Teicher: Chiefs need to know now about Croyle

[Coogs]

Chiefs need to know now about Croyle
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

The need for the Chiefs to evaluate Brodie Croyle and decide whether he is indeed their quarterback of the future becomes more important with every mounting defeat.

The Chiefs, losers of six straight games and owners of a 4-9 record, are headed for a premium draft spot. They are almost certain to select in the top 10 and could squeeze into the top five, where a quarterback like Matt Ryan of Boston College might prove too tempting for them to pass up.

So it’s more important now than ever for the Chiefs to know what they have in Croyle. Caught in the mess that is the Chiefs’ offense, Croyle hasn’t looked like much of a prodigy in his three starts.

The Chiefs lost all of them and have four touchdowns. Croyle committed four turnovers, including two interceptions and two fumbles.

But could any NFL quarterback, past or present, do any better in an offense that can’t run the ball or protect the quarterback? Is this a fair test for Croyle?

In the moments after Sunday’s one-sided loss in Denver, even a frustrated Croyle wasn’t certain.

“Getting beat 41-7,” Croyle said, “is not a good learning experience.”

Croyle went on to say that playing under the current circumstances is preferable to not playing at all. The current circumstances, since they’ve been in place since the September day the season began in Houston, don’t figure to change in the final three games.

So, fair or not, this is how the Chiefs will have to evaluate Croyle. He doesn’t have a reliable running game, receivers are dropping passes, the Chiefs rarely allow him to drop back and throw deep because of protection problems, and he often has little time when he drops shorter.

Coach Herm Edwards agreed the conditions for a quarterback evaluation aren’t perfect.

“You can tell certain things,” Edwards said. “His poise in the huddle, some of his throws, some of the decisions he has to make. You can look at all of that. That’s something he needs and the only way he can get it is to go through it. We have found out how tough he is. There’s no doubt about that. Do you get a truly full picture? No. But you get a good enough picture.

“He’s done a decent job. He’s missed a couple of throws and you wish he’d made a better decision on some, but for what he’s done and what we’ve asked him to do, he’s done a decent job. He would have had a better day (against the Broncos) if some guys hadn’t dropped some balls.”

Edwards had Croyle on his radar before Edwards joined the Chiefs. He is friends with Mike Shula, Croyle’s college coach at Alabama.

Edwards planned to draft Croyle for the Jets before leaving New York to join the Chiefs. In part because of Edwards’ urging, the Chiefs drafted Croyle in the third round last year.

Edwards’ affinity for Croyle is obvious to everyone connected with the Chiefs since Croyle arrived in Kansas City. Trent Green wanted his trade to Miami last spring in part because he thought any training-camp quarterback competition would be skewed in Croyle’s favor.

In his three games, Croyle has displayed some of the qualities Edwards likes in a quarterback. Most obvious is his toughness.

Croyle has occasionally held the ball too long and taken the sack, but he hasn’t flinched in the face of a usually overwhelming pass rush.

“I like him a lot just for the fact he doesn’t like to lose,” Edwards said.

“He wants to win. He’s out there trying to win a game. The more he can go in that huddle and gain the confidence of the players, it’s going to make him better and everybody else better. He doesn’t get rattled a whole lot. He keeps his composure.”

In asking so much of Croyle when little around him is working, the Chiefs are running the risk of ruining Croyle. But they will take that chance. There’s no scenario other than injury that will drive him out of the lineup this year.

Next year, it could be Ryan or another rookie.

“He’s (Croyle) resilient and he’s tough,” Edwards said. “I don’t think that will be a problem at all. If he’s hurt, you get him out. But, no he’s got to finish the season. A lot of them go through it. You hate putting him through it. But it’s part of it for him.”

•LJOUT: Edwards said running back Larry Johnson wouldn’t play in Sunday’s final home game against Tennessee.

[FringeNC]

I'm not convinced that Croyle is the answer, but I think it would be stupid to take a QB in the first round. For starters, could this inept gang groom ANY QB? Secondly, how many 1st round QBs turn out to be franchise QBs? Doesn't seem like a lot to me...

[RustShack]

Go Croyle! Fire Carl!

[siberian khatru]

Would Matt Ryan be a top-5 pick in any draft, or just this draft?

[InChiefsHeaven]

Geeez, if we draft a QB and don't fix the O-line, we're left with a very expensive version of Croyle. If the draft a QB, I really can't say how much attention I'll be paying to this team.

Croyle should have the job for at least a whole season. The pinball machine of an offense that he plays in right now only shows us that he's pretty tough, he can make some good throws, he can go through his progressions...he can make some bad throws too, but damn...are we EVER going to actually develop somebody?? Put some damn OLinemen in front of him at least, before you pull the plug!!!

[Sanka]

If we draft a QB, I might end up in prison.

[BigRedChief]

No one thinks Bodie is the next Manning or Brady. Just that he might make a good and reliable NFL QB. But even Manning and Brady couldn't make chicken salad out of this offense chit.

So can we really evaluate Croyle as a possible QOTF in 4 games when we have the worse offense in the NFL and a team that has possibly quit on the season?

[the Talking Can]

Croyle should have been playing from day 1, for this exact reason. But Herm and the True Fans wanted to "win now".

We could have evaluated him with a healthy OL and healthy LJ.

But we decided to wait until the offense was beat up, demoralized, and the defense was ready to quit. That's how the Chiefs develop their young QBs.

Awesomely brilliant.

I called this shot. Chiefs don't learn about Croyle this year, have to decide on drafting another QB with no good information. Left guessing as usual.

[Reerun_KC]

Would be so typical Chiefs...

I can see the swirl from the drain coming...

[ceebz]

Matt Ryan? I may stop watching football all together, if the Chiefs draft Matt Ryan.

[pikesome]

All this talk of QB drafting seems silly. There's no sure-fire player, no certain, can't miss pick. Because of that I'd really like us to look at the BPA at our pick. There are a bunch of positions that could use new blood. We need a bunch of stuff, if Herm wants to redeem this year this draft is a great chance.

[Coogs]

Croyle should have been playing from day 1, for this exact reason. But Herm and the True Fans wanted to "win now".

We could have evaluated him with a healthy OL and healthy LJ.

But we decided to wait until the offense was beat up, demoralized, and the defense was ready to quit. That's how the Chiefs develop their young QBs.

Awesomely brilliant.

I called this shot. Chiefs don't learn about Croyle this year, have to decide on drafting another QB with no good information. Left guessing as usual.


:clap:

Totally agreed all along.

[Reerun_KC]

Croyle should have been playing from day 1, for this exact reason. But Herm and the True Fans wanted to "win now".

We could have evaluated him with a healthy OL and healthy LJ.

But we decided to wait until the offense was beat up, demoralized, and the defense was ready to quit. That's how the Chiefs develop their young QBs.

Awesomely brilliant.

I called this shot. Chiefs don't learn about Croyle this year, have to decide on drafting another QB with no good information. Left guessing as usual.

Sorry TalkingCan, but Huard still gives us the best chance to win now /Carl

Sarcasim meter is working this morning.

[Coogs]

All this talk of QB drafting seems silly. There's no sure-fire player, no certain, can't miss pick. Because of that I'd really like us to look at the BPA at our pick. There are a bunch of positions that could use new blood. We need a bunch of stuff, if Herm wants to redeem this year this draft is a great chance.


Yes we do need a lot of stuff. We have been so busy giving Gun everthing he has needed on defense... including much of the draft in the past few years... minus Bowe and Croyle... that the offense is pretty much toast. While we do need many players on both sides, it is time for Gun's picks to step up and perform on the defensive side. And I am talking about the young guys we have spent draft picks on.

The offense needs some serious attention... BPA wise.

[Chiefnj2]

The problem with passing on a QB this year is that once you win 7 games plus in the future your chance of having a draft pick low enough to grab a good QB decreases significantly.

Now the team has the dilemma that Can explained.

The best thing would be a clean house. Get a new GM and new coach and let him build the team as he sees fit. I hate to say it, but now that I know Herm was behind the drafting of Croyle, it makes me doubt the kid even more.

[Archie Bunker]

Matt Ryan? I may stop watching football all together, if the Chiefs draft Matt Ryan.

Why does everyone hate Matt Ryan? I was impressed the few times I watched B.C. play?

[trndobrd]

Drafting a QB in the first round would be the equivalent of putting $1800 chrome wheels on a rusted out 1990 Chevy Lumina

[Chiefnj2]

Drafting a QB in the first round would be the equivalent of putting $1800 chrome wheels on a rusted out 1990 Chevy Lumina
Because if you take a QB in round 1 the team can't bring in 2 or 3 OL in free agency or use the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds to help build the offense?

[Coogs]

Because if you take a QB in round 1 the team can't bring in 2 or 3 OL in free agency or use the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds to help build the offense?

I'm OK with this.

[DaKCMan AP]

Why does everyone hate Matt Ryan? I was impressed the few times I watched B.C. play?

I was unimpressed the 3-4 times I saw BC.

[Reerun_KC]

We so need to give croyle one full season...

IF Downfield BigFetal Huard can get his shot at "the best chance to win now" then Croyle deserves a shot at next year..

With a healthy LJ and a rebuilt OL... Croyle is the best prospect through arrowhead, since well, EVER....

[talastan]

Because if you take a QB in round 1 the team can't bring in 2 or 3 OL in free agency or use the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds to help build the offense?
Not with the line that we're going to need. First off you have a top five draft pick QB...There goes a large part of the cap. That will effectively take away one FA OL who is worth a damn. Also using subsequent picks afterwards on O-Line diminishes our chances at a decent CB which we'll need this year along with a top rated OT. Again I think you use your first pick on BPA, preferably if it is an OT. Not saying we should reach for one, but a top five pick could possibly go a long way towards shoring up this O-Line. Any first player in the first round isn't a guarantee, but an O-Line bust won't be killing your salary cap as much as a Matt Ryan, or Colt Brennan will. JMO

[Chiefnj2]

Why does everyone hate Matt Ryan? I was impressed the few times I watched B.C. play?

He's like a roller coaster. First 55 minutes of the first VT game he looked horrible. Then he comes in the last 2 drives and looks like Joe Montana.

For a guy that has played very inconsistently to shoot up draft boards ahead of preseason favorites like Brohm and Woodson means they must like something on film about him that the ordinary fan doesn't seem to notice.

[Chiefnj2]

Not with the line that we're going to need. First off you have a top five draft pick QB...There goes a large part of the cap. That will effectively take away one FA OL who is worth a damn.

That QB has to fit into the rookie cap like any other drafted player. He doesn't take away from general FA pool of money.

[Coogs]

He's like a roller coaster. First 55 minutes of the first VT game he looked horrible. Then he comes in the last 2 drives and looks like Joe Montana.

For a guy that has played very inconsistently to shoot up draft boards ahead of preseason favorites like Brohm and Woodson means they must like something on film about him that the ordinary fan doesn't seem to notice.

This reminds me of the '83 QB draft scenario. There was this QB from Penn State that kind of came out of nowhere and vaulted over a QB from Pitt with a better college resume for all 4 years. But the QB from Pitt's team lost a game or two, and the Penn State QB became the "hot" item.

