OL Question

[PastorMikH]

Our OL definately needs some major upgrading. Who on our current OL shouldn't have to be upgraded next season.


Thinking about this on another thread...

Welbourne was decent at RT when he was on the 'Roids, dude serioulsy needs more 'roids.

Weigman is undersized. When he came to the Chiefs at 28 he could make up for his lack of size but at 34 is he losing too much?

Waters - probably our best OLman but is he really that good or did having Shields, Roaf, a young Wiegman and Welbourne on juice help him to look better than he is?

Terry - I did not get to watch the game, but from what I heard on the internet feed, getting rid of I-65 may have been a mistake.

Sviteck - sure heard a lot of griping about him - 1st start jitters or another wasted pick?

Turley? The dude should have stayed retired


McIntosh?



Now, who's going to be available? Draft? FA? Trade?

[Mr. Arrowhead]

I would Keep waters and i might give wiegman another year. The rest are trash

[the Talking Can]

if you include backups, we need 6 new OL....outside of Waters and maybe Niswanger we need to replace everyone...

[suds79]

The way I see it, we should have only two for sure starters next year of this current group.

LG - Waters
RT - McIntosh

Everybody else needs be be filled 1st through the draft and then FA.

As for Casey? He's done good work for us in the past but he's not getting any better and he seemingly gets manhandled every week.

It's just unacceptable IMO to have an O-linemen under 300. That just won't cut it now a days.

[Extra Point]

Next year, we win two more than this year. Herm's last year will be 2009, as he will prove that he can't make the turnaround with the new-player turnover. (Holthus' "Minute with Mitch" put it bluntly: We have too many day-old-doughnuts, and that we have a bare number of guys that will be back next year.)

I saw Cutler throwing the quick slant, sucking in the safeties, then throwing the out pattern. Our CB's play too soft, and our O doesn't get the ball thrown quickly enough.

Other than that, we're great!

[BigRedChief]

Draft a top ten draft pick rookie LT.

Get Pitt's Faneca through FA at G

move McCintosh to RT

and we may again be able to restore the OL up to NFL standards.

[HonestChieffan]

Better question is who do we have that we would go after if they played elsewhere?

After you list Brian Waters,stop, get a cup of coffee cause you passed the test.

[Mecca]

Then becomes this problem......for the depth of the Oline talent in the draft, some people don't believe any of them are worthy of a top 10 let alone top 5 pick...such as the best guy Jake Long projects better as a RT...That's the view on the guys that we know are in the draft so far...

Also throwing 50 million dollars at a 30 year old guard is just bad. Guards can be had in the mid rounds of a draft no reason to overpay for an aging one. But it is a typical Chiefs move....

The team needs to get younger not bring in more 30 year olds.

[Hoover]

While the Oline needs help and this organazation must invest a bunch of FA money and some high draft pick into it, I think we can turn it back into one of our strenghts quickly.

Draft: If we have a top 5 pick I think we will have a great shot at OT Long. I know there has been a lot of talk of moving MacIntosh to RT, but I'd leave him at LT and start Long at RT for next year.

I also think we should invest another first day pick into the oline if there is value on the board.

FA:

I think we should obviously go after Faneca hard. I think its going to be costly, but this should be our main FA focus. In addition to Faneca we need to find a new Center. I actually think that our weak interor line really kills our good players in Waters and MacIntosh. When you play line you are only as good as the guy next to you.

[Hoover]

Then becomes this problem......for the depth of the Oline talent in the draft, some people don't believe any of them are worthy of a top 10 let alone top 5 pick...such as the best guy Jake Long projects better as a RT...That's the view on the guys that we know are in the draft so far...

Also throwing 50 million dollars at a 30 year old guard is just bad. Guards can be had in the mid rounds of a draft no reason to overpay for an aging one. But it is a typical Chiefs move....

The team needs to get younger not bring in more 30 year olds.
A 30 year old Gaurd can play for another 8 years. I think its worth the investment especially if you have a back like LJ. We are a running team that should use a lot of play action. Thats how we should build our oline.

