Any thoughts on Drafting Brohm QB Louisville [Archive]

cardken

12-22-2007, 05:44 AM

Having played with Kolby Smith in Louisville, familiarity is a good thing. Trade away LJ to Miami for top picks, LJ has lost favor with the Fans and the Team, we should trade while still has market value. Miami needs offense especially at RB to take pressure off passing game. Plus if Trent Green is to stick around another year or two they have a history. Brody Croyle is a victim of time, we can't wait to "see what happens", IMO opinion, if your "QB of the future" can't beat out a career Back-up, he's not your man. Draft Jake Long OT Michigan or Ryan Clady OT Boise State along with Brohm in First Round. 2nd Round, 2 picks, first pick Barry Richardson OT, Clemson , and second pick 2nd Round Lawrence Jackson, DE, USC. With Jared Allen future up in the air, this pick is a good insurance policy.Third Round Dwight Lowry CB, San Jose State, with Law "gone" and Surtain aging we need to reload.Some URFA moves could be WR Bryan Johnson ARI, or Justin Gage WR TEN, as a compliment to Bowe,this needs to improve as strongly as the OL if we are to compete.Also Travis Henry RB STL to back up Kolby. The franchise is in Rebuilding mode this first needs to be excepted and embraced with bold moves. :arrow:

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 05:49 AM

OMG! People should really think before they type. Explain to me what good it does to draft a QB like this, if we cannot protect him? Stupid.

cardken

12-22-2007, 06:00 AM

OMG! People should really think before they type. Explain to me what good it does to draft a QB like this, if we cannot protect him? Stupid.
Read before you comment, a closed mind is a stupid one.

007

12-22-2007, 06:01 AM

Why do people think that LJ is tradeable after signing that contract just 4 months ago. Nobody is going to take on that contract and Carl is not about to eat the cap hit on it. Stop bringing it up.

cardken

12-22-2007, 06:04 AM

Why do people think that LJ is tradeable after signing that contract just 4 months ago. Nobody is going to take on that contract and Carl is not about to eat the cap hit on it. Stop bringing it up.
Can't/Won't never did Anything.

007

12-22-2007, 06:11 AM

Can't/Won't never did Anything.
Gee, you just defined Carl's last 10 years.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 06:13 AM

Read before you comment, a closed mind is a stupid one.I didn't read any of it because I knew it would be tripe. Dude, this team is SO bad. We have needs everywhere, save a few positions. Drafting LJ is NOT an option. I wish we would have done that before the draft last year. Not possible now.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 06:13 AM

Gee, you just defined Carl's last 10 years.LMAO

007

12-22-2007, 06:14 AM

I didn't read any of it because I knew it would be tripe. Dude, this team is SO bad. We have needs everywhere, save a few positions. Drafting LJ is NOT an option. I wish we would have done that before the draft last year. Not possible now.
You meant "trading LJ" right? :)

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 06:25 AM

You meant "trading LJ" right? :)
:D Oops...

LOCOChief

12-22-2007, 06:32 AM

We haven't seen Croyle yet. He needs more time (in may ways). and it's obcious to me than many around here never saw him play a snap in college or they wouldn't keep talkin about ****ing Brohm. LT,RG, C, CB and we turn the corner IMO

DenverChief

12-22-2007, 06:57 AM

WOW :shake:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RBj8J9qkh6U&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RBj8J9qkh6U&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

DenverChief

12-22-2007, 07:08 AM

a closed mind is a stupid one.
maybe you should be more openminded about Croyle?

chagrin

12-22-2007, 07:15 AM

Plus if Trent Green is to stick around another year or two they have a history.

Are you aware that Trent is never going to play football again?

As for the rest of it, I am not interested in drafting another QB ealry this year; especially not interested in Brohm.

Sully

12-22-2007, 07:45 AM

A) LJ is untradeable.
B) Miami already has a good back, one of the few positions where they have a player.
C) I'm no scout, but my impression is that Brohm isn't any better than Croyle.

chagrin

12-22-2007, 07:47 AM

A) LJ is untradeable.
B) Miami already has a good back, one of the few positions where they have a player.
C) I'm no scout, but my impression is that Brohm isn't any better than Croyle.

Hey, Merry Christmas Sully

Sully

12-22-2007, 07:48 AM

Hey, Merry Christmas Sully
Merry Christmas to you.
You doin' alright?

chagrin

12-22-2007, 07:57 AM

Merry Christmas to you.
You doin' alright?

Oh yeah - I've been blessed - work and life are doing better than ever :)

stonedstooge

12-22-2007, 07:58 AM

Chase Daniels scrambles well. Bring him in as a backup to Brodie ane within two years you've got yourself a top notch quarterbace> And bring Coffman or Rucker in as tight ends to replace Jason Dunn and were back in bidness.

banyon

12-22-2007, 09:00 AM

I think Travis Henry plays for Denver.

blueballs

12-22-2007, 09:01 AM

I stuck a toliet paper tube up your mom's butt
and saw that you favor your mother

KCFalcon59

12-22-2007, 09:12 AM

Let me think.........NO!!

Ultra Peanut

12-22-2007, 09:17 AM

We should just become the Kansas City Cardinals, to help Kolby become comfortable!

talastan

12-22-2007, 09:58 AM

http://marisbush.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/7e0f2ee4-1cac-4b0e-9879-e9c9dc5bc83c.thumbnail.jpg

Rasputin

12-22-2007, 10:22 AM

Brodie is a victom of piss poor blocking & dumbassery coaching.

Why do people bring up preseason? Brodie had no chance in hell to win the starters job with Svitek at LT blocking Will Smith. He had TWO seconds to get rid of the ball, meenwhile on the other side Drew Breez had Five seconds and he picked our defense apart.

I am a true believer that you have to have BLOCKING on the front lines for a team to be succesffull and it it doesn't matter if it's Tom Brady back there.

This team was bad before Brodie started. The problem is the O-Line and it is going to take some time and good draft picks for it to get better.

Brodie is going to have this offseason to work on his progressions, he is going to study film & improve too. The best part is he is going to be working with D Bowe and their timing.

Brodie started his career on a bad football team, so did Peyton Manning and Troy Akman and a bunch of other QBs that had a rough first year. You gotta give him a learning curve do to this offensive line.

GO BRODIE!!!! :arrow:

HolmeZz

12-22-2007, 10:26 AM

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 11:10 AM

Brohm is a system QB, just like Colt Brennan.

Andre' Woodson should be who we focus on, and if he's available we should draft him.

banyon

12-22-2007, 11:16 AM

Brohm is a system QB, just like Colt Brennan.

Andre' Woodson should be who we focus on, and if he's available we should draft him.

Right on all counts.

also: Dave Ragone, Stefan LeFlors, Chris Redman.

HolmeZz

12-22-2007, 11:23 AM

I don't care for Brohm, but he's not a system quarterback.

smittysbar

12-22-2007, 11:35 AM

Trade LJ and eat his signing bonus. Brilliant, why hasn't someone thought of this.............

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 11:45 AM

Andre' Woodson should be who we focus on, and if he's available we should draft him.
:shake:

Chieficus

12-22-2007, 11:46 AM

Trade LJ and eat his signing bonus. Brilliant, why hasn't someone thought of this.............

Oh come on, that's the real reason Carl has been saving up all this cap space: he knew that he was going to sign LJ to a big contract and then trade him the next year (as well as Tony G, to throw some other threads in here)... Think of how many QBOTF's we can draft with all those picks... get Brohm, Ryan, and Woodson--surely we'd hit with one of them.

It's an amazing plan, I tell ya'...

:jester:

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 11:50 AM

:shake:

Care to provide a rebuttal? I'm all ears.

smittysbar

12-22-2007, 11:51 AM

Oh come on, that's the real reason Carl has been saving up all this cap space: he knew that he was going to sign LJ to a big contract and then trade him the next year (as well as Tony G, to throw some other threads in here)... Think of how many QBOTF's we can draft with all those picks... get Brohm, Ryan, and Woodson--surely we'd hit with one of them.

It's an amazing plan, I tell ya'...