And, as we all know, Peterson, ;) ,drafted the Penn State QB high in the first round, and the Pitt QB fell down the charts to the Dolphins.

[DaKCMan AP]

He's like a roller coaster. First 55 minutes of the first VT game he looked horrible. Then he comes in the last 2 drives and looks like Joe Montana.

For a guy that has played very inconsistently to shoot up draft boards ahead of preseason favorites like Brohm and Woodson means they must like something on film about him that the ordinary fan doesn't seem to notice.

He has great measureables ala Kyle Boller.

[DaKCMan AP]

This reminds me of the '83 QB draft scenario. There was this QB from Penn State that kind of came out of nowhere and vaulted over a QB from Pitt with a better college resume for all 4 years. But the QB from Pitt's team lost a game or two, and the Penn State QB became the "hot" item.

And, as we all know, Peterson, ;) ,drafted the Penn State QB high in the first round, and the Pitt QB fell down the charts to the Dolphins.


ROFL

[Chiefs_5627]

Even if Croyle started from day 1 this year he still should get more time imo. Oline is where our needs are at.

[thehead]

We so need to give croyle one full season...

IF Downfield BigFetal Huard can get his shot at "the best chance to win now" then Croyle deserves a shot at next year..

With a healthy LJ and a rebuilt OL... Croyle is the best prospect through arrowhead, since well, EVER....



I agree if KC does let Brodie go I can see it biting us in the ass . The kid has attitude arm strength the feel from the blind side will come with a competent o-line & proper COACHING not CURLY DICK.

[Micjones]

At this point drafting a QB any higher than the middle rounds would be a mistake.

We have to get this line fixed first.
I'm willing to sit through a full season of Brodie Croyle behind a solid offensive line and with another reliable pass-catcher.

All of which we can shore up through FA and the Draft.

[trndobrd]

Because if you take a QB in round 1 the team can't bring in 2 or 3 OL in free agency or use the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds to help build the offense?


No, because the Chiefs would be spending a bunch of money on a nice shiny part that still won't make the thing go anywhere.

The recent string of stellar success the Chiefs have enjoyed at OL free agents aside, the long term solution is to fix the OL through the draft. That starts with a first rate LT, not a second day pick or FA retread. Once an NFL caliber OL is in place, the running game should open up along with some pass protection. Until that point, it doesn't really matter if Croyle, Huard, or a first round pick is getting crushed.

Along with building the offense, there is a dire need for at least one CB, some more beef at DT, and maybe a MLB or saftey.

[KCrockaholic]

I dont know if Croyle is the future of this franchise yet, but its nearly impossible to tell anything until the O-line is fixed. after that denver game i was saying we needed to just sweep everybody on the O-line out and start over. and if Svitek and Terry start at Tackle ever again for this team ill be ready to kill someone. how do we go from the best O-line 2 years ago, to the worst in franchise history. dont tell me Willie Roaf made that big of a difference? i know willie was the best chiefs lineman ever but the RT position was always kind of average and now its completely sucks

[Psyko Tek]

any chance on trading away a low round pick for these wonderful QB'S for many pick s to get an Offensive line

no line no offense
doesn't matter who is back there without a line

[Mr. Laz]

i don't want Herm to pull a Vermeil ...... spending his entire tenure drafting the side of the ball he knows nothing about.

offensive line and defense ..... leave the offensive skill players for the next head coach to draft.

[suds79]

Give Croyle another year with a fixed O-line.

Draft the best LT on the board in the 1st. If Croyle turns out to be a bust, then we can draft that franchise QB next year as we probably would be picking high.

But no QB could thrive behind this O-line. It has got to be the worse in the NFL.

[DaKCMan AP]

i don't want Herm to pull a Vermeil ...... spending his entire tenure drafting the side of the ball he knows nothing about.

offensive line and defense ..... leave the offensive skill players for the next head coach to draft.

Yeah, cause Bowe and Kolby Smith were bad picks.

[Hydrae]

The problem with passing on a QB this year is that once you win 7 games plus in the future your chance of having a draft pick low enough to grab a good QB decreases significantly.

Now the team has the dilemma that Can explained.

The best thing would be a clean house. Get a new GM and new coach and let him build the team as he sees fit. I hate to say it, but now that I know Herm was behind the drafting of Croyle, it makes me doubt the kid even more.

It reminded me too much of Vermeil and his drafting of Sims based on what his buddy, the college coach, told him about the kid.

That said, I like Croyle and think he has a chance to be a decent QB in this league. He is still rough but he has only started a few games. I don't think he is a bust in the making and certainly think he deserves next year to prove this is true.

[Chiefnj2]

I think that if there is any hesitation that Croyle is the QBOTF, you have to seriously consider going with a QB in the 1st round. Generally, once you get past pick 11 the chances that 1st round pick will pan out gets slim.

[Baby Lee]

I think there's little risk of Brodie being the next Ryan Leaf. I think worst case scenario he'll turn out to be the next Tony Banks.
Not great, but not horrible, and worth taking the chance to see what's under the hood.

[Brock]

I don't see any QBs I'd spend a top 5, or probably even a top 10 pick on this year. This team has holes everywhere you look.

[suds79]

I'm afraid that if we draft a QB in the 1st he'd end up like David Carr.

[MGRS13]

I think there's little risk of Brodie being the next Ryan Leaf. I think worst case scenario he'll turn out to be the next Tony Banks.
Not great, but not horrible, and worth taking the chance to see what's under the hood.If Croyle is the next Tony Banks we HAVE to draft a QB in the first round.

[talastan]

I think there's little risk of Brodie being the next Ryan Leaf. I think worst case scenario he'll turn out to be the next Tony Banks.
Not great, but not horrible, and worth taking the chance to see what's under the hood.
http://www.e-prog.net/images/concerts/images/genesis7_banks.jpg

"She seem to have an invisible touch!"

Just kidding!! ROFL

[DaKCMan AP]

If Croyle is the next Tony Banks we HAVE to draft a QB in the first round.

Yeah, because if you want a QB you have to take one in round 1 since they ALL pan out!!!!!!!!!!

[RJ]

I'd be fine with a 1st round QB if Ryan were there. Yes, we have a lot of holes to fill, but I believe that is one of them. If a QB happens to be the BPA, take him.

[Chiefnj2]

If KC passes on a QB early, they should use their 3rd on Joe Flacco. He is a great developmental player. I wouldn't be surprised if he moves way up the draft boards.

[talastan]

I'm sorry I see no reason not to give Croyle next season. He's shown as much if not more than most QB's can given the present state of the O-line. Get him some top talent at LT, or RT. Beef up the Center and a FA guard and you should have a good line to evaluate Brodie behind next season. If the line doesn't do well then we'll probably be picking early again. If Brodie doesn't do well, we'll probably be picking early again. I think the line is the most important need right now.

[doomy3]

We need to draft best player available. Period.

[Baby Lee]

If Croyle is the next Tony Banks we HAVE to draft a QB in the first round.
I said worst case scenario. As in, worst case he's a guy with a great arm that keeps making mental mistakes but is capable of an occasional good game. As in, something STILL worth seeing if he grows into a franchise QB.

[Frankie]

Would Matt Ryan be a top-5 pick in any draft, or just this draft?
Very good question. My son alerted me to him a few weeks ago. I have watched him a couple of times since then. Color me unimpressed.

[Frankie]

No one thinks Bodie is the next Manning or Brady. Just that he might make a good and reliable NFL QB. But even Manning and Brady couldn't make chicken salad out of this offense chit.
If memory serves me right Favre was about equally cosidered as Croyle is now. Don't lose hope yet.

[suds79]

We need to draft best player available. Period.

What if the best player available is a TE? Just playing devils advocate.

I simply wholehearted disagree with the draft philosophy of drafting the best player available.

It's managements job to build and field the best team possible. Well from where we're at right now, that means fixing the O-line & CB situation... Possibly QB also.

[Frankie]

The problem with passing on a QB this year is that once you win 7 games plus in the future your chance of having a draft pick low enough to grab a good QB decreases significantly.
Two words: Todd Blackledge
Two more words: Dan Marino

[Frankie]

This reminds me of the '83 QB draft scenario. There was this QB from Penn State that kind of came out of nowhere and vaulted over a QB from Pitt with a better college resume for all 4 years. But the QB from Pitt's team lost a game or two, and the Penn State QB became the "hot" item.

And, as we all know, Peterson, ;) ,drafted the Penn State QB high in the first round, and the Pitt QB fell down the charts to the Dolphins.
Spooky!.... Brilliant minds....?

[Frankie]

I agree if KC does let Brodie go I can see it biting us in the ass . The kid has attitude arm strength the feel from the blind side will come with a competent o-line & proper COACHING not CURLY DICK.
When you have absolutely no reason to trust in your O-line, your mind is all messed up. Feel shmeel. He'll develop the "feel" when he has a decent O-line. And I can't agree with you more about Dick Curl. That guy belongs with Shottenheimer's 3 stooges.

[Extra Point]

The way things are going, they're gonna crucify me.

Don't know what induced me to type that, but here goes:

Croyle is the best QB we will have for the next two years, based on age and talent.

Herm is going to be around for the next year, because Carl is going to be around for at least another season.

BPA will wind up being an overlap of where we are weak.

Drafting for need will be coincidal, more than coincidence.

Welcome to the season of 6-10 for 2008. Trying to stay dry for the next two years will be close to impossible.

[Frankie]

We need to draft best player available. Period.
Sometimes true. Not this time.

[beach tribe]

If we draft a QB in rnd 1, I will murder someone.

[AcesCasino]

If you keep drafting the best players available, after a few years, you'll soon have a team full of the best players available........Signed, A. J. Smith.......I wouldn't throw Brodie Croyle under the Arrowhead Bus quite yet........

[Wile_E_Coyote]

I can't believe it took 60 posts. The Chiefs won't spend a first rounder on a QB. There is a trade going to happen :)

insert picture of Chad Pennington here

[KCinNY]

Jake Long.

That is all.

[Frankie]

I can't believe it took 60 posts. The Chiefs won't spend a first rounder on a QB. There is a trade going to happen :)

insert picture of Chad Pennington here
Only as a vet back up.

[the Talking Can]

I can't believe it took 60 posts. The Chiefs won't spend a first rounder on a QB. There is a trade going to happen :)

insert picture of Chad Pennington here

I've killed before, I will again.

[Wile_E_Coyote]

Only as a vet back up.

'Dat river in Egypt is longer than the Amazon

[DaneMcCloud]

The Chiefs need to repair their fractured offensive line through the draft and possibly, a free agent starter. Until that's been complete, it won't matter who's playing QB.

That being said, I'm all for the Chiefs drafting a second day QB. Ron Wolf almost always took late round draft choices with Green Bay (even though Favre was at the helm). He turned those late day draft choices (Aaron Brooks, Mark Brunell & Matt Hasselbeck) into first day draft choices via trades.

QB's are great currency in the NFL.

