Rank our Chiefs upgrade needs from 1 to 25. [Archive]

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Rain Man

12-14-2007, 04:20 PM

The rules:

1. Sadly, we can't include coaches and general managers.

2. Next to each position, list the highest round that you would want to invest in that position based on our current needs and roster and the value of the position, and then also list the lowest round where you think we could pick up an upgrade player who would have a strong chance of coming in as a starter.

3. With respect to Rule 2, assume that we have a coach and a general manager who have a clue instead of Herm and Carl.

4. The list will include 11 offensive positions, 11 defensive positions, and K, P, and KR/PR.

Here's my list, below. According to my own preferences, there are 8 positions where we could draft a player who could make an immediate impact. The good news is that several of those could produce an impact player outside the first round if Carl and Herm weren't buffoons.

My ideal draft would include the following choices, with a preferred structure in bold.

Round 1: RT or QB - Take the QB if you can get a franchise guy, otherwise a RT
Round 2: RT, RG, or C - Top-rated lineman here, preferably at RG
Round 3: RT, RG, or MLB - Top-rated G or T unless we've already taken them in the first 2 rounds.
Round 4: KR/PR or FB - Pick up the top two guys at these lower cost positions.
Round 5: KR/PR or FB
Round 6: KR/PR or FB
Round 7: KR/PR or FB

Position (Player) - Highest preferred investment, pick required to improve

1. RT (Terry/Turley) - 1st round, 3rd round.
2. RG (Welbourn) - 2nd round, 3rd round
3. KR/PR (Webb/Sapp) - 4th round, 7th round
4. K (Carney) - 5th round, 7th round
5. FB (Wilson) - 4th round, 7th round
6. WR (Kennison) - 3rd round, 1st round
7. CB (Law) - 3rd round, 1st round
8. DT (Edwards) - 3rd round, 1st round
9. QB (Croyle) - 1st round, 1st round (Assumes a high enough pick to get a franchise guy.)
10. MLB (Harris) - 3rd round, 3rd round
11. CB (Surtain) - 4th round, 2nd round
12. C (Wiegman) - 2nd round, 2nd round
13. LT (McIntosh) - 6th round, 1st round
14. SS (Wesley/Pollard) - 6th round, 1st round
15. FS (Page) - 6th round, 1st round
16. OLB (Edwards) - 3rd round, 1st round
17. DE (Hali) - 7th round, 1st round
18. DT (Boone) - 6th round, 1st round
19. HB (Johnson) - No draft, no impact
20. TE (Gonzalez) - No draft, no impact
21. LG (Waters) - No draft, no impact
22. P (Colquitt) - No draft, no impact
WR (Bowe) - No draft, no impact
OLB (Johnson) - No draft, no impact
DE (Allen) - No draft, no impact

Brock

12-14-2007, 04:21 PM

A RT in the top of the first rd? Yeesh.

Rain Man

12-14-2007, 04:30 PM

Yeah, I know. But I actually think McIntosh can man the left side if we got a strong natural RT.

Otherwise, I'd be delighted to go with a franchise LT and move McIntosh to the right side, and it'd be all the same to me.

Skip Towne

12-14-2007, 04:35 PM

This is too hard.

Kris Kringle

12-14-2007, 04:55 PM

Draft needs, in order:

LT, CB, G, DT, WR, C, RT, RS, FB, K

Poistions that we could / should draft in the 1st round:

LT, CB, DT, WR

Poistions that we could / should draft in the 2nd round:

RT, CB, DT, WR, G, C, FB

Poistions that we could / should draft in the 3rd round:

G, DT, WR, C, RS, FB

Kris Kringle

12-14-2007, 04:58 PM

7. RT (Terry/Turley)
3. RG (Welbourn)
8. KR/PR (Webb/Sapp)
11. K (Carney)
9. FB (Wilson)
6. WR (Kennison)
2. CB (Law)
5. DT (Edwards)
25. QB (Croyle)
12. MLB (Harris)
10. CB (Surtain)
4. C (Wiegman)
1. LT (McIntosh)
13. SS (Wesley/Pollard)
15. FS (Page)
16. OLB (Edwards)
17. DE (Hali)
14. DT (Boone)
20. HB (Johnson)
19. TE (Gonzalez)
18. LG (Waters)
24. P (Colquitt)
23. WR (Bowe)
21. OLB (Johnson)
22. DE (Allen)

ottawa_chiefs_fan

12-14-2007, 05:07 PM

Charlie Brown - (staring at the sky) - "I was going to say I saw a doggie and a horsie, but I won't" - kudos to the Charles Schultz fans that get that!

