Official Huard Sucks/Start Croyle thread

[ILChief]

Damon sucks. Let's play Croyle.

No need for 100 threads. Everyone pile on Damon here.


Damon nut-swingers need not post

[banyon]

I think we need 100 threads. It makes Hootie and GoChiefs feel needed.

[ILChief]

I think we need 100 threads. It makes Hootie and GoChiefs feel needed.

It is their mission for the Chiefs never to develop a franchise QB. To continue to recycle journeyman backups in their mid-30s.

[FloridaMan88]

This column from JoPo from a few weeks back (which is a repost but certain Wargarbage Illustrated homers haven't gotten the message yet) pretty much defines the theme of this thread...


http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/316419.html


JOE POSNANSKI COMMENTARY
Chiefs don’t have green thumb when it comes to growing their own QBs

Today was going to be the big day. Finally. Today, after so many years of messing around with every geriatric, shuffleboard-playing, used-up old quarterback they could find, the Kansas City Chiefs were going to start a young quarterback, their very own quarterback, Brodie Croyle. Finally.

Look: Everything is aligned. The Chiefs are playing at home. They are playing a Cincinnati Bengals defense that, with all due respect, has not stopped anybody. The Chiefs’ offense is not just in need of a spark, it is in need of the electric paddles. Kansas City has scored 63 points all year, the lowest total in the conference. Meanwhile, quarterback emeritus Damon Huard was bruised and battered in the last game and had to be pulled before the end.

Yes, this was the time. Today was going to be the day. Finally.

And then, suddenly, it wasn’t the day.

“Damon Huard will start,” Chiefs coach Herm Edwards announced early in the week. When asked why, he said it was because Huard seemed to be healthy. But that did not answer the larger question: Why?

As in: “Why have the Chiefs never in their history drafted and developed a successful quarterback?”

As in: “Why is it that in the long era of president/general manager/CEO Carl Peterson, no Chiefs draft pick has started even a single game at quarterback?”

As in: “Why are the Chiefs, who have not won a single playoff game in a dozen years and have barely shown an offensive pulse this year, so scared to go with a quarterback who was born after Ronald Reagan became president?”

One thing is clear. Today, when Damon Huard starts, the Kansas City Chiefs will continue one of the most amazing streaks in the history of the National Football League. This game will mark the 323rd consecutive game that the Chiefs will start a quarterback they did not draft. Think about that. The last time a Chiefs’ draft pick started a regular season NFL game was early in the doomed 1987 season, when Todd Blackledge started at Seattle.

Brodie Croyle was 4 years old.

•••

One good thing about the Chiefs’ bizarre quarterback history is that it leads to some absolutely stunning bits of trivia. Here are a few for your Sunday morning enjoyment:

•Before Brodie Croyle, the last Chiefs draft pick to complete a single pass was — tight end Tony Gonzalez, who threw a 40-yarder in 2001.

•The most successful drafted quarterback of the entire Peterson era is actually a receiver, Danan Hughes, who completed both his pass attempts for 55 yards. This is more yardage than draft picks Mike Elkins, Matt Blundin, Pat Barnes, Steve Matthews and James Killian had combined for the Chiefs.

•The Chiefs have not started a quarterback this millennium who was younger than 30.

•The last Chiefs-drafted quarterback to start the majority of games in a season was Steve Fuller in 1980.

•People tend to think of first-round pick Blackledge as a bust — and certainly he was the mutt of that 1983 NFL draft that included Dan Marino and John Elway — but he actually has the best winning percentage of any quarterback ever drafted by the Chiefs (he went 13-11). No other Chiefs draft pick has a winning record.

•••

So back to the bigger question: Why has it been this way? Why have the Chiefs never in their history managed to develop even a single winning quarterback?

Well, you probably don’t want to go all the way back to the 1970s, just after Len Dawson retired (Dawson, incidentally, was drafted by Pittsburgh). No, let’s focus for now on the Peterson time, because the Chiefs’ refusal to start Croyle this week — even with 34-year-old, lifelong backup Damon Huard beat up — suggests that there’s an addiction going on. The Chiefs are addicted to aging, veteran quarterbacks.

We need an intervention.

In the late 1980s and early 1990s, most people seemed to think that the Chiefs were going with these creaky veterans (Steve DeBerg, Ron Jaworski, Dave Krieg, Joe Montana, Steve Bono, Rich Gannon, etc.) because of coach Marty Schottenheimer. The sense was that Schottenheimer wanted a quarterback he could count on, someone who had seen it all, a steadying influence, all that. The sense was that he could not trust a young quarterback.

But you know what? Schottenheimer’s history as a coach in other cities tells a very different story. In Cleveland, he started 22-year-old Bernie Kosar at quarterback and went to two AFC championship games. In San Diego, he started 23-year-old Drew Brees and then, just a few years later, went with 25-year-old Philip Rivers. The simple truth is that Schottenheimer has, throughout his career, looked for a talented young quarterback to build around.

Except in Kansas City.

So what does this tell you? Well, it says that Carl Peterson is the true architect of the Chiefs’ bizarre strategy of going from one veteran quarterback to the next, year after year, decade after decade. In his 19 drafts, Peterson has never taken a quarterback in the first round. Not once. He has not taken a quarterback in the second round in 15 years. He has only once taken a quarterback in the third round, and that’s Croyle. Meanwhile, Peterson has brought in a whole slew of declining starters or NFL backup quarterback like those mentioned above — and also Trent Green, Warren Moon, Elvis Grbac, Todd Collins and, yeah, Damon Huard. It’s a pretty clear pattern.

This, I believe, gets to the heart of how Peterson believes you win football games. For him, it comes down to making fewer mistakes than the other team. It comes down to winning your home games, stealing a few on the road, and putting yourself in position to make the playoffs. It comes down to having a dependable quarterback who has been through the wars and won’t try anything rash or absurd.

To sum up, I think it comes down to fear of the unknown. Peterson is a conservative man who, like most successful businessmen, needs to feel in control of his surroundings. He does not like change. He does not like what he sees as unnecessary risk. And he does not like the idea of handing the keys to his franchise over to some kid quarterback who might throw the ball into quadruple coverage with the game on the line.

The interesting thing is Peterson now has a coach in Herm Edwards who sees things very differently. Edwards’ success took off in New York when he went with a young quarterback, Chad Pennington. So Edwards believes in youth. It was Edwards who determined that the Chiefs needed to move on from 37-year-old Trent Green (Peterson, to the end, seemed to think that Green was the best option for this season). It was Edwards who desperately wanted to start Croyle as this season began (Croyle’s preseason struggles convinced him that it was too soon).

And now it is Edwards who drops constant hints, week after week, that he is about ready to make the big move to Croyle. He’s about ready. He’s close to pulling the trigger. He’s really close. Something is holding him back, though.

•••

Here are a few more trivia bits about Chiefs-drafted quarterbacks:

•The Chiefs, in their history, have drafted three quarterbacks in the first round: Pete Beathard (1964 AFL Draft), Steve Fuller (1979) and Blackledge (1983). Combined, the three started 67 games — barely more than four seasons — and went 27-40.

Only one quarterback drafted by the Chiefs has started a playoff game for them. That is Blackledge, who started one in 1986.

•Mike Livingston, a second-round pick out of SMU in 1968, threw for more than 11,000 yards with the Chiefs. This is more than twice as many yards as any other Chiefs draft pick.

•From 1989-2006 — until Brodie Croyle — Carl Peterson draft picks completed a grand total of five passes. That would be two by Hughes, two by Matt Blundin, one by Gonzalez.

•••

You more than get the point by now. The Chiefs under Peterson have kept borrowing and stealing old quarterbacks from other teams, year after year, in the hope that they would play smart and give the Chiefs the best chance to win.

And it is possible to win a Super Bowl with a borrowed quarterback. It has happened a handful of times, most recently when Brad Johnson led Tampa Bay to victory in the 2002 season. There are other examples. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl in Baltimore. Doug Williams won a Super Bowl in Washington.

But as you can see, there haven’t been many. Teams that win it all, most of the time, are teams that develop their own quarterback. Teams that are Super Bowl contenders year after year are, almost without exception, led by their own quarterback.

So how do you develop one of these young quarterbacks? Nobody says it’s easy. The franchise quarterbacks are usually very high draft picks — Peyton Manning was the first pick overall, so was John Elway, so was Troy Aikman, so was today’s opponent Carson Palmer — and the Chiefs have not had many high draft picks the last 20 years.

But not all the great quarterbacks are out of reach. You also have to let go and take a chance. Joe Montana was a third-round pick. New England’s Tom Brady was a sixth-round pick. Dallas’ Tony Romo was not even drafted. Brett Favre was a second-round pick and he was traded away after one year. Kurt Warner stocked groceries at Hy-Vee.

Nobody knows if Brodie Croyle is the answer. But this is exactly the point: Nobody knows. Croyle has a freakishly strong arm. He has a gunslinger’s mentality. He has made some fabulous throws. He has also made some terrible throws and shown questionable judgment. But all of that was in the preseason.

And none of that matters. People around the NFL will tell you that until you play him in real games, under real pressure, with real wins and losses at stake, nobody will know what Croyle is all about. The Chiefs know that they will have to find out sooner or later.

“Brodie is our future, I think we all understand that,” Edwards says. “The question we have to answer is: When does the future begin?”

The answer, apparently, inexplicably is: Not this week.

[Molitoth]

I shouldn't even have to post here.

:p

[FringeNC]

It's time for a change at QB when you have one of the lowest rated QBs and one of the very worst offenses in the league. Even if I hadn't witnessed how poorly Huard played, the lack of offensive output is reason enough to bench him.

[ILChief]

Wow, that article really opened my eyes as to how bad we've been at developing a QB.

I also didn't know Blackledge had a winning record. I'm a little young to remember his time in KC. If he had a winning record, why did he get run out of town?

[farmerchief]

Something needs to be done, when all you get is field goals out of the red ZOne! That won't do it, Herm!

[ChiefsCountry]

Heck its not even Peterson, who in the whole Chiefs franchise history has this team developed at QB?

[LiL stumppy]

As long as Damon is playing decent, and the Cheifs have a winning record, he will start. Thats the way it will be. So everyone can quit whining about starting Croyle, and Damon starting, because there is nothing thats going to happen until those two things happen.

[DFB]

YAWN.

"Official" thread? Maybe if "official" is the synonym for 100+. Geez, people...give it up. We're almost halfway through and in first place. Damon is the starter for the rest of the season.

[Molitoth]

YAWN.

"Official" thread? Maybe if "official" is the synonym for 100+. Geez, people...give it up. We're almost halfway through and in first place. Damon is the starter for the rest of the season.

Thats the problem. Our season will tank soon.

[DFB]

Our season will tank soon.

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/8ball3.gif

[Skip Towne]

Dozens of Head Coaches have turned thumbs down on Huard during his lengthy career. So who are we to believe? Dozens of highly paid Pro Football Coaches or GOATSE and Hootie, neither of which has ANY practical football experience at ANY level.

[Reerun_KC]

Just wanted to be in....

Have nothing to add except, Horrid blows....

[ChiefsCountry]

You know what is going to happen, Dungver is going to knock Huard out. Croyle has to make his first start in Indianapolis who more than likely will be coming off a lost. Then its going to look really really bad and then Huard comes back for the Fade at Arrowhead and wins.

[007]

Who is Ty Law?

[luv]

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/8ball3.gif
Please, no. Not the 8 ball!

[007]

Please, no. Not the 8 ball!
Greg63 in 3... 2... 1...

[Reerun_KC]

Bump...


This needs a sticky....

[Iowanian]

You're missing the big picture of whats going to happen.

*mark it down here*

The Jets will be getting rid of Chad Pennington this offseason, as they'll soon be starting Kellen Clemons.

Herm loves him some Pennington........

Guess who will be in KC next season?

[jjchieffan]

I am with the Huard bashers . I wish we had chosen to develop Croyle. But I just wonder how many of you who now bash Croyle, were complaining about when we let Gannon walk. Huard and Gannon are cut from the same cloth. A journeyman qb who no one else wanted, yet many on here are just as bad as Hootie/Goatse about him. And please...don't anyone throw up his superbowl appearance. Huard could have done the same thing throwing to 2 future HOFer's. Huard=Gannon. I didn't want Gannon, I don't want Huard.

[007]

You're missing the big picture of whats going to happen.

*mark it down here*

The Jets will be getting rid of Chad Pennington this offseason, as they'll soon be starting Kellen Clemons.

Herm loves him some Pennington........

Guess who will be in KC next season?
Damnit Iowa. I hate you now. :)

[ChiefsCountry]

I am with the Huard bashers . I wish we had chosen to develop Croyle. But I just wonder how many of you who now bash Croyle, were complaining about when we let Gannon walk. Huard and Gannon are cut from the same cloth. A journeyman qb who no one else wanted, yet many on here are just as bad as Hootie/Goatse about him. And please...don't anyone throw up his superbowl appearance. Huard could have done the same thing throwing to 2 future HOFer's. Huard=Gannon. I didn't want Gannon, I don't want Huard.

I'll admit that I was for Grbac at that time. I liked his upside and thought Gannon was over the hill.