[Frankie]

One question. Does the current Dallas staff inherit their QB coach from Parcell's staff? If so, who is this guy? we need to get his ass here. Look what he's done with an undrafted QB!

[DaneMcCloud]

One question. Does the current Dallas staff inherit their QB coach from Parcell's staff? If so, who is this guy? we need to get his ass here. Look what he's done with an undrafted QB!

Wade Wilson has been the Cowboy's QB coach for a few years. Former NFL QB with a drinking problem. He was also busted for purchasing HGH and was suspended for the first 5 games this season.

Sometimes, coaching is over-rated. Talent is talent.

[Mecca]

If you think Croyle at his best is a league average or slightly above league average QB and you have a chance to draft a guy you think can be a franchise QB..you make the pick.

For anyone that hasn't noticed all the true contending teams have 1 thing....a franchise QB that their team is built around. I don't believe you can compete with those teams without one at this stage of the league.

In the end I think the Chiefs did exactly what I thought they would and they to me did it for this reason. Now they can say "we don't know about Croyle" to avoid taking a first round QB which is the last thing Peterson wants to do. He in no way wants to send the "we are rebuilding and will suck for 3 years" message. He wants to take a player that can play and be good right now to sell the "we're getting better we're a contender" right now message to fill up the stadium.

Those are just my thoughts though...taking a QB in the top 10 sends the exact opposite message Carl has always been about sending.

[Frankie]

Wade Wilson has been the Cowboy's QB coach for a few years. Former NFL QB with a drinking problem. He was also busted for purchasing HGH and was suspended for the first 5 games this season.

Sometimes, coaching is over-rated. Talent is talent.
Was Romo talented enough to get drafted?

[Mecca]

Romo came out of division 2 and had to change his mechanics...the talent was there he just had a ton of work to maximize it, it worked out.

[DaneMcCloud]

Was Romo talented enough to get drafted?

Nope. Free agent.

But as mentioned in other threads, the guy was amazing in 1-AA. Player of the year and such.

But before the advent of free agency in the early 90's, the draft was 12 rounds. Romo certainly would have been drafted under that scenario. And by the same token, Brad Johnson and Trent Green would have been free-agents.

[Mecca]

I don't see any QBs I'd spend a top 5, or probably even a top 10 pick on this year. This team has holes everywhere you look.

And this is probably the best QB class there has been in awhile.....next years will likely drop back down again...

[Zouk]

If KC passes on a QB early, they should use their 3rd on Joe Flacco. He is a great developmental player. I wouldn't be surprised if he moves way up the draft boards.

I've seen Flacco play a couple of times in person. I absolutely love him and think he has huge potential.

[RedThat]

As crazy as this sounds, I thought of this the other day, and I know Im going to get bashed, but bring in Pennington next year.

I know this may sound like a bad plan. But really, I wouldn't mind Croyle, if he had the right coaching staff to tutor him and develop him into a solid QB. Does anyone have faith in this coaching staff? That they can actually help Croyle become a solid QB?

Im not to optimistic. So I think the less he plays, and watches, possibly the better? Until he get a good set of coaches, and has better personnel around him, then I'd be optimistic.

[Mecca]

Everyone also keeps harping Oline.....some of these lineman are going to not be well thought of by the time the draft gets here....

There is depth but there is no high end guy right now. There are solid guys but no elite guys, many people think Jake Long is a RT which makes him not worth a top 5 pick. If the Chiefs pick say 4th or 5th none of those Olineman may be worth the pick.

[RedThat]

Everyone also keeps harping Oline.....some of these lineman are going to not be well thought of by the time the draft gets here....

There is depth but there is no high end guy right now. There are solid guys but no elite guys, many people think Jake Long is a RT which makes him not worth a top 5 pick. If the Chiefs pick say 4th or 5th none of those Olineman may be worth the pick.

Why not? You still need Lineman regardless? Even if he is a RT, who cares? A tackle is a tackle, you still need guys who can block?

[Hydrae]

Everyone also keeps harping Oline.....some of these lineman are going to not be well thought of by the time the draft gets here....

There is depth but there is no high end guy right now. There are solid guys but no elite guys, many people think Jake Long is a RT which makes him not worth a top 5 pick. If the Chiefs pick say 4th or 5th none of those Olineman may be worth the pick.


If it fills a large need on a team, why would it not be worth it? Would it better to wait a round and get something inferior to deal with a need and maybe not even wind up resolving the issue? I have never understood this way of thinking.

[DaKCMan AP]

If you think Croyle at his best is a league average or slightly above league average QB and you have a chance to draft a guy you think can be a franchise QB..you make the pick.

For anyone that hasn't noticed all the true contending teams have 1 thing....a franchise QB that their team is built around. I don't believe you can compete with those teams without one at this stage of the league.

In the end I think the Chiefs did exactly what I thought they would and they to me did it for this reason. Now they can say "we don't know about Croyle" to avoid taking a first round QB which is the last thing Peterson wants to do. He in no way wants to send the "we are rebuilding and will suck for 3 years" message. He wants to take a player that can play and be good right now to sell the "we're getting better we're a contender" right now message to fill up the stadium.

Those are just my thoughts though...taking a QB in the top 10 sends the exact opposite message Carl has always been about sending.

Who do you consider to be the franchise QBs? Obviously Manning and Brady, then who? Favre (even though old), Roethlisberger, Palmer, Romo, Brees, Hasselbeck, Bulger??

Less than half of those guys were 1st rounders. I absolutely agree that having a franchise QB is the surerst way towards success. I disagree in that it has to be a 1st round, top 10 pick.

[Mecca]

Brady, Manning, Favre, Romo, Roethlisberger, Palmer....

I don't think the rest of those guys are franchise QB's for various reasons, they're the next class of QB's.

By the way of all the ones I listed, all those teams used a 1st rounder outside of Brady and Romo.....those guys are the exception not the rule.

[RedThat]

Who do you consider to be the franchise QBs? Obviously Manning and Brady, then who? Favre (even though old), Roethlisberger, Palmer, Romo, Brees, Hasselbeck, Bulger??

Less than half of those guys were 1st rounders. I absolutely agree that having a franchise QB is the surerst way towards success. I disagree in that it has to be a 1st round, top 10 pick.

I think it all starts with the Offensive line. That, and good coaching. I think those two are gifts to a QB. Croyle has neither. And if he did, it'd help him ideally.
Im just going by what I saw from the Chiefs old offense. Great offensive line and coaching. We all saw Trent. Wasn't a franchise QB, but solid. What he had around him helped.

Im more concerned about the environment now, than I am about drafting a QB.

[Mecca]

If it fills a large need on a team, why would it not be worth it? Would it better to wait a round and get something inferior to deal with a need and maybe not even wind up resolving the issue? I have never understood this way of thinking.

The draft is about value not filling up needs, especially when you are as bad as the Chiefs are right now and have them everywhere...

It's like saying, do you want a shot at a franchise QB, the pro bowl DT or the guy who's upside says he's a good RT....

Even if you are worse in 1 spot you should get the best possible player you can. The Lions had worse positions than WR, they took Calvin Johnson anyway because he was a better prospect than the other guys, you have to draft that way especially in the top 10.

You can't take a guy 5-7 spots to early because you "need" that position.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

This teams is ****ed either way under Carl and Herm's "leadership".

[Hydrae]

The draft is about value not filling up needs, especially when you are as bad as the Chiefs are right now and have them everywhere...

It's like saying, do you want a shot at a franchise QB, the pro bowl DT or the guy who's upside says he's a good RT....

Even if you are worse in 1 spot you should get the best possible player you can. The Lions had worse positions than WR, they took Calvin Johnson anyway because he was a better prospect than the other guys, you have to draft that way especially in the top 10.

You can't take a guy 5-7 spots to early because you "need" that position.


Yeah, those Lions are a powerhouse with all those great 1st round BPA WR's now aren't they? If you seriously want to fill a need you take the best available at the spot you have to work with. Don't get some shiney new toy and get an inferior product for what you need. Then you still have the need the next time around too.

[Frankie]

Everyone also keeps harping Oline.....some of these lineman are going to not be well thought of by the time the draft gets here....

There is depth but there is no high end guy right now. There are solid guys but no elite guys, many people think Jake Long is a RT which makes him not worth a top 5 pick. If the Chiefs pick say 4th or 5th none of those Olineman may be worth the pick.
Which means they should get a bit more creative on the draft day and try to trade down to get an extra pick along with a LT AT VALUE.

[Frankie]

Why not? You still need Lineman regardless? Even if he is a RT, who cares? A tackle is a tackle, you still need guys who can block?
It doesn't work that way. The blindside tackle is much more valuable than the RT.

[Mecca]

Yeah, those Lions are a powerhouse with all those great 1st round BPA WR's now aren't they? If you seriously want to fill a need you take the best available at the spot you have to work with. Don't get some shiney new toy and get an inferior product for what you need. Then you still have the need the next time around too.

Reaching for needs is how you get shitty picks......

Would you rather have Joe Staley or Dwayne Bowe....there were people harping for Staley before last years draft.

[DaKCMan AP]

btw.. Jerry Jones likes Tebow :D

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071211/SPORTS/712110342/1002/SPORTS

[talastan]

I think that the issue is going to be null and void. The FO is IMO going to trade down a top five pick if no O-Linemen is worth it. Drop about 3-4 spots and pickup a good tackle for a lot less. That's assuming we get a top five pick. Chances are with NE having SF's pick, Miami, NYJ, Atlanta, etc. we are going to probably pick somewhere in the top ten. Provided we don't win anymore games?!

[RedThat]

It doesn't work that way. The blindside tackle is much more valuable than the RT.

That's what they say, but I don't buy it. A tackles job either way is to protect the QB whether he is a RT or a LT. In this league nowadays you got teams who have good DE's at both positions.

What if you're facing the Robert Mathis' of the league? The Aaron Kampman's? Or the Micheal Strahan's? Julius Peppers? Ok all those guys are in the NFC, but still, either tackle position is important?

I was watching the Packers game this year, and Chris Terry got his butt rapped by Kampman it was like a freeway. And it's pretty much been that way all year? What if you're facing the Chargers and you have to block 2 speed rushers coming off the edge Phillips and or "roidman" "roidman" Merriman? Or the Patriots or the Steelers? You better make sure you have a good set of tackles.

[Brock]

Uh, drafting a right tackle with a top 10 pick would rank right up there with drafting a guard.

[Mecca]

We'll trade down...have 14 picks which they can't all sign due to the rookie cap not being big enough....miss an elite player to take a good player...

Then whiff on second rounder and take a marginal 3rd rounder it will be a pure Chiefs draft.

[Calcountry]

No one thinks Bodie is the next Manning or Brady. Just that he might make a good and reliable NFL QB. But even Manning and Brady couldn't make chicken salad out of this offense chit.

So can we really evaluate Croyle as a possible QOTF in 4 games when we have the worse offense in the NFL and a team that has possibly quit on the season?Just ask yourself this question: "Would Trent Green done any better than BC behind that Oline?"