:jester:

Ain't it. ROFL

RP_McMurphy

12-22-2007, 12:02 PM

Here's your problem with LJ.......keep him and not eat the bonus money and your stuck with a bad team player (as a Jaguars fan that's what I see) who will be more injury prone as he gets older. Trade him and you lose major CAP room to sign FA
's and rookies. All in all this was mismanged by a certain GM who didn't plan for the future and went by a year to year plan.

Manila-Chief

12-22-2007, 12:22 PM

Having played with Kolby Smith in Louisville, familiarity is a good thing. Trade away LJ to Miami for top picks, LJ has lost favor with the Fans and the Team, we should trade while still has market value. Miami needs offense especially at RB to take pressure off passing game.

If Miami needs a RB (which I think they don't), why would they trade multi-picks for LJ when they could just draft the kid from Arkansas? As someone said ... I'm no scout but it seems to me that he will be a much better back than LJ, and he is younger, and he has not been injured??? Besides, Miami is in worse shape than we are and needs all their picks. So, this thread is just wishful thinking.

We have multi-needs, so I'm not in favor of drafting any QB ... too many failures out of "can't miss" QB prospects. You know the list. I hope Croyle is our QBOTF ... we'll have to get a new coach who knows how to develop young QB's for that to happen ... but, if Croyle is a bust, I rather use the draft to build the team and find a QB later.

kcfanXIII

12-22-2007, 12:37 PM

Having played with Kolby Smith in Louisville, familiarity is a good thing. Trade away LJ to Miami for top picks, LJ has lost favor with the Fans and the Team, we should trade while still has market value.

as far as i got. LJ HAS NO MARKET VALUE....

why can't you dimwits figure this out. he's over paid, he's a whiny bitch, and underperformed. we'd be lucky to get a 4th or 5th out of him, and we'd have to eat his salary. no, a trade was only possible BEFORE the new contract.

bowener

12-22-2007, 01:53 PM

Chase isn't an NFL quarterback. He's about 5'9".

6' 1/4" tall, granted that is still "too short"... though he is as tall as Drew Breez.

Brock

12-22-2007, 02:01 PM

Brodie started his career on a bad football team, so did Peyton Manning and Troy Akman and a bunch of other QBs that had a rough first year. You gotta give him a learning curve do to this offensive line.

GO BRODIE!!!! :arrow:

Again, I like Brodie, but wake up. People keep making the comparison to Manning and Aikman, and it's pretty much the silliest comparison one could make. In all likelihood, he won't be the franchise QB we all want him to be.

FloridaMan88

12-22-2007, 02:10 PM

as far as i got. LJ HAS NO MARKET VALUE....

why can't you dimwits figure this out. he's over paid, he's a whiny bitch, and underperformed. we'd be lucky to get a 4th or 5th out of him, and we'd have to eat his salary. no, a trade was only possible BEFORE the new contract.

Not to mention, most smart GMs realize the historical trends associated with RBs coming off of 400+ carries seasons which is they are never the same RB. This year is just a preview of what the rest of LJ's career will be like. Injury-prone, not the same burst, mediocre yards per carry average. Herm last year, in his stubborn attempt to be a run-oriented offense without any real passing game ran LJ into the ground and essentially ended his career.

Herm destroyed Curtis Martin and now Herm has destroyed LJ.

Rasputin

12-22-2007, 02:20 PM

Again, I like Brodie, but wake up. People keep making the comparison to Manning and Aikman, and it's pretty much the silliest comparison one could make. In all likelihood, he won't be the franchise QB we all want him to be.

I'm just saying he is starting his career on a bad team like those guys not that he is going to have the same kind of career, but give him a chance and a good Offensive line so he can be successfull.

He is the first QB from the draft that we've had in two FN decades that has a chance to be a good one. I am hoping for the best & wish him all of luck. Croyle is the only QB from the draft under the Carl Peterson Era to get a shot at being our future QB. Finallly and yet this O-line sucks so that makes him look bad. Croyle has all the stuff to be a great QB imo. He needs help from the team thus this is a TEAM effort.

Brodie needs a chance to grow with this team like other QBs have done. Can't just give up on him becouse he is on a bad football team. Why can't we compare him to those guys, their organizaion didn't give up on them when they struggled their first few years. How manny QBs were that good in their first years playing. Ben Rothleshamberger was, but he had a good coach and a running game and was put in position for success, he did not have to carry the team by himself.

Seems like Chiefs fans expect Brodie to just pick up this team and start winning games regardless of how bad this team is. This is a BAD football team nomatter who the QB would be. Getting a new QB next year does not solve the problems of the O-line or the laxidazy Defense.

Bowser

12-22-2007, 02:28 PM

FAX

12-22-2007, 02:34 PM

Christ, he looks like a whole other player. Amazing what an actual offensive line can do for you.

It's funny, Mr. Bowser. People think he's a bag of ass, but the guy can flat out play the position. I'm fairly positive that Herm will clip his wings, though.

FAX

Chiefs Pantalones

12-22-2007, 02:34 PM

RustShack

12-22-2007, 02:38 PM

Croyle looked pretty good in college, he also had a bad line in college. This one is way worse though, it needs upgraded a lot before we think about another QB.

FAX

12-22-2007, 02:40 PM

I agree with Brock.

When you have the chance to draft a franchise QB, you do it. We will have the chance to do that this year. Although our scouts are so ****ed up with their judgements, they will rate the QBs way down the board lol

This raises an interesting question in my mind, Mr. Vanilla Thunder.

First off, I am not comparing Croyle to Manning. I repeat, I am NOT comparing Croyle to Manning. But, if the BAA in the draft at the point Indy picks was a QB, do you think they would go with him?

FAX

HolmeZz

12-22-2007, 02:42 PM

6' 1/4" tall, granted that is still "too short"... though he is as tall as Drew Breez.

Chase isn't that tall. I think he's listed at 5'11" in the MU media guide, which means you can knock another inch of two off of that. He's tiny.

DaneMcCloud

12-22-2007, 02:55 PM

You lost me at "Trade LJ for top picks". An $18 million dollar cap hit would devastate an already talent-depleted team.

Bill Parcells has made a living out of finding very good running backs in the later rounds (Curtis Martin was a 3rd rounder, Marion Barber was a 4th, etc.). He's not going to trade a "top pick" for a soon-to-be 28 year-old player coming off an injury year in which he played in only 8 games.

Secondly, I wouldn't set my heart on ANY QB (or any position for that matter) until after the Senior Bowl, East-West game and the Combines.

alanm

12-22-2007, 03:31 PM

6' 1/4" tall, granted that is still "too short"... though he is as tall as Drew Breez.
I like Daniel but the fact remains is that he runs a offense at Missouri that doesn't translate well to the NFL. If Pinkle has him under center more next year and incorporates more of a Pro style offense who knows.

DaneMcCloud

12-22-2007, 03:51 PM

I like Daniel but the fact remains is that he runs a offense at Missouri that doesn't translate well to the NFL. If Pinkle has him under center more next year and incorporates more of a Pro style offense who knows.

Everyone outside of Columbia says he's 5'9. There's no way he'll play quarterback in the NFL.

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 04:05 PM

Everyone outside of Columbia says he's 5'9. There's no way he'll play quarterback in the NFL.

Yeah, I'll definitely take that bet.

No way he's a 1st rounder or probably even a 1st day player, but he'll definitely get drafted as a QB unless he wets the bed next season.

OnTheWarpath15

12-22-2007, 04:12 PM

Any thoughts on Drafting Brohm QB Louisville?

Yeah, here's a thought on drafting Brohm:

Don't.

Bowser

12-22-2007, 04:13 PM

Everyone outside of Columbia says he's 5'9. There's no way he'll play quarterback in the NFL.

I bet he does. I'd be willing to say he makes a roster as a QB. He may not ever crack a starting lineup, but I'd bet he makes it.

Pablo

12-22-2007, 05:01 PM

Don't.

If anyone has watched Brohm, Ryan, or Woodson and believes their upside is better than Brodie's I'd have to say you're blind.

I've watched all three and I've been most impressed with Woodson, but he didn't impress me that much. Not a franchise QB, not a problem solver for this team.