[banyon]

You're missing the big picture of whats going to happen.

*mark it down here*

The Jets will be getting rid of Chad Pennington this offseason, as they'll soon be starting Kellen Clemons.

Herm loves him some Pennington........

Guess who will be in KC next season?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[wazu]

Huard has a better winning percentage as a Chief QB than Green did.

[Redcoats58]

You're missing the big picture of whats going to happen.

*mark it down here*

The Jets will be getting rid of Chad Pennington this offseason, as they'll soon be starting Kellen Clemons.

Herm loves him some Pennington........

Guess who will be in KC next season?
Someone get the nuthooks. Please don't plant that seed.

[007]

I am with the Huard bashers . I wish we had chosen to develop Croyle. But I just wonder how many of you who now bash Croyle, were complaining about when we let Gannon walk. Huard and Gannon are cut from the same cloth. A journeyman qb who no one else wanted, yet many on here are just as bad as Hootie/Goatse about him. And please...don't anyone throw up his superbowl appearance. Huard could have done the same thing throwing to 2 future HOFer's. Huard=Gannon. I didn't want Gannon, I don't want Huard.
Gannon > Huard

[Deberg_1990]

No need for 100 threads. Everyone pile on Damon here.




Oh well, only been 10,000 threads on it so far..whats one more? This will be the official thread until the next one starts in 10 minutes..

[smittysbar]

Huard sucks!!! I can' figure out from week to week, how bad he looks, how he keeps his job

[jjchieffan]

Gannon > Huard
ROFL ROFL ROFL pass me some of what your smokin will ya

[GarySpFc]

I'm tired of seeing Huard's short thrown ruptured ducks. We need to start Croyle now.

[007]

ROFL ROFL ROFL pass me some of what your smokin will ya

You are high if you don't see it.

[ThaVirus]

You're missing the big picture of whats going to happen.

*mark it down here*

The Jets will be getting rid of Chad Pennington this offseason, as they'll soon be starting Kellen Clemons.

Herm loves him some Pennington........

Guess who will be in KC next season?

Oh God no...Please don't say things like that.

[luv]

Huard sucks!!! I can' figure out from week to week, how bad he looks, how he keeps his job
4-3 and first in our division. That's how he's keeping his job.

[Deberg_1990]

Steve Bono had a great winning % as well.

[Redcoats58]

ROFL ROFL ROFL pass me some of what your smokin will ya
Gannon was better then Huard.

[jjchieffan]

You are high if you don't see it.

I see Gannon filled in for an injured and hated Grbac, won games, and was worshipped for it, but left before we could see him flop as starter for us. Huard came in for an injured and loved Green, and won games. Instead of leaving, he resigned and we are seeing him flop as starter. At least Huard didn't defect to our worst rivals. Not that I blame Gannon for it. Rice and Brown saved him from being exposed as a fraud starter. As I said, they are equal, and I wouldn't want either one as my starting qb.

[banyon]

ROFL ROFL ROFL pass me some of what your smokin will ya

WTF? :spock:

2002 (MVP) Oakland Raiders 16 16 418 618 67.6 4,689 7.6 26 10 36 214 97.3 50 156 3.1 3 9 3
2001 Oakland Raiders 16 16 361 549 65.8 3,828 7.0 27 9 27 155 95.5 63 231 3.7 2 13 7
2000 Oakland Raiders 16 16 284 473 60.0 3,430 7.3 28 11 28 124 92.4 89 529 5.9 4 9 5

[Redcoats58]

I see Gannon filled in for an injured and hated Grbac, won games, and was worshipped for it, but left before we could see him flop as starter for us. Huard came in for an injured and loved Green, and won games. Instead of leaving, he resigned and we are seeing him flop as starter. At least Huard didn't defect to our worst rivals. Not that I blame Gannon for it. Rice and Brown saved him from being exposed as a fraud starter. As I said, they are equal, and I wouldn't want either one as my starting qb.
Rice was hardly spectacular once he went to the Raiders and Brown was no spring chicken yet Gannon still was an MVP and took his team to a superbowl. What are you smoking is the real question?

[jjchieffan]

I assure you, he would not have gone to the superbowl throwing to Kennison and Parker.

[jjchieffan]

One thing I want to make clear. I do not believe Huard is better than Gannon. I am simply saying that Gannon was no better than Huard.

[smittysbar]

4-3 and first in our division. That's how he's keeping his job.

Not because of him!

[DFB]

Instead of leaving, he resigned and we are seeing him flop as starter.

Winning 4 of the last 5 and two division games on the road....TOTAL flop as a starter.

[luv]

Not because of him!
Maybe not, but he's part of the combination. I'm not a Huard hater, but I'm also not a Huard fan. As long as we are winning with him in, he'll start.

[DFB]

Dozens of Head Coaches have turned thumbs down on Huard during his lengthy career.

Dozens of head coaches turned thumbs down on Priest Holmes, too. Until KC.

[jjchieffan]

Winning 4 of the last 5 and two division games on the road....TOTAL flop as a starter.

I give him minimal credit for the wins, and totally blame the losses on him. We are bad, but we could have beaten Houston and Chicago with an average QB. Marty proved that. That is all we ever had while he was here.

[crazycoffey]

If this is the official one, then here's my official "I concur" post....

[banyon]

I assure you, he would not have gone to the superbowl throwing to Kennison and Parker.

Yes, let's see, what was the difference here in these Raiders teams?

1996 7-9
1997 4-12
1998 8-8
1999 8-8 (gannon joins, makes pro bowl) Age :34
2000 12-4 (pro bowl, lost in AFC Champ game) Age 35
2001 10-6 (lost in 2nd round, Gannon makes pro bowl) Age 36
2002 11-5 (MVP, lost in Super Bowl) Age 37
2003 4-12 (Gannon injured in Week 7) Age 38
2004 5-11 (Gannon injured early in week 3, retires after season) Age 39
2005 4-12
2006 2-14
2007 2-4 (so far)

:hmmm:

Must be the 2002 off season loss of TE Doug Jolley or RB Charlie Garner I'm guessin'

[crazycoffey]

You're missing the big picture of whats going to happen.

*mark it down here*

The Jets will be getting rid of Chad Pennington this offseason, as they'll soon be starting Kellen Clemons.

Herm loves him some Pennington........

Guess who will be in KC next season?




You sure we won't trade a fourth rounder to Carolina for Vinnie?

[wazu]

You're missing the big picture of whats going to happen.

*mark it down here*

The Jets will be getting rid of Chad Pennington this offseason, as they'll soon be starting Kellen Clemons.

Herm loves him some Pennington........

Guess who will be in KC next season?

Pennington is a good QB. Even better than Huard.

[jjchieffan]

Yes, let's see, what was the difference here in these Raiders teams?

1996 7-9
1997 4-12
1998 8-8
1999 8-8 (gannon joins, makes pro bowl) Age :34
2000 12-4 (pro bowl, lost in AFC Champ game) Age 35
2001 10-6 (lost in 2nd round, Gannon makes pro bowl) Age 36
2002 11-5 (MVP, lost in Super Bowl) Age 37
2003 4-12 (Gannon injured in Week 7) Age 38
2004 5-11 (Gannon injured early in week 3, retires after season) Age 39
2005 4-12
2006 2-14
2007 2-4 (so far)

:hmmm:

Must be the 2002 off season loss of TE Doug Jolley or RB Charlie Garner I'm guessin'
Maybe it was the fact that Rice was signed in 2000, Rice was released after 2003, Rice retired after 2004. Wow, those dates line up perfectly with your great Raider years. It was not Gannon. Rice and Brown caught everything thrown anywhere near them. They made Gannon look much, much better than he really was.

[DFB]

I give him minimal credit for the wins, and totally blame the losses on him. We are bad, but we could have beaten Houston and Chicago with an average QB. Marty proved that. That is all we ever had while he was here.

So you blame Huard for LJ having 10 yds vs. Jax? ROFL

Win, no credit. Lose, all the blame. Real objectivity there.

[Pablo]

To all of those that say Huard sucks.. what more do you expect of the guy? Here are a few reasons why you should be thankful Huard is in.

1) Patchwork Offensive Line
Do you want to get our QB of the future killed. This line would make Peyton Manning look average. It would only take a few games of getting smashed and making bad throws before his confidence would be screwed and we'd be begging for Huard and Brody would be scared to death.

2) Average Recieving Core
Tony is the only great thing about our recievers and Bowe is gonna be a stud, but it's not like he has a ton of guys to throw to. We know LJ isn't gonna catch the rock and he barely has time to get the ball to Tony or Bowe before being driven into the ground.

3)Durability
He might get the hell knocked outta him but he gets back up, he's not some whiny pretty boy that get a concussion when someone farts in his general direction. Yeah, he's old but he's tough and maybe we can shove Brody in when we have some decent blocking.

4) 4-3
He wins. He might not make it pretty and throw for 400 yards but he manages the game the best he can and wins. If we were developing Croyle right now we'd be 1-6 and he'd probably have 15 picks.

5) Running Game
LJ isn't the same, and I'm sure he'll get up to speed, but the other team sends at least 6 guys every time because they know our O-Line can't hold them and Larry sure as hell can't block. Our running game is sad and that goes back to the O-Line too.

Until we get can develop an O-Line that won't get our QB killed, Huard should be in there. This won't be the year for Brody and if next year is I hope we can get someone to block for him so he can develop.

[007]

One thing I want to make clear. I do not believe Huard is better than Gannon. I am simply saying that League MVP Gannon was no better than Huard.

FYP

so Huard is a league MVP?

[jjchieffan]

FYP

so Huard is a league MVP?

If he was placed in the situation Gannon was, yes. Hell, Ryan Leaf or Heath Shuler would have done just as well. That was the wet dream of qbs that Gannon lucked into.

[jjchieffan]

So you blame Huard for LJ having 10 yds vs. Jax? ROFL

Win, no credit. Lose, all the blame. Real objectivity there.

Absolutely. LJ got 10 yds because they didn't respect our passing game. They knew that if they stacked 8-9 in the box to stop LJ, that Huard would not be able to beat them. They were right. A decent QB would have torched them and made them pay for being so aggressive against the run.

[banyon]

Maybe it was the fact that Rice was signed in 2000, Rice was released after 2003, Rice retired after 2004. Wow, those dates line up perfectly with your great Raider years. It was not Gannon. Rice and Brown caught everything thrown anywhere near them. They made Gannon look much, much better than he really was.

That's crazy. Rice was at the end of the line. Here were his numbers for his Raiders years:

2003 Oakland Raiders 16 15 63 869 13.8 47T 2 -- -- -- -- -- 2 1
2002 Oakland Raiders 16 16 92 1,211 13.2 75 7 3 20 6.7 12 0 1 1
2001 Oakland Raiders 16 15 83 1,139 13.7 40T 9 -- -- -- -- -- 1 0

Here are Kennison's numbers the last 3 years:

2006 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 53 860 16.2 51 5 4 16 4.0 9 0 -- --
2005 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 68 1,102 16.2 55 5 7 43 6.1 23 0 1 1
2004 Kansas City Chiefs 14 14 62 1,086 17.5 70T 8 2 15 7.5 15 0 1 1

You really think there's a big difference there?

Keep in mind in 2002, Gannon threw for 4, 600 yards. barely a quarter of those to Rice.


Also Brown's #'s:


2002 Oakland Raiders 16 16 81 930 11.5 45 2 6 19 3.2 9 0 3 1
2001 Oakland Raiders 16 16 91 1,165 12.8 46T 9 4 39 9.8 19 0 1 1
2000 Oakland Raiders 16 16 76 1,128 14.8 45 11 3 12 4.0 7 0 -- --

And TG's #'s (last 3 years):

2006 Kansas City Chiefs 15 15 73 900 12.3 57 5 -- -- -- -- -- 1 0
2005 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 78 905 11.6 39 2 -- -- -- -- -- -- --
2004 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 102 1,258 12.3 32 7 1 5 5.0 5 0 -- --

looks pretty similar to me. :shrug:

[banyon]

One thing I want to make clear. I do not believe Huard is better than Gannon. I am simply saying that 4 time PRO BOWLER Gannon was no better than Huard.

Fixed the POST AGAIN

[jjchieffan]

So you think Kennison and Parker are as good as Brown and Rice? Ok, whatever you think. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree because I have got to get to bed.

[DFB]

Absolutely. LJ got 10 yds because they didn't respect our passing game. They knew that if they stacked 8-9 in the box to stop LJ, that Huard would not be able to beat them. They were right. A decent QB would have torched them and made them pay for being so aggressive against the run.

Correction: LJ had 9 rushes for 12 yds.

I assume you're joking here. Huard was 19-30 for 196. Not to mention, we were absolutely owned in TOP and at the LOS. Maybe you should find a torrent and watch the game again.

NO team can win without establishing the run (unless you force game-changing turnovers). Not even the Pats or Colts.

[banyon]

So you think Kennison and Parker are as good as Brown and Rice? Ok, whatever you think. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree because I have got to get to bed.

Parker is not our #2 receiving target. See the above post.

[smittysbar]

Correction: LJ had 9 rushes for 12 yds.

