Rasslin is CHA CHA LA..LA,LA,LA,LA,LA

[dirk digler]

How long until a run-in happens?

[dirk digler]

LMAO

[keg in kc]

Everybody ready to see Orton sell to Vinny Mac's awesome offense?

[keg in kc]

Just saw the best idea ever on another board:

Have Jamie Noble hit on Santina.

[dirk digler]

This is pathetic actually

[keg in kc]

Everybody ready to see Orton sell to Vinny Mac's awesome offense?I hate being right.

[chiefs1111]

RKO

[keg in kc]

Time for a run in, Orton's on offense.

[keg in kc]

LMAO, a few people are cheering Orton stalking around the ring.

[chiefs1111]

and of course here comes shane

[Mecca]

And here comes Shane, lovely.

[keg in kc]

There's a ton of time left, like 6 or 7 minutes.

[chiefs1111]

Huntor angry

[keg in kc]

Being set up for Hun-Tor to save the McMahons. Again.

[chiefs1111]

watch Stephine come out any minute now lol

[Mecca]

Oh no Batista.

[keg in kc]

This would be a great time to re-introduce DH Smith, have a new Legacy member.

[dirk digler]

That was actually pretty good

[chiefs1111]

well,that's a little better

[keg in kc]

Just when I thought this couldn't get any lamer.

(I hate Blahtista)

[BryanBusby]

Batista got a pretty huge pop

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Jesus Fucking Christ.

[keg in kc]

Batista got a pretty huge popWas a legitimate surpise. Don't see those very often.

[Jerm]

Sooo Orton and Legacy are buried hardcore for a THIRD consecutive show.

Whatever momentum they had and Orton had as the company's top heel is gone...see ya.

Ugh.

[chiefs1111]

Just when I thought this couldn't get any lamer.

(I hate Blahtista)

Well,it's better than having Vince in it...

[dirk digler]

Was a legitimate surpise. Don't see those very often.

Yep. That is why I thought it was pretty good even though Batista is a pretty lousy wrestler plus he moves slow.

[keg in kc]

Once again, one guy takes out Legacy by himself.

How is anybody supposed to believe they have any shot in the match when Shane's taken all 3 of them down by himself, when HHH's taken all 3 of them down by himself and now Batista's taken all 3 of them down by himself.

Worst timing possible, too, because Legacy was actually looking strong for 15 whole seconds before he came out.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I love how they've turned Legacy into the fucking Spirit Squad. I'm just waiting for HHH to toss Rhodes and DiBiase into an FCW box, and Orton into a TNA box.

[unothadeal]

K I wasn't watching when Batista got hurt (?) Did Orton have anything to do with him leaving or is this completely random?

[unothadeal]

Also, LOL at Shane's punches.

[chiefs1111]

I love how they've turned Legacy into the fucking Spirit Squad.

:LOL:

[BryanBusby]

K I wasn't watching when Batista got hurt (?) Did Orton have anything to do with him leaving or is this completely random?

Orton cunt punted him in the head.

I think he had a shoulder issue or something.

[keg in kc]

K I wasn't watching when Batista got hurt (?) Did Orton have anything to do with him leaving or is this completely random?They sold it at the time as due to Orton punting him in the head, as I recall, and not due to his hamstring injury.

[dirk digler]

Once again, one guy takes out Legacy by himself.

How is anybody supposed to believe they have any shot in the match when Shane's taken all 3 of them down by himself, when HHH's taken all 3 of them down by himself and now Batista's taken all 3 of them down by himself.

Worst timing possible, too, because Legacy was actually looking strong for 15 whole seconds before he came out.

Well when Vince beats down Orton for like 5 minutes it pretty much shows they are weak

Have you noticed Cody is always the one that is left in the ring for the beatdown?

[keg in kc]

Here's another wild guess:

Shawn Michaels replaces Shane next week, and Legacy's utterly destroyed at Backlash.

(Although if you did want to do some repair work on a heel stable, having them beat those 3 would be a good start).

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I think I'm about to go on a WWE hiatus. I just can't take the reign of doom part 2.

The only redeeming possibility here would be if Batista turned on HHH at Backlash, but I just don't see that happening.

[BryanBusby]

I could totally see Batista winning by pinning Orton. Next week, "blah blah blah I should be #1 contender blah blah blah"

[Captain Obvious]

I think I'm about to go on a WWE hiatus. I just can't take the reign of doom part 2.

The only redeeming possibility here would be if Batista turned on HHH at Backlash, but I just don't see that happening.

He does 'walk alone' after all....

[Ultra Peanut]

That 10-man tag was crazy awesome.

[Boris The Great]

The WWE isnt about giving fans what they want

God the WWE is really pissing me off.

If you are watching the WWE for wrestling you should probably stop.

So why exactly DO you watch wrestling?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

So why exactly DO you watch wrestling?

Every now and then it redeems itself, but generally, the HHH era is just pure schadenfraude.

I'll probably get milked along just long enough to see the draft and watch Orton get buried at Backlash, then I'll ride off into the sunset while Terra Ryzing sacrifices a younger, better talent to satiate his ego.

[unothadeal]

Man, a Hart Foundation 2.0/Legacy feud would be beyond awesome.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Man, a Hart Foundation 2.0/Legacy feud would be beyond awesome.

Why do that when McMahonamania can run wild?

[Swanman]

Why do that when McMahonamania can run wild?

Adam Pearce (now holding the book for ROH) is like an anti-McMahon. Since he took over the book from Gabe Sapolsky, he has come out from backstage to wrestle twice: 1) he got bloodied and the living shit kicked out of him in a 10 man cage match and 2) he got squashed by Bobby Dempsey, who is basically a fat dork that the crowds turned into a pseudo-star. And this is considering that Pearce is an actual wrestler, not a roided-up 90-year-old or a dork who watches MMA and prances around like a queer.

[Ultra Peanut]

He really seems to know how to play to their smarky pre-hatred of him.

[okcchief]

I quit watching wrestling for the most part around 2002. I'll turn to Raw here and there but it never keeps my interest more than a few minutes.

This thread amuses me as it's the same shit that was being said about the WWE then. The WWE doesn't care about what the fans want to see because they make a shit ton of money regardless. They are basically like the Chicago Cubs. If you keep watching it there is no reason for them to get better. The best eras in professional wrestling were when they were forced to be creative to gain viewers and survive.

The fans who continue to tune in every week to bitch about every aspect are just enabling them. You would be better served by getting your wrestling fix through indy feds and truely saying fuck off to the WWE.

I still love wrestling but the product they put out is complete fucking shit with an exception of a few matches here and there.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I quit watching wrestling for the most part around 2002. I'll turn to Raw here and there but it never keeps my interest more than a few minutes.

This thread amuses me as it's the same shit that was being said about the WWE then. The WWE doesn't care about what the fans want to see because they make a shit ton of money regardless. They are basically like the Chicago Cubs. If you keep watching it there is no reason for them to get better. The best eras in professional wrestling were when they were forced to be creative to gain viewers and survive.

The fans who continue to tune in every week to bitch about every aspect are just enabling them. You would be better served by getting your wrestling fix through indy feds and truely saying fuck off to the WWE.

I still love wrestling but the product they put out is complete fucking shit with an exception of a few matches here and there.

Welp,

[Buck]

I shall forever be Endebted to whomever finds me a Dancing Blue Meanie .gif

['Hamas' Jenkins]

hold on, I'll make you one real quick.

[Buck]

Dude, that would be awesome.

[unothadeal]

In the meantime

http://i033.radikal.ru/0801/49/c223d910f30a.gif

[Mecca]

Random picture time!

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii24/rellik91/Shelly-Martinez-Ariel.jpg

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Say hello to the Blue Guy

http://i43.tinypic.com/2mq0zub.gif

[Ultra Peanut]

Say hello to the Blue Guy

http://i43.tinypic.com/2mq0zub.gifhttp://j.photos.cx/c5c7599aa2ad7156e9bf7df0c1f6fc24e625b6bd-f03.gif

[keg in kc]

Tonight's ECW ME: Colons and Bourne versus MnM and Kidd

Should be good.

[unothadeal]

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9859/hogan0mfhl1.gif

['Hamas' Jenkins]

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9859/hogan0mfhl1.gif

Nandrolone and Cocaine is a hell of a combo.

[Mecca]

Maybe its just me but I think this is the most most wrong thing I've ever seen..