Oh, and Chase Daniel is too short and pudgy too ever be a NFL-caliber starting QB. He might make a great 3rd stringer for somebody, but that's about it.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 05:08 PM

Again, I like Brodie, but wake up. People keep making the comparison to Manning and Aikman, and it's pretty much the silliest comparison one could make. In all likelihood, he won't be the franchise QB we all want him to be.Why is it silly? No one had a clue Aikman or Manning would be HOF QBs. Please explain why one cannot make comparisons to these QBs. Hell, many thought Leaf would be better than Manning. Fact is, no one knows. What we do know now, is he is not playing terrible behind a poor line and shotty offensive coaching. What that holds for the future is anyone's guess.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 05:10 PM

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 05:11 PM

I agree with Brock.

When you have the chance to draft a franchise QB, you do it. We will have the chance to do that this year. Although our scouts are so ****ed up with their judgements, they will rate the QBs way down the board lolThis is funny to me. Some don't think Brodie is a franchise QB, yet we are gonna draft someone we ALSO have no clue about. WTF?

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 05:18 PM

Why is it silly? No one had a clue Aikman or Manning would be HOF QBs. Please explain why one cannot make comparisons to these QBs. Hell, many thought Leaf would be better than Manning. Fact is, no one knows. What we do know now, is he is not playing terrible behind a poor line and shotty offensive coaching. What that holds for the future is anyone's guess.

Are you serious? Manning and Aikman were both drafted #1 OVERALL for a reason.

Croyle was a 3rd rounder, and some even thought that might be too high for him. He has a good arm, but he's frail, has a long track record of injuries, and has never shown that he's capable of being an elite QB.

Pablo

12-22-2007, 05:23 PM

None of these QB's in this draft have ever been considered number 1 picks this entire season.

They aren't great QB's. They are simply the best out of a very average class.

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 05:29 PM

None of these QB's in this draft have ever been considered number 1 picks this entire season.

They aren't great QB's. They are simply the best out of a very average class.

Brohm was considered a potential #1 overall pick until Louisville sucked it up early on this season.

Anyways, we should be comparing them to what we already have; all three are more highly-regarded than Croyle was coming out of school.

Personally I'm a huge fan of Woodson. The kid is huge and has a cannon for an arm. Our poor Oline would not hurt him too much considering his size, as he was the SEC's leading passer despite having the worst Oline in the conference. Also had one of the best TD/Int ratios in the country.

DaneMcCloud

12-22-2007, 05:31 PM

Yeah, I'll definitely take that bet.

No way he's a 1st rounder or probably even a 1st day player, but he'll definitely get drafted as a QB unless he wets the bed next season.

I bet he does. I'd be willing to say he makes a roster as a QB. He may not ever crack a starting lineup, but I'd bet he makes it.

Mark it, Bruthas!

The last time that a short QB had any success in the NFL was Flutie and he was 5'10 (true 5'10).

How's a 5'9 QB going to see over 6'5 lineman?

Pablo

12-22-2007, 05:37 PM

Brohm was considered a potential #1 overall pick until Louisville sucked it up early on this season.

Anyways, we should be comparing them to what we already have; all three are more highly-regarded than Croyle was coming out of school.

Personally I'm a huge fan of Woodson. The kid is huge and has a cannon for an arm. Our poor Oline would not hurt him too much considering his size, as he was the SEC's leading passer despite having the worst Oline in the conference. Also had one of the best TD/Int ratios in the country.Do you really think bringing another young QB in here is the answer?

Brodie has started 5 games now and Chiefs fans are crying for someone new. This offensive line, system, and coaching staff are not QB-friendly. I am not in favor of gambling away our first round pick on a QB, when the one we have is young, and has had very respectable games and numbers behind the worst line I have ever watched.

Chiefs_5627

12-22-2007, 05:37 PM

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 05:40 PM

Mark it, Bruthas!

The last time that a short QB had any success in the NFL was Flutie and he was 5'10 (true 5'10).

How's a 5'9 QB going to see over 6'5 lineman?

LOL, so Chase Daniel is listed at 6'0" and is really 5'9", but Drew Brees (6'0"), Jeff Garcia (6'1"), Troy Smith (5'11") and Rex Grossman (6'1") are all exactly their listed height, right? Heh.

Daniel is really 5'10", just like the rest of the guys I listed. Everyone inflates their height by a couple inches.

Pablo

12-22-2007, 05:40 PM

Instant gratification isn't attainable with this offensive system.

If Adrian Peterson ran behind our line, this season, he might not even break 1,000 yards.

No QB in this draft has the ability to come right out of college and start, and be even moderately successful. Carson Palmer isn't on the board, Manning isn't on the board. Just a bunch of slightly above-average QB's.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 06:36 PM

Bottom line, drafting a QB in the 1st is just dumb. We saw what Trent was able to do behind the line he had.

blueballs

12-22-2007, 06:40 PM

Detriot is like a second home to the French

Mecca

12-22-2007, 06:57 PM

None of these QB's in this draft have ever been considered number 1 picks this entire season.

They aren't great QB's. They are simply the best out of a very average class.

Eh, I think Matt Ryan and Brian Brohm would have been high rated in any year....

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 06:59 PM

Bottom line, drafting a QB in the 1st is just dumb. We saw what Trent was able to do behind the line he had.

So if we give Brodie two HOF linemen and two more that are perennial Pro Bowlers, he'll be able to do okay? Good to know!

BigChiefFan

12-22-2007, 07:13 PM

Bottom line, drafting a QB in the 1st is just dumb. We saw what Trent was able to do behind the line he had.
We gave up a FIRST ROUNDER for Trent Green, so it essentially cost us the same. I don't think anybody is suggesting going after a QB in the first, but the team needs to play out EVERY scenario including taking a QB.

KC kid

12-22-2007, 07:25 PM

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 08:00 PM

I am a QB coach and Brohm IS the man

Yeah, Brohm has a much better background and pedigree than Croyle has. Brohm was the #1 QB in his high school class (had offers from ND, UT, Nebraska, etc.) and was the C-USA freshman of the year without even starting a game. He has prototype size, a rocket for an arm, and has football in his blood (dad and brother were starting QBs for Louisville). Also, he is an all-around athlete, as he was drafted in MLB coming out of high school.

To be honest, sounds a lot like Peyton Manning......

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 08:09 PM

So if we give Brodie two HOF linemen and two more that are perennial Pro Bowlers, he'll be able to do okay? Good to know!The point, dipshit, is that any QB needs a good line. I don't care how good Woodson or Brohm is, they won't succeed behind a shitty line.

BigChiefFan

12-22-2007, 08:13 PM

I think Brohm , Woodson, and Brennan all have some things to offer the NFL. I can see all of them becoming good in the right system.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 08:18 PM

I think Brohm , Woodson, and Brennan all have some things to offer the NFL. I can see all of them becoming good in the right system.I agree. I just think QB is the least of our problems right now. This team sucks top to bottom, except for a few.

Brock

12-22-2007, 08:27 PM

Why is it silly? No one had a clue Aikman or Manning would be HOF QBs..

Of course somebody "had a clue", they drafted them number one overall. It's just a fact, the odds are against Croyle. I hope he turns out to be great, but he probably won't.

cardken

12-22-2007, 08:29 PM

Christ, he looks like a whole other player. Amazing what an actual offensive line can do for you.
Against COLLEGE DB's and Lb's that will never play in the NFL :banghead:

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 08:29 PM

The point, dipshit, is that any QB needs a good line. I don't care how good Woodson or Brohm is, they won't succeed behind a shitty line.

No, not every QB needs an Oline full of superstars to succeed. See Manning, Brady, etc.

Crappy QBs need awesome Olines because they aren't mobile and they take longer to see reads.

Croyle blows and is never going to be a franchise QB. Don't be such a damn homer.

cardken

12-22-2007, 08:30 PM

Tribal Warfare

12-22-2007, 08:43 PM

Again, I like Brodie, but wake up. People keep making the comparison to Manning and Aikman, and it's pretty much the silliest comparison one could make. In all likelihood, he won't be the franchise QB we all want him to be.

Okay, here's one Brett Favre. The guy at one point led the league with interceptions, does he suck now? No, he has a Superbowl ring, and breaking passing records this season. Point is Brodie has the attributes to be a great QB, and needs to develop. He reads well, has poise, and will be a great field general when the time calls for it.