I assume you're joking here. Huard was 19-30 for 196. Not to mention, we were absolutely owned in TOP and at the LOS. Maybe you should find a torrent and watch the game again.

NO team can win without establishing the run (unless you force game-changing turnovers). Not even the Pats or Colts.

Greenbay has been doing it, so NO is probably not the word you should use. :banghead:

[DFB]

Greenbay has been doing it, so NO is probably not the word you should use. :banghead:

ROFL Doing it when? This year? Last year? 1966? Tell me when and I'll show you you're wrong. :shake:

[banyon]

ROFL Doing it when? This year? Last year? 1966? Tell me when and I'll show you you're wrong. :shake:
Okay, This I want to see. go for it:

28 St. Louis Rams 7 11.3 79 166 23.7 578 3.5 82.6 0 31 27 16.3 1 0 2
29 Kansas City Chiefs 7 14.6 102 176 25.1 575 3.3 82.1 2 54 25 14.2 5 1 1
30 Chicago Bears 7 19.6 137 180 25.7 568 3.2 81.1 2 16 29 16.1 0 0 8
31 Houston Texans 7 24.1 169 170 24.3 529 3.1 75.6 3 25 34 20.0 1 0 2
32 Green Bay Packers 6 23.7 142 121 20.2 394 3.3 65.7 5 44 20 16.5 2 1 1

2007 RPG in bold

[jjchieffan]

Parker is not our #2 receiving target. See the above post.
I saw your post. You picked TG's stats because Parkers did not work for your arguement. Parker is the #2 receiver. You can say what you want. Rice and Brown were the most feared receiving duo in the league when they were together. Rice proved he was no where near done in Oakland. For you to insinuate otherwise is a joke.

[Pablo]

No team can win without a decent offensive line. I really believe a solid 80% of the Chiefs offensive problems are the fault of our horrendous line. Waters is the only good lineman we have, and Weigman is average at best, but they are a horrible unit.

[DFB]

Okay, This I want to see. go for it:

28 St. Louis Rams 7 11.3 79 166 23.7 578 3.5 82.6 0 31 27 16.3 1 0 2
29 Kansas City Chiefs 7 14.6 102 176 25.1 575 3.3 82.1 2 54 25 14.2 5 1 1
30 Chicago Bears 7 19.6 137 180 25.7 568 3.2 81.1 2 16 29 16.1 0 0 8
31 Houston Texans 7 24.1 169 170 24.3 529 3.1 75.6 3 25 34 20.0 1 0 2
32 Green Bay Packers 6 23.7 142 121 20.2 394 3.3 65.7 5 44 20 16.5 2 1 1

2007 RPG in bold

Where's the rushing attempts per game? LJ had NINE ATTEMPTS vs. Jax. You can't win without ESTABLISHING the run. Period.

[banyon]

I saw your post. You picked TG's stats because Parkers did not work for your arguement. Parker is the #2 receiver. You can say what you want. Rice and Brown were the most feared receiving duo in the league when they were together. Rice proved he was no where near done in Oakland. For you to insinuate otherwise is a joke.

You don't think teams fear Tony Gonzalez? :spock:

[Pablo]

ROFL Doing it when? This year? Last year? 1966? Tell me when and I'll show you you're wrong. :shake:They actually are this year. They're 32nd in the league in Rushing YPG. The Chiefs are 29th.

[DFB]

They actually are this year. They're 32nd in the league in Rushing YPG. The Chiefs are 29th.

ESTABLISHING the run. NINE attempts is not establishing the run. Sheesh. :shake:

[banyon]

Where's the rushing attempts per game? LJ had NINE ATTEMPTS vs. Jax. You can't win without ESTABLISHING the run. Period.

The question is Does Green Bay establish the run? Focus and get back to us when you've thought some more.

[DFB]

The question is Does Green Bay establish the run? Focus and get back to us when you've thought some more.

Yes, GB does establish the run. No one could have won the Jax game when your Pro Bowl back is getting NINE touches and 12 yards. Not that hard to figure out.

[jjchieffan]

You don't think teams fear Tony Gonzalez? :spock:
They did not fear our tandem. Teams could and did double team TG, and single cover Kennison and get away with it. In Oakland you had to pick your poison. Double Rice, Brown burns you, Double Brown, Rice torches you.

[DFB]

Essentially, people are wanting to blame Huard for losing, when LJ had NINE attempts. That's absolute lunacy.

[banyon]

Yes, GB does establish the run. No one could have won the Jax game when your Pro Bowl back is getting NINE touches and 12 yards. Not that hard to figure out.


Based on what? Their Last place performance? ROFL

[DFB]

Based on what? Thier Last place performance? ROFL

Based on MORE THAN NINE ATTEMPTS.

[DFB]

Find a team that has won when they have rushed for less than 15 yds in the ENTIRE GAME.

[banyon]

They did not fear our tandem. Teams could and did double team TG, and single cover Kennison and get away with it. In Oakland you had to pick your poison. Double Rice, Brown burns you, Double Brown, Rice torches you.

But you could leave Doug Jolley open and it didn't make a difference.


Look Gannon made 4 Pro Bowls. Huard has 0 . do you really believe that all pro Bowl voters are absolute morons? Do you think he was accidentally handed the MVP in 2002? Do you think he made it to the SuperBowl by paying off the refs? I can't believe this is an actual argument. There is nothing, zero evidence to support an assertion that Huard and Gannon are equivalent Qb's.

[banyon]

Find a team that has won when they have rushed for less than 15 yds in the ENTIRE GAME.

Oh, I didn't realize you were focusing solely on that one game. Well, i guess that explains everything. Why use a season's worth of data on a subject when you can focus narrowly on something that exonerates your herodouche?

[Pablo]

Find a team that has won when they have rushed for less than 15 yds in the ENTIRE GAME.Well, that's not gonna happen, but it is possible to win without a significant contribution from the running game if you have an adequate passing game... which requires an average or better line. Green Bay beat the Chargers with 42 yards on the ground and the Vikings with 46 yards on the ground. Those aren't great numbers by any means, but I'm sure their line did a good job of blocking for Favre.

[DFB]

Oh, I didn't realize you were focusing solely on that one game. Well, i guess that explains everything. Why use a season's worth of data on a subject when you can focus narrowly on something that exonerates your herodouche?

Well, if you would read the entire thread before jumping in the middle, maybe you would've seen that. I was referencing the Jax game.

Correction: LJ had 9 rushes for 12 yds.

I assume you're joking here. Huard was 19-30 for 196. Not to mention, we were absolutely owned in TOP and at the LOS. Maybe you should find a torrent and watch the game again.

NO team can win without establishing the run (unless you force game-changing turnovers). Not even the Pats or Colts.

[banyon]

Well, if you would read the entire thread before jumping in the middle, maybe you would've seen that. I was referencing the Jax game.

You made a blanket general statement, not limited to any particular context, to wit:

NO team can win without establishing the run (unless you force game-changing turnovers). Not even the Pats or Colts.

Now you are surprised when people challenge you on it?

[DFB]

Well, that's not gonna happen, but it is possible to win without a significant contribution from the running game if you have an adequate passing game... which requires an average or better line. Green Bay beat the Chargers with 42 yards on the ground and the Vikings with 46 yards on the ground. Those aren't great numbers by any means, but I'm sure their line did a good job of blocking for Favre.

I'm also pretty sure they had more than NINE ATTEMPTS (a whopping TEN if you count Bennett's negative 2 yard run). ESTABLISHING the run. You can't win without it. You could break off an 80 yard run and have just 2 attempts. That's not establishing the run. Establishing the run is attempts, controlling the ball, owning the LOS, and dominating TOP. Everything Jax did to us. End of story.

[DFB]

You made a blanket general statement, not limited to any particular context, to wit:

Now you are surprised when people challenge you on it?

Not suprised, because it wasn't a challenge. NO team can win a game without establishing the run. Again, find me a team that has won without a) 10 or less rushing attempts and/or b) less 10 or less rushing yards.

[Pablo]

I'm also pretty sure they had more than NINE ATTEMPTS (a whopping TEN if you count Bennett's negative 2 yard run). ESTABLISHING the run. You can't win without it. You could break off an 80 yard run and have just 2 attempts. That's not establishing the run. Establishing the run is attempts, controlling the ball, owning the LOS, and dominating TOP. Everything Jax did to us. End of story.
In the Chargers game they rushed the ball 11 times, 13 times if you count Favre rushing for 1 yard on 2 attempts.

[jjchieffan]

But you could leave Doug Jolley open and it didn't make a difference.


Look Gannon made 4 Pro Bowls. Huard has 0 . do you really believe that all pro Bowl voters are absolute morons? Do you think he was accidentally handed the MVP in 2002? Do you think he made it to the SuperBowl by paying off the refs? I can't believe this is an actual argument. There is nothing, zero evidence to support an assertion that Huard and Gannon are equivalent Qb's.

You may get me on this one becuase you have the stats but compare Gannons career up to the point where Huard is now. After all, to make all things equal, you really can't use stats from Gannon that he accrued at a later point in his career. I am unsure of Gannons age when he left here. Because you never know. We might fix the line, get a real offensive coordinator, and Sippio or Webb might be as good as Bowe and Huard might take us to the SB, win an MVP, and got to the probowl the next 4 years. Who knows? I can't see the future.

[DFB]

It's amazing how fast people are to criticize Huard for the Jax game when LJ had 12 yds, the line couldn't protect, and the D couldn't get a stop to get off the field. Everyone but Huard. Seriously, I understand people wanting to see Croyle play. I do, too....eventually. But this Huard hating is becoming pandemic. :shake:

[banyon]

Not suprised, because it wasn't a challenge. NO team can win a game without establishing the run. Again, find me a team that has won without a) 10 or less rushing attempts and/or b) less 10 or less rushing yards.

convenient numbers at 10 attempts.


The GB numbers posted above apply in every NFL game as well. is there some reason they qualify as "establishing the run"?


I don't think # of attempts is the sole determing factor on "establishing the run". Actually gaining yardage is important too.

[Pablo]

It's amazing how fast people are to criticize Huard for the Jax game when LJ had 12 yds, the line couldn't protect, and the D couldn't get a stop to get off the field. Everyone but Huard. Seriously, I understand people wanting to see Croyle play. I do, too....eventually. But this Huard hating is becoming pandemic. :shake:
I support Huard, but I hate our line. I don't blame Huard for anything, and I think LJ will break out of this slump, but I believe pass protection and the play of the line is very important in the success of a team and/or QB and the running game. It wouldn't matter if we ran the ball 30 times against that Jags D because Larry probably would have racked up 70 yards at most and we would have still lost.

[DFB]

convenient numbers at 10 attempts.

The GB numbers posted above apply in every NFL game as well. is there some reason they qualify as "establishing the run"?

I don't think # of attempts is the sole determing factor on "establishing the run". Actually gaining yardage is important too.

Absolutely, gaining yardage IS important. But establishing the run is not just one or two breakout runs.

10 attempts, 10 yards is what the Chiefs did. No team or quarterback could have overcome that. Whether it be Huard, Favre, Croyle, or Montana. :shake:

[banyon]

Absolutely, gaining yardage IS important. But establishing the run is not just one or two breakout runs.

10 attempts, 10 yards is what the Chiefs did. No team or quarterback could have overcome that. Whether it be Huard, Favre, Croyle, or Montana. :shake:

What about the 0-4 record Huard compiled last year against non NFC-West teams when we averaged 24 Attempts per game and he compiled a 66 rating? or the other games this year besides JAX?

[smittysbar]

It's amazing how fast people are to criticize Huard for the Jax game when LJ had 12 yds, the line couldn't protect, and the D couldn't get a stop to get off the field. Everyone but Huard. Seriously, I understand people wanting to see Croyle play. I do, too....eventually. But this Huard hating is becoming pandemic. :shake:

I think the 11 in the GB SD game is evidence enough, not saying that's what I want to see, but you wanted answers and you got them

[DFB]

What about the 0-4 record Huard compiled last year against non NFC-West teams when we averaged 24 Attempts per game and he compiled a 66 rating? or the other games this year besides JAX?

Well, he only lost three games a starter last year (5-3), so I see no need to go on with this. Fact is, Huard is not the one to solely blame for the Jax loss. End of story.

[DFB]

I think the 11 in the GB SD game is evidence enough, not saying that's what I want to see, but you wanted answers and you got them

11 attempts for 43 yds and 10 attempts for 10 yards are world's apart.

[Redcoats58]

11 attempts for 43 yds and 10 attempts for 10 yards are world's apart.
Not really, neither have established the run. If you are gonna make some BS statement about how no QB could have come out with a win with that type of production from the RB then you need to let us know what you consider establishing the run because 43 yards is not establishing the run. Any team that plays Greenbay is not afraid of their running game and they are more then likely keying in on the passing and the Pack is still winning. They are not establishing the run in their games.

[ILChief]

You're missing the big picture of whats going to happen.

*mark it down here*

The Jets will be getting rid of Chad Pennington this offseason, as they'll soon be starting Kellen Clemons.

Herm loves him some Pennington........

Guess who will be in KC next season?