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/MackemRoid/Wrestling/WWF%208Bit%20Gifs/1231539980447.gif

[Ultra Peanut]

http://j.photos.cx/jerichoonjericho-e7e.gif

[unothadeal]

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/WrestleMation/london_paul/misc/LPM_RottNKorpse_1.gif

[unothadeal]

http://ringinsider.com/wrestlingmedia/photos/gifs/bradshawnazi.gif

[Ultra Peanut]

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/WrestleMation/london_paul/misc/LPM_RottNKorpse_1.gifhttp://j.photos.cx/47f97bb350656012568cd174fb0b26d2c3104d56-241.gif

http://j.photos.cx/ooooohyeah.00-221.gif

[unothadeal]

I was gonna save this for the next time DCS agrees with Mecca

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l87/kdog414141/hbkcock.gif

[Ultra Peanut]

I was gonna save this for the next time DCS agrees with Mecca

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l87/kdog414141/hbkcock.gifprayse jeezus

http://j.photos.cx/hbgay2dj-e3f.gif

[unothadeal]

prayse jeezus

http://j.photos.cx/hbgay2dj-e3f.gif

Haha who's the other guy? Looks like Jimmy Wang Yang (no pun intended)

[Mecca]

It's Edge...it's from their street fight on Raw.

[unothadeal]

It's Edge...it's from their street fight on Raw.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l87/kdog414141/YEAH.gif

[Buck]

prayse jeezus

http://j.photos.cx/hbgay2dj-e3f.gif

Is your sig a quote from Chris from The Wire?

[Ultra Peanut]

Is your sig a quote from Chris from The Wire?Yeah. It was kind of in response to DeMarre Carroll's uncanny resemblance to him.

[Buck]

Yeah. It was kind of in response to DeMarre Carrol's uncanny resemblance to him.

It's funny how Chris looked like the most Ghetto person on that show, yet he was the most well-spoken Gang Member there was.

Not here though.

http://expressnightout.com/content/photos/20080307-gbenga5.jpg

[keg in kc]

I miss the good ol' days

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oVTltE7w6g8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oVTltE7w6g8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/P6YL7sHWXag&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/P6YL7sHWXag&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[keg in kc]

And in tonight's not-so-good match Mark Henry, Christian, Tommy Dreamer and Fit Finlay face off in a four-way to determine who faces Swagger for the title at backlash.

I predict Dreamer.

[Ultra Peanut]

http://j.photos.cx/Nitrospin-681.gif

[big nasty kcnut]

http://j.photos.cx/c5c7599aa2ad7156e9bf7df0c1f6fc24e625b6bd-f03.gif


Steamboat and punk and hardy is good. Cena and rey not so much.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Reaper16]

Anyone know a non-torrent link to the HBK/Taker match that someone has uploaded?

[Mecca]

Anyone know a non-torrent link to the HBK/Taker match that someone has uploaded?

Well on youtube there's a part 1 and part 3 and 4 but some jackass got part 2 deleted with a copyright claim...

[Reaper16]

Well on youtube there's a part 1 and part 3 and 4 but some jackass got part 2 deleted with a copyright claim...
Yeah, I saw that. And I found a good part 3-5 on Dailymotion, but not parts 1 & 2.

I've found a two-parter that I'm letting load, but I'm not convinced that its actually the whole match.

[Mecca]

I hate that youtube is so popular now, if anything WWE related goes up they have it taken off within days.

[Jerm]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/laiZgrIpbcA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/laiZgrIpbcA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Mecca]

I know they make fun of Warrior and all and then they talk shit on him for holding them up for money but the truth is...he is still one of the biggest money makers they ever had. I think it's ridiculous when we have them acting like Hogan was the only guy that ever deserved to be paid..

Or when they put out DVDs talking about the greatness of Michaels and how Warrior is this complete douchebag scrub. When in reality ringwork aside, Ultimate Warrior made far more money than Shawn Michaels ever did...

[Jerm]

Yeah, the Warrior DVD is a complete burial...no surprise there.

I just think that segment is the funniest thing ever, Warrior's promos are beyond bizarre.

[Mecca]

Yeah, the Warrior DVD is a complete burial...no surprise there.

I just think that segment is the funniest thing ever, Warrior's promos are beyond bizarre.

Sure, but that's basically a typical WWE thing. He wasn't a good wrestler but the reality is, almost the entire WWE roster at that time wasn't. He had a unique look and gimmick and was majorly over and made money. I've seen some shoots with Warrior he's not nearly as out there as is implied, He always addresses things as "my character" "working on a language for my character"

I always wonder if it pains guys like H and Michaels that no matter how hard they try they will never draw like he did. Shawn Michaels era on top nearly bankrupted the company.

[Jerm]

Oh I agree, my point was just that you knew that Vince and co. were going to turn that DVD into a hatchet job and bury the Warrior after their beef with him.

I don't know what to make of him TBH, he just seems really out there for me, both in and out of the ring.

Those promos are gold though...as is Jericho's interpretation lol.

[unothadeal]

Seems like a nice enough guy

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HIbC8dB1xio&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HIbC8dB1xio&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Sure, but that's basically a typical WWE thing. He wasn't a good wrestler but the reality is, almost the entire WWE roster at that time wasn't. He had a unique look and gimmick and was majorly over and made money. I've seen some shoots with Warrior he's not nearly as out there as is implied, He always addresses things as "my character" "working on a language for my character"

I always wonder if it pains guys like H and Michaels that no matter how hard they try they will never draw like he did. Shawn Michaels era on top nearly bankrupted the company.

They were going to bury Hart too before he agreed to talk with Vince and go to Stamford to meet and discuss his history.

And I guarantee you that it chaps their asses. No matter how many illegitimate reigns he gets, Triple H is not, and never will be a major draw. However, someone for 411 did a good job tracking merch sales of his opponents. What he is good at is depressing the merch sales of the guy he is facing because of how he buries them in the feud.

H isn't a draw.
Cena is a draw. I will say that as much as I don't like the Cena character, I respect the fact that he busts his ass inside and outside of the ring, and he makes his opponents get a lot of offense in before he hits the five moves of doom. H has never, ever learned this story.

[Reaper16]

H isn't a draw.
Cena is a draw. I will say that as much as I don't like the Cena character, I respect the fact that he busts his ass inside and outside of the ring, and he makes his opponents get a lot of offense in before he hits the five moves of doom. H has never, ever learned this story.
Cena would be appreciated a lot more if he didn't have that Paul Levesque-esque (c wat i did there?) streak of being booked like an unbeatable super-beast a while back. Despite having a bland character and having less-than-desired ability, he's really passionate about the industry.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Cena would be appreciated a lot more if he didn't have that Paul Levesque-esque (c wat i did there?) streak of being booked like an unbeatable super-beast a while back. Despite having a bland character and having less-than-desired ability, he's really passionate about the industry.

Maybe, but since he came back from his first major injury, he gave the rub to Batista, fucking JBL, Shawn Michaels, whoever got the clean pin on him in the EC match at NWO, Orton, HHH got his pin back, he's jobbed quite a bit for the top face in the company.

Meanwhile, look at Paul's record after he came off his two major injuries.

Since August '07, he has a clean pin loss to Jeff Hardy?, and I believe that is it.

Fuck, Triple H and TV-PG are just ruining this product :shake:

[Reaper16]

Maybe, but since he came back from his first major injury, he gave the rub to Batista, fucking JBL, Shawn Michaels, whoever got the clean pin on him in the EC match at NWO, Orton, HHH got his pin back, he's jobbed quite a bit for the top face in the company.

Meanwhile, look at Paul's record after he came off his two major injuries.

Since August '07, he has a clean pin loss to Jeff Hardy?, and I believe that is it.

Fuck, Triple H and TV-PG are just ruining this product :shake:
True dat, unfortunately.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

You know, what, I'm just going to keep ranting on Triple H.

Why? Because fuck him, that's why.