OnTheWarpath15

12-22-2007, 08:45 PM

No, not every QB needs an Oline full of superstars to succeed. See Manning, Brady, etc.

Crappy QBs need awesome Olines because they aren't mobile and they take longer to see reads.

Croyle blows and is never going to be a franchise QB. Don't be such a damn homer.

Huh?

4 of Manning and Brady's offensive linemen made the Pro bowl this year.

To say that those two aren't operating behind excellent offensive lines is ridiculous.

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 08:48 PM

Huh?

4 of Manning and Brady's offensive linemen made the Pro bowl this year.

To say that those two aren't operating behind excellent offensive lines is ridiculous.

They make the PB because they have a stud QB putting up ridiculous stats. None of their guys were superstar 1st round picks.

It's a chicken or the egg concept. What came first, the stud QB or the stud Oline?

OnTheWarpath15

12-22-2007, 08:54 PM

They make the PB because they have a stud QB putting up ridiculous stats. None of their guys were superstar 1st round picks.

It's a chicken or the egg concept. What came first, the stud QB or the stud Oline?

I guess the RB's get all the glory for the rushing stats those two teams put up too? I guess Addai and Maroney just make those crappy lines look good.....

Both teams have phenomenal offensive lines.

And they'd be great even with Jared Lorenzen at QB.

Brock

12-22-2007, 08:57 PM

And they'd be great even with Jared Lorenzen at QB.

Unlikely. I would think Chiefs fans in particular would understand how important the QB position is, seeing as how they haven't really had a great one since Len Dawson. All the great offensive linemen they've had in recent years haven't mattered.

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 09:00 PM

I guess the RB's get all the glory for the rushing stats those two teams put up too? I guess Addai and Maroney just make those crappy lines look good.....

Both teams have phenomenal offensive lines.

And they'd be great even with Jared Lorenzen at QB.

You're right dude, Croyle is a gamebreaker, I'm sure every team will be shakin in their boots if we build around the mighty Brodie Croyle.

Dare to be great bud.

L.A. Chieffan

12-22-2007, 09:02 PM

You're right dude, Croyle is a gamebreaker, I'm sure every team will be shakin in their boots if we build around the mighty Brodie Croyle.

Dare to be great bud.

What's so great about Brohm? I haven't been impressed

OnTheWarpath15

12-22-2007, 09:04 PM

Unlikely. I would think Chiefs fans in particular would understand how important the QB position is, seeing as how they haven't really had a great one since Len Dawson. All the great offensive linemen they've had in recent years haven't mattered.

I was being sarcastic.

The QB position IS important.

You can have a great OL, but if you put a shitty QB behind it, you're gonna get shitty results.

Put any QB behind a bad OL, and you're likely to get shitty results.

For these retards to say that Croyle is a bust after 4 games behind one of the worst offensive lines in franchise history is beyond stupid.

Fix the OL, and give the kid a legitimate and fair shot. If he fails, move on.

But to say we have to move on NOW, with this half-ass QB draft class to pick from, is overreacting, IMO.

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 09:07 PM

What's so great about Brohm? I haven't been impressed

I'll just repost what I said on page 5 (by the way, I'm not completely for Brohm at this point, just think he and Woodson should be a stronger option for CP):

Yeah, Brohm has a much better background and pedigree than Croyle has. Brohm was the #1 QB in his high school class (had offers from ND, UT, Nebraska, etc.) and was the C-USA freshman of the year without even starting a game. He has prototype size, a rocket for an arm, and has football in his blood (dad and brother were starting QBs for Louisville). Also, he is an all-around athlete, as he was drafted in MLB coming out of high school.

To be honest, sounds a lot like Peyton Manning......

OnTheWarpath15

12-22-2007, 09:09 PM

You're right dude, Croyle is a gamebreaker, I'm sure every team will be shakin in their boots if we build around the mighty Brodie Croyle.

Dare to be great bud.

I didn't say that.

We don't know if he's a "gamebreaker" or not, because he's only started four ****ing games behind an atrocious offensive line.

Let's spend a Top 5 pick on an average QB, pay him a shit-ton of money, then when he fails behind this OL, we're ****ed because we're married to him because of his contract.

Meanwhile, the holes we have at EVERY OTHER position on the field other than RB aren't getting filled with an elite player like an Ellis, Dorsey, Chris Long, etc. Even reaching for Jake Long or Clady would make more sense than investing in a less-than-franchise QB like Brohm.

Nothing like setting the franchise back 5 more years.

Brock

12-22-2007, 09:13 PM

Meanwhile, the holes we have at EVERY OTHER position on the field other than RB aren't getting filled with an elite player like an Ellis, Dorsey, Chris Long, etc. Even reaching for Jake Long or Clady would make more sense than investing in a less-than-franchise QB like Brohm.

Nothing like setting the franchise back 5 more years.

I'm all for drafting the best player the team can get. If it's a QB, great. If not, that's great too.

OnTheWarpath15

12-22-2007, 09:14 PM

I'll just repost what I said on page 5 (by the way, I'm not completely for Brohm at this point, just think he and Woodson should be a stronger option for CP):

Yeah, Brohm has a much better background and pedigree than Croyle has. Brohm was the #1 QB in his high school class (had offers from ND, UT, Nebraska, etc.) and was the C-USA freshman of the year without even starting a game. He has prototype size, a rocket for an arm, and has football in his blood (dad and brother were starting QBs for Louisville). Also, he is an all-around athlete, as he was drafted in MLB coming out of high school.

To be honest, sounds a lot like Peyton Manning......

If only Peyton Manning could have played in C-USA.......

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 09:27 PM

Croyle blows and is never going to be a franchise QB. Don't be such a damn homer.Your and idiot

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 09:32 PM

You're right dude, Croyle is a gamebreaker, I'm sure every team will be shakin in their boots if we build around the mighty Brodie Croyle.

Dare to be great bud.WTF? NO ONE is saying, at least not me, that Brodie is a Star. I think he deserves a full season with an improved line.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 09:34 PM

Your and idiot

He's no more wrong than the people around here who act like Croyle is the second coming...

I think some people are enamored because the Chiefs actually started a young QB....Croyle still to this day has huge question marks, more than any of the QB's projected in the high end of the first round.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 09:34 PM

I'm all for drafting the best player the team can get. If it's a QB, great. If not, that's great too.I agree, but the best player in the top 10 in this draft will not be a QB.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 09:35 PM

Also Croyle doesn't 'deserve" anything, if the Chiefs draft a QB first, that's just how it goes. There's far worse things than having 2 QB's.

There are 2 top 10 projected QB's...3 top 15...and they could all move up higher...so there's no for sure about a QB not being the best player.

Brock

12-22-2007, 09:37 PM

I agree, but the best player in the top 10 in this draft will not be a QB.

Much, much too early to say.

L.A. Chieffan

12-22-2007, 09:39 PM

Mecca

12-22-2007, 09:40 PM

OnTheWarpath15

12-22-2007, 09:41 PM

He's no more wrong than the people around here who act like Croyle is the second coming...

I think some people are enamored because the Chiefs actually started a young QB....Croyle still to this day has huge question marks, more than any of the QB's projected in the high end of the first round.

Of course there are still questions that need to be answered about Croyle. He's started 4 games.

But to say that the incoming class has fewer questions when they've NEVER played a down of NFL football, is absurd, especially when only 1 of the 4 in question plays against top competition every week in the SEC.

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 09:41 PM

If only Peyton Manning could have played in C-USA.......

I don't care if he plays in f'n D3, the kid has the size, arm, bloodlines, and stats to be a franchise QB. Will he? I have no idea. But knocking him because of his conference is silly, IMO.

And yes, I can understand wanting to give Croyle more time, but how many chances does a franchise have to draft a stud QB?

Mecca

12-22-2007, 09:44 PM

Of course there are still questions that need to be answered about Croyle. He's started 4 games.

But to say that the incoming class has fewer questions when they've NEVER played a down of NFL football, is absurd, especially when only 1 of the 4 in question plays against top competition every week in the SEC.

Like I said before, Croyle still shouldn't be a reason for not making a pick if you sit in a spot with a QB being the best player on the board. If you feel the guy sitting there is a franchise type QB, you don't let Brodie Croyle keep you from making that pick, that would be really stupid in my view.