No, he wouldn't have. In fact, he may have even done worse because BC can move a little better than TG.

TG use to be known as TrINT so he threw pics, but, with a good oline was a decent QB.

Croyle is a decent QB behind an NFL level Oline IMHO.

[Mecca]

Green was a product of the guys around him, I don't think you'll get much argument on that. Green needed the best Oline in the game without it he wasn't good. He'd get flustered and throw flutter balls.

Green was the product of the guys around him, he's wasn't Manning or Brady who make everyone around them better. And even with that team with Green..do you think they'd beat the Pats or Colts...I don't and they proved they wouldn't a couple times.

And you don't win championships with decent QB, especially now....

[Calcountry]

We'll trade down...have 14 picks which they can't all sign due to the rookie cap not being big enough....miss an elite player to take a good player...

Then whiff on second rounder and take a marginal 3rd rounder it will be a pure Chiefs draft.If Carl is still here, you can be sure of that.

We might need someone to buy the Chiefs from Clark in order for things to improve.

We will get the answer to that question on how he, Clark, responds to Carl this offseason.

[Sure-Oz]

Green was a product of the guys around him, I don't think you'll get much argument on that. Green needed the best Oline in the game without it he wasn't good. He'd get flustered and throw flutter balls.

Green was the product of the guys around him, he's wasn't Manning or Brady who make everyone around them better. And even with that team with Green..do you think they'd beat the Pats or Colts...I don't and they proved they wouldn't a couple times.

And you don't win championships with decent QB, especially now....
Green's team had no shred of a defense, we scored enough points to win a game if our defense could make 1 single stop.

[RustShack]

Dick somewhat planed for the future... he drafted an awesome punter when his team didn't really need one...

[KCJohnny]

I strongly disagree with drafting a QB #1. I believe we have our QBotF. Now we need to surround him with an OL and some additional perimeter talent.

[JohnnyV13]

If croyle had a running game and time to throw, we'd all be talking about how good he is right now. At this point, you can't say its time to pull the plug on him.

If Croyle is truly a "bust", our record will suck next year too. Then we would likely have a shot at Tebow.

[Mecca]

Tim Tebow isn't exactly made for the NFL....

[RustShack]

Tebow wont be a good NFL QB.

[BigMeatballDave]

****ing stupid! NO QB in this league could have success behind this line. They better take an OT with their pick.

[MahiMike]

It's working out just right. Finally, they'll have to draft OL guys. 6 straight linemen picks would be good.

[Micjones]

I'm wondering what evidence is available to support claims that Croyle is our QBOTF?

He's going to end the season with an Incomplete on his report card let me tell it...

The same people who believe Croyle is the guy, at this moment, thought Jeff Webb was ready to be a legitimate #2 last off-season.

[BigMeatballDave]

Coach Herm Edwards agreed the conditions for a quarterback evaluation aren’t perfect.
No shit? ****ing retard.

[Mecca]

I'm wondering what evidence is available to support claims that Croyle is our QBOTF?

He's going to end the season with an Incomplete on his report card let me tell it...

The same people who believe Croyle is the guy, at this moment, thought Jeff Webb was ready to be a legitimate #2 last off-season.

Because people want him to be that is all.......People really need to take a step back and look at this realistically. Don't forget Chris Hannon...or that Pollard was gonna be awesome..

All the Oline be damned people are back again, lets take Jake Long, let's use a top 10 pick on a RT, that'll be brilliant.

Brodie Croyle doesn't scream franchise QB to me, above all else because he's made of glass. I don't trust him to ever play 16 games and that makes someone not a good starter.

If you think someone is a franchise QB you don't not take them because of Brodie Croyle that would be a huge mistake.

[BigMeatballDave]

Because if you take a QB in round 1 the team can't bring in 2 or 3 OL in free agency or use the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds to help build the offense?Dumb.

[Mecca]

Dumb.

Elaborate........

The Chiefs can still make the line quite a bit better without using their 1st pick on one...

[DaneMcCloud]

Elaborate........

The Chiefs can still make the line quite a bit better without using their 1st pick on one...

While this is true, it's unlikely that the Chiefs would be in a position to draft an elite left tackle in the second round. Possible? Yes. Likely? No.

The Chiefs will be able to find a quality right guard or right tackle in rounds two through four but starting left tackles are difficult to find beyond round two.

I fully expect to see three new starting offensive linemen next year, in addition to holdovers Waters and Niswanger. I believe that Niswanger is more suited towards guard and feel it would be a mistake to move him to another position.

The Chiefs have had almost no success moving players from their natural positions.

[Coach]

Somebody need to tell Titless that it won't matter if it's Matt Ryan, Brodie Croyle, or Brian Brohm back there, they won't perform jack shit until the offensive line issues is resolved.

[FAX]

Serious question, guys. What does Croyle have to do to demonstrate he has what it takes?

Win a game? If we did, we all know that would be an absolute abberation with this team. Throw for 400 yards? With this line? With this coaching philosophy? I flatulate at the concept.

So what would he have to do to prove himself?

FAX

[ChiefsCountry]

I really dont get why everybody says Carl will trade down? He has only traded down 3 times in the 18 years. Almost the same likely hood of him trading up, which was 2 times.

[BigMeatballDave]

IMO, the fact that Brodie has not stunk up the field behind this line speaks volumes. Fix the line and see what he can do.

[MadMax]

I'm wondering what evidence is available to support claims that Croyle is our QBOTF?

He's going to end the season with an Incomplete on his report card let me tell it...

The same people who believe Croyle is the guy, at this moment, thought Jeff Webb was ready to be a legitimate #2 last off-season.


No I never thought Webb was good, so don't generalize so much oh awesome predicter of the future..Why do you assume you are right? :rolleyes: I

[Mecca]

I don't think some of you have come to grips with 1 thing......this class at line has depth but there isn't any elite prospects unless Oher is coming out...

If he doesn't come out then frankly none of those guys are good enough to be worth the pick...

Say they take Matt Ryan, I'm not a big fan of the guy, but I'll use it as a hypothetical. You sit him for a year, you get the elite LT in next years class after working on the line this year too and then you're set....

This isn't all about just next year....

[FAX]

... The same people who believe Croyle is the guy, at this moment, thought Jeff Webb was ready to be a legitimate #2 last off-season.

With all respect, Mr. Micjones. That's just silly as hell. Not true and silly as hell. Not true, silly as hell, and really wrong.

FAX

[Micjones]

Because people want him to be that is all.......People really need to take a step back and look at this realistically. Don't forget Chris Hannon...or that Pollard was gonna be awesome..

Am I the only person willing to be patient with Pollard?
This is his first full season as a starter.

If you think someone is a franchise QB you don't not take them because of Brodie Croyle that would be a huge mistake.

At this point I don't think we've seen enough to make a decision either way. It's unfortunate, but I think you have to fix our offensive line woes and give Croyle a full season worth of evaluation time.

[OnTheWarpath15]

If you think someone is a franchise QB you don't not take them because of Brodie Croyle that would be a huge mistake.

Normally, I'd agree with you.

But this has to be the worst QB class since 1997.

Not sure why people think ANY of these guys are worthy of a high R1 pick.

[BigMeatballDave]

If Croyle is the next Tony Banks we HAVE to draft a QB in the first round.LMAO How the hell will you know this if he doesn't get a full season behind a better line. Some people need to think before they type...

[Mecca]

I really dont get why everybody says Carl will trade down? He has only traded down 3 times in the 18 years. Almost the same likely hood of him trading up, which was 2 times.

Probably the same people that scream Oline when our team needs cornerstone superstars more than any 1 position...some people will never learn.

[MadMax]

I'm wondering what evidence is available to support claims that Croyle is our QBOTF?

He's going to end the season with an Incomplete on his report card let me tell it...

The same people who believe Croyle is the guy, at this moment, thought Jeff Webb was ready to be a legitimate #2 last off-season.


No I never thought Webb was good, so don't generalize so much oh awesome predicter of the future..Why do you assume you are right? :rolleyes: I have no idea if he can be the QBOTF but he sure seems to have more talent than the last retard we started.And the reason he will have an incomplete on his report card is Carl and Herm, not his...

[Micjones]

No I never thought Webb was good, so don't generalize so much oh awesome predicter of the future..Why do you assume you are right? :rolleyes: I

What prediction have I offered up?

"I never thought Webb was good"... Was good enough.
Point taken.

*Pulls out handy swiss knife to rid you of the knot in yer drawers*

[Mecca]

Normally, I'd agree with you.

But this has to be the worst QB class since 1997.

Not sure why people think ANY of these guys are worthy of a high R1 pick.

Actually to be honest it's one of the better ones......there's at least 4 possibly 5 or 6 guys that will be looked at pretty highly out of this draft. If you think this is a bad QB year, I'd hate to see what you've thought over the past few...

[Hammock Parties]

Probably the same people that scream Oline when our team needs cornerstone superstars more than any 1 position...some people will never learn.

Are you kidding me? The offensive line is the biggest weakness on this team. We can't afford to ignore it this offseason just to get some big flashy superstar.

[Micjones]

I fully expect to see three new starting offensive linemen next year, in addition to holdovers Waters and Niswanger. I believe that Niswanger is more suited towards guard and feel it would be a mistake to move him to another position.

Isn't Center his natural position?

[MadMax]

Am I the only person willing to be patient with Pollard?
This is his first full season as a starter.



At this point I don't think we've seen enough to make a decision either way. It's unfortunate, but I think you have to fix our offensive line woes and give Croyle a full season worth of evaluation time.



ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yet Croyle after 4 games sucks?????

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't think some of you have come to grips with 1 thing......this class at line has depth but there isn't any elite prospects unless Oher is coming out...

If he doesn't come out then frankly none of those guys are good enough to be worth the pick...

Say they take Matt Ryan, I'm not a big fan of the guy, but I'll use it as a hypothetical. You sit him for a year, you get the elite LT in next years class after working on the line this year too and then you're set....

This isn't all about just next year....

Agreed.

I think Long can be a GREAT right tackle, but have doubts about his ability to be a franchise LT.

Oher is the only OL worthy of a Top 5 pick, IMO.

BPA. Unless you are so ridiculously STACKED at a certain position.

Which we're not.

[Mecca]

LMAO How the hell will you know this if he doesn't get a full season behind a better line. Some people need to think before they type...

So, if you take 1 and one guy turns out better than the other......you move one for a 1st or multiple picks....QB that are good will always have value.

There are much worse spots to be in than having 2 QB's, I'm simply saying don't lay this all on next year...this is a possible 3-4 year process.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Are you kidding me? The offensive line is the biggest weakness on this team. We can't afford to ignore it this offseason just to get some big flashy superstar.

I don't think he's advocating ignoring it, just questioning reaching 10-15 spots for a guy based on need.

[MadMax]

What prediction have I offered up?

"I never thought Webb was good"... Was good enough.
Point taken.

*Pulls out handy swiss knife to rid you of the knot in yer drawers*


well then " point taken " was good enough.. No need to take off the knot in my drawers. :deevee:

[Mecca]

Are you kidding me? The offensive line is the biggest weakness on this team. We can't afford to ignore it this offseason just to get some big flashy superstar.