I think Huard and Pennington are long lost brothers. Both have weak arms and both immediately dump it off

[donkhater]

Absolutely, gaining yardage IS important. But establishing the run is not just one or two breakout runs.

10 attempts, 10 yards is what the Chiefs did. No team or quarterback could have overcome that. Whether it be Huard, Favre, Croyle, or Montana. :shake:
I couldn't find the stats for the game, but I recall NE going up to Minnesota last season and essentially passing the entire game. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they only ran the ball 10-15 times and they mopped the Metrodome floor with that team.

It's called adjusting your game plan to attack the opponents weakness. Herm is too damn stubborn to admit that his best offensive weapons right now are Gonzo and Bowe. He'd rather be bull-headed and run LJ into the backs of the O-line for negative yardage. His offensive ideas are outdated.

[FloridaMan88]

You're missing the big picture of whats going to happen.

*mark it down here*

The Jets will be getting rid of Chad Pennington this offseason, as they'll soon be starting Kellen Clemons.

Herm loves him some Pennington........

Guess who will be in KC next season?

This has been my fear as well. Pennington makes Huard look like Dan Marino in terms of getting the ball down the field

[Reerun_KC]

This has been my fear as well. Pennington makes Huard look like Dan Marino in terms of getting the ball down the field


Wouldnt be surprised... Herm did bring his toolbox Dick Curl to KC...

Getting Pennington would futher more Herminize the Chiefs into a joke...

[FringeNC]

This has been my fear as well. Pennington makes Huard look like Dan Marino in terms of getting the ball down the field

Pennington is far more accurate and looks of his receivers much better than Huard. I don't want Pennington at all, but he is far better QB than Damon Huard.

[donkhater]

Actually, that's not my fear.

I see KC being in the hunt for the playoffs this season maybe even getting the wildcard at 9-7 again (yes it could happen).

Then next season rolls around with an opportunity to get younger and more dynamic at the position, yet the mantra from the front office and the coaching staff will be:

This is Damon's team. He led us to the playoffs last season.

And the beat goes on......

[DFB]

Not really, neither have established the run. If you are gonna make some BS statement about how no QB could have come out with a win with that type of production from the RB then you need to let us know what you consider establishing the run because 43 yards is not establishing the run. Any team that plays Greenbay is not afraid of their running game and they are more then likely keying in on the passing and the Pack is still winning. They are not establishing the run in their games.

Averaging 4yd/carry vs. 1yd/carry is night and day. Stevie Wonder could see that. Find me a team that has won without a) 10 or less rushing attempts and/or b) less 10 or less rushing yards. 10 attempts, 10 yards is what the Chiefs did. No team or quarterback could have overcome that. Whether it be Huard, Favre, Croyle, or Montana.

Fact is, Huard is not the one to solely blame for the Jax loss. You can spin it whichever way you want. 10 att-10yds is a death sentence to a football team, especially when being dominated in TOP.

[Skip Towne]

Dozens of head coaches turned thumbs down on Priest Holmes, too. Until KC.
Entirely different situation. Priest had big time injuries in college so teams shied away from him. Huard gets rejected because HE SUCKS AND ALWAYS HAS. Nice try.

[jjjayb]

Well, he only lost three games a starter last year (5-3), so I see no need to go on with this. Fact is, Huard is not the one to solely blame for the Jax loss. End of story.

Coincidentally, he lost 3 of the 4 games he played against teams that weren't in the bottom 5 in defense. Really. That's like bragging about scoring against the 2003 chiefs.

[DFB]

Entirely different situation. Priest had big time injuries in college so teams shied away from him. Huard gets rejected because HE SUCKS AND ALWAYS HAS. Nice try.

Different situation, but still comparable. Even when Baltimore released Priest (after winning the SuperBowl), no one was jumping in line to snag him. KC brought him in to be a backup to T-Rich who was going to be the feature RB that year. Priest never became a starter until he came here.

I don't buy the argument that "a guy sucks if he's a backup". Huard was good enough that he was trusted with the team if something happened to Marino or Brady. After 1 1/2 years, Damon is certainly good enough to be an adequate starter. Top 10? No. Peyton Manning? No. But good enough to lead this team to the playoffs again.

[Skip Towne]

Different situation, but still comparable. Even when Baltimore released Priest (after winning the SuperBowl), no one was jumping in line to snag him. KC brought him in to be a backup to T-Rich who was going to be the feature RB that year. Priest never became a starter until he came here.

I don't buy the argument that "a guy sucks if he's a backup". Huard was good enough that he was trusted with the team if something happened to Marino or Brady. After 1 1/2 years, Damon is certainly good enough to be an adequate starter. Top 10? No. Peyton Manning? No. But good enough to lead this team to the playoffs again.
Entirely different situations, no comparison.

[Molitoth]

But good enough to lead this team to the playoffs again.

Nobody besides you 3 fools on this board want to see another first round playoff loss. It's pointless.

[Skip Towne]

Nobody besides you 3 fools on this board want to see another first round playoff loss. It's pointless.
The games are boring too.

[DFB]

Nobody besides you 3 fools on this board want to see another first round playoff loss. It's pointless.

I don't want to see that either! But I sure as hell want to get there and I want to win the division, too. Plus, a division title will give us a home playoff game. I like our odds in that case.

[luv]

I think Huard and Pennington are long lost brothers. Both have weak arms and both immediately dump it off
That's why Huard is often on the ground in the fetal position with a defender on top of him. Granted, he didn't get sacked nearly as much in the Oakland game.

[Molitoth]

I don't want to see that either! But I sure as hell want to get there and I want to win the division, too. Plus, a division title will give us a home playoff game. I like our odds in that case.


Everyone else wants that also, but we want it with a team that we are confident in. Us as Fans like to be confident in the team we support. We talk trash, we like to win, we pay good money for it. Going into the playoffs with a shitty O-line,QB,OC, or HC (whatever you want to blame it on) is pure crap, and will not gain us anything but another year with King Carl.

[DFB]

Entirely different situations, no comparison.

Rich Gannon?

Drafted by New England, traded to Minnesota, released, signed with Washington, released, KC, free agency, Oakland, SuperBowl.

[DFB]

Everyone else wants that also, but we want it with a team that we are confident in. Us as Fans like to be confident in the team we support. We talk trash, we like to win, we pay good money for it. Going into the playoffs with a shitty O-line,QB,OC, or HC (whatever you want to blame it on) is pure crap, and will not gain us anything but another year with King Carl.

First place, 2-0 in the division (both on the road). Top 10 D, among the league leaders in sacks and negative yardage. ROY candidate, DL that's great in pass rush, Tony G's having a good (record) year, Priest is back. Crazy dual RB possibilities.

I'm confident.

[luv]

First place, 2-0 in the division (both on the road). Top 10 D, among the league leaders in sacks and negative yardage. ROY candidate, DL that's great in pass rush, Tony G's having a good (record) year, Priest is back. Crazy dual RB possibilities.

I'm confident.
With that kind of talent, why haven't we stood out more?

[kcirnamffoh]

Now let me get this straight. There are KC fans that would rather throw away this season, when every indication is that they could win their division, just to give a younger QB experience?

I know there's dumb fans in every town but this seems a bit ridiculous.

Sure, Huard is obviously not going to win any awards and couldn't be considered as the future at that position. But everyone saw what Croyle did during the preseason. He obviously was not ready to play at this level especially with a competitive team who will need all the help it can get.

It is not a stretch, I believe, to think that Croyle could lose two games by himself thus blowing any chance the Chiefs could have for a playoff game. Huard is at least careful enough to not lose games through his mistakes or inefficiencies.

I can't consider you much of a fan if you want your team to lose for ANY reason. Putting an unproven, inexperienced QB in at this point in this season for no reason other than to provide a spark is something only a competitor would want you to do. So how smart is that?

[DFB]

With that kind of talent, why haven't we stood out more?

Because we're the Kansas City Chiefs. A small market team. Ask the media. We're ugly. We're not pretty, we're not flashy.

[DFB]

Now let me get this straight. There are KC fans that would rather throw away this season, when every indication is that they could win their division, just to give a younger QB experience?

I know there's dumb fans in every town but this seems a bit ridiculous.

Sure, Huard is obviously not going to win any awards and couldn't be considered as the future at that position. But everyone saw what Croyle did during the preseason. He obviously was not ready to play at this level especially with a competitive team who will need all the help it can get.

It is not a stretch, I believe, to think that Croyle could lose two games by himself thus blowing any chance the Chiefs could have for a playoff game. Huard is at least careful enough to not lose games through his mistakes or inefficiencies.

I can't consider you much of a fan if you want your team to lose for ANY reason. Putting an unproven, inexperienced QB in at this point in this season for no reason other than to provide a spark is something only a competitor would want you to do. So how smart is that?

Welcome to the Planet. :)

Unimaginable, huh? :shake:

[Molitoth]

But everyone saw what Croyle did during the preseason

Preseason means jack.

You think those players who already Knew that they had a roster spot were out there playing hard?

Put Croyle in with the starters for a game and lets see how he does.

[luv]

Because we're the Kansas City Chiefs. A small market team. Ask the media. We're ugly. We're not pretty, we're not flashy.
With players like that, we should be. I guess even the press can't sell mediocrity. I don't know what makes Carl think he can. How can we be a small market team when we've got the loudest stsadium in the NFL?

[DFB]

Put Croyle in with the starters for a game and lets see how he does.

He did. Huard didn't even play the 3rd game (or the 4th, IIRC).

[Chiefnj2]

The big problem people are ignoring is that the Chiefs aren't scoring TD's.

Last year there were 6 games where KC scored 1 TD or less (not including FG's). This year with only 7 games under their belt they already have 5 games with 1 TD or less (not including FGs).

That is not a sign of a good team.

[luv]

He did. Huard didn't even play the 3rd game (or the 4th, IIRC).
All I heard during preseason is that it doesn't mean jack. If you want to look at preseason games, Huard wasn't exactly impressive for the time he did play.

[DFB]

With players like that, we should be. I guess even the press can't sell mediocrity. I don't know what makes Carl think he can. How can we be a small market team when we've got the loudest stsadium in the NFL?

Having a loud stadium has nothing to do with market size. KC and Jax are two of the smallest markets in the league. No biggie, it what it is. The beauty of the NFL (unlike other sports) is a small market team can still compete, thanks to revenue-sharing and other things.

[Pablo]

Preseason means jack.

You think those players who already Knew that they had a roster spot were out there playing hard?

Put Croyle in with the starters for a game and lets see how he does.It did mean something for Croyle. All he had to do was make a few good throws and manage the game effectively in one game. Had he performed well in that Saints game he'd be our staring QB right now. The starting job was his for the taking and he didn't seize the oppurtunity. That was you have to do in this league, you gotta perform under pressure, when you know your job is on the line or someone else is gonna get it. Brody looked less than desirable so of course they're gonna throw it back to the weary veteran. Any coaching staff in the league would have. Look at the Donkeys... they pulled Jake Plummer mid-season last year and paid for it. Cutler has the potential to be a good QB, but he's not the Elway of the future.

[kcirnamffoh]

Preseason means jack.

You think those players who already Knew that they had a roster spot were out there playing hard?

Put Croyle in with the starters for a game and lets see how he does.

Preseason means jack. Oh that's brilliant. Sure the games don't count but you can get an idea as to how a particular unknown player is going to react in certain situations. Croyle was in there with first teamers on both sides of the ball. He was inconsistent at best. For you to think that that would change especially at this point in time is ludicrous. I really don't understand your thinking here. It is careless and lacks any logic that I can see. That is if you want your team to have its best chance at winning now when its clearly obvious that they have a shot at their division.

[luv]

Preseason means jack. Oh that's brilliant. Sure the games don't count but you can get an idea as to how a particular unknown player is going to react in certain situations. Croyle was in there with first teamers on both sides of the ball. He was inconsistent at best. For you to think that that would change especially at this point in time is ludicrous. I really don't understand your thinking here. It is careless and lacks any logic that I can see. That is if you want your team to have its best chance at winning now when its clearly obvious that they have a shot at their division.
Off topic. Are you a Chiefs fan? I don't ask because of the subject matter of what you say. You keeping saying "your team". Just wondering is all.

[kcirnamffoh]

All I heard during preseason is that it doesn't mean jack. If you want to look at preseason games, Huard wasn't exactly impressive for the time he did play.

Yeah but you at least know more about Huard based on his performance last year. Huard wasn't playing any preseason snaps to be judged by. It was only to give him some real time reps.

Croyle was given every opportunity to show that he could perform under pressure, exhibit some consistency by not making too many mental errors. Well he made too many. He lost the job.

Now at what point have you seen him earn it back all the sudden?

[luv]

Yeah but you at least know more about Huard based on his performance last year. Huard wasn't playing any preseason snaps to be judged by. It was only to give him some real time reps.

Croyle was given every opportunity to show that he could perform under pressure, exhibit some consistency by not making too many mental errors. Well he made too many. He lost the job.

