Huard is a lose-lose, because this team has no shot of making any noise in the playoffs with the way the AFC stacks up this year.Here. Here.:clap: No friggin way we are going into Indy or the Pats home turf and winning those playoff games this year. Why not figure out if you have a QOTF?

[beach tribe]

Ferguson was a "sure fire" franchise left tackle.
Good point.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Ferguson was a "sure fire" franchise left tackle.

Not really. He was the top LT on the board, but I guarantee he didn't have the draft grade of Joe Thomas or Jake Long.

With that said, he'll be a rock-solid LT for 10 years. The Jets fans need to get off his ass, though. They have a noodle armed QB who couldn't stretch a driveway, let alone a football field, a running back whose nickname was The Peeler (because he dances around like a stripper and goes down twice as fast), and a shit D.

Tha Brick would be devastating in a zone blocking scheme.

[beach tribe]

Here. Here.:clap: No friggin way we are going into Indy or the Pats home turf and winning those playoff games thisa year. Why not figure out if you have a QOTF?
Everyone in their right mind should want to see Croyle.

But I seem to remember the Steelers going in and beating the 14-2 Colts.

Not very likely, but not impossible.

[beach tribe]

Everyone in their right mind should want to see Croyle.

But I seem to remember the Steelers going in and beating the 14-2 Colts.

Not very likely, but not impossible.




Im gonna get so ripped.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Im gonna get so ripped.

Manning struggles against the exotic blitzes that a 3-4 can bring because his pre snap audibles don't work.

We don't run a 3-4.

End of story.

[BigRedChief]

Everyone in their right mind should want to see Croyle.

But I seem to remember the Steelers going in and beating the 14-2 Colts.

Not very likely, but not impossible.We ain't the Steelers. BTW they won the Super Bowl that year correct?
And the Indy defense of 2007 is vastly improved from that version

[beach tribe]

We ain't the Steelers. BTW the won the Super Bowl that year correct?

And the Indy defense of 2007 is vastly improved from that version
I know I know. I admittedly did that just get a rise......sorry :p

[pikesome]

Not really. He was the top LT on the board, but I guarantee he didn't have the draft grade of Joe Thomas or Jake Long.

With that said, he'll be a rock-solid LT for 10 years. The Jets fans need to get off his ass, though. They have a noodle armed QB who couldn't stretch a driveway, let alone a football field, a running back whose nickname was The Peeler (because he dances around like a stripper and goes down twice as fast), and a shit D.

Tha Brick would be devastating in a zone blocking scheme.

Are you making "The Peeler" up? Please, I hope not, that's about one of the funniest things I've heard in a long time. :)

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Are you making "The Peeler" up? Please, I hope not, that's about one of the funniest things I've heard in a long time. :)

That was Jones' nickname with the Bears.

[Frosty]

Dear God. I had forgotten about this.....

1999 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 1 Tim Couch Kentucky Cleveland Browns
1 2 Donovan McNabb Syracuse Philadelphia Eagles
1 3 Akili Smith Oregon Cincinnati Bengals
1 11 Daunte Culpepper Central Florida Minnesota Vikings
1 12 Cade McNown UCLA Chicago Bears


Yeah, that was the year all of the draft "experts" were pimping as the second coming of the "Class of 1983" for QBs.

Oops.

[keg in kc]

Good first round picks making a team better.

Gee, that's a news flash.

Wonder why nobody ever figured that out before.

[chiefsfan1963]

You are such a typical Chiefs fan, and this is why our franchise continues to flounder in mediocrity.

I don't want us to lose, I want us to play the young quarterback so we can see what he has so that the future of this team isn't set back another 3 years to the point where we've wholly wasted the careers of LJ and Gonzalez.

I'm sorry if that outlook might lead to us losing 1 or 2 more games than we would with Huard, but if you had any kind of foresight other than feed me now, f*ck the future, you might realize that it's in the best longterm interests of the franchise to do so.

This is why I can't stand a lot of Chiefs fans. They're happy finishing 9-7 or 8-8, but they're too goddamned impatient to actually risk having a poor year on the chance that we might find out what we actually have and change the direction of our franchise accordingly.