Tribal Warfare

12-22-2007, 09:45 PM

I just think this "OMG we can't take a QB Brodie is the guy!" stance is as comical as people demanding an OT first.

As a former QB, I can say Croyle has the stuff to make it happen.

L.A. Chieffan

12-22-2007, 09:46 PM

Brock

12-22-2007, 09:46 PM

As a former QB, I can say Croyle has the stuff to make it happen.

LOL, well in that case, I'm sold.

Tribal Warfare

12-22-2007, 09:47 PM

LOL, well in that case, I'm sold.

Good

OnTheWarpath15

12-22-2007, 09:47 PM

I just think this "OMG we can't take a QB Brodie is the guy!" stance is as comical as people demanding an OT first.

Brodie Croyle so far has not shown any reason to be a reason for not making a pick.

To clarify, I'm not saying we shouldn't take a QB because of Brodie.

I'm saying we shouldn't take a QB because none of them are Top 5 value, IMO.

Just because they are the best of THIS class doesn't make them good. It makes them the best compared to the rest of the class.

I'm not a big fan of giving a QB an LJ-like contract as a Top 5 pick when we have holes everywhere and we haven't given the last QB we drafted a fair shake to see what he's capable of.

The mood will change around here when we're married to an average QB for 5 years because of his contract, like the Niners are with Alex Smith, the Texans were with David Carr, the Browns and Tim Couch, etc.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 09:49 PM

If it's between Long or Brohm, I'm taking Long

I wouldn't agree with you...just me though I guess.

Croyle to me is a rail thin injury prone guy who has a strong arm. There have been plenty of guys with rocket arms that weren't any good. He's also a 3rd round pick, there's nothing there in contract that says you are committed to him. If you draft another Qb, hey you got a real competition, and if they're both good someone will come calling.

Like I said there's far worse things than having 2 QB's.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 09:50 PM

QBs drafted in the 1st round are FAR more likely to be total busts.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 09:51 PM

To clarify, I'm not saying we shouldn't take a QB because of Brodie.

I'm saying we shouldn't take a QB because none of them are Top 5 value, IMO.

Just because they are the best of THIS class doesn't make them good. It makes them the best compared to the rest of the class.

I'm not a big fan of giving a QB an LJ-like contract as a Top 5 pick when we have holes everywhere and we haven't given the last QB we drafted a fair shake to see what he's capable of.

The mood will change around here when we're married to an average QB for 5 years because of his contract, like the Niners are with Alex Smith, the Texans were with David Carr, the Browns and Tim Couch, etc.

I guarantee you that Ryan and Brohm have more pure physical tools than those guys do...Woodson is a bit more of a project. Ryan and Brohm would great out as top 10 picks every year.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 09:51 PM

QBs drafted in the 1st round are FAR more likely to be total busts.

Um you can say that for pretty much any position, QB is just more high profile. There's a reason why so many of them get picked in the 1st round...

There have been a couple of exceptions that people like to point to but high round QB's usually have more success than the low round QB's.

OnTheWarpath15

12-22-2007, 09:52 PM

Like I said before, Croyle still shouldn't be a reason for not making a pick if you sit in a spot with a QB being the best player on the board. If you feel the guy sitting there is a franchise type QB, you don't let Brodie Croyle keep you from making that pick, that would be really stupid in my view.

Exactly.

IF YOU FEEL that there's a franchise QB there, absolutely take him.

I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea that any of these 4 are the next Manning, Palmer or Aikman.

I'm betting they're more like the next Couch, Carr or Druckenmiller.

Not ONE of them stands head and shoulders above the rest, and not ONE of them has stood out as a legitimate R1 pick until THIS year.

FAX

12-22-2007, 09:53 PM

L.A. Chieffan

12-22-2007, 09:53 PM

I wouldn't agree with you...just me though I guess.

Croyle to me is a rail thin injury prone guy who has a strong arm. There have been plenty of guys with rocket arms that weren't any good. He's also a 3rd round pick, there's nothing there in contract that says you are committed to him. If you draft another Qb, hey you got a real competition, and if they're both good someone will come calling.

Like I said there's far worse things than having 2 QB's.

I'm not against having two QB's at all. I just think Long is a stud, not to mention Baker. I'm not quite sold on Clady yet. Personally I like Ryan better than Brohm

Mecca

12-22-2007, 09:54 PM

Exactly.

IF YOU FEEL that there's a franchise QB there, absolutely take him.

I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea that any of these 4 are the next Manning, Palmer or Aikman.

I'm betting they're more like the next Couch, Carr or Druckenmiller.

Not ONE of them stands head and shoulders above the rest, and not ONE of them has stood out as a legitimate R1 pick until THIS year.

Um Brohm or Ryan if they had declared would have been the 2nd QB off the board last year...

Most people were shocked Brohm didn't come out and he'll go pretty much in the same spot this year he would have last year.

Those guys are much better than you are giving them credit for. Brohm and Ryan have been highly thought of for a couple of years now, they may have been under your radar however.

OnTheWarpath15

12-22-2007, 09:56 PM

I don't care if he plays in f'n D3, the kid has the size, arm, bloodlines, and stats to be a franchise QB. Will he? I have no idea. But knocking him because of his conference is silly, IMO.

And yes, I can understand wanting to give Croyle more time, but how many chances does a franchise have to draft a stud QB?

Name the last successful NFL QB not named Roethlisberger that didn't play in a power conference.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 09:58 PM

Name the last successful NFL QB not named Roethlisberger that didn't play in a power conference.

Steve McNair?

I envision that in 3 years we're gonna be sitting here 6-10 with some still going "Brodie needs more time if he just had these guys around him!"

OnTheWarpath15

12-22-2007, 09:59 PM

Um Brohm or Ryan if they had declared would have been the 2nd QB off the board last year...

Most people were shocked Brohm didn't come out and he'll go pretty much in the same spot this year he would have last year.

Those guys are much better than you are giving them credit for. Brohm and Ryan have been highly thought of for a couple of years now, they may have been under your radar however.

Last years draft class? The one devoid of talent after Russell and Quinn?

They haven't been "under my radar" at all. I just don't think they are worthy of a Top 5 pick, and don't understand why people are spellbound by them like they are watching the next Peyton Manning or Carson Palmer.

OnTheWarpath15

12-22-2007, 10:00 PM

Steve McNair?

I envision that in 3 years we're gonna be sitting here 6-10 with some still going "Brodie needs more time if he just had these guys around him!"

Yeah, and he was drafted in what year? 1995?

I don't think that's a coincidence.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 10:01 PM

Last years draft class? The one devoid of talent after Russell and Quinn?

They haven't been "under my radar" at all. I just don't think they are worthy of a Top 5 pick, and don't understand why people are spellbound by them like they are watching the next Peyton Manning or Carson Palmer.

At least they are thought of that way now after playing games...then after throwing a ball 70 yards off their knee like Kyle Boller in some workouts.

I think those guys would be pretty well thought of in any draft....Of course some people around here think Chase Daniel is a great NFL prospect and would take him over Matt Ryan or something absurd like that.

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 10:01 PM

Name the last successful NFL QB not named Roethlisberger that didn't play in a power conference.

Name the last great QB named Brodie that was frail as shit.

Brock

12-22-2007, 10:02 PM

Name the last successful NFL QB not named Roethlisberger that didn't play in a power conference.

Not that it matters, but Bret Favre.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 10:03 PM

Brodie Croyle physically, and the way he plays reminds me of JP Losman and Rob Johnson.

I think he's a guy with physical talent that will never put it all together and will always be plagued by injuries.

DaneMcCloud

12-22-2007, 10:03 PM

LOL, so Chase Daniel is listed at 6'0" and is really 5'9", but Drew Brees (6'0"), Jeff Garcia (6'1"), Troy Smith (5'11") and Rex Grossman (6'1") are all exactly their listed height, right? Heh.

Daniel is really 5'10", just like the rest of the guys I listed. Everyone inflates their height by a couple inches.

Those "other guys" have been measured at the Combines and are on record.

Daniels hasn't.