You don't want to build this bad team around a superstar player at any position......I'd hate to have you be my GM, we'd be 8-8 every year.

[Micjones]

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yet Croyle after 4 games sucks?????

Not sure I follow...

We've seen much more of Pollard than we have Croyle.
Furthermore, apparently your comprehension skills are failing you.

I JUST SAID...
It's unfortunate, but I think you have to fix our offensive line woes and give Croyle a full season worth of evaluation time.

Did you miss that part?

[Mecca]

I don't think he's advocating ignoring it, just questioning reaching 10-15 spots for a guy based on need.

Pretty much, in this draft you can pick a starting Tackle in the 2nd round while still maximizing your first round pick. I highlighted in the other thread which FA's I thought they should target, it doesn't mean they'd get all of them but a couple of them would also help.

When you have a top 10 pick you do not pick on need you pick on which player you think is going to be a franchise cornerstone for the next decade.

[Micjones]

Agreed.

I think Long can be a GREAT right tackle, but have doubts about his ability to be a franchise LT.

Oher is the only OL worthy of a Top 5 pick, IMO.

BPA. Unless you are so ridiculously STACKED at a certain position.

Which we're not.

You'd take a LB #1 if he were the BPA?
Even when considering the fact that he won't make an immediate impact?

Where a guy like Clady could become a Day 1 starter?

Mmmkay...

[FAX]

Are you kidding me? The offensive line is the biggest weakness on this team. We can't afford to ignore it this offseason just to get some big flashy superstar.

I think Mr. Mecca has finally lost it. Have we not yet proven what happens when you pay out the wangadangie for a superstar RB and line him up behind one ex-probowler and 4 giant fools?

Sure. Let's draft a highly touted skill player in R1 and pay him a ton. Hell, let's draft all highly touted skill players and pay them all tons. Then, just hire Tony Robbins to convince the line they can actually block somebody.

FAX

[MadMax]

Not sure I follow...

We've seen much more of Pollard than we have Croyle.
Furthermore, apparently your comprehension skills are failing you.

I JUST SAID...


Did you miss that part?


I admit I DID miss that part, it's ok my comprehension skills are fine.. No need to yell my hearings fine.

[ChiefsCountry]

You'd take a LB #1 if he were the BPA?
Even when considering the fact that he won't make an immediate impact?

Where a guy like Clady could become a Day 1 starter?

Mmmkay...

See Johnson, Larry. Circa 2003 Draft.

[Fish]

You'd take a LB #1 if he were the BPA?
Even when considering the fact that he won't make an immediate impact?

Where a guy like Clady could become a Day 1 starter?

Mmmkay...

I would... and why would you assume he wouldn't make an immediate impact? Most first round LBs do...

[Coach]

I don't think some of you have come to grips with 1 thing......this class at line has depth but there isn't any elite prospects unless Oher is coming out...

If he doesn't come out then frankly none of those guys are good enough to be worth the pick...

Say they take Matt Ryan, I'm not a big fan of the guy, but I'll use it as a hypothetical. You sit him for a year, you get the elite LT in next years class after working on the line this year too and then you're set....

This isn't all about just next year....

I been asking, but I'm not sure if that question was answered. How good is Oher?

[Micjones]

Pretty much, in this draft you can pick a starting Tackle in the 2nd round while still maximizing your first round pick. I highlighted in the other thread which FA's I thought they should target, it doesn't mean they'd get all of them but a couple of them would also help.

When you have a top 10 pick you do not pick on need you pick on which player you think is going to be a franchise cornerstone for the next decade.

Jake Long wouldn't be such a player?
Ryan Clady wouldn't be such a player?
Sam Baker wouldn't be such a player?

I'm fine with fanagling the Tackle spot, but I don't think we can afford to put it off much longer than R2.

In that event we still should go after a player at a position of need.
Want to hold off on a Tackle until R2 and get a guy like Otah?

Fine...
Take Malcolm Jenkins in R1.

But holding off on a Tackle to draft a player who won't make an immediate impact (like a RB, LB, Safety) is dumb, dumb, dumb...

[Mecca]

Ok there are also exceptions to this rule...you notice the word I use "value".....I don't value RB's as highly as other positions because they break down faster...I also don't value the overall position of LB as high as others unless the guy is truly special.....

You need to understand things like that when I say value, notice I said cornerstone for a decade...RB's don't last a decade....

If they pick in the top 5, they're gonna have to look at QB, there is no choice but to consider it.

[ChiefsCountry]

But holding off on a Tackle to draft a player who won't make an immediate impact (Safety)

We could really use a strong safety, Pollard's future is as a Cover 2 linebacker.

[DaneMcCloud]

Isn't Center his natural position?

Niswanger played all five positions along the offensive line at LSU but spent most of his time at both guard positions.

He can play center but it appears he's a rather capable guard. Personally, I'd leave him there. All this moving guys around is not good for long-term success. It was a mistake with both Taint and Black and I guarantee that will continue if the Chiefs try to move D-Mac to the right side.

Leave Niswanger at guard.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You'd take a LB #1 if he were the BPA?
Even when considering the fact that he won't make an immediate impact?

Where a guy like Clady could become a Day 1 starter?

Mmmkay...

Assuming we're picking at 5:

Clady is a HUGE reach.

To take him, when the difference between him and the second and third round guys is marginal, would be a huge mistake.

What people are missing is that this draft has a lot of DEPTH on the OL. No standouts except Oher, but solid guys. Why reach on a guy with a Top 5 pick when you can get the SAME QUALITY player with your R2 pick?

Especially considering there may be guys like Sedrick Ellis, Laurinaitis, Chris Long, etc. available at that spot.

No one is saying we should ignore the OL.

But that doesn't mean REACH for one with a Top 5 pick.

[Mecca]

Jake Long wouldn't be such a player?
Ryan Clady wouldn't be such a player?
Sam Baker wouldn't be such a player?

I'm fine with fanagling the Tackle spot, but I don't think we can afford to put it off much longer than R2.

In that event we still should go after a player at a position of need.
Want to hold off on a Tackle until R2 and get a guy like Otah?

Fine...
Take Malcolm Jenkins in R1.

But holding off on a Tackle to draft a player who won't make an immediate impact (like a RB, LB, Safety) is dumb, dumb, dumb...

Let me explain something real quick.....Clady and Baker are guys who go between 10-20 most likely which make them reaches...taking a guy who projects as a RT at the next level is a shitty pick in the top 10..you have to also understand what positions have more value than others.

I don't hate Malcolm Jenkins but I most likely wouldn't take him there.....there are a few guys I'm lookin at basically. You want star cornerstone player here. This team is bad all around we aren't 1 player away, we need to build a young core of stars.

[Micjones]

I would... and why would you assume he wouldn't make an immediate impact? Most first round LBs do...

Derrick Johnson, Donnie Edwards, Napolean Harris.
No LB is going to unseat any of those LB's for at least 2 years.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I been asking, but I'm not sure if that question was answered. How good is Oher?

The next Odgen/Pace, according to many, including Tom Lemming.

The only true FRANCHISE left tackle in the draft, IMO.

[Mecca]

We could really use a strong safety, Pollard's future is as a Cover 2 linebacker.

Don't worry there's no safeties that good in this years draft.....

The best guys available are going to be DE, DT or QB most likely...if they aren't going Oline and Oher isn't in it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Derrick Johnson, Donnie Edwards, Napolean Harris.
No LB is going to unseat any of those LB's for at least 2 years.

James Laurinaitis could beat out Napoleon Harris TODAY.

[Mecca]

Derrick Johnson, Donnie Edwards, Napolean Harris.
No LB is going to unseat any of those LB's for at least 2 years.

No offense but Nap Harris sucks sweaty nutsack....and Donnie is old.

[Fish]

Derrick Johnson, Donnie Edwards, Napolean Harris.
No LB is going to unseat any of those LB's for at least 2 years.

A.J. Hawk would disagree.

If there's a LB worthy of that first pick, yes.

[Micjones]

Assuming we're picking at 5:

Clady is a HUGE reach.

Clady is but one player I named.
And we don't know yet where we're going to land on the draftboard.

Would Baker be as big a reach in the Top 10?

On the chance that you say yes...
We can trade down, acquire additional picks, and take a guy like Clady or Cherilus.

I'm not suggesting that we go in with no contingency plan.
I'm merely suggesting we use our best draft options for our biggest needs.

In the event that we do pick in the 5 hole.
We could...
1. Take Malcolm Jenkins (CB, one of our biggest needs)
2. Trade down and take Clady or another comparable Tackle (T, better value at 15)

To take him, when the difference between him and the second and third round guys is marginal, would be a huge mistake.

What people are missing is that this draft has a lot of DEPTH on the OL. No standouts except Oher, but solid guys. Why reach on a guy with a Top 5 pick when you can get the SAME QUALITY player with your R2 pick?

What Tackle graded out as a #3 is comparable to Oher?

[BigMeatballDave]

2003. Remember the offense we had the season? It was ALL due to the OL. Period. ANYONE who wants to draft a QB in the 1st, has rocks in their head. FIX THE ****ING LINE!

[Mecca]

If you look at any player and feel that guy is a star, a face of your franchise pro bowler for the next decade, you take him. I don't care if me and warpath are playing Oline, this team is not 1 player away...

The Oline can be improved in the mid rounds and next year also, we aren't going to be through this process i 1 year.

[Mecca]

2003. Remember the offense we had the season? It was ALL due to the OL. Period. ANYONE who wants to draft a QB in the 1st, has rocks in their head. FIX THE ****ING LINE!

You'd rather have a good RT than a dominant DT or DE.....that makes plenty of sense.

[AggressiveNapkin]

2003. Remember the offense we had the season? It was ALL due to the OL. Period. ANYONE who wants to draft a QB in the 1st, has rocks in their head. FIX THE ****ING LINE

Co-sign. Yeah Adrian Peterson is good, but i think the viks could put just about anyone back there that could run for a hundred.

[Micjones]

See Johnson, Larry. Circa 2003 Draft.

Johnson didn't have much of an impact until his second season.
And that was due largely in part to having no real options behind Priest Holmes.

This situation is a bit different.

We can't draft a MLB #1 on the chance that Harris gets hurt.
He may not. And if he doesn't... Your #1 has only minimal impact on your football team for 2 years.

[ChiefsCountry]

In the event that we do pick in the 5 hole.
We could...
1. Take Malcolm Jenkins (CB, one of our biggest needs)
2. Trade down and take Clady or another comparable Tackle (T, better value at 15)

What Tackle graded out as a #3 is comparable to Oher?

Or we could take Sedrick Ellis who is more worthy of a top 5 spot than Jenkins.

[Mecca]

The Vikings have a core of players that are mostly young....we don't.

Much different position to be in.

[Micjones]

If you look at any player and feel that guy is a star, a face of your franchise pro bowler for the next decade, you take him. I don't care if me and warpath are playing Oline, this team is not 1 player away...