JBucc

12-14-2007, 05:12 PM

1. LT 1st round
2. DT 1st round
3. CB 2nd round
4. Any other OL position 2rd round
5. MLB 2nd round
6. SS 2st round
7. WR 2nd round
8. QB 1st round only
9. K 1st round
10. FB 3rd round

Something like that.
Orange Juice!

Mecca

12-14-2007, 05:14 PM

Direckshun

12-14-2007, 05:17 PM

Rain Man, this thread is insane. Make the next one simpler.

That said, here's the Draft I'd like to see:

1. OT
2. DT
3. WR
4. CB
5. Interior OL
5. FB
6. Interior OL
6/7. K
7. Interior OL
7. DE

Kris Kringle

12-14-2007, 05:18 PM

Mecca

12-14-2007, 05:18 PM

You'd get better value going DT first and OT second...

banyon

12-14-2007, 05:25 PM

Mecca, do you have sigs turned off?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a396/Mecca2525/usc.gif

Tribal Warfare

12-14-2007, 05:26 PM

You'd get better value going DT first and OT second...

I agree

Mecca

12-14-2007, 05:29 PM

Mecca, do you have sigs turned off?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a396/Mecca2525/usc.gif

Some jack direct linked off my photobucket and made me go over bandwidth because of it. I got an email about it, my sig will be back in about 10 days.....I just don't feel like making a new account and reupping everything or taking that down.

Does that explain to you why my sig looks like that now?

Deberg_1990

12-14-2007, 05:34 PM

Ari ümlaüt

12-14-2007, 05:54 PM

all 11 picks on OL.

banyon

12-14-2007, 05:55 PM

Some jack direct linked off my photobucket and made me go over bandwidth because of it. I got an email about it, my sig will be back in about 10 days.....I just don't feel like making a new account and reupping everything or taking that down.

Does that explain to you why my sig looks like that now?

Well hurry up man. I was only reading your posts for the chicks. :p

Rain Man

12-14-2007, 06:13 PM

Rain Man, this thread is insane. Make the next one simpler.

My work is not intended for the masses. My work is intended for the elite.

ChiefsCountry

12-14-2007, 07:54 PM

Depends where we pick but I would rather see us go DT with Ellis first, then get an OT in the second or trade back up into the first round.

CoMoChief

12-14-2007, 08:01 PM

I dont like any of the QB's coming out of this draft. If we draft one in the 1st round. I won't be a Chiefs fan anymore. That would really be the last straw.

Mecca

12-14-2007, 08:13 PM

I dont like any of the QB's coming out of this draft. If we draft one in the 1st round. I won't be a Chiefs fan anymore. That would really be the last straw.

Ok explanation as to why you don't like them...

Rasputin

12-14-2007, 09:16 PM

No offense but as bad as this team is you can't be saying any position is valued more than another...this team needs any top notch player it can get...

The only position I'd be totally against is RB because those players don't last long enough to have your team being built around them to start with.

I think that it is pretty obvious that the O-line is critical to address. The receivers can't get open cus they don't have time to run proper routes and the QB gets killed cus he doesn't have but two seconds to get rid of the ball, and our running backs can't run the ball becouse there is no push or holes for the running backs to run through. Our O-line is making the rest of the team look bad. Our defense gets put right back on the field becouse of 3 & outs from the offense. The whole team is bad becouse of the O-line.

D-Macintosh is adiquate but he is not a long term ancwer & now is a good time to get a LT and so is next year for a LT and put one of those guys on the right side. We need two elite tackles one on the right and one on the left, then we need to get solid guards and a solid center.

The Franchise

12-14-2007, 09:36 PM

I'll take anything in the draft as long as it's not a HB.

Tribal Warfare

12-14-2007, 09:45 PM

Depends where we pick but I would rather see us go DT with Ellis first, then get an OT in the second or trade back up into the first round.

You're preaching to the choir :thumb:

Rasputin

12-14-2007, 10:11 PM

Depends where we pick but I would rather see us go DT with Ellis first, then get an OT in the second or trade back up into the first round.

:banghead: Ryan Simms, Jr. Siavii, Now Turk & Tank. When does the maddness stop? We don't know much more about Turk & Tank other than they must suck cus they havn't played much or made any impact to suggest that they are good for our future. It's sad that this franchise (CP) can't get us one good DT that is a beast.

I'd be all for Ellis too, but damnit this O-line is bad and Brodie or any other QB is just going to get killed. I don't want to reach for any position so if Ellis is on the board at our spot and there is a chance that a good LT is going to be at LT then it would be best to get Ellis. (I'm not sure who I like in the draft yet)

I really think that they reached big time on Turk, I think that is where the F up in the draft was. Should have gone with a guard or tackle there & picked up a DT in the 3rd. Turk or Tank would have been available in the third. However I was surprised that Tank was still there in the 3rd round. JMO.