Now at what point have you seen him earn it back all the sudden?
In my eyes, it was two backups competing for the spot. It wasn't automatically his to lose. I wish Croyle had played better. I would love to see him out there with the other younger guys. That's not going to happen this year. I just get tired of everyone saying how great Huard is when he's not. I don't think he fears losing his spot to Croyle anymore, so I don't see why people still have to be so "in your face" on either side of the issue.

[ILChief]

He did. Huard didn't even play the 3rd game (or the 4th, IIRC).

You mean when Larry Johnson was holding out, Damien McIntosh was hurt, and Dwayne Bowe didn't know the playbook?

[Pablo]

In my eyes, it was two backups competing for the spot. It wasn't automatically his to lose. I wish Croyle had played better. I would love to see him out there with the other younger guys. That's not going to happen this year. I just get tired of everyone saying how great Huard is when he's not. I don't think he fears losing his spot to Croyle anymore, so I don't see why people still have to be so "in your face" on either side of the issue.Some people think Croyle= Magical Cure and as soon as we start him our offensive line will play consistently, our recievers will get even more open and LJ will rush for 300 yards a game while Croyle passes for 600. They also believe if we started Croyle our coordinators and coaches would be willing to let him throw the ball 30+ times a game. If Croyle threw the ball 30 times a game, I'm confident he'd have at least 2 picks a game. And in all reality, we'd just run the ball even more with a rookie QB in there. If Croyle does start, he won't be the magic spark, he'll be the next captain checkdown in this offensive scheme and LJ will get the ball 35 times a game instead of 24. It's just a heated issue as to where people think the Chiefs problems really stem from.

[kcirnamffoh]

Off topic. Are you a Chiefs fan? I don't ask because of the subject matter of what you say. You keeping saying "your team". Just wondering is all.

I am a Chiefs' fan. It's not my team, its just the team I grew up with. I don't use the word we when I talk about them cause I don't have any influence on what they do.

I was born and raised in KC, although I have not lived there for over 20 years and no longer have any relatives there. I guess you could say I was imprinted. I have no choice. I have put too much emotional energy into the Chiefs for me to adopt another team. Might as well stick with them.

I really don't like Huard either. He is limited but he is staying within his limits which allows the offense to find some consistency. I want the Chiefs to be in it until the end. I don't want them to sacrifice their season to give Croyle experience even though it might be beneficial for the future. But the key words here are MIGHT BE. Why throw away this so far for an unknown commodity?

[luv]

Some people think Croyle= Magical Cure and as soon as we start him our offensive line will play consistently, our recievers will get even more open and LJ will rush for 300 yards a game while Croyle passes for 600. They also believe if we started Croyle our coordinators and coaches would be willing to let him throw the ball 30+ times a game. If Croyle threw the ball 30 times a game, I'm confident he'd have at least 2 picks a game. And in all reality, we'd just run the ball even more with a rookie QB in there. If Croyle does start, he won't be the magic spark, he'll be the next captain checkdown in this offensive scheme and LJ will get the ball 35 times a game instead of 24. It's just a heated issue as to where people think the Chiefs problems really stem from.
I think some people just want to see him start in a few games to see how he does. That could be an area we need to better ourselves in during the offseason, but we won't know it until after he starts next year. Maybe once we get a few more games ahead, we'll see him start. If he does poorly, yank him. I don't see that happening (starting him, that is).

[Pablo]

I think some people just want to see him start in a few games to see how he does. That could be an area we need to better ourselves in during the offseason, but we won't know it until after he starts next year. Maybe once we get a few more games ahead, we'll see him start. If he does poorly, yank him. I don't see that happening (starting him, that is).True. But calling for Huard to be outed in the middle of the season is ridiculous. As long as we're winning and we're in the lead in our division there is no need for it. If Damon loses 2 or 3 games on his own..meaning we are leading and/or in good shape the whole game and a mistake or mistakes Huard makes causes us the game then I could see Croyle being given a chance. Put Croyle in now and you're flushing the season down the drain. The Broncos pulled Plummer last year in favor of Cutler, their future QB and what did it get them? They lost their chance at the playoffs and they're 3-3 this year thanks to Jason Elam. Huard doesn't need to come out unless we start tanking and he's the obvious culprit or he gets hurt, which is very plausible given the talent of our line. Then Brody can come in and get the shit knocked outta him for the remainder of the season and we'll have a rookie QB who's scared to death to stand behind our line and we'll be calling for his head next.

[DFB]

You mean when Larry Johnson was holding out, Damien McIntosh was hurt, and Dwayne Bowe didn't know the playbook?

Look, he got twice as many snaps during the preseason. And there's alot of practices and scrimmages that we didn't see. Obviously, he didn't do enough to be the starter. They're not going to name Huard the starter because he's the worse quarterback! Naturally, Brodie has a little more to go. It's ridiculous how so many people are willing to make every excuse imaginable for Brodie, but refuse to even give Damon the benefit of the doubt.

Not to mention that now, we're 2-0 in the division (on the road, something the Chiefs always struggle with) and people are STILL complaining. ROFL

[Molitoth]

which allows the offense to find some consistency.

Consistant at what? lol

[luv]

True. But calling for Huard to be outed in the middle of the season is ridiculous. As long as we're winning and we're in the lead in our division there is no need for it. If Damon loses 2 or 3 games on his own..meaning we are leading and/or in good shape the whole game and a mistake or mistakes Huard makes causes us the game then I could see Croyle being given a chance. Put Croyle in now and you're flushing the season down the drain. The Broncos pulled Plummer last year in favor of Cutler, their future QB and what did it get them? They lost their chance at the playoffs and they're 3-3 this year thanks to Jason Elam. Huard doesn't need to come out unless we start tanking and he's the obvious culprit or he gets hurt, which is very plausible given the talent of our line. Then Brody can come in and get the shit knocked outta him for the remainder of the season and we'll have a rookie QB who's scared to death to stand behind our line and we'll be calling for his head next.
There will always be people calling for someone's head...lol. It's so easy to get caught up in the drama of an argument or debate.

In the Broncos defense, Plummer was tanking. Cutler would come in and play better. It seemed almost logical to put in the guy that was getting more done.

[DFB]

The quarterback of a first place team does not get pulled in favor of a virtual rookie. ROFL Seriously, guys get over it and enjoy the season.

[luv]

Look, he got twice as many snaps during the preseason. And there's alot of practices and scrimmages that we didn't see. Obviously, he didn't do enough to be the starter. They're not going to name Huard the starter because he's the worse quarterback! Naturally, Brodie has a little more to go. It's ridiculous how so many people are willing to make every excuse imaginable for Brodie, but refuse to even give Damon the benefit of the doubt.

Not to mention that now, we're 2-0 in the division (on the road, something the Chiefs always struggle with) and people are STILL complaining. ROFL
Like saying at least Huard plays with heart when he plays poorly? :p

[luv]

The quarterback of a first place team does not get pulled in favor of a virtual rookie. ROFL Seriously, guys get over it and enjoy the season.
I'm sorry. I'd rather have a conversation with someone who's willing to talk rather than laugh at people.

[DFB]

Like saying at least Huard plays with heart when he plays poorly? :p

He's a great game manager. But can make plays when he has to. Did you see the Raiders game? He made two HUGE plays that pretty much saved our ass. Even when his stats are unimpressive, he finds ways to win. Intangibles. Vet savvy. That's why he's the starter. You have to have more than a cannon arm and gunslinging mentality.

[luv]

He's a great game manager. But can make plays when he has to. Did you see the Raiders game? He made two HUGE plays that pretty much saved our ass. Even when his stats are unimpressive, he finds ways to win. Intangibles. Vet savvy. That's why he's the starter. You have to have more than a cannon arm and gunslinging mentality.
I'm just giving you shit.

[DFB]

I'm sorry. I'd rather have a conversation with someone who's willing to talk rather than laugh at people.

I'm sorry, it's just getting completely ridiculous. We're 2-0 in the division, leading the division, beat the rival Raiders, and people can't find anything good to say. If I didn't laugh, I'd cry.

I think everyone here agrees that Brodie will get his shot at being the guy...eventually. But for people to insinuate pulling Damon out would be the best thing right now, when we've won 4 of the last 5...is exactly that, laughable. I guarantee the entire lockerroom is behind Damon. And barring injury or falling out of the playoff chase in the next few weeks, Damon is the starter for the rest of the year. Get over it. Support him. Support the Chiefs. Damn.

[kcirnamffoh]

... I don't see that happening (starting him, that is).

And really it shouldn't. As much as we/I have run Peterson into the ground he is a businessman. It wouldn't be good business for the Chiefs to have started Croyle. If he flopped, Huard would have had two or three fewer games to find some sort of rhythm with the offense. That probably would have been enough to have sank them for the season. Not good business if your in a business that relies on wins.

The way I see it, if Croyle is going to work, he is going to have to learn to be patient. Perfect the play-action, work on his decisiveness. Make every rep in practice count. Use this time to gain awareness, learn nuances and be ready to make good of the opportunities he will be given next off-season. If Croyle doesn't work out, the Chiefs will be back at square one AGAIN with developing a QB. But in the meantime I bet you Edwards will be concentrating on the rest of the offense now that his defense is looking better for the future.

[luv]

I'm sorry, it's just getting completely ridiculous. We're 2-0 in the division, leading the division, beat the rival Raiders, and people can't find anything good to say. If I didn't laugh, I'd cry.

I think everyone here agrees that Brodie will get his shot at being the guy...eventually. But for people to insinuate pulling Damon out would be the best thing right now, when we've won 4 of the last 5...is exactly that, laughable. I guarantee the entire lockerroom is behind Damon. And barring injury or falling out of the playoff chase in the next few weeks, Damon is the starter for the rest of the year. Get over it. Support him. Support the Chiefs. Damn.
I did say that I didn't expect Croyle to start this year, even though I'd like to see it (for curiosity's sake). Unless, of course, you're speaking in general and not just to me. Then I would agree.

[smittysbar]

He's a great game manager. But can make plays when he has to. Did you see the Raiders game? He made two HUGE plays that pretty much saved our ass. Even when his stats are unimpressive, he finds ways to win. Intangibles. Vet savvy. That's why he's the starter. You have to have more than a cannon arm and gunslinging mentality.

More like he ONLY made 2 plays.

Threw a pick, threw two more that should have been if it were not for TG and D.Bowe making a play to keep it out of there hands. That IS NOT a game manager. More picks than TD's = No game manager.

[DFB]

More like he ONLY made 2 plays.

Threw a pick, threw two more that should have been if it were not for TG and D.Bowe making a play to keep it out of there hands. That IS NOT a game manager. More picks than TD's = No game manager.

Two plays that saved the game. You should d/l GC torrent and watch the game again. :hmmm:

[smittysbar]

he wouldn't have had to make two plays to save the game if he could have played half way good at all the rest of the game! So basically he sucked so bad that it came down to two plays.

[luv]

he wouldn't have had to make two plays to save the game if he could have played half way good at all the rest of the game! So basically he sucked so bad that it came down to two plays.
I'm not the biggest Huard fan around, but I wouldn't put the whole game on him, win or lose.

[DFB]

I like how he's not even a "game manager" anymore. It used to be "he's not a starter, he's a game manager". ROFL

"He's a starter."
"NO, NO, NO, he's a game manager."
"Ok, he's a game manager."
"NO, NO, NO, he's not a game manager."
"Ok, he's not a game manager."
"NO, NO, NO, he's not a human."
"Ok, he's an android."
"NO, NO, NO..."

I mean, seriously.

[DFB]

he wouldn't have had to make two plays to save the game if he could have played half way good at all the rest of the game! So basically he sucked so bad that it came down to two plays.

16-31 for 177. That is halfway good. But I guess he doesn't get a free pass like when some other players have 12 yds rushing....

[DFB]

"NO, NO, NO he didn't play halfway good. He was terrible!"

[DFB]

"Ok, he was terrible."

[DFB]

"NO, NO, NO, he wasn't even at the game."


:banghead: :shake:

[kcirnamffoh]

... That IS NOT a game manager. More picks than TD's = No game manager.

I don't know about that. Those throws were just plain bad throws. They weren't bad decisions. Huard obviously is not as accurate as Green was. But Green had two more HOF linemen protecting him. Along with a fullback such as Richardson for most of the time. Huard also has been without his #1 receiver nearly the entire season.

No, Huard isn't flashy or gifted with a lot of down field throwing ability but he has played admirably considering what is around him, the defenses he's played against and the lack of overall game time experience he's had. I would say the Chiefs' offense would be in more disarray if Croyle would have started the season. Huard provides a more reliable interim while the Chiefs build some offensive identity after they've lost so much along their O'line.

[smittysbar]

Your a tool. Around 50% complete.......that is half way good you say? When 40% of those are dumps. Yeah give him his clip board back, so we don't have to be one of the worst O's in the NFL.

Is it all his fault? No, but he is a big problem with it.

This year teams are making us win it with noodle arm, stacking against the run, crashing in on the line of scrimmage. Huard still can't hit his receivers even with 1 on 1 coverage most of the time.

But your right, we could make the playoffs and be completely embarrassed again....wow I know I am looking forward to that!

[crazycoffey]

Children are sleeping can you all keep it down?