You go on to say that we aren't one player away...
So why is it paramount that we draft a guy who could be a franchise player at a spot where we may already have one?

[FAX]

2003. Remember the offense we had the season? It was ALL due to the OL. Period. ANYONE who wants to draft a QB in the 1st, has rocks in their head. FIX THE ****ING LINE!

Amen. Any other strategy is utterly insane at this point. Whether you want to see results next year, or three years from now.

This line is the biggest problem Herm has. And he has a lot of problems. Going through this off season trying to piece-meal another line together should be grounds for a clorox bottle ass ramming.

FAX

[OnTheWarpath15]

Clady is but one player I named.
And we don't know yet where we're going to land on the draftboard.

Would Baker be as big a reach in the Top 10?

On the chance that you say yes...
We can trade down, acquire additional picks, and take a guy like Clady or Cherilus.

I'm not suggesting that we go in with no contingency plan.
I'm merely suggesting we use our best draft options for our biggest needs.

In the event that we do pick in the 5 hole.
We could...
1. Take Malcolm Jenkins (CB, one of our biggest needs)
2. Trade down and take Clady or another comparable Tackle (T, better value at 15)

Yes, Baker would be just as big of a reach, IMHO.

Trading down is great in theory, but finding a trading partner that not only has two R1 picks (only Dallas this year) and is willing to move up and be forced to PAY a Top 5 player isn't as easy as it sounds.



What Tackle graded out as a #3 is comparable to Oher?

Run that by me again. Not sure what you're asking re: #3

[Mecca]

Johnson didn't have much of an impact until his second season.
And that was due largely in part to having no real options behind Priest Holmes.

This situation is a bit different.

We can't draft a MLB #1 on the chance that Harris gets hurt.
He may not. And if he doesn't... Your #1 has only minimal impact on your football team for 2 years.

I think you need to start realizing who the top 5-10 players in the draft are before you start throwing shit out like this......

Also if they take a MLB that high Nap Harris will be cut about 5 minutes later.

[Micjones]

Or we could take Sedrick Ellis who is more worthy of a top 5 spot than Jenkins.

Why would we add an unknown at DT when we have two recently drafted players at the same position?

[Mecca]

Yes, Baker would be just as big of a reach, IMHO.

Trading down is great in theory, but finding a trading partner that not only has two R1 picks (only Dallas this year) and is willing to move up and be forced to PAY a Top 5 player isn't as easy as it sounds.





Run that by me again. Not sure what you're asking re: #3

I think he's asking if there's a 3rd rounder comparable.....

Here's the problem I don't think people see, at the next level there's not a whole lot of difference in Jake Long and Barry Richardson at OT...where Richardson is likely on the board at our 2nd pick...

Where as there's a huge difference from Sedrick Ellis to the next DT or the QB's.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You go on to say that we aren't one player away...
So why is it paramount that we draft a guy who could be a franchise player at a spot where we may already have one?

Outside of maybe DJ and Jared Allen, where do you see franchise players on this roster?

[Mecca]

Why would we add an unknown at DT when we have two recently drafted players at the same position?

Um unknown........Sedrick Ellis is a ****in beast. Ellis would take a big fat shit all over every single DT on this roster, I watch that man play every single week, he is DOMINANT, he is Warren Sapp in his prime good. Dorsey gets all the hype, Ellis is every bit as good.

[Micjones]

I think you need to start realizing who the top 5-10 players in the draft are before you start throwing shit out like this......

Also if they take a MLB that high Nap Harris will be cut about 5 minutes later.

:rolleyes:

Glenn Dorsey
Darren McFadden
Jake Long
Sedrick Ellis
Chris Long
Matt Ryan

Am I in the ballpark Chief?

Napolean Harris isn't going to be canned if we take a MLB in this draft.

[BigMeatballDave]

You'd rather have a good RT than a dominant DT or DE.....that makes plenty of sense.WTF?
:spock:

[Mecca]

And guess what if all those guys you named....I rate Jake Long at the bottom of that list.

[Coach]

The next Odgen/Pace, according to many, including Tom Lemming.

The only true FRANCHISE left tackle in the draft, IMO.

Would be nice. We'll see what happens during combines.

[Micjones]

Um unknown........Sedrick Ellis is a ****in beast. Ellis would take a big fat shit all over every single DT on this roster, I watch that man play every single week, he is DOMINANT, he is Warren Sapp in his prime good. Dorsey gets all the hype, Ellis is every bit as good.

Fair enough.
Problem is... We still don't know what we have in McBride and Tyler.
So... You advocate drafting a player at a spot where we have options while we ignore positions on the team where we don't?

Got it ace...

[Mecca]

WTF?
:spock:

There are no elite OT prospects in this draft, there may be 1 but indication is right now he isn't coming out.....many project Jake Long as a RT....

So you'd rather have Jake Long than Chris Long or Sedrick Ellis, that's all I was sayin.

[Micjones]

And guess what if all those guys you named....I rate Jake Long at the bottom of that list.

Are these draft projections about what we think personally or about the consensus of draft experts?

[Coach]

Fair enough.
Problem is... We still don't know what we have in McBride and Tyler.
So... You advocate drafting a player at a spot where we have options while we ignore positions on the team where we don't?

Got it ace...

Well, what is our options isn't that good? What if McBride and Tyler is just another Freeman and Downing?

[FAX]

WTF?
:spock:

He's lost it. I can't read this thread anymore.

I surrender.

FAX

[Mecca]

Fair enough.
Problem is... We still don't know what we have in McBride and Tyler.
So... You advocate drafting a player at a spot where we have options while we ignore positions on the team where we don't?

Got it ace...

You'd rather have a couple average guys than a pro bowler, that is what you are telling me.

[BigMeatballDave]

Amen. Any other strategy is utterly insane at this point. Whether you want to see results next year, or three years from now.

This line is the biggest problem Herm has. And he has a lot of problems. Going through this off season trying to piece-meal another line together should be grounds for a clorox bottle ass ramming.

FAXLMAO

[DaneMcCloud]

Outside of maybe DJ and Jared Allen, where do you see franchise players on this roster?

I think D-Bowe falls into that category and it's possible that Kolby Smith could be a Pro-Bowl RB with a good offensive line. He certainly has the wiggle and vision.

[Mecca]

Well, what is our options isn't that good? What if McBride and Tyler is just another Freeman and Downing?

I lost it.......

I'm sorry man, I just don't think a lot of people really 'get it" this team needs franchise players. Not someone going "Oh we can't take Sedrick Ellis we got Turk McBride"

That is seriously one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

[OnTheWarpath15]

:rolleyes:

Glenn Dorsey
Darren McFadden
Jake Long
Sedrick Ellis
Chris Long
Matt Ryan

Am I in the ballpark Chief?

Napolean Harris isn't going to be canned if we take a MLB in this draft.

Take out Matt Ryan and add:

Michael Oher (provided he declares)
James Laurinaitis
Malcolm Jenkins
Calais Campbell


Nap Harris is garbage. Like I said before Laurinaitis could beat him out today.

[Coach]

I lost it.......

I'm sorry man, I just don't think a lot of people really 'get it" this team needs franchise players. Not someone going "Oh we can't take Sedrick Ellis we got Turk McBride"

That is seriously one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Well, I remember the Saints picked Will Smith when they had Darren Howard and Charles Grant, and I wondered why they picked him when they had two good DE's.

I figured it out pretty quick, is becuase Smith was the best player at the board for the Saints at the time, and not to mention that Howard was left to go to the FA.

[ChiefsCountry]

Get a bad ass DT and I bet Nap Harris would look a whole lot better.

[Mecca]

I don't think some of you have come to grips with how bad this team is....

A top 10 pick should beat out any player on this team save maybe 4 guys.

I also think it's funny that I can say till I'm blue in the face that right now there are no elite Olineman worth a top 8 pick and that just gets ignored, fine waste the value of a high pick when you can get almost equal value to that player in the next round.

[Coach]

Take out Matt Ryan and add:

Michael Oher (provided he declares)
James Laurinaitis
Malcolm Jenkins
Calais Campbell


Nap Harris is garbage. Like I said before Laurinaitis could beat him out today.

I do agree that Harris is garbage. But a MLB does benefit from two solid DT's. And the Chiefs doesn't even have one elite DT. Boone is serviceable, but he's not a "game changer" DT.

[Mecca]

Well, I remember the Saints picked Will Smith when they had Darren Howard and Charles Grant, and I wondered why they picked him when they had two good DE's.

I figured it out pretty quick, is becuase Smith was the best player at the board for the Saints at the time, and not to mention that Howard was left to go to the FA.

And those ends were actually good, for all we know McBride and Tyler suck ass, the fact that they still don't get on the field much should tell us something...

[FAX]

I think where we differ, Mr. Mecca is that this oline is holding us back from anything. Anything!! It's hurting our defense and our offense can't progress. Hell, the only thing comparable is our return team.

BAA? Sure. Glom on to highly touted (possibly overhyped) skill players or defensive superstars in lieu of any improvement whatsoever on the oline? No. A thousand times, no.

Most years, I might agree, but this year is different. It's that bad. It really, really is.

FAX

[Coach]

I don't think some of you have come to grips with how bad this team is....

A top 10 pick should beat out any player on this team save maybe 4 guys.

I also think it's funny that I can say till I'm blue in the face that right now there are no elite Olineman worth a top 8 pick and that just gets ignored, fine waste the value of a high pick when you can get almost equal value to that player in the next round.

Oh this team is very bad. I just think the O-Line is just in worse shape than the D-line is as of this point.

[Coach]

And those ends were actually good, for all we know McBride and Tyler suck ass, the fact that they still don't get on the field much should tell us something...

Perhaps. That's why I mentioned maybe that they might be just another Downing and/or Freeman.

[Mecca]

I do agree that Harris is garbage. But a MLB does benefit from two solid DT's. And the Chiefs doesn't even have one elite DT. Boone is serviceable, but he's not a "game changer" DT.

We're likely going to get at least another year of Nap.......

But I'll say this, this team takes Jake Long over Sedrick Ellis and Chris Long I'll question my fandom of this team.

[BigMeatballDave]

I also think it's funny that I can say till I'm blue in the face that right now there are no elite Olineman worth a top 8 pick and that just gets ignored, fine waste the value of a high pick when you can get almost equal value to that player in the next round.Even though all the mocks have Long and Baker going top 10...
:rolleyes:

[Mecca]

I think where we differ, Mr. Mecca is that this oline is holding us back from anything. Anything!! It's hurting our defense and our offense can't progress. Hell, the only thing comparable is our return team.

BAA? Sure. Glom on to highly touted (possibly overhyped) skill players or defensive superstars in lieu of any improvement whatsoever on the oline? No. A thousand times, no.

Most years, I might agree, but this year is different. It's that bad. It really, really is.

FAX

Ok let me lay my views out here.........I said in the other thread I'd target Sean Locklear and Nat Dorsey in FA.......say I take Sedrick Ellis with my first pick a DT.....I come back with Barry Richardson in the 2nd and take a guard in the 4th.....