CoMoChief

12-14-2007, 10:12 PM

1. LT, move McIntosh to RT, and for the love of God get rid of Chris Terry!!!
2. C, Weigman gets blown off the ball more than anyone on our Oline
3. RG, Welbourn sucks
4. WR, Kennison is old as shit, Parker is a 4th WR at best. Webb and Sippio either aren't playing or aren't doing shit when playing.
5. KR, stupid idea of getting rid of Dante Hall. Our KR and PR is so bad I would almost be happy if we drafted DeShaun Jackson with our first round pick.
6. CB, Law sucks and Surtain is avg at very best. Not to mention they are the one of the oldest CB tandems in the league, if not the oldest.
7. S, Pollard is slow and SUCKS in covg. Page has his moments, but I'm not sold on him yet. Maybe might wanna move him (Pollard) to LB. That's what they did to Urlacher. He's almost already big enough to play the position. He just should gain about 15 pounds.
8. LB, Donnie Edwards is gonna be replaced soon, and Nap Harris has been a bust this 2nd part of the season.
9. K, you could make the argument that this should be higher but we have so many ****in holes on this team I can't even see straight.
10. This should be number 1, Carl, Herm, Curl need to go and Solari needs to be promoted back to Oline coach and we need to re-hire Irv Eatman.

Mecca

12-14-2007, 10:13 PM

Your analogy says the Colts shouldn't have picked Peyton Manning because they didn't do so well taking George #1 some years prior to that........

Ellis projects better than any of the Olineman in this draft right now do. It's called taking the best player...or course we can just take the damn OT and build toward mediocre with some more complimentary players and no stars.

CoMoChief

12-14-2007, 10:16 PM

Mecca

12-14-2007, 10:19 PM

There are times when you take what you really need though.

You simply can not score points if you have an Oline as bad as ours.

If this team was a couple players away and had a nice core that was the base of the team, I'd agree...

THIS TEAM HAS NO CORE. This team doesn't even have 10 players that belong on a winning team. They need to find the stars to be the core before they worry about any needs.

Also how hard is it to understand this, it's been said a lot but I'll say it again. This draft has no high end elite prospect OT, but it has depth. Which means the player you can take at OT in the top of the 2nd round isn't all that different than the one at the top of the 1st round...

So why take one first when you can get an elite player like a Chris Long or Sedrick Ellis and still get an OT? Answer that for me...

CoMoChief

12-14-2007, 10:28 PM

If this team was a couple players away and had a nice core that was the base of the team, I'd agree...

THIS TEAM HAS NO CORE. This team doesn't even have 10 players that belong on a winning team. They need to find the stars to be the core before they worry about any needs.

Also how hard is it to understand this, it's been said a lot but I'll say it again. This draft has no high end elite prospect OT, but it has depth. Which means the player you can take at OT in the top of the 2nd round isn't all that different than the one at the top of the 1st round...

So why take one first when you can get an elite player like a Chris Long or Sedrick Ellis and still get an OT? Answer that for me...

Jake Long isn't an elite OT?

I would be pissed as shit if we drafted Chris Long when we have Allen and Hali. You draft someone else or trade down in that position.

You don't take the BPA when you're already stacked at that position.

Tribal Warfare

12-14-2007, 10:30 PM

Jake Long isn't an elite OT?

He's a glorified RT

Tribal Warfare

12-14-2007, 10:32 PM

I'd be all for Ellis too, but damnit this O-line is bad and Brodie or any other QB is just going to get killed.

that's why their are 7 rounds in the NFL draft

Mecca

12-14-2007, 10:34 PM

Jake Long isn't an elite OT?

I would be pissed as shit if we drafted Chris Long when we have Allen and Hali. You draft someone else or trade down in that position.

You don't take the BPA when you're already stacked at that position.

Jake Long is essentially John Tait, that's the best sort of comparison I can make for people here who everyone will be familiar with..think that's worth that high of a pick...I don't..

By the way..all Dlineman play because they rotate..your 3rd DE plays as much as the starters....

Also the difference in Chris Long and Tamba Hali is......Hali is a good player...Chris Long has the talent and potential to be a superstar player.

CoMoChief

12-14-2007, 10:35 PM

He's a glorified RT
How's that?

Mecca

12-14-2007, 10:35 PM

that's why their are 7 rounds in the NFL draft

I don't think people understand.....the drop off from the top OT to the guys in the 2nd round this year even 3rd round isn't much...

Where as at a position like DT after Dorsey and Ellis there's a huge dropoff.

Mecca

12-14-2007, 10:36 PM

How's that?

He is, you should read his reports, most think he projects out as a RT in the NFL...he'd probably be an ok LT...much like John Tait...

That's what I mean by saying there is no high end OT this year, no elite guy, there's depth which means you can do the same job taking one in the next round...