We'll revisit this in 2009.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 10:04 PM

Oh I got another one..Tony Romo, he isn't from some power conference.

OnTheWarpath15

12-22-2007, 10:05 PM

Not that it matters, but Bret Favre.

Now we're back to 1991.

2 out of probably 200+ QB's drafted since 1991.

Brock

12-22-2007, 10:06 PM

Now we're back to 1991.

2 out of probably 200+ QB's drafted since 1991.

Those odds aren't any worse than thinking a 3rd rd QB is going to be a franchise guy.

OnTheWarpath15

12-22-2007, 10:07 PM

Oh I got another one..Tony Romo, he isn't from some power conference.

OK, three out of 200+, though it's debatable since he's only played at this level for a season and a half.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 10:07 PM

Mecca

12-22-2007, 10:07 PM

So right now we've established that Romo, Roethlisberger and Favre weren't from power conferences and those are well 3 of the top QB's right now.

OnTheWarpath15

12-22-2007, 10:08 PM

Those odds aren't any worse than thinking a 3rd rd QB is going to be a franchise guy.

I can guarantee he won't be the franchise QB if you only give him 4 starts to prove himself......

Mecca

12-22-2007, 10:09 PM

Those odds aren't any worse than thinking a 3rd rd QB is going to be a franchise guy.

Exactly........

Guy's go back and look when the last successful QB was drafted in the 3rd round...it's been 20+ years...

At this point you could argue Trent Edwards is a better 3rd round QB pick than Brodie Croyle.

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 10:09 PM

Those "other guys" have been measured at the Combines and are on record.

Daniels hasn't.

We'll revisit this in 2009.

Dude, their listed height and weight isn't what they measured at the combine. It's just crap to put in the media guides.

Seriously, Daniel is short, but he's just as short as the others. I'm hardly pimping him for the NFL but he will get drafted at some point next year.

Brock

12-22-2007, 10:09 PM

I can guarantee he won't be the franchise QB if you only give him 4 starts to prove himself......

Who says he's only going to get 4 starts to prove himself? Even if the Chiefs drafted a first round QB this year, Croyle is probably still the starter next season. If he's any good at all, that is.

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 10:10 PM

So right now we've established that Romo, Roethlisberger and Favre weren't from power conferences and those are well 3 of the top QB's right now.

Culpepper was a stud before his knee injury.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 10:11 PM

Dude, their listed height and weight isn't what they measured at the combine. It's just crap to put in the media guides.

Seriously, Daniel is short, but he's just as short as the others. I'm hardly pimping him for the NFL but he will get drafted at some point next year.

Todd McShay the guy from scouts inc that's always on ESPN says Chase Daniel is 5'9.

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 10:12 PM

So right now we've established that Romo, Roethlisberger and Favre weren't from power conferences and those are well 3 of the top QB's right now.

Plus, it's not like Brohm wasn't good enough to go to a top program - he had offers from every school in the country but went to Louisville because of family connections.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 10:14 PM

Oh yea, Brohm was the #1 guy his year of recruiting. He could have gone to any school of his choice.

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 10:14 PM

Todd McShay the guy from scouts inc that's always on ESPN says Chase Daniel is 5'9.

Okay, well i've stood right next to him and he's prob 5'10" or 5'11". Either way, like I said he's short but he's not too short to get drafted.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 10:15 PM

Exactly........

Guy's go back and look when the last successful QB was drafted in the 3rd round...it's been 20+ years...

At this point you could argue Trent Edwards is a better 3rd round QB pick than Brodie Croyle.David Garrard is having a great season, he's 4th rounder. Derek Anderson, 6th rounder. Seems some people would like to deal for Derek. What did Anderson do before this season?

DaneMcCloud

12-22-2007, 10:16 PM

Dude, their listed height and weight isn't what they measured at the combine. It's just crap to put in the media guides.

Seriously, Daniel is short, but he's just as short as the others. I'm hardly pimping him for the NFL but he will get drafted at some point next year.

You're out of your mind if you think that Drew Brees is 5'9. Or Rex Grossman. Give me a break.

Daniel may play someday in the NFL but it won't be as a QB.

He is too short.

RustShack

12-22-2007, 10:16 PM

Croyle is taller than that, but everyone says hes too short to be an NFL QB. Which I don't buy that.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 10:16 PM

Okay, well i've stood right next to him and he's prob 5'10" or 5'11". Either way, like I said he's short but he's not too short to get drafted.

Ehhh, Chris Leak didn't get drafted because he's 5'10...

If you can give me a QB that plays that's under 6' I'd be surprised....I think Chase Daniel ends up like Stefan Lefors who was a damn good college player and got drafted but was 5'10...

He plays in Canada now.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 10:17 PM

Culpepper was a stud before his knee injury.If by "knee injury" you mean "had Moss to throw to" then I agree...

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 10:18 PM

Ehhh, Chris Leak didn't get drafted because he's 5'10...

If you can give me a QB that plays that's under 6' I'd be surprised....I think Chase Daniel ends up like Stefan Lefors who was a damn good college player and got drafted but was 5'10...

He plays in Canada now.

Troy Smith is 5'10" but he's a backup like Daniel will be.

BigChiefFan

12-22-2007, 10:18 PM

Chase Daniel has some skills, but I don't see it translating to the next level.

Brock

12-22-2007, 10:18 PM

David Garrard is having a great season, he's 4th rounder. Derek Anderson, 6th rounder. Seems some people would like to deal for Derek. What did Anderson do before this season?

Garrard doesn't count, he played in C-USA

Mecca

12-22-2007, 10:18 PM

David Garrard is having a great season, he's 4th rounder. Derek Anderson, 6th rounder. Seems some people would like to deal for Derek. What did Anderson do before this season?

And those are 1 in a million guys, maybe even more. Anderson isn't even with the team that drafted him. I watched Derek Anderson when he was in college being in the Pac and all and he wasn't even a good college QB. I honestly have no idea what happened there.

You have better odds getting a QB in the first, can they come out of other rounds, sure. The sad part is late rounds have produced better QB's than the 3rd round in the past couple of decades.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 10:19 PM

If by "knee injury" you mean "had Moss to throw to" then I agree...

You do realize that Culpeppers best year came in the year where Moss missed half the season right?

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 10:19 PM

Troy Smith is 5'10" but he's a backup like Daniel will be.He's actually starting tomorrow...

Rasputin

12-22-2007, 10:24 PM

It's remarkable that some guys are able to evaluate a quarterback after 4 or 5 starts behind an oline as bad as this, on a penalty prone team, and with this caliber of coaching. Danged impressive.

FAX

Simply amazing, I wish I had that tallent to evaluate a QB after four starts on a pathetic team.

Put any QB on this team and just see how they do. Brady Quinn would have been a bust too.

Dangit, we go 20+ years with out having our own home grown QB from the draft to start a game and he is a bust after four starts. It's not like we have gone through a bunch of QBs from the draft and we just missfired on the right QB. NO we haven't even tried. We decide to wait untill this O-line is in the FUBAR stage and then develop a QB and he is expected to just win nomatter what. Good Coaches put their players in position for success. Brodie was never put in position for success. Heck his first start was against the Colts defending world champs and Brodie held his own in that game.

Why can't we expect Brodie to make rooky mistakes and let him learn and grow from them after this year? Shouldn't he be making mistakes so he can learn from them? All young QBs make mistakes that's what they do. Maybe a few exeptions like Ben Rothleshamberger and Tom Brady, but their Coaches put them in position for success. Any ways I'm just going to root for Brodie and hope for the best. I still think that once he starts clicking with D Bowe watch out it's going to be one force to recon with. If it's a year or two away then fine.
I want Brodie to get a fair chance for success with a strong O-line and some WRs to get open and catch the balls.

Furthermore, I'm not so much against drafting a QB for compitition and would help with dept. I just want our QB to beable to succeed on a good team. Right now this is a bad team nomatter who is QB.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 10:26 PM

You do realize that Culpeppers best year came in the year where Moss missed half the season right?He missed 3 games. He only caught 49 balls, but he had 13 TDs.

RustShack

12-22-2007, 10:28 PM

You can't make any mistakes your first year, the thought of that is insane. Every great QB ever made some mistakes thier first year, but we want our QB to be better than that.