How am I ****ing the team by not taking a OT with my first pick when I don't feel they are worth the pick? You can address a position without reaching and getting ridiculous.

[Coach]

We're likely going to get at least another year of Nap.......

But I'll say this, this team takes Jake Long over Sedrick Ellis and Chris Long I'll question my fandom of this team.

Well, as I mentioned before, O-Line is in worse shape than the D-line. Also factor in that the offense isn't doing anything, isn't helping the defense.

Really, the draft is just a total crapshoot. I mean, anybody can be a world beater coming out of the college ranks, and just totally flop in the NFL.

Steve Emtman comes to mind. Dimitrius Underwood is another.

[Mecca]

Even though all the mocks have Long and Baker going top 10...
:rolleyes:

That's not true.....Long is yes, but I believe Long projects as a RT and to me RT's are not worth top 10 picks....

Baker has fallen he projects at 15-20 now......he's maxed out and likely will not get much better than he is right now, and that's from me a guy who watches him play every week.

[RustShack]

As much as I would like to see Long, I think we are better off with a DT in the first round. There will be first round talent left for a Olineman when we draft in the 2nd round.

[ChiefsCountry]

Long is a top 10 pick but Baker is projected later in most drafts. Baker is going to be a John Alt type IMO. Above-average OT who will go to a couple of Pro Bowls but will never be the true superstar LT.

[Mecca]

Well, as I mentioned before, O-Line is in worse shape than the D-line. Also factor in that the offense isn't doing anything, isn't helping the defense.

Really, the draft is just a total crapshoot. I mean, anybody can be a world beater coming out of the college ranks, and just totally flop in the NFL.

Steve Emtman comes to mind. Dimitrius Underwood is another.

Emtman was good till he got hurt....and the Underwood pick was just stupid everyone said that was a god awful pick.

[Coach]

Even though all the mocks have Long and Baker going top 10...
:rolleyes:

Keep in mind that Brady Quinn was mocked in the top 10 last year, and he fell all the way down to 22.

Mock Drafts = Diddly shit.

[Mecca]

Let me explain it like this......wouldn't you rather get an impact player and a good Olineman.....than a good Olineman and who knows what else?

Unless Oher is declaring this isn't going to be the year the lockdown LT is available at the top. So you take the players build up some more, probably don't have a good year but you get younger some more of the core is built and you are in position for Oher that next year.

[Coach]

Let me explain it like this......wouldn't you rather get an impact player and a good Olineman.....than a good Olineman and who knows what else?

Unless Oher is declaring this isn't going to be the year the lockdown LT is available at the top. So you take the players build up some more, probably don't have a good year but you get younger some more of the core is built and you are in position for Oher that next year.

Is there a reason why Oher isn't coming out this year? If he's projected to be a very good LT, why would he want to stay in school for another year?

Just a honest question.

[Mecca]

There was a deal where he talked to the coach and I guess he was leaning to coming back....he's been through a lot in his life honestly so that may play in...

[RustShack]

Long did it last year.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think where we differ, Mr. Mecca is that this oline is holding us back from anything. Anything!! It's hurting our defense and our offense can't progress. Hell, the only thing comparable is our return team.

BAA? Sure. Glom on to highly touted (possibly overhyped) skill players or defensive superstars in lieu of any improvement whatsoever on the oline? No. A thousand times, no.

Most years, I might agree, but this year is different. It's that bad. It really, really is.

FAX

Mr. FAX, let me put it a different way.

Again, no one is saying we're not going to draft OL, just that it may not make sense to reach on a guy based on need alone.

Just because Jake Long is one of the highest rated OL in THIS CLASS doesn't necessarily make him a good pro prospect, especially as a "franchise" LT. It makes him good compared to the rest of the class. He's nowhere near a Jonathan Ogden/Orlando Pace type tackle. Outside of Oher, the OT's in this draft are solid, yet not spectacular, IMO.

Let's use the 2001 draft as an example. Assume the Chiefs are picking #6 and have the same needs they have right now.

Are you telling me you'd pass up a Richard Seymour to draft a tackle like Kenyatta Walker or Jeff Backus who rated 10-15 spots lower just to fill a need?

[Mecca]

Plenty of guys go back, Glenn Dorsey did and he was easily a top 5 guy last year.

[Mecca]

It's gonna take 2 years to fix this line not 1.....there are far to many other issues to just focus on that 1 thing. What I wanna do addresses both lines...

I'd still look at the QB's but that would all come down to personal opinion in the end.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Is there a reason why Oher isn't coming out this year? If he's projected to be a very good LT, why would he want to stay in school for another year?

Just a honest question.

He's apparently undecided, but my guess is he'll declare since Ed Orgeron was let go as coach of Ole Miss. They had a pretty solid relationship.

I'd be SHOCKED if he doesn't declare.

[Coach]

It's gonna take 2 years to fix this line not 1.....there are far to many other issues to just focus on that 1 thing. What I wanna do addresses both lines...

I'd still look at the QB's but that would all come down to personal opinion in the end.

I think it will take 2-3 years to fix this. I just wish the coaching staff will be more "adapt" to this type of talent level than the current incompent coaching staff we have.

As for the QB's, to me, it's going to be hard to grade them if they don't have the time to throw the damn ball, becuase the line isn't even giving him time to throw it.

[Mecca]

I think it will take 2-3 years to fix this. I just wish the coaching staff will be more "adapt" to this type of talent level than the current incompent coaching staff we have.

As for the QB's, to me, it's going to be hard to grade them if they don't have the time to throw the damn ball, becuase the line isn't even giving him time to throw it.

If I took a QB first he wouldn't play this year......I think by next year the oline would be at least average so I could put him in..I think Croyle is probably a backup at this level, I know that isn't popular around here but it's my opinion at the time.

[Coach]

There was a deal where he talked to the coach and I guess he was leaning to coming back....he's been through a lot in his life honestly so that may play in...

That's what I thought, but at the same time, as OnTheWarpath58 mentioned, he did have a solid relationship with the former coach in Ed Orgeron.

Why would you want to go back to school for one more year with a new coach, not to mention, that more than likely you will have to learn a different type of a playbook, which COULD affect his abilities?

Seems too risky.

[CupidStunt]

I think people are a little jaded about LB because of the off-season hype but, unfortunately, it is a very real and major need. Nap Harris sucks ass and Edwards is a crusty MF'er who'll probably hang 'em up in a few months.

Keyaron Fox? Pat fuggin' Thomas? Get outta here.

Saying that the Chiefs shouldn't draft a LB just because Harris got a decent contract and Edwards is a fan-favorite, plus the rest of our team sucks, is very short-sighted. The draft just doesn't work that way. It's not for picking the best player at the position you suck the most; it's about picking the best player (with no qualifiers).

How does Laurinaitis help? Well, he'll send that piece of shit Harris to the bench and hopefully out of town, and he'll actually TACKLE and make plays in the backfield. He'll do his part to stop the Chiefs' opponent running all over them like a heap of trash. He'll be one of the best players on the defense.

Yeah, Clady might be a nice option at LT. But don't cry if the Chiefs add a great talent to the team that doesn't play OT.

[Coach]

If I took a QB first he wouldn't play this year......I think by next year the oline would be at least average so I could put him in..I think Croyle is probably a backup at this level, I know that isn't popular around here but it's my opinion at the time.

I understand your opinion, but I think Croyle is capable of performing well in this league. All he needs is a O-line.

Seriously, his line in Alabama was much better than this chicken shit that we're seeing right now, and it's not even worthy of any kind of argument.

[OnTheWarpath15]

That's what I thought, but at the same time, as OnTheWarpath58 mentioned, he did have a solid relationship with the former coach in Ed Orgeron.

Why would you want to go back to school for one more year with a new coach, not to mention, that more than likely you will have to learn a different type of a playbook, which COULD affect his abilities?

Seems too risky.

Especially when that new coach is Houston Nutt.


:)

[Mecca]

I understand your opinion, but I think Croyle is capable of performing well in this league. All he needs is a O-line.

Seriously, his line in Alabama was much better than this chicken shit that we're seeing right now, and it's not even worthy of any kind of argument.

The injury history is the number 1 thing that gets me with him. I'm not sure he could ever make it 16 games, even QB's with good lines get hit. I don't think it's a really great idea to build your team around a QB that you aren't sure will be out there every week.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think people are a little jaded about LB because of the off-season hype but, unfortunately, it is a very real and major need. Nap Harris sucks ass and Edwards is a crusty MF'er who'll probably hang 'em up in a few months.

Keyaron Fox? Pat fuggin' Thomas? Get outta here.

Saying that the Chiefs shouldn't draft a LB just because Harris got a decent contract and Edwards is a fan-favorite, plus the rest of our team sucks, is very short-sighted. The draft just doesn't work that way. It's not for picking the best player at the position you suck the most; it's about picking the best player (with no qualifiers).

How does Laurinaitis help? Well, he'll send that piece of shit Harris to the bench and hopefully out of town, and he'll actually TACKLE and make plays in the backfield. He'll do his part to stop the Chiefs' opponent running all over them like a heap of trash. He'll be one of the best players on the defense.

Yeah, Clady might be a nice option at LT. But don't cry if the Chiefs add a great talent to the team that doesn't play OT.

I was with you until you mentioned Clady.

We have ONE solid LB for the future. We may not have ANY DT's for the future and it sure as hell doesn't look like we have any CB's of the future.

A top 5 pick would start at just about ANY position on this team.

[Mecca]

I think some of the people here have become to accustom to drafting for need instead of the top players.

[RustShack]

Top players on the board are going to change a lot between now and after the NFL combine.

[Rasputin]

Croyle deserves to be starter next year. Fix the O-line & watch this kid grow into a champion. Brodie is awesome, the kid has a sure fire win attitude and has a shotgun arm. Give the kid a chance, especially with a new O-line.

All the cards are stacked against him for success, he was dealt a bad hand and is having to make the best of it. You don't hear him blaming others, he doesn't feel sorry for himself. He wants to play and learn and get better to prove himself to the coaches, teamates & fans.

He's gonna have this offseason to study tape and work with his WRs. He is gonna be a better QB next year and he can build chemistry with D Bowe.

Brodie is the man. I like Brodie and want him to be our QB for a long time. Build this team around him give him some weapons and an O-line. Give him a chance for success and he will deliver.

[DaneMcCloud]

It's gonna take 2 years to fix this line not 1.....there are far to many other issues to just focus on that 1 thing. What I wanna do addresses both lines...

I'd still look at the QB's but that would all come down to personal opinion in the end.

I don't buy that for a second.

Left Tackle: 2008 draft
Left Guard: Waters
Center: 2008 draft
Right Guard: Niswanger
Right Tackle: Free agency (Starks, et al).

This line will be dramatically improved this offseason.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Top players on the board are going to change a lot between now and after the NFL combine.

True, but they really shouldn't.

Too many teams get too caught up in workouts and completely overvalue a guy.

Joe Staley was a PERFECT example last year.

Boards now are based on TALENT ON THE FIELD.

Boards later will be littered with guys that don't belong.

Two questions to ask:

Can the kid play at this level?