Guys like you deserve Peterson, man. :shake:

:clap: :clap: :clap: I have been saying this for freakin years!!!!!!!

[chiefsfan1963]

Okay I stopped after 2003 draft, just because I believe you need a few years to see if your QB is a franchise talent or not...

Agian this is only for Franchise QB's.. The first number is for the first 5 picks, everything else is included in the second number.. Just to compare odds of nailing a franchise QB with a top 5 selection as opposed to picking one up elsewhere in the draft..

95:
1-2: Mcnair
0-11

96:
0-0
0-6

97:
0-0
0-9

98:
1-2: Peyton
1-5: Hasselbeck

99:
1-3 Mcnabb
0-10

00:
0-0
2-11: Brady, Bulger

01:
1-1: Vick(man I hate typing that)
1-10: Brees

02:
0-2
0-13

03:
1-1: Palmer
0-12

---------------------------------------(just from 95-03) someone else can do more to get a more accurate number...

So by the numbers of netting a franchise QB in the first 5 picks you have a 5 in 11 chance for 45% chance.. Where as getting a franchise QB with the remaining picks you have a 4 in 87 chance at 5%..


It's not guaranteed you will get a franchise QB by picking in the top 5, but your odds are a hell of a lot better...


We are not just talking about franchise QB's! We're talking franchise players in any position. Having a Top 5, 10 , or 15 pick in rounds 1-7 gives you a better opportunity to grab quality players that can build a strong team that can win multiple SB's. No one is suggesting losing games purposely, but the goal is to get to SB's and win them multiple times! Think about it before you disagree. This franchise has had no problem winning games in the regular seasons, the problem has been they have not reached the SB in 37 years and have been pathetic in the playoffs. IT"S TIME TO CHANGE THE PLAN!!!!!!! GET RID OF CP AND HIS STAFF NOW!!!!!!!!

[Mr. Plow]

GET RID OF CP AND HIS STAFF NOW!!!!!!!!

I'll start the paperwork tomorrow....

[Valiant]

We are not just talking about franchise QB's! We're talking franchise players in any position. Having a Top 5, 10 , or 15 pick in rounds 1-7 gives you a better opportunity to grab quality players that can build a strong team that can win multiple SB's. No one is suggesting losing games purposely, but the goal is to get to SB's and win them multiple times! Think about it before you disagree. This franchise has had no problem winning games in the regular seasons, the problem has been they have not reached the SB in 37 years and have been pathetic in the playoffs. IT"S TIME TO CHANGE THE PLAN!!!!!!! GET RID OF CP AND HIS STAFF NOW!!!!!!!!


Not sure why you are ranting to me, I said I would research franchise QB's, said nothing about other franchise positions.. So what ever you are smoking that created this argument in your head, put it down and switch to beer..

But if you used every position for franchise players it would still be astronomically higher to nab a franchise player in the top 5/10 spots then anywhere else..

[Logical]

...

7 207 Koy Detmer Colorado Philadelphia Eagles

6 187 Matt Hasselbeck Boston College Green Bay Packers

4 131 Aaron Brooks Virginia Green Bay Packers

6 168 Marc Bulger West Virginia New Orleans Saints
6 199 Tom Brady Michigan New England Patriots

5 155 A.J. Feeley Oregon Philadelphia Eagles

3 90 Matt Schaub Virginia Atlanta Falcons
4 106 Luke McCown Louisiana Tech Cleveland Browns

Basically since 1995 there are 7 QBs that might be considered 2nd day starters not that many impressive ones at that, mainly Brady, Bulger and Hasselbach with Schaub looking promising.

[blueballs]

Top 10 picks cost you a big chunk of salary cap
Sims was a major waste of cap space
look how cheap LJ was for his 2 previous years

[FloridaMan88]

Top 10 picks cost you a big chunk of salary cap
Sims was a major waste of cap space
look how cheap LJ was for his 2 previous years

It is only a waste of cap space if you blow your top 10 pick on a bust, like Carl and the Chiefs did with Sims.

On the other hand if you pick the right guy (i.e. John Henderson) then your defensive line would be set for years.

[ChiefsGirl]

First Rounders Make The Difference!

I loved the first "Rounders" and I didn't know they were making another one. Is Matt Damon going to be in it too? :)