Getting cold in KC - HVAC question

[ccsells]

So... I bought this house north of the Nelson in KCMO in April, fixer-upper and all. The first month I moved in, this April, it got darn chilly - and I cranked up that furnace. Like $250 for the month on gas. Killed the pilot and the valve after I got that bill.

Now it's getting cold.

About the house - built in 1905, little to no insulation, two story, 2K or so square feet. Brick first level, siding up from that (probably asbestos or something...). Only full bath is on level 2. Existing furnace is an old Homart, circa 1965, 160,000 Btu :shake:. Window unit AC. Windows suck, horribly.

Anyways, here's my quandry - I have a gas fireplace in a room off the main areas on the first floor. Think it'd be cheaper to run this fireplace 5PM to 6AM and move the bed into said room (using the excuse for females that I'm redoing the second floor for the winter - and take advantage of the romantic setting :) ) - with a little space heater in the upstairs bath to avoid freezing, than running that big bitch furnace? I have no idea how much gas these fireplaces run on. Stop being a cheap bastard and buy a new unit now? I plan on retrofitting some AC in here at some point - do I need to do anything about that now if I buy a new unit (have floor vents - really don't want to redo the vent system)?

This house is a flip-plan-type-thing but I need to be smart fiscal-wise in the meantime.

Thanks guys.

Though I'm not in SoCAL - thought maybe someone here could relate.

[Phobia]

Heat will rise. Being on the 2nd floor is probably a better move for you. Put $1500 into having a guy insulate the attic is probably your best move at this point. I'm guessing you'll recoup that investment through your bills quickly and if you don't, you will on resale. I might know a guy who can do the insulation cheap. If the windows suck, you should either replace them or put plastic up for the winter. You'll probably recoup window replacement on resale as well - assuming you didn't give too much for the place. In this market, buyers are more aware of things like windows, new furnaces, and sufficient insulation.

Your AC will run through the existing ventilation system so no worries there.

[ccsells]

I was thinking about that thing exactly Phobia - heat rises - I can heat this lower level all I want and it will just go up. My whole thing is - replace furnace - might as well do windows and new insulation, and since I haven't CAD'd this house up yet - I really don't know my plans. I'd imagine that I can do minor vent relocation - so I'm kind of flexible there.

I guess I was hoping someone would say: yah that fireplace will be like $50 a month. Probably not.

You saying that my heating ducts are good (ok) for CA makes me a very happy man.

Time to redo everything. I will be putting threads out here and there for the CP crowd, no favors, but will always take the lowest best bid.

[Phobia]

Once you insulate and upgrade your windows you may find that old furnace to be sufficient. Who knows?

[ccsells]

Sufficient vs Efficient... an old Homart - 160K for 2K, I guess it depends on where the housing market stands when I sell - rent it out to art students = keep the beast; for a single family, I'd think they'd want something... else?

[Phobia]

How long are you planning to stay? You can generally recoup an insulation investment in 2-3 years.

[ccsells]

Just want to be here 2 years - enough so as not to take a hit on the taxes.

[Phobia]

I'd pull the trigger on insulation yesterday.

[Valiant]

IF you have not replaced the windows with energy efficient ones I would cover them up so no heat is lost.. If you have a darkside that is always in shade leave them covered 24/7.. The other windows might be fine during the day..

You should know where all the cold spots are by now from cracks in windows and under doors and block those up as well..

[ccsells]

I can throw that insulation up myself though right? When I was up on the 3rd level attic - it seemed like there was at least 12" of free-floating fiberglass, mixed with wood shavings, like the roof replacement dropped alot of crap into there. Seemed even - ideas on checking it?

I know just about every hot & cold spot. There are lots of them. The big problem with my plan is the huge stairwell - and the poltergeists.

[plbrdude]

Sufficient vs Efficient... an old Homart - 160K for 2K, I guess it depends on where the housing market stands when I sell - rent it out to art students = keep the beast; for a single family, I'd think they'd want something... else?


more than likely 1965 vintage gas furnace is on borrowed time. the heat exchanger has expanded and contracted countless times. when it cracks it will inject co2 into the home. a house that old,(and probably loose) you may not know it till you have to have work done to it. if you plan on running it get it checked by a reputable company.

[Phobia]

I can throw that insulation up myself though right? When I was up on the 3rd level attic - it seemed like there was at least 12" of free-floating fiberglass, mixed with wood shavings, like the roof replacement dropped alot of crap into there. Seemed even - ideas on checking it?

I know just about every hot & cold spot. There are lots of them. The big problem with my plan is the huge stairwell - and the poltergeists.
Sure, you can do it. It's a PITA but you can do it.

[ccsells]

No exchanger - just forced air.

I'm quite new at this please just help me out it I'm missing something.

[ccsells]

Sure, you can do it. It's a PITA but you can do it.

I've got that sweet ladder Tim the Toolman Taylor's sidekick, 12:00 shadow, sells. Got it covered... kind of.

[Chief Roundup]

more than likely 1965 vintage gas furnace is on borrowed time. the heat exchanger has expanded and contracted countless times. when it cracks it will inject co2 into the home. a house that old,(and probably loose) you may not know it till you have to have work done to it. if you plan on running it get it checked by a reputable company.
If there is a crack in the heat exchanger most HVACR will and by code would have to condemn that unit.