[Chiefnj2]

Also throwing 50 million dollars at a 30 year old guard is just bad. Guards can be had in the mid rounds of a draft no reason to overpay for an aging one. But it is a typical Chiefs move....
.
How many of those mid-round OL draft picks have panned out for KC in the last 10 years?

[HonestChieffan]

MacIntosh....move him yes. To another city. The guy is showing he is injury prone. Whats with keeping this clown?

[POND_OF_RED]

I had a dream the other night that it was home opener 2008 and right before kickoff the sun was blocked shortly after flyover. The sea of red all gasped in amazement as Willie Roaf glided down under a huge chiefs parachute to the center of the field for the coinflip. Larry ran right behind him first play for a 30 yard gain. Then I woke up and remembered Willie's gone and our line is lucky to block for 30 rushing yards in a game let alone one play. Oh the glory days.....

[Hoover]

So here is my dream off season.

Free Agents: Time to spend some of that cap space

OG: Faneca
FB: Brad Hoover.
This guy will come cheep and I want a real full back who can lead the way for LJ.
WR: Bryant Johnson
Adding Bryant would provide the Chiefs with a talanted young rec corps. Johnson, Bowe, TG, and LJ is a nice core of skilled players.
K: Hell lets make a run at Josh Brown, he's money from 40 in.

[ILChief]

we need 2 tackles and one guard.

Keep Waters at LG and Niswanger at C. Keep McIntosh for depth. I'd like to see if Herb Taylor can play at all.

Say adios to Turley, Terry, Svitek, Welbourne, and Weigman.

[Zouk]

I believe someone posted stats on here that Damion McIntosh has actually been quite good in pass blocking in terms of sacks allowed. This has been obscured because our sacks against are horrible in total with the right side of the line being possibly the worst in NFL history. The Dolphins tried him on the right side, and found he was far more effective on the left. That's why I think in an ideal world you'd want to keep him on the left and bring in a good right tackle. Someone like Godser Cherilus at the top of the 2nd round.

[TEX]

I'd keep Big Mac, Waters. and Niswanger. Everyone else can go.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

1)Kill anyone who suggests we sign a free agent guard to a big contract
2) Draft the BPA in every round, regardless of position
3) Send Wiegmann to the glue factory
4) Draw and quarter Terry and Svitek
5) Sell Welbourne's corpse to science

[chagrin]

So here is my dream off season.

Free Agents: Time to spend some of that cap space

OG: Faneca
FB: Brad Hoover.
This guy will come cheep and I want a real full back who can lead the way for LJ.
WR: Bryant Johnson
Adding Bryant would provide the Chiefs with a talanted young rec corps. Johnson, Bowe, TG, and LJ is a nice core of skilled players.
K: Hell lets make a run at Josh Brown, he's money from 40 in.

Is Bryant worth it? Isn't he the locker room cancer, late of the 49ers, Dallas, etc? I don't remember

As for FB, I would prefer Corey Schlesinger over Brad Hoover anyday.

[RedThat]

I think if Jake Long is available you take him. He'd be an instant upgrade at RT. Yeah I'd throw money at Faneca, I know people here would disagree, but the guy is a Probowl guard. He's made multiple probowls and he would also be an instant upgrade over what we have. Seriously, who cares about the money? It's not like it's our money we're spending on a guard anyway? I want good players dang it! good football players.

those 2 would improve the O-line immediately. And I would also give Niswanger a shot to play center. I thought he was pretty decent given the playing time.

[Chief Faithful]

The team needs OLmen bad, but if the team gets a top 4 pick should they go for QB? Jake Long does not deserve to be a top 5 pick while there are two QB's in the draft that a team cannot pickup without a top 5 pick.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Is Bryant worth it? Isn't he the locker room cancer, late of the 49ers, Dallas, etc? I don't remember

As for FB, I would prefer Corey Schlesinger over Brad Hoover anyday.