Croyle's limited time in two games show me he has a better arm. I'm not on the bandwagon the he should start, but for certain situations maybe Herm should call up Ken Whisenhunt and ask about the term - QB by committee....


I admit I was calling for horrid to leave in the third quarter last sunday.

[DFB]

Your a tool. Around 50% complete.......that is half way good you say? When 40% of those are dumps. Yeah give him his clip board back, so we don't have to be one of the worst O's in the NFL.

Is it all his fault? No, but he is a big problem with it.

This year teams are making us win it with noodle arm, stacking against the run, crashing in on the line of scrimmage. Huard still can't hit his receivers even with 1 on 1 coverage most of the time.

But your right, we could make the playoffs and be completely embarrassed again....wow I know I am looking forward to that!

YOU said halfway good and I gave you his stats. I never said he played a great game stat-wise. I've been saying he played poor, BUT he made plays at critical times to help us WIN the game. CLUTCH.

Yeah, Huard can't hit shit...like that bomb to Bowe for 58. ROFL

Give it a rest. The guy's done nothing but proven everyone wrong. If you want to piss and moan the whole season, fine. I, for one, am going to enjoy the hell out of my season.

[kcirnamffoh]

Your a tool. Around 50% complete.......that is half way good you say? When 40% of those are dumps. Yeah give him his clip board back, so we don't have to be one of the worst O's in the NFL.

Is it all his fault? No, but he is a big problem with it.

This year teams are making us win it with noodle arm, stacking against the run, crashing in on the line of scrimmage. Huard still can't hit his receivers even with 1 on 1 coverage most of the time.

But your right, we could make the playoffs and be completely embarrassed again....wow I know I am looking forward to that!

OK, smitty, put Croyle in ... now what?

[DFB]

I admit I was calling for horrid to leave in the third quarter last sunday.

It was ugly, but he played a clutch 4th.

For years, everyone moaned about the defense. Now we have a defense and everyone moans about not being flashy on offense and media-friendly. All the while, we've quietly won 4 of the last 5, including 2-0 in the division.

[DFB]

Your a tool. Around 50% complete.......that is half way good you say? When 40% of those are dumps. Yeah give him his clip board back, so we don't have to be one of the worst O's in the NFL.

Is it all his fault? No, but he is a big problem with it.

This year teams are making us win it with noodle arm, stacking against the run, crashing in on the line of scrimmage. Huard still can't hit his receivers even with 1 on 1 coverage most of the time.

But your right, we could make the playoffs and be completely embarrassed again....wow I know I am looking forward to that!

I don't know you or know how long you've been a fan, but we've only been to the playoffs twice in the last decade. Getting there two consecutive years is definitely progress. And losing is not a guarantee.

[luv]

Children are sleeping can you all keep it down?

ROFL

You love it, and you know it.

[smittysbar]

YOU said halfway good and I gave you his stats. I never said he played a great game stat-wise. I've been saying he played poor, BUT he made plays at critical times to help us WIN the game. CLUTCH.

Yeah, Huard can't hit shit...like that bomb to Bowe for 58. ROFL

Give it a rest. The guy's done nothing but proven everyone wrong. If you want to piss and moan the whole season, fine. I, for one, am going to enjoy the hell out of my season.

Well go ahead and enjoy our mediocrocy all the way to Not making the playoffs. And a bad Draft pick. Then enjoy going through next year to go through growing pains with a young QB, just to find out he is the future we all hope, when it could have been done this year. Because frankly I don't think Croyle could do any worse than Huard has done at the position, while learning along the way.

[DFB]

Well go ahead and enjoy our mediocrocy all the way to Not making the playoffs. And a bad Draft pick. Then enjoy going through next year to go through growing pains with a young QB, just to find out he is the future we all hope, when it could have been done this year. Because frankly I don't think Croyle could do any worse than Huard has done at the position, while learning along the way.

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/8ball3.gif

Can I borrow yours?

[luv]

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/8ball3.gif

Can I borrow yours?
GAH! Again, no more 8 ball! Please! LMAO

[smittysbar]

I don't know you or know how long you've been a fan, but we've only been to the playoffs twice in the last decade. Getting there two consecutive years is definitely progress. And losing is not a guarantee.

Yeah I have been a fan through it all! That is why I won't just go along with this patch work crap they keep throwing at us. It is people like you that go along with this stuff that makes Carl look like a Saint to the Hunts. Band-aids anyone? Another 15 year plan:rolleyes:

[kcirnamffoh]

It was ugly, but he played a clutch 4th.

For years, everyone moaned about the defense. Now we have a defense and everyone moans about not being flashy on offense and media-friendly. All the while, we've quietly won 4 of the last 5, including 2-0 in the division.

Its funny how for some people an offensive game is so much more fun to watch. There is a lot more up and down the field. Long passes, etc. Its like home-runs are better than a pitchers dual. For simple-minded fans who really don't understand the complexities of the game, you have to give them flashy, big plays to keep them interested. Who cares if it didn't win ONE playoff game or even maybe hurt the team overall, it was flashier.

[Skip Towne]

Its funny how for some people an offensive game is so much more fun to watch. There is a lot more up and down the field. Long passes, etc. Its like home-runs are better than a pitchers dual. For simple-minded fans who really don't understand the complexities of the game, you have to give them flashy, big plays to keep them interested. Who cares if it didn't win ONE playoff game or even maybe hurt the team overall, it was flashier.
Duel

[DFB]

Yeah I have been a fan through it all! That is why I won't just go along with this patch work crap they keep throwing at us. It is people like you that go along with this stuff that makes Carl look like a Saint to the Hunts. Band-aids anyone? Another 15 year plan:rolleyes:

2 playoff appearances in 2 years? That would be 90s-esque. Hardly a band-aid. When alot of teams reload, rebuild, get younger, whatever cliche term you want to use, it's in one fell swoop. KC is not doing that. They are getting younger while keeping a veteran core. It's basically like having your cake and eating it, too. It paid off last year, it's paying off this year (so far), and will pay off down the road. Like him or hate him, CP is no dummy.

[smittysbar]

Its funny how for some people an offensive game is so much more fun to watch. There is a lot more up and down the field. Long passes, etc. Its like home-runs are better than a pitchers dual. For simple-minded fans who really don't understand the complexities of the game, you have to give them flashy, big plays to keep them interested. Who cares if it didn't win ONE playoff game or even maybe hurt the team overall, it was flashier.

It's called balance. And as a long time Chiefs fan, we have been more than patient.

[DFB]

Yeah I have been a fan through it all! That is why I won't just go along with this patch work crap they keep throwing at us. It is people like you that go along with this stuff that makes Carl look like a Saint to the Hunts. Band-aids anyone? Another 15 year plan:rolleyes:

Do you know how Carl Peterson got to KC? Do you know what happened to Steadman/Schaaf?

[smittysbar]

2 playoff appearances in 2 years? That would be 90s-esque. Hardly a band-aid. When alot of teams reload, rebuild, get younger, whatever cliche term you want to use, it's in one fell swoop. KC is not doing that. They are getting younger while keeping a veteran core. It's basically like having your cake and eating it, too. It paid off last year, it's paying off this year (so far), and will pay off down the road. Like him or hate him, CP is no dummy.

Your right, CP is no dummy, he has you and a few others still drinking his kool-aid

[DFB]

They banked the franchise on a young QB named Todd Blackledge who wasn't ready. And it cost them their job. Don't think CP has forgotten that.

[smittysbar]

They banked the franchise on a young QB named Todd Blackledge who wasn't ready. And it cost them their job. Don't think CP has forgotten that.

But is that a good excuse?

Got to get back to tending bar, be on and off

[Skip Towne]

They banked the franchise on a young QB named Todd Blackledge who wasn't ready. And it cost them their job. Don't think CP has forgotten that.
It had a lot more to do with "crowds" of 20,000 and continual losing.

[DFB]

But is that a good excuse?

Got to get back to tending bar, be on and off

No, it's not. And I think CP knows that eventually he has to put his ass out there for a young QB. But I also think he knows that he's not going to until everyone agrees that Croyle's ready. And obviously, he wasn't ready because he's not starting. Rushing him is only going to make him damaged goods. Someday, we'll see Croyle. But until then and until Damon COSTS us a game, I'll support him and I'll support the Chiefs until I blue in the face.

Winning of 4 of the last 5, 2-0 in the division. Not much I can complain about, playcalling notwithstanding.

[DFB]

It had a lot more to do with "crowds" of 20,000 and continual losing.

Exactly. It all comes together. QB --> losing --> shitty crowds --> lost revenue --> no job

[crazycoffey]

It was ugly, but he played a clutch 4th.

For years, everyone moaned about the defense. Now we have a defense and everyone moans about not being flashy on offense and media-friendly. All the while, we've quietly won 4 of the last 5, including 2-0 in the division.


I'm not giving horrid credit, I'm giving the D credit. Horrid can stay the starter, but when he's struggling, it's hard to watch.

[ChiefsCountry]

It was more than just Todd Blackledge that cost Steadman and co.

[baitism]

Many retarded posts

OP posted: Damon nut-swingers need not post

Stop posting!



1. This team will not compete for a SB this year.
2. Huard sucks, and is old as dirt.

With these two things true, only a complete and utter short-sighted moron would want Huard starting. All it does it set us back a few years from possibly being able to field a team capable of reaching the SB.

[DFB]

OP posted: Damon nut-swingers need not post

Stop posting!

1. This team will not compete for a SB this year.
2. Huard sucks, and is old as dirt.

With these two things true, only a complete and utter short-sighted moron would want Huard starting. All it does it set us back a few years from possibly being able to field a team capable of reaching the SB.

I like Brodie. I like Damon. Right now we've won 4 of the last 5. Why the **** would you want to change now? ROFL

[kcirnamffoh]

I like Brodie. I like Damon. Right now we've won 4 of the last 5. Why the **** would you want to change now? ROFL

Wow. You're asking these guys to explain themselves. Futile. All they're really capable of are these cheap shot, baseless and empty kind of hit and run posts. Trying to get them to type anything beyond one sentence is like trying to get a mime to talk.

I mean they're argument has no foundation. Its easy to throw around Huard sucks when absolutely nothing tangible is known about Croyle. Just put him in and damned the torpedoes. It seems they would rather the Chiefs suffer a couple of 1-15 and 3-13 seasons just to test a young QB. That's just not the way it works. Especially when you already have a team that is in the top 12.

[DFB]

It seems they would rather the Chiefs suffer a couple of 1-15 and 3-13 seasons just to test a young QB.

Yep, which is mind-boggling. I'm sure Tony G and all the vets would endorse that. :shake:

[Coach]

It seems they would rather the Chiefs suffer a couple of 1-15 and 3-13 seasons just to test a young QB. That's just not the way it works. Especially when you already have a team that is in the top 12.

I'd rather go 1-15/3-13 to test a young QB, then go 9-7 with a old QB with no upside.

Not to mention that the Chiefs could go to the playoffs again with a 9-7 season, and get blown out of the water aganist the Colts or the Patriots, and lost in the shuffle, King Carl will raise the ticket prices 15% again.

Huard is exactly like Jake Plummer, only without the mobility. I should also mention that he was a 3rd stringer for the New England Patriots, and also was a backup to a all-mighty Jay F**king Fielder, who wasn't worth a shit either.

I know I'm not paying my ticket just to watch Damon Horrid play.

[BigMeatballDave]

Why does everyone equate playing a young QB with a bad season? Huard's play is inconsistant, at best. Fortunately, our D is good enough to make up for his shortcomings. Seriously, how much worse would it be if Brodie started? 7 games and Huard has 7 picks. I think playing Brodie would improve the O. I know Huard will remain the starter as long as he is healthy and winning. If he starts losing games, he's gone...

[ChiefsCountry]

Why does everyone equate playing a young QB with a bad season? Huard's play is inconsistant, at best. Fortunately, our D is good enough to make up for his shortcomings. Seriously, how much worse would it be if Brodie started? 7 games and Huard has 7 picks. I think playing Brodie would improve the O. I know Huard will remain the starter as long as he is healthy and winning. If he starts losing games, he's gone...

Thats my thoughts on the matter.

[RustShack]

Huard sucks, you can't really argue that.

[kcirnamffoh]

I'd rather go 1-15/3-13 to test a young QB, then go 9-7 with a old QB with no upside.

To me what hurts more is going 13-3 with HFA and doing one and done than 9-7 and one and done. But despite that losing-your-lover kind of kick-in-the-gut feel those give me I would never ever EVER want to see the Chiefs be bottom feeders of the league. As far as I am concerned any fan that would be willing to be that bad must be very confused and out of touch.

[kcirnamffoh]

Why does everyone equate playing a young QB with a bad season? Huard's play is inconsistant, at best. Fortunately, our D is good enough to make up for his shortcomings. Seriously, how much worse would it be if Brodie started? 7 games and Huard has 7 picks. I think playing Brodie would improve the O. I know Huard will remain the starter as long as he is healthy and winning. If he starts losing games, he's gone...

Huard's INTs have come because of bad passes mostly. There was a tipped ball that wasn't his fault. A couple of them didn't hurt too much because of either the time of the game or it was like a punt. The INTs that he has thrown have not, for the most part, left points on the field, i.e. redzone turnovers.