This post is great though:

I will never warm to him, as he simply has held to may careers back when they were on the brink of stardom. RVD was n fire when he was jobbed out to Hunter, Kane had finally regained that spark when Hunter blocked from the main event. Now I know his fans may sneer at these two but people these were both insanely over when Hunter killed their pushes,. Now then lets begin this talk with Booker T.
The feud they had back in 2003 was a disgrace, Booker on fire at the top was made to look like ****, and the climax to their match at mania remains one of the most disgraceful finishes you will see for a long time. For those who don’t remember Hunter took nearly half a minute to pin Booker which killed Bookers momentum and took him years to regain.
Then we shall fast forward to Cena at Mania in 2006. Hunter the heel in there feud in the build up showed no interest in getting Cena cheers which was a total no no for a heel.Cena was made to look beneath him and even in the match Hunter done little to get the crowd behind Cena. The biggest disgrace to this was of course he had politicked his way into the match, Edge who was in the form of his life should have been in the match, at least he would have got the crowd like Cena which he proved he could do superbly later that year.
Now then lets analyse his return, first thing he killed Booker in a squash match at Summerslam which was to be synonymous with what was to come. The night he buried five guys for no reason including the tag champions made no sense storyline wise except to boost Hunters ego. Then he turned Carlito a decent upper card heel into a total jobber, in the space of a few weeks. The guy was one of the more promising heels in the roster, but Hunter killed his momentum and its he is only beginning to recover from this burial. He has admitted this himself in interviews. We look at the brutal 2008 title reign which was terrible, the crap matches with Khali, the fact that Cena and Edge for some unknown reason were jobbed out to him to sooth his massive ego. Then of course he destroyed Umanga over and over.
I should mention Orton his most disgraceful burial.....
2004, Orton has the title for a mere month before he has to job out to Hunter for months.
2006 Orton and Edge were buried by DX, at least HBK earned some redemption by putting Orton over clean in 2007
2007 Hunter was it again, he ruined the night when Orton regained the title by pinning him 30 minutes after he got it.
2008 Just when Orton’s run with her belt had taken off, Hunter buried him in three consecutive PPVS.

Since Backlash 2006, Hunter has not been pinned with a finisher in a PPV, he lost twice last year on TV which was a result of interference. it’s the manner of his victories as well which leave a sick taste in the mouth, Cena tries always to make his opponents look good while Hunter destroys them.

[Reaper16]

Since Backlash 2006, Hunter has not been pinned with a finisher in a PPV,
Indefensible.

Where you at, Big Rock, where you at?
Over here, to the rear, with your girl & the fourties of beer.
Where you at Big Rock, where you at?
Over there with the bad attitude cause I just don't care.

[Bowser]

I'm just a very casual observer of wrestling these days, but Hamas has me wanting to see Hun-tor blow out his quad again.


A question for those of you way more up to speed on the WWE than I - Have they had a sizable drop in talent coming up through the ranks? It seems to me that since Austin and Rock have left, it's the same guys having the same feuds over and over, with the names changing back and forth from month to month. And as for the talent that seemed to be on the way up (the Carlito's and Shelton Benjamin's, for example), why were they undercarded?

[Bowser]

Indefensible.

Where you at, Big Rock, where you at?
Over here, to the rear, with your girl & the fourties of beer.
Where you at Big Rock, where you at?
Over there with the bad attitude cause I just don't care.

LMAO

['Hamas' Jenkins]

During Randy Orton's media blitz of the U.K. last month, PowerSlam Magazine conducted an interview with him. During the interview, Orton's asked if he was happy that Triple H got drafted to SmackDown. Suffice it to say, Orton was. Orton also noted a comment Umaga told him backstage during the night of the draft regarding moving away from Triple H when he was drafted to SmackDown (but before he found out Triple H was moving to). And then you won't believe what Orton has to say on Triple H. Here are Orton's comments when asked by PowerSlam Magazine what he thought about HHH being drafted to SmackDown:

I was at the Draft (on June 23) after I got hurt. I was in the locker room watching the backstage monitor. I was hoping to get traded (from Raw to SmackDown). Actually, it's funny because Umaga just got traded to SmackDown. He was like, "Man, you know what? At least I haven't got to be around Triple H no more." So (Umaga) goes to SmackDown and I'm like, "Yeah ... F--k you!" The last Draft pick's Triple H and I'm like (punches the air), "Yes! Oh, my God! Yes, yes, yes!" I went right up to Umaga and I was, like, "You've got to deal with it now!" It was my favourite Draft pick, to be honest with you. And we got Rey Mysterio, we got Kane, Batista. I've got history with those guys.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I'm just a very casual observer of wrestling these days, but Hamas has me wanting to see Hun-tor blow out his quad again.


A question for those of you way more up to speed on the WWE than I - Have they had a sizable drop in talent coming up through the ranks? It seems to me that since Austin and Rock have left, it's the same guys having the same feuds over and over, with the names changing back and forth from month to month. And as for the talent that seemed to be on the way up (the Carlito's and Shelton Benjamin's, for example), why were they undercarded?

Here's the problem: You don't have territories to build guys any more. There isn't any place for people to ply their craft. Furthermore, the territory system would teach guys to wrestle different styles, whether or not it was Strong Style (like the Harts) or the Southern style.

Imagine a pitcher who was able to learn 4 good pitches before being called up, and got to build up from 120 to 150 to 180 to then 200 innings. He'd be much better prepared than a guy who went straight from high school to high A, and then got called up in September and was thrust into a make-it-or-break-it role in the big leagues.

Of course, Vince destroyed the territories, so it's largely he who benefits and suffers from their decline (although not nearly as much suffering as we do).

[Bowser]

Here's the problem: You don't have territories to build guys any more. There isn't any place for people to ply their craft. Furthermore, the territory system would teach guys to wrestle different styles, whether or not it was Strong Style (like the Harts) or the Southern style.

Imagine a pitcher who was able to learn 4 good pitches before being called up, and got to build up from 120 to 150 to 180 to then 200 innings. He'd be much better prepared than a guy who went straight from high school to high A, and then got called up in September and was thrust into a make-it-or-break-it role in the big leagues.

Of course, Vince destroyed the territories, so it's largely he who benefits and suffers from their decline (although not nearly as much suffering as we do).

When I was deepest into wrestling, I enjoyed it because I could read up on what was happening in the WWF, NWA, AWA, Mid-South, the Deep South, and keep up on all the favorites there. I enjoyed it when Flair would cross over and put his title on the line against the Von Erichs, or Steve Williams, or any number of "heroes" of that particular organization. And you're right - it worked in keeping styles and identities "fresh", without being totally buried or foreign to the fan. The competition for the talent between organizations was a plus, as well. Ricky Steamboat made his name in the WWF, but made himself and the NWA a mint when he came over and beat Flair for the title. It's that kind of crossover that I miss, I guess. Going back and forth between Smackdown and Raw really doesn't do much for me, personally. It's just not interesting, especially knowing that any of these guys could turn up on the other show any given night.

Basically, you're saying Vince's desire to be the King of Wrestling has soured the product, and I agree. Like I said, I just poke my head in from time to time, but all I see are the same guys doing the same shit. The best thing that could happen for the WWE is to have the territories come back, and let some up and comers find their niche so the WWE could have some newness to it.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

When I was deepest into wrestling, I enjoyed it because I could read up on what was happening in the WWF, NWA, AWA, Mid-South, the Deep South, and keep up on all the favorites there. I enjoyed it when Flair would cross over and put his title on the line against the Von Erichs, or Steve Williams, or any number of "heroes" of that particular organization. And you're right - it worked in keeping styles and identities "fresh", without being totally buried or foreign to the fan. The competition for the talent between organizations was a plus, as well. Ricky Steamboat made his name in the WWF, but made himself and the NWA a mint when he came over and beat Flair for the title. It's that kind of crossover that I miss, I guess. Going back and forth between Smackdown and Raw really doesn't do much for me, personally. It's just not interesting, especially knowing that any of these guys could turn up on the other show any given night.

Basically, you're saying Vince's desire to be the King of Wrestling has soured the product, and I agree. Like I said, I just poke my head in from time to time, but all I see are the same guys doing the same shit. The best thing that could happen for the WWE is to have the territories come back, and let some up and comers find their niche so the WWE could have some newness to it.

Just imagine if every basketball team was filled with guys who were 6'6", weighed 210-215 pounds, and all had the exact same offensive game and defensive mindset.

Think about how boring that would be to watch. That's basically what the WWE is now. The only guys with even remotely innovative offense (Bourne, Morrison, RVD in his time) aren't and weren't given a chance to shine. There's no variety to the product. No tag division, no cruisers, no IC or midcard fueds of any interest.

The one guy at the top of the card who has a slightly different approach is Jeff Hardy, but he's basically only a spot monkey. He can't tell a story worth a damn.

[Reaper16]

LMAO
Thanks. I thought it was p. good. I was able to invoke both the poster Big Rock, who has defended HHH on this forum, and reference Kid Rock, who stunk up Reliant Stadium on Sunday.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Oh, and Benjamin was buried b/c of his tendency to botch moves at times and his inability to talk.

Carlito was buried for his attitude (supposedly) and the idea that he half-asses it at times (who knows).

HHH took great interest in burying Carlito in the Fall of '07 on one of the first stops of his Quadfest II: Burial, the Reunion.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

IIRC, They set up a match btw. Carlito and HHH where Carlito was allowed to use weapons and H couldn't, and Trips still squashed his ass.