Brock

12-22-2007, 10:32 PM

You can't make any mistakes your first year, the thought of that is insane. Every great QB ever made some mistakes thier first year, but we want our QB to be better than that.

If that's what you think people are saying, I don't know where you're reading it. I think Croyle is putting up numbers comparable to Jay Cutler's first 5 games. If it continues and gets better the rest of this season, like we all hope it does, that's fantastic.

RustShack

12-22-2007, 10:33 PM

I think Croyle is doing a lot better than he should be. Seriously, I don't think people are looking at the rest of the offense, you need more than a great QB to be good on offense.

blueballs

12-22-2007, 10:35 PM

What in the name of the inventor of the tv remote
is going on here

Sully

12-22-2007, 10:56 PM

A few thoughts after reading through this...

A) I like what Croyle has to offer, but I'm firmly in the "draft the best player available" camp. If that means it's a QB, you grab the guy. The problem is, I'm only impressed with about 1.5 of the top QBs as of now (leaving room to change my opinion). I like Ryan's skills, and I like what Woodson has done, though he's got one of the weirdest windups I've ever seen, and I think that could be a problem.

B) Chase Daniel is no taller than 5'10". I think teams make far too much out of height in QBs, linemen in the NFL are only marginally taller than linemen in Division I for the most part. That said, he may be a backup somewhere, but he is a bit of a system guy. he's run the spread since Pop Warner. I love his guts and his leadership...the guy is just plain nails...but I don't think he gets a fair shot at the next level.

C) Please stop bringing up trading LJ. It can't happen. It won't happen. He's our guy for at least the next 4 years. We are shackled to him. We just gotta hope for the best.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 11:03 PM

If that's what you think people are saying, I don't know where you're reading it. I think Croyle is putting up numbers comparable to Jay Cutler's first 5 games. If it continues and gets better the rest of this season, like we all hope it does, that's fantastic.eazyb81 thinks Brodie sucks...

Mecca

12-22-2007, 11:06 PM

If I ever seen him try to throw to Kris Wilson while Champ Bailey is covering him again, or a similar matchup like that...I'll say he sucks.

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 11:09 PM

eazyb81 thinks Brodie sucks...

Maybe not sucks, but I certainly don't think he's a franchise QB.

I'd love to hear what you guys thought about Matt Blundin and Pat Barnes in their 1st or 2nd year.

GarySpFc

12-22-2007, 11:10 PM

I don't care if he plays in f'n D3, the kid has the size, arm, bloodlines, and stats to be a franchise QB. Will he? I have no idea. But knocking him because of his conference is silly, IMO.

And yes, I can understand wanting to give Croyle more time, but how many chances does a franchise have to draft a stud QB?

I'm amazed at those who cannot see the quarterback position is not the problem. They really don't grasp the team concept.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 11:11 PM

I'm amazed at those who cannot see the quarterback position is not the problem. They really don't grasp the team concept.

I'm amazed that people appoint Brodie Croyle the man after 4 games of really not doing anything.

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 11:12 PM

I'm amazed at those who cannot see the quarterback position is not the problem. They really don't grasp the team concept.

Glad you're here to drop your profound knowledge.

L.A. Chieffan

12-22-2007, 11:14 PM

Maybe not sucks, but I certainly don't think he's a franchise QB.

I'd love to hear what you guys thought about Matt Blundin and Pat Barnes in their 1st or 2nd year.

Whatever happened with Barnes and the Chiefs? I thought he was pretty good at Cal and remember we drafted him and then nothing after that

Sully

12-22-2007, 11:15 PM

Whatever happened with Barnes and the Chiefs? I thought he was pretty good at Cal and remember we drafted him and then nothing after that
He ended up with the Raiders for a couple of seasons... then...???

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 11:18 PM

I'd love to hear what you guys thought about Matt Blundin and Pat Barnes in their 1st or 2nd year.LMAO Matt threw all of 8 passes for the Chiefs. WTF?

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 11:21 PM

LMAO Matt threw all of 8 passes for the Chiefs. WTF?

Sigh.....if we only give him more chances!!! He could have been a star just like Brodie.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 11:22 PM

If I ever seen him try to throw to Kris Wilson while Champ Bailey is covering him again, or a similar matchup like that...I'll say he sucks.That wasn't a bad throw, just a bad decision. Hopefully, he learns from that. Had Kris not been such a lousy reciever, he'd have made a play on the ball and bailed out his QB. Instead, he just watched Bailey pick it...

DaneMcCloud

12-22-2007, 11:22 PM

I'm amazed that people appoint Brodie Croyle the man after 4 games of really not doing anything.

I can't believe that you don't even give the guy a little bit of slack considering the offensive line is old, worn-out and horrific plus the lack of a competent wide receiving corp (minus D-Bowe).

He's not in the same position as Trent Edwards, who you've claimed in this thread is further along. Edwards has two first round receivers, a first round RB and an Pro Bowl tackle in Jason Peters.

The offensive talent level in Buffalo is quite a bit higher in Buffalo.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 11:23 PM

Sigh.....if we only give him more chances!!! He could have been a star just like Brodie.Your and idiot if you are gonna compare Brodie to Blundin. LMAO

Rasputin

12-22-2007, 11:23 PM

Maybe not sucks, but I certainly don't think he's a franchise QB.

I'd love to hear what you guys thought about Matt Blundin and Pat Barnes in their 1st or 2nd year.

Wow, Matt Blundin played in two games and threw the ball 8 times & Pat Barnes didn't even played.

We have gone two decades with out even trying to develpop a QB from the draft. We finally do and the O-line is a mess and we are to expect him just to be the guy to win us games nomatter how bad the O-line is.

It's not like the Chiefs have gone through 5 or more QBs in the draft the last 20 years, no they went through at least 8 thirty+ year old QBs.

Their is really no young QB that we can compare Brodie too. Blackledge was the wrong QB to begin with he came from a run oriented team not a true passer QB,. When we could have gotten Dan Marino or Jim Kelly that year.

So now we start a young QB for the first time in decades and people think he was suppose to just win games for us nomatter what. I've said this before, Brodie is starting his career on a bad football team. Give him a chance with an improved O-line and some weapons for him to be successfull and he will be.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 11:23 PM

He fired one right to Michael Griffin this past week....

Mecca

12-22-2007, 11:24 PM

Wow, Matt Blundin played in two games and threw the ball 8 times & Pat Barnes didn't even played.

We have gone two decades with out even trying to develpop a QB from the draft. We finally do and the O-line is a mess and we are to expect him just to be the guy to win us games nomatter how bad the O-line is.

It's not like the Chiefs have gone through 5 or more QBs in the draft the last 20 years, no they went through at least 8 thirty+ year old QBs.

Their is really no young QB that we can compare Brodie too. Blackledge was the wrong QB to begin with he came from a run oriented team not a true passer QB,. When we could have gotten Dan Marino or Jim Kelly that year.

So now we start a young QB for the first time in decades and people think he was suppose to just win games for us nomatter what. I've said this before, Brodie is starting his career on a bad football team. Give him a chance with an improved O-line and some weapons for him to be successfull and he will be.

Uh that isn't really my argument. My argument is when you are drafting if the best player on the board at your pick is a QB. A possible elite level prospect QB, you don't not draft him because of Brodie Croyle.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 11:26 PM

I'm amazed that people appoint Brodie Croyle the man after 4 games of really not doing anything.You have got to be ****ing kidding me. 4 games behind this line. I am amazed anyone could be this dumb to make such an assinine statement...
:shake:

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 11:26 PM

Your and idiot if you are gonna compare Brodie to Blundin. LMAO

A. The whole "your and idiot" joke is old as hell

B. How so? Both were mid-tier QBs that KC picked to groom as the new young QB. Only difference is Brodie has been given more of an opportunity to show what he can do, and frankly he hasn't shown much.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 11:27 PM

I'm amazed at those who cannot see the quarterback position is not the problem. They really don't grasp the team concept.
:rolleyes:

Mecca

12-22-2007, 11:27 PM

You have got to be ****ing kidding me. 4 games behind this line. I am amazed anyone could be this dumb to make such an assinine statement...
:shake:

So you are ready to say Brodie Croyle is this franchise level QB?