That's Antonio Bryant.

[Easy 6]

we need 2 tackles and one guard.

Keep Waters at LG and Niswanger at C. Keep McIntosh for depth. I'd like to see if Herb Taylor can play at all.

Say adios to Turley, Terry, Svitek, Welbourne, and Weigman.

This is exactly what i would say.

[Chief Faithful]

San Diego under Marty replaced all 5 starters his second season as coach and it paid off big. While it provides inspiration the Chiefs could replace 4 starters in one off-season the Chiefs do not have extra first round picks like the Chargers did. Thus, I see this as a two season rebuild.

Season one:
LT-McIntosh
LG-Waters
C-Niswanger or New (can get good centers in 3rd round most drafts)
RG-New
RT-New

Season two:
LT-New
LG-Waters
C-Niswanger or New
RG-solved 2008
RT-solved 2009

[Chiefnj2]

KC has drafted around 14 OL in the last 10 years. Granted most were late 2nd day picks, but only one of those picks arguably panned out - Tait.

Taking into consideration KC's horrible history of reaching in the 2nd round, I don't see why people aren't a little more open to signing free agent tackles and guards.

[ChiefsCountry]

The best move would be sign a tackle in the offseason and move McIntosh to right guard.

[Chief Faithful]

The best move would be sign a tackle in the offseason and move McIntosh to right guard.

Nice idea, but I don't see any LT's available that could do it any better than McIntosh.

[el borracho]

We aren't going to fix this Oline in one offseason and, even if we did, we would still have a ton of holes on this team. I will be pretty unhappy if we don't draft several Olinemen this year but I will be even more upset if we reach for an Olineman in the draft or sign another old guy to big money. This team is not one or two pieces away from competing. We need to start filling in the Oline this year but we don't have to fix the whole thing this year.

[ChiefsCountry]

by tackle i take it you mean LT? who would you sign?

Jordan Gross from the Panthers, he is 27 and has played both tackle positions.

[nomad]

If anyone is going to re-make the offensive line, one MUST consider who would be best to coach them up.

I would suggest the powers that be... that they take a look at bringing in an established quality coach to do it right.

What kind of faith can any of us fans have when looking at the quality of talent and the lack of development that has been assembled to date.

Just as important as adding quality, is coaching it.

Anyone have some names in mind?

[RedThat]

We aren't going to fix this Oline in one offseason and, even if we did, we would still have a ton of holes on this team. I will be pretty unhappy if we don't draft several Olinemen this year but I will be even more upset if we reach for an Olineman in the draft or sign another old guy to big money. This team is not one or two pieces away from competing. We need to start filling in the Oline this year but we don't have to fix the whole thing this year.

Realistically I think all it takes is a couple of good moves. Draft an OT in round one. The Chiefs must do this. I don't know about you, but I can't think of a more glaring weakness on this team than RT? So if the Chiefs get an OT with there first pick, hopefully it can help address that side of the line.

I don't think throwing big money at a probowl guard like Faneca would be a bad idea? If anything, he is a proven player in this league, and is pretty consistent in terms of being in the probowl most years. So if the Chiefs throw big money at a proven player that can help solidify a glaring weakness at the O-line I say why not?

If the Chiefs were lets say to make those moves, and give Niswanger a chance, the line might not be that bad afterall? your right I agree with you, this team is not one or two pieces away from competing, but a good O-line would help this team win 3 or more games easily imo.

[Hoover]

Ask Minnesota if throwing some bucks at a Gaurd makes a difference.

We have the running backs in place, we need to help them by getting some good blockers in there. Faneca is a 5 time pro bowler and is only 30. Seems like the perfect pick.

[ChiefsCountry]

If Pittsburgh hasnt thrown big money at the guy already that is a big big flag in my book.

[Skip Towne]

If Pittsburgh hasnt thrown big money at the guy already that is a big big flag in my book.
You wrote a book?

[Eleazar]

Waters stays. McIntosh can stay, but he's just a guy. Nothing special.