[Bowser]

Oh, and Benjamin was buried b/c of his tendency to botch moves at times and his inability to talk.

Carlito was buried for his attitude (supposedly) and the idea that he half-asses it at times (who knows).

HHH took great interest in burying Carlito in the Fall of '07 on one of the first stops of his Quadfest II: Burial, the Reunion.

LMAO

Thanks for the info on those two. They seemed to be pushing both of those guys pretty hard and fast. Carlito was like top two or three villian with his dumbass apple bit, and Benjamin scored a couple of suprise pins on HHH. I half expected to hear that Hun-tor got vaginitis over the attention they were getting, and went crying to daddy-in-law about it.

[Bowser]

IIRC, They set up a match btw. Carlito and HHH where Carlito was allowed to use weapons and H couldn't, and Trips still squashed his ass.

I guess that's when you know for sure you've been demoted in importance in the WWE.

[Mecca]

Personally I think Triple H's greatest moment is his Wrestlemania match with Warrior.

[Boris The Great]

The Ultimate Warrior didnt draw big money. I am sure he sold a lot of tshirts and all, but his run on top in 1990 was a disaster. House show business tanked. The company went running right back to Hogan after less than a year.

Shawn Michaels didnt draw well in his year in top in 1996 either, but WWF was taking it hard from WCW and the nWo for most of that year. Warrior had no such excuse for his run. Also consider that Warrior completely collapsed from strength of the Hogan era, while the title run for Shawn was precceded by a year of Nash, one of the worst drawing champions of all time, and a few months of Bret, who also wasnt a terribly strong draw on top (though better than everyone else mentioned).

Over the course of Shawns career, he has probably made WWE twenty times the money Warrior ever did. To say otherwise is completely insane.

[Boris The Great]

Since Backlash 2006, Hunter has not been pinned with a finisher in a PPV, he lost twice last year on TV which was a result of interference.

Neither of those statements is true. Do you guys just believe everything you read or what?

[Mecca]

No offense to your opinion but there is not a more overrated wrestler in the history of wrestling when it comes to drawing and making money than Shawn Michaels. People like him because he can work matches. Shawn Michaels is the wrestler that was on top when they came very near going out of business...

It's of course cool to rip on Warrior but I will guarantee you this he has more name value appeal than pretty much 99% of wrestlers who have ever wrestled. And this idea that he was never a draw is pretty absurd, of course he tanked in comparison to Hogan in fucking 1990 most everyone would.

[Mecca]

Neither of those statements is true. Do you guys just believe everything you read or what?

Who pinned him with a finisher?

[Boris The Great]

No offense to your opinion but there is not a more overrated wrestler in the history of wrestling when it comes to drawing and making money than Shawn Michaels.

Its not an opinion, the amount of money people drew are verified facts. The Warrior drew little. So did Shawn, but he has made far more for WWE over his career than Warrior ever did. If nothing else, that should be common sense due to longevity.

And this idea that he was never a draw is pretty absurd, of course he tanked in comparison to Hogan in ****ing 1990 most everyone would.

He tanked in comparison to anyone. Randy Savage drew better as champ than Warrior did while Hogan was off making No Holes Barred and god knows what else.

Who pinned him with a finisher?

I only know this because I recently saw it, but Randy Orton RKOd him and pinned him in a tag match during the DX/Rated RKO feud. And I am just going off memory here, but didnt Edge spear him when he won the belt at Survivor Series?

[Mecca]

He lost to Edge because Jeff Hardy hit H with a chair...

I also don't recall him being pinned with an RKO, I recall him losing a last man standing match.

[Boris The Great]

I also don\'t recall him being pinned with an RKO, I recall him losing a last man standing match.

Different matches, one was a tag and one was the LMS. But that is the beauty of phrasing things so specifically, he wasnt *pinned* with a *finisher*. Doesnt mean he wasnt pinned. Doesnt mean he didnt lose because of a finisher. By that rule you could eliminate him tapping out to Cena at WM.

But phrasing it a certain way makes the argument look stronger than it is. Which is why such things are usually a waste of time.

[Mecca]

I think it's phrased that way to avoid this line..."he lost to Jeff Hardy" you know not factoring in that, that win was made to look like a total fluke and treated as such.

[Ultra Peanut]

Billy Kidman d. Hulk Hogan

[Mecca]

I just think it's funny to see people defend Trips the guy is our generations Hogan as far as his actions he's just never been close to the draw...

In his mind he wants to be Flair, so then he acts like Hogan to keep his spot while all the while he's Kevin Nash.

[Reaper16]

In his mind he wants to be Flair, so then he acts like Hogan to keep his spot while all the while he's Kevin Nash.
LMAO Holy shit.

[Boris The Great]

I think its phrased that way to avoid this line...he lost to Jeff Hardy you know not factoring in that, that win was made to look like a total fluke and treated as such.

lol, I didnt even remember that one.

I just think its funny to see people defend Trips the guy is our generations Hogan as far as his actions hes just never been close to the draw...

No offense to anyone here personally, but as much as you found the funny quotes after Mania from HHH fans and all, its also funny seeing angry HHH haters dredging up the same old stuff time and again. Its like someone going around posting endlessly about what a lousy draft pick Ryan Sims was. We know, but come on already.

I was reading back to old posts about this, and someone said it really well about how its like some people are endlessly trying to prove a point about HHH that doesnt need to be proved to anyone. And when they do it, they usually rely on the same he hasnt been *pinned* with a *finisher* type stuff to boost their case, when the case doesnt need boosting.

Its like the LAPD planting evidence on OJ when he did it anyway. The overall case is right, but the questionable method its presented in just makes it easier for people to dismiss it. People still raging against HHH after all this time are just turning people off to it.

[Boris The Great]

Also, if you want to talk about draws, you have to give HHH his due. He is one of the top in WWE history. He certainly hasnt been a draw in recent years to any noticable degree, but the peak financial years in WWE (2000-2001) came with HHH as the top heel.

People say, well business was hot because of Austin, but he was out that whole time with neck surgery. Then people say well it was Rock, and thats no doubt true to an extent, but it was when HHH and Stephanie took over as the evil couple that business really started to grow beyond the 98-99 Austin level. There was a period of 2-3 months after Austin left to have his surgery where there was concern about business cooling off. Then the McMahon-Helmsley got hot and business actually ended up improving from where it had been. So he definitely deserves his share of the credit.

No doubt his longevity helps his overall standing in a historical context, but I think Dave Meltzer has said that if HHH had retired in 2003 he would probably still be among the top 10 biggest draws WWE has had. So the idea that he hasnt been a draw is pretty untrue, at least in the big picture.

I like talking about the money stuff, someone set me up with another. I have lots of old Observer figures and stuff saved if anyone wants.

[Mecca]

Why is it that there will always be someone there to defend him then?

You can go onto wrestling forums and atleast half of the forum will defend him and go "you're just an H hater" etc.

And he should be raged against right now, he just beat the companies hottest young heel at the biggest show of the year when he didn't need to do that. Not to mention he has now killed 2 Mania crowds in mainevent matches...if he was anyone else he'd never get another one.

[Mecca]

Also, if you want to talk about draws, you have to give HHH his due. He is one of the top in WWE history. He certainly hasnt been a draw in recent years to any noticable degree, but the peak financial years in WWE (2000-2001) came with HHH as the top heel.

People say, well business was hot because of Austin, but he was out that whole time with neck surgery. Then people say well it was Rock, and thats no doubt true to an extent, but it was when HHH and Stephanie took over as the evil couple that business really started to grow beyond the 98-99 Austin level. There was a period of 2-3 months after Austin left to have his surgery where there was concern about business cooling off. Then the McMahon-Helmsley got hot and business actually ended up improving from where it had been. So he definitely deserves his share of the credit.

No doubt his longevity helps his overall standing in a historical context, but I think Dave Meltzer has said that if HHH had retired in 2003 he would probably still be among the top 10 biggest draws WWE has had. So the idea that he hasnt been a draw is pretty untrue, at least in the big picture.

I like talking about the money stuff, someone set me up with another. I have lots of old Observer figures and stuff saved if anyone wants.

Can that really be argued anymore? As soon as Austin and Rock were done the company went in the shitter, H was always the 3rd man riding their coat tails.

Lets not mention that when he was first put into the mainevent scene with his first title win the crowd shit on it and him basically saying "we don't want this guy". The WWE's reaction was to ram him down everyones throat and give him everything possible till people just accepted it.

[Boris The Great]

Why is it that there will always be someone there to defend him then?