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 11:28 PM

You have got to be ****ing kidding me. 4 games behind this line. I am amazed anyone could be this dumb to make such an assinine statement...
:shake:

Who gives a f#ck if he's had 4 or 40? If he was good last year he would have played. If he was good earlier this year he would have played. If a guy can play, it's obvious early on, especially considering we are nearing the end of his 2nd year. He hasn't shown a damn thing.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 11:31 PM

I don't have a problem with Croyle, I just think some are latching onto him way to hard believing he's something more than he actually is.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 11:31 PM

and frankly he hasn't shown much. 4 NFL starts. What is he supposed to do?

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 11:32 PM

So you are ready to say Brodie Croyle is this franchise level QB?I never said that. He needs MORE THAN 4 GAMES.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 11:32 PM

So you'd pass on Matt Ryan because Brodie Croyle needs more time?

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 11:34 PM

Who gives a f#ck if he's had 4 or 40? If he was good last year he would have played. If he was good earlier this year he would have played. If a guy can play, it's obvious early on, especially considering we are nearing the end of his 2nd year. He hasn't shown a damn thing.WTF?
:spock:

Rasputin

12-22-2007, 11:34 PM

The reason I like Brodie is cus he has taken some hits & gets right back up. He does not lay down like Huard did. Brodie has heart and a winning attitude. The kid wants to win he is working hard for it and it will come.

Brodie may not have taken a sack against the Titans, but he took a few sollid hits after the play and got right back up and dusted himself off. Brodie is tough, he can make the plays with his feet and his arm. All he needs is some more experience and an O-line and some offensive weapons but what QB doesn't?

Mecca

12-22-2007, 11:36 PM

Um, there are guys with stronger arms, without the injury history, and had nice feet....that were never good. There's gotta be something there, right now I haven't seen it.

I also don't think Croyle could ever play 16 games and that to me is a huge strike as a starting QB.

KCFalcon59

12-22-2007, 11:38 PM

Ryan/Brohm=Akili Smith

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 11:38 PM

Ryan/Brohm=Akili SmithLMAO OUCH!

Mecca

12-22-2007, 11:39 PM

Ryan/Brohm=Akili Smith

Because guys who are 3 year starters, compare to a guy who played 1 year......

You should probably consider looking some things up before you make some dumb comparison.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 11:39 PM

So you'd pass on Matt Ryan because Brodie Croyle needs more time?How does drafting Ryan help the OL or interior DL?

Mecca

12-22-2007, 11:41 PM

There are other rounds of the draft.....

They should be taking the best player whoever it is, regardless of position. I don't wanna be sitting here in 3 years going "**** we passed on that QB"

It's becoming more and more apparent in this league you don't win unless you have one of the very best QB's.

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 11:42 PM

Ryan/Brohm=Akili Smith

Fun game!

Croyle = Charlie Frye/Kyle Orton

eazyb81

12-22-2007, 11:43 PM

RustShack

12-22-2007, 11:45 PM

Brock

12-22-2007, 11:47 PM

How does drafting Ryan help the OL or interior DL?

Not really saying they shouldn't draft OL or DL. Or LB or CB or virtually any other position either.

DaneMcCloud

12-22-2007, 11:48 PM

I don't have a problem with Croyle, I just think some are latching onto him way to hard believing he's something more than he actually is.

I'll say it again:

I can't believe that you don't even give the guy a little bit of slack considering the offensive line is old, worn-out and horrific plus the lack of a competent wide receiving corp (minus D-Bowe).

He's not in the same position as Trent Edwards, who you've claimed in this thread is further along. Edwards has two first round receivers, a first round RB and an Pro Bowl tackle in Jason Peters.

The offensive talent level in Buffalo is quite a bit higher in Buffalo.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 11:49 PM

Id pass on a QB for now, build the rest of the team first. Unfortianatly you don't need a great QB on Herms team, you just need a running game and a defense :( PLEASE BRING US A GOOD OC AND LET HIM OPEN UP THE OFFENSE!!!

It's hard to get a QB with that approach because if you have the rest of the team in place, you likely aren't shitty enough to pick high enough to get the QB.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 11:50 PM

I'll say it again:

I can't believe that you don't even give the guy a little bit of slack considering the offensive line is old, worn-out and horrific plus the lack of a competent wide receiving corp (minus D-Bowe).

He's not in the same position as Trent Edwards, who you've claimed in this thread is further along. Edwards has two first round receivers, a first round RB and an Pro Bowl tackle in Jason Peters.

The offensive talent level in Buffalo is quite a bit higher in Buffalo.

Isn't Buffalo ranked like 28th in offense or something like that...

Uh 2 first round WR's...um how you figure? The only WR weapon they have is Lee Evans. They have no TE, and about 15 guys on IR...that team really has no business having that record but somehow they do.

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 11:51 PM

BigMeatballDave

12-22-2007, 11:52 PM

It's hard to get a QB with that approach because if you have the rest of the team in place, you likely aren't shitty enough to pick high enough to get the QB.Favre was 2nd rounder, Brady was 6th. It happens...

Mecca

12-22-2007, 11:53 PM

Try not to confuse him with facts...

Um I don't think he's looked at Buffalo's roster lately....

Hey if you wanna play this good players come from later rounds, Jason Peters was undrafted.

They have 2 good Olineman, 1 good WR no TE, a rookie RB that is pretty good and a rookie QB...and he's trumping up their talent really?

DaneMcCloud

12-22-2007, 11:54 PM

Isn't Buffalo ranked like 28th in offense or something like that...

Uh 2 first round WR's...um how you figure? The only WR weapon they have is Lee Evans. They have no TE, and about 15 guys on IR...that team really has no business having that record but somehow they do.

YOU said that Trent Edwards was further along, not me.

Two first round receivers? Josh Reed and Lee Evans. Plus Marshawn Lynch.

Look Dude, you can't have it both ways. You can't say that Trent Edwards might be a better third round pick when he has more talent than Croyle in KC, then say Buffalo's ranked 28th.

Which is it?

Rasputin

12-22-2007, 11:56 PM

Favre was 2nd rounder, Brady was 6th. It happens...

Farve was a bust /Falcons

shaneo69

12-22-2007, 11:56 PM

None of this year's draft-eligible QB's are worth a top-10 pick.

Mecca

12-22-2007, 11:57 PM

RustShack

12-22-2007, 11:58 PM

I wish we had a HC, OC, and or a QB coach that is capable of developing a QB...

shaneo69

12-22-2007, 11:59 PM

Mecca

12-23-2007, 12:01 AM

Was Roscoe Parrish a first rounder?

Hell no......

He's a good returner that's about it.

The fact that we've come to the point of saying "Buffalo has more talent than than we do" is kinda sad......I think the teams are about equal. Trent Edwards has 1 guy who is a legit option.

BigMeatballDave

12-23-2007, 12:01 AM

Was Roscoe Parrish a first rounder?2nd, so was J. Reed. Remember, Mecca knows what players will suck at the moment of conception...

BigMeatballDave

12-23-2007, 12:02 AM

I wish we had a HC, OC, and or a QB coach that is capable of developing a QB...Thats a whole other thread...
:)

Mecca

12-23-2007, 12:02 AM

I'm sure you have a better idea...

BigMeatballDave

12-23-2007, 12:06 AM

None of this year's draft-eligible QB's are worth a top-10 pick.I said that earlier. I may be wrong. I just feel it would be a waste to draft a QB in the 1st when there are so many more glaring needs. I believe in drafting the best player available, but not in this case.

DaneMcCloud

12-23-2007, 12:07 AM

Josh Reed wasn't a first round pick....and he blows, that isn't some great option out there.

I don't think he has more talent....I think it's similar, neither team is good offensively at all. Edwards for being a rookie and playing like he's played is probably a little bit ahead in development.

My bad. Josh Reed went #36 overall.

Trent Edwards: 8 games 7 Starts, 126/213 5 TD's 5 INT's 1336 yards
9 sacks

Brodie Croyle: 7 games, 4 Starts, 98/169 5 TD's 5 INT's 986 yards
14 sacks

In half as many starts, Croyle's had nearly twice as many sacks.

How is that "further along"?