You play Croyle and you deal with Red Zone fumbles and interceptions, forcing the defense to protect a short field AND at critical times of the game. I can say this because it is unknown just as you can say Croyle would be the second-coming.

Reality is Chiefs have gone 4-1 and Huard has been the QB. That is reality my friend. Saying that Croyle could have been doing the same thing is mere speculation. I deal with reality. I as a fan do not accept taking loses to break in a new QB. Never ever would I accept losing for any reason.

[FringeNC]

I just don't understand the Huard love. What does he do even adequately?

1) he has a weak arm
2) he is not accurate
3) he does not look off his receivers
4) he has a slow release and slow feet
5) he doesn't read the D well -- he checks down way too often


You Huard supporters who claim he is a good QB -- what traits of being a good quarterback does Huard possess? I am serious. I can not think of one trait in which Huard is even an average for a QB. I'd almost give him that he is willing to stand in there and take a hit, but even that is debatable. Half the time he seems to panic in the face of a pass rush.

Oh, there is one thing he does well. He must throw an extremely catchable ball because EK, TG, and DB have made many a highlight film catch off his passes. Other than that??? What does he do well?

[Pablo]

I'm sure you all remember the last time we did this recently? Rich Gannon is too old, he's a journeyman..damaged goods. Get rid of him and let the young kid play, Grbac has a great upside. Gannon was arguably better than Huard at this point in his career, but subbing a veteran with an untested younger QB failed horribly. Croyle could end up being just as mediocre as Grbac...there's no reason to throw our season away and roll the dice on our 3rd round draft pick. It's not like we drafted Brady Quinn or Vince Young, he's not a high-profile player and he wasn't in college either. He played at a big school, but never really did anything there.

[GarySpFc]

It's not like we drafted Brady Quinn or Vince Young, he's not a high-profile player and he wasn't in college either. He played at a big school, but never really did anything there.

It's very obvious you know squat about Brodie's college playing days.

[Pablo]

It's very obvious you know squat about Brodie's college playing days.He was a good QB at Alabama, he holds quite a few of their school records and he has knee issues. Did they ever make a national title run or hold a top 10 position with Brodie leading them? No.

[GarySpFc]

He was a good QB at Alabama, he holds quite a few of their school records and he has knee issues. Did they ever make a national title run or hold a top 10 position with Brodie leading them? No.Croyle played in 38 games (26 starts) at Alabama and completed 488 of 869 passes for 6,382 yards with 41 touchdowns and 22 interceptions, good for a 128.4 rating. Croyle added 183 carries with four TDs and ranks first in Alabama history with 6,382 passing yards, 488 completions, 869 pass attempts and 41 TDs.

No, Alabama did not win a national title while he was there, but that was due to his playing on lousy teams. He was injured in 2004. Croyle returned fully recovered the next year and started all 12 games in 2005 as a senior, connecting on 202 of 339 passes for 2,499 yards with 14 touchdowns and four interceptions for a 132.8 rating and one rushing TD leading the team to a 10-2 record and a 13-10 victory over Texas Tech in the Cotton Bowl. In his senior year, Croyle was a finalist for the Johnny Unitas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Unitas) Golden Arm Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Unitas_Golden_Arm_Award) as the nation’s outstanding senior quarterback, and he completed 14 of 17 passes for 283 yards with three TDs vs. Florida to be named the Walter Camp Foundation Offensive Player of the Week and the SEC Offensive Player of the Week.

Namath, Stabler, and Shula have all stated Croyle will be a franchise quarterback. After Croyle graduated from high school he was invited to attend the Elite 11, where the top 11 quarterbacks in the country are invited.. Drew Brees was the featured quarterback. When asked to evaluate the talent attending Brees said, "The best quarterback attending was Brodie Croyle, and I am including myself."

[DFB]

He was a good QB at Alabama, he holds quite a few of their school records and he has knee issues. Did they ever make a national title run or hold a top 10 position with Brodie leading them? No.

With his injury history and THIS O-line...I wouldn't WANT Brodie in there. If you "hate" Huard, you should be happy he's in there. He's taking all the shots that Brodie would otherwise.

[DFB]

Namath, Stabler, and Shula have all stated Croyle will be a franchise quarterback.

ROFL Namath and Stabler are UA grads and, if you're referring to Mike Shula...that was his coach. Don Shula...his son is Mike. Of course they are going to say that.

Everyone said Heath Shuler was a franchise QB. In fact, you could have taken out the names in your post and very easily have been confused for Shuler.

[Easy 6]

Croyle played in 38 games (26 starts) at Alabama and completed 488 of 869 passes for 6,382 yards with 41 touchdowns and 22 interceptions, good for a 128.4 rating. Croyle added 183 carries with four TDs and ranks first in Alabama history with 6,382 passing yards, 488 completions, 869 pass attempts and 41 TDs.

No, Alabama did not win a national title while he was there, but that was due to his playing on lousy teams. He was injured in 2004. Croyle returned fully recovered the next year and started all 12 games in 2005 as a senior, connecting on 202 of 339 passes for 2,499 yards with 14 touchdowns and four interceptions for a 132.8 rating and one rushing TD leading the team to a 10-2 record and a 13-10 victory over Texas Tech in the Cotton Bowl. In his senior year, Croyle was a finalist for the Johnny Unitas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Unitas) Golden Arm Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Unitas_Golden_Arm_Award) as the nation’s outstanding senior quarterback, and he completed 14 of 17 passes for 283 yards with three TDs vs. Florida to be named the Walter Camp Foundation Offensive Player of the Week and the SEC Offensive Player of the Week.

Namath, Stabler, and Shula have all stated Croyle will be a franchise quarterback. After Croyle graduated from high school he was invited to attend the Elite 11, where the top 11 quarterbacks in the country are invited.. Drew Brees was the featured quarterback. When asked to evaluate the talent attending Brees said, "The best quarterback attending was Brodie Croyle, and I am including myself."

He garnered all of those accolades behind a Swiss cheese O line to boot.

[DFB]

It's very obvious you know squat about Brodie's college playing days.

Are you comparing Brodie with Quinn and Young? ROFL Seriously, he can play, but there's a reason no one touched him until late 3rd round. Let's don't get crazy here.

[Easy 6]

Are you comparing Brodie with Quinn and Young? ROFL Seriously, he can play, but there's a reason no one touched him until late 3rd round. Let's don't get crazy here.

The reason was injuries...nothing more.

[GarySpFc]

With his injury history and THIS O-line...I wouldn't WANT Brodie in there. If you "hate" Huard, you should be happy he's in there. He's taking all the shots that Brodie would otherwise.

Firstly, it's obvious you are saying that as a Huard fan.

Secondly, Brodie's knees are stronger than ever. He is one tough kid.

[ILChief]

ROFL Namath and Stabler are UA grads and, if you're referring to Mike Shula...that was his coach. Don Shula...his son is Mike. Of course they are going to say that.

Everyone said Heath Shuler was a franchise QB. In fact, you could have taken out the names in your post and very easily have been confused for Shuler.

That's three more people than have said Huard is a franchise QB

[Pablo]

Croyle played in 38 games (26 starts) at Alabama and completed 488 of 869 passes for 6,382 yards with 41 touchdowns and 22 interceptions, good for a 128.4 rating. Croyle added 183 carries with four TDs and ranks first in Alabama history with 6,382 passing yards, 488 completions, 869 pass attempts and 41 TDs.

No, Alabama did not win a national title while he was there, but that was due to his playing on lousy teams. He was injured in 2004. Croyle returned fully recovered the next year and started all 12 games in 2005 as a senior, connecting on 202 of 339 passes for 2,499 yards with 14 touchdowns and four interceptions for a 132.8 rating and one rushing TD leading the team to a 10-2 record and a 13-10 victory over Texas Tech in the Cotton Bowl. In his senior year, Croyle was a finalist for the Johnny Unitas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Unitas) Golden Arm Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Unitas_Golden_Arm_Award) as the nation’s outstanding senior quarterback, and he completed 14 of 17 passes for 283 yards with three TDs vs. Florida to be named the Walter Camp Foundation Offensive Player of the Week and the SEC Offensive Player of the Week.

Namath, Stabler, and Shula have all stated Croyle will be a franchise quarterback. After Croyle graduated from high school he was invited to attend the Elite 11, where the top 11 quarterbacks in the country are invited.. Drew Brees was the featured quarterback. When asked to evaluate the talent attending Brees said, "The best quarterback attending was Brodie Croyle, and I am including myself."I'm glad he had such impressive stats in College. He still wasn't a winner, and that's what gets you respect in college football. Sure, he may have played on crappy teams but he wasn't a proven winner and he has mobility issues. I think he has the possibility to be a good QB in this league but I don't feel any pressure to play him right away. He isn't a first round franchise QB.. our first rounder from 06(Tamba Hali) is playing well. Other notable first rounders, Vince Young, Jay Cutler, Matt Leinart are/were playing. I think either of those three have a better upside than Brodie and obviously there is a reason he was picked up in the 3rd round with the 85th pick. He's a liability with his bum knee and our line would get him destroyed. All that aside, college stats don't transfer to NFL smarts, he made a few incredibly dumb throws in the preseason that cost him the starting job. Brodie isn't all he's cracked up to be, at least not yet. He needs to mature, and pray we get an offensive line that can help him develop.

[DFB]

Firstly, it's obvious you are saying that as a Huard fan.

Secondly, Brodie's knees are stronger than ever. He is one tough kid.

I'm not a Huard "fan". I'm a Chiefs fan. I support Damon Huard, seeing he is the starting quarterback. If Bea Arthur were the QB, I'd support her, too. I'm about winning. And right now, we've won 4 of the last 5, including 2 division games on the road.

I know all about Brodie. Every year he was hurt or banged up. That is one reason why he slipped to the third round. If he was taking the shots that Damon is taking right now, "the future" might end pretty quick.

[Easy 6]

That's three more people than have said Huard is a franchise QB

PLADOW!!!

[DFB]

That's three more people than have said Huard is a franchise QB

Huard's not a franchise quarterback, you're right. Welcome to 2007.

[Pablo]

The reason was injuries...nothing more.The most important ability a player has is his availability. Behind this line, Brodie would probably be knocked out of commission in a few games. His durability would be an issue with that knee and this line.

[Easy 6]

DFB is Hootie, i'm sure of it.

[DFB]

That's three more people than have said Huard is a franchise QB

How many people said Heath Shuler was a franchise QB? What about Ryan Leaf? David Carr? Chris Simms? None panned out. Brodie may in fact wind up being. Hey, I hope so. But don't take two Alabama grads saying he's a franchise QB as the gospel.

[DFB]

DFB is Hootie, i'm sure of it.
:ZZZ:

[Skip Towne]

I'm not a Huard "fan". I'm a Chiefs fan. I support Damon Huard, seeing he is the starting quarterback. If Bea Arthur were the QB, I'd support her, too. I'm about winning. And right now, we've won 4 of the last 5, including 2 division games on the road.

I know all about Brodie. Every year he was hurt or banged up. That is one reason why he slipped to the third round. If he was taking the shots that Damon is taking right now, "the future" might end pretty quick.
And then we would know we needed to draft a QB. This way, we might not know for a year or more. For what? A couple of extra wins? (not guaranteed at all) I'm tired of "grooming" a 34 year old never has been.

[Easy 6]

The most important ability a player has is his availability. Behind this line, Brodie would probably be knocked out of commission in a few games. His durability would be an issue with that knee and this line.

His knee has had 2 & half years to heal, not to mention the rigorous pro weight program that undoubtedly has strengthened everything that supports it.

He's TWICE as mobile as Damon, he would actually be better behind this line because of it.

[Easy 6]

:ZZZ:

I knew it.

[DFB]

And then we would know we needed to draft a QB. This way, we might not know for a year or more. For what? A couple of extra wins? (not guaranteed at all) I'm tired of "grooming" a 34 year old never has been.

No, for starters, you take the truckload of draft picks we're going to have and retool the offensive line.

[DFB]

I knew it.

ROFL Are you being serious?

[DFB]

There's one thing that everyone seems to have forgotten here. Brodie had the edge going into TC and preseason. It was his to lose. He got twice the reps, twice the game snaps in preseason. Obviously, the coaching staff didn't see enough to make him the starter. They didn't make Huard the starter because he was the "worse" QB of the two. Apparently, Brodie didn't do enough to convince them. That's not Huard's fault.

And now Huard is winning games, what makes you think ANYONE at 1 Arrowhead Drive would make a switch now? You're going to have to wait until next year or at the very earliest weeks 16-17 if we fall out of the playoff chase.

[Pablo]

His knee has had 2 & half years to heal, not to mention the rigorous pro weight program that undoubtedly has strengthened everything that supports it.

He's TWICE as mobile as Damon, he would actually be better behind this line because of it.Sure, his knee isn't weak, but it will never be 100% like it was before his surgery.. and we've all seen the free shots DE's and CB's get on Huard. We know Larry isn't going to block anyone, and MacIntosh definately isn't protecting his blind side. I don't want Brody in until he has an outstanding camp and a brilliant preseason, coupled with a new offensive line he could progress very well. Now is not the time..not with this line..not when we're in the division lead.