I don't think anyone else deserves to have a job next year.

[PastorMikH]

Are there any top LTs coming out in this years draft?

[ChiefsCountry]

Are there any top LTs coming out in this years draft?

Yep this is a good year to draft tackles, looks like next year will be as well.

[Chiefnj2]

Are there any top LTs coming out in this years draft?

It depends where you want to draft them.

The top prospect is Jake Long from Michigan. He's a beast against the run, but has trouble against speed rushers so some say he's better suited for RT. Do you want to spend a top 10 pick on a RT?

The 2nd best prospect is a kid named Michael Oher. Really troubled past (there is a book about him), but he seems to have overcome it. The problem with him is that (a) he's not as dominant as Long against the run, (b) he's only a junior and reports are that he is leaning toward returning to school.

3rd top prospect (per publications) is Clady from Boise State. He looks like a LT, but some who have watched him say he doesn't look that good.

There are a bunch of other guys Otah (jr - undecided), Cherilius (BC).

So, the pool is somewhat deep, you just have to make sure you get good value for the pick instead of reaching for someone just because they are a LT.

[RedThat]

It depends where you want to draft them.

The top prospect is Jake Long from Michigan. He's a beast against the run, but has trouble against speed rushers so some say he's better suited for RT. Do you want to spend a top 10 pick on a RT?

The 2nd best prospect is a kid named Michael Oher. Really troubled past (there is a book about him), but he seems to have overcome it. The problem with him is that (a) he's not as dominant as Long against the run, (b) he's only a junior and reports are that he is leaning toward returning to school.

3rd top prospect (per publications) is Clady from Boise State. He looks like a LT, but some who have watched him say he doesn't look that good.

There are a bunch of other guys Otah (jr - undecided), Cherilius (BC).

So, the pool is somewhat deep, you just have to make sure you get good value for the pick instead of reaching for someone just because they are a LT.

It's funny because Long has great speed and footwork for an OT? I was reading up about Long, and there was some high praise about his pass blocking skills. Plus, he plays with a mean streak. He does a good job of taking on and running over opposing defenders. Now, I know that is at the collegiate level, but if he can do that in the NFL, those are some Pro-Bowl attributes right there. Im all for taking a tackle either way, don't matter where you line him up? you need tackles regardless? If the Chiefs are going to go with Brodie Croyle, I think it is wise they get him some help and build around him.

[BigRedChief]

Are there any top LTs coming out in this years draft?They are projecting pro bowl type LT's may be available as low as pick #20.

Consensus is that there are 3 pro bowl LT's in this draft. Long, Oher and Clady

Which if true I could see us trading down and getting one of those later and picking up a 2nd rounder to get a top flight G in the 2nd round.

LT = Top draft pick
LG = Waters
Center = nisinger
RG = Francea (FA from Pitt)
RT = Mckintosh

2nd round pick (G) work in throughout the season.

[Chief Faithful]

They are projecting pro bowl type LT's may be available as low as pick #20.

Consensus is that there are 3 pro bowl LT's in this draft. Long, Oher and Clady

I've heard Long projects at RT. Do your sources say Oher and Clady project purely at LT or are they also RT prospects?

[Chiefnj2]

It's funny because Long has great speed and footwork for an OT? I was reading up about Long, and there was some high praise about his pass blocking skills. Plus, he plays with a mean streak. He does a good job of taking on and running over opposing defenders. Now, I know that is at the collegiate level, but if he can do that in the NFL, those are some Pro-Bowl attributes right there. Im all for taking a tackle either way, don't matter where you line him up? you need tackles regardless? If the Chiefs are going to go with Brodie Croyle, I think it is wise they get him some help and build around him.

From what I've read, the only decent DE Long faced this year was from Ohio State and Long didn't look very good. There is some youtube video of it.

[Buehler445]

Apparently Niswanger played some. Somebody want to give me a recap of how he looked?

[ChiefsCountry]

Apparently Niswanger played some. Somebody want to give me a recap of how he looked?