Tribal Warfare

12-14-2007, 10:37 PM

How's that?

He doesn't dominate at the point, and is good at the run blocking but is fairly average for pass blocking compared to an OT like Ogden, Pace, and Walter Jones

Mecca

12-14-2007, 10:38 PM

He doesn't dominate at the point, and is good at the run blocking but is fairly average for pass blocking compared to an OT like Ogden, Pace, and Walter Jones

And if you aren't getting a guy who is that caliber he isn't worth a top 10 pick.

CoMoChief

12-14-2007, 10:41 PM

Jake Long is essentially John Tait, that's the best sort of comparison I can make for people here who everyone will be familiar with..think that's worth that high of a pick...I don't..

By the way..all Dlineman play because they rotate..your 3rd DE plays as much as the starters....

Also the difference in Chris Long and Tamba Hali is......Hali is a good player...Chris Long has the talent and potential to be a superstar player.
That's not true. I think people are getting into the hype of what his dad once was and what he could be because of that. Is he good? Yeah he is, but I'd rather stick with what we have and trade down since we have more holes on this team that we need to fill.

Mecca

12-14-2007, 10:44 PM

Also Long can play inside or outside.......there's a huge difference in Long and Hali. Long is better right now, you need to see him play. I don't base shit off his dad and the guy is awesome.

You don't handcuff yourself because of Tamba Hali and say you can't take a guy. And like I said with the way they rotate now they'd all play just as much.

Remember the Dline is just as important as the Oline is to being a good team...and this is a year with elite Dlineman and no elite Olineman so you go Dline first Oline 2nd...

But hey that makes to much sense.

Tribal Warfare

12-14-2007, 10:45 PM

I'd rather stick with what we have and trade down since we have more holes on this team that we need to fill.

The mentality of Carl Peterson, get a stopgap for a position and move on.

Mecca

12-14-2007, 10:46 PM

The mentality of Carl Peterson, get a stopgap for a position and move on.

NO ELITE PLAYERS! Let's trade down, we don't need any stars to accomplish my plan of being an average team that just competes!

Simplex3

12-14-2007, 10:58 PM

1. Yes

CoMoChief

12-14-2007, 11:06 PM

The mentality of Carl Peterson, get a stopgap for a position and move on.
I never said anything about a stopgap.

Mecca

12-14-2007, 11:08 PM

I never said anything about a stopgap.

What you are wanting the team to do is essentially a stop gap...You are on Carl's page more than you realize.

Rasputin

12-14-2007, 11:09 PM

that's why their are 7 rounds in the NFL draft

& we have 10 picks this year, but the extra picks are a 5th and two 7th. Not really that big of a deal unless we get greater value for them if we traded up in the draft. How much value does a 5th and two 7 rounders do for us to move up in the draft?

I want quality players not quantity to fill the needs. Yea we get 3 extra picks but they are late second day picks and we can't expect to strike gold on those picks can we? I don't think so, maybe a WR that can return kickoffs or a ST stand out.

It's good to have the extra picks even though they are late rounds hopefully they can package a deal together to move up in the draft and get a good value player.

Mecca

12-14-2007, 11:11 PM

& we have 10 picks this year, but the extra picks are a 5th and two 7th. Not really that big of a deal unless we get greater value for them if we traded up in the draft. How much value does a 5th and two 7 rounders do for us to move up in the draft?

I want quality players not quantity to fill the needs. Yea we get 3 extra picks but they are late second day picks and we can't expect to strike gold on those picks can we? I don't think so, maybe a WR that can return kickoffs or a ST stand out.

It's good to have the extra picks even though they are late rounds hopefully they can package a deal together to move up in the draft and get a good value player.

His comment is in regards to people who want Olinemen when it won't be the best thing available with our first pick......it's you know there are 6 more rounds to make picks...

Rasputin

12-14-2007, 11:34 PM

His comment is in regards to people who want Olinemen when it won't be the best thing available with our first pick......it's you know there are 6 more rounds to make picks...

I do agree. We have 10 picks to fill most of our needs. It sounds like Ellis would be awesome to get for our first pick too. Of course we wouldn't need an elite DT if only we picked Henderson instead of Simms. We've been burned very badly by CPs DTs picks with Simms and
Jr. Siavii. That in a nut shell is another reason why we have sucked so bad on defense.

'Hamas' Jenkins

12-15-2007, 12:16 AM

You pick the BPA in the first round, and you do so off of draft grades.

If Ellis projects as a 96, and Long a 91, you take Ellis, and you don't debate it. You can then spend picks in rounds 2 and 3 on the Tackles who have grades for the area around where you are picking. Can we get a badass LT this year? Probably not. But we could still improve 3/5 spots on the line in the 2nd-5th rounds if we get good value there.

Brock

12-15-2007, 09:11 AM