Is the kid SMART enough to play at this level?

Shuttle times, bench press and the like are overrated, IMO.

You don't play on Sunday's in a t-shirt and shorts.

[RustShack]

I think we need to bring in a great offensive mind for our OC and we definitely need a new QB's coach. Along with those Brodie needs a way better Oline, and another WR or two. Then they just need time to grow together.

[Coach]

The injury history is the number 1 thing that gets me with him. I'm not sure he could ever make it 16 games, even QB's with good lines get hit. I don't think it's a really great idea to build your team around a QB that you aren't sure will be out there every week.

Understandable, but then again, everybody on the NFL field is suspect to any kind of injuries.

I know that it's not a great idea to build your team around a QB that may end up getting injured, but, to lessen the damage, one must build a line.

[RustShack]

True, but they really shouldn't.

Too many teams get too caught up in workouts and completely overvalue a guy.

Joe Staley was a PERFECT example last year.

Boards now are based on TALENT ON THE FIELD.

Boards later will be littered with guys that don't belong.

Two questions to ask:

Can the kid play at this level?

Is the kid SMART enough to play at this level?

Shuttle times, bench press and the like are overrated, IMO.

You don't play on Sunday's in a t-shirt and shorts.

Exactly how I feel. You play a lot different in pads than you do in shorts. The players who are high ranked now and fall because of the combine usually end up being a lot better than the guys who went higher than them due to the combine.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't buy that for a second.

Left Tackle: 2008 draft
Left Guard: Waters
Center: 2008 draft
Right Guard: Niswanger
Right Tackle: Free agency (Starks, et al).

This line will be dramatically improved this offseason.

Dramatically improved does not necessarily equal fixed, Dane.

Let's face it, just about ANYONE could be an improvement over this line.

[Coach]

I think some of the people here have become to accustom to drafting for need instead of the top players.

Even drafting for a need is a hell of a improvement one way or another, considering that we have so many holes on this team, except for one DE, and the Punter.

[ChiefsCountry]

The injury history is the number 1 thing that gets me with him. I'm not sure he could ever make it 16 games, even QB's with good lines get hit. I don't think it's a really great idea to build your team around a QB that you aren't sure will be out there every week.

He made it two years at Alabama starting every game.

[Mecca]

So Dane is telling me better than awful is good.....

The Tackles in this draft almost all project to being better at RT than LT....Max Starks isn't any good...let's waste some money, that's brilliant.

[Hammock Parties]

So Dane is telling me better than awful is good.....

The Tackles in this draft almost all project to being better at RT than LT....Max Starks isn't any good...let's waste some money, that's brilliant.

Are you seriously suggesting we pass on Jake Long if he falls in our laps?

[RustShack]

Trent Green also had the injury bug when we picked him up. He turned out fine, hes also about the same size as Croyle.

[Mecca]

Understandable, but then again, everybody on the NFL field is suspect to any kind of injuries.

I know that it's not a great idea to build your team around a QB that may end up getting injured, but, to lessen the damage, one must build a line.

I'm sure people would go nutso if it was up to me because I'd be drafting another QB in this draft.

[Coach]

I'm sure people would go nutso if it was up to me because I'd be drafting another QB in this draft.

And I'll probably say "Dammit Mecca! :cuss:"




:D

[Mecca]

Are you seriously suggesting we pass on Jake Long if he falls in our laps?

I don't rate Jake Long that highly and I believe by the time this draft comes to fruition he will have dropped some, he doesn't grade out that well as a LT.

Jake Long overall due to that becomes a less valuable commodity, with other guys going above him...there's a good chance he won't be a top 10 guy come draft day.

[Mecca]

And I'll probably say "Dammit Mecca! :cuss:"




:D

LOL.....I know Holmezz would go nuts because my favorite QB in this draft is Colt Brennan and I wouldn't have to use my first pick to get him.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Are you seriously suggesting we pass on Jake Long if he falls in our laps?

Tough question.

Would depend on who else was there at our spot.

There's just not that much of a dropoff between Long and a guy we could get in R2, IMO.

[DaneMcCloud]

So Dane is telling me better than awful is good.....

The Tackles in this draft almost all project to being better at RT than LT....Max Starks isn't any good...let's waste some money, that's brilliant.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth, genius. :rolleyes:

I used Starks as an example. He's certainly an upgrade at right tackle (though he has played on both sides) and he probably won't break the bank. By the way, the guy that replaced him in Colon is a second year, fourth round choice. So it's ridiculous for you say that's it IMPOSSIBLE to upgrade this offensive line quickly through the draft.

Additionally, the Chiefs will have at least $20 million in cap room. It's going to be up to Clark how much he's willing to spend on signing bonuses to retain Allen and upgrade the offensive line.

[Coach]

LOL.....I know Holmezz would go nuts because my favorite QB in this draft is Colt Brennan and I wouldn't have to use my first pick to get him.

Well as long as it's not on the first round, I probably won't care less. Come to think of it, it might be a good idea to find a QB, considering that Hutard isn't even worthy of being on this roster.

[DaneMcCloud]

Tough question.

Would depend on who else was there at our spot.

There's just not that much of a dropoff between Long and a guy we could get in R2, IMO.

I'd prefer to wait until after the Senior Bowl, East-West game and combines to make that kind of determination.

[RustShack]

LOL.....I know Holmezz would go nuts because my favorite QB in this draft is Colt Brennan and I wouldn't have to use my first pick to get him.

He is also my favorite, but I'm comfortable with Croyle.

[Mecca]

I'd much rather them build a young team through the draft for 3-4 years than stop gapping by spending big money in FA.....

I just don't like Max Starks at all, I think they can get a Tackle and a Guard this year then finish it up next year without spending huge bank.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth, genius. :rolleyes:

I used Starks as an example. He's certainly an upgrade at right tackle (though he has played on both sides) and he probably won't break the bank. By the way, the guy that replaced him in Colon is a second year, second round choice. So it's ridiculous for you say that's it IMPOSSIBLE to upgrade this offensive line quickly through the draft.

Additionally, the Chiefs will have at least $20 million in cap room. It's going to be up to Clark how much he's willing to spend on signing bonuses to retain Allen and upgrade the offensive line.

I guess the point Mecca and I are trying to make is that it would almost be impossible NOT to improve at least a little bit as long as we drafted OL.

Seriously, in hindsight, this OL would have been improved had we kept *god forgive me* Jordan Black and played him at RT.

You want a better line, a serviceable line? No problem. That can happen in a year.

You want a top-notch, kick-ass OL that is stocked with Pro Bowlers for years to come?

Draft them over a 2-3 year span, and don't waste $ on half-ass FA acquisitions.

[Mecca]

Well as long as it's not on the first round, I probably won't care less. Come to think of it, it might be a good idea to find a QB, considering that Hutard isn't even worthy of being on this roster.

For a long time I was always about tools guys at QB, hey he's big he's got this arm he does that, I've come to find out all that stuff isn't that important...Tom Brady doesn't have some rocket arm...

You watch Brennan you see "it" the same thing I never see with Matt Ryan. The guy who brings his team back when down 21-0. The guy with the stones the guy who makes big plays at big times.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'd much rather them build a young team through the draft for 3-4 years than stop gapping by spending big money in FA.....

I just don't like Max Starks at all, I think they can get a Tackle and a Guard this year then finish it up next year without spending huge bank.

Well Mecca, they have to either draft or pay SOMEBODY to start on the right side of the line because Turley, Welbourne and all the other dead fish are gone after this year.

I find it extremely unlikely that the Chiefs will hit on LT, C and RT in the 2008 draft (though it would be incredible). So, a right tackle will need to come from somewhere because I guarantee that D-Mac is not the solution.

[DaneMcCloud]

I guess the point Mecca and I are trying to make is that it would almost be impossible NOT to improve at least a little bit as long as we drafted OL.

Seriously, in hindsight, this OL would have been improved had we kept *god forgive me* Jordan Black and played him at RT.

You want a better line, a serviceable line? No problem. That can happen in a year.

You want a top-notch, kick-ass OL that is stocked with Pro Bowlers for years to come?

Draft them over a 2-3 year span, and don't waste $ on half-ass FA acquisitions.

I'm with you. But whether or not the Chiefs draft and start a right tackle or center in 2008 that isn't Pro-Bowl caliber isn't the issue. The issue is that every offensive lineman (with the exception of Waters and he'll be finished soon enough) will need to be replaced. And it's possible that the replacement will be a short-term solution.

[Mecca]

Well Mecca, they have to either draft or pay SOMEBODY to start on the right side of the line because Turley, Welbourne and all the other dead fish are gone after this year.

I find it extremely unlikely that the Chiefs will hit on LT, C and RT in the 2008 draft (though it would be incredible). So, a right tackle will need to come from somewhere because I guarantee that D-Mac is not the solution.

You can buy a year......although I said in that other thread the Chiefs should talk to Sean Locklear, I would.

[DaneMcCloud]

You can buy a year......although I said in that other thread the Chiefs should talk to Sean Locklear, I would.

And that's what I'm talking about.

Not just plugging in a guy to plug in a guy.

That's how the Chiefs got where they are.

[Coach]

For a long time I was always about tools guys at QB, hey he's big he's got this arm he does that, I've come to find out all that stuff isn't that important...Tom Brady doesn't have some rocket arm...

You watch Brennan you see "it" the same thing I never see with Matt Ryan. The guy who brings his team back when down 21-0. The guy with the stones the guy who makes big plays at big times.

I'm all for that. But at the same time, I also feel that Brodie is capable of doing that as well.

I'd like to see what Croyle can do when he has the O-Line that will allow him time to actually run some 3, 5-step drops. Right now, his line won't even block long enough to run a 3-step drop without getting major pressure.

[Mecca]

I meant as far as buying a year, with McIntosh because he's already here. Say the Chiefs sign Locklear he can play RG or RT....depending on the draft and probably won't demand a ton of money.

[ChiefsCountry]

Chiefs need a repeat of the 1990 draft. That was what Marty built this team on, the defense was basically in place when he got here. Just added DT to the mix. 1990 - Chiefs got Grunhard, Szott, and Derrick Graham. Combined with Alt and Lutz, then Shield build the team for the next decade.

[Fish]

I'm all for that. But at the same time, I also feel that Brodie is capable of doing that as well.

I'd like to see what Croyle can do when he has the O-Line that will allow him time to actually run some 3, 5-step drops. Right now, his line won't even block long enough to run a 3-step drop without getting major pressure.


Me too...... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=4446739&postcount=13

:D

[Chiefnj2]

You want a top-notch, kick-ass OL that is stocked with Pro Bowlers for years to come?

Draft them over a 2-3 year span, and don't waste $ on half-ass FA acquisitions.

When have the Chiefs shown the ability to consistently draft and develop players?

[MadMax]

Blah! He's a bust and made of glass...Shit can him. Draft another.

[OnTheWarpath15]

When have the Chiefs shown the ability to consistently draft and develop players?

Well, **** it then.

Let's call the league and tell them we're forfeiting our 10 picks.

:rolleyes: