View Full Version : I smell a Rat...
KCJohnny
12-21-2007, 01:20 AM
How is it we obtain the Vikings Cover 2 MLB and wind up 26th in rushing defense while the Nap Harris-less Vikes end up #1 against the rush (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=0015&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find)in the NFL????
What is going on here?
Should KC consider a true game-breaking MLB in the draft or FA? Wasn't Harris supposed to better than Kawika Mitchell? (Giants ranked 12th in NFL in rushing yards allowed).
There is clearly something wrong with this picture, and it may be the Tampa 2 scheme...
Hammock Parties
12-21-2007, 01:22 AM
The Vikings ran Cover 2 last year. They had a great run defense, too, #1 if I'm not mistaken.
It was because of their defensive tackles.
Nothing wrong with the scheme.
when we were 4-4 I believe our defense was doing pretty good, it could be that the players may have given up to a certain extent. The defense is on the field most of our games afterall with our dismal predictable offense.
KCJohnny
12-21-2007, 01:26 AM
The Vikings ran Cover 2 last year. They had a great run defense, too, #1 if I'm not mistaken.
It was because of their defensive tackles.
Nothing wrong with the scheme.
Sorry, no way in heck we import Harris from Minny and wind up #26 in rushing defense and they wind up #1. Something is wrong here, especially with Kawika playing for the league's #12 rushing defense.
Think about it.
We need DT's, then our MLB no matter how much worse than Harris is, will look so much better.
Hammock Parties
12-21-2007, 01:36 AM
Sorry, no way in heck we import Harris from Minny and wind up #26 in rushing defense and they wind up #1. Something is wrong here, especially with Kawika playing for the league's #12 rushing defense.
Think about it.
No, it's pretty simple. They have a dominant pair of defensive tackles. We don't.
Harris being utter crap doesn't help.
KCJohnny
12-21-2007, 01:44 AM
No, it's pretty simple. They have a dominant pair of defensive tackles. We don't.
Harris being utter crap doesn't help.
Uh, right....
Their DTs account for us beig #26 in rushing Defense and Minny being #1 AFTER we obtain their MLB...
...sorry, not buying that rationalization....
Hammock Parties
12-21-2007, 01:45 AM
Uh, right....
Their DTs account for us beig #26 in rushing Defense and Minny being #1 AFTER we obtain their MLB...
...sorry, not buying that rationalization....
It's the truth. Minnesota has the best defensive tackle tandem in the entire national football league.
Ours are average at best. And Harris is a piece of shit. Combine all of that with an offense that can't stay on the field and you get a bad run defense.
Isn't someone forgetting the #32 pass D? Perhaps they had numbers that were just a big skewed?
Phobia
12-21-2007, 01:51 AM
Uh, right....
Their DTs account for us beig #26 in rushing Defense and Minny being #1 AFTER we obtain their MLB...
...sorry, not buying that rationalization....The DTs are the foundation of a defense. You should know that. If the interior frontmen suck, then Lanier, Lynch, and Bell wouldn't even help.
The DTs are our main problem, as Mr. GoChiefs has mentioned, Mr. KCJohnny.
That and the fact that enemy offenses keep running the football. We'd be a lot better if they'd just knock that stuff off.
FAX
J Diddy
12-21-2007, 01:58 AM
The DTs are our main problem, as Mr. GoChiefs has mentioned, Mr. KCJohnny.
That and the fact that enemy offenses keep running the football. We'd be a lot better if they'd just knock that stuff off.
FAX
for real cheating bastages
Chiefs_5627
12-21-2007, 02:01 AM
Uh, right....
Their DTs account for us beig #26 in rushing Defense and Minny being #1 AFTER we obtain their MLB...
...sorry, not buying that rationalization....
:shake:
Smed1065
12-21-2007, 02:09 AM
I will repeat but the same thing said for years.....it starts in the trenches.
Now maybe the other half will believe it?
I hope the Chiefs finally do.
Both side of the line!
Honestly. No push equals no yards.
Both sides!
Chiefmanwillcatch
12-21-2007, 02:11 AM
It's the Dline but Nap isn't the greatest.
J Diddy
12-21-2007, 02:17 AM
I will repeat but the same thing said for years.....it starts in the trenches.
Now maybe the other half will believe it?
I hope the Chiefs finally do.
Both side of the line!
Honestly. No push equals no yards.
Both sides!
so if the d line gets no push
they will stop them for no gain
DaKCMan AP
12-21-2007, 06:39 AM
:doh!:
Bob Dole
12-21-2007, 06:47 AM
when we were 4-4 I believe our defense was doing pretty good, it could be that the players may have given up to a certain extent. The defense is on the field most of our games afterall with our dismal predictable offense.
Actually, the defense is on the field, on average, 30:01 per game.
the Talking Can
12-21-2007, 07:06 AM
we've needed a real MLB forever...and a real DT too...
I don't think much of Harris, but we can live with him for another year while rebuilding....
Simplex3
12-21-2007, 07:10 AM
Nothing wrong with the scheme.
Errr...
We are kind of late to the party.
Otter
12-21-2007, 07:49 AM
It's the Dline but Nap isn't the greatest.
Exactly. When was he ever that great? He's certainly no better than Kawaka Mitchell who already knew the defense.
Iowanian
12-21-2007, 07:59 AM
Another consideration is they had an extra boost this year, from last year's first round pick, Chad Greenway, who was injured very early on and played well this year. They've increased their athletic LB corps behind a very solid Dline, which also has some high picks, and a solid secondary.
Sounds simple, huh.
Their offense is pretty bad, even with a great RB.
CupidStunt
12-21-2007, 08:04 AM
WTF is going on here?
The DTs are awful, Harris is awful and the cover-two doesn't lend itself to stopping the run anyway. We will suck against it next year, too, if nothing--or not enough--changes.
Dave Lane
12-21-2007, 08:05 AM
It's the truth. Minnesota has the best defensive tackle tandem in the entire national football league.
Ours are average at best. And Harris is a piece of shit. Combine all of that with an offense that can't stay on the field and you get a bad run defense.
No no no not true Herm has a great eye for defense talent in the draft and is a virtually drafting god.
Dave
Iowanian
12-21-2007, 08:07 AM
Boone is not aweful. He's played pretty solid and I think Edwards did the first half of the season.
I think they've worn down from being on the field so much for a few reasons.....one being that the offense was soo effing horrible and had sooo many 3 and outs. These guys played a lot of snaps this season.
While I think the Chiefs need another starting DT to replace Edwards, I think they need to get more out of Tank, and replace REED with a DT that can actually dress/contribute.
Dave Lane
12-21-2007, 08:08 AM
Errr...
We are kind of late to the party.
Not Herm. Actually he's so innovative that he actually is playing the cover 2 defense that will be all the rage again in 2012. See thats the ticket he's way out in front not lagging way behind.
Dave
Dave Lane
12-21-2007, 08:10 AM
Clayton,
Do you have season long time of possession stats? I'm curious with the excuse that the D is on the field all the time what the mix is.
Dave
Exactly. When was he ever that great? He's certainly no better than Kawaka Mitchell who already knew the defense.
What are you talking about? He's been "great" for 3 teams already! Just like Herm's been "great" for two. :rolleyes:
Pushead2
12-21-2007, 08:45 AM
I just want to switch to a 3-4 already. I hate the tampa 2 / cover 2 scheme.
dirk digler
12-21-2007, 09:03 AM
As many mentioned here they have a pair of dominating DT's plus EJ Henderson is a run stopping MLB unlike Harris.
Bob Dole
12-21-2007, 09:07 AM
Clayton,
Do you have season long time of possession stats? I'm curious with the excuse that the D is on the field all the time what the mix is.
Dave
Bob Dole already posted it. Our O ToP is 29:59. Defense is on the field 30:01 per game.
Dave Lane
12-21-2007, 09:17 AM
Holy crap well no wonder the D is wore out :) I mean thats a LOT of extra time on the field... Jeez
Dave
smittysbar
12-21-2007, 09:20 AM
Bob Dole already posted it. Our O ToP is 29:59. Defense is on the field 30:01 per game.
Funny that Herm thought DV scored to fast and put the D in bad position.
Yet we were top of the league most years in TOP. No wonder they are getting shredded.
carlos3652
12-21-2007, 10:35 AM
Funny that Herm thought DV scored to fast and put the D in bad position.
Yet we were top of the league most years in TOP. No wonder they are getting shredded.
We were first in TOP because the D couldnt stop anyone... it took them very little time to score against us...
smittysbar
12-21-2007, 10:40 AM
We were first in TOP because the D couldnt stop anyone... it took them very little time to score against us...
Maybe some of it. But we had long scoring drives all the time. Priest and Larry had a lot of carries, we were not the high flying team he makes it out to be.
carlos3652
12-21-2007, 10:40 AM
And this years TOP can be very decieving... We ran the shite out of the ball, and we killed tons of time doing nothing on offense... just because we ran it 3 times on a 3 and out and used 2 min of the clock...
smittysbar
12-21-2007, 10:43 AM
And this years TOP can be very decieving... We ran the shite out of the ball, and we killed tons of time doing nothing on offense... just because we ran it 3 times on a 3 and out and used 2 min of the clock...
Field position is as good as a score.........it will be OOOOOOOKKKKKKKK
Get Over It :p
beer bacon
12-21-2007, 11:25 AM
Isn't someone forgetting the #32 pass D? Perhaps they had numbers that were just a big skewed?
Yeah, their pass defense is skewed because their rush defense is so good. If you look beyond total pass defense (passing yards given up), Minnesota has a good pass defense. Their only problem on pass defense is that they can never seem to find very good edge rushers.
CHENZ A!
12-21-2007, 08:51 PM
I just want to switch to a 3-4 already. I hate the tampa 2 / cover 2 scheme.
me too
Hammock Parties
12-21-2007, 08:54 PM
There's nothing inherently wrong with the Cover 2. Indianapolis and Chicago were both in the SUPER BOWL last year and ran Cover 2.
Changing to a 3-4 would require massive dumping of personnel on the front 7. Neither Allen nor Hali would work in such a scheme. I doubt Derrick Johnson would either. You 3-4 folks are brain surgeons.
Bob Dole already posted it. Our O ToP is 29:59. Defense is on the field 30:01 per game.
And when the offense is on the field does that not mean we are controlling the ball?
CHENZ A!
12-21-2007, 09:06 PM
There's nothing inherently wrong with the Cover 2. Indianapolis and Chicago were both in the SUPER BOWL last year and ran Cover 2.
Changing to a 3-4 would require massive dumping of personnel on the front 7. Neither Allen nor Hali would work in such a scheme. I doubt Derrick Johnson would either. You 3-4 folks are brain surgeons.
Well, I'm all for massive dumping of personnel because most of them suck ass. If we are going to change, now would seem like as good a time as any.
chagrin
12-21-2007, 09:48 PM
Sorry, no way in heck we import Harris from Minny and wind up #26 in rushing defense and they wind up #1.
Weren't they also #1 last season, if not in the top 3?
BigChiefFan
12-21-2007, 10:09 PM
I think we should run the 4-3 and dump this cover two crap. We should play more man coverage. That being said, our team is a sieve, no way they improve the team in one off-season, especially with Carl calling the shots. We need players at every position on the field.
KCJohnny
12-21-2007, 10:15 PM
The DTs are the foundation of a defense. You should know that. If the interior frontmen suck, then Lanier, Lynch, and Bell wouldn't even help.
Blasphemy! Lanier, Lynch and Bell could keep offenses in check with our grandmas at DT (as long as Buck Buchannon and Jerry Mays were still at DE...).
KCJ
:arrow:
KCJohnny
12-21-2007, 10:27 PM
Bob Dole already posted it. Our O ToP is 29:59. Defense is on the field 30:01 per game.
Well senator, not sure anyone keeps stats on these sort of things, but our defense has endured some dreadfully long drives this year. Sure, total TOP balances, but ours are accumulated mostly through 3-and-outs (we lead the NFL in this embarrassing category) with 2-3 rushes followed by a punt, while opposing Os crank out 5-6 minutes drives routinely. Isn't that the "beauty" (not my word) of Cover 2? Give up loads of yards between the 20s and stiffen in the RZ?
As a former player (long time ago) it wasn't 3-and-outs that wore a defense down, but long slow drives where the opponent punished us with rushing plays.
Well, up til 3 weeks ago, it was working. We had the NFL's stingiest goal-to-go offense and ranked in the top 5 in RZ scoring. The past 3 games, this defense is allowing 30.3 ppg. 30.3!!!! That's more than the 2002 Chiefs.
'Hamas' Jenkins
12-21-2007, 11:10 PM
Jesus Christ, Johnny is a f*cking retard.
Remember Alvin Harper? Notice how the Cowboys offense didn't drop off one iota after he left to go to Tampa Bay after they won their first SB?
Yeah, it must have been something other than the fact that the Cowboys had Aikman, Irvin, Emmitt, Novacek, Johnston, Williams, Newton, etc. all on their offense.
It must have been something to do with Tampa's offense.
F*cking idiot :shake:
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