I think its a combo of 3 things.

One, he has fans, and fans will always defend someone.

Two, like I said, the people still raging on and on about it turn people off.

And then three, a lot of the times people stretch the truth and halfass their arguments, when you could make plenty of valid cases about HHH without having to embellish it. And some people argue those points, like I did with that bit about how he hasnt been pinned. Its not true and I said so. That doesnt mean HHH is my favorite wrestler, but there is no sense arguing mistruths.

Not to mention he has now killed 2 Mania crowds in mainevent matches...if he was anyone else hed never get another one.

Did he kill the crowd, or was the crowd already spent? Its the chicken or the egg, and people who hate him will see it one way, and people who dont will see it another.

[Mecca]

I think its a combo of 3 things.

One, he has fans, and fans will always defend someone.

Two, like I said, the people still raging on and on about it turn people off.

And then three, a lot of the times people stretch the truth and halfass their arguments, when you could make plenty of valid cases about HHH without having to embellish it. And some people argue those points, like I did with that bit about how he hasnt been pinned. Its not true and I said so. That doesnt mean HHH is my favorite wrestler, but there is no sense arguing mistruths.



Did he kill the crowd, or was the crowd already spent? Its the chicken or the egg, and people who hate him will see it one way, and people who dont will see it another.

The one match show killed the crowd I guess....that whole Taker/Shawn burnt out the crowd card is being overplayed seeing as there was a match between them...and that guy Austin didn't seem to have a problem getting a reaction after it.

[Ultra Peanut]

Did he kill the crowd, or was the crowd already spent? The crowd wasn't spent for Austin, five minutes earlier.

What killed the crowd was a shitty match that offered nothing in the way of twists or turns other than a bland ref bump that meant nothing.

[Mecca]

The thing that really pisses me off about that is, Taker who I don't really personally like is 45 fucking years old and he can bring himself to put on a top match every single year at mania he can drag it out of himself on the biggest stage to perform.

Triple H can't even bring his broke dick ass up to have a good match when he's maineventing the biggest show of the year.

[Boris The Great]

Can that really be argued anymore? As soon as Austin and Rock were done the company went in the shitter, H was always the 3rd man riding their coat tails.

Its not an argument, these are business facts. WWE business was doing well from the Austin era, but began an upswing in early 2000 when the HHH-Stephanie marriage angle got hot. Austin was gone and Rock was already hot all through 1999, its not like something happened to make him even bigger.

Obviously HHH isnt in the league of Austin or Rock as a star, but to say he was never a draw just isnt true. And the real declining started when the WCW invasion failed, thats when business trends started to noticeably go south. Then the brand split weakened things because shows were only featuring half the talent. Rock and Austin were still regulars at that point, but obviously when they left it didnt help.

Lets not mention that when he was first put into the mainevent scene with his first title win the crowd shit on it and him basically saying we dont want this guy.

Yeah, and they kept at it and he ended up becoming a big star. The same thing happened to Rock when they first pushed him. Everyone hated him. Then they stuck him in the Nation and pushed him into a feud with Austin that nobody thought he deserved at the time. But by the next year, he was the future of the company.

A lot of guys have that story.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I just think it's funny to see people defend Trips the guy is our generations Hogan as far as his actions he's just never been close to the draw...

In his mind he wants to be Flair, so then he acts like Hogan to keep his spot while all the while he's Kevin Nash.

Saying he's like Hogan in keeping his spot is an insult to Hogan.

Hogan made all of his opponents look strong. Whether it was Bundy crushing his ribs, Savage whipping his ass in the "medical room" at SNME, or Orndorff, Andre, or Slaughter, every Hogan opponent was made out to be ridiculously strong up until Hogan got the blowfish cheeks going.

Who looks strong against Triple H? Jeff Hardy when he pins him with a rollup that Triple H then laughs about? Randy Orton, whose faction can barely take him 3-1 and then gets punted, sledged, and pedigreed? Edge?

Yeah, he put Dave Batista over big in 2005, therefore he's like Rock, he makes everyone look good.

[Mecca]

Saying he's like Hogan in keeping his spot is an insult to Hogan.

Hogan made all of his opponents look strong. Whether it was Bundy crushing his ribs, Savage whipping his ass in the "medical room" at SNME, or Orndorff, Andre, or Slaughter, every Hogan opponent was made out to be ridiculously strong up until Hogan got the blowfish cheeks going.

Who looks strong against Triple H? Jeff Hardy when he pins him with a rollup that Triple H then laughs about? Randy Orton, whose faction can barely take him 3-1 and then gets punted, sledged, and pedigreed? Edge?

Yeah, he put Dave Batista over big in 2005, therefore he's like Rock, he makes everyone look good.

Triple H is also the only heel who wasn't booked like a total pussy, the guy never "shows ass" so to speak.

[Mecca]

Also why every year at the HOF does one of the old guys have to suck off Triple H like he's the greatest thing ever?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Its not an argument, these are business facts. WWE business was doing well from the Austin era, but began an upswing in early 2000 when the HHH-Stephanie marriage angle got hot. Austin was gone and Rock was already hot all through 1999, its not like something happened to make him even bigger.

Obviously HHH isnt in the league of Austin or Rock as a star, but to say he was never a draw just isnt true. And the real declining started when the WCW invasion failed, thats when business trends started to noticeably go south. Then the brand split weakened things because shows were only featuring half the talent. Rock and Austin were still regulars at that point, but obviously when they left it didnt help.



Yeah, and they kept at it and he ended up becoming a big star. The same thing happened to Rock when they first pushed him. Everyone hated him. Then they stuck him in the Nation and pushed him into a feud with Austin that nobody thought he deserved at the time. But by the next year, he was the future of the company.

A lot of guys have that story.

That's just ridiculous

Rock's first push was awful and the fans crapped on him as a result.

After that, the Rock got over all by his goddamned self. He got himself over when he was in the Nation with maybe the greatest mic work in the history of the business.

Go look up his promo from the Monday before Summer Slam of '98 when he rips on Chyna, or when he gave gifts to the Nation.

However, Rocky's time as a full time wrestler ended the Monday after WM 17, after that, he never really worked a full schedule again, even though he came back later that summer.

And as far as being a draw, everyone in the fucking world was watching in 1999 and 2000, and the belt was flying back and forth. By the time Rock and Austin were on their way out, and HHH was the undisputed top guy, it was after WM 18, and shortly after that, and the horribly botched Invasion Angle (thanks Vince's Ego), business went in the shitter.

If HHH really was a draw, he would have gotten Raw 5's and 6's and not 3's once the business cooled off.

[Boris The Great]

Triple H is also the only heel who wasnt booked like a total pussy

A month ago in this thread people were talking about the great era of heels in WWE with Jericho, Edge, and Orton, and now they are all just pussies? The only one who might be arguable is Edge, but I would say he is more sneaky than a pussy. People buy him as a credible threat in the ring, which is what matters.

Regardless, what about Brock Lesnar? No one wants to remember, but Khali was world champ for a while. Then you have Kozlov. All were pushed like monsters.

Also why every year at the HOF does one of the old guys have to suck off Triple H like hes the greatest thing ever?

They still want jobs in 10 years.

[Mecca]

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dlkbAlKL2QM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dlkbAlKL2QM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

"The clique can't rule forever" maybe they can...

['Hamas' Jenkins]

A month ago in this thread people were talking about the great era of heels in WWE with Jericho, Edge, and Orton, and now they are all just pussies? The only one who might be arguable is Edge, but I would say he is more sneaky than a pussy. People buy him as a credible threat in the ring, which is what matters.

Regardless, what about Brock Lesnar? No one wants to remember, but Khali was world champ for a while. Then you have Kozlov. All were pushed like monsters.



They still want jobs in 10 years.

Brock Lesnar was given the biggest God push since Hogan, that's true.

Khali and Kozlov can't work and can't talk. Orton, Jericho, and Edge are three of the best guys in the company. There is an ocean of difference there.

And Edge is booked like a pussy. When was the last time he had a clean defense of his title on a PPV? The dude has won 8 titles, every time through nefarious means, and never just goes over anyone clean.

Orton was just bitched out hardcore over the course of two months. Yeah, he got to punt Vince and Shane (of course Shane gave him everything he could handle) and took out Stephanie, but every time he went up against H, he was either getting tossed out of windows or his faction was getting buried.

[Boris The Great]

Thats just ridiculous

Rocks first push was awful and the fans crapped on him as a result.

After that, the Rock got over all by his goddamned self. He got himself over when he was in the Nation with maybe the greatest mic work in the history of the business.

Go look up his promo from the Monday before Summer Slam of 98 when he rips on Chyna

Which was well after his feud with Austin that I mentioned. I am talking about their IC title feud in 1997. Rock had been put in the Nation and was doing nothing. The Nation was doing Gang Warz with DOA and Los Boricuas. They couldnt have been less important.

Austin was feuding with Owen and the Hart Foundation, but they all left after Survivor Series and Austin needed a new opponent. He got Rocky. Almost to a man, the reaction at the time was like why is Rocky getting another chance? Austin was the hottest guy in the business and they were sticking him with this guy?

But in that feud he became The Rock and turned into a star. Sometimes guys get hot right away, some times it takes another try, and some guys never make it no matter how many times they get pushed (Billy Gunn leaps to mind).

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Which was well after his feud with Austin that I mentioned. I am talking about their IC title feud in 1997. Rock had been put in the Nation and was doing nothing. The Nation was doing Gang Warz with DOA and Los Boricuas. They couldnt have been less important.

Austin was feuding with Owen and the Hart Foundation, but they all left after Survivor Series and Austin needed a new opponent. He got Rocky. Almost to a man, the reaction at the time was like why is Rocky getting another chance? Austin was the hottest guy in the business and they were sticking him with this guy?

But in that feud he became The Rock and turned into a star. Sometimes guys get hot right away, some times it takes another try, and some guys never make it no matter how many times they get pushed (Billy Gunn leaps to mind).

And look up his promo when he first calls himself "The best damn Intercontinental Champ there ever was."

It was a textbook example of how to cut an egotistical promo without relying on cheap heat.

[Mecca]

Orton is booked like he should never be in a fight, he is made to look like he's a lilly soft guy who can't hang with anyone in a fair fight.

He got beat up by Shane McMahon for christ sake.

[Mecca]

Which was well after his feud with Austin that I mentioned. I am talking about their IC title feud in 1997. Rock had been put in the Nation and was doing nothing. The Nation was doing Gang Warz with DOA and Los Boricuas. They couldnt have been less important.

Austin was feuding with Owen and the Hart Foundation, but they all left after Survivor Series and Austin needed a new opponent. He got Rocky. Almost to a man, the reaction at the time was like why is Rocky getting another chance? Austin was the hottest guy in the business and they were sticking him with this guy?

But in that feud he became The Rock and turned into a star. Sometimes guys get hot right away, some times it takes another try, and some guys never make it no matter how many times they get pushed (Billy Gunn leaps to mind).

Any guy in the company would have been over with what they gave to H, he wasn't given time to change his character....he was given Stephanie McMahon and a ton of camera time.

But I always enjoyed how some guys would just be pushed down everyones throat while other guys got once chance and were deemed failures to never be heard from again.

[Boris The Great]

And Edge is booked like a pussy. When was the last time he had a clean defense of his title on a PPV? The dude has won 8 titles, every time through nefarious means, and never just goes over anyone clean.

I just think of it as sneaky with Edge. People think he can win. He got into the Elimination Chamber through shady means, but he won it.

I think if someone is a pussy, nobody thinks they can win without help. Santino, now thats a pussy.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I remember an interview that Bret did with "Off the Record" about six years ago when he said that he had nothing but the highest regard for Austin and Rock, and said when he first saw Rock he said "this is the guy who was going to take my spot", and when asked about H he said that no one ever really considered him one of the boys and always felt like he was an ass-kiss.

[Mecca]

I think WWE heels are booked in pussified fashion because they feel it's the easiest way to keep someone heel. The young male demo generally won't overly cheer for someone they think is a pussy.

If you make a guy a badass heel half the crowd is going to cheer for him.

[Mecca]

I remember an interview that Bret did with "Off the Record" about six years ago when he said that he had nothing but the highest regard for Austin and Rock, and said when he first saw Rock he said "this is the guy who was going to take my spot", and when asked about H he said that no one ever really considered him one of the boys and always felt like he was an ass-kiss.

That just goes back to why Rock basically said he'd never come back to work Michaels, when Rock was given the IC title run early, HHH and Shawn thought Rock was taking his spot and flipped out and it involved Michaels telling Vince "this guy Rock, he's not shit, he'll never be shit, you should just fire him now" and apparently the Rock has never forgotten that.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

That just goes back to why Rock basically said he'd never come back to work Michaels, when Rock was given the IC title run early, HHH and Shawn thought Rock was taking his spot and flipped out and it involved Michaels telling Vince "this guy Rock, he's not shit, he'll never be shit, you should just fire him now" and apparently the Rock has never forgotten that.

That and Bret and Rocky were close and he was really pissed about Montreal.

[Mecca]

I think it was pretty obvious that Triple H had/has a personal issue with the rock and always has...

The Rock went out of his way to put Hurricane over and as soon as he left, H buried him.

[BigRock]

I was reading back to old posts about this, and someone said it really well about how its like some people are endlessly trying to prove a point about HHH that doesnt need to be proved to anyone. And when they do it, they usually rely on the same he hasnt been *pinned* with a *finisher* type stuff to boost their case, when the case doesnt need boosting.

THAT WAS ME. Of course, I'm just the guy defending HHH, durr furr hurdy dur.

If you're going to say stuff, make it credible. Have some objectivity. Make it so a blind guy can't find his way through all the holes. That's my entire point and has always been my point, whether it's about HHH or anything. Why is that so hard? It's really not.

If one of youse saw some dubious exaggeration or whatever about a draft prospect, you'd be all over it like stink on a monkey. I see the same dubious exaggerations and such for YEARS and I finally get to where I'm like "yeah, well, that's not actually true" and suddenly I'm carrying Hunter's bags*.

This does not mean I care to see him on my TV, going over more talented younger superstars of wrestling. I hope we can put this issue to rest.

(*Which I would. 'Cause then I could probably carry Stephanie's bags. And then HIT ME VINCE

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5672/77461572te579erwvincemo.gif)

Its not an opinion, the amount of money people drew are verified facts. The Warrior drew little. So did Shawn, but he has made far more for WWE over his career than Warrior ever did. If nothing else, that should be common sense due to longevity.

Meltzer put out a list of WWE's all-time top money makers just a little while ago. HBK was on the bottom end of the top ten. I don't think Warrior was in the top 25.

Hogan was off making No Holes Barred

tee hee. holes

The Rock went out of his way to put Hurricane over

Seriously? Do you remember that match?

[BigRock]

Meltzer put out a list of WWE's all-time top money makers just a little while ago. HBK was on the bottom end of the top ten. I don't think Warrior was in the top 25.

I stand corrected. Warrior was in the top 25. He's #24, tied with Batista.

HBK is #10 on the nose, incidentally.

[Swanman]

Here's the problem: You don't have territories to build guys any more. There isn't any place for people to ply their craft. Furthermore, the territory system would teach guys to wrestle different styles, whether or not it was Strong Style (like the Harts) or the Southern style.

Imagine a pitcher who was able to learn 4 good pitches before being called up, and got to build up from 120 to 150 to 180 to then 200 innings. He'd be much better prepared than a guy who went straight from high school to high A, and then got called up in September and was thrust into a make-it-or-break-it role in the big leagues.

Of course, Vince destroyed the territories, so it's largely he who benefits and suffers from their decline (although not nearly as much suffering as we do).

I'd say now, if you were to see what the best comparison to the territories is, it would be the various Independent feds. ROH is obviously at the top, with a mix of different styles and sizes (pure wrestling, brawling, comedy stuff, etc.). PWG out in Cali is like a mini-ROH but focuses a little more on comedy and blood feuds. CZW out in Philly is like a wannabe hardcore ECW with a little pure wrestling thrown in. And there's Chikara, mainly focused on really goofy characters and high-flyers. There are many others (IWA-MS, NWA, etc.).

The problem is, the indies could be a great farm system for WWE and TNA, but the talent doesn't get used properly. Stars of the indies that go to TNA end up being being booked in a completely retarded fashion (mainly look at Samoa Joe's recent run). As for WWE, Vince does not like performers that he did not create, so he re-names these guys (CM Punk being an exception to the rule) and gives them characters they weren't used to portraying. And while many of the wrestlers in the indies are great overall performers (Danielson, Aries, Quackenbush, etc.), they aren't big lumbering jerkoffs, so Vince doesn't think they will draw.

[chiefscafan]

Yeah got to admit I really respected steamboat back in the day. But after hearing the story about a young wrestler on the plane I thought to myself oh god it's HHH again. I lost a little respect for him. When I saw that kolo b ware got in I thought man he really must have kissed vinces a@@ to get in. I like HHH but it does look like everyone kisses his butt.

[King_Chief_Fan]

Yeah got to admit I really respected steamboat back in the day. But after hearing the story about a young wrestler on the plane I thought to myself oh god it's HHH again. I lost a little respect for him. When I saw that kolo b ware got in I thought man he really must have kissed vinces a@@ to get in. I like HHH but it does look like everyone kisses his butt.

this is play...it is all pretend....it is all staged....it is not real

[beach tribe]

I stand corrected. Warrior was in the top 25. He's #24, tied with Batista.

HBK is #10 on the nose, incidentally.

You've got to be kidding. Warrior is a wrestling Icon. Batista is an over roided freak with 0 lasting power.

[Reaper16]

this is play...it is all pretend....it is all staged....it is not real
He's talking about backstage politics.

[chiefscafan]

I know it's fake but the politics are real and HHH appears to be great at it.

[chiefscafan]

By the way talking bout koko in the hall of fame what did he do in his career to deserve this honor?

[unothadeal]

By the way talking bout koko in the hall of fame what did he do in his career to deserve this honor?

He was black.

[Ultra Peanut]

Did you guys see that the HOF speeches were all written by WWE, and that they played music to get Bill Watts off the stage after he went completely off-script? Jesus Christ. Classy.

So that explains Steamboat's HHH plane story, CA.

this is play...it is all pretend....it is all staged....it is not realShut the fuck up, Donny! You're out of your element!

[Reaper16]

Did you guys see that the HOF speeches were all written by WWE, and that they played music to get Bill Watts off the stage after he went completely off-script? Jesus Christ. Classy.

So that explains Steamboat's HHH plane story, CA.

That's disgusting.

[Ultra Peanut]

He was black.<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CUI0tm8A65E&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CUI0tm8A65E&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[unothadeal]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CUI0tm8A65E&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CUI0tm8A65E&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Haha. Crazy racists. Good theme though back in the day.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gdT1clsLsYs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gdT1clsLsYs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Swanman]

Just saw the latest ROH videowire, here it is:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cKUO3QvqCdU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cKUO3QvqCdU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Right at the very end, they have a preview of Joey Ryan coming into ROH. They are really starting to stockpile talent right now. In the past several months, they have added:

D Lo Brown
Eddie Kingston
Joey Ryan
Jimmy Rave
Colt Cabana

Add in there that eventually Paul London most likely will come back. I imagine they will lose a few guys to WWE or TNA by summertime but they still have quite a roster even if they take some hits.

[Boris The Great]

Did you guys see that the HOF speeches were all written by WWE, and that they played music to get Bill Watts off the stage after he went completely off-script? Jesus Christ. Classy.

Where did you read that? I heard that because they wanted to cut things down this year, they had the HOFers work with the writers to hone their speeches. But its not like they just handed them scripts to read. And a few reports said Watts got cut off because he went way past the time limit, and they were actually flashing the :00 clock at him for several minutes.

Supposedly they realized that cutting everyones time was a lousy idea, so hopefully that is the end of that.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

While we're at it, why not discuss some backstage fights of yore, like Jericho-Goldberg, Steiner-Page, or my personal fave, Steve Blackman crescent kicking JBL and knocking his ass clean out.

[chiefscafan]

When I watched it on USA they only showed last two speeches how did you guys see the entire speeches?

[BigRock]

You've got to be kidding. Warrior is a wrestling Icon. Batista is an over roided freak with 0 lasting power.

Batista and Warrior are a funny comparision. I'm guessing that most of the people who remember Warrior fondly were, generally speaking, somewhere in the 8-15 age range during his hayday. At least I was.

Today, as older sophisticated informed intelligent internet newsletter fans, Batista is just a juiced up dude who can't work. But that's exactly how the informed newsletter crowd of that era saw Warrior. If you ever get to read some old Meltzer stuff where he'd go on about Warrior, it's hilarious.

[BigRock]

While we're at it, why not discuss some backstage fights of yore, like Jericho-Goldberg, Steiner-Page, or my personal fave, Steve Blackman crescent kicking JBL and knocking his ass clean out.

It wasn't backstage (I think it was on an overseas flight), but for my money, the one where Bradshaw punched out Michael Hayes and then X-Pac cut off Hayes' ponytail and ran up and down the plane aisle, swinging the hair above his head, whooping like an Indian, is tough to beat.

When I watched it on USA they only showed last two speeches how did you guys see the entire speeches?

They always stream the live show on WWE.com, except for the speeches they show on TV. There's probably a download of it somewhere or other.

[Ultra Peanut]

Styles vs. Bradshaw is good for pure shock value.

[BigRock]

Bradshaw is in all the best stories. I can't believe he's gone.

[BigRock]

HIS NAME'S BARNEY
HE EATS PIZZA

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zI8hWJ1zbxs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zI8hWJ1zbxs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

['Hamas' Jenkins]

It wasn't backstage (I think it was on an overseas flight), but for my money, the one where Bradshaw punched out Michael Hayes and then X-Pac cut off Hayes' ponytail and ran up and down the plane aisle, swinging the hair above his head, whooping like an Indian, is tough to beat.



They always stream the live show on WWE.com, except for the speeches they show on TV. There's probably a download of it somewhere or other.

Actually the Blackman fight happened at a luggage carousel, and Hayes being demulleted was when he passed out drunk on the Plane Ride from Hell, IIRC.

But Peanut is right, Styles v. Layfield was the best.

[Mecca]

Batista and Warrior are a funny comparision. I'm guessing that most of the people who remember Warrior fondly were, generally speaking, somewhere in the 8-15 age range during his hayday. At least I was.

Today, as older sophisticated informed intelligent internet newsletter fans, Batista is just a juiced up dude who can't work. But that's exactly how the informed newsletter crowd of that era saw Warrior. If you ever get to read some old Meltzer stuff where he'd go on about Warrior, it's hilarious.

The only thing about that though is at that time, 95% of the WWE roster, especially the face side was juiced up dudes who couldn't work.

[Ultra Peanut]

Accidental Oxy overdose.

Why did it have to be Test and not Rush Limbaugh?

[unothadeal]

Accidental Oxy overdose.

Why did it have to be Test and not Rush Limbaugh?

Died from too much acne. :shake:

['Hamas' Jenkins]

So, I watched the ME from 25 again, and it's even worse the second time through. I don't know who was responsible for booking the match's big spots, and I would assume that HHH was the one who called the match.

It was slow, plodding, and nonsensical.

There was no psychology, no pace, and it seemed like everything they did was at 1/4 speed. The bad thing is that the crowd wanted to pop for stuff (and they did for Orton's dropkick counter and his hangman DDT), but there just wasn't any story telling in the match at all.

It was like the complete opposite of a Bret Hart match. At no point did HHH look like he was in danger of losing, so the crowd never got up in arms for the possibility of a surprise. Even the moment of his greatest weakness (RKO #2) occurred after a ref bump, so as soon as that happened, any half-savvy fan knew that not only would Orton not pin him there, but that he was going to lose the match.

WWE rule #1 seems to be if you hit your finisher during a ref bump, you lose.

And after the match ended, I watched the crowd reaction (as I was too disgusted to do it the first time). It was even less impressive than I'd remembered. Most of the people turned and ran for the exits, and those who did stay mostly sat down. Some stood up, but there was hardly any applause.

Just an awful match for a PPV, let alone a WM Main Event.

[BigRock]

The only thing about that though is at that time, 95% of the WWE roster, especially the face side was juiced up dudes who couldn't work.

That's why Warrior being singled out is so funny. He was that bad.

[Boris The Great]

What did Meltzer used to call him, the Anabolic Warrior? lol

['Hamas' Jenkins]

What did Meltzer used to call him, the Anabolic Warrior? lol

I knew a dude who was a world powerlifting champion who lifted with him one time when the WWF came through doing a house show.

He said he was the most physically fit person he'd ever seen in his life. That always carried a lot of weight with me given the background of the person who said it.

[Ultra Peanut]

Over in the wacky world of TNA, Danny Bonaduce vs. Eric Young is apparently going to be a dark match. Not that anyone wanted to see it, but this says it well:

Holy fucking shit.

They actually paid Danny Bonaduce to wrestle, didn't build his appearance on the air, didn't feature his likeness in any promotional material that I saw and are not going to air the match he's wrestling in.

This actually happened.

[Ultra Peanut]

Watch this fat Canadian stiff Inoki and get knocked the fuck out for doing so:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9lXAGZtMxU8&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9lXAGZtMxU8&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Watch this fat Canadian stiff Inoki and get knocked the fuck out for doing so:

<object width="425" height="344">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9lXAGZtMxU8&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

That is such an awesome clip. It was in one of the original botchamanias, IIRC.