This week? He is on IR.

[Buehler445]

This week? He is on IR.

Huh. Why are people talking about keeping him? Any ideas?

[ChiefsCountry]

Huh. Why are people talking about keeping him? Any ideas?

He has been playing some in the place of Welbourn till he got hurt. He looked decent, nothing great though.

[Buehler445]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the info.

[philfree]

To fix our o line the fasteset we need some free agents. Here's a nice list:
Ruben Brown, UFA, Chicago Bears
An aging veteran, Brown has a lot of experience opening holes for backs and allowing time for passers. He’s a solid guard who holds down his position quite well. If he decides to stick around, he may have a couple of good seasons left. Teams won’t line up to sign him, but there should be a handful that show interest.

Alan Faneca, UFA, Pittsburgh Steelers
Faneca seems to be the most likely of this group to leave his current team. Rumors suggest that he plans on leaving after the season and has not discussed an extension with the Steelers. Faneca is a quality guard who has started in five Pro Bowls and been selected as a first team All-Pro five times as well. He also still has some prime seasons of his career remaining. Faneca will receive the most interest at his position, could be the most coveted offensive linemen after the season, and should also be one of the most coveted players available in all of the NFL.

Flozell Adams, UFA, Dallas Cowboys
A veteran left tackle, Adams should hit the market and receive decent interest. A second-round pick in 1998, Adams has developed into one of the league’s better offensive linemen. His size, experience, and performance will lure teams into making a considerable offer for his services. The Cowboys are developing young talent behind him, and depending on how that youth pans out the rest of the season, the team could allow him to leave in favor of saving some money.

Jordan Gross, UFA, Carolina Panthers
With Gross’ contract voiding at season’s end, the Panthers will need to increase his salary in order to keep him around. The ownership seems to agree that he deserves a pay raise, and the team appears to want to keep him around as their starting right tackle. A former first-round selection who has played well, Gross will be looking for a considerably larger check come next season.

Ryan Lilja, UFA, Indianapolis Colts
A quality guard, Lilja is relatively young and has a Super Bowl ring to call his own. The Colts will do well to sign him to an extension, but there’s a chance that Lilja tests the market. In reality, the system that Lilja plays within is a nice fit, and he could easily stay because of it.

Max Starks, UFA, Pittsburgh Steelers
Starks is young and massive, and another Pittsburgh player that may leave the Steel City. He’s 25 and is listed at 6’7” while weighing 337 pounds. His size and age will make him a desired player on many team’s list. A top tier tackle will always garner interest and Starks may lead the free agent class at the spot because of the high level of play he has shown on the field.

Floyd Womack, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
A big, experienced guard, Womack could get a decent offer from any team missing out on a top tier target like Faneca. If Womack isn’t the outright starter in Seattle this season, look for him to find work elsewhere with an expanded role guaranteed.

Jake Scott, UFA, Indianapolis Colts
Scott is the starting right guard for one of the top offensive line units in the entire NFL, and his ability to help protect Peyton Manning should equate to a nice contract number. Indianapolis has found a way to retain most of their line talent in recent seasons, and it should come as no surprise if Scott is locked into a long-term deal in the near future.

Todd Steussie UFA St. Louis Rams
Steussie has been a solid offensive tackle for several years, but he was placed on injured reserve earlier this season because of a foot injury. He’s approaching forty years of age, but he may still have a good season or two in him. He should receive some attention as a free agent simply because of his experience and the position he plays.

Travelle Wharton UFA Carolina Panthers
A late third-round selection in 2004, Wharton has developed into a solid starting left tackle. He has been a key reason for the successes that the Panthers have had, and his absence last season was a key reason for the team’s struggles. Wharton’s rookie contract will expire at season’s end, and his value on the market should be fairly strong. A quality left tackle is hard to find, and team’s looking to bolster an offensive line will have to consider Wharton. Carolina will likely make every effort to work out an extension.