[ROYC75]

Good windows will help alot on the heating and raise the value of the home.......

[plbrdude]

No exchanger - just forced air.

I'm quite new at this please just help me out it I'm missing something.


the heat exchangers are in the furnace. they transport the spent fuel gasses to the flue. the blower blows the air past these cells and the air is warmed. when they crack the burnt fuel gasses can be introduced into the reciculating house air.

[ccsells]

the heat exchangers are in the furnace. they transport the spent fuel gasses to the flue. the blower blows the air past these cells and the air is warmed. when they crack the burnt fuel gasses can be introduced into the reciculating house air.

Aha - I was thinking radiant heaters. Gotcha. I did run this thing earlier this year and didn't smell gas.

[Phobia]

Aha - I was thinking radiant heaters. Gotcha. I did run this thing earlier this year and didn't smell gas.
That's not a good enough test and you're testing for the wrong thing. Do you have a co2 detector in the house? If not, buy one. They're cheap.

[PastorMikH]

On our house we bought last jan, (built 1980) we had a fireplace with a gas line to it. I put in a gas log set. I used the gas log set one month. I plan on putting the gas log set in a garage sale. My gas bill was about $100 higher with the gas log set going that it had been the month prior. I will go back to wood when I want a fire in the fireplace from now on. (Incedentally, our fireplace is set up with an air chamber around the firebox that drafts right into the furnace system).


Your best CHEAP/temporary option is to put platic over the windows. In the older housed we used to live in, I put a sheet of plastic all the way over the windows with a strip about 6 inches out from the window on the wall all the way around the window. This stops the wind blowing through the gaps between the window and wall as well as the window leaks themselves. I used to get kits at Walmart that had a plastic zip-lock style locking system with clear plastic that allowed me to still see out the window and also re-use the setup from year to year. One side of the locking strip attaches to the wall with some double adhesive tape.

You can also go to the outside of the house and do lots of caulking around windows and doors. Even our house needed fresh caulk around the windows and doors. You might also look the foundation over for cracks - caulk any you see with the caulk for foundations.

Also, an old trick my grandparents used to do was to keep a rolled up towel at the base of all exterior doors.


Even with poorly insulated walls/attic you can cut down a lot on the heating bills by stopping the drafts. Though I would definately suggest you taking care of the insulation when you can afford it. It seems expensive to have someone come in but getting walls and attic insulated can do wonders for the heating bills.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

fireplaces are terrible for efficiency.

[el borracho]

Windows suck, horribly.
That is probably a bigger problem than the age of the furnace. Look into replacing those with energy-efficient windows asap.

[plbrdude]

That is probably a bigger problem than the age of the furnace. Look into replacing those with energy-efficient windows asap.


my point is make sure the furnace is safe to run. if you make the house tighter and have a co2 leak greater is the chance of co2 poisoning. sometimes co2 poisoning means death.

[ccsells]

On our house we bought last jan, (built 1980) we had a fireplace with a gas line to it. I put in a gas log set. I used the gas log set one month. I plan on putting the gas log set in a garage sale. My gas bill was about $100 higher with the gas log set going that it had been the month prior. I will go back to wood when I want a fire in the fireplace from now on. (Incedentally, our fireplace is set up with an air chamber around the firebox that drafts right into the furnace system).


...

Even with poorly insulated walls/attic you can cut down a lot on the heating bills by stopping the drafts. Though I would definately suggest you taking care of the insulation when you can afford it. It seems expensive to have someone come in but getting walls and attic insulated can do wonders for the heating bills.

Most of you all won't care about his post - no prob - just let it slide down in pages. Just wanted to throw out a heads up that I found an awesome HVAC contractor that is selling his wares cheap (Some AC units are becoming obsolete after Jan 1st and some guys are trying to unload them) as a reference, my total - after installation - bill was less than 4K, with new 92% variable speed furnace and 13 SEER (this is the 1/1/08 quandry) installation. Rare to find good guys - but I believe I did.

Anyways... haven't seen the fireplace bill for the month, but I think it should have been cheap - I closed off some rooms, etc.

Go Jayhawks.

[dr00d]

I've never understood why someone would buy a house with the intent to 'flip it' and not already have a plan and everything they are going to have laid out, day one. There should be no questions here. You knew the heater was a piece of shit, so why did you sit on it or why did you not have a backup plan?

[Moon§hiner]

Hate to correct the CO2 comments, but its CO guys...Carbon Monoxide..We all give off CO2...carbon dioxide.....if you are going to give advice at least know what the heck you are talking about. To the OP, hope you get more than you paid for...lowest bid isn't always the best way to go for one of the most important factors in a comfortable home.

[Phobia]

Hate to correct the CO2 recommendations but its CO guys...Carbon Monoxide....if you are going to give advice at least know what the heck you are talking about.

You're right. I know it's Carbon MONOxide. I don't know how the symbol for carbon DIoxide came off my fingers to the keyboard.

In any case, I'm glad he got a good deal on a replacement. Sounds like things are better.