[unothadeal]

R.I.P. Great Antonio

Another one for the list.

[keg in kc]

Hope you losers remembered the draft. My DVR sure didn't.

The first five minutes have been TNAriffic. Let's bring out the faces and have them argue.

[Mecca]

Nothing makes me happier than seeing Blahtista come back.

[keg in kc]

Two interesting matches at least, Cena/Swagger and Misterio/Bourne

[Ultra Peanut]

Vince, Shane, and Stephanie are all tougher than Batista.

Dude has a belly button tattoo, after all.

[chiefs1111]

Excuse Me!

[Ultra Peanut]

Two interesting matches at least, Cena/Swagger and Misterio/BourneSWAGGER WINZ! SWAGGER WINZ!

That would be my biggest markout since... I dunno, a long time. Y2J's debut?

It would totally top Punk cashing in or Edge winning the elimination chamber at No Way Out. Orton beating Trips at No Mercy 07 was probably my biggest markout since I started watching regularly again in 2006.

[Mecca]

I think everytime they do one of these shows they do a Mysterio Bourne match is that their smark match of the night?

[keg in kc]

SWAGGER WINZ! SWAGGER WINZ!

That would be my biggest markout since... I dunno, a long time. Y2J's debut?That would be awesome on so many levels.

[Mecca]

I'm sure they'd give Swagger a win over Cena after he didn't get a Mania match because they don't think he's ready for live TV.

[keg in kc]

I think everytime they do one of these shows they do a Mysterio Bourne match is that their smark match of the night?Hey, at least they're not having a four-way against Mark Henry and Kane. Count your blessings...

[Ultra Peanut]

Holy fuck, this is going to be awesome.

[keg in kc]

I'm sure they'd give Swagger a win over Cena after he didn't get a Mania match because they don't think he's ready for live TV.I'm surprised they're giving him a match at all, much less against Cena.

[keg in kc]

The best thing would be ECW winning every match tonight and then drafting all the Divas to become the new GLOW.

[Ultra Peanut]

Using a three-hour Raw as one giant rib on the developmental brand sounds like a pretty WWE thing to do.

[Mecca]

Even Bourne looks like he ripped off the Motor City Machineguns look...is he like the 3rd gun?

[Mecca]

Well damn they pretty much didn't give that match much time.

[chiefs1111]

time for the first pick

[keg in kc]

Yeah, let's job out an up-and-comer for Misterio.

[Mecca]

Watch as everyone gets moved back to Raw...

[Ultra Peanut]

WWE is turning into TNA.

[keg in kc]

Using a three-hour Raw as one giant rib on the developmental brand sounds like a pretty WWE thing to do.Yes. Yes it does.

[keg in kc]

MVP on Raw could be fun.

[Mecca]

MVP is coming to Raw, that locks up Mysterio back to smackdown betls and all.

[Ultra Peanut]

STRAIGHT UP BALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLIN'

Rey to SD confirmed.

[keg in kc]

It's such a shock that they had his entrance music ready.

These production guys are fast!!!

[keg in kc]

Fuck. Sorry guys, this one's my fault, for mentioning Kane.

[Mecca]

I seriously think they'll go back like it was before where basically everyone is on Raw while Smackdown has 2 guys and ECW has no one.

[chiefs1111]

MVP is coming to Raw, that locks up Mysterio back to smackdown betls and all.

Yup

[Mecca]

Mysterio was a major suckfest on Raw anyway they used him even worse than the Smackdown bookers.

[Ultra Peanut]

MVP on Raw could be fun.It's more likely that the US title becomes what the IC title is now, and MVP gets lost in the shuffle because they're terrified of pulling the trigger on the next generation.

[Mecca]

It's more likely that the US title becomes what the IC title is now, and MVP gets lost in the shuffle because they're terrified of pulling the trigger on the next generation.

That probably has something to do with that guy with the H's in his name that still thinks he is the fucking man.

It'll be stunning when he gets moved back to Raw I'm sure.

[chiefs1111]

lol Vince is going to be on ESPN tomorrow

[keg in kc]

Aaaand Raw starts 2-0.

[Mecca]

And Kendrick gets to do a job so Raw gets yet another pick...

This is looking pretty typical of the WWE drafts, Raw important other bands not.

[Mecca]

And now they have Kane kill the big black guy, WTF?

[chiefs1111]

Kane taking no crap lol

[chiefs1111]

well that was quick

[Ultra Peanut]

WWE, BUILDIN' NEW STARS

[Mecca]

Yep Raw is gonna take everyone while the other shows get hosed.

[chiefs1111]

gee what a surprise

[Ultra Peanut]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Mecca]

Maybe they'll do like they did that one year and take all of Smackdowns maineventers then give them back...Torrie Wilson.

[keg in kc]

I had a thought, and then lost it by the time I walked from the couch to the pc.

Oh, yeah. Means a lot to have Big Show back on Raw. It's been days and days since he was last on the show.

This would make so much more sense in the fall, when they haven't had all the main eventers on every program.

[chiefs1111]

so who else will be coming to Raw from smack down tonight I wonder geez

[keg in kc]

CM Punk to smackdown, I'm calling it now.

[chiefs1111]

Maybe they'll do like they did that one year and take all of Smackdowns maineventers then give them back...Torrie Wilson.

I had a hard time watching SmackDown as it was. Now it's going to be horrible..

[Reaper16]

CM Punk to smackdown, I'm calling it now.
I'm calling Kofi Kingston to Smackdown.

[Mecca]

so who else will be coming to Raw from smack down tonight I wonder geez

Anyone who's a maineventer...I think Cena has to go since they can't have both champs on 1 show but outside of that Smackdown is gonna have like nobody.

[keg in kc]

Just please please please draft JR back to Raw so I don't have to listen to cole anymore.

[chiefs1111]

CM Punk to smackdown, I'm calling it now.

wouldn't shock me at all

[Mecca]

I had a hard time watching SmackDown as it was. Now it's going to be horrible..

They always do that, it really makes no sense to me how they are the same company yet they treat the other shows like bastard children to Raw being the favorite son.

[keg in kc]

This is totally set for one of the heels to lay down for shane so orton can destroy him next week.

But I don't think WWE creative is that...creative.

[Mecca]

Hey there was a time I really dug Smackdown, it involved Edge being awesome and not having to see any H's.

[RUSH]

Randy Orton is the friggin man

[keg in kc]

I'm calling Kofi Kingston to Smackdown.I'm calling Chavo to Florida Championship.

[Mecca]

Watch Smackdown is going to be Cena and Edge feuding for another year.

[keg in kc]

Let's have Cena mock Swagger for all these Raw fans who don't have any idea who he is.

[keg in kc]

Watch Smackdown is going to be Cena and Edge feuding for another year.I hear edge may be on the shelf for a bit. Not sure if it's true or not.

[Mecca]

Let's have Cena mock Swagger for all these Raw fans who don't have any idea who he is.

Of course, he's from ECW so he's a bum that can't hang.

[keg in kc]

And up next, a diva match, or as I like to call it "time to ignore raw for 10 minutes, unless i hear the words 'puppies' or 'wardrobe malfunction'".

[chiefs1111]

Watch Smackdown is going to be Cena and Edge feuding for another year.

:Lin::Lin:

[Mecca]

Here is the match so the 14 year olds watching have something to jerkoff to.

[BryanBusby]

Piss break this early in the night? Thanks for looking out Vince.

[chiefs1111]

Time to go make a snack

[Mecca]

Maybe it's just me but I find Michelle McCool utterly unattractive.

Maryse on the other hand, the things I would eat out of her ass.

[Mecca]

If Raw takes this one I'm going to bust up at the absurdity.

[keg in kc]

I wish Melina would do that on my face.

[keg in kc]

Maybe it's just me but I find Michelle McCool utterly unattractive..Not just you.

[keg in kc]

Smackdown will win here and get the returning Gillberg.

[Mecca]

Mickie James gives me a craving for Arbys.

[Mecca]

I also like how the announcers act like their on a team during the draft, it's so retarded.

[Ultra Peanut]

I love how JR isn't even saying anything. THE MAN DON'T GIVE A FUCK

[chiefs1111]

smackdown wins lol

[Mecca]

Michelle McTaker with the pin, stunner there. She gets to look awesome on the 3 hour Raw, Taker obviously taped his fists by the bookers.

[Mecca]

Melina......see Smackdown is going to get fucked hard.

[Reaper16]

lol