Other Free Agent Offensive Linemen
OG P.J. Alexander UFA Atlanta Falcons
OT Nat Dorsey UFA Cleveland Browns
OT Trai Essex RFA Pittsburgh Steelers
OG Chris Kemoeatu RFA Pittsburgh Steelers
OT Cory Lekkerkerker RFA San Diego Chargers
OT Sean Locklear UFA Seattle Seahawks
OG Brian Rimpf RFA Baltimore Ravens
OG Keydrick Vincent UFA Baltimore Ravens
OG Fred Weary UFA Houston Texans
--------------------
MY favorites are Starks who is only 25 years old, Lilja who got away from us once aleady and is still young, Jake Scott who is also young and Travell Wharton another young one. That's a RT, RG,LG and LT. IMO we can keep Weigman if we have a stong cast around him and Waters can fight to be a starter or be a quality back up. Waters could also play FB in short yardage situations. If sign three of those guys and and draft a T in the first round we'll be set on offense for the next four years. With a young stud QB, LJ, Kobey Smith, Bowe and Gonzo our O will rock. The cap is gonna grow this year and we should also have some back cap from 2007 pushed onto 2008 from LJ not meeting incentives.

PhilFree:arrow:

[ChiefsCountry]

MY favorites are Starks who is only 25 years old, Lilja who got away from us once aleady and is still young, Jake Scott who is also young and Travell Wharton another young one. That's a RT, RG,LG and LT. IMO we can keep Weigman if we have a stong cast around him and Waters can fight to be a starter or be a quality back up. Waters could also play FB in short yardage situations. If sign three of those guys and and draft a T in the first round we'll be set on offense for the next four years. With a young stud QB, LJ, Kobey Smith, Bowe and Gonzo our O will rock. The cap is gonna grow this year and we should also have some back cap from 2007 pushed onto 2008 from LJ not meeting incentives.

PhilFree:arrow:

Honestly that is a pretty stupid idiot. This isnt Madden.

[CoMoChief]

Now its time to start Herb Taylor, Tre Stallings, and the Mexitackle.

[philfree]

Honestly that is a pretty stupid idiot. This isnt Madden.
I haven't played madden since like '98. So tell me what's so stupid about trying sign some of these guys. If we sign two of them we'lll be better which is very realistic. If you ever meet me you can call an idiot to my face if you wish but on here you shouldn't be such a jerkoff 'BOY'!

PhilFree:arrow:

[ChiefsCountry]

I haven't played madden since like '98. So tell me what's so stupid about trying sign some of these guys. If we sign two of them we'lll be better which is very realistic. If you ever meet me you can call an idiot to my face if you wish but on here you shouldn't be such a jerkoff 'BOY'!

PhilFree:arrow:

You wanted to sign 4 of them. That would kill all of the cap we have for a temp fix, sign 1 - the youngest, best out of that bunch then it would be okay. Heck you said make Waters, a backup or a short line fullback. :rolleyes:

[philfree]

You wanted to sign 4 of them. That would kill all of the cap we have for a temp fix, sign 1 - the youngest, best out of that bunch then it would be okay. Heck you said make Waters, a backup or a short line fullback. :rolleyes:

I didn't really say sign all 4 of those guys I said they were my favorites. I do like the idea of letting Waters play some FB in certain situations though. Isn't he a FB converted to guard? Also i really said let him fight for a starter position and I meant if he doesn't prevail he can be a backup. He could be moved to RG to if we sign a guy like Ryan Lilja.

PhilFree:arrow:

[Mecca]

OT Nat Dorsey UFA Cleveland Browns
OT Sean Locklear UFA Seattle Seahawks

Those 2.

[philfree]

OT Nat Dorsey UFA Cleveland Browns
OT Sean Locklear UFA Seattle Seahawks

Those 2.

Now that's input.

PhilFree:arrow:

[HMc]

Romero Pruneda for starting LT!

[HMc]

Haynesworth.Locklear. When Vick gets out of the slammer we can pick him up, and we'll be challenging the bengals for thug supremacy