[DFB]

Sure, his knee isn't weak, but it will never be 100% like it was before his surgery.. and we've all seen the free shots DE's and CB's get on Huard. We know Larry isn't going to block anyone, and MacIntosh definately isn't protecting his blind side. I don't want Brody in until he has an outstanding camp and a brilliant preseason, coupled with a new offensive line he could progress very well. Now is not the time..not with this line..not when we're in the division lead.

That's what I'm saying. Why rush it? If we were losing and the season was falling apart, it would be one thing, but we're not. We have the division lead almost half through the season!

[ILChief]

Huard's not a franchise quarterback, you're right. Welcome to 2007.


so why waste time on him if we know he's not the answer?

[GarySpFc]

I'm glad he had such impressive stats in College. He still wasn't a winner, and that's what gets you respect in college football. Sure, he may have played on crappy teams but he wasn't a proven winner and he has mobility issues. I think he has the possibility to be a good QB in this league but I don't feel any pressure to play him right away. He isn't a first round franchise QB.. our first rounder from 06(Tamba Hali) is playing well. Other notable first rounders, Vince Young, Jay Cutler, Matt Leinart are/were playing. I think either of those three have a better upside than Brodie and obviously there is a reason he was picked up in the 3rd round with the 85th pick. He's a liability with his bum knee and our line would get him destroyed. All that aside, college stats don't transfer to NFL smarts, he made a few incredibly dumb throws in the preseason that cost him the starting job. Brodie isn't all he's cracked up to be, at least not yet. He needs to mature, and pray we get an offensive line that can help him develop.

Brodie's 10-2 record and a Cotton Bowl win behind a lousy O-Line shows he is a winner.

I have been following the Chiefs since they moved to Kansas City, and it's a tossup if Huard or Blackledge is the worst QB ever to play for the Chiefs.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Fellas, I highly recommend CPiggy.

It has made this thread and many others bearable.

[DFB]

so why waste time on him if we know he's not the answer?

Wasting time??!!?

We're first place in the division! If we get to the playoffs, that's another game of playoff experience for this young D, for Bowe, for the coaching staff, for everyone. That's hardly a waste. And if we win the division, we will get a winnable home playoff game.

[DFB]

Brodie's 10-2 record and a Cotton Bowl win behind a lousy O-Line shows he is a winner.

I have been following the Chiefs since they moved to Kansas City, and it's a tossup if Huard or Blackledge is the worst QB ever to play for the Chiefs.

Absolutely Todd Blackledge. Ironically enough, there are some that have compared Brodie to Blackledge in terms of being highly touted coming out of college...

[ILChief]

Brodie's 10-2 record and a Cotton Bowl win behind a lousy O-Line shows he is a winner.

I have been following the Chiefs since they moved to Kansas City, and it's a tossup if Huard or Blackledge is the worst QB ever to play for the Chiefs.

I'd rather have Grbac than Huard. At least Grbac can throw a spiral.

[GarySpFc]

Sure, his knee isn't weak, but it will never be 100% like it was before his surgery.. and we've all seen the free shots DE's and CB's get on Huard. We know Larry isn't going to block anyone, and MacIntosh definately isn't protecting his blind side. I don't want Brody in until he has an outstanding camp and a brilliant preseason, coupled with a new offensive line he could progress very well. Now is not the time..not with this line..not when we're in the division lead.

After recovery from ACL surgery the knee is actually stronger than prior to the injury.

[ILChief]

Wasting time??!!?

We're first place in the division! If we get to the playoffs, that's another game of playoff experience for this young D, for Bowe, for the coaching staff, for everyone. That's hardly a waste. And if we win the division, we will get a winnable home playoff game.


We'd be in first with Brodie Croyle and we may be averaging more than 14 pts a game. Huard has had little to do with our leading the division. It's been 90% Defense.

[GarySpFc]

Huard has had little to do with our leading the division. It's been 90% Defense.

True! The Chiefs have won in spite of Huard, not because of his playing.

[Hammock Parties]

We'd be in first with Brodie Croyle

First place in what? Interceptions?

[ILChief]

First place in what? Interceptions?

I love how you act like Damon never turns the ball over. If our QB is gonna have more picks than TDs, why not play the young guy who actually has a chance to improve?

NEWSFLASH-------HUARD HAS MORE INTERCEPTIONS THAN TOUCHDOWNS SO YOUR ARGUMENT THAT CROYLE WILL TURN THE BALL OVER IS CRAP

[Hammock Parties]

I love how you act like Damon never turns the ball over. If our QB is gonna have more picks than TDs, why not play the young guy who actually has a chance to improve?

NEWSFLASH-------HUARD HAS MORE INTERCEPTIONS THAN TOUCHDOWNS SO YOUR ARGUMENT THAT CROYLE WILL TURN THE BALL OVER IS CRAP

No, not really. I've broken this down before, but four of Huard's interceptions are either not his fault, or COMPLETELY meaningless. Only three have hurt us.

What I'm scared of is Brodie coming in a game and flipping the ball to the other team on the 20 two or three times, or even worse, throwing a pick six. With no running game, the chances of him doing that increase significantly. Huard has been extremely careful with the football all season long. He's been hit so much I'm surprised he's only lost one fumble.

[Pablo]

Brodie's 10-2 record and a Cotton Bowl win behind a lousy O-Line shows he is a winner.

I have been following the Chiefs since they moved to Kansas City, and it's a tossup if Huard or Blackledge is the worst QB ever to play for the Chiefs.
So of his 26 starts, he won ten that year and what the year before...4 maybe 6?? Wow..that's unimpressive. One winning year and a sub-bowl don't make you a winner. I have a hard time believing Huard is worse than Bono or Grbac. And I'm sure that O-Line had tremendous pressure from a collegiate rush.. and big name programs like Alabama play 2 or 3 real games a year and play 2 or 3 games against teams named Southwest Eastern Alabama State Community College. 10-2 one year doesn't mean a thing, and it especially doesn't mean much when this amazing QB was given all the oppurtunities in the world to take the starting job from an aging back-up and he couldn't. I'm sure the coaching staff knows a bit more about the potential and progress of Croyle as a pro-style QB than anyone on this message board and I'm damn sure if Croyle was starting right now we'd be pissed at how lousy he is behind this horrible line, uninspired running back and lame offensive coordinator. Do we really wanna throw him in based on one shining season where he won the Cotton Bowl and destroy his confidence and future. Patience..the season will be over in 3 months..hopefully 4 months, and Brodie will have his shot AGAIN to uproot Huard.

[ILChief]

No, not really. I've broken this down before, but four of Huard's interceptions are either not his fault, or COMPLETELY meaningless. Only three have hurt us.

What I'm scared of is Brodie coming in a game and flipping the ball to the other team on the 20 two or three times, or even worse, throwing a pick six. With no running game, the chances of him doing that increase significantly. Huard has been extremely careful with the football all season long. He's been hit so much I'm surprised he's only lost one fumble.

That works both ways. If you don't want to count picks that you don't think is Huards fault, you should give him one for when Bowe had to play corner on that wobbly duck he threw this week.

[Hammock Parties]

That works both ways.

Not really.

[ILChief]

Not really.

Yes, really

[Hammock Parties]

Yes, really

Nope. Blaming Huard for something that didn't happen is retarded.

I am confident that if Brodie came in he would turn the ball over more and the turnovers would hurt more. Right now, Huard's turnovers aren't hurting the team.

[ILChief]

Nope. Blaming Huard for something that didn't happen is retarded.

I am confident that if Brodie came in he would turn the ball over more and the turnovers would hurt more. Right now, Huard's turnovers aren't hurting the team.

what do you mean something that didn't happen? He hit the damn Raiders CB in stride and Bowe broke the pass up? Does Huard's jizz taste that good? And turnovers don't hurt because Damon throws them but if Brodie threw them they would?

[Hammock Parties]

And turnovers don't hurt because Damon throws them but if Brodie threw them they would?

Consider the types of turnovers we are talking about here. Damon threw an interception against Jacksonville that came when the game was out of reach. That is a meaningless turnover. He did the same thing against Houston. There's two meaningless turnovers.

What I am afraid of is Brodie coming in and throwing an interception from our own 20-yard line on the first possession. He did that twice in preseason. That is the kind of turnover that loses games.

[ILChief]

Consider the types of turnovers we are talking about here. Damon threw an interception against Jacksonville that came when the game was out of reach. That is a meaningless turnover. He did the same thing against Houston. There's two meaningless turnovers.

What I am afraid of is Brodie coming in and throwing an interception from our own 20-yard line on the first possession. He did that twice in preseason. That is the kind of turnover that loses games.

Maybe Croyle would throw more interceptions, but I am quite sure he'd have alot more Touchdowns than 6. Hell, Huard only has 5 more touchdowns than Croyle and Croyle's probably only played one full quarter.

[DFB]

What I am afraid of is Brodie coming in and throwing an interception from our own 20-yard line on the first possession. He did that twice in preseason. That is the kind of turnover that loses games.

Or a pick in the endzone.

[GarySpFc]

Firstly, the SEC is considered by most to be the strongest conference in the nation.

Secondly, in 2005 Alabama played LSU, Auburn, Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Utah State, Arkansas, South Carolina, Texas Tech, Southern Miss, and Middle Tennessee. That works out to at least 7 strong teams they played.

[GarySpFc]

Or a pick in the endzone.

With Horrid you get a choice of fumbles or interceptions.

[ILChief]

Or a pick in the endzone.

or a touchdown, and perish the though we actually score more than 17 points in one game

[Hammock Parties]

Maybe Croyle would throw more interceptions, but I am quite sure he'd have alot more Touchdowns than 6.

I doubt that. Without a running game to extend drives, neither quarterback is going to throw many touchdowns.

[ILChief]

I doubt that. Without a running game to extend drives, neither quarterback is going to throw many touchdowns.

we've ran the ball the last two weeks

[DFB]

Firstly, the SEC is considered by most to be the strongest conference in the nation.

Secondly, in 2005 Alabama played LSU, Auburn, Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Utah State, Arkansas, South Carolina, Texas Tech, Southern Miss, and Middle Tennessee. That works out to at least 7 strong teams they played.

Only 5 of those went to a bowl game.

[Hammock Parties]

we've ran the ball the last two weeks

Our running offense was good for one half the last two weeks, that's it.

It stunk in Oakland.

[kcfanXIII]

Nope. Blaming Huard for something that didn't happen is retarded.

I am confident that if Brodie came in he would turn the ball over more and the turnovers would hurt more. Right now, Huard's turnovers aren't hurting the team.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

its like arguing with a child, when are you gonna take your ball and go home?

you CANNOT take away interceptions because they are meaningless, or garbage time. i bet you'd take away brodie's shutout avoiding TD drive against JAX due to the fact it was garbage time. oh wait, i don't bet with welchers. if you take away picks to justify your obsession with damon "GOD ****ING DAMMIT" huard, then croyle fans are allowed to give him picks for ones that should have been.

[DFB]

With Horrid you get a choice of fumbles or interceptions.

Huard has never thrown a pick 6 or fumbled for a defensive touchdown. Nice try, but IN-COM-PLETE.

[Hammock Parties]

you CANNOT take away interceptions because they are meaningless, or garbage time.

Sure you can. If we are going to sit here and bitch about Huard's interceptions, you can't just look at the stat sheet alone and pronounce judgment. How and why did the turnovers occur? What effect did they really have on the game?

Huard is NOT turning the ball over too much. Herm Edwards said as much.

[Pablo]

Firstly, the SEC is considered by most to be the strongest conference in the nation.

Secondly, in 2005 Alabama played LSU, Auburn, Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Utah State, Arkansas, South Carolina, Texas Tech, Southern Miss, and Middle Tennessee. That works out to at least 7 strong teams they played.Fair enough.. that is stiff competition... If Brodie can rekindle whatever magic he had in college next preseason then he deserves the job. He shouldn't be given the job because Damon Huard is leading a 4-3 team with a division lead behind a horrendous line. Huard isn't the greatest QB in the game, he's adequate. With the kind of pass rush every defense has been getting on us, do you really think Brodie winging the ball while falling on his ass is the answer? Huard may checkdown, but that's habitual. When he gets more than .3 seconds to fire the ball off, he's good enough to not turn the ball over. Everybody thinks Huard is standing back with Roaf, Shields and Waters blocking and he can't hit a wide open man 5 yards upfield. There are only a couple QB's in the game who read the defense well enough and adjust mid-play and hit their man in stride 70 yards downfield. Unfortunately, we'll never have the luxury of starting Brady or Manning. Huard isn't a flashy QB. He makes short throws because that's what the defense gives him, and it works with our defense playing as well as they have.

[kcfanXIII]

Sure you can. If we are going to sit here and bitch about Huard's interceptions, you can't just look at the stat sheet alone and pronounce judgment. How and why did the turnovers occur? What effect did they really have on the game?

Huard is NOT turning the ball over too much. Herm Edwards said as much.

:shake: your credibility shrinks every day.

why did most of the "garbage time" picks occur? because huard is incapable of moving this offense